the story line is so elaborate, and detailed, even now after viewing it for almost the 10th time im still in awe of its complexities. truly is a masterpiece in my opinion, the likes of Tolkiens....if it could be compared to.
After this series Moebius started opened a high end restaurant where he had an infamous argument with a food critic. 7:09 "Consider the sauce before you judge me too harshly"
the fillers of nosgoth, pristine, whole and uncorrupted. i had never before beheld these breads, cheeses and other miscellaneous snacks in such uncorrupted veils.
@@Damien_Bathory perhaps they might. A remaster/remake while keeping the original voice lines and music would be excellent and is in the realm of plausible possibility. I'm hoping that CD know their older fanbase well!
This is the most profound videogame writing I have ever seen, regarding death, life, reincarnation, the nature of destiny and whether destiny is the be-all and end all. I wish that games were written like this today.
It's been over ten years since it reached the apparent (but hopefully not ultimate) conclusion, and still, nothing has reached the level that Legacy of Kain attained when it came to storytelling. It still upsets me that this series doesn't get the recognition it deserves for a setting the bar so much higher in terms of what a great story could be in a game, and the incomparable voice work that set it apart from the rest. I still quote this series today, because the complexity and brilliance of the dialogue remains a standout in the medium. These are games that capture your attention and truly get you invested in the outcome of the story. Truly a masterpiece.
unfortunately, based on the online multiplayer game "Nosgoth" (set in-between Raziel's execution and return in Soul Reaver) it seems that the series is going the way of Crash Bandicoot.
Sadly, it does. I really wish Square Enix knew what they had on their hands. People have been clamoring to see a continuation of this story for years, and even if Amy Hennig and a lot of the writers aren't working on it, I have confidence in the abilities of the team to craft a good story out of what is already in place. They'd really have to try hard to fuck it up badly, the story is that strong. Plus, more delightful scenery-chewing from Simon Templeman can always bail the story out if it's in a bind. That man can make ANYTHING sound epic.
From I've been reading on the lore, they've been treating this series with a lot of respect. I think they're making Nosgoth to get a new fanbase because they definitely want to bring this series back. I was actually shocked at how detailed and faithful they remained to the lore of this series
When the time displacement happened, Moebius did take a massive risk being there, since the one thing that would have ruined everything is Raziels free will, changing fate in that moment, so the old goat had to pull out every manipulating tactic he could muster.
I don't know how they do it, but just by hearing Mobius speak you know he's a deceitful liar, whereas when Kain speaks you know he's telling the truth. Unparalleled voice-acting in this series.
Kain probably travelled forward in time to around the time when Raziel returned to the Material Realm, which is why he was unchanged, while the others are devolved beasts.
I wanted to add in addition to these great posts some info on the source of the corruption of Nosgoth also: It is suggested early on that the collapse of the Pillars/Kain's decision is the source, however as the story unfolds it becomes apparent that it is actually caused by the Wheel of Fate.
The demon behind Dumah is possibly either a reference to the prolific amount of vampires he killed, only in the purple he's wearing instead of blue, (take note of how he's holding his sword up, and the screaming of the demon behind him) or maybe a reference to wraith Raziel killing him, although I don't know why Dumah would be the only one with that image, since he killed them all. I think it's more likely a reflection of his career as a vampire hunter.
@@retardedvelociraptorWell if I’m being honest combat is a bit repetitive at times, both in SR1 and SR2, It’s not bad just not great but the Story and writing is brilliant.
did anyone happen to notice the look on Vorador's face. "Vampire's meddling in the affairs of men. Look where its brought us." i think that thought bothers him a little
its because its when Moebius reveals himself to Raziel as the bad guy, up until that point he's pretending to be Raziels ally even though Raziel doesn't believe it, his voice still changes at certain points
All six? There are nine guardians. And we can see all of them in Blood Omen. They are: Ariel/Kain for Balance, Nupraptor for Mind, Bane for Nature, DeJoule for Energy, Malek for Conflict, Azumith for Dimension, Moebius for Time, Anarcrothe for States, and Mortanius for Death. Of course there must be many more guardians, being the ancient vampires the first.
the reaver that kain uses in defiance is from the time of yanos aldrin, before william and well before kain. at some point in kains future he will have to take that soul reaver back to when raziel killed "himself" so that it can be given to william, broken by kain (in blood omen), fixed by raziel's wraith blade (in SR2), placed before kain (again in blood omen) so he can use it as his "right hand" untill breaking it over the wraith of his first son (in SR1) and starting it over again
I love how the way the characters talk has rubbed off on everyone. most of you had not even heard of constructed sentences used here lol(least of all on youtube). This game is a good tool for literature.
