People dump money into 40 year old cars as its the same difference to me . I don't understand why people shit on 90's mountain bikes because they're outdated as it's the equivalence of owning a 1968 Dodge Charger and not driving it because new cars drive better .
8 หลายเดือนก่อน
Yeah. It sounds a bit crazy. It's true they're nice, but I wonder if they really worth such amountnof money
I'm building a 93 Giant Cadex with a carbon frame. I'm going to put panaracer tires on it that exceed what I paid for the bike. Yes this is madness. But this era... 92-94 is just such an epic time for mtn bikes. They have so much charm.
for the price of those brakes you could get a complete bike with 650b wheels. It’s nice to see and great fun but the reality is if you are on a limited budget it is just not good value for money
Interesting experiment but I prefer to stay with the 26 and get wider tires and it has the same diameter as a 650b with thinner tires and you retain a cushier ride. 26" wheels are stronger too. Tires like Maxxis DTH, Rene Herse Rattrap Pass, make your $150 26er just as good as your latest gravel bike. Crust bikes is also selling a 26" dynamo hub wheelset too. Long live 26"!
Being able to compensate with bigger tire depends on geometry of the frame - in my case the frame was designed around the use of fenders slightly bellow the maximum tire size, and I can put only max 2.1, or perhaps slim 2.25 slick with 26" and with how fenders ended up looking mounted I guess it can take even 27.5 x 2.0 due to how "rectangular" the tubing is just by using the fenders space. For now it will stay 26", but once I got my first 28" bike a couple years ago I have a bit of a problem with accepting back smaller wheel size and I feel that going just a bit bigger would work wonder.
I just picked up an old 2004 world traveller that is a 26”, and put on the new Schwalbe Pickup tires in 2.1. Rides like a dream over the bumps. Very tall, like miniature balloon tires, compared to the marathon plus that came with the bike.
If you run a full length cable from the lever to the brake and skip all the cable stops you just zip tie the cable to the top tube and it works like a factory brake with full housing. Did this on my hard rock and it works great!
The Paul V-brakes are known for being the easiest and simplest to adjust , also very light if you care . But in my opinion this bike really isn't deserving to have Paul brakes as Shimano XT would of been better served due to pricing. But it's all about the owner being happy and not us 👍 nice bike .
This type of conversion was actually a winning setup on the HPR (Human-Powered Rollercoaster) figure-8 velodrome in the late 1990s/early 2000s. It was a competition open to the international bike-courier community. While many people showed up to race with track bikes or road bikes, one of the most successful setups was 26er MTBs converted to 650b wheelsets. This allowed the use of narrower, lighter tires while maintaining the original wheel's intended outside diameter and race geometry on the MTBs. Quite a few riders ran this setup and many races were won on that crazy track with the 26-to-650b conversion. Paul Motolites were the key to enabling the conversion. Sweet brakes!
@@davidh9368 I mean, you saw with your own eyes in the video that the brakes still lock up. I would have no problem doing this in a pinch too. While it's not ideal, try not to worry so much. The kids will be fine. We've all ended up on the ground as kids at some point.
Great video. Great to know that the Paul's will reach. I have a 2001 cannondale ultra bad boy had 700c wheels on it or or i can put 26"wheels and will fit up to 2.1. But I put 650b wheelset on and I can run up to a 2.4 inch tire. I'm running a 2.1 road tire. And made the ultra bad boy into a gravel bike with drop bars. Love it best thing I did.
I think you should have kept the original lever, with shorter pull for cantilevers. Because with the pads moved upwards, you reduced the V-brake lever lenght significantly and therefore the need of cable pull is also reduced, causing that on-off feeling with a long pull lever. With a shorter pull lever, you will get more power and more modulation, because you have to pull the lever more, to have the same amount of cable pull.
I did a similar conversion that worked rather well. I took a old school Trek mountain bike with 26” wheel set and converted it to a modern gravel bike with modern drive train and old school 27” road wheel set. Like you I had to use a set of risers for the brakes. 👍👍👍. Turned out to be really cool build
Sweet! I've done this conversion probably 10 times on dadbike builds over the years. 90's Steel Gary Fisher Tassajara, Procaliber, GT Lightning, Scott Racing Comp, Trek 950 Specialized Stumpjumper 1991 (see Ultra Romance Cool bike) and they always ride awesome. Paul's are amazing, I run them on my Lightning, but also Tektro cr720 has decent height adjustability if you stick with canti, and if you cheat and run the threaded kool stop pads with v brake pad conical washers you can get a little more height. Sometimes a little bit of filing on the caliper to get pad contact to hit right. Bead seat diameter (rim diameter in mm basically) 559 mm for 26er to 584 mm for 650b makes for a change in radius of 12.5mm. So if your pads can adjust up that far from current position on 26er rims, this wonderful conversion just may work for you! Thanks for doing what you do Russ!
@@PathLessPedaledTV bummer! There was a Promax v brake with tons of height adjustability too for a while there. In fun colors too! Looks like the black one is still available. Promax P-1 V Pro 108mm. Also I have a BS in English, no joke! English majors unite!
@@PathLessPedaledTV Sad to hear about the cr720s. The look really good on my 650 conversion. I might try the Paul's on my next conversion if I can't find a silver set of the Tektros. Thanks for the video.
I have Motolite brakes paired with Paul Love Levers on my old Surly 1x1. It never occurred to me that I could upgrade it to 650b! Great idea! Btw I’m sure you know this, but running full housing all the way to the rear brake would fix your braze on issue. Cheers!
I made this conversion. My gravel bike is a late 80s/ early 90s Columbia frame that used to be 26 inch. I’ve been riding my conversion for a few years now and actually changed to 650b after watching a bunch of your videos, Russ.
