The Moral Case Against Eating Meat
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
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Alex J. O'Connor runs the CosmicSkeptic TH-cam channel and podcast / @cosmicskeptic
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Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@failinghuman) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians.
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We're hosting a discussion on morality and veganism on Qutee, join us: www.qutee.com/q/morality-and-veganism/
This week's guest Alex O'Connor argued that veganism is the most moral out of all the diets and minimises cruelty to animals.
Let us know what you think of the topics explored in the episode, did you agree or disagree with our guest?
Complete the polls and don't forget to check back in because we'll be responding to your comments!
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Francis & Konstantin
A large % of British farmland (particularly Wales) is not suitable to grow much of anything other than grass for animals to graze. Is it still environmentally ‘best’ if we have to import everything?? Could Britain self-sustain if we stop breeding cows, sheep etc & let them all die out?
We'll ingest pills for nourishment then. Animals being treated with respect... reduce the population and stop importing immigrants which doesn't discourage the third world from growing anyway.
Mr Lopez original...
S K como I’d break you in two, virgin
Richard McEllan keep crying, fatty
When Alex was about atheism he was popular. When he started speaking about veganism he started to lose that popularity. Yet he stuck to his guns. You have to admire that.
Joanne Watts yes, it’s non-conformist opinion when the surrounding culture loves it’s meat. It’s interesting to see how people who otherwise love rational debate suddenly shut down and get very emotional if they’re told that some things they find tasty might be causing harm.
@@pseudonamed Indeed. It is a testament to the everlasting subjectivity of human nature. Atheists rail against the cognitive dissonance of theists and the mental gymnastics and rationales that god-believers create to keep believing in a God that clearly doesn't exist. Yet those same "rational thinkers" come up with a host of reasons as to why humans eating animals is somehow morally justifiable. It isn't. It's surely more honest to continue eating meat whilst also recognising that what one is doing is wrong than to tie oneself in such mental knots.
@@joaninha3484 you're basically forced to accept veganism as morally commendable when you give yourself up to rational. It really shows Alex has abandoned his irrational emotions to follow logic and reason.
@@s1lverbullet1234 A lot of people who were (and still are) atheist and actually listened to Alex and went vegan. I'm one such example.
I just have to say that world needs your kind of people. And I mean all of you above, That's all.
Love that so many were triggered by someone making a case for not slaughtering sentient beings needlessly. This is exactly what the show is for.
If you were in a house on fire and there was a child and a chicken who do you save?
@@jordanatkins4493 The child. My position is that the lives of non-human animals are more important than the sensory pleasure we get from exploiting them. I am certainly still speciesist- I value humans over other animals. However, the needless exploitation is, well, needless. The minimisation of suffering and exploitation is something you should be joining, not trying to poke holes in it with weak 'gotchas'.
@@jordanatkins4493 If you were in a supermarket and there were lentils, beans, legumes, veggies, fruits, meat alternatives, nuts, seeds, rice, etc, or some decaying animal flesh, which do you choose?
@@digipoke12345 I think you killed him..
@@dualhearts2035 Mmmmm, decaying animal flesh...
Ironic that people in the comments section listen to a podcast called Triggernometry and get this triggered by having their opinions challenged in the slightest.
is it really surprising that the type of people that seek out content based on presenting how emotionally struck people with the positions they don't like are in order to boost their self- worth and find this echo chamber of a chanel would lose their shit at the slightest approach to get their ox gored?
Or they just disagree. Disagreeing doesn't mean you're 'triggered'. Rationality Rules made a good job debunking his arguments in his new video: th-cam.com/video/rRHrOQXsIRg/w-d-xo.html
@@EbonyPope Debunking? :D Did you watch either video? Or are you just comparing the video titles?
@@nikokaapa Did you watch the video? He addresses the points Alex makes.
@@EbonyPope yes I did of course. He addresses it but hardly “debunks” anything
It's bizarre that there are barely any comments here that actually address anything said in the video that they disagree with.
The dislikes on here concern me. I suppose I don’t fit into the typical audience for this show. Anyway, this episode “triggered” me to look into veganism and I’m vegan now, so thank you!
We're being trolled at the moment, dislikes have nothing to do with the content
Triggernometry gotcha. Sorry to hear that cause cosmic skeptic is great
@@triggerpod Being trolled tells something as well, doesn't it? Excellent job guys!
No thank YOU! The less meat you eat the more there is for me! Thanks.
@@KhanivoreQniba your gratitude comes off as little bit performative
One of the primary reasons I went vegan 6 years ago, is it's logically air tight.
