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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- Another way to drill the hole in perfect center through the round shape bar.
I use 12mm brass bar just to show you the process. this method is good if you heave to drill more same parts, just use harder material for lead.
music:
Runaways, Silent Partner from youtube audio library
I know a lot of people scoff at this vid, but they should realise that just because they have knowledge, does not mean that everybody has. and people like me appreciate someone giving their time to help out others. I have tried it myself, but you tube did not work out for me.
I did my time as a tool maker back in the early 70's, but gave it all up as the money was rubbish in those days, and so became a builder. Now in my 70's,
I have aquired a small old metal lathe and milling machine, with all the tools I could wish for, and I have not got a clue how to use them. It's true what they say, use it or loose it. Now i'm getting tips from you tube to get by. Thanks for the vid, very helpful.
Great to hear but i don't agree with your word "use it or loose it" i collect the tools even if i need only here and there, tool.is always good to heave and there is never enough 😅
A rod will not deform as much as a hollow pipe, especially if you use care. And a brad bit would not tend to slide off. Do it slowly and carefully.
This was a very good example of how you can do this . Thank you. I've been a job shop/r&d machinist for over 40 years and I've never seen anyone use this method. Hence the saying " you are never too old to learn ". I also know from experience that if you give the same job to 10 different machinists, it will be done 10 different ways. They all get the job done, but not always so perfect. I clamp the round part in a mill vise and touch off on the back jaw with an edge finder and zero the DRO (digital read out), then move the edge finder to the front vise jaw and touch. Then I divide that movement in half and then move the table to that dimension. I always spot the hole with a center drill slightly larger than the hole I want to drill otherwise, the other drill may walk . I know many peeps do not have a DRO on their home mills, but the same method can be used with your dials as long as you take in consideration the backlash.
Great trick. Would be easy if EVERYBODY had a lathe in their shop
Thank you. Finally, 3 minutes of TH-cam video that I will remember and use from now on.
Tintek33, for several years I used to install and overhaul General Electric Co. gas turbine generator sets in the 20 to 60 Megawatt range in the absolute armpits of the world. Proper tools, jigs, fixtures were very seldom available and we had to use our wits to come up with solutions to dozens of problems every day. Sometimes a simple dial indicator was unavailable for 2-3 weeks or more. In Venezuela it was a 4 hour drive to get a pack of hack saw blades from our location. We had bamboo ladders in Taiwan, hardly OSHA approved.
We had an occasional Field Engineer who insisted on holding diesel injector pump tolerances for roofing nails.....that's fine for a government funded Precision Prototype Aerospace Lab but not for our situation. I replaced several prima donnas on various assignments that were lagging. The goal was to get the power to the grid as soon as possible, no excuses.
I built a lot of lifting fixtures, jigs, special one time use tools right there on job sites using the universally available oxy acetylene tanks, 9'' body grinder, and welding machine, scrap steel. We always got these units up and running. Now I'm retired but still do small scale things in my garage as a hobbyist and appreciate videos like yours. Trust me....your video is not a ''disservice''.
+kimmer6 thanks
I actually used your idea this afternoon drilling parts for my Pedal Steel Guitar... What a nifty Idea. I was a Tooling Engineer for the BOEING Airplane Company, we used steel bushings & CNC machines to do that work. Your idea helped me do it the old way, in my garage. Keep up the good work.
Mr BreakRAK thanks man
Enjoyed your video. I used to work for a precision engineering firm and the guys there were always coming up with solutions to machining problems. Using the cheap caliper to mark out made me chuckle. The trouble I'd have got in doing that!
Good example of one way to get a fairly accurate hole. There are many ways of doing this as there is equipment to do it. Accuracy fully depends on the projects end use. I have gone to both extremes, from drilling a hole using a hand drill in a vise to using my vertical mill with DRO, to dial indicating a part. But thanks for the video and your input. I always get ideas for sharing information.
This is a good way of teaching people to think about a problem or figure out a method of getting a task done. good work.
Thanks
Once you have a milling machine it's a lot easier to use an edge finder to pick up the edge of the round bar. Once you have the edge you can dial over 1/2 the diameter of the bar and use your center drill to start the hole. The center drill will start the hole in the correct location even on a curved surface. Once you have center drilled your hole location the regular drill bit will follow right through the hole started by the center drill. You should probably do a tutorial on using an edge finder and that would help everyone out quite a bit.
step 2, own a lathe....
Zactly. Unless the 'stick' (round bar) is too long.
