Goodson and Todman understood how important it was that these people you saw every week for 15 years were like friends and family to the viewers. Bennet like the uncle one has who is always making bad puns.
Mark Goodson at 20:10 told an entertaining story about Martin Gabel, to wit: someone asked Martin, because of his diction, if he were British, and Martin replied no--he was merely affected. Goodson went on to say that Martin was one of the least affected people he'd ever met. I must say I have really come to like Martin Gabel, my having seen him almost exclusively on this show.
I find the most enjoyable episodes are the ones where the mystery challengers are, either, Goodson and Todman or the family of the panelists. Especially when they get away with it. Always fun!
Bennett's pun involving "Rudolph the Red knows rain, dear," which he attributed to John Daly got some reaction of course. I loved Martin's comment at 2:50, "John, no one who knows you both could possibly believe that you made it up." Bennett does take credit for it in a book published in 1968 titled, "Bennett Cerf's Treasury of Atrocious Puns".
I first heard it in an episode of Candid Camera in which Allen Funt tells the pun to very small children and then films them trying to tell it other little children. They screw it up hilariously. It was one of my favorite Candid Camera episodes. I no more believe that Cerf wrote this pun than I believe he stayed up nights grading papers from the Famous Writers School.
gcjerryusc It’s probably the type of humor. I react the same way to Jerry Lewis as you do to VB. I could never stand to watch Jerry but others find him great. I don’t find him the least bit funny.
I wish Mark Goodson had given Arlene the credit she deserved. The other regulars were journalists and/or business people, but Arlene had legitimate star power from an entertainment perspective. She was also easily the wittiest person on this show.
+Joe Postove True! There was an episode a couple of weeks previously where he asked a "this or that" question...and got it right! I almost fell out of my chair.
Reluctant Dragon Two shows with best wishes for Christmas in a row. Just a moment, I thought about taking a peak outside my window, and check if there was any snow ;)
@gcjerryusc It' doesn't matter if it's a White Christmas or not, as long as you're having a nice time. :) (My remark came, because of the time I was wathching these videos. It was still summer, outside my window! ;) )
@@SuperWinterborn I, just, looked out my window and there's, about, 3 inches of snow on the ground. Of course, it's the middle of January in Northwestern Montana so that might be a given.
RE second contestant from Bonwit-Teller: The next year Arlene got on the B-T board of directors. Soon into the future Johnny Olsen started announcing that “Miss Francis’s gown by Bonwit-Teller.” Dorothy: nighty chinchilla . LOL.
RE: Noodle magnate monseigneur . Only one of a string of cleric contestants through the years. Fates wrote that the show once booked a nun who was an auto mechanic, but I have yet to see that film surface.
I've seen comments previously listing the rare occurrences when the ladies on the panel stand to greet a guest. We've just had two in the past few days; the monsignor here and a sister who was head of a military academy.
Daly, Goodson and Todman seem here on TV at Christmas friendly enough, considering - based on that news article posted on in WML Facebook - Daly threatened to leave WML in Oct 1963 if the producers did not improve his contract considerably. Gentlemen, cough up. Must have been hard ball stuff considering that Daly got some control over the show. Fates wrote that Daly was close to the business-money-partner Todman and less so with the show-biz-creative-partner Goodson, who apparently with Fates longed to screw around with a $ucce$$ful format. Over Daly’s dead body, boys.
soulierinvestments But please tell everyone where you first learned about that 1963 contract dispute. Arlene would have offered the plug without my asking. (just kidding around. . . )
It doesn’t sound like “hard ball” to me. It sounds like standard business negotiations. “Hard ball” is whom it starts getting personal and there are threats of harm to someone’s reputation if they don’t capitulate.
"Has this food ever been alive?" Nearly *all* food has been alive at some point. Noodles are made of wheat or some other grain that comes from a plant, which is a living being.
RE: Dorothy's gown. What was that line from the "Singin' in the Rain" fashion show? -- "simply drips with fringe." She looks like one of those 1960s Christmas trees covered in tinsel icicles.