@@greyhawk32 look into the amount of rodents and other animals that are killed in order to protect crops
@@moesizlack8523 killing a animal thats being threat to your property is not the same as killing an animal thats not a threat to your property. So false analogy. If you want to debate veganism, then DM me in facebook.
facebook.com/govardhana.kailash
Its not airtight in practicality, where i live not only is veg way more expensive than it should be, vegan food is even more expensive and rare to find. Its the same issue of how unhealthy food is incredibly cheap, many people want to eat healthier but simply cant due to their living situation.
To prove im not just being counterive to your point, i believe in free range and personally i love vegan thai stir fry and curry and i would happily have it everyday except its 3x the price as lets say burger and chips in my area.
@@moesizlack8523 I have... and as it turns out - we feed crops to animals. So you’re actually responsible for more crop related deaths when you eat animals...
@@thenamescarter8279 so are you telling me your area doesn’t sell rice?... pasta?... frozen peas?... tinned beans!?... you realise they’re all vegan. You don’t have to eat expensive mock meats to be vegan... and chips (as you mentioned) are vegan by the way 👍 does an animal being “free range” justify the act of killing them?... I think the act of killing unnecessary is wrong, regardless of your treatment of that being prior to their slaughter. And often free range doesn’t mean what you think it does... I’d recommend looking up “free range exposed”...
Selective empathy
Never thought of it like that but it's so true.
if i wasn't already vegan the complete idiocy dripping all over this comment section from defensive meat eaters probably would have convinced me.
weird how defensive people get when this is brought up.
Tell me about it😂
So true
How do you think a heroin addict would react if you try and deprive him of his heroin? I'll give you an idea. th-cam.com/video/nxD7ashsWuw/w-d-xo.html
@@artistsanomalous7369 hahaha I didn't expect that one, but it's so true!
Want to take a minute to thank you for hosting different opinions and allowing us to see other sides of the discussion respectfully and kindly. You guys are doing an amazing job.
Alex is the hero the animals need and deserve
i could care less about animals, im vegan cause its heathier
@@justintimefordinner4902 you don't care at all about the animals? I always find that hard to believe when people say that.
@@eazyrat i mean yeah dont hunt for sport but at the same time, if you need a coat...
@@justintimefordinner4902 but you'd have a problem with hunting?
@@eazyrat hunting without reason
What a bunch of snowflakes in this comment section - oh, the young man has an argument and I don't agree with the conclusion - so I'll call him names and talk about bacon. If you believe his argument is mistaken, then say why. Don't be dogmatic or you'll end up being just like the SJWs and religious fundamentalists you claim to hate so much.
Bacon tho.
Vegan topic starts @ 27:48
thank you
Here's an external timestamped link for sharing.
th-cam.com/video/ePyQMZHAqCg/w-d-xo.html
Brilliant. The Vegan topic should be discussed in our society. It's time for this injustice to end.
"Injustice".
@@ga35am yeh the exploitation and abuse of animals is certainly an injustice, if you were in the animals position how would you view it?
@@justroberto5052 yeah the exploitation and abuse of plants is certainly an injustice, if you were in the plants position how would you view it? Stop with the jokes and be a reasonable vegan, instead of a preacher. Spare me of your non sense.
@@ga35am plants aren’t a sentient like animals are, they don’t feel pain, emotions or a subjective experience of reality. Also more plants are grown to feed the animals people eat... it’s clearly an injustice and you claiming I’m preaching nonsense isn’t helpful or even a counter argument to what I’ve said, it’s shows you have nothing but ad hominem. But yeh feel free to explain why gas chambering and throat slitting animals and containing them in abhorrent factory farmed conditions isn’t an injustice.
@@justroberto5052 who are you to say plants aren't sentient? Just because plants are no sentient like us, doesn't mean they don't have something like sentience going on. I even read yesterday a plant ativist saying a lot I didn't know. Anyway, non human aninals are definitely not sentient like us, but vegan preachers still want to equate the two sentiences. So why not equate plants too? Is this some kind of prejudice against non electrical biological processes?
About your accusation of Ad Hominem, learn and pass your learning to your vegan preachers friends: not every insult is an Ad Hominem. If you are dumb, don't try to analyse fallacies.
Gas chambering and throat slitting are ways of killing animals just like any other method. Humans have being doing this for millenia with no problems, just like other animals, without the judgement of dumb people. So spare me of your fallacy of appeal to emotion.
Alex dropping some logic bombs..great work!
Actually, it was pretty terrible. I've been teaching philosophy at the university for over 25 years. Alex's arguments are weak and he takes zero account of the myriad counterarguments. It is quite obvious that he has very little familiarity with the literature. I'm not saying that a case for ethical veganism can't be made. It's just that he doesn't make it very well.
