Thanks for the video I was raised around LAX, I am 69 now OMG. Anyways, my husband and I fly Southwest and are seriously considering Southwest to Maui. It was great to see the new plane! We have to travel from JAX to either Phoenix Sky Harbor or LAX. I remember in the early 60's To board a plane we walked out the door on paver bricks set in rocks and dirt about a couple of feet to a chain link gate on a fence about 5 ft tall Time to board, open the gate and walk to the Pan Am B707 to England. The flight home from Paris our TWA B707 caught fire and we made an emergency landing in Shannon, Ireland, chutes and Emergency vehicles
I love it. Last time I went to Hawaii was in 2015, on a long-range Alaska 737-800 from SJC-LIH. Identical to this Southwest 737 model here, these newer ones are obviously designed for very long flights.
Wow I remember when southwest was the trailer park of the sky but they’ve really classed it up over the years! Does anyone remember when the exit rows had face to face club seating?
I certainly do. I was flying SW back in the early '90s when it was a small, lesser-known airline. There doesn't exist any other American carrier on which I've flown more times than SW.
90's southwest is what spirit and frontier strive to be. An incredibly profitable airline, whilst still giving a good service at a cheap price. Sure the cabin may have been shitty but I never had a bad experience, just expect what you pay for
Thank you for making this trip report video, even tho it is 2 years old it’s very helpful. We are flying ORF-BWI-LAX-OGG this summer, landing in Maui at the same exact time as your flight 9:40am. I am so incredibly anxious about flying over open water for so long , these videos are helping ease my anxiety a bit. Good info about bringing our own charged devices, are pre charged charging blocks allowed on planes?
Update: It has been a while since I took this same southwest flight. Though it was one of the best flights I've had. I will definitely be flying southwest again. And after watching the video a second time, I'm 99% sure I had the same cabin crew member serving me on my flight as yours LOL! They sound and look the same!
They crew asked to close the window shades!? So definitely no flight for me because my totally relaxing "inflight-entertainment" is just "looking out of the window"!
Great video! Will be taking this exact flight myself in mid February 2022 with Southwest on the 737 max 8. Helpful to know what service/amenities would be offered onboard, as I've never flown with Southwest before. Thanks!
SW was always my favorite domestic airline - they do a fun, pleasant job with every aspect of the flight. As a passenger I always felt very well taken care of on SW.
Hey there! Thanks for making this video, so helpful! Does anyone know how much is the standard for a return ticket to LAX from Honolulu in early December? I don't want to book too soon if a possible sale will pop up!
th-cam.com/video/MR5Xya3g_OY/w-d-xo.html Watch this Trip Report. It goes over the seat with the most legroom on Southwests 737 MAX 8. It’s an exit row which is missing a seat on the front on the window side. Definitely recommend it!
With a big city like Omaha, I would imagine there are connecting flights with LAX or SFO, to get to Hawaii. I'll bet if you do some airline shopping, it may be cheaper than you expected sir (if a bit long).
Just out of curiosity, was there any concern that this was a MAX jet (not necessarily by you, but by others)? Was it mentioned by crew or anyone at any point? I thought I remember reading somewhere that it would be disclosed and people would be offered to change flights.
On all airline booking sites, you can see which airplane type you are going to be flying, it's no secret. However, no one should be scared of this plane!
@@nathanfitzgerald6651 there’s WiFi to access the internet for $8. Southwest utilizes satellite based WiFi so you can watch live TV, such as the NFL playoffs, all the way to the islands.
I landed at Maui in December 1980 in a vintage 1960's era 737 run by Aloha Airlines. The same fleet of 1st gen 737's of which one would blow its top off in 1988.
That's because Aloha Airlines flew that 737 four times beyond its metal fatigue rating. It's amazing that older 737 flew that many hours beyond the safety margin without its roof flying off.