I owned a Schwinn Paramount MTB for a brief time. I tried and tried to make it comfortable to ride but in the end it was just too small. Shame, because it was a gorgeous frame, with the "spider web" paint they were known for back then. So glad to see you working to give that one a second life. The frame has a lot of life left in her.
I’ve done something similar. I have 92 Schwinn PDG Paramount series 7 road bike. These so called “Japanamounts” frames are excellent values. They don’t have quite all the features of a Waterford Paramount but the Series 7 and 5 frames were made in the same Panasonic shop that still makes Kieran bike frames. In other words these are excellent and highly undervalued Steel frame sets. That’s why I’ve kept this frame for 30 years. The original Ultegra (Shimano 600) components and wheel set wore out long ago. So going into the late 90’s I set my Paramount aside and bought new Aluminum and CF bikes to keep up with advances in technology. Around 2010 I had moved to a new location near a bike path that I could ride to about two blocks from where I worked. So I got the bright idea to convert my PDG 7 into a commuter bike. I upgraded the head set, installed a stem with about 5% rise, replaced the handlebars, replaced the components with a lightly used Dura Ace 7800 groupo and added some DT Swiss wheels. As a commuter bike you’d have to spend a lot of money to have a commuter bike of this quality. 12 years later I’m still using it to commute to work. Though I’ve had to replace the brifters in 2018.
I've been considering 650b wheels for my Gary Fischer MTN bike for the reason you note about 26" wheels, they feel pokey. Your information now gives me a path on making my brake pads fit the bigger rim. Great to see the April 1 bike get new life and be something to enjoy. Last thought on your brake skid test reminding me of skidding on an old single speed coaster brake bike. What fun that was.
If you want to use the 26ers the way I did it was with a Shimano freehub model FH-T4000 36 hole(in my case). It’s dimensions are 135x10mm. That’s if you don’t mind unlacing and re-lacing the rear wheel. I recently put a Deore 1x11 on my 1993 GT Palomar. No frame widening or anything like that. Just a smooth swap and everything worked out beautifully.
Thanks so much for sharing this! I just picked up a '90s 26er a few weeks ago. I had no idea there were products on the market for converting wheel size! Adding this to the list of future upgrades.
Very nice, i had to do a similar thing with the zip ties in my old bike when i changed the derailleur, is a pretty neat trick that in my opinion doesn't deserve any money. If you want have less room for move the zip tie you can put another zip tie around the external part of the zip tie that keeps the cable housing and for stop it complitely put some eletrical tape in the frame where you think to put the zip tie. Anyway very nice bike. i noticed that around youtube now a lot of people are doing "5 reason for take a old 90 mtb" and i think people forgot that for update an old bike basically we are spending the same amount of the bike itself for each "upgrade" :') Your brakes are something like 100 $ :') My bike have a frame from the '90, tange double butted tubing, that i paid 51€ from ebay, but if i think the amount i've spent for have an "updated" bike probably i would be able to buy pretty easy an cxc model from omnium :D
Yea Motolites! My favorite rim brake. A much more economical conversion can be done using the Tektro CR 720 cantilever brakes - the slot has enough vertical adjustability to work with 650b rims. Easy to set up and good looking brakes.
I have a 1994 Slingshot with a 650B front. Box Components V brakes have enough range to handle it. Suspension Corrected forks will accommodate a pretty good sized 650B. I just put a pretty big 26 inch wheel on the back. Weirdly, the Slingshot has braze ons, you can put a rack on it! Just doing 650B front will slow the steering down a bit which is good.
I would have simply thrown on some new Continental Race King's and a healthy dose of talcum powder in the tire to let the tube slide around. Makes a huge difference and adds major suppleness factor to the ride quality. For the rear wheel, just rebuild the wheel with a new cassette hub and cheap cassette using the same rim. That's what I would have done personally. Keeping the tires 26" also allows future use of fenders in case you want to turn it into a commuter or city bike.
There’s clamp on cable stops made for that exact problem. Surprised you didn’t discover them. Also, I don’t know why there’s so much complaints about 26” tire availability. I’ve had no issues finding stuff, and not old stuff either. I’m running Maxxis Holy Rollers on one bike and Panaracer Fire XC on another, that I bought last year.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Just run the housing the whole way to the brake and use the zip ties just to hold it to the frame like a bmx. No need to use the frame guides. I just feel like the way you have it now if you squeeze too hard for some reason (accidnental) it will poop out of your current contraption. Unless I misunderstood what you did.
Those Motolites are swell. I tried them with a 90s MTB update after this and it solved my problems with other linear pull brakes. The range of adjustability is great, not just for wheel sizes but for whatever rim width or shape. Being able to fine tune the tension let me get them just right.
I’ve got the same setup on a 1992 ibis. Converted to drop bar and 650b with some nice Rene Herse tires. Really changed the feel of the bike. Motolites are amazing. From what I understand they will accommodate all the way up to a 700c wheel. When I spoke with Paul about it he said 26 will be linear long pull 700 will be short pull and 650b will be uhhh medium pull. Run whatever you want and it’ll be fine”. I’m my experience he was exactly right. The brakes are so high quality that the differences in pull are negligible in my experience. Love the content as always. Can’t wait for the next one.
@@jgshoe You can replace the v-brake noodle with a 'travel agent' which is basically a little roller cam that your cable runs through to increase the amount of pull on the cable.