Part of the problem is that he never actually debates a serious, bona fide philosopher. It's always TH-camrs and assorted hacks. But never an actual philosophy professor who knows this material and knows the arguments. Another part of the problem is that he really needs a lot more education in these subjects before going out in public and pontificating on them. Of course, it's a free country and he can do what he likes.
Aravis Tarkheena
Well, he had a discussion with Peter Singer on this topic last year. Quite an authority as far as this goes.
What literature would you suggest for counterarguments? Only one that comes to mind is Brett Hall‘s essay „Humans and other animals -
The ethics of eating meat“
Did not convince me tbh.
@@711Zephyr I haven't seen that one. Certainly qualifies. Of course, he agrees with Singer, so....
@@711Zephyr echo chamber
Aravis Tarkheena This is not a philosophy channel, he’s not gonna go into higher level philosophical counter arguments with concepts like social contracts and species normality
also, i think he’s p well read regarding the literature, he’s read Animal Liberation, In defense of animals, Eating Animals, the case for animal rights, and a few others
Hands down the best arguments for animals.
Anyone who consider themselves someone with a shred of intellectual and moral integrity needs to take on the issue of other animals. That is where you test your bravery, honesty and independent thinking skills.
I have friends who pretty arrogantly view themselves as intellectuals, yet once veganism even comes up slighly their integrity falls like a pile of cards, and it's quite dissapointing and shocking to see that in people you respect.
Suddently they blush, get defensive, resort to childlike escape routes, or to the weakest of fallacies. Or, they immaturely try to reinforce their (fragile) hard, manly identity by proclaiming how little they care, or how much they want to hurt animals.
The most shocking cases of ignorance, hypocracy and group-think is displayed in smart people when they defend maltreatment of innocent, vulnerable animals. That is what has shocked me most after giving these things serious thought myself, and obviously gone vegan. I've lost respect for so many people, and seen such bizzare, idiotic logic. Social pressure really does control even the proudest "thinker".
People willing to actually be morally consistent even when losing social points are VERY rare..
Absolutely, 100% agree. The amount of excuses is astounding.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet Why are you everywhere?
absolutely 100% DISagree. no one has to be vegan. its just not necessary. it is completely fine to eat meat. for the environment it is even better than soy.
and ethicaly i am way more glad to have a cow being kept safe and then killed fast, than having it possibly starve in the wild or being shred to pieces by wolfes ( remember. in the wilderness there are MUCH worse things than a quick death.)
@@Cloudmaster1511 Hello, thank's for being respectful, but you are making many fallacious claims here. Which is understandable, we live in a culture that reinforces animal exploitation with 100 different rationalizations, that can be hard to see the gaping holes in.
The environmental argument is for radical reduction, not for veganism. So in environemtal terms, there is no issue with consuming animals in very small ammounts, true. Environmentalists often implicitly only value the rest of nature because humans live in it, and "humans are the only ones that matter". But, animal products still require on average 16X more resources and emissions to produce, so even if people just eat a little bit, it's 1600% more harmful than their meal could have been. To chose cows milk when oat milk is right next to it in the store, is to choose maximal harm and destruction for your glass of milk, for example.
When it comes to veganism, using animals as means to satisfy aesthetic desires are as unacceptable as using say a black person as a slave. Why? Because there is no rational, relevant difference between animals and humans. What makes us morally valuable is exactly what we share between each other - subjectivity. I'm sure you wouldn't condone an industry that bred and killed humans. So why is it okay to do it to animals? The argument "but we are helping the africal slaves by giving them shelter, food and medicibe" was used 200 years ago to exploit human slaves. I'd be very wary of using that to justify exploitation today.
You are also setting up a black and white phallacy. A false dicotomy. We don't stand between the two options:
- Breed millions of animals, give them "decent" lives, but then steal everything from them because their dead bodies taste nice.
Or
- Let cows and all the others loose to be killed in brutal ways by predators or starvation.
There are other options, like not breeding those millions of animals into life in the first place. In the wild, there wouldn't be as many individuals, and they would at least have a chance to escape and to fulfill their inherent nature. Animal agriculture, no matter how picturesque and ideal - HAS TO foricly breed, genetically manipulate, mutilate and separate the animals from their own interests. If you think not, it demonstrates that you know very very little about farming in general, or are dishonest. Animal agriculture would be extremely expensive, even more resource intensive and practically inoperable if we were to respect all the interests of the animals (exept their life, clearly, as we were plotting to kill them all along.)