Great question. Southwest has a open seating policy, which mean you pick whatever seat you want when you get onboard (unless that seat is already taken). Southwest boards in 3 groups, A, B, and C, and 60 positions in each letter. For example I got letter A, position 30. The earlier you check in the earlier you can board. Group A boards first. With that being said, make sure to check in EXACTLY 24 hours before your flight to try and get an A position. I always check in the exact second it hits 24 hours so that I can get a good boarding position. You can also purchase this extra thing called Early Bird Check-In. This makes it so that southwest automatically checks you in 36 hours before departure, which is 12 hours before general check in. This allows you to increase your chance of getting a good A position and grab that seat you want. That ranges from about $15-$25 per person, per flight.
In all my Southwest flights, it's been sort of open seating, but passengers get seat/boarding priority depending on how early they check in. Like the A group, the B group, the C group.
Great question! Unfortunately Southwest does not YET have power ports on ANY aircraft. However, they made an announcement last month saying that they will begin to put power ports (USB A and C) on newer 737 MAX Aircraft. Expect to see these power ports coming in 2023!
@@skylife_737 I heard that Southwest will also have 2 MAXes with retro liveries. Do you think the retro livery jets will be part of the newer MAXes with the power ports or will the retrojets come before the power ports and not be fitted with them? And do you think they will have any MAX7s that don't have the power ports?
@@Blank00 That’s a good question, however I’m not sure. Only the future will tell. I’m hoping by the end of 2022 we will get more news on the 737 MAXs for Southwest.
@@Blank00 Right now the decision is to only put the power ports in new orders. So only on the new aircraft. They do have ideas on POSSIBLY retrofitting existing aircraft in the future.
I have a question for you... Did it just take a half of an hour to get from Los Angeles to Kahului? I have heard it takes up to 6 hours! So I am very confused.
This is the plane type that had 3 MCAS related stab trim runaways. 2 of those 3 crews either incorrectly ran the stab trim runaway procedure (Ethiopian) or didn't run it at all (2nd LionAir crew). The third crew (1st LionAir crew) correctly ran the procedure and landed uneventfully.
@@1mama402 Quick edit of my first comment, the crew that incorrectly ran the QRH procedure was not Indonesian, but rather Ethiopian. I'll go fix that post. If that what was throwing you off and you're familiar with the 3 MCAS related Stab Trim Runaway events, feel free to not read any further. The two LionAIr incidents were October 2018, the Ethiopian incident was March 2019. The media, Netflix and the MSFS kids who think they're experts love to scream "Greedy Boeing executives killing innocent people for fun and profit!!!!!" because yes, Boeing didn't tell crews ***AT FIRST*** about the existence of the MCAS system, which the media and the MSFS Kids just LOVE to insist "Forced the nose down in a death dive!!" Que dramatic music.... Basically, the pre modified version of MCAS could, under certain AOA Vane failure modes, lead to what presented itself as a Runaway Stabilizer Trim. The Boeing engineers basically knew that the DECADES old Runaway Stab Trim Quick Reference Handbook (QRH) procedure would correct any stab trim issue with the airplane in the event of an MCAS malfunction, and so they didn't bother to rewrite a procedure that had been completely fine since the 1960s. And, guess what? The first time a crew experienced an MCAS induced runaway stab trim, they ran the decades old procedure, got the airplane under control, flew back to their departure point and landed uneventfully. That crew was slower to recognize the runaway than we would like to see at my airline, but they eventually ran the procedure and stabilized the aircraft. When they landed back at base, they wrote up the malfunction for Maintenance, who promptly did exactly nothing. They signed the airplane off and returned it to the line for its next flight. Since the AOA vane was still malfunctioning (they didn't realize that was the root cause of the runaway stab trim) the next crew had the exact same malfunction. Runaway Stab Trim. Except they literally didn't even run the QRH procedure. Hit the water screaming (Literally. Read the CVR transcript) As the accident investigation started to reveal what had happened, Boeing disseminated that information to every MAX operator in the world. Including the Ethiopians. By the time of the Ethiopian MAX crash, every MAX pilot on Earth, absolutely, positively, 100% knew about MCAS, and knew what Boeing said about the possibility of an MCAS induced Runaway Stab Trim, and what crews should