Defiance provides a double flick on Moebius. Once by Kain, then by Raziel. Once with the Blood Reaver, then with the Spirit Reaver. Once through his body, then through his soul. A masterpiece of a revenge against a manipulator forsaken by his master.
It's quite possible that being housed within the reaver so long, the wraith blade adopted the characteristics and magics of the reaver. recall that when Kain broke the blade upon raziel, the wraith form took the shape of the physical blade in the spectral realm, and in defiance as well. also the forges were built to empower the reaver, they would only be able to be compatible with it's magics
I understand it follows a "Back to the Future" variant timeline system. The ripples of their actions in each timeline spread out slightly differently, yet at times it leads to some of the same events. Path of least resistance while admitting only the slightest alteration. The corruption might have affected his mentality even though it hadn't happened yet. Sort of a temporal pre-shock, in this case it involves the psychological effect happening before the rest of it happened.
i think its because Raziel discovered mobius is a servant of the EG, and knowing his reputation for lies and deception, it probably put doubts into raziels mind on his apparent "benefactor"...
Yes Defiance is the last game that this team ever made. As a finale it's only partly satisfying, as it completes the story of Raziel but there's still the question as to whether Kain's story is truly complete or not, that's why everyone has such a confused reaction to Blood Omen 2.
NetMoverSitan I know, but it's the fact that it came out without any serious announcement and the soul reaver team don't really acknowledge it much, that's what causes everyone to shirk that one off.
The main theme of the Pillars and the position of Kain's importance, as the Balance-appointed guardian after Ariel's death, is to reestablish Nosgoth back into the possession of the Vampires. The Pillars were created by the Ancients to bind their enemy -- the "Hylden" -- into their prison-dimension. In fact in the loosely canon Blood Omen 2, we see briefly the "Hylden" culture and their culture. Yet, that is only brief, but have not seen the entire picture of this omitted aspect of the series.
There is still a story yet to be told. Kain may have battled the Hylden but that was before he received the cleansed form of the balance reaver. He is still Nosgoths final hope for restoration. And now he has the means by which to cleanse them. I have a feeling that a new story would be something like him seeking out the new guardians and teaching them while combating the Hylden who would clearly oppose him.
His Omniscience might have something to do with that, which allowed him to interact with different versions of Raziel and Kain in a linear fashion, even though it's in the "wrong" order. The psychic attack 30 years before the events of Blood Omen through the "local" version of him would've spread throughout his timeline (at least to the point where his abilities manifested) which is why he's much the same in all times. Also it was just Mortanius who was part of that cult.
Moebius was loyal to the Elder God, that giant squid was the one who was pulling his strings, as for Mortanius...he agreed with Moebius, although he later regretted it, he was possessed (at least some of the time) by the Hylden, although exactly when this happened is unknown, although it's certainly before the time of Kain's human birth. The cult of Hash'ah'gik was a front of the Hylden (the enemy of the Ancients and the Elder God) to collapse the pillars.
Legacy Of Kain: Defiance is the final game, the end boss is Kain fused with Janos Audrin (I think it's been a few years) and Janos dies and Kain returns to himself and Raziel becomes wrapped around the original Soul Reaver as a wraith blade and the series ends with either Kain or Raziel saying: "You are where you always should have been...as my right hand." And it shows Kain standing there wielding Raziel as the pillars are restoring themselves. Search "LOK: Defiance cut scenes."
Simply put, Moebius' chronoplast chambers allow individuals to see the possible outcomes in different time periods. Raziel sees these timelines in Soul reaver 1. The vision with the red soul reaver is the fire reaver on Janos' balcony, but that would've never happened if Raziel killed Kain and subsequently got absorbed into the reaver. The same with vision of the spirit reaver taken from Ariel's soul. therefore, the timeline still allows individuals to see possible paths should a paradox occur
I love reading the comments in here since its about trying to understand the lore and actions that cause the story to push forward. I certainly love this game for it :]
ever see the butterfly effect? the star could change the past, but remembered both timelines, my understanding is that a timeline does not completely disappear if it is remembered. it was not kain that created the paradox it was the reaver. it remembers a version of itself killing william. because it remembers this, the new timeline is just stable enough to exist. best answer I can give.
