Best video I've found. Thank you. My aftermarket 60v pack failed in the wipers. Didnt know what to look for until your post. Of course I got mad and ripped the pack apart with my pillars but next time I will use some finesse and maybe fix it. Got a parts one anyway.
Hi from the UK. i repair Power Tool batteries for a living. I have to say that this video has got to be the most informative that i have seen on this subject and i really mean that. All the best kev
Hi, Thanks so much for your extremely kind comment. And congratulations on a really cool job. I really enjoy working on things like this and it's a cool hobby to me and it would be so awesome to eventually make it into a business or at least an early retirement transition. 30 years of clocking in and out for someone else is getting a little bit old. I think what you do is really amazing and so great to see someone out there doing that.
@@ThriftyToolShed And thank you also. But yes that is exactly where i was ( with the retirement thing ) and now i'm doing it, but it streches further than just the repair side i am also just about to launch my own batteries. For instance 7, 9 and 12Ah batts for maki*a plus others. But they will be genuine 7 9 12. Not lime the cheap knock offs that come nowhere close. Also of course you have e bike spinoffs etc. So yes someone with your obvious talent could easily do the same. One last thing ...in the new year i will be making my own series of video's and with your permission i would like to mention you in them and redraw your flexvolt diagrams with full credit to you. Let me know your thoughts. Kev
@@mouldykevHi there - congrats on making a business out of this! For your flexvolt knowledge-base I just posted a comment on this video about another flexvolt repair "failure mode" fyi. It involves a bad output on C2 terminal, present after successful balancing all the cells, thus upsetting the charger..
Wow I had always wondered how these packs are designed, you did a great job explaining how it works in this video. On the subject of low temp solder.. I had so much trouble trying to remove components for board repairs until I finally learned about the different low temp solders available. I ended up buying some of the “CHIPQUICK” component remover alloy. Its only for removing components because it’s too brittle when cool to be used as a solder, so you need to be sure to clean it off your iron tip and the board well. That stuff has really been a game changer for me though for removing smd components as well as big through-hole components like mosfets. I may have to look into some other kinds of “low melt” too, it might be nice to have one that can be used without cleaning it off so thoroughly after. Thanks for sharing, love your videos!
Thanks for your kind comment! Yes, the low temp solder is so helpful on removal and a very good point about cleaning the tip afterwards before soldering components back on. Thanks for sharing!
@@ThriftyToolShed Thanks for always being so good about reading and replying to comments! I’ve been watching your videos for a few years now since I was trying to troubleshoot an EGO battery. You even made a short follow up video to answer a question I had back then and I’ve been a fan ever since. Actually I think you may have even helped shape my appreciation for Southern accents and their associated charm to be honest lol. You’re a great teacher, fixer and creator. Keep up the great work, wish you and your channel all the best! Much Mahalos and Aloha! 🤙
I read that a possible failure mode is using it in 60v and having some cells discharge unevenly for whatever reason, which when removing the battery then shorts the pack back to the 20v configuration and instantly recharges the unevenly discharged cells at super high amperage causing damage.
I can absolutely see that being an issue. If left in a 60v tool for a extended time (and you know it will) all in series and of course as you mentioned pulling it out puts it back in 20V configuration and if cells are unbalanced it would be bad when they all go in parallel for sure. These packs are expensive and alot to go wrong and too time consuming to repair alot of the time.
Amazing video, appreciate the electronics focus which is rare in the tool video arena. I'm working on a like new mid-2023 9ah that after manually charging and balancing all the cells (all of them holding voltage just fine) , the C2 terminal is giving north of 8.5v which the charger no-likey. I think C4 is direct connect (via some small resistance) to cell 4+, bank 1, whereas C2 (as well as C1&C3, when in 20v mode) are synthesized by the logic board. I don't know if my situation indicates a board fault, or possibly a self-destruct mechanism like the old makita packs used to have. Have you come across this? Many thanks and glad I found/subscribed to your channel👍 EDIT: * UPDATE : Close inspection with a magnifying headset revealed a half mm discoloration on one of the 14 traces of the cell voltage connection ribbon on one side. Scraped down to bare copper either side, and failed continuity test. Jumping these two points corrected the C2 voltage level. I think the ID resistance measurement was also corrupted by this and I assume it will also correct back to ~600ohm once I solder a permanent wire repair jumper. I'm definitely not a fan of Dewalt moving from wires to this paper thin and delicate ribbon. I acquired the pack cheaply and dont know its history, but its mfg date is only few months ago and it looks nearly new but has some signs of use so wasn't factory DOA either...