do in the event they experienced one. The media loves to pretend the Ethiopians were still unaware of the MCAS issue but that's completely false. The problem was, the Ethiopians were not exactly what we here in the USA would consider a capable crew. The Captain had spent many years as a Cruise Pilot on a widebody (cruise pilots do not takeoff or land, they sit at the controls and talk on the radio on long haul flights while the real pilots take turns resting back in the cabin) The First Officer literally had 400 hours of flight time. Not 400 in the MAX, 400 total time. In the USA, a 400 hour pilot is towing banners up and down the beach in a Piper Cub or flight instructing in a Cessna 172. To hold an Airline Pilots license in the USA you need 1500 hours of flight time. To be competitive to actually get a job at a major airline, you need many times that. IOW, that FO would never have been allowed anywhere near a 737 in the USA. So anyway, off they go and get an MCAS induced Stab Trim Runaway. To their credit, they did in fact do the QRH procedure. Except there were 2 teensy little problems. First, you need to understand the Autothrottle systems logic in a Boeing. When you disengage the A/T's, guess what happens to the thrust levers (And therefore, to the N1's) the answer is...ABSOLUTELYNOTHING. They stay at exactly the same place they were before you disconnect them. Which for our Ethiopian friends, was something in the low 90% range. In other words......takeoff or climb thrust, IE, very high thrust setting. Now to make things worse for them, they were also getting an intermittent stick shaker (due to the erroneous AOA data which was also driving the MCAS event) The problem was, they interpreted that stick shaker at face value. (If you're not a pilot, stick shakers are a warning system to inform the pilots they are approaching critical AOA. IOW, approaching an aerodynamic stall) So they responded the way pilots are trained to respond to an actual stick shaker. They pitched down to try to break the stall. Except there was no stall. And they were at 90 something percent on the N1s. Now 737s may look old and clunky (especially to MSFS kids) but they are in fact, very clean aerodynamically, especially the MAX with its new wing. SO they pitch down while still at very high thrust setting. Guess what happens. They accelerat. Fast. To WAYYYY past redline speed. Now, keep in mind, the Boeing manuals have said FOR DECADES, that at high IAS's it may be necessary to SLOOOOOW DOWN in order to aerodynamically unload the horizontal stab to the point that manual stab trimming is possible. Guess what happened to the Ethiopians? They had run the QRH procedure for the Stab Trim Runaway (good job, boys...) which had lead them to select the Stab Trim Cutoff switches. So now they need to use the manual stab trim wheel. Except they left their N1s at 90% and pitched the nose at the dirt to break a non existent stall. SO now they're doing something like 360KIAS and the 90 pound First Officer literally can't turn the manual trim wheel to try to get the nose pitched back up. Do they ever slow down (like the 737 manual has said might be necessary since the 1970s) Nope. They hit the ground at 90% N1 and deep into IAS redline. So as they're screaming downhill with climb thrust still set, guess what they try to do? REENGAGE the autopilot. Are you f**king kidding me? DIS engaging the A/P is literally the very first line item in the memory items and on the QRH procedure. They tried to REengage it not once. Not twice, but 6 (SIX!!!!) times. That's how much confidence these guys had in their stick and rudder skills. Intentionally UN-doing what the QRH procedure tells you to do. Then desperately trying to get the autopilot to save them. Because they couldn't fly the airplane. Ask any student pilot what the first thing they teach you on day 1 of student pilot ground school is. It is "Pitch + Power = Performance" Literally day 1 of student pilot class. So after all the dust settled (from the investigation, not from the impact) guess what Boeing was forced to change in the QRH? They were forced to add line items which literally say to use thrust settings and flight controls to fly the airplane. Nothing else changed, they basically just added those two line items because the Ethiopians had so spectacularly F'd up the actual piloting part of the QRH that the Boeing lawyers made the engineers put it in the book. Had they just manually reduced their thrust settings they never would have accelerated to the point of not being able to manually trim the airplane. Had they not pitched down to break a non existent stall they similarly would not have accelerated to that point. But those two errors together put them in a speed regime that would not allow manual trimming. Now I know that doesn't fit the media narrative that a Third World trained 400 hour pilot is