Oh man, I remember playing these games when I was like, 8-10 years old. Maybe even younger. I barely understood the story, but it was just so fascinating in terms of graphics and writing. ^^ I'll have to get these games on Steam someday.
remember that the Hylden lord took over Janos Audron so they can open the portal so the Hylden could escape in Blood Omen 2? What happened in Soul Reaver 2 set up the events for Blood Omen 1. Remember that Cain explained everything to Raziel at the Pillars on Soul Reaver 2. Also Janos Audron's (Heart of Darkness) heart was to be inserted into Kain after his human form got killed. all the Hylden stuff at the end of Defiance sets up the Hylden takeover on Blood Omen 2.
My theory is that the free will aspect only applies to when and how Kain dies by Raziel's hand. He probably tried to change that throughout various alternate timelines, like the original concept for SR1's ending where Raziel wipes out all the vampires in future Nosgoth. Kain probably saw that ending and decides to plot to change it, though the end result is the same; he still dies by Raziel's hand. Having Raziel not go through with it in SR2 gives him the opportunity to stay in this timeline?
That's where the Soul Reaver comes into play, the soul reaver is by it's very nature a Paradox, the first paradox. That's why when you bring two of the reavers together it allows you to change the timeline and create paradox's, a paradox within a paradox is just too much for the timeline, and it can only deal with one at a time. This is my theory at least.
Maybe since Moebius is a servant to the wheel of fate he is not subject to the changes that occur in the time paradox thanks to his master. And for Kain from what I can think of if something like a time paradox happens it has a sense of inertia where as that once an action has occurred it continues still from that point depending how big the impact on history it is. There is also the possibility of those paradoxes fixing themselves by making a parallel universe based on that action onward.
when the paradoxes are created, the current timeline is destroyed and a new one is created. Only Kain, Raziel remember the former timelines because they were the causes of the paradoxes and Moebius because he's the Guardian of Time. When Kain killed William, the new timeline is that Kain had ALWAYS killed William at some point, and that he had never gone into the past. However, the Kain we know still knows this because he caused the paradox
the visions from the chronoplast show possible timelines, but those only become possible if a paradox is created because the second timeline dictated that raziel kills kain at the pivotal moment and then ends up being sucked into the reaver. it was only after raziel altered history by not killing kain that the vision involving ariel became possible. in the new timeline, the kain reaver is not possible because raziel will inevitably sacrifice himself
He created a new timeline of events but Kain remains the same due to the Reaver. William was born and turned into a Tyrant well before Kain's birth. Kain travelling back to time and killing William births Moebius' crusade but Kain himself has not changed. He didn't travel to a parallel universe where a new Kain exists. He is the same Kain who was urged to murder William before becoming the Nemesis because the Reaver allowed him to not be "expelled" from history as you suggest.
Well for two reasons when Ariel was murdered Kain was still a fetus at the moment and the mental poison that seized the other guardians caused by Nuraptor that infected even Kain at his most vulnerable. And if the Future Kain were to save Ariel it would've introduced a very fatal paradox that would've result in derailment of time. Ariel's murder was what I think destined to happen to make way for Kain for his true purpose known.
The Reaver was the Key as mentioned many times in the game. Your question is valid but the Reaver crumbles the reasoning under it. It allows the paradox, into a paradox. It's difficult to make sense of some times but it does make sense :D
I always thought that the Pillars were erected to keep Nosgoth in natural harmony, which would explain why Nosgoth was being 'wracked by cataclysms' in Soul Reaver, millenia after their corruption. Perhaps their purpose in keeping the Hylden at bay, locked in the Demon Realm, was a later addition by the Ancient Vampires that the human Guardians forgot before or after their rebellion.
Kain, knowing the existence of multiple timelines is not a paradox, the timeline recognizes his future self as the irritant that causes them, therefore one who causes something should be witness to its consequences. Remember, Kain was originally destined to be the Scion of Balance, but that destiny (and the timeline it existed in) was altered by Moebius. However, if Moebius erased that timeline how could Kain know of that prophecy?