Excellent find! I have seen 2 packs with similar issues and I was hoping to get a hold of a new (good working) pack to make sure this was really reading in error as I noticed a difference from regular 20V max, but I do not own a good working FlexVolt to say for sure. You have most likely found a very common issue with these! I wanted to learn more about them and I have had 3 broken ones now, but with the expense of them and my honest dislike of the overall design I never bought a brand new one to double check my readings on the bad packs. Thanks so much for sharing that information. It is very helpful.
Chahahc, you are absolutely correct, its a common failure mode for this battery ie 1 cell discharges unevenly and causes the other 4 in series (3 banks in series in 60V mode) to overcharge when in 20V mode. Very difficult to replace a single faulty cell then balance in 60V mode before balancing again in 20V mode. I have youtube video showing how to easily replace a single cell in a pack. Thrifty has shown the older model pre 2019 I think, the new mode has a flexible circuit connector instead of wires to each cell monitoring point. New model seems to have better cells but fails in other ways. Message me if you are interested.
ID pin shematic is not simple, resistor 604 Om not connected to ground, some addotional shematic there. Baterry not charge becose some ID signal problem. Sorry for my english)
Yes, it is not simply connected to ground it is indeed a more complex circuit with a transistor and it seems that it can enable or disable the tool as well as let the tool know which type of pack is inserted? I think I have mentioned this in some videos over the years. Obviously I have no schematic, just looking over the board. Thanks for your comment!
I believe you can’t use the C1,2,3,4 terminals to accurately measure cell voltages. I’ve repaired two by now and both of them could have changing cell voltage readings based on pressing the switch to go to 60v. I think the voltages that we’re there were for telling the charger the battery is good. That being said, I don’t think it should read 0v like it did with yours. Can’t wait till you get into that 12AH!
would it be possible to use tool batteries for portable ham radio use? they require 12 to 13.8v but no less than 9.5v discharged? any thoughts on repurposing these? thanks Craig kd9uqe
I would think so and depending on current draw you could build or buy a BMS board to cut out for voltage minimum of a 3S or 12V pack. Usual cut out for a 12V or 3S pack is around 8.8V or so. If that voltage is too low then a Low voltage cut off module might work? The pack in this video is too high of voltage of course, but I think you are asking if the cells could be utilized as a 3S arrangement for 12V power?
If you are trying to use tool batteries for powering lower voltage stuff you should look into step-down or “buck converters”. They can be found online really cheap and will allow you to set the output voltage as well as current to pretty much anything lower than the supply. There are different models that handle different amounts of current. Very handy little devices!
Thrifty tool shed do you know what battery cells could replace the EVE 18650 15P 1500mAh 20C 30A Li-ion Batterys. Its for the generic Milwaukee xc 18 volt battery 6 amp hour im asking because the eve 18650 15p 1500mah 20c 30a are harder to find
Sorry I have not had to search for these to say. I try to use 18650batterystore.com for alot of my cells and I know what you mean, a lot of cells are out of stock.
@@ThriftyToolShed thank you i looked at one of your past videos and i figured out how to look at each cells specs and decided to go with the LG 18650hb 2 1500 mah
Best video I've found. Thank you. My aftermarket 60v pack failed in the wipers. Didnt know what to look for until your post. Of course I got mad and ripped the pack apart with my pillars but next time I will use some finesse and maybe fix it. Got a parts one anyway.