I have done the same thing and found it difficult to get the bike comfortable with the raised BB but the frame size was a tad smaller than ideal. Thanks for sharing 👍
I have converted my '97 Giant 200 GSR to 27,5. I used v-breaks but had to extend the space for break pad with metal file (not sure if this is 100% safe :D). Also I have change the drivetrain from 3x7 to 1x9 (probably will add another chainring in the front). The biggest problem was with getting some decent 27,5 rim breake wheels so I've used some very low budget wheels. After the conversion riding on it is still not so nice :D
Nice! I did it on a 26" ANT fixed gear MTB. So as a result I only needed the front brake. 650x48c. I would be a little concerned going any fatter though because of how close the top if the tire would be to the noodle clamp. Would not a stone to rotate into it and get jammed. Paul makes the best brakes around, Klamper, Motolites and Racers. Have them on my other dirt specific fixed gear bikes.
I wish they'd make 29er rims compatible with V-Brakes. I used V-brakes forever and finally got into the 20th century with disc brakes and wasn't blown away except for the extra weight and cost.
Velocity* Cliffhangers are rim brake and they take 1.75-2.5" tires (45mm-65mm) and they come in 700c/29 *(not associated with them in any way, was researching rims for building a set of wheels at I time I actually had positive income)
V-brakes are still awesome. I have disc brakes on one bike but v-brakes on other. They have different feel but the Vs have even more power if you set them good. They bite like a shark.
@@michaelmann6482 He did mention that some other brakes have the range to fit both 26 and 650b rims. I think the price of the new wheelset to put on an old bike is the higher barrier to entry. That said, if I could get my hands on the wheels and brakes I would love to try this out. Looks like a fun upgrade!
@@michaelmann6482 yeah, I could buy a dozen 90s MTBs for the price of those brakes!. Then I've gotta add the rim brake 650b wheelset as well.. and I look at my old bike frame and I think no, no that's madness. That's too much money to throw at it.
Thanks for this! A while back I had looked at doing exactly this for my trusty ( crusty? v8v ) Fuji Sundance and have wondered about the road not taken (Path Not Pedaled?). Motolites were the only option that have would worked for the Sundance (brazed on posts, adapters that wouldn't fit in the frame, not quite enough pad adjustment, fugliness, etc.). At the time the cost for just the 2 sets of Motolites was well over my "try for less hand numbness after 30 miles" budget :S . For sure, tire clearance on the older bikes is an issue. When I was riding rock hard 20c tires on the road and I brought that Sundance home, those 1.5" knobby tires seemed enormous! Today...not so much, lol. My Sundance can't run bigger than 26x1.75" knobby or 26x2" slicks without rubbing, so about a 650b x 35 semi-slick at maximum. Alternatively, I could have gone with a 700c wheelset with a set of long reach center mount brakes, but I could "just" fit 700x28c tires (32c were jammed into the frame and I couldn't even seat the axle) Yeah, 26" really feels sluggish and a little twitchy when you've been riding bigger wheels. I find myself missing my newer 700c bike when riding the Sundance now. It might just be that '80s and early '90s mtbs are just kind of wonky. Again, thanks, now I don't have to wonder "what if?" anymore.
Just done a 650 conversation to my old Raleigh massif from 1990. Luckily I got a v brake to fit perfect, they were brakes of a 700c bike so I don't know if that helped. Can't wait to ride it now
This was an interesting and very achievable mod. Finding a set of reasonably priced wheels would be my biggest issue, probably have to buy a junker bike with 650s on it and go from there.
Still have the stock 26inch wheels on my Old Orbea xc bike, & they are great for gravel & xc riding, have not found any reason to go for a larger wheel size, just my opinion.
Given that you recently loved some 26" wheels with the Rene Herse Humptulips tires I'm assuming that with a good wheelset and some of those the 26" size would ride great for you. The problem is it is quite tough to get a high quality 26" rim brake set these days. So odd to me that RH put a lot of energy into the 26" revival but won't support it by pressuring Pacenti for the Brevets in 26."
Velocity has a couple of solid options. I went with 26" Cliffhangers on my Rockhopper. Still only a handful of decent 26" tires that will clear the frame.... Have Gravelkings on there now. Kinda want to try the Vittoria Mezcal.
@@billtidey wanted 26" Vittoria Mezcal as well. In Europe, they are nearly impossible to get unless you go for the heavier clincher version. I went for Schwalbe Rocket Ron instead. More comparable to the Vittoria Barzos, though much lighter and cheaper. I love these MTB tyres for my bike rounds which are increasingly more cross country than gravel.
People were racing XC on 26" wheels with rim brakes, quick release and tubeless tires in the 2000s. If you're able to hunt down a nice set of XC wheels from that era, they can often be had cheap due to their perceived obsolescence. You end up with strong, lightweight wheels with zero compatibility issues, the ability to run as many as 11 speeds, and clearance for high volume tires.
26 is fine until you hit rocky , heavily exposed root areas . One of my bikes is a 1992 KONA Hei Hei with 26 wheels , awesome bike that I basically use as an adult BMX bike in the city but I do MTB with it on occasion and its fine until the trail gets rough due to the small wheels and awkward geometry . I'm a gen-x whos been riding bikes since 1980 mountain biking right through the 90's living in NH with very rough trails but I'll take 27.5 or 29 wheels over 26 any day of the week in the woods as the 26 will beat you down .
Does anyone have any experience with either one of the extenders mentioned starting at 1:15 in the video? I’ve got the Neo-retros and will likely have to use adapters/extenders, but none of them are made by reputable vendors, and there’s remarkably little info and testimony about these. I can’t find much info. I’m eager to get these but concerned they may not hold up and lead to trouble. Anyone?
Which pedals, bars and stem are those? Great video. Things to consider. Not sure how I feel about the need to zip tie the cable? It would be nice to have more wheels and tires options.