Besides, someone else (wild predators/nature) causing more suffering on the individual level does not justify us upholding a huge industry that also causes suffering and murder. There are vegans working to reduce suffering in the wild, true. Vegans seem to be the only ones seriously concerned with animal suffering in the first place. But instead of predating "kinder" (a naive wish, in the first place) than wild predators, we should focus on not predating at all. After all, wild predators HAVE to predate, making their behaviour amoral. While humans CHOOSE to predate, to the detriment of billions of animals, our own health and the environment, making our case a moral one, in which we deliberately choose to cause more suffering than we could have.
@@fromeveryting29 oh hey :D
correct me if i'm wrong but
"You are also setting up a black and white phallacy" isn't that, what you just did?
-we could live vegan with soy n stuff
-if you dont, every animal is forcebred, tortured and then stolen of everything they have.
no it is not like that? there are good, recommendable farms, where they live a good n happy life and are only then harvested.
also what about wild animal meat? if i eat a Deer is it also force bred?...
you accuse me of using statements that are tailored by society (which they arent. they are real first hand experience.) but yourself you use all the copy/paste veganism statements that are getting dull.
i try to not offend you but you are really offending me...
I used to be into Sadism, Necrophilia & Bestiality but I decided to give it all up when I realised I was just flogging a dead horse.
🤣🤣
That’s a fantastic joke.
@@alanheyes694 Who's joking?
@@aussiedonaldduck2854 What's wrong with beating a dead horse?... it can't get it up?
Was that horse "duffle coat supreme" or "rooting king" ?...
Damn the dislikes really show that this reached a lot of people it needed to reach. It's exactly what this show is about: to challenge people's beliefs. Nice episode!
dislikes?
@@SolitaryReaper666 so many comments about the ratio too ffs, where was the need youtube
Na, its just that he was a boring self righteous twat.
Judging by the comment section it seems that everyone is now so obsessed with identity politics that they have lost interest in almost anything else.
This discussion is about atheism/religion and vegan diets.
I don't understand why this video has so many dislikes
cognitive dissonance
@@dualhearts2035 almost fascinating, right?
We're one of the rare comments they undig in the future that will have been against this in the 2020s.
@@nicholaswiedman1409 what about the efficiency of eating plants directly, rather than feeding beasts for their whole lives, and then eating them?
@@nicholaswiedman1409 hence my new restaurant. KFD. Kentucky fried dog.
Hello and welcome to the carnist gymnastic show. As usual they’ll be relying on on their standard moves and as usual their supporters will not care, they’ll just keep on cheering and supporting. Like always, you can look forward to such classics as “nature tho”, “lions tho”, “b12 tho” and all your other favourites.
Come back next week for a repeat of the same....no change is sexy.
You left out "plants tho"!! Tsk, tsk - no cliche anti-vegan arguments bingo for you 😉
I call it "carnist bingo hour"
It's very hard to argue against Alex's reasoning.
Apparently not able to convince himself though, as he is no longer vegan.
this like/dislike ratio dismantles the whole premis of this chanel and is such an self-own. holy shit.
For real 😂 this crowd will ridicule others for believing that trans people exist, but when someone tells them 'hey let's not torture and abuse animals so we can eat a bacon sandwich' then that's too far
It's 'free speech and fact-based dialogue, until you disagree with me'
Konstantin, you are wrong....51 years old, a 'hardened' meat eater who loved a glass of milk with bar of milk chocolate.....I've heard Alex differently to anyone who has gone before him. I am now vegan and feel not only physically 100% better for it but morally and ethically cleaner. If Alex convinced me I feel certain he will convince others.
Good to hear! Now spread it around because we have so much work to do. Your health improved because once you save the animals, you end up saving yourself.
This young man is absolutely amazing and I'm looking forward to reading the books he will write in his lifetime.
Carnists need to grow up and come to terms with the consequences of their actions.
Since we don't need animal products to survive we can choose to cause unnecessary suffering or not cause unnecessary suffering.
Not causing unnecessary suffering is as simple as choosing something else on the menu or buying something else in the supermarket.
Alex. Holy shit. Sharp as a nail.
I'm one step away from worshipping Alex.
I disagree about the health benefits - there's a lot of good research showing a whole foods plant based diet is one of the healthiest diets we can adopt, but agree this is additional rather than central to the argument for veganism!
Such a great case for veganism. I'm in awe.
Veganism for the win ❤️
He really ran a master class in this one
@@NoInjusticeLastsForever WHY ARE YOU EVERYWHERE GO AWAY!
@@astromitediscontinued7627 Haha must be doing something right then. 😅
@@NoInjusticeLastsForever Veganism is a cult. Stop spreading your propaganda.