the equal of say, a Delta pilot or a Southwest Airlines pilot with 30 times that experience (for the record, I'm approaching 65 times that experience) but the reality is, Boeing assumes a certain level of pilot proficiency when they design their airplanes and especially when they build their non normal procedures for that airplane. I say that not as a racist Boeing executive or whatever the media is calling them, but as a 737 Captain with 18,000 hours in the airplane, and more importantly as someone who has completed the FAA mandated MAX Return to Service Training which was implemented as part of the ungrounding. That training included flying the Ethiopian profile in the simulator, along with all sorts of MCAS and non MCAS related flight control failures. I can honestly tell you that if a crew does the procedure correctly (key word, correctly) it is a complete and total non event. The PF can fly the airplane with one hand and drink a cup of coffee while the PM manually trims the stab wheel. So why was the airplane grounded for 2 years? Mostly media hysteria and the glacial pace of government bureaucracy. Was Boeing stupid and a bit sketchy in their initial handling of the airplane? Absolutely. As a pilot, I want to know if they change the coffee maker design in the galley or the toilet paper holder in the lav. Not being told about a system like MCAS until the airplane was already flying revenue flights was completely unacceptable. Making a second AOA input on the system an extra cost option instead of standard (as it is now) was completely unacceptable. They absolutely did a bunch of shady stuff. And Boeing has rightly been crucified for their actions. But the bottom line is, the first LionAir crew didn't know about MCAS and used the decades old QRH procedure to successfully handle an MCAS failure and safely land the airplane. The Ethiopians knew about MCAS, ran the QRH procedure so badly that they literally tried to UN run it and wound up in the dirt. I don't care what the media says. I don't care what the MSFS kids who watched the NetFlix video about Boeing say. As someone who flies 737s for a living, and has been flying them for 2 decades, I can tell you that it doesn't matter if it was induced by a faulty AOA input in the MCAS system. It doesn't matter if it's caused by a burned out trim motor. It doesn't matter if it was caused by hostile little green men from Pluto pointing a death ray at the airplane. The bottom line is, a Runaway Stab Trim in a 737 should never, ever, be a fatal event.
That's because this is on one of their brand new 737 MAX 8 Planes with Boeing's Sky Interior, featuring mood lights, better seats, and more efficient overhead bins
Just a reminder if you guys liked the trip report you can also follow my Instagram for more content! @standbycolin
Thanks for the video I was raised around LAX, I am 69 now OMG. Anyways, my husband and I fly Southwest and are seriously considering Southwest to Maui. It was great to see the new plane! We have to travel from JAX to either Phoenix Sky Harbor or LAX. I remember in the early 60's To board a plane we walked out the door on paver bricks set in rocks and dirt about a couple of feet to a chain link gate on a fence about 5 ft tall Time to board, open the gate and walk to the Pan Am B707 to England. The flight home from Paris our TWA B707 caught fire and we made an emergency landing in Shannon, Ireland, chutes and Emergency vehicles
Awesome video! So cool to see the new Southwest interior on flights to Hawaii, as well as the Boeing 737 MAX-8.
Thanks! That new southwest interior is beautiful!
wow beautiful flight greetings from the netherlands
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video. The 737 MAX 8 is a great aircraft despite the negative publicity of a few years ago.
Thanks for this Colin. Now gonna book with Southwest to Lihue from LAX
Do it! You will not regret it! Especially with that cheap fare!
Just flew on a Max 8 from LAS to TUS....nice ride!
I have flown southwest airlines and I loved it
I love it. Last time I went to Hawaii was in 2015, on a long-range Alaska 737-800 from SJC-LIH. Identical to this Southwest 737 model here, these newer ones are obviously designed for very long flights.
Glad you liked the trip report!
I'm confused what you mean by long-range. Are there different Alaska 737-800s meant for long haul routes?
@@K4Ediamond It's a 5 hour flight from the w. coast to Hawaii, so I consider that pretty long for a 737 flight.
Wow I remember when southwest was the trailer park of the sky but they’ve really classed it up over the years! Does anyone remember when the exit rows had face to face club seating?
I certainly do. I was flying SW back in the early '90s when it was a small, lesser-known airline. There doesn't exist any other American carrier on which I've flown more times than SW.
I sure do remember! It was interesting.