Christmas 1963. As I recall, among my gifts, I got a Frosty the Snow Cone Machine and a Kenner Give A Show Projector. In truth, Frosty was just an ice crusher with a snowman exterior and the projector just showed slides of Hanna-Barbera cartoons but, when you're five, it doesn't take much to make you happy. And they did, and I was.
Bennett asks the 2nd contestant, Carol Stone, if she's related to Fred Stone, and he mentions Montgomery and Stone, a long time vaudeville partnership. Those two appeared in the first production of "The Wizard of Oz' in 1902, with Stone as the Scarecrow and Montgomery as the Tin Man. Fred Stone did have 3 daughters who were actors and one was named Carol. Fred Stone was a much beloved stage performer. I only know him because he played Katherine Hepburn's character's father in the film "Alice Adams" from 1935. TCM shows 'Alice Adams' from time to time and it's a gem. Once you see Fred Stone, you will not forget him. Bennett didn't. Fred is the uncle of both Milburn Stone of 'Gunsmoke' and Madge Blake of 'Batman' and several Gene Kelly movies.
You must have forgotten about McCarthyism. People lost their livelihoods, their jobs, their liberty and some even their lives in the 1950s hunted down to comply with conservative dogma. Please don’t confuse an amiable Sunday evening game show produced to sell a commercial product as an accurate reflection of larger society or culture at the time.
@@syd8802 I wear a Pikachu mask and I tell people, "Make fun of my Pikachu mask and I use Thunderbolt." Little kids are fun to watch when they see it. I should mention that WML was in its second year when I was born.
No, in Dec. 1963 this would have been her second to last Christmas. She died Nov. 8, 1965, so she was still alive for the Christmas occurring in Dec. 1964.
Were Goodson-Todman known for generosity or miserliness or somewhere in between with the crews of their shows and the talent too (being aware of the recent John Daly and G-T imbroglio)?
Joe Postove Good question. . . I can only speculate so hopefully others who know the real facts can weigh in. The sense I get about that 1963 contract dispute, based on what John said in the article that was posted to the Facebook group, is that it was more of a power issue than money. John was complaining that he had been offered a "take it or leave it" deal, and seemed to have felt it was disrespectful to not allow him to negotiate for a new contract. Bennett Cerf, in the oral history interview he gave, referred to the amount of money they received for WML as "obscene", which doesn't sound like the kind of thing one would say about miserly producers. Also, I think the long,.long, LONG working associations G-T had with so many of their onscreen talent implies a happy relationship. But I'm speculating!
18:59 Arlene Francis to Goodson and Todman after the reveal and in reference to her asking them during the round if they were Santa Claus: "What do you mean you're not Santa Claus! If ever there was a Santa Claus...".
The fashions and æsthetic of the 1950s did not suit Goodson at all. He really came into his own in the 60s and 70s. He just looked like the 70s long before they occurred.
I guess no Happy Hanukahs from G-T even though I know Mark was Jewish and I think Bill was as well. Even as late as late 1963 TV was white, Christian, and Anglo-Saxon. Gee Willikers.
Joe Postove Yeah, that's just how it was then. . . Even as late as 1970, CBS executives were terrified of the Rhoda Morgenstern character on the Mary Tyler Moore show, because she was deemed "too Jewish" and "too New York".