Still a great storyline to this day, even if LoK2 fumbled the storyline with the ending, it's still so well put together. Still hoping for a new addition to the series
What a disappointing reply from a someone who professes to enjoy discussing this amazing series. I wasn't refuting any earlier point but bringing up a new one. :/
The Pillars were corrupted when Nupraptor went insane at Ariel's murder (which coincided with Kain's birth and ascension to Balance Guardian). They may have definitively stated a reason but for me it's that they do not choose new Guardians while corrupt, and Kain damned them to eternal corruption in failing to sacrifice himself to purify the Balance Pillar at the end of Blood Omen. That's what I think anyway
by prolonging raziel's life raziel was able to purify the soul of his wraith blade and the souls of all of the past balance guardians (including kain thus allowing him to truly be the scion of balance) and therefor when he entered the vampire reaver in LOKD it was as a pure, sane and holy spirit as opposed to the corrupted, half mad, bloodthirsty demon he would have been after killing "himself" and his brethren in SR2 if kain had not pulled the vampire blade form him.
![ทุกครั้งที่หลับตา (Lucid Dream) - AYLA's [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4i1OBAQyv58/mqdefault.jpg)
It's nice to come back to this once in a while just to enjoy the story and the incredible voice acting
Same
the story line is so elaborate, and detailed, even now after viewing it for almost the 10th time im still in awe of its complexities. truly is a masterpiece in my opinion, the likes of Tolkiens....if it could be compared to.
I love how the Sarafan Stronghold music syncs perfectly with the conversation between Raziel and Moebius
i like that there are still people watching this
besides me
I literally rewatch the whole series probably at least once a year
@@brandonvicbossmorgan i do it like at least once a month
@@cosminaalex you're saying you don't have the entire series on loop 24/7?
@@cosminaalex same :D
@@we-must-live I'm not saying that, I'm just saying I watch it AT LEAST once a month :D
Seems like my old comment no longer exists. I'll restate: "The last great vampire story"
It exist if u didn't delete it or uploader deleted either way it should still be there youtube doesn't delete old comments
After this series Moebius started opened a high end restaurant where he had an infamous argument with a food critic.
7:09
"Consider the sauce before you judge me too harshly"
The wheel of feta must turn
lol
the fillers of nosgoth, pristine, whole and uncorrupted.
i had never before beheld these breads, cheeses and other miscellaneous snacks in such uncorrupted veils.
@@we-must-liveyet something that I think may be the ghostly remainder of my stomach resonated within me at the sight
God, these games were mind-blowingly awesome
are*
@@kespec were they are not making anymore of these series hence were
@@Damien_Bathory perhaps they might. A remaster/remake while keeping the original voice lines and music would be excellent and is in the realm of plausible possibility. I'm hoping that CD know their older fanbase well!
I loved the soundtrack and still do. Every once in a while I have to look up gameplay on TH-cam and listen to it. A remake of this game is in order.
tony jay's voice is amazing. RIP good sir
This isn't even just the best video game series ever created. It is simply the greatest content any human has ever conceived.
This is the most profound videogame writing I have ever seen, regarding death, life, reincarnation, the nature of destiny and whether destiny is the be-all and end all. I wish that games were written like this today.
It's been over ten years since it reached the apparent (but hopefully not ultimate) conclusion, and still, nothing has reached the level that Legacy of Kain attained when it came to storytelling. It still upsets me that this series doesn't get the recognition it deserves for a setting the bar so much higher in terms of what a great story could be in a game, and the incomparable voice work that set it apart from the rest. I still quote this series today, because the complexity and brilliance of the dialogue remains a standout in the medium. These are games that capture your attention and truly get you invested in the outcome of the story. Truly a masterpiece.
Too right.
unfortunately, based on the online multiplayer game "Nosgoth" (set in-between Raziel's execution and return in Soul Reaver) it seems that the series is going the way of Crash Bandicoot.