90's southwest is what spirit and frontier strive to be. An incredibly profitable airline, whilst still giving a good service at a cheap price. Sure the cabin may have been shitty but I never had a bad experience, just expect what you pay for
Yeah it was fine. I don't take a flight for the airplane experience.
I take a flight to get somewhere faster than car or boat. They fulfill that need
Thank you for making this trip report video, even tho it is 2 years old it’s very helpful. We are flying ORF-BWI-LAX-OGG this summer, landing in Maui at the same exact time as your flight 9:40am. I am so incredibly anxious about flying over open water for so long , these videos are helping ease my anxiety a bit. Good info about bringing our own charged devices, are pre charged charging blocks allowed on planes?
Been looking to start trip reporting and need inspiration. This is exactly what I'm looking for! Subbed!
Glad this helped! If you have any questions about TH-cam stuff pls ask! Glad your subbed! I’ll be making more trip reports in April!
Minute 16:37 I wonder why flight attendants asked to have shades down...
Beautiful bird
Indeeed!
Update:
It has been a while since I took this same southwest flight. Though it was one of the best flights I've had. I will definitely be flying southwest again. And after watching the video a second time, I'm 99% sure I had the same cabin crew member serving me on my flight as yours LOL! They sound and look the same!
They crew asked to close the window shades!? So definitely no flight for me because my totally relaxing "inflight-entertainment" is just "looking out of the window"!
For Maui that was a smooth aproach. It can get very much bumpier due to a nice Passat wind in the afternoon......
Southwest Boeing 737 max 8 planes are very spacious
I remember flying to Missouri, and there were 6 seats that faced
each other 😂
This was in the 90’s
Wow, just saw your description. That looks like a great fare to Hawaii 😯
It was really good. You gotta keep a close eye on those fares! I’ve seen it as low as $89 to Hawaii one day, however that was a while back.
I miss Hawaii. Mahalo nui loa🌺
Why pay for Early Bird if you're gonna take seat 20F?
Nice video
Do they still have backwards seats? That was weird! I sat in them a couple of times- takeoff was a unique experience!
Great video! Will be taking this exact flight myself in mid February 2022 with Southwest on the 737 max 8. Helpful to know what service/amenities would be offered onboard, as I've never flown with Southwest before. Thanks!
I’m glad you liked the trip report! The flights southwest offers to Hawaii are awesome! Hope you like your flight as well!
SW was always my favorite domestic airline - they do a fun, pleasant job with every aspect of the flight. As a passenger I always felt very well taken care of on SW.
Nice one . Loved it
Thank you!
nice trip report man !
At 7:00, did you just rack a pistol??
Butter!!!
Hey there! Thanks for making this video, so helpful! Does anyone know how much is the standard for a return ticket to LAX from Honolulu in early December? I don't want to book too soon if a possible sale will pop up!
Which row on this plane has the most legroom?
th-cam.com/video/MR5Xya3g_OY/w-d-xo.html Watch this Trip Report. It goes over the seat with the most legroom on Southwests 737 MAX 8. It’s an exit row which is missing a seat on the front on the window side. Definitely recommend it!
Fly to Omaha sometime please
I’ll try!
With a big city like Omaha, I would imagine there are connecting flights with LAX or SFO, to get to Hawaii. I'll bet if you do some airline shopping, it may be cheaper than you expected sir (if a bit long).
@@nathanfitzgerald6651 the good news is Southwest flies to LAX LAS and PHX from OMA to get to Hawaii
15:06 Works WELL
awesome video dawg
Just out of curiosity, was there any concern that this was a MAX jet (not necessarily by you, but by others)? Was it mentioned by crew or anyone at any point? I thought I remember reading somewhere that it would be disclosed and people would be offered to change flights.
I dont think they do that anymore now that the aircraft has been cleared to fly again. but dont quote me on that
I’m sure you can still switch flights but no one seemed to be worried. Honestly no one should be worried anyway this plane is absolutely safe
On all airline booking sites, you can see which airplane type you are going to be flying, it's no secret. However, no one should be scared of this plane!
I'm flying to kauai on Thursday I am stoked! Do they have usb ports by chance??