What's My Line? Here is BT's Obituary. While it doesn't say he's Jewish he is noted for giving to a number of Jewish charities. But like you, I have not seen anything definitive. I guess there's no mention of it in the Fates book Well, that's OK. We've got 7 million over here, all in one place, and that's plenty for me. :>) www.evi.com/q/facts_about__mark_goodson
Joe Postove What's My Line? I'm not sure whether or not they actually said "Happy Hanukkah" at the time, but I seem to remember some mention of Hanukkah at least once when one of the mystery guests was about to perform at a Hanukkah benefit for some charitable organization or something like that. A quick web search of the usual biographical resources does not turn up any answers to whether Bill Todman was Jewish or not. Bennett Cerf and Martin Gabel were both born Jewish, though I don't think either of them particularly followed the Jewish religion as adults. According to Arlene's memoirs, Martin had a strong cultural identification with his Jewish heritage. I have heard about CBS's anxiety regarding the Jewish Rhoda Morgenstern character in the early 70s before, but it's kind of ironic, because in earlier years, Jewish characters were not unusual in television and radio. Fred Allen and Jack Benny both featured distinctively Jewish characters in their shows, and Gertrude Berg's "The Goldbergs" was a widely popular and successful show on both radio and television for many years. Catholic Fred Allen frequently sprinkled his own speech with Yiddish words on his show -- much moreso than Jewish Jack Benny or George Burns ever did, I think. In the 1960s "The Dick Van Dyke Show" prominently featured Yiddishisms from time to time (the "Bupkes" episode comes to mind) and also included a memorable episode in which Buddy Sorrell has a bar mitzvah.
SaveThe TPC Yes, there's certainly a lot of precedent for Jewish characters before Rhoda. But CBS's problem with Rhoda was probably influenced at least in part by the fact that CBS didn't like the whole MTM Show, top to bottom. Also, she wasn't just a Jewish character, she was a brash Jewish New Yorker. Mrs. Nussbaum, Mr. Kitzel, the Goldbergs, these were all very gentle characters.
SaveThe TPC I am shocked, shocked to hear that Bennett was born of my loins (so to speak). Any source on that, Save..., because that's real news to me. He seems like the Wasp's WASP!
![What's My Line? - Bert Lahr; Peter Ustinov [panel] (Jan 6, 1963) [UPGRADE!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/myzfq4nDrZU/mqdefault.jpg)
![What's My Line? - Bert Lahr; Peter Ustinov [panel] (Jan 6, 1963) [UPGRADE!]](/img/tr.png)
![What's My Line? - Lucille Ball; Buddy Hackett [panel]; Martin Gabel [panel] (Mar 7, 1965)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/unYI4grbYrY/mqdefault.jpg)
![What's My Line? - Stan Musial; Steve Allen; Steve Lawrence & Martin Gabel [panel] (Mar 8, 1964)](/img/n.gif)
Goodson and Todman understood how important it was that these people you saw every week for 15 years were like friends and family to the viewers. Bennet like the uncle one has who is always making bad puns.
I think that's why this show is still so popular and memorable for people today.
"Rudolph the Red knows rain, dear." was so awful, it was good!
Mark Goodson at 20:10 told an entertaining story about Martin Gabel, to wit: someone asked Martin, because of his diction, if he were British, and Martin replied no--he was merely affected. Goodson went on to say that Martin was one of the least affected people he'd ever met. I must say I have really come to like Martin Gabel, my having seen him almost exclusively on this show.
What a lovely dress Ms. Stone was wearing. And she was pretty as well.
I agree.
I enjoy the show the most when Martin is on the panel. Good Guy
I always look forward to episodes with Martin. He is such a joy.
@@shirleyrombough8173 It's not polite nor is it proper etiquette to glom on to a top comment and talk about someone else.
I find the most enjoyable episodes are the ones where the mystery challengers are, either, Goodson and Todman or the family of the panelists. Especially when they get away with it. Always fun!
Bennett's pun involving "Rudolph the Red knows rain, dear," which he attributed to John Daly got some reaction of course. I loved Martin's comment at 2:50, "John, no one who knows you both could possibly believe that you made it up." Bennett does take credit for it in a book published in 1968 titled, "Bennett Cerf's Treasury of Atrocious Puns".
I first heard it in an episode of Candid Camera in which Allen Funt tells the pun to very small children and then films them trying to tell it other little children. They screw it up hilariously. It was one of my favorite Candid Camera episodes. I no more believe that Cerf wrote this pun than I believe he stayed up nights grading papers from the Famous Writers School.
the priest was so kind - his voice was comforting and filled with God's love
Amen!
This should have been the permanent panel. Martin did so many guest appearances, I consider him the unofficial 4th panelist.
Martin appeared as guest panellist 112 times.
