To speak candidly in the open takes courage. Thank you Johnny and Caleb for your courageous work. Good that Lagard was willing to add to a great effort. Others should be willing.
Inconsistency thy name is------you fill in the blank. When you add a name, you will see the situation "we" (Churches of Christ of all flavors) find ourselves in. Praying the Lord will help us deal with these issues. God Bless the brotherhood. Great interview!!
Great one! Radical Restoration is a great, thought provoking experience for anyone who loves the Gospel and the important Reformation heritage of the churches of Christ and Christian churches.
@studiodemichel You should consider Finny's book "King Jesus claims his church." He us also an excellent expository teach. His messages and others can be found at Followers of the Way Boston.
I had not heard of LaGard Smith prior to this video, but I strongly enjoy it. He calls it as it is. I find his position on "located ministers" similar to that of Daniel Sommer. When Steve Wolfgang talked about Daniel Sommer, it never came up that Sommer opposed clergy as strongly as he did institutions. Sommer developed hundrered of "Mutual Edification" Churches of Christ throughout the midwest (largely through the pages of his paper Apostolic Review). To this day, they still have contempt for the located preacher but cling to buildings, pews, pulpits, and hymn books. My point is LaGards point... they think they're completely restored, but they're not, just like the main line thinks it's completely restored, but it isn't either.
Yes. If we look at the history of the Old Testament "church" we see that it had a history of always being in states of rebellion, reformation or restoration. Why would we think the New Testament church wouldn't have a similar history? They killed Old Testament prophets and prosecuted church reformers, we just isolate ours.
I think the ‘heartbeat’ of what LaGard is saying is it’s about the attitude of the Christian. If so, then I understand him. Also, at the 50min mark he mentions his issues with Preaching Schools. I generally agree with him. My personal issue with P.Schools is they pretty much teach ‘proof-texting’. (Tell everyone what you believe then grab a Strong’s and rodeo your way thru Scriptures and prove your right) All of the P.Schools preachers I’ve meant not have been impressive to me.
@vinson6337 it can be....the issue with proof-texting is you have to start with a position. Exegesis is very difficult if you do so. If you're teaching the flock to do so then what happens if they start with a unbiblical position?
@@MrCaza7096 As long as the proof texting holds to the context (the accurate teaching of the message) then it should be faith building by showing more proof through confirmation. Seriously, I’ve never considered honest proof texting to be anything different than what Jesus did or any of His disciples. I guess I should have asked “is honest proof texting bad”. That would’ve made more sense.
@vinson6337 the difference is Jesus didn't start with a position. He either used what the people already knew or thought they knew. “You have heard that it was said to those of old....Matt 5. Or he used their questions. Also... did he literally jump all over scripture for a single point? Or a single passage for that point and explain it.?
@ Yes, Jesus quoted multiple different scriptures during one sermon. During his sermon on the mount (Mt 5-7) he quoted from… 1) Exodus 20:14: A commandment about adultery 2) Deuteronomy 5:18: A commandment about adultery 3) Deuteronomy 24:1: A commandment about divorce 4) Numbers 30:2: A commandment about swearing falsely 5) Exodus 21:23-25: A commandment about "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth" Also in Mt 21:42-44 He is quoting Psalm 188:22-23, and in John 15:25 He is quoting Ps 35:19 and Ps 69:4. Seriously, basically all the sermons in the Bible refer to other scriptures, either old or new testament.
The reason the early church met at homes was they feared persecution. The jewish christians had already been accustomed to going to temple and synagogue to meet for worship. Gentile christians met at temples to worship before they obeyed the gospel as well. So meeting at a building other than someones home wasnt foreign to them. Meeting at someones home has nothing to do with restoration however when persecution comes we may once again decide to meet in secret, China anyone? Remember covid anyone??
What elders and preachers did with "virtual worship" during covid was the church cowering to avoid the perfection. I did not hear people calling for "house assembly" during covid. Rather, I saw people just not assembling for two years. They went everywhere except "to church."