Nice. Unfortunately southwest does not have USB or AC power outlets. Make sure to bring your own power
@@skylife_737 should I buy a power bar that you use to charge your phone?
@@chefmesser420 yes👍
I always assumed these newer, high-tech 737s have some sort of internet hook-up.
@@nathanfitzgerald6651 there’s WiFi to access the internet for $8. Southwest utilizes satellite based WiFi so you can watch live TV, such as the NFL playoffs, all the way to the islands.
great video
Thank you! And thanks for being the 300th subscriber!
I landed at Maui in December 1980 in a vintage 1960's era 737 run by Aloha Airlines. The same fleet of 1st gen 737's of which one would blow its top off in 1988.
That's because Aloha Airlines flew that 737 four times beyond its metal fatigue rating. It's amazing that older 737 flew that many hours beyond the safety margin without its roof flying off.
When booking southwest do you choose your seat when you book or is it pick whatever seat when you get on the plane?
Great question. Southwest has a open seating policy, which mean you pick whatever seat you want when you get onboard (unless that seat is already taken). Southwest boards in 3 groups, A, B, and C, and 60 positions in each letter. For example I got letter A, position 30. The earlier you check in the earlier you can board. Group A boards first. With that being said, make sure to check in EXACTLY 24 hours before your flight to try and get an A position. I always check in the exact second it hits 24 hours so that I can get a good boarding position. You can also purchase this extra thing called Early Bird Check-In. This makes it so that southwest automatically checks you in 36 hours before departure, which is 12 hours before general check in. This allows you to increase your chance of getting a good A position and grab that seat you want. That ranges from about $15-$25 per person, per flight.
@@skylife_737 thanks
In all my Southwest flights, it's been sort of open seating, but passengers get seat/boarding priority depending on how early they check in. Like the A group, the B group, the C group.
Does the airplane have charging ports?
Great question! Unfortunately Southwest does not YET have power ports on ANY aircraft. However, they made an announcement last month saying that they will begin to put power ports (USB A and C) on newer 737 MAX Aircraft. Expect to see these power ports coming in 2023!
@@skylife_737 I heard that Southwest will also have 2 MAXes with retro liveries. Do you think the retro livery jets will be part of the newer MAXes with the power ports or will the retrojets come before the power ports and not be fitted with them? And do you think they will have any MAX7s that don't have the power ports?
@@Blank00 That’s a good question, however I’m not sure. Only the future will tell. I’m hoping by the end of 2022 we will get more news on the 737 MAXs for Southwest.
@@skylife_737 Will these improvements only be on the future MAXes or will WN retrofit their existing MAXes?
@@Blank00 Right now the decision is to only put the power ports in new orders. So only on the new aircraft. They do have ideas on POSSIBLY retrofitting existing aircraft in the future.
Such a great tripreport Colin!!! greetings from Colombia, I do tripreports here if you want to check them!!!!😁😁😁😁
I have a question for you... Did it just take a half of an hour to get from Los Angeles to Kahului? I have heard it takes up to 6 hours! So I am very confused.
It takes on average about 5 and a half hours. Hawaii has a 3 hour time difference for California.
This aircraft’s reputation will have to be recovered fully
Pouches!!!
so this is the plane type that had all the software issues and killed many people prior to the fix right ?
This is the plane type that had 3 MCAS related stab trim runaways. 2 of those 3 crews either incorrectly ran the stab trim runaway procedure (Ethiopian) or didn't run it at all (2nd LionAir crew). The third crew (1st LionAir crew) correctly ran the procedure and landed uneventfully.
@@achmedbincouscous2846could you dumb that down a little bit please? And when did this happen?