"The baseline of ethical conduct is to try to eliminate unnecessary suffering, " It really is as simple as that.
Veganism is a growing exponentially, which can only be a good thing,
Literally everything Alex said makes sense... I wonder if anyone could bring a substantial counter-argument without reverting to trolling and writing the same words over and over again in caps... Hmm...
I'm betting on no. Be prepared to pay up.
@Some Monsters He has not taken account of economics. What an unrealistic berk! Most people are in no position to live in this way. Oh and time. Unless you want to eat the nasty processed 'vegan' options (like the plastic 'cheese') which are full of carcinogenic chemicals, you will have to spend a great deal of time considering your diet and nutrition. Supplements are a con and are expensive. We DO have the choice to buy free-range eggs and chicken. And they do exist. He is a bourgeois boy who does not live in the real world. His litany of animal mistreatment is designed to guilt-trip heretic meat eaters. Factory farms are concentration camps for animals? A creepy extremist.
@@knickertwistcopperby6066 how are they not concentration camps for animals? They are enslaved and killed before their natural death.
You think eating loads of cow cheese is good for you then? You don't have to eat cheese you know. It's called learning to cook and having a varied diet. It's not hard once you learn what you should be eating. It's also cheaper if you stay away from fake meat options
@@knickertwistcopperby6066 You're acting like going vegan would be wildly more expensive and complicated than taking care of your diet and body in the other standard ways.
Hey, Vegan here, there's no need to eat or buy vegan cheeses, mostly because they are not good, there's also no need to buy fake meats, some of them are quite good, like those new burgers (I eat them once in a while, I cook them myself), and the cheapest foods in most of the western world are : beans, grains, soy and rice.
The same chemicals that are in Vegan cheese are also in "normal cheese".
Same thing for those fake meats, the same chemicals are in "real meat" as well.
If you make the argument that plants are GMO or Sprayed with chemicals, the same plants (soy, peas, grains) that are used to make veggie burgers are also fed back to animals, animals who are also injected and supplemented with vitamins, like B12 and D.
Also animals are killed in soy farms, 70-80% of soy and grains are fed back to animals in factory farms.
The Kid in the video himself talked about this in the video.
Watch Dominion
th-cam.com/video/LQRAfJyEsko/w-d-xo.html
Just a quick note on iron - legumes (beans, lentils... and many nuts) are also high in iron.
Another quick note on iron. The absorption rate of the iron form found in plants goes significantly up when combined with vitamin C. Just a squish of lemon for example.
This was very interesting and the vegan arguments were well made and thought provoking.
Became vegan because of his video on cognitive dissonance.
Me too man. A year ago, that video was the one that did it, finally. At that point, I decided to let go of the defense mechanism and start being emotionally affected by all of it. And just like that, I wasn't able to buy animal products at the super market.
Me three!
Killing is not kindness, whether done by a small or large slave holder. All animals deserve a life free from bondage.
The critical thinking I learned from channels like Cosmic Skeptic and the Atheist Experience are what let me to go vegan and study to fight climate change.
Preach 👏
We needed someone like CosmicSkeptic to stand up for animals.
How can anybody dislike this or argue against it? Vegan or not does not matter. He is not talking about opinions he is telling facts. Its like arguing against the existence of cars. "Its unnatural to not use your legs and use cars. I dont believe in cars!" jesus
Cos people don't like facts, and don't like feeling like they are the bad guys, doin somethin wrong, so they won't accept that eating meat is wrong and continue doin so. Some make random excuses because subconsciously they are scared to change.
Why You Should Go Vegan:
www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/a2936b/why_you_should_go_vegan_ultimate_facts_and/
Indeed an eye-opener.....the lion has to do it.....but u dont have to.....spot on🔥🔥🔥🔥
*Create a Better World by......GOING and Living VEGAN*
Living vegan =/= a diet
@Raghav rob Living Vegan isn't a diet.
You clearly don't understand what veganism actually is, sweetie.
@Raghav rob Clearly you are clueless about what veganism actually is. 🙄 🙄 🙄
@Athos Aramis Do you try very hard to come across like an utter dolt or does that come naturally to you? 🤔
I never would have thought I would become a vegetarian, and I still am not there. But I do eat MOSTLY plants for a diet, and I haven't lost any muscle - I have however lost a grip of visceral fat and my little belly. I spent 5 years raising, slaughtering and eating my own animals. It helped me become much more on the side of vegetarianism. I love animals. I always have. At some point, it became too hard to slaughter and kill them. Do what you want, but please pay attention to the lives of animals at CFAOs and industrial farms.