One should consider that a 26 inch wheel with a 59mm tire is exactly the same wheel size as the 650b with a 47mm tire. But if you want to do it, a pair of avid speed dial adjustable levers or sth. similar should solve all the leverage/cable pull problems of the motolites at 650b.
haha the paul components are only the most expensive option. i used my origial deore xt center pulls and added the v-brake extenders on the front (rigid fork) and they work great. costs $12.
Hey Russ, I think you would be better off running full brake housing from the lever to the caliper. Definitely safer then using zipties as a cable stops. Safety third.
It's not the wheel diameter's fault that it won't work with a modern drivetrain. I have 2 sets of 26" wheels that take 10 speed cassettes, and you can buy a new machine built rear wheel for around 100 bucks if you want to change to a hub that will work with modern drivetrains.
Thanks for the great content! I've been wanting to do a 650b vintage mtb conversion for years! I'm living vicariously through the cave of bad ideas (good ideas?)
Hey, great video and I have learned alot from your channel. What makes me shake my head is the handlebars above the seat. I am a longtime roadie, and I have setup my MTB the same way as my road bikes, with a 5-6 in drop from seat to bars. Am I doing it wrong?
Decent canvas for a conversion, but given the vast majority braking is in the front wheel , I'd just pick up a fairly easy to source disc brake fork. Yes, the wheels would be mismatched unless you went with something like Mavic's Speedcities, but well worth the extra power, especially when riding in the wet, which is a great reason to have a bike like this in the 1st place.
I have a trek 1996 Trek 930 which will take 26" / 27.5" and 700c using some taiwanese long reach v-brakes, I tried the cantilever brakes but they dont really have the stopping power of the good old v-brake.
Up to my eyeballs in 90’s world resto/mod and this great to know. Now if I find a frame and fork worthy of that much $$. Like adding cable stops if needed or desired.
What wheels the did you use? I’ve looked up 650b rim wheelsets and not many are in my budget; very much in the “might as well buy a modern gravel bike” price range.
Did the BB and standover height change with this conversion, and did that affect your saddle height? MTBs already have a high enough BB that I feel like I am riding a horse when I put the saddle high enough to make my knees more comfortable.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Right. Just meant to ask if the change was enough that you wanted to get closer to the ground or were you comfortable enough to leave it as it is.
Loved this so much. Especially the $500.00 worth of brakes on an old mountain bike. I’m glad I’m not alone in this madness.
People dump money into 40 year old cars as its the same difference to me . I don't understand why people shit on 90's mountain bikes because they're outdated as it's the equivalence of owning a 1968 Dodge Charger and not driving it because new cars drive better .
Yeah. It sounds a bit crazy. It's true they're nice, but I wonder if they really worth such amountnof money
I'm building a 93 Giant Cadex with a carbon frame. I'm going to put panaracer tires on it that exceed what I paid for the bike.
Yes this is madness. But this era... 92-94 is just such an epic time for mtn bikes. They have so much charm.
for the price of those brakes you could get a complete bike with 650b wheels. It’s nice to see and great fun but the reality is if you are on a limited budget it is just not good value for money
Not only expensive, but also a pain to adjust properly.
Interesting experiment but I prefer to stay with the 26 and get wider tires and it has the same diameter as a 650b with thinner tires and you retain a cushier ride. 26" wheels are stronger too. Tires like Maxxis DTH, Rene Herse Rattrap Pass, make your $150 26er just as good as your latest gravel bike. Crust bikes is also selling a 26" dynamo hub wheelset too. Long live 26"!
Being able to compensate with bigger tire depends on geometry of the frame - in my case the frame was designed around the use of fenders slightly bellow the maximum tire size, and I can put only max 2.1, or perhaps slim 2.25 slick with 26" and with how fenders ended up looking mounted I guess it can take even 27.5 x 2.0 due to how "rectangular" the tubing is just by using the fenders space. For now it will stay 26", but once I got my first 28" bike a couple years ago I have a bit of a problem with accepting back smaller wheel size and I feel that going just a bit bigger would work wonder.
I just picked up an old 2004 world traveller that is a 26”, and put on the new Schwalbe Pickup tires in 2.1. Rides like a dream over the bumps. Very tall, like miniature balloon tires, compared to the marathon plus that came with the bike.
Pick up a clamp-on cable stop from origin8. Get one that matches your top tube diameter and you can avoid the zip ties for the rear brake.
I was going to say the same thing. I used one when I upgraded a old Schwinn Moab to V-brakes. Works perfectly.
just using what I had. I am not a bike shop.
Problem solvers also makes cable stop clamps
I am surprised the zip ties worked so well! Your time in the cave of bad ideas has given you a tolerance for trying things I wouldn't even consider
@@BenitoAndito what's the "cave of bad ideas?"
If you run a full length cable from the lever to the brake and skip all the cable stops you just zip tie the cable to the top tube and it works like a factory brake with full housing. Did this on my hard rock and it works great!
FYI - most basic V-brakes are adjustable to work with 650b no problem. So $25 per brake as opposed to $$$ for Paul brakes.
The Paul V-brakes are known for being the easiest and simplest to adjust , also very light if you care . But in my opinion this bike really isn't deserving to have Paul brakes as Shimano XT would of been better served due to pricing. But it's all about the owner being happy and not us 👍 nice bike .
Basically, I am very happy to see that finally, 90s MTBs are becoming a media topic or generally a "thing", as my basement is full of them :-D
This type of conversion was actually a winning setup on the HPR (Human-Powered Rollercoaster) figure-8 velodrome in the late 1990s/early 2000s. It was a competition open to the international bike-courier community. While many people showed up to race with track bikes or road bikes, one of the most successful setups was 26er MTBs converted to 650b wheelsets. This allowed the use of narrower, lighter tires while maintaining the original wheel's intended outside diameter and race geometry on the MTBs. Quite a few riders ran this setup and many races were won on that crazy track with the 26-to-650b conversion. Paul Motolites were the key to enabling the conversion. Sweet brakes!