Colson Customs M
where is the chuck safety guard.
John Brewer I've yet to see anyone with the guard on these mini lathes. I took mine off after the first turning because it just gets in the way and isn't needed. If you're responsible and use some common sense they're not needed.
Always one in every bloody video. I'm starting to think its the same person...
TIN C
Another nice practical way to solve a common problem.
Well intentioned and looks accurate enough for us.
Thanks for taking the trouble to share.
Much appreciate the stirling work. We thoroughly enjoyed watching this.
And BTW, don't pay much attention to the "peanut Gallery". Cynics and critics abound the world.
aRM
Thanks aRM
This is a very good idea to keep in mind when you don't have the right tool to do the job required. This is called IMPROVIZING for those who don't know. It is a great tips. For those that always say negative comments, most of the time, it is those who never do anything in the first place. All they do is criticize. Thanks for sharing.
Good simple idea for more precise work than even using a DRO. I suppose one could make up a whole set of bushing for the rod sizes you use most. However for myself I will stay with the centering bit throughout. Then after the hole location in the bar has been established with the locating bushing then drill it to the desired size. The more I think about it the better it gets. Thank you for sharing.
Cleaver, I like it. Repeatable, quick, easy, nice one bud.
Thanks
Brilliant idea & thanks for sharing.
@enginemaxcarb. Nope, but I can spell. Thanks for the caps, I feel honoured that a knuckle dragging moron would bestow me with such class!!!
Yes, owning a lathe is a must here. But... this give some other ideas for us who don't have the "big" tools ;-)
That drilled piece can be handy and we can make some of different diameters we use at other people that have a lathe. Or, just try and make our best centered one and use it as a template.
So, it is a start idea for others to come.
I always love to try new things after i watch example videos on how to do something better.
Thanks man!
it is harder than one would think to drill a cross hole. In many cases it must be right dead on or it will not work. Your method is especially good if you have to drill many parts. MY only suggestion is that you should use a parrallel under the part, in the vice, just clear of the drill bit. It would make it easier to set up and more accurate as well.
No it's Not that hard I can do it in about 30 seconds using my Wilton Cross Slide Drill Press Vise. Chuck up the Round Stock bring the Split bit drill bit down close to the stock Crank the handle back and forth on the cross slide moving the drill bit down and the moment the bit touches the round stock thats the High Point "Center" Lock Down Your Vise and Drill. : )
use a 6" steel ruler lay it flat on round stock, touch and hold it with a centre drill. move the table left or right until ruler is level, remove ruler and drill
This method is not accurate
I like this method..... too get you close only though. My experience, it gets you within 5 to 10 thou.
Very good. And it's so simple. Thanks for tip.
A much simpler method, is to just drill a hole in the centre. BOSH, job done!
That is certainly a good way to do it. Same principle could be used for other round materials that needed similarly centered hole. Cool.
This is a common sense way to drill, I like it. Thanks.
Thanks for this video. I use the same method because I have a good mini lathe but a very bad drill press. It is an easy way to make multiple parts accurately.
Exactly, i shown on a mill because i don't got a drillpress in this workshop, this method is good for a drillpress wich center itself, thanks
you can use V-blcok, it's not expensive, check the ebay. it can handle any diameter.
The ebay?
@@TMPreRaff
Sure, the ebay. If you can't find it there, ask the Googles.
You don't need a lathe. Instead of using round stock for your drill guide, use square or rectangular stock. Easy to set up in vice and drill your guide holes - you can even drill a number of holes of different diameters so that you have more than one drill size / hole option available for drilling through your round bar.
If you want to drill through centre of thicker round bar stock, simply put appropriate thickness shims either side of your square / rectangular "guide" in the vice to centre it over the round bar.
Genius. I only "got it" towards the end. Very cool. Thank you.
Anytime I hold two parts of "same" thickness in a machinist vice I always put a single piece of masking tape on the moving jaw contacting both parts and indicate from the solid jaw. The tape (or even a single piece of paper) will allow you to hold both pieces firmly because it compensates for VERY slightly non square jaws like yours or material that may be .002" or LESS different. This will prevent your guide from lifting or spinning and still give you an exact alignment.
Joe G great tip, thanks for that, simple and work well i think, i will try next time.
Very clever. I will follow just this procedure next time I have to drill such a hole.