Well done Alex, superb.
I even have popcorn! The day is saved!
In the comment: Anti-PC/anti-vegan bros meet mainstream atheist/secular humanist ideas and are triggered.
There's a Chinese proverb that springs to mind: To be uncertain is to be uncomfortable, but to be certain is to be ridiculous.
Never heard that before, but I like it!
Me likes!
"The smart man knows he knows nothing". Who said that?
To not like a wisdom seed is as one cutting off his finger - unknown
That really doesn't vibe with the current Chinese administration
Eating meat is one of the moral arguments that when pressed always comes down to… ‘well’ I just like it’ - it’s actually the reason I went vegan, I read a book by Peter singer and could not reason myself out of the position, have bebe a vegan for 4 years now. You literally cannot say that eating meat is moral therefore you should not do it… even if you don’t care about the animals, do it for the planet or if you’re interested moral ethics at all
Blows my mind how difficult of a topic this is for people to grasp. Just don't enslave, exploit or slaughter other sentient beings in the absence of survival necessity. Feels like ethics 101 after you think about it for a bit
Jesus he absolutely shredded the two guys on religion.
Ironically Alex is no longer vegan.
I gained so many IQ points listening to this guy then destroyed them again trying to comprehend it all.
You should check out his channel ;)
Fuck yeah, Cosmic Skeptic is awesome! Seems this episode triggered your audience nicely
It was a good discussion but why so much hate on the comments section?
“But-but-but-but lions!”
1300 people are sour because they can't find any good counter arguments to what Alex has said.
Amazing job, Alex! And thanks Konstantin and Francis for having him on :)
Alex is such a great debater. Whichever side you're going to fall on his arguments are still irrefutable. Great listening.
Oh really? How about applying his moral arguements on abortion? Which side do you stand? He seemed a have allude to it in this interview about not wanting a child to tortured which suggests to me he MIGHT be against abortion with the moral standpoint he holds for veganism, but these two numbnuts did not have the wit to put such inquiry to him in this interview. Epic fail...
@@scdobserver835 abortions are performed very early, before the potential life is anywhere near conscious, or capable of pain. Any abortion outside of that window is illegal, and not supported by almost all countries.
I had no idea about the impregnation of dairy cows. It makes sense, ofc. I just kind of assumed that they just always produce milk for some reason.
By far the best case for veganism out there. I truly think the argument is impenetrable.
Veganism discussion starts at 30:25. But the beginning is absolutely worth a listen as well.
Excellent interview with Alex, basically stop being a hypocrite and go vegan 💚
And Rome burns.
Sad little bitch
Gerry Wallington
You get about a bit Gerry, are you the channels 'beta' bouncer?
This is my first video from the channel as a fan from Alex but I have to say the back and forth is pretty lame between the interviewers and Alex. So many times throughout the veganism discussion Alex lays out a perfectly logical argument and their response is
"Hmm..." *rotate to next defense of carnism*
Not very meaningful when you can't even acknowledge the hypocrisy laid out so clearly right in front of you before you blindly switch to your next best refutation. Kindof what I was expecting but still very frustrating.
Also, the guy in the blue shirt defining "people who defend free speech are seen as right wing"
wow... how disingenuous is that??
Damn it keeps getting worse huh, "well, soy is disgusting" Good lord.
True.
Great to see a comment section full of replies to vegans where they make it absolutely clear they haven't even watched the video. Thinking they've achieved a gotcha by pointing out agricultural farming accidentally kills animals like mice and rats; addressed in the video.
I tried to go vegan but then 5 minutes into it I went out for a walk and accidentally stepped on an ant. At that point it became clear how futile veganism is since just by existing we harm living things. So I said F it and bought a double cheeseburger to celebrate.
@@sisypheanexistence8955 I tried to stop torturing dogs but then 5 minutes into it I went out for a walk and accidentally stepped on an ant. At that point it became clear how futile trying to stop torturing dogs is since just by existing we harm living things. So I said F it and brought home two new-born pups to celebrate.
You've literally proven my point about anti-vegans showing that they haven't watched the video; the point of veganism is to reduce the suffering we cause in the world, not to deny that ANY living thing living within an ecosystem causes harm. It is just that we cause such unnecessary harm on such an industrial, avoidable level that it is sickening. You ACCIDENTALLY stepping on one ant is not equivalent to the suffering caused by PURPOSEFULLY imprisoning and mistreating feeling beings just for a double cheese burger.
You know your reasoning is flawed. You wouldn't apply it to any other situation of this comparable scale.
It was a silly joke. I'm a vegan myself.