Crap tribute to Arlene from producers
@gcjerryusc - I never saw anything funny in him.
gcjerryusc I saw him perform live and he had the audience rolling
gcjerryusc It’s probably the type of humor.
I react the same way to Jerry Lewis as you do to VB. I could never stand to watch Jerry but others find him great. I don’t find him the least bit funny.
It is always the ultimate sign of respect when Dorothy and Arlene stand to say goodbye to the guest 😊
I wish Mark Goodson had given Arlene the credit she deserved. The other regulars were journalists and/or business people, but Arlene had legitimate star power from an entertainment perspective. She was also easily the wittiest person on this show.
She was paid more than any other member of the show so I think they understood.
Yet Dorothy guessed correctly.
I'd like to see a gag reel of Bennett asking whether it is this or that and then (it seems) almost always guessing wrong. The frustration of it all!
+Joe Postove True! There was an episode a couple of weeks previously where he asked a "this or that" question...and got it right! I almost fell out of my chair.
Haha, Bennett's a good sport about it, though - he usually has that big, cheeky grin on his face whenever he's met with the inevitable "no"!
Gosh, I'm in the holiday spirit now! :-)
Reluctant Dragon Two shows with best wishes for Christmas in a row. Just a moment, I thought about taking a peak outside my window, and check if there was any snow ;)
Zardon M Good exercise! :)
@gcjerryusc It' doesn't matter if it's a White Christmas or not, as long as you're having a nice time. :) (My remark came, because of the time I was wathching these videos. It was still summer, outside my window! ;) )
Me too!! Even COVID can't ruin the joy of Christmas
@@SuperWinterborn I, just, looked out my window and there's, about, 3 inches of snow on the ground. Of course, it's the middle of January in Northwestern Montana so that might be a given.
This was a golden episode!
This is indeed an absolute classic episode.
Factoid: On the very first Christmas episode of this show from 1950, an unidentified actor masquerading as Santa Claus was the mystery guest.
RE second contestant from Bonwit-Teller: The next year Arlene got on the B-T board of directors. Soon into the future Johnny Olsen started announcing that “Miss Francis’s gown by Bonwit-Teller.”
Dorothy: nighty chinchilla . LOL.
RE: Noodle magnate monseigneur . Only one of a string of cleric contestants through the years. Fates wrote that the show once booked a nun who was an auto mechanic, but I have yet to see that film surface.
I think advertising back then is more appealing and effective than modern, frequently irrelevant, advertising. I now want corn flakes.
I've seen comments previously listing the rare occurrences when the ladies on the panel stand to greet a guest. We've just had two in the past few days; the monsignor here and a sister who was head of a military academy.
I also noticed recently the ladies standing for the 85 year old flagpole painter (show posted Aug 7) and for Sophie Tucker (show posted Aug. 8).
Yes, Martin has occupied the guest chair more than anyone else. Thanks Arlene!
First of two pre-taped episodes that were recorded on December 15.
***** I think they originally scheduled the episode that eventually ended up airing on 12/1/63 for 11/24/63.
Daly, Goodson and Todman seem here on TV at Christmas friendly enough, considering - based on that news article posted on in WML Facebook - Daly threatened to leave WML in Oct 1963 if the producers did not improve his contract considerably. Gentlemen, cough up. Must have been hard ball stuff considering that Daly got some control over the show. Fates wrote that Daly was close to the business-money-partner Todman and less so with the show-biz-creative-partner Goodson, who apparently with Fates longed to screw around with a $ucce$$ful format. Over Daly’s dead body, boys.
soulierinvestments But please tell everyone where you first learned about that 1963 contract dispute. Arlene would have offered the plug without my asking.
(just kidding around. . . )
It doesn’t sound like “hard ball” to me. It sounds like standard business negotiations. “Hard ball” is whom it starts getting personal and there are threats of harm to someone’s reputation if they don’t capitulate.
Great ironic line from Dorothy at 23:21.
I would love a supercut of all of Bennett's terrible puns - I could watch them for hours.
A glutton for pun-ishment, huh? Sorry, it too easy.