Sweet geebus everybody. Thanks for the suggestions to use continuous housing or a cable stop. No need to leave that in the comments.
but you should really edit that out. some kid see this and then the housing slips and no brakes. don't be responsible for that tragedy.
@@davidh9368 I mean, you saw with your own eyes in the video that the brakes still lock up. I would have no problem doing this in a pinch too. While it's not ideal, try not to worry so much. The kids will be fine. We've all ended up on the ground as kids at some point.
Great video. Great to know that the Paul's will reach. I have a 2001 cannondale ultra bad boy had 700c wheels on it or or i can put 26"wheels and will fit up to 2.1. But I put 650b wheelset on and I can run up to a 2.4 inch tire. I'm running a 2.1 road tire. And made the ultra bad boy into a gravel bike with drop bars. Love it best thing I did.
I think you should have kept the original lever, with shorter pull for cantilevers. Because with the pads moved upwards, you reduced the V-brake lever lenght significantly and therefore the need of cable pull is also reduced, causing that on-off feeling with a long pull lever. With a shorter pull lever, you will get more power and more modulation, because you have to pull the lever more, to have the same amount of cable pull.
conversion or not, the best point you made at the end is that you are way more excited about the bike! All the other stuff doesn't matter as much.
I did a similar conversion that worked rather well. I took a old school Trek mountain bike with 26” wheel set and converted it to a modern gravel bike with modern drive train and old school 27” road wheel set. Like you I had to use a set of risers for the brakes. 👍👍👍. Turned out to be really cool build
Sweet! I've done this conversion probably 10 times on dadbike builds over the years. 90's Steel Gary Fisher Tassajara, Procaliber, GT Lightning, Scott Racing Comp, Trek 950 Specialized Stumpjumper 1991 (see Ultra Romance Cool bike) and they always ride awesome. Paul's are amazing, I run them on my Lightning, but also Tektro cr720 has decent height adjustability if you stick with canti, and if you cheat and run the threaded kool stop pads with v brake pad conical washers you can get a little more height. Sometimes a little bit of filing on the caliper to get pad contact to hit right. Bead seat diameter (rim diameter in mm basically) 559 mm for 26er to 584 mm for 650b makes for a change in radius of 12.5mm. So if your pads can adjust up that far from current position on 26er rims, this wonderful conversion just may work for you! Thanks for doing what you do Russ!
Thanks. Also just learned cr720s are no longer made.
@@PathLessPedaledTV bummer! There was a Promax v brake with tons of height adjustability too for a while there. In fun colors too! Looks like the black one is still available. Promax P-1 V Pro 108mm. Also I have a BS in English, no joke! English majors unite!
@@PathLessPedaledTV Sad to hear about the cr720s. The look really good on my 650 conversion. I might try the Paul's on my next conversion if I can't find a silver set of the Tektros. Thanks for the video.
I have Motolite brakes paired with Paul Love Levers on my old Surly 1x1. It never occurred to me that I could upgrade it to 650b! Great idea!
Btw I’m sure you know this, but running full housing all the way to the rear brake would fix your braze on issue. Cheers!
I made this conversion. My gravel bike is a late 80s/ early 90s Columbia frame that used to be 26 inch. I’ve been riding my conversion for a few years now and actually changed to 650b after watching a bunch of your videos, Russ.
I owned a Schwinn Paramount MTB for a brief time. I tried and tried to make it comfortable to ride but in the end it was just too small. Shame, because it was a gorgeous frame, with the "spider web" paint they were known for back then. So glad to see you working to give that one a second life. The frame has a lot of life left in her.
I’ve done something similar. I have 92 Schwinn PDG Paramount series 7 road bike. These so called “Japanamounts” frames are excellent values. They don’t have quite all the features of a Waterford Paramount but the Series 7 and 5 frames were made in the same Panasonic shop that still makes Kieran bike frames. In other words these are excellent and highly undervalued Steel frame sets. That’s why I’ve kept this frame for 30 years. The original Ultegra (Shimano 600) components and wheel set wore out long ago. So going into the late 90’s I set my Paramount aside and bought new Aluminum and CF bikes to keep up with advances in technology.
Around 2010 I had moved to a new location near a bike path that I could ride to about two blocks from where I worked.
So I got the bright idea to convert my PDG 7 into a commuter bike. I upgraded the head set, installed a stem with about 5% rise, replaced the handlebars, replaced the components with a lightly used Dura Ace 7800 groupo and added some DT Swiss wheels.
As a commuter bike you’d have to spend a lot of money to have a commuter bike of this quality.
12 years later I’m still using it to commute to work. Though I’ve had to replace the brifters in 2018.
I've been considering 650b wheels for my Gary Fischer MTN bike for the reason you note about 26" wheels, they feel pokey.
Your information now gives me a path on making my brake pads fit the bigger rim.
Great to see the April 1 bike get new life and be something to enjoy.
Last thought on your brake skid test reminding me of skidding on an old single speed coaster brake bike. What fun that was.
V brakes are my favorite rim brakes. More then enough power!
If you want to use the 26ers the way I did it was with a Shimano freehub model
FH-T4000 36 hole(in my case). It’s dimensions are 135x10mm. That’s if you don’t mind unlacing and re-lacing the rear wheel. I recently put a Deore 1x11 on my 1993 GT Palomar. No frame widening or anything like that. Just a smooth swap and everything worked out beautifully.
Thanks so much for sharing this! I just picked up a '90s 26er a few weeks ago. I had no idea there were products on the market for converting wheel size! Adding this to the list of future upgrades.