Sadly, it does. I really wish Square Enix knew what they had on their hands. People have been clamoring to see a continuation of this story for years, and even if Amy Hennig and a lot of the writers aren't working on it, I have confidence in the abilities of the team to craft a good story out of what is already in place. They'd really have to try hard to fuck it up badly, the story is that strong. Plus, more delightful scenery-chewing from Simon Templeman can always bail the story out if it's in a bind. That man can make ANYTHING sound epic.
From I've been reading on the lore, they've been treating this series with a lot of respect. I think they're making Nosgoth to get a new fanbase because they definitely want to bring this series back. I was actually shocked at how detailed and faithful they remained to the lore of this series
***** Twilight vampires are p****s! Nosgoth Vampires are NOT!
The voice actors in these games were amazing
When the time displacement happened, Moebius did take a massive risk being there, since the one thing that would have ruined everything is Raziels free will, changing fate in that moment, so the old goat had to pull out every manipulating tactic he could muster.
I love Raziel's narration. The story is pretty deep too. I really regret not having played this game in my childhood.
I don't know how they do it, but just by hearing Mobius speak you know he's a deceitful liar, whereas when Kain speaks you know he's telling the truth. Unparalleled voice-acting in this series.
I have a great feeling this game will be revived sooner than we think
I love this series. Truly a hidden gem that just keeps getting better with time.
raziel voice is spectacular, as well as kains, I played all the games back in the day, big ups for having this up. was a good rewatch.
"Spare me you elaborate metaphors, Kain"
... come on dude.
I have quoted this my whole life since playing this game haha
Raziel Has got the be one of my favorite characters in video games period.
Kain probably travelled forward in time to around the time when Raziel returned to the Material Realm, which is why he was unchanged, while the others are devolved beasts.
This series deserves a PS4 reboot!!!
Ps5
@@gustavmaia thank you for your elegant taste my brother
I spit on u
one of the most complicated and the best stories ever
This game has the best character ever made especially Raziel!
21:16 I've always pictured kain just saying "I know youre there" every 30 or so seconds until raziel actually shows up
I wanted to add in addition to these great posts some info on the source of the corruption of Nosgoth also:
It is suggested early on that the collapse of the Pillars/Kain's decision is the source, however as the story unfolds it becomes apparent that it is actually caused by the Wheel of Fate.
The demon behind Dumah is possibly either a reference to the prolific amount of vampires he killed, only in the purple he's wearing instead of blue, (take note of how he's holding his sword up, and the screaming of the demon behind him) or maybe a reference to wraith Raziel killing him, although I don't know why Dumah would be the only one with that image, since he killed them all. I think it's more likely a reflection of his career as a vampire hunter.
I think the art style keeps Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance from aging too badly. I can still play them while being quite comfortable with the graphics.
The gameplay is fun too! It's like a dark version of Zelda.
@@retardedvelociraptorWell if I’m being honest combat is a bit repetitive at times, both in SR1 and SR2, It’s not bad just not great but the Story and writing is brilliant.
ending 2020 and still waiting for more games, remaster, remake, SOMETHING
"The proof that an epic story writing and brilliant voice acting is enough to create a brilliant game"
Couldn't have said it better myself
It's enough to create a brilliant story. The game itself is hit and miss. Blood Omen, and Soul reaver 1 were great.
I wonder if Moebius would lend me his staff so I can kill the Twilight vampires?
no, he wasn't killed, just defeated.
"The Pillars don't belong to THEEEMMMMMMMMM, Raziel." lol
+MetalGearSteel They belong [pause] to *US*
+Ron Hatcher There's a third option
+Mircea Alex A monumental secret
Ron Hatcher but it's a secret you will have to discover for yourself.
@@arieldebarros unearth your destiny, raziel
did anyone happen to notice the look on Vorador's face. "Vampire's meddling in the affairs of men. Look where its brought us." i think that thought bothers him a little
@Revarus Malder: All the guardians were infected with Nupraptor's madness, it was just more noticable in some of them.
best story and voice acting in video gaming, bar none.
vampires with philsophy , much better then vampires that around today in fiction
15:30 "Now that i know you fear me,i needn't concern myself with you"
Bad mistake Raziel...bad mistake...
Still awesome to watch after all these years
It's also why at the end of SR2 Kain gains new memories after pulling the sword from Raziel
I miss these games so much.
its because its when Moebius reveals himself to Raziel as the bad guy, up until that point he's pretending to be Raziels ally even though Raziel doesn't believe it, his voice still changes at certain points
This was my first playstation 2 game.. Completely loved this series and I hope they reboot it soon.