Here, Mark Goodson claims not to be Santa, but for someone who isn't Santa, he sure did give away a lot of gifts.
"Has this food ever been alive?" Nearly *all* food has been alive at some point. Noodles are made of wheat or some other grain that comes from a plant, which is a living being.
Living thing, yes; living being, no. A being is by definition sentient.
Not in the What's my Line universe. There, only animal life is alive.
RE: Dorothy's gown. What was that line from the "Singin' in the Rain" fashion show? -- "simply drips with fringe." She looks like one of those 1960s Christmas trees covered in tinsel icicles.
And she could almost walk in it!
I loved the pun😂😂😂😂
Christmas 1963. As I recall, among my gifts, I got a Frosty the Snow Cone Machine and a Kenner Give A Show Projector. In truth, Frosty was just an ice crusher with a snowman exterior and the projector just showed slides of Hanna-Barbera cartoons but, when you're five, it doesn't take much to make you happy. And they did, and I was.
Interesting prespective on Hong Kong.
I was barely 10 years old when this first aired. My god.
This was the week I came out!
Bennett asks the 2nd contestant, Carol Stone, if she's related to Fred Stone, and he mentions Montgomery and Stone, a long time vaudeville partnership. Those two appeared in the first production of "The Wizard of Oz' in 1902, with Stone as the Scarecrow and Montgomery as the Tin Man. Fred Stone did have 3 daughters who were actors and one was named Carol. Fred Stone was a much beloved stage performer. I only know him because he played Katherine Hepburn's character's father in the film "Alice Adams" from 1935. TCM shows 'Alice Adams' from time to time and it's a gem. Once you see Fred Stone, you will not forget him. Bennett didn't. Fred is the uncle of both Milburn Stone of 'Gunsmoke' and Madge Blake of 'Batman' and several Gene Kelly movies.
When did this level of niceness disappear? I hate the PC age that I'm living in
You must have forgotten about McCarthyism. People lost their livelihoods, their jobs, their liberty and some even their lives in the 1950s hunted down to comply with conservative dogma. Please don’t confuse an amiable Sunday evening game show produced to sell a commercial product as an accurate reflection of larger society or culture at the time.
BE the change you wish to see in the world
I agree with you 💯. Everyone now is so easily offended
I remember the Blizzard of 96 too... paralyzed the Richmond area for almost a week.
That blizzard paralyzed the majority of the East Coast for a week.
While I'm more familiar of chinchillas as pets (and Pokemon), I'm thinking Dorothy's line about chinchillas is referring to a fur coat.
I just thought of Pikachu being a fur coat🤣....
HaNdS OfF mY pIkAcHu!!! LOL
@@syd8802 I wear a Pikachu mask and I tell people, "Make fun of my Pikachu mask and I use Thunderbolt." Little kids are fun to watch when they see it. I should mention that WML was in its second year when I was born.
😢
To someone like Dorothy, the word "chinchilla" ONLY refers to something you wear, NEVER to a living animal.
P00000
That is one mystery guest, I would guess no one had to goggle up on.
This would have been Dorothy's last Christmas.
No, in Dec. 1963 this would have been her second to last Christmas. She died Nov. 8, 1965, so she was still alive for the Christmas occurring in Dec. 1964.
What was up with Dorothy? It looked like she had broken a heel or something when she walked over to the panel desk.
Can’t believe he called her sexy😂
Another fine example of the female panelists standing to shake hands. Almost any time it was a religious figure, they did.
graperonto or their boss
no -- Dorothy was not ecumenical. She only stood for Catholic religious figures.
Can you imagine complimenting a lady now? They would say they were offended and file a lawsuit. Very sad
Were Goodson-Todman known for generosity or miserliness or somewhere in between with the crews of their shows and the talent too (being aware of the recent John Daly and G-T imbroglio)?