Very nice, i had to do a similar thing with the zip ties in my old bike when i changed the derailleur, is a pretty neat trick that in my opinion doesn't deserve any money.
If you want have less room for move the zip tie you can put another zip tie around the external part of the zip tie that keeps the cable housing and for stop it complitely put some eletrical tape in the frame where you think to put the zip tie.
Anyway very nice bike.
i noticed that around youtube now a lot of people are doing "5 reason for take a old 90 mtb" and i think people forgot that for update an old bike basically we are spending the same amount of the bike itself for each "upgrade" :') Your brakes are something like 100 $ :')
My bike have a frame from the '90, tange double butted tubing, that i paid 51€ from ebay, but if i think the amount i've spent for have an "updated" bike probably i would be able to buy pretty easy an cxc model from omnium :D
Yea Motolites! My favorite rim brake. A much more economical conversion can be done using the Tektro CR 720 cantilever brakes - the slot has enough vertical adjustability to work with 650b rims. Easy to set up and good looking brakes.
Man, I never knew these existed! Thanks!
I converted my 90’s titanium hardtail to 650/700 mullet as an adventure bike. Very fun and eye catching bike.
I have a 1994 Slingshot with a 650B front. Box Components V brakes have enough range to handle it. Suspension Corrected forks will accommodate a pretty good sized 650B. I just put a pretty big 26 inch wheel on the back. Weirdly, the Slingshot has braze ons, you can put a rack on it! Just doing 650B front will slow the steering down a bit which is good.
I would have simply thrown on some new Continental Race King's and a healthy dose of talcum powder in the tire to let the tube slide around. Makes a huge difference and adds major suppleness factor to the ride quality. For the rear wheel, just rebuild the wheel with a new cassette hub and cheap cassette using the same rim. That's what I would have done personally. Keeping the tires 26" also allows future use of fenders in case you want to turn it into a commuter or city bike.
RaceKings, even the cheaper PureGrip ones, were a major upgrade to my 1992 MTB. Now it's just fine as a 3x megarange off-road tourer and commuter.
Thanks for noting the help from Paul Components. (Great company).
There’s clamp on cable stops made for that exact problem. Surprised you didn’t discover them. Also, I don’t know why there’s so much complaints about 26” tire availability. I’ve had no issues finding stuff, and not old stuff either. I’m running Maxxis Holy Rollers on one bike and Panaracer Fire XC on another, that I bought last year.
Using what I had.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Just run the housing the whole way to the brake and use the zip ties just to hold it to the frame like a bmx. No need to use the frame guides. I just feel like the way you have it now if you squeeze too hard for some reason (accidnental) it will poop out of your current contraption. Unless I misunderstood what you did.
Ah yes. Those guides on the Schwinn/Paramount models. Such fun. My Series 90 is the same. Although I’m running HS33s on that beauty!
Those Motolites are swell. I tried them with a 90s MTB update after this and it solved my problems with other linear pull brakes. The range of adjustability is great, not just for wheel sizes but for whatever rim width or shape. Being able to fine tune the tension let me get them just right.
I’ve got the same setup on a 1992 ibis. Converted to drop bar and 650b with some nice Rene Herse tires. Really changed the feel of the bike. Motolites are amazing. From what I understand they will accommodate all the way up to a 700c wheel. When I spoke with Paul about it he said 26 will be linear long pull 700 will be short pull and 650b will be uhhh medium pull. Run whatever you want and it’ll be fine”. I’m my experience he was exactly right. The brakes are so high quality that the differences in pull are negligible in my experience.
Love the content as always. Can’t wait for the next one.
This is good to know, I’m doing a 26 - 650b swap on my Bridgestone with some motolites, and I’d love to keep my short pull non-aero levers if possible
@@jgshoe You can replace the v-brake noodle with a 'travel agent' which is basically a little roller cam that your cable runs through to increase the amount of pull on the cable.
I have done the same thing and found it difficult to get the bike comfortable with the raised BB but the frame size was a tad smaller than ideal. Thanks for sharing 👍
I have converted my '97 Giant 200 GSR to 27,5. I used v-breaks but had to extend the space for break pad with metal file (not sure if this is 100% safe :D). Also I have change the drivetrain from 3x7 to 1x9 (probably will add another chainring in the front). The biggest problem was with getting some decent 27,5 rim breake wheels so I've used some very low budget wheels. After the conversion riding on it is still not so nice :D
Nice! I did it on a 26" ANT fixed gear MTB. So as a result I only needed the front brake. 650x48c. I would be a little concerned going any fatter though because of how close the top if the tire would be to the noodle clamp. Would not a stone to rotate into it and get jammed. Paul makes the best brakes around, Klamper, Motolites and Racers. Have them on my other dirt specific fixed gear bikes.
PAUL'S are dreamy, 'nuff said. They are not cheap but the stopping power is amazing and they will outlive all of us combined.
I wish they'd make 29er rims compatible with V-Brakes. I used V-brakes forever and finally got into the 20th century with disc brakes and wasn't blown away except for the extra weight and cost.
There is plenty of 29/700c rim brake rims available.
@@PathLessPedaledTV i35 rims for MTB? Of course I'd have to weld on the posts but something to think about some day.
Velocity* Cliffhangers are rim brake and they take 1.75-2.5" tires (45mm-65mm) and they come in 700c/29
*(not associated with them in any way, was researching rims for building a set of wheels at I time I actually had positive income)
V-brakes are still awesome. I have disc brakes on one bike but v-brakes on other. They have different feel but the Vs have even more power if you set them good. They bite like a shark.
I just converted my 26" MTB to 28 mm wide 700c fixed gear wheels. I am still waiting for the brake adapters to arrive.
@6:51 I believe you can see the milling marks on the cable capture thing. I like to see stuff like that.