Hi from the UK. i repair Power Tool batteries for a living.
I have to say that this video has got to be the most informative that i have seen on this subject and i really mean that. All the best kev
Hi,
Thanks so much for your extremely kind comment. And congratulations on a really cool job. I really enjoy working on things like this and it's a cool hobby to me and it would be so awesome to eventually make it into a business or at least an early retirement transition. 30 years of clocking in and out for someone else is getting a little bit old. I think what you do is really amazing and so great to see someone out there doing that.
@@ThriftyToolShed And thank you also.
But yes that is exactly where i was ( with the retirement thing ) and now i'm doing it, but it streches further than just the repair side i am also just about to launch my own batteries. For instance 7, 9 and 12Ah batts for maki*a plus others. But they will be genuine 7 9 12. Not lime the cheap knock offs that come nowhere close. Also of course you have e bike spinoffs etc.
So yes someone with your obvious talent could easily do the same.
One last thing ...in the new year i will be making my own series of video's and with your permission i would like to mention you in them and redraw your flexvolt diagrams with full credit to you.
Let me know your thoughts. Kev
@mouldykev
That sounds fantastic and absolutely on the mention and thanks for doing it. I would like a link to that when you upload it also.
@@ThriftyToolShed will do
@@mouldykevHi there - congrats on making a business out of this! For your flexvolt knowledge-base I just posted a comment on this video about another flexvolt repair "failure mode" fyi. It involves a bad output on C2 terminal, present after successful balancing all the cells, thus upsetting the charger..
Wow I had always wondered how these packs are designed, you did a great job explaining how it works in this video.
On the subject of low temp solder.. I had so much trouble trying to remove components for board repairs until I finally learned about the different low temp solders available. I ended up buying some of the “CHIPQUICK” component remover alloy. Its only for removing components because it’s too brittle when cool to be used as a solder, so you need to be sure to clean it off your iron tip and the board well. That stuff has really been a game changer for me though for removing smd components as well as big through-hole components like mosfets. I may have to look into some other kinds of “low melt” too, it might be nice to have one that can be used without cleaning it off so thoroughly after.
Thanks for sharing, love your videos!
Thanks for your kind comment!
Yes, the low temp solder is so helpful on removal and a very good point about cleaning the tip afterwards before soldering components back on. Thanks for sharing!
@@ThriftyToolShed Thanks for always being so good about reading and replying to comments! I’ve been watching your videos for a few years now since I was trying to troubleshoot an EGO battery. You even made a short follow up video to answer a question I had back then and I’ve been a fan ever since. Actually I think you may have even helped shape my appreciation for Southern accents and their associated charm to be honest lol.
You’re a great teacher, fixer and creator. Keep up the great work, wish you and your channel all the best!
Much Mahalos and Aloha!
🤙
@@maukamanThanks so much for your kind comment and for being so encouraging. It is so much appreciated! Aloha
I read that a possible failure mode is using it in 60v and having some cells discharge unevenly for whatever reason, which when removing the battery then shorts the pack back to the 20v configuration and instantly recharges the unevenly discharged cells at super high amperage causing damage.
I can absolutely see that being an issue. If left in a 60v tool for a extended time (and you know it will) all in series and of course as you mentioned pulling it out puts it back in 20V configuration and if cells are unbalanced it would be bad when they all go in parallel for sure. These packs are expensive and alot to go wrong and too time consuming to repair alot of the time.
@@ThriftyToolShed I hear you, so the only way is replacement. What ashame! Enjoyed watching.
Amazing video, appreciate the electronics focus which is rare in the tool video arena.
I'm working on a like new mid-2023 9ah that after manually charging and balancing all the cells (all of them holding voltage just fine) , the C2 terminal is giving north of 8.5v which the charger no-likey. I think C4 is direct connect (via some small resistance) to cell 4+, bank 1, whereas C2 (as well as C1&C3, when in 20v mode) are synthesized by the logic board. I don't know if my situation indicates a board fault, or possibly a self-destruct mechanism like the old makita packs used to have. Have you come across this?