Then again I had a doctor (an oncologist no less) who was aghast that I didn't eat eggs inform me that I wasn't killing anything by eating a near nutritionally complete food and insisted that eating eggs was only as unethical as masturbating and killing sperm. She was serious. Like she was legitimately concerned that I may not have realised eggs available for purchase don't contain a living creature and therefore there was no moral dilemma in her book.
@@sisypheanexistence8955 I'm sorry, but it goes to show how ridiculous anti-vegan arguments are that they are completely indistinguishable from satire. I've literally seen arguments like that be made.
@@MrMyers758 If you were eating grass-fed beef you'd be creating less deaths. Pesticides and combine harvesters kill insects, do insects not matter to you? What about the innocent mouses that you kill? Stupid vegan hypocrite.
Cosmic Skeptic you are so incredibly intelligent. Love this video
I stopped referring to myself as an atheist for exactly the mis representations Alex talks about. I was on holiday once sat at a group table with other guests and one of them was a middle aged Catholic Canadian man who was talking about a group of atheists who gatecrashed a religious festival in Canada and caused havoc. After the anecdote, he gave me an aggressive pat on the back and said "Those were your buddies." I explained to him that if I was to get a paid day off work, then I'm all for religious festivals taking place, but it doesn't mean that I would have to attend it. This is my identity as an atheist.
I was bored and searched 'Alex Vegan' on TH-cam, found a nice new channel for me
What happened to the like-to-dislike ratio?
The internet hates veganism bro.
@@jedstpeter unfortunately that is true.
Anyone else a little thrown off by the joke about a feminist wet dream.... Feminism is the equality of people. I am sure they know this, but these kinds of jokes spread the wrong message entirely.
Think it was just a joke about what feminism has become with the small percentage of radicals
Great job, Alex.
He's so lovely and smart. Long time fan here
Most of the dislikes because they thought it would be the vegans getting triggered. Only for the meat eaters to be.
It's actually hilarious.
Has anyone got a counter-argument against what he says in this video? Just strolled through the CS and can't find nafink bruv
I couldn’t find one, now I’m vegan
bacon
PS: I am not serious, i am vegan.
Undeniable logic. Thanks for representing veganism, Alex!
Utterly fascinating... I'm seriously reflecting on how I see meat consumption (I'm a middle aged, non eco warrior average guy).
If you'd like some reccomendations for further information, Alex Oconnor has a few more videos on it and earthling ed has a channel dedicated to it. Good luck:)
Cheers man I've since done that. Great advice.
Can we have "the moral case against vegans banging on about veganism all the time" next?
mutantdog you know you don’t have to watch it right?
It is there already - veganism is treated as a religion in UK law, so you can treat it in the same way - irrational ideological cult
David Cooks, religions are based on faith and the supernatural, veganism is based on the moral code that most of us has; it’s wrong to harm innocent beings if there’s no need to do that. The IPCC even admits that it reduces a ton our GHG (page 77), and the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics reaffirms that a proper vegan diet is healthful and has benefits. www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2019/08/2f.-Chapter-5_FINAL.pdf
I love this so much. A voice of reason.
He’s undoubtedly brilliant as one would expect been the product of an Oxford university education and immersing himself in the canonical books of western civilisation where he is exalts the tenets of human reasoning, empiricism and logic
I was a strict vegan for almost 10 yrs. Now, I eat a little fish and certified humane eggs. He certainly made a lot of good arguments for veganism. Maybe I should go back. I mostly incorporated the little I did because I was having trouble with B12 and gaining muscle, despite working out 6 days a week.
why so many dislikes?
Because people are illogical for the most part. Most people can't digest new truths directly. They become reactive before they accept the validity of the argument - and some remain stubborn and ignorant their whole lives.
He offended their dogmatic beliefs.
This was such an interesting and respectful conversation, but what's up with all the dislikes and what are these comments?.. what in the world
43:49 the silence after that was *deafening*
Francis looks like he got that shirt from the bottom of the washing basket 😂
751 down votes 😂
The episode hasnt even come out yet and the like/dislike ratio is already 2/11. C'mon people.
They want demographics debate, not bunnies..
Excellent 👏🏽. Cosmic skeptic is fantastic
During the discussion about atheism. He says that when we realize there is nothing after death, we would work harder to do more.
Isn’t that even a horrible way to live? Like this life is shitty enough, I know I will die. I more than likely will not have any other experience except this life. But why do I need to do things out of the fear of death? It’s almost very similar to religion. You basically do more stuff to ignore the fact that you die. I’d dare to say thats a bit of a psychotic way to live.