All six? There are nine guardians. And we can see all of them in Blood Omen. They are: Ariel/Kain for Balance, Nupraptor for Mind, Bane for Nature, DeJoule for Energy, Malek for Conflict, Azumith for Dimension, Moebius for Time, Anarcrothe for States, and Mortanius for Death. Of course there must be many more guardians, being the ancient vampires the first.
If memory serves, Vorador didn’t slaughter the Circle the way Moebius claimed to Raziel, he turned them into vampires.
I'm not the only one that likes that Sarafan stronghold theme
This game needs a reboot
Man just imagine going through the demon realm as Kain WITH the maximized Soul Reaver. It would be the bomb.
bassey efiom the closest you'll get to that is Nosgoth a purely PvP game based in the LoK universe
No thanks. they would ruin it anyway. some things are better enjoyed how they were in the past
Remake, not reboot. Redo the graphics, update some of the game mechanics, but leave the story, voice acting, and music the hell alone.
Best game series. The concept of trying to break fate's hold. Magnificent.
thanks to your uploads it made it possible for me to make my videos so thanks
In 2021 and i still want this series to return
the reaver that kain uses in defiance is from the time of yanos aldrin, before william and well before kain. at some point in kains future he will have to take that soul reaver back to when raziel killed "himself" so that it can be given to william, broken by kain (in blood omen), fixed by raziel's wraith blade (in SR2), placed before kain (again in blood omen) so he can use it as his "right hand" untill breaking it over the wraith of his first son (in SR1) and starting it over again
I love how the way the characters talk has rubbed off on everyone. most of you had not even heard of constructed sentences used here lol(least of all on youtube). This game is a good tool for literature.
Very true, i had to look some words up in the dictionary
@@bobloerakker7010 I remember Vey Victus in Blood Omen. Finally had to google it. Now i know why Kain would shout it every time he killed something.
This is amazing. I grew up to this. Kain is like a role-model!
That's a tall order for with no Elder God voice.
this shits so badass, wish i played it when i had the time
I always feel like this is how Dark souls would go with dialogue.
Raziel flicks Moebius at 13:55. Best moment in the series.
*boop*
Defiance provides a double flick on Moebius.
Once by Kain, then by Raziel.
Once with the Blood Reaver, then with the Spirit Reaver.
Once through his body, then through his soul.
A masterpiece of a revenge against a manipulator forsaken by his master.
As much as everyone one would love to, new Kain games wouldn't be the same without Tony Jay. :'(
the last part of the intro is just perfect
It's quite possible that being housed within the reaver so long, the wraith blade adopted the characteristics and magics of the reaver. recall that when Kain broke the blade upon raziel, the wraith form took the shape of the physical blade in the spectral realm, and in defiance as well. also the forges were built to empower the reaver, they would only be able to be compatible with it's magics
I understand it follows a "Back to the Future" variant timeline system.
The ripples of their actions in each timeline spread out slightly differently, yet at times it leads to some of the same events.
Path of least resistance while admitting only the slightest alteration.
The corruption might have affected his mentality even though it hadn't happened yet. Sort of a temporal pre-shock, in this case it involves the psychological effect happening before the rest of it happened.
i think its because Raziel discovered mobius is a servant of the EG, and knowing his reputation for lies and deception, it probably put doubts into raziels mind on his apparent "benefactor"...
Yes Defiance is the last game that this team ever made. As a finale it's only partly satisfying, as it completes the story of Raziel but there's still the question as to whether Kain's story is truly complete or not, that's why everyone has such a confused reaction to Blood Omen 2.
Blood Omen 2 is set between Blood Omen and Soul Reaver (after the paradox at the end of this game)
NetMoverSitan I know, but it's the fact that it came out without any serious announcement and the soul reaver team don't really acknowledge it much, that's what causes everyone to shirk that one off.
It's the "Black Sheep" of the series, much like Metroid: Other M is with the Metroid series and Sonic '06 is with the Sonic series.
I love how he's the only character who doesn't need to wear pants =P
no, the Elder God is the god of the ancients, not the Hylden. The Hylden don't worship him, they despise him
i love how Raziel can talk but he has no jaw or tongue.