Fkng outstanding!💗👏👏👏👍
Using the bush as a guide. Very smart. Thank you
Great video! Thanks for sharing this great idea....Realistically, you can just get a spacer of the same diameter as the rod you want to drill and then set everything up like you see at: 2:33 and drill through the spacer, as it will align everything for you.
Great tip, this would be good for keyway set up also.
well played sir well played .
I like this, and have the stuff to do it this way, thanks.
Very smart way
Why not clamp a vee block in your vice, touch off either side of the bar using an edge finder, and drill using a self-centering 3xd drill, something decent, hss-e, short, and tin coated? Do you brass off your drills for this type of work? To save time, you could have even put the bar straight in the vice, your toolmaker's vixe has a small notch in the moving jaw for that; touch off the fixed jaw, and mic the bar, move accross half the bar width. You could see the drill flex as it entered the hole, picking up the non-hardened bushing, probably ending off at least .1 mm off centre. Sometimes if I need it really dead on, i'll pre-drill with an appropriately sized endmill to create a guide for the drill, if true position of the hole is important.
Note to those who are offering alternate ways to drill on center, including touching off the vise jaws with a known diameter tool...This is not about FINDING the center but rather HOLDING center as you begin to drill. Even after center drilling your location, a little drift is possible. You start on center but don't emerge on center on the opposite side.
What he's offering is a cheap drill jig to keep the drill bit on path by minimizing flex and drift, that's all. Not bad advice, though most home shops with drill presses will not have metal lathes, sad to say.
Thanks for this! I've looking for solutions using different search terms and here I am. I'm working on a ~ .25 pin that needs a hole for a .125 cross pin. I'll just say with am older manual mill and the very small pin, most of the other "suggestions" also have downsides. I have been pondering a drill guide bushing, commercial ones are available, "but" they still have to be placed accurately. Last night I set center with a dial test indicator. My second attempt. If I get it wrong, I know what I'm going to do for my 4th. Thanks!
Actually one of fist comment that see a potencial of use this.
Also i never drill that way but just want to show another option...
I can see why people are puzzled by this. If you have a machine shop, you don't need to do this, and if you don't have machine shop then you can't do it. To be fair it's a good idea if you had to give it to a junior machinist or labourer to pump out a number of holes consistently.
Mee, there is a simple made in china tool for that purpose, I have one for 3 deferent size of rods, drill holes on top, just fix the tool over the standard sizes of rod and make a hole from provided drill holes on top of that tool.
Mee Ibast
I would never have taught anyone to do this.
Fair enough guys. Just pointing out there is some logic here.
Dial indicator, edge finder, etc. to find center. Once you've done that, every other one is going to be centered, just don't move the dials.
Good job
soooooooooooo,to dril a perfect center hole, i need a lathe and a mill???hihihih
And also why do you need that hole too?
Stefan Stamatov don't forget the drill press
I have the right tool for that purpose, and guess what? I paid only 99 cent plus tax for it, made in China, works amazingly.
No it doesnt.
What is this tool please?
simple. I admire your genius.
Unique and elaborate solution to a fairly simple problem. Seems if you had to buy a special tool or jig it would still be cheaper than buying a metal lathe.
that is absolutely ingenious
i dont had a lathe or a milling machine, i have a benchdrill and a 3d printed, the way i do it is print a rectangle with a center hole of 0.25 mm less of diameter of the bar, and another hole in the top.then i pass the exact drill of the shaft, put it in the vise, becouse is rectanlge is going to be almost perfect squared, i printed several, but its highly recomended first make the deeper hole you can with the center bit
brilliant idea..and thanks
the S W A G method is the go to tool for us that don't have a lathe
Ottima soluzione, bravo.
I rather enjoyed the cleverness in developing the center. The music was only a bit loud, but OK in selection.
Mr BreakRAK thanks, i take advice for next time.
I've seen myself score a line on one end of the bar and along the length of it. Line up the score on the end with a 90° tool (vee-block, steel rule, parallel bar etc) and just drill as many holes along the length as you wish
Great Idea. I use Centre Punch and eyeball method.
With all due respect if that's ALL you use you won't get a hole accurately centered, period. Sometimes, "by eye" is good enough. But sometimes it simply isn't. If that hole is through a shaft, and a sleeve fits around the shaft, and a roll pin pins the sleeve to the shaft? I guarantee it won't be good enough. My eye is good to about .010. My DRO on the other hand is accurate to .00001.
Only God can do that within 5 decimal places.
prick punch
Fine !
I thought I might learn something. And I did. I learned I need to buy a lathe.