Well now you’ve done it! I am already mentally measuring up the clearance on my bike. I have a problem…
really enjoyed this one. I'm actually a little surprised that this isn't a more common upgrade. Perhaps I will give it a try myself.
Probably main reason it’s not more common is the price of Motolites.
@@michaelmann6482 He did mention that some other brakes have the range to fit both 26 and 650b rims. I think the price of the new wheelset to put on an old bike is the higher barrier to entry. That said, if I could get my hands on the wheels and brakes I would love to try this out. Looks like a fun upgrade!
@@michaelmann6482 yeah, I could buy a dozen 90s MTBs for the price of those brakes!.
Then I've gotta add the rim brake 650b wheelset as well.. and I look at my old bike frame and I think no, no that's madness. That's too much money to throw at it.
Thanks for this! A while back I had looked at doing exactly this for my trusty ( crusty? v8v ) Fuji Sundance and have wondered about the road not taken (Path Not Pedaled?). Motolites were the only option that have would worked for the Sundance (brazed on posts, adapters that wouldn't fit in the frame, not quite enough pad adjustment, fugliness, etc.). At the time the cost for just the 2 sets of Motolites was well over my "try for less hand numbness after 30 miles" budget :S .
For sure, tire clearance on the older bikes is an issue. When I was riding rock hard 20c tires on the road and I brought that Sundance home, those 1.5" knobby tires seemed enormous! Today...not so much, lol. My Sundance can't run bigger than 26x1.75" knobby or 26x2" slicks without rubbing, so about a 650b x 35 semi-slick at maximum. Alternatively, I could have gone with a 700c wheelset with a set of long reach center mount brakes, but I could "just" fit 700x28c tires (32c were jammed into the frame and I couldn't even seat the axle)
Yeah, 26" really feels sluggish and a little twitchy when you've been riding bigger wheels. I find myself missing my newer 700c bike when riding the Sundance now. It might just be that '80s and early '90s mtbs are just kind of wonky.
Again, thanks, now I don't have to wonder "what if?" anymore.
A great trick for this mod is to use Avid speed dial brake levers because you can adjust the cable pull.
Just done a 650 conversation to my old Raleigh massif from 1990. Luckily I got a v brake to fit perfect, they were brakes of a 700c bike so I don't know if that helped. Can't wait to ride it now
I used an origin8 cable guide that clamps to the top tube. Origin8 makes these guides in three diameters.
This was an interesting and very achievable mod. Finding a set of reasonably priced wheels would be my biggest issue, probably have to buy a junker bike with 650s on it and go from there.
Still have the stock 26inch wheels on my Old Orbea xc bike, & they are great for gravel & xc riding, have not found any reason to go for a larger wheel size, just my opinion.
It's almost like an old 90's mountain bike can do it all
Given that you recently loved some 26" wheels with the Rene Herse Humptulips tires I'm assuming that with a good wheelset and some of those the 26" size would ride great for you. The problem is it is quite tough to get a high quality 26" rim brake set these days. So odd to me that RH put a lot of energy into the 26" revival but won't support it by pressuring Pacenti for the Brevets in 26."
Velocity has a couple of solid options. I went with 26" Cliffhangers on my Rockhopper. Still only a handful of decent 26" tires that will clear the frame.... Have Gravelkings on there now. Kinda want to try the Vittoria Mezcal.
@@billtidey Yeah some solid Velocity options. And Velo Orange has got em too. I just mean we usually have to get custom wheels.
@@billtidey wanted 26" Vittoria Mezcal as well. In Europe, they are nearly impossible to get unless you go for the heavier clincher version. I went for Schwalbe Rocket Ron instead. More comparable to the Vittoria Barzos, though much lighter and cheaper. I love these MTB tyres for my bike rounds which are increasingly more cross country than gravel.
If you want to stick with 26", I highly recommend the TerraOne tires. They ride great and are about half the price of RH.
@@asaoma1509 Gotta be real: If Panaracer doesn’t make it, I don’t ride it 😂
Here in uk our rear break is the left leaver ....it come from motor bikes right leaver is clutch ...
People were racing XC on 26" wheels with rim brakes, quick release and tubeless tires in the 2000s. If you're able to hunt down a nice set of XC wheels from that era, they can often be had cheap due to their perceived obsolescence. You end up with strong, lightweight wheels with zero compatibility issues, the ability to run as many as 11 speeds, and clearance for high volume tires.
26 is fine until you hit rocky , heavily exposed root areas . One of my bikes is a 1992 KONA Hei Hei with 26 wheels , awesome bike that I basically use as an adult BMX bike in the city but I do MTB with it on occasion and its fine until the trail gets rough due to the small wheels and awkward geometry . I'm a gen-x whos been riding bikes since 1980 mountain biking right through the 90's living in NH with very rough trails but I'll take 27.5 or 29 wheels over 26 any day of the week in the woods as the 26 will beat you down .
Does anyone have any experience with either one of the extenders mentioned starting at 1:15 in the video? I’ve got the Neo-retros and will likely have to use adapters/extenders, but none of them are made by reputable vendors, and there’s remarkably little info and testimony about these. I can’t find much info. I’m eager to get these but concerned they may not hold up and lead to trouble. Anyone?
I'm sorry if it's churlish to point it out, but those brakes cost five times what the bike is worth.
Still cheaper than a new bike? Also notice how I went to great pains to point out it wasn’t the ONLY option.
Aliexpress MUQZI Caliper Extension at around $10 works just fine. Some will go for the bling, some are on a budget. There is an option for everybody!
@@andrecarvalho4867 It would be interesting to see how well the other options work.
Loving these vids! Did you find any diferences in how the bike rides/handles with a higher bottom bracket?