@@calebrobertson9589 So true brother. May we never see persecution in our lifetime but if it comes I will stand with all of you. Thank you for your labor in the Lord. Peace be with you.
Comment on transcript time stamp 1:07:01-1:07:21. Wow! So Baptist may have chance. Hallelujah! Oh no wait, let me make sure, Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Yep it’s still there. I never thought I would hear such things from these brothers. You guys have been such encouragement over the years, but now. I really don’t know what to say ,except. What does the Bible say, Brethren you can know God’s judgement. You don’t have to wait till the pearly gates. He sent his Holy Spirit to the Apostles to convict the world of sin, righteousness and of judgement. John 16:8-13 We have that word of conviction and the remedy. It’s the New Testament ,a covenant God’s not going to break. Your taking Romans 2 completely out of it’s context, and twisting it. Paul is trying to prove to Jews, That they have sinned and have fallen short as well as the gentiles in chapter 1. Paul is trying to show that both Jew and gentile can come to Christ. How by obeying the gospel. God’s judgement is just. Something Christ said about his judgement, he said his word will judge us at the last day. In his word that will judge us he said Matthew 7: 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH THEM I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH them NOT shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. I hope guys will take another look at the scripture and hold to that not to a presumption.
I doubt the church you are attending has any fruit. Oh, but we don't know anything about you except you are ready to accuse us. I don't ever remember any encouragement coming from you, BTW. God has been our refuge and mighty tower. I am pretty sure no Baptist will ever say that I said they had a chance? I will certainly affirm " persons baptized under the influence of members of the church of Christ are some very ungodly folk." Hardly any of these folk will a lift a finger to help us in the evangelistic efforts on the eastern seaboard. In my defense will be over a dozen Sectarian pastors whom I have taught.
All people have to do is love God and your neighbor, that's it. Christ fulfilled all scriptures. He reconciled man back to God, finishing the work God set before him. 1 cor 13:8-13 tells us the only thing left after that which is perfect comes, is Love. No more preaching, which requires special revelation (miraculous knowledge) from the Holy Spirit, which sent preachers to preach ( how can they preach unless they were sent), no more miraculous gifts, no more tongues, just love. Eph 4:11-15 states the same. The scripture commands YOU TO STUDY TO SHOW THYSELF APPROVED. Learn to walk in the spirit, which is walking in love, which is walking in God's will, which is to love.
Regarding Evolution, I meet a Dr of pain with a doctorate as a physicists named Kenneth Willeford. He wrote a book title: "All or None" in which he used modern scientific journal to prove every part of the theory of evolution wrong. It is a very unique study and it destroys any belief anyone wants to hold in evolution.
Why can't we stick to the Text? It's all there--all we need for life and godliness. FYI, I'd love to move to Edinburgh to get away from the guns-in-pews crowd. Via 'net research and then youtube viewings I've found a sticks-to-the-Text congregation I'd attend. It isn't left or right. It's do you stick to Scripture or not? I bailed from an entertainment congregation years ago (and this was before they went to instruments and had people on the platform with microphones) and felt much better when I started going to a sticks-to-the-Text congregation.
There’s nothing but entertainment congregations in my area. Both my husband and I struggle as fairly new Christians and want to find a congregation that sticks to the Scriptures. It’s so difficult, considering some unique circumstances we’re dealing with.
To speak candidly in the open takes courage. Thank you Johnny and Caleb for your courageous work. Good that Lagard was willing to add to a great effort. Others should be willing.
Inconsistency thy name is------you fill in the blank. When you add a name, you will see the situation "we" (Churches of Christ of all flavors) find ourselves in. Praying the Lord will help us deal with these issues. God Bless the brotherhood. Great interview!!
Debates helped me
Great one! Radical Restoration is a great, thought provoking experience for anyone who loves the Gospel and the important Reformation heritage of the churches of Christ and Christian churches.
where can you find his books?