Many thanks and glad I found/subscribed to your channel👍
EDIT: * UPDATE :
Close inspection with a magnifying headset revealed a half mm discoloration on one of the 14 traces of the cell voltage connection ribbon on one side. Scraped down to bare copper either side, and failed continuity test. Jumping these two points corrected the C2 voltage level. I think the ID resistance measurement was also corrupted by this and I assume it will also correct back to ~600ohm once I solder a permanent wire repair jumper. I'm definitely not a fan of Dewalt moving from wires to this paper thin and delicate ribbon. I acquired the pack cheaply and dont know its history, but its mfg date is only few months ago and it looks nearly new but has some signs of use so wasn't factory DOA either...
Excellent find!
I have seen 2 packs with similar issues and I was hoping to get a hold of a new (good working) pack to make sure this was really reading in error as I noticed a difference from regular 20V max, but I do not own a good working FlexVolt to say for sure. You have most likely found a very common issue with these! I wanted to learn more about them and I have had 3 broken ones now, but with the expense of them and my honest dislike of the overall design I never bought a brand new one to double check my readings on the bad packs. Thanks so much for sharing that information. It is very helpful.
Chahahc, you are absolutely correct, its a common failure mode for this battery ie 1 cell discharges unevenly and causes the other 4 in series (3 banks in series in 60V mode) to overcharge when in 20V mode. Very difficult to replace a single faulty cell then balance in 60V mode before balancing again in 20V mode. I have youtube video showing how to easily replace a single cell in a pack. Thrifty has shown the older model pre 2019 I think, the new mode has a flexible circuit connector instead of wires to each cell monitoring point. New model seems to have better cells but fails in other ways. Message me if you are interested.
ID pin shematic is not simple, resistor 604 Om not connected to ground, some addotional shematic there. Baterry not charge becose some ID signal problem. Sorry for my english)
Yes, it is not simply connected to ground it is indeed a more complex circuit with a transistor and it seems that it can enable or disable the tool as well as let the tool know which type of pack is inserted? I think I have mentioned this in some videos over the years. Obviously I have no schematic, just looking over the board. Thanks for your comment!
I believe you can’t use the C1,2,3,4 terminals to accurately measure cell voltages. I’ve repaired two by now and both of them could have changing cell voltage readings based on pressing the switch to go to 60v. I think the voltages that we’re there were for telling the charger the battery is good. That being said, I don’t think it should read 0v like it did with yours. Can’t wait till you get into that 12AH!
6:59 V8L F7 093 SMD CODE element name ?
It does not show up in any search like it is a custom chip or ASIC.
would it be possible to use tool batteries for portable ham radio use? they require 12 to 13.8v but no less than 9.5v discharged?
any thoughts on repurposing these? thanks Craig kd9uqe
I would think so and depending on current draw you could build or buy a BMS board to cut out for voltage minimum of a 3S or 12V pack. Usual cut out for a 12V or 3S pack is around 8.8V or so. If that voltage is too low then a Low voltage cut off module might work? The pack in this video is too high of voltage of course, but I think you are asking if the cells could be utilized as a 3S arrangement for 12V power?
If you are trying to use tool batteries for powering lower voltage stuff you should look into step-down or “buck converters”. They can be found online really cheap and will allow you to set the output voltage as well as current to pretty much anything lower than the supply. There are different models that handle different amounts of current. Very handy little devices!
Thrifty tool shed do you know what battery cells could replace the
EVE 18650 15P 1500mAh 20C 30A Li-ion Batterys. Its for the generic Milwaukee xc 18 volt battery 6 amp hour im asking because the eve 18650 15p 1500mah 20c 30a are harder to find
Sorry I have not had to search for these to say. I try to use 18650batterystore.com for alot of my cells and I know what you mean, a lot of cells are out of stock.
@@ThriftyToolShed thank you i looked at one of your past videos and i figured out how to look at each cells specs and decided to go with the LG 18650hb 2 1500 mah