Like the way I look at it is, I will live, I will die. I will try to accomplish what I desire. But if I don’t, then it doesn’t really matter. Like at the end of the day, if I die and I have no experience of anything after that, it’s basically like I never had an experience at all. And I don’t mean that in a negative way. I mean that in the way that it should take pressure off. It should relieve stress to know that, when I die, I will have no worries of the past, I will have nothing. I will not be. My thoughts/memories of all the awful things life makes us experience will be gone. So there is no shame in living any kind of life. Just be respectful to others on your journey, thats it.
Even in our current law we do not know what to do about animals.
On one side you can slit their throat, let them bleed and put them on the grill and most people will cheer you on and on the other(pets) you will be arrested doing the same.
So a bit more consistency would be nice.
And after that getting rid of publicly funding this industry so that people truly spend their money how they want to and not pay for the burger someone else is eating.
Very nice that Austin Powers is a youtuber now.
Oh, behave!
Do I make you 'orny? Do I?
Athens average life span of a wild rabbit is less than 18 months, the die from starvation, they die of disease, and they are the bottom of the food chain and have many predator's. Rabbits in captivity can live over 20 years in captivity. Is it cruel to keep a rabbit as a pet?
That's a good question, from what I've heard Alex would not be against.
Of course not, but who argued that it was?
@@fannymunchkin2638 point I'm making is about the animals we keep for food wool milk and leather. Is it better to live for 2 years healthy well fed or not at all?
@@judeoko not remotely the same thing. Search up what farms actually look like.
Why so many dislikes? I think Alex did great!
We have some trolls here at the moment. Just ignore them. They are nothing to do with Alex and nothing to do with us either.
Thank god he is nowhere near public policy. Can you imagine a world run by people like this?
Ahhhh man... He's just a boy. Have him back in 10 years i guarantee he will have changed his mind on some of this.
@@briantex2031 Too many to list, over 10 years I have gained a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience that has changed my views on things.
Im sure you are in the same boat, let's face it, anyone who hasn't grown/changed their view on things over 10 years is stuck in a stagnant desert going nowhere.
He's a philosophy student not a political advocate, and he's more knowledgeable than average adults and even average elders. He's also a skillful debater and met several public figures who are usually older. He's intellectually honest and isn't necessarily alarming or rigid as you think. The problem is that he's naive in some ways, and can be too abstract in his points.
I doubt he'll change his beliefs but I think he'll advance more articulations and arguments about his beliefs. He changed his mind on many things since I've been watching his videos on his own channel for years but he didn't change his beliefs. His channel is called "Cosmicskeptic."
As always lefty vegan who is pro abortion and against eating meat. Is fishing also bad for the climate? Can we hunt? just curious. Or are for ex wild boar keep exploding in population because we have no wolfs for bears left in most forest?!
@@EgoShredder their vegan wife can have 3 abortions but you cant have that fish and chip tonight- thats "offensive" to her.
Hunting is complicated because in some cases it can reduce the extinction of some species.
Fishing can be bad, as it can be overdone, and severely alter the food chain, thus causing disaster in that ecosystem. With more pescatarians (as we see them spreading), this will worsen.
The argument of fish suffering is different however. As a biologist who has read up on this for the past few months; fishes' capacity to suffer is hotly debated. For example, some species have the correct type of nerves, but all fish lack crucial areas of their brain to process it. They do react to painful stimuli, but we're not sure what it feels like. Many vegans suggest that's it's better to be safe than sorry, so take that as you will.
@@s1lverbullet1234 what about boars, wild boars that we have hunted in sweden for atleast 4000+ years which is documented in hällristningar and keep exploading in population because we got rid of all the predators(wolfs/bears etc)
@@quezcatol vildsvin och människor i Sverige har funnits tillsammans i århundraden. Vi är deras rovdjur nu. De behöver oss för "population control" (förlåt, min Svenska är inte mycket god, men jag lära mig!).
@@s1lverbullet1234 Ingen fara! Nej tusentals, inte århundraden. I norrköping finns det bilder på svenskar som jagade vildsvin daterade till 3800 år sedan.
Is this prerecorded, it sure looks like it
Yes, it was. The live chat was because it was a premiere, not a live stream.
Fascinating talk
Great interview. Makes so much sense.
As Saki has it: “You can't expect the fatted calf to share the enthusiasm of the angels over the prodigal's return.”
th-cam.com/video/LQRAfJyEsko/w-d-xo.html
Why does this video have so many dislikes?
I thought people come here to hear differing opinions.
56:56 He sounds like the guy from ahoy (the weapon/gaming channel)