Thanks for sharing this video! It's got me thinking about doing the conversion, now that I know that the process isn't too difficult.
What about rims? Interested to know what options there are for 650b rim brake wheels
I was more concerned about toe and front wheel clearance but apparently it wasn't an issue
Great video! Practical content. .....aaand yet another reinforcement that 90s MTB are the best!
Do you remember what stem adapter you used? I bought a 25.4 turnd out it was a 26.0
Stuck freewheel? Thr last stuck freewheel I had release easily when I switched to a 48 inch breaker bar.
Hey where do you do breakdancing? Ithink i saw you before?
I got away with 700c and break post risers. I love converting them so freaking much
What handlebar make is that riser bar?
Which pedals, bars and stem are those? Great video. Things to consider. Not sure how I feel about the need to zip tie the cable? It would be nice to have more wheels and tires options.
90s MTB + 2,4 Schwalbe Super Moto-X = Perfection!
Actually I really like the reason for switching to 650B. I had my doubts but this totally makes sense. Definitely better if you want to go tubeless.
One should consider that a 26 inch wheel with a 59mm tire is exactly the same wheel size as the 650b with a 47mm tire. But if you want to do it, a pair of avid speed dial adjustable levers or sth. similar should solve all the leverage/cable pull problems of the motolites at 650b.
haha the paul components are only the most expensive option. i used my origial deore xt center pulls and added the v-brake extenders on the front (rigid fork) and they work great. costs $12.
A Problem Solvers Backstop Frame-mounted clamp-on housing stop will fix your cable tie mess.
Using what I had.
Hey Russ,
I think you would be better off running full brake housing from the lever to the caliper. Definitely safer then using zipties as a cable stops. Safety third.
I’d still have to zip tie it to the top tube.🤷🏽♂️
great video @pathlesspedaled. I have a 90s MTB I would like to try this brake. Will it take 700C wheels?
i cant understand what you mean by saying not being able to use a modern drive train with 26 inch wheels. could you elaborate on that?
Mine has a freewheel not a cassette. Also it’s stuck. Even I’d I could get it off it won’t take a modern cassette.
It's not the wheel diameter's fault that it won't work with a modern drivetrain. I have 2 sets of 26" wheels that take 10 speed cassettes, and you can buy a new machine built rear wheel for around 100 bucks if you want to change to a hub that will work with modern drivetrains.
@@PathLessPedaledTV thanks for clarifying. now i understand what you meant :)
Little advice: just use a brake housing from the lever all the way to the brake and nothing could slip.
The bigger wheels make it look pretty cool too
This may be a dumb question but I have never done it… Can you convert 26” to 650b on every old mtb?
Thanks for the great content! I've been wanting to do a 650b vintage mtb conversion for years! I'm living vicariously through the cave of bad ideas (good ideas?)
Hey, great video and I have learned alot from your channel. What makes me shake my head is the handlebars above the seat. I am a longtime roadie, and I have setup my MTB the same way as my road bikes, with a 5-6 in drop from seat to bars. Am I doing it wrong?
Decent canvas for a conversion, but given the vast majority braking is in the front wheel , I'd just pick up a fairly easy to source disc brake fork. Yes, the wheels would be mismatched unless you went with something like Mavic's Speedcities, but well worth the extra power, especially when riding in the wet, which is a great reason to have a bike like this in the 1st place.
You do you.
I have a trek 1996 Trek 930 which will take 26" / 27.5" and 700c using some taiwanese long reach v-brakes, I tried the cantilever brakes but they dont really have the stopping power of the good old v-brake.
wow what a beautiful place to ride your bike!
Those Paul brakes look like that have great leverage!
Try using the cantilever pull ratio now.
What did the conversion do to your tire clearence? How much did you lose going to a larger diameter 650B?
A little off topic for this vid, but what stem adapter are you using? Converting a Bridgestone MB-5 and would love to raise the bars up a bit.
A really long nitto one.
Up to my eyeballs in 90’s world resto/mod and this great to know. Now if I find a frame and fork worthy of that much $$. Like adding cable stops if needed or desired.
What wheels the did you use? I’ve looked up 650b rim wheelsets and not many are in my budget; very much in the “might as well buy a modern gravel bike” price range.
Pacenti Brevet.
Cool stuff ... Maybe I'll do the same with my Marin
Ha ha. The skid test was upsetting the neighborhood dogs! 🐕🦺🐕🐶
Chain stay is bent. I’ve seen them bend inward but not down.
Also use a continuous housing.
Practice is always good.
It’s an asymmetrical chainstay that is suppose to do that.
Hi. What stem and threadless stem adapter are you using with those SOMA Dream riser bars? And what brand are those grips?
I've got the opposite problem. Bike set up for 650b, but has 26rims. Brakes don't fit.
I didn't think the larger diameter wheels would fit, that the rear would run into the chainstays/bb shell.
Love the skid test!!!
What bars are you using, they look awesome?
jan heine has good 26 inch. u want more rollover? go to a bigger tire. need a subject for a video? change to 650b
Awesome video.
Paul Motolites are stupid expensive.
Did the BB and standover height change with this conversion, and did that affect your saddle height? MTBs already have a high enough BB that I feel like I am riding a horse when I put the saddle high enough to make my knees more comfortable.
BB height increased a little. That does not change saddle height since you are not setting the height relative to the ground but the pedal.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Right. Just meant to ask if the change was enough that you wanted to get closer to the ground or were you comfortable enough to leave it as it is.
Where the heck do you find 650 wheels with rim brakes
Rivendell, Crust, Pacenti, etc. internet.
Longe life to the 90's bicycles!
I would love to see you put a modern air fork on it
Great. Why not run housing all the way on rear?
Because apparently I’m not smart enough to figure that out.