@@1mama402 Quick edit of my first comment, the crew that incorrectly ran the QRH procedure was not Indonesian, but rather Ethiopian. I'll go fix that post. If that what was throwing you off and you're familiar with the 3 MCAS related Stab Trim Runaway events, feel free to not read any further. The two LionAIr incidents were October 2018, the Ethiopian incident was March 2019. The media, Netflix and the MSFS kids who think they're experts love to scream "Greedy Boeing executives killing innocent people for fun and profit!!!!!" because yes, Boeing didn't tell crews ***AT FIRST*** about the existence of the MCAS system, which the media and the MSFS Kids just LOVE to insist "Forced the nose down in a death dive!!" Que dramatic music.... Basically, the pre modified version of MCAS could, under certain AOA Vane failure modes, lead to what presented itself as a Runaway Stabilizer Trim. The Boeing engineers basically knew that the DECADES old Runaway Stab Trim Quick Reference Handbook (QRH) procedure would correct any stab trim issue with the airplane in the event of an MCAS malfunction, and so they didn't bother to rewrite a procedure that had been completely fine since the 1960s. And, guess what? The first time a crew experienced an MCAS induced runaway stab trim, they ran the decades old procedure, got the airplane under control, flew back to their departure point and landed uneventfully. That crew was slower to recognize the runaway than we would like to see at my airline, but they eventually ran the procedure and stabilized the aircraft. When they landed back at base, they wrote up the malfunction for Maintenance, who promptly did exactly nothing. They signed the airplane off and returned it to the line for its next flight. Since the AOA vane was still malfunctioning (they didn't realize that was the root cause of the runaway stab trim) the next crew had the exact same malfunction. Runaway Stab Trim. Except they literally didn't even run the QRH procedure. Hit the water screaming (Literally. Read the CVR transcript) As the accident investigation started to reveal what had happened, Boeing disseminated that information to every MAX operator in the world. Including the Ethiopians. By the time of the Ethiopian MAX crash, every MAX pilot on Earth, absolutely, positively, 100% knew about MCAS, and knew what Boeing said about the possibility of an MCAS induced Runaway Stab Trim, and what crews should do in the event they experienced one. The media loves to pretend the Ethiopians were still unaware of the MCAS issue but that's completely false. The problem was, the Ethiopians were not exactly what we here in the USA would consider a capable crew. The Captain had spent many years as a Cruise Pilot on a widebody (cruise pilots do not takeoff or land, they sit at the controls and talk on the radio on long haul flights while the real pilots take turns resting back in the cabin) The First Officer literally had 400 hours of flight time. Not 400 in the MAX, 400 total time. In the USA, a 400 hour pilot is towing banners up and down the beach in a Piper Cub or flight instructing in a Cessna 172. To hold an Airline Pilots license in the USA you need 1500 hours of flight time. To be competitive to actually get a job at a major airline, you need many times that. IOW, that FO would never have been allowed anywhere near a 737 in the USA. So anyway, off they go and get an MCAS induced Stab Trim Runaway. To their credit, they did in fact do the QRH procedure. Except there were 2 teensy little problems. First, you need to understand the Autothrottle systems logic in a Boeing. When you disengage the A/T's, guess what happens to the thrust levers (And therefore, to the N1's) the answer is...ABSOLUTELYNOTHING. They stay at exactly the same place they were before you disconnect them. Which for our Ethiopian friends, was something in the low 90% range. In other words......takeoff or climb thrust, IE, very high thrust setting. Now to make things worse for them, they were also getting an intermittent stick shaker (due to the erroneous AOA data which was also driving the MCAS event) The problem was, they interpreted that stick shaker at face value. (If you're not a pilot, stick shakers are a warning system to inform the pilots they are approaching critical AOA. IOW, approaching an aerodynamic stall) So they responded the way pilots are trained to respond to an actual stick shaker. They pitched down to try to break the stall. Except there was no stall. And they were at 90 something percent on the N1s. Now 737s may look old and clunky (especially to MSFS kids) but they are in fact, very clean aerodynamically, especially the MAX with its new wing. SO they pitch down while still at very high thrust setting. Guess what happens. They accelerat. Fast. To WAYYYY past redline speed. Now, keep in mind, the Boeing manuals have said FOR DECADES, that at high IAS's it may be necessary to SLOOOOOW DOWN in order to aerodynamically unload the horizontal stab to the point that manual stab trimming is possible. Guess what happened to the Ethiopians? They