@@herbertmitchell405 - Ebay, Thriftbooks, and Amazon.
Though a long presentation, listeners won’t doze off like Eutychus towards midnight. Excellent! Thanks to all involved for sharing this interview.
The best interview yet, in my opinion.
I’d like to hear LaGard’s or Caleb’s thoughts on Tom Wadsworth’s teaching concerning early church assembly.
If Caleb can get an interview with Tom it would be great to see.
Yes I'd be interested in that too
Tom's work is just as challenging to mainline Protestants as Legard's is to the churches of Christ!
I've learned more sprititually from a lawyer (David Bercot), an Engineer (Chuck Pike) and a MD (Finny Kuruvilla) than any pulpit minister.
I am currently reading Bercot's A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs.
@studiodemichel You should consider Finny's book "King Jesus claims his church." He us also an excellent expository teach. His messages and others can be found at Followers of the Way Boston.
Wait Florida college won’t let LaGard Smith come and speak but they let Keith Lancaster come and speak?
Very interesting.
I had not heard of LaGard Smith prior to this video, but I strongly enjoy it. He calls it as it is. I find his position on "located ministers" similar to that of Daniel Sommer. When Steve Wolfgang talked about Daniel Sommer, it never came up that Sommer opposed clergy as strongly as he did institutions. Sommer developed hundrered of "Mutual Edification" Churches of Christ throughout the midwest (largely through the pages of his paper Apostolic Review). To this day, they still have contempt for the located preacher but cling to buildings, pews, pulpits, and hymn books. My point is LaGards point... they think they're completely restored, but they're not, just like the main line thinks it's completely restored, but it isn't either.
Yes. If we look at the history of the Old Testament "church" we see that it had a history of always being in states of rebellion, reformation or restoration. Why would we think the New Testament church wouldn't have a similar history? They killed Old Testament prophets and prosecuted church reformers, we just isolate ours.
I think the ‘heartbeat’ of what LaGard is saying is it’s about the attitude of the Christian. If so, then I understand him.
Also, at the 50min mark he mentions his issues with Preaching Schools. I generally agree with him. My personal issue with P.Schools is they pretty much teach ‘proof-texting’. (Tell everyone what you believe then grab a Strong’s and rodeo your way thru Scriptures and prove your right)
All of the P.Schools preachers I’ve meant not have been impressive to me.
Is proof texting wrong?
@vinson6337 it can be....the issue with proof-texting is you have to start with a position. Exegesis is very difficult if you do so.
If you're teaching the flock to do so then what happens if they start with a unbiblical position?
@@MrCaza7096
As long as the proof texting holds to the context (the accurate teaching of the message) then it should be faith building by showing more proof through confirmation.
Seriously, I’ve never considered honest proof texting to be anything different than what Jesus did or any of His disciples.
I guess I should have asked “is honest proof texting bad”. That would’ve made more sense.
@vinson6337 the difference is Jesus didn't start with a position. He either used what the people already knew or thought they knew. “You have heard that it was said to those of old....Matt 5. Or he used their questions.
Also... did he literally jump all over scripture for a single point? Or a single passage for that point and explain it.?
@
Yes, Jesus quoted multiple different scriptures during one sermon.
During his sermon on the mount (Mt 5-7) he quoted from…
1) Exodus 20:14: A commandment about adultery
2) Deuteronomy 5:18: A commandment about adultery
3) Deuteronomy 24:1: A commandment about divorce
4) Numbers 30:2: A commandment about swearing falsely
5) Exodus 21:23-25: A commandment about "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"
Also in Mt 21:42-44 He is quoting Psalm 188:22-23, and in John 15:25 He is quoting Ps 35:19 and Ps 69:4.
Seriously, basically all the sermons in the Bible refer to other scriptures, either old or new testament.
