Congratulations on your purchase! As long as everything is distorted, the bass frequencies will disappear for a while! With warming up there will be fireworks of sound!
I love the way you described the Rodrigo y Gabriela tone. Very similar to how I feel listening to my Bach grands. I’m not saying they are in the same league as the Beethoven, the Bach is a much smaller speaker with less output obviously. But it is that Vienna acoustics sound and excellent tone that you can practically feel in your bones
I have a pair of VA Beethoven grand SE in rosewood. They are powered by my Accuphase E-370 integrated amp. They sound excellent together to my taste. I cant stand harsh sounding speakers/electronics but here I get nothing of that and can simply enjoy the music.
@@2ChannelListening this cabinet just like every make uses veneered MDF not "real wood throughout". the low impedance is really a turn off. GR Research condemned the Mozart's drivers the same ones in the pair here.
It’s a shame Vienna Acoustics doesn’t still make the Mahlers or even the Strauss. I own a pair of the Mahlers. They are incredible! Highly under-rated. I have them in gloss black. I have owned them for about 11 years. I use a McIntosh C52 preamp and MC452 amp and they are magical together!!!!! A “must hear” speaker! I like Peachtree products as well. Great sound for a great price.
That's some serious front end gear, I bet they do sing indeed! Thanks. Unfortunately, I have seen several brands post Covid take a stand against affordable gear. Several brands have straight up doubled their prices for the same products three years prior, and eliminate entry level offerings. Just sad. That's why I spent so much time building out that manufacturer list of modest bookshelf speaker offerings. I'm up to 74 manufacturers and counting!
I too own the Mahler's, but in the beach wood, driving them with some Pass Labs XA 60.5's mono blocks and an Audio Research 5SE pre. The only speakers that iv'e heard that compete with the Mahler's are the Magico S series and some of the Wilson's.
Great review, I don't know how you can let them go! I sense you'll be chasing that sound down the track. Also thought I'd share sound nice vocal tracks: This Love by Chlara, Beautiful life by Chantal Chamberland, I'll Follow Your Trail by Sean Rowe, Liberty by Anette Askvik, Imagine by Chris Klafford, Fall into my arms by Lucinda Peters, Landslide by Stacey Kent, Fix it by Lady Blackbird, Angel by Sarah Mclachlan, September in Montreal by Anne Bisson, It'll never happen again by Lady Blackbird, A Battle Between by Blue Tofu, Walkin in the sun by Fink, The Curse by Agnes Obel, Here but I'm gone by Vanessa Femandez, Like a Rock by Dave's True Story
Thank you Anthony, those are some great tracks, I appreciate it. The way it works, I move the VA out of my space for the next round of reviews, therefore I end up rarely getting to listen to them. It would be a bigger crime for them to collect dust. Its far easier to move the C7 back in place for comparisons... I'll check out some of these tracks I am not familiar with. Cheers!
@@2ChannelListening Makes sense, I hope in the future you can review more floor standers in higher price brackets If you like a lot of these vocal tracks, I have a public collection on Tidal with over 100 similar tracks, Sound test Vocal (by Velvet sprinkles)
Great video as usual. I wonder if you might have any thoughts on the Vienna Acoustics Liszt vs Beethoven Baby Grand SE for complex / orchestral music, as also Rock?
I wish I had experience with the Liszt - those are so rare in the US, I've not seen a pair, let alone been able to put my ears to them. Thank you for the kind words. With my experience between the Mozart Grand SE and these BBG, you can count on Liszt to take symphonic music to the next level. I love the BBG with rock, I'm just not sure if the more refined Liszt loses some of the "fun" playing rock music. Supposition entirely on my part.
I own the exact same speakers, also in black as in the video. Love them.. bought them used with original boxes of ebay 5 years ago. Only thing that I miss is the ability to biamp. I have to matching power amps that that I would love to try to power mid High and lows separately. I know, people will think, can't you bridge the amps? Well, these speakers are 4 ohms. My amps accepting in bridge mode only 8 or more.. For now I'll stick with my Rotel class D.