бином ньютона открыли. просьейший кондуктор - открытие века
I messed up 2 of my parts for my college part making a piston pin and I need them in around 2 classes so I hope that this helps me tomorrow I need 11 pistons total 😂
if you are going to use verniers as a scribe block you can also use them as g clamps for welding and as an adjustable spanner. if you can't crack that nut just put some pipe on the end....
manofausagain i didn't take them as ground clamp, they did not heave eaven a spring, and not hold 200a constantly, but you can try, there are all kind of people in this world.
i know you want to sound like a smart man, with sarcasm... but you don't because you didb't notice that i measure with digital mitutoyo caliper and scrabling with a cheap one $5 caliper.
eny other smart advice from you?
So bottom line is it will be as accurate as the hole punch and how well you center the vice and drill press. But hey, depending on what you are doing, it's probably close enough for most applications and a good improvise. Good stuff for those who don't have access to a machine shop.
Good info, thanks for posting.
To all that are saying this video is not the best way to do the job.As the title said. This is another way to do it. We know there are other,and better ways, but this is simply another way.
Thanks god that someone understand
99.9% of the population appreciates your time and talent for demonstrating "another method..." Count me within that percentage. :)
Nice inspiration, thanks :)
Brilliant thanks.
Thanks
Simplicity is beautiful :-)
I'm no machinist but this looks like a neat workaround. I see down-votes and I comprehend the logic but there are indeed many ways to skin a cat.
you can also use a short drillbit. since longer ones tend to bend. and if you have to drill holes in a line on the rod. make a setup where you can move it across without moving it to the sides. and for marking a line you could use aluminium angle that fits the length of the rod. (since iron tends to be a out of angle more so than aluminium). and if you dont have any cnc machines you could take a metal plate and use a drill press meaure from the the hole you drilled in the plate to points you can hit on the drill press ( also measurements for the vice you are using) and use it for reference when setting up the rod.
This video is pretty misleading.
The easy/right way is to just know the diameter or the stock and the center drill. Touch off the vise jaws with the center drill and make the adjustment to the center of the stock using a dial indicator if you don't have a readout on the machine.
If I did stuff like this at work they would probably fire me. Not only for wasting time, but also wasting material.
Also, brass as a drill guide. No, just don't. That's a job for hardened steel if it's required to locate a hole.
I can just imagine some guy watching this and thinking this is the way it's suppose to be done.
Bottom line, You're doing a disservice to the community with this type of misleading advice. If you want to teach people how to do something; please teach the proper way.
Hy!
I know that there is many way to drill a hole through, you just can take a hand drill and bore through.
I am not a teacher even not the mechanic, i work with electronics and that is just my hobby, and someone show me how to do that and i think that's a good idea and make a video about.
And after all i think that youtube is NOT right place to learning, but sometimes you got some good idea.
If you want to learning some special knowledge you must look some video like that:
th-cam.com/video/5tqH-Un9SFU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks
Thanks for the reply, It's nice to see took my comment the right way.
I understand what you're saying about youtube not being the right place for learning, but that's unfortunately the case most of the time.
I make simple fishing videos for fun and entertainment, but I swear at least 10% of the comments I get are from people thanking me for teaching them how to fish. Even tho that's not my intention on most of my videos it seems that's why some people are watching.
Try the method I outlined sometime and see for yourself how much easy and faster it is. It will be accurate if you get the measurements right and do the math to make your adjustments.
If you want the quick and dirty method, just chuck up a piece in the vice. Use your calipers to measure the distance between the clamped down jaws, divide that number by two and set your cheap scribing calipers to score a mark in the middle of your part. That center drill you used in the lathe should be used to start the hole of course, but it should be just as accurate as the drill guide/bushing method you used, but about 10x faster.
Hy
I know for that method, i usualy use dro (if you vach my other video can see how to mount it into minimill)
So i don't use this method for every bore, just someone show me that way and seem great idea to me, so make a movei about this.
agreed
exactly that is what i want to tell, but i don't heave a drill pres so show the process on mill.
This metod is better to do on drill press because it will find center itself by moving the vice.
thank you so much for helping to solve a problem I have had and same time how to build a hole guide for drilling straight holes with special diametres. $😁😁😁
knifemakers supply places sell these things called round bar center finder or something like that which is this thing you attach to the drill bit and it kind of swivels back and forth and when the markings line up the bit is centered
Thank you for a very helpfull machining tip, regards Doc Cox
Are you serious? Thank you for this kind of comment
Definitely serious and will be putting this into practise in the near future.