The reason the early church met at homes was they feared persecution. The jewish christians had already been accustomed to going to temple and synagogue to meet for worship. Gentile christians met at temples to worship before they obeyed the gospel as well. So meeting at a building other than someones home wasnt foreign to them. Meeting at someones home has nothing to do with restoration however when persecution comes we may once again decide to meet in secret, China anyone? Remember covid anyone??
What elders and preachers did with "virtual worship" during covid was the church cowering to avoid the perfection. I did not hear people calling for "house assembly" during covid. Rather, I saw people just not assembling for two years. They went everywhere except "to church."
@@calebrobertson9589 So true brother. May we never see persecution in our lifetime but if it comes I will stand with all of you. Thank you for your labor in the Lord. Peace be with you.
Comment on transcript time stamp 1:07:01-1:07:21. Wow! So Baptist may have chance. Hallelujah! Oh no wait, let me make sure, Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Yep it’s still there. I never thought I would hear such things from these brothers. You guys have been such encouragement over the years, but now. I really don’t know what to say ,except. What does the Bible say, Brethren you can know God’s judgement. You don’t have to wait till the pearly gates. He sent his Holy Spirit to the Apostles to convict the world of sin, righteousness and of judgement. John 16:8-13 We have that word of conviction and the remedy. It’s the New Testament ,a covenant God’s not going to break. Your taking Romans 2 completely out of it’s context, and twisting it. Paul is trying to prove to Jews, That they have sinned and have fallen short as well as the gentiles in chapter 1. Paul is trying to show that both Jew and gentile can come to Christ. How by obeying the gospel. God’s judgement is just. Something Christ said about his judgement, he said his word will judge us at the last day. In his word that will judge us he said Matthew 7: 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH THEM I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH them NOT shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
I hope guys will take another look at the scripture and hold to that not to a presumption.
I doubt the church you are attending has any fruit. Oh, but we don't know anything about you except you are ready to accuse us.
I don't ever remember any encouragement coming from you, BTW.
God has been our refuge and mighty tower.
I am pretty sure no Baptist will ever say that I said they had a chance?
I will certainly affirm " persons baptized under the influence of members of the church of Christ are some very ungodly folk."
Hardly any of these folk will a lift a finger to help us in the evangelistic efforts on the eastern seaboard.
In my defense will be over a dozen Sectarian pastors whom I have taught.
All people have to do is love God and your neighbor, that's it. Christ fulfilled all scriptures. He reconciled man back to God, finishing the work God set before him. 1 cor 13:8-13 tells us the only thing left after that which is perfect comes, is Love. No more preaching, which requires special revelation (miraculous knowledge) from the Holy Spirit, which sent preachers to preach ( how can they preach unless they were sent), no more miraculous gifts, no more tongues, just love. Eph 4:11-15 states the same. The scripture commands YOU TO STUDY TO SHOW THYSELF APPROVED. Learn to walk in the spirit, which is walking in love, which is walking in God's will, which is to love.
Regarding Evolution, I meet a Dr of pain with a doctorate as a physicists named Kenneth Willeford. He wrote a book title: "All or None" in which he used modern scientific journal to prove every part of the theory of evolution wrong. It is a very unique study and it destroys any belief anyone wants to hold in evolution.
Why can't we stick to the Text? It's all there--all we need for life and godliness.
FYI, I'd love to move to Edinburgh to get away from the guns-in-pews crowd. Via 'net research and then youtube viewings I've found a sticks-to-the-Text congregation I'd attend.
It isn't left or right. It's do you stick to Scripture or not?
I bailed from an entertainment congregation years ago (and this was before they went to instruments and had people on the platform with microphones) and felt much better when I started going to a sticks-to-the-Text congregation.
There’s nothing but entertainment congregations in my area. Both my husband and I struggle as fairly new Christians and want to find a congregation that sticks to the Scriptures. It’s so difficult, considering some unique circumstances we’re dealing with.