The main theme of the Pillars and the position of Kain's importance, as the Balance-appointed guardian after Ariel's death, is to reestablish Nosgoth back into the possession of the Vampires. The Pillars were created by the Ancients to bind their enemy -- the "Hylden" -- into their prison-dimension. In fact in the loosely canon Blood Omen 2, we see briefly the "Hylden" culture and their culture. Yet, that is only brief, but have not seen the entire picture of this omitted aspect of the series.
There is still a story yet to be told. Kain may have battled the Hylden but that was before he received the cleansed form of the balance reaver. He is still Nosgoths final hope for restoration. And now he has the means by which to cleanse them. I have a feeling that a new story would be something like him seeking out the new guardians and teaching them while combating the Hylden who would clearly oppose him.
His Omniscience might have something to do with that, which allowed him to interact with different versions of Raziel and Kain in a linear fashion, even though it's in the "wrong" order. The psychic attack 30 years before the events of Blood Omen through the "local" version of him would've spread throughout his timeline (at least to the point where his abilities manifested) which is why he's much the same in all times.
Also it was just Mortanius who was part of that cult.
I miss this game!
Moebius was loyal to the Elder God, that giant squid was the one who was pulling his strings, as for Mortanius...he agreed with Moebius, although he later regretted it, he was possessed (at least some of the time) by the Hylden, although exactly when this happened is unknown, although it's certainly before the time of Kain's human birth.
The cult of Hash'ah'gik was a front of the Hylden (the enemy of the Ancients and the Elder God) to collapse the pillars.
Epic story writing and brilliant voice acting indeed!
Goddamn, what incredible dialogue
Legacy Of Kain: Defiance is the final game, the end boss is Kain fused with Janos Audrin (I think it's been a few years) and Janos dies and Kain returns to himself and Raziel becomes wrapped around the original Soul Reaver as a wraith blade and the series ends with either Kain or Raziel saying: "You are where you always should have been...as my right hand." And it shows Kain standing there wielding Raziel as the pillars are restoring themselves. Search "LOK: Defiance cut scenes."
This game has a great storyline i remember playing this on my psone Now Can you guys please Make One On next Gen
Simply put, Moebius' chronoplast chambers allow individuals to see the possible outcomes in different time periods. Raziel sees these timelines in Soul reaver 1. The vision with the red soul reaver is the fire reaver on Janos' balcony, but that would've never happened if Raziel killed Kain and subsequently got absorbed into the reaver. The same with vision of the spirit reaver taken from Ariel's soul. therefore, the timeline still allows individuals to see possible paths should a paradox occur
I love reading the comments in here since its about trying to understand the lore and actions that cause the story to push forward. I certainly love this game for it :]
ever see the butterfly effect? the star could change the past, but remembered both timelines, my understanding is that a timeline does not completely disappear if it is remembered. it was not kain that created the paradox it was the reaver. it remembers a version of itself killing william. because it remembers this, the new timeline is just stable enough to exist. best answer I can give.
Oh man, I remember playing these games when I was like, 8-10 years old. Maybe even younger. I barely understood the story, but it was just so fascinating in terms of graphics and writing. ^^ I'll have to get these games on Steam someday.
remember that the Hylden lord took over Janos Audron so they can open the portal so the Hylden could escape in Blood Omen 2? What happened in Soul Reaver 2 set up the events for Blood Omen 1. Remember that Cain explained everything to Raziel at the Pillars on Soul Reaver 2. Also Janos Audron's (Heart of Darkness) heart was to be inserted into Kain after his human form got killed. all the Hylden stuff at the end of Defiance sets up the Hylden takeover on Blood Omen 2.
My theory is that the free will aspect only applies to when and how Kain dies by Raziel's hand. He probably tried to change that throughout various alternate timelines, like the original concept for SR1's ending where Raziel wipes out all the vampires in future Nosgoth. Kain probably saw that ending and decides to plot to change it, though the end result is the same; he still dies by Raziel's hand.
Having Raziel not go through with it in SR2 gives him the opportunity to stay in this timeline?
Legacy of Kain is a masterpiece!