Joe Postove Good question. . . I can only speculate so hopefully others who know the real facts can weigh in. The sense I get about that 1963 contract dispute, based on what John said in the article that was posted to the Facebook group, is that it was more of a power issue than money. John was complaining that he had been offered a "take it or leave it" deal, and seemed to have felt it was disrespectful to not allow him to negotiate for a new contract. Bennett Cerf, in the oral history interview he gave, referred to the amount of money they received for WML as "obscene", which doesn't sound like the kind of thing one would say about miserly producers. Also, I think the long,.long, LONG working associations G-T had with so many of their onscreen talent implies a happy relationship. But I'm speculating!
What's My Line? Bennett referred to the money they made as scandalous.
18:59 Arlene Francis to Goodson and Todman after the reveal and in reference to her asking them during the round if they were Santa Claus: "What do you mean you're not Santa Claus! If ever there was a Santa Claus...".
@@DLAN-jb3hb , “obscene,” which was apparently the word he used is not synonymous with scandalous.
The fashions and æsthetic of the 1950s did not suit Goodson at all. He really came into his own in the 60s and 70s. He just looked like the 70s long before they occurred.
Not the first time Dorothy and Arlene stood for a religious figure 🙂
Todman (I think its him) looks so much like a young Woody Allen. It's the shape of his head I think
A very sexy man.
Bill Todman always reminds me of Woody Allen
It is sad to watch this; now everybody just bends in front of China. Because of money.
Even the organizers of Australian open tennis tournament 😥
I don't know why, but Bill Toddman looks like Woody Allen
He’s another Jewish man
I guess no Happy Hanukahs from G-T even though I know Mark was Jewish and I think Bill was as well. Even as late as late 1963 TV was white, Christian, and Anglo-Saxon. Gee Willikers.
Joe Postove Yeah, that's just how it was then. . . Even as late as 1970, CBS executives were terrified of the Rhoda Morgenstern character on the Mary Tyler Moore show, because she was deemed "too Jewish" and "too New York".
What's My Line? Here is BT's Obituary. While it doesn't say he's Jewish he is noted for giving to a number of Jewish charities. But like you, I have not seen anything definitive. I guess there's no mention of it in the Fates book Well, that's OK. We've got 7 million over here, all in one place, and that's plenty for me. :>) www.evi.com/q/facts_about__mark_goodson
Joe Postove What's My Line?
I'm not sure whether or not they actually said "Happy Hanukkah" at the time, but I seem to remember some mention of Hanukkah at least once when one of the mystery guests was about to perform at a Hanukkah benefit for some charitable organization or something like that. A quick web search of the usual biographical resources does not turn up any answers to whether Bill Todman was Jewish or not. Bennett Cerf and Martin Gabel were both born Jewish, though I don't think either of them particularly followed the Jewish religion as adults. According to Arlene's memoirs, Martin had a strong cultural identification with his Jewish heritage.
I have heard about CBS's anxiety regarding the Jewish Rhoda Morgenstern character in the early 70s before, but it's kind of ironic, because in earlier years, Jewish characters were not unusual in television and radio. Fred Allen and Jack Benny both featured distinctively Jewish characters in their shows, and Gertrude Berg's "The Goldbergs" was a widely popular and successful show on both radio and television for many years. Catholic Fred Allen frequently sprinkled his own speech with Yiddish words on his show -- much moreso than Jewish Jack Benny or George Burns ever did, I think. In the 1960s "The Dick Van Dyke Show" prominently featured Yiddishisms from time to time (the "Bupkes" episode comes to mind) and also included a memorable episode in which Buddy Sorrell has a bar mitzvah.
SaveThe TPC Yes, there's certainly a lot of precedent for Jewish characters before Rhoda. But CBS's problem with Rhoda was probably influenced at least in part by the fact that CBS didn't like the whole MTM Show, top to bottom. Also, she wasn't just a Jewish character, she was a brash Jewish New Yorker. Mrs. Nussbaum, Mr. Kitzel, the Goldbergs, these were all very gentle characters.
SaveThe TPC I am shocked, shocked to hear that Bennett was born of my loins (so to speak). Any source on that, Save..., because that's real news to me. He seems like the Wasp's WASP!
Dorothy, it wasn't your go....>_>
That mouth ruined it
Typical producers - so flattering one minute, few years later they axe you.
Please explain.