Thank you for sharing and watching. I would be careful about too much power into the Vienna BBG, they sound wonderful to a certain limit, the drivers are not the most robust.
@@2ChannelListening I have tried so many different speakers in my life and they just do everything really well, I can go from Tool to Yo Yo Ma and they just put a smile on my face.
Hi ,, love your videos and how you review speakers giving all the background needed to understand how they sound, These days am in a hunt for new speaker Specifically for vocal tracks, and i was offered from the dealer new Reference version of the Beethoven Baby Grand for half the price , but not sure if they are better than the old SE version specially in the mids , what do think ? is it just the look you didn't like with the Reference version or there is more to it and you didnt like how they sound ? btw i cant demo them because the dealer is far away and in a different city.
Hello and welcome Saeed. I understand the modifications to the Reference line help them handle more power and make them more suitable for HT duty as well, yet I'm not a fan of that flat mid-woofer, I like the purity of the SE line personally. Big price jump for the wrong reason. Vienna Acoustics are musical speakers not home theater speakers, just my opinion. If you cannot demo them or return them without great expense, you might not want to get stuck. For how good the Baby Grand SE are, I can only imagine jumping up to the Totem Element Metal or VA Liszt version. Big bucks to improve on the BBGSE. Good luck!
I understand your analogy on bass extension on comparing the Mozart Grand to the Beethoven Baby Grand; however, that loudness difference should be accounted for in the -3dB or -6dB point. If both of those speakers claim a lower frequency response cutoff of 30Hz, if the amp is set such that their average SPLs are equal, their lower frequency performance should sound the same. The Beethoven Baby Grand DOES have a slightly higher sensitivity at 91 dB (vs 90 dB for the Mozart Grand). Also, if you are describing the punchier bass at your listening position vs. at a 1m measurement position (which is how the response curves are generated) it could possibly be attributed to room response, port design, etc. Bass is a very weird thing!
Thank you for the thoughtful comments MJ. I do use an SPL meter to keep my listening levels within my normal critical listening db. The big difference with the Mozart and BBG is cabinet volume and a second dedicated woofer driver that is specified to 150hz only. Speed and extra air volume create the effect I was dearly missing from the Mozart - me thinks...all things else in my room should be equal with the same amplification and listening position.
@@2ChannelListening There’s no replacement for displacement. 😂 I’m sure the second woofer really adds to the dynamics you are describing. I’d love to find a pair of those local.
Hi, I enjoyed watching your video. I notice your room is smallish. Do you find you get a bit of overhang in the bass from the Beethoven Grand SEs or the Mozart Grand SEs with certain recordings where bass frequencies go very low ? The reason I ask is because I find that is the case with my Castle Harlech floorstanders in my 18' x 12 ' room.
There is a bigger difference in the amount of air the Baby Grand's move compared to the Mozart SE. The Mozart SE integrated very well, I have a handful of bass traps and ceiling absorbers which help tremendously. I did have to use the port bun for the Baby Grand to tame total output in my room. I would say adding two small REL subs for the Mozart SE would probably be the ultimate ticket, however, my room configuration would not allow for the floorspace, I have to contend with my lighting and other gear as well.
@@2ChannelListening Thanks for your reply. Actually I was really meaning, did you find you got any bass overhang for e ither speaker in your room ? I'm sure your bass traps help. My Castle speakers are transmission line and I have them 27 inches from the front wall. One of the speakers is also quite near a corner of the room and I do get a bit of overhang in the bass on that particular speaker depending on the track I am listening to. Not sure if transmission line speakers should be placed further from the wall than other floorstanding speakers ? They have no ports at the back but the transmission tube exits the bottom of the speaker. Any advice would be welcome, thanks.
That's a tough call Chris, over-hang, or a frequency bump is generally room mode interaction. I'm not sure my definition of overhang is the same as what you would describe with transmission line speakers. The small quick drivers in the Vienna Acoustics never sound slow or bloated. I would get some room loading from the big Baby Grand. There is something else going on with your speakers if you are getting bloated, sluggish bass. This is why listening to Tool is so useful with double kick drum, I can tell if the decay is good or overloading my room with too much energy. I think of my big AR9 LS with a underpowered tube amp for bass bloat (overhang). Does this make sense?