That's where the Soul Reaver comes into play, the soul reaver is by it's very nature a Paradox, the first paradox. That's why when you bring two of the reavers together it allows you to change the timeline and create paradox's, a paradox within a paradox is just too much for the timeline, and it can only deal with one at a time. This is my theory at least.
Maybe since Moebius is a servant to the wheel of fate he is not subject to the changes that occur in the time paradox thanks to his master. And for Kain from what I can think of if something like a time paradox happens it has a sense of inertia where as that once an action has occurred it continues still from that point depending how big the impact on history it is. There is also the possibility of those paradoxes fixing themselves by making a parallel universe based on that action onward.
Gotta admit, the Elder God's a pretty nice employer.
AStupidLamp He doesn't offer much in the way of severance packages though. Just kinda feeds you to soul eaters.
when the paradoxes are created, the current timeline is destroyed and a new one is created. Only Kain, Raziel remember the former timelines because they were the causes of the paradoxes and Moebius because he's the Guardian of Time.
When Kain killed William, the new timeline is that Kain had ALWAYS killed William at some point, and that he had never gone into the past. However, the Kain we know still knows this because he caused the paradox
the visions from the chronoplast show possible timelines, but those only become possible if a paradox is created because the second timeline dictated that raziel kills kain at the pivotal moment and then ends up being sucked into the reaver. it was only after raziel altered history by not killing kain that the vision involving ariel became possible. in the new timeline, the kain reaver is not possible because raziel will inevitably sacrifice himself
He created a new timeline of events but Kain remains the same due to the Reaver. William was born and turned into a Tyrant well before Kain's birth. Kain travelling back to time and killing William births Moebius' crusade but Kain himself has not changed. He didn't travel to a parallel universe where a new Kain exists. He is the same Kain who was urged to murder William before becoming the Nemesis because the Reaver allowed him to not be "expelled" from history as you suggest.
Well for two reasons when Ariel was murdered Kain was still a fetus at the moment and the mental poison that seized the other guardians caused by Nuraptor that infected even Kain at his most vulnerable. And if the Future Kain were to save Ariel it would've introduced a very fatal paradox that would've result in derailment of time. Ariel's murder was what I think destined to happen to make way for Kain for his true purpose known.
The Reaver was the Key as mentioned many times in the game. Your question is valid but the Reaver crumbles the reasoning under it. It allows the paradox, into a paradox. It's difficult to make sense of some times but it does make sense :D
imagine a game with vorador as the protagonist..
I always thought that the Pillars were erected to keep Nosgoth in natural harmony, which would explain why Nosgoth was being 'wracked by cataclysms' in Soul Reaver, millenia after their corruption. Perhaps their purpose in keeping the Hylden at bay, locked in the Demon Realm, was a later addition by the Ancient Vampires that the human Guardians forgot before or after their rebellion.
Kain, knowing the existence of multiple timelines is not a paradox, the timeline recognizes his future self as the irritant that causes them, therefore one who causes something should be witness to its consequences. Remember, Kain was originally destined to be the Scion of Balance, but that destiny (and the timeline it existed in) was altered by Moebius. However, if Moebius erased that timeline how could Kain know of that prophecy?
Raziel's and Kain's. I want Raziel to deliver my eulogy.
Still a great storyline to this day, even if LoK2 fumbled the storyline with the ending, it's still so well put together. Still hoping for a new addition to the series
What a disappointing reply from a someone who professes to enjoy discussing this amazing series. I wasn't refuting any earlier point but bringing up a new one. :/
Wish they would remake them.
this may not be a graphic or story pinnacle.. But the writing is something to listen to.
The Pillars were corrupted when Nupraptor went insane at Ariel's murder (which coincided with Kain's birth and ascension to Balance Guardian). They may have definitively stated a reason but for me it's that they do not choose new Guardians while corrupt, and Kain damned them to eternal corruption in failing to sacrifice himself to purify the Balance Pillar at the end of Blood Omen. That's what I think anyway
by prolonging raziel's life raziel was able to purify the soul of his wraith blade and the souls of all of the past balance guardians (including kain thus allowing him to truly be the scion of balance) and therefor when he entered the vampire reaver in LOKD it was as a pure, sane and holy spirit as opposed to the corrupted, half mad, bloodthirsty demon he would have been after killing "himself" and his brethren in SR2 if kain had not pulled the vampire blade form him.