had run the QRH procedure for the Stab Trim Runaway (good job, boys...) which had lead them to select the Stab Trim Cutoff switches. So now they need to use the manual stab trim wheel. Except they left their N1s at 90% and pitched the nose at the dirt to break a non existent stall. SO now they're doing something like 360KIAS and the 90 pound First Officer literally can't turn the manual trim wheel to try to get the nose pitched back up. Do they ever slow down (like the 737 manual has said might be necessary since the 1970s) Nope. They hit the ground at 90% N1 and deep into IAS redline. So as they're screaming downhill with climb thrust still set, guess what they try to do? REENGAGE the autopilot. Are you f**king kidding me? DIS engaging the A/P is literally the very first line item in the memory items and on the QRH procedure. They tried to REengage it not once. Not twice, but 6 (SIX!!!!) times. That's how much confidence these guys had in their stick and rudder skills. Intentionally UN-doing what the QRH procedure tells you to do. Then desperately trying to get the autopilot to save them. Because they couldn't fly the airplane. Ask any student pilot what the first thing they teach you on day 1 of student pilot ground school is. It is "Pitch + Power = Performance" Literally day 1 of student pilot class. So after all the dust settled (from the investigation, not from the impact) guess what Boeing was forced to change in the QRH? They were forced to add line items which literally say to use thrust settings and flight controls to fly the airplane. Nothing else changed, they basically just added those two line items because the Ethiopians had so spectacularly F'd up the actual piloting part of the QRH that the Boeing lawyers made the engineers put it in the book. Had they just manually reduced their thrust settings they never would have accelerated to the point of not being able to manually trim the airplane. Had they not pitched down to break a non existent stall they similarly would not have accelerated to that point. But those two errors together put them in a speed regime that would not allow manual trimming. Now I know that doesn't fit the media narrative that a Third World trained 400 hour pilot is the equal of say, a Delta pilot or a Southwest Airlines pilot with 30 times that experience (for the record, I'm approaching 65 times that experience) but the reality is, Boeing assumes a certain level of pilot proficiency when they design their airplanes and especially when they build their non normal procedures for that airplane. I say that not as a racist Boeing executive or whatever the media is calling them, but as a 737 Captain with 18,000 hours in the airplane, and more importantly as someone who has completed the FAA mandated MAX Return to Service Training which was implemented as part of the ungrounding. That training included flying the Ethiopian profile in the simulator, along with all sorts of MCAS and non MCAS related flight control failures. I can honestly tell you that if a crew does the procedure correctly (key word, correctly) it is a complete and total non event. The PF can fly the airplane with one hand and drink a cup of coffee while the PM manually trims the stab wheel. So why was the airplane grounded for 2 years? Mostly media hysteria and the glacial pace of government bureaucracy. Was Boeing stupid and a bit sketchy in their initial handling of the airplane? Absolutely. As a pilot, I want to know if they change the coffee maker design in the galley or the toilet paper holder in the lav. Not being told about a system like MCAS until the airplane was already flying revenue flights was completely unacceptable. Making a second AOA input on the system an extra cost option instead of standard (as it is now) was completely unacceptable. They absolutely did a bunch of shady stuff. And Boeing has rightly been crucified for their actions. But the bottom line is, the first LionAir crew didn't know about MCAS and used the decades old QRH procedure to successfully handle an MCAS failure and safely land the airplane. The Ethiopians knew about MCAS, ran the QRH procedure so badly that they literally tried to UN run it and wound up in the dirt. I don't care what the media says. I don't care what the MSFS kids who watched the NetFlix video about Boeing say. As someone who flies 737s for a living, and has been flying them for 2 decades, I can tell you that it doesn't matter if it was induced by a faulty AOA input in the MCAS system. It doesn't matter if it's caused by a burned out trim motor. It doesn't matter if it was caused by hostile little green men from Pluto pointing a death ray at the airplane. The bottom line is, a Runaway Stab Trim in a 737 should never, ever, be a fatal event.
The interior looks like a 1970's night club. lol.. nice flight.
Hahaha it does. Thanks
i fly swa all the time but the plane doesn't look like this!
That's because this is on one of their brand new 737 MAX 8 Planes with Boeing's Sky Interior, featuring mood lights, better seats, and more efficient overhead bins