@@2ChannelListening Thanks for replying, it is appreciated. It is really only with sections of music where there are particularly low bass frequencies when I am getting the problem, generally the bass sounds very good. Admittedly I have a low powered solid state amplifier (30 wpc) although it is price matched with the speakers. Also I am only getting the issue with the speaker which is quite close to a corner, approx (3 feet) so I think maybe some sort of bass trap in that corner might help to solve it ?
Forgive me Chris, I do not want to misdiagnose what could be happening with your bass. If you are getting muddy, slow bass at some extremes, if it is at dynamic passages (where your amp is being taxed) then bass traps will not help you, its a mismatch with your amps capability and your speakers demands. I've placed all manner of speaker closer to a corner than what you are working with, 36" is actually better than average distance. The obvious test is to put your speakers within 12" side and backwall. If you hear reinforcement of the muddy bass outside of room gain energy, then you certainly can move on to trying traps. If you hear the same issue overhang, slow bass, my opinion, its your amp selection. It happens, I've been there. The correct amp snapped my speakers into focus like they were an entirely different set.
Hi my friend... I just purchased a Vincent SV - 737 I'm using the optical input… Would it benefit me for a better sound quality to use an external DAC instead? .
Congratulations Brian. Your question can only be answered with more questions: 1. Are you happy with the sound currently? 2. Are you getting what you need from the app? Can you access your favorite music will little fuss? 3. Do you need more flexibility with a DAC, USB, HDMI, I2S? I can tell you that improving on a well implemented integrated amplifier can cost you many times more with individual purpose built boxes. For instance, I use a HiFi Rose RS250 streamer, which costs as much and more than three of the integrated amplifiers I have on hand - but it clearly outperforms all of their internal dacs and gives me additional variable volume options. To me its worth it, but I had to save up for that thing!
I love Harbeth Compact 7 which excels in vocals and mid range including love listening to Shelby Lynn. Tried listening to Harbeth Super 5 HL XD and I hated them ( completely different signature sound). I like WARMTH but Harbeth Compact 7 sounds slightly veiled and wish it gave a little more information. I was not sure from your VA Beethoven reviews whether you thought that the mid range was as pleasing as the older Harbeth NON XD??
I found the BBGSE to be one of the most pleasing speakers I've demoed next to the Super HL5+ XD's. Much better suited to a wider variety of genres compared to the older 30th/35th anniversary Harbeths. The XD's retain the warm vocals and add some extension that was missing, in my opinion.
I've had a couple reports that nothing sonically is gained with the Reference, merely more power handling and a bit more output. What have you experienced in comparison? Thx!
@@2ChannelListening You have really peaked my interest in the Beethovens and can pick up a pair in black for around $1800. Concerning the 2 ohm dip, I have an older Emotiva XPA 5 channel and a B&K ref 200.7 7 channel amp to use. do you think it will be an issue with either of those amps? If so I may sell both and put the funds towards a pair of the Buchardt A500s or new A10's ? Thanks for your assistance!
Hi Jerry, since you are interested in VA Beethoven, I have not made much documented comparisons for floor standers. I do have that Google Sheets with well over 70 bookshelf speaker manufacturers if interested. Feel free to email me directly to 2channellistening@gmail.com with questions since you are a subscriber! Thank you sir.
Depends on your space and if you know what kind of presentation you like. If you like warm, beautiful midrange, yes. If you like hyper detail and extreme resolution, no.
It could be using the shielded drivers like the tweeter as a chamber is there any silicon around the edge? Plus would give it magnetic shielding against the crossover interaction but that seems a bit far away and the magnets are not that big but possibly
That's a very good theory HG, yet given the proximity distance for the mid-woofers, I don't see how there is a tangible impact on the tweeter (its clean). The woofers, those magnets are not that big, the shield makes them look much more substantial than they are. I do like your take though!