You can put the center drill in the mill chuck, you know.
So the mystery is, buy a lot of tools and make it perfect using the tools you already would have needed anyway. That's a good piece of advice.
That was excellent. I don't own a lathe but I can make it work brilliant.
coooolllll! thanks for sharing. great idea.
Yup that helped! Thanks!
Not to bust your bubble but there a about a dozen basic ways to cross drill round work through the axis. The quick lathe bushing idea is great but time consuming. I suggest learners of milling and drilling techniques look into the uses of the wiggled.
I don't have a lathe or a mill. You probably don't need this trick if you have a good mill. To get my perfect hole, I use a square file and in a single stroke make a flat on the bar. Careful measurement and marking with a punch. Then center a V Block on your drill press in a vise and drill using a small carbide bit.
The idea of making a drill bushing out of the same material as what needs to be drilled is a good idea. However, precariously clamping the bushing by the very edge in an admittedly non-parallel press vise seemed to defeat the whole purpose of making the bushing in the first place.
first . you need a rigid machine and a rigid setup . step 2 you need a stubby carbide drill 2-3-4 times the diameter cutting lenght , go low and slow until you pass the round 'surface' . When the drill gets to cut fully you can speed and feed more seriously .
Brilliant, thanks for sharing a very good idea :)
No problem, thanks
The guess the idea of using an edge finder never crossed your mind. If you already have the equipment, as it shows you do, you must have an edge finder???
An edge finder... a test indicator... the basic tools... and the cheap ones will work just fine for the hobbyists.
Nice..but I thought u were going to drill a hole through the entire center of the rod ! But at least I learned something new..if I ever get a lathe
Nice trick...thanks
Nice tip. Thank you for sharing. :)
You clever bastard that’s so simple! 😅😂
Bushings help, but I've seen them not hit exact center quite a lot. You can also take an endmill, make a small flat before you run the center drill. Held 0.0001" accuracy to center all day long.
if small end mill cut spot round it's in center if not round not in center with lightest cut possible
This is close to the center - but not perfect by any means. To be honest, your title is misleading. It also looked like you made virtually no attempt to have your bar clamped accurately perpendicular to the drill bit. The hole will probably not be accurately vertical to the bar axis.
You have received lots of comments with friendly and unfriendly advice. My two cents would be to replace this with an improved and more accurate video, given the machinery that you have at your disposal.
Or, just use the centering drill to start the hole on the rod and/or use a small end mill to flatten the area to be drill, then spot then to size.
Excellent idea!
+René Merz thanks
I just use an edge finder and a centre drill, if there are multiple pieces I set up a stop to put the parts against.
I agree that this is an extremely inefficient method. You could clamp the bar in the vice, hold a verdict indicator in the chuck, swing it and move the table until the dial registers the same off both jaws. Perfectly centred.
If you want a rough but quick method - put a 6inch rule on the bar and perpendicular to it and gently hold it in place with the drill point (clamped in the chuck). Move the table back and forth until you hit the position where the rule lies horizontal, the drill is then on centre. Also works to set the height of a lathe tool on centre vertically.
Touch off the rear vise jaw, move forward in Y 1/2 the bar diameter. If you're being picky, spot face a tiny flat with a center-cutting end mill, or not. Then spot drill, and drill the hole.
Eric Wallgren that is the basic way yes, i use that way all the time, but just want to show "another" way, works eaven greater with drillpress.
Nice one .
What about an indicator or wiggler to pick up centre and then a centre drill........and do it right all on the milling machine.
Thanks that really helps
Clever.... But a lot of work and one needs a lathe. Why not use a V-block?
ha I just left a comment saying we used regular blocks worked everytime V-block wouldve been nice same basic idea cradle rest
grassy climer I have to admit his method is clever. But one has to own a $500 or more lathe.
You can just use a Prazi Lathe 5x12 plus tools about $3K
The B block only stabilizes the workpiece, it does not centre it. I also did this in the days before having a mill or a lathe the latter which came after thr mill. Its best not to critisize the method. We all have to start somewhere
V block sorry
Round bar center finder and a sharp split point bit. takes about 30 seconds to do the same with the added benefit of not making a guide on a size change
clever well done
Certainly a long way to get the perfectly centred hole BUT it does do the job. Step 1. Buy a lathe and THAT'S where the whole process falls in a screaming heap!
very good
nice