@@2ChannelListening I wasn't really watching I was listening so it's possible the twitter doesn't interact magnetically with the mid-range is possible No signs of any sealant around the edge of the shield then?
@@2ChannelListening no there will be glued in indentation at the back You could try heating them up with a lighter first in that area to soften the glue
@@hoobsgroove I meant no clearance as in these SOB's are also glued to the cabinets. I wasn't risking it with the Rosewood finish - never had baskets stuck in a cabinet like this...they didn't want me pulling these ones out, lol...
It is my experience that one can't hear how good a speaker is without an A/B. A large kick drum has an area of 1300 square inches producing bass. A 6.5" speaker has 33 square inches. I have 3-way speakers with dual 15" woofers (700 square inches total) which is the area of a medium kick drum. Little speakers sound little and/or unnatural.
Here is my nothing less than brutally honest take; viewed from the lens of a US consumer, I think the Dali Rubicon 6 is a beautiful sounding speaker. However, when stacked up against what you can buy a Beethoven Baby Grand SE, the BBGSE is far more beautiful to look at, more special and arguably slightly more musical. Someone who pays $6,999 for a pair of vinyl wrapped speakers will be very upset how the walnut looks in person (it is truly horrible at this price). Stick with the gloss black or white and you'll be happy. I will say the Dali drivers and QC will probably outlast the Vienna over many years, but use and abuse is different for everyone.
I seen a utuber in US post an unboxing of the Dali Rubicon 6 Special Black edition...his audio store wants $7000 US dollar...Dali US prices are higher... I purchased a pair yesterday for €3900 (I should have next week)...the other few euro dealers still having them are asking €4100...only a few left around the world as there were only 444 pair made...there are a few differences between the normal rubicon 6...the dimensions will fit better in my room...I demoed a pair of Dali Rubicon 8 yesterday and I would be better off with the 6 since I'll pair w/ 2 Rel T7X...even if i got a small dicount of €200 it would still save me €3490 over the Vienna Accoustics Beethoven Baby Grand Reference😁
I would stick with prior generation BBG SE, not the new reference series. VA is no longer distributed in the US, so I couldn't tell you what the going prices are.
@@2ChannelListening can't find the Beethoven Baby Grand SE but just found a pair of Cherry Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand SE pre owned but from a reputable dealer in Germany for €2750 + 100 shipping in europe...not sure the difference...perhaps if really looked more I could locate a pair...but I'm just going to stick with the Dali rubicon 6 BE...
Why do I feel like some manufacturers make speakers for a certain type of music? 🤔 Beethoven, baby grand, Mahler, Strauss hmmmm there's a theme here. Will Mr BUNGLE sound good on these?
You are not wrong depending on the manufacturer and designer. Thank goodness there are companies like Totem Acoustics, ZU and Magnepan out there. I don't know about Mr. Bungle, but I doubt Green Jelly sounds good on anything but Cerwin Vega! ;-)
@@2ChannelListening These phrases like, "The whole 9 yards" & "Mind your bees wax" have origins. Do you know the origin of "begs the question"? I know the origin. I'd love to know where you think it comes from. It didn't just magically form on our lips. The definition you regurgitated is a modern colloquialism. Because it's in a book of definitions, does not mean it is accurate. "Ain't" aint a word, although it can be found in a book of definitions. You are a teacher of sorts, correct? Don't you want to get it right? Where do you think it comes from? 🔈🔉🔊
A "logical fallacy". As I used it for this VA comparison, directed at specs that I cannot refute, only try to illustrate there is a difference in their sameness. Such a strange sentence to get hung up on, I make plenty of linguistic faux pas in each video.
@@2ChannelListening "Logic" is a subject in Philosophy where "begging the question" (not "begs") is used to point out the fallacy of a question used in Argument. The classic example used to help understand the concept is, "When did you stop beating your wife?" It is a logical fallacy because the question "Begs" the other person to accept that the subject did beat his wife as true. NO, statement can be "begging the question" because THERE IS NO QUESTION, when there must be one. See what I mean? And discussing language is only weird because unfortunately, words mean nothing these days. 🔈🔉🔊
it is nice to have a quality speaker. believing the speaker is the most important pice in your system NO Its all about your components just my thoughts
That's interesting Gregory. I'm always back and forth, but I would err on the side of the speakers making the biggest difference and here is why I think this in general terms. Average value speakers can sound average with average gear; one can attach gear that is 5 x or more the value of the speakers and yes those speakers will sound their best, but that is a backward use of funds. I've tried these combos and the average speaker never sounded better than the model above it. Now, take a Harbeth SHL5+ XD for example and put a NAD D3045 integrated to it and the Harbeth still sounds much better than a lower priced average speaker. When you match the SHL5+ with equal cost components, then absolutely WOW....same goes for these VA Baby Grand. I can put subpar electronics on them and they still sound better than lower priced speakers with better electronics. My experience anyway. YMMV. Thank you for watching and commenting.
Great speakers powered by an adequate amp will always sound better than adequate speakers powered by a great amp. Spend your budget on speakers first, then worry about the electronics. It's like a camera system - invest in the best glass you can, and then the bodies.
Congratulations on your purchase! As long as everything is distorted, the bass frequencies will disappear for a while! With warming up there will be fireworks of sound!
Deal isn’t sealed, but thank you ☺️
five hundred hours !!!
Just listened to these in a nice demo room. I’m blown away!
Good stuff!
I love the way you described the Rodrigo y Gabriela tone. Very similar to how I feel listening to my Bach grands. I’m not saying they are in the same league as the Beethoven, the Bach is a much smaller speaker with less output obviously. But it is that Vienna acoustics sound and excellent tone that you can practically feel in your bones
Thank you Pkats. Peter produces beautiful music transducers.
Thanks for this excellent review Jason!!
My pleasure Vittorio, hello to Italy!
yes you get it smart
I have a pair of VA Beethoven grand SE in rosewood. They are powered by my Accuphase E-370 integrated amp. They sound excellent together to my taste. I cant stand harsh sounding speakers/electronics but here I get nothing of that and can simply enjoy the music.
I would have loved to put a powerful class A amp with the VA Baby Grand. Enjoy Martin!
Love the look inside the speakers and the detail about them. looking forward to the "Peachtree amplifier" review.
Thanks Sean.
@@2ChannelListening this cabinet just like every make uses veneered MDF not "real wood throughout". the low impedance is really a turn off. GR Research condemned the Mozart's drivers the same ones in the pair here.
This Shelby Lynne track is great, thanks for the recommendation. I’m loving it on my Dirty Weekends.
Glad you enjoy it!
@@2ChannelListening Phew, the whole album is amazing… I didn’t realize at first that it’s a Dusty Springfield tribute. Great recording too.
It’s a shame Vienna Acoustics doesn’t still make the Mahlers or even the Strauss. I own a pair of the Mahlers. They are incredible! Highly under-rated. I have them in gloss black. I have owned them for about 11 years. I use a McIntosh C52 preamp and MC452 amp and they are magical together!!!!! A “must hear” speaker! I like Peachtree products as well. Great sound for a great price.
That's some serious front end gear, I bet they do sing indeed! Thanks.
Unfortunately, I have seen several brands post Covid take a stand against affordable gear. Several brands have straight up doubled their prices for the same products three years prior, and eliminate entry level offerings. Just sad. That's why I spent so much time building out that manufacturer list of modest bookshelf speaker offerings. I'm up to 74 manufacturers and counting!
I too own the Mahler's, but in the beach wood, driving them with some Pass Labs XA 60.5's mono blocks and an Audio Research 5SE pre. The only speakers that iv'e heard that compete with the Mahler's are the Magico S series and some of the Wilson's.
Great review, I don't know how you can let them go! I sense you'll be chasing that sound down the track.
Also thought I'd share sound nice vocal tracks: This Love by Chlara, Beautiful life by Chantal Chamberland, I'll Follow Your Trail by Sean Rowe, Liberty by Anette Askvik, Imagine by Chris Klafford, Fall into my arms by Lucinda Peters, Landslide by Stacey Kent, Fix it by Lady Blackbird, Angel by Sarah Mclachlan, September in Montreal by Anne Bisson, It'll never happen again by Lady Blackbird, A Battle Between by Blue Tofu, Walkin in the sun by Fink, The Curse by Agnes Obel, Here but I'm gone by Vanessa Femandez, Like a Rock by Dave's True Story
Thank you Anthony, those are some great tracks, I appreciate it.
The way it works, I move the VA out of my space for the next round of reviews, therefore I end up rarely getting to listen to them. It would be a bigger crime for them to collect dust. Its far easier to move the C7 back in place for comparisons...
I'll check out some of these tracks I am not familiar with. Cheers!
@@2ChannelListening Makes sense, I hope in the future you can review more floor standers in higher price brackets
If you like a lot of these vocal tracks, I have a public collection on Tidal with over 100 similar tracks, Sound test Vocal (by Velvet sprinkles)
Great video as usual. I wonder if you might have any thoughts on the Vienna Acoustics Liszt vs Beethoven Baby Grand SE for complex / orchestral music, as also Rock?
I wish I had experience with the Liszt - those are so rare in the US, I've not seen a pair, let alone been able to put my ears to them. Thank you for the kind words. With my experience between the Mozart Grand SE and these BBG, you can count on Liszt to take symphonic music to the next level. I love the BBG with rock, I'm just not sure if the more refined Liszt loses some of the "fun" playing rock music. Supposition entirely on my part.
I own the exact same speakers, also in black as in the video. Love them.. bought them used with original boxes of ebay 5 years ago.
Only thing that I miss is the ability to biamp. I have to matching power amps that that I would love to try to power mid High and lows separately. I know, people will think, can't you bridge the amps? Well, these speakers are 4 ohms. My amps accepting in bridge mode only 8 or more..
For now I'll stick with my Rotel class D.
Thank you for sharing and watching. I would be careful about too much power into the Vienna BBG, they sound wonderful to a certain limit, the drivers are not the most robust.
I have the Vienna Haydn Grand Symphony's and absolutely love them!
You get it! 👍
@@2ChannelListening I have tried so many different speakers in my life and they just do everything really well, I can go from Tool to Yo Yo Ma and they just put a smile on my face.
@@rx7dude2006 that is what it’s all about, more miles full of smiles 😊
That man is stroking a speaker the way a speaker shouldn’t be stroked! LOL
Oh, you watched that part ;-)
that's between them and god
Hi ,, love your videos and how you review speakers giving all the background needed to understand how they sound, These days am in a hunt for new speaker Specifically for vocal tracks, and i was offered from the dealer new Reference version of the Beethoven Baby Grand for half the price , but not sure if they are better than the old SE version specially in the mids , what do think ? is it just the look you didn't like with the Reference version or there is more to it and you didnt like how they sound ? btw i cant demo them because the dealer is far away and in a different city.
Hello and welcome Saeed. I understand the modifications to the Reference line help them handle more power and make them more suitable for HT duty as well, yet I'm not a fan of that flat mid-woofer, I like the purity of the SE line personally. Big price jump for the wrong reason. Vienna Acoustics are musical speakers not home theater speakers, just my opinion. If you cannot demo them or return them without great expense, you might not want to get stuck. For how good the Baby Grand SE are, I can only imagine jumping up to the Totem Element Metal or VA Liszt version. Big bucks to improve on the BBGSE. Good luck!
I understand your analogy on bass extension on comparing the Mozart Grand to the Beethoven Baby Grand; however, that loudness difference should be accounted for in the -3dB or -6dB point. If both of those speakers claim a lower frequency response cutoff of 30Hz, if the amp is set such that their average SPLs are equal, their lower frequency performance should sound the same. The Beethoven Baby Grand DOES have a slightly higher sensitivity at 91 dB (vs 90 dB for the Mozart Grand). Also, if you are describing the punchier bass at your listening position vs. at a 1m measurement position (which is how the response curves are generated) it could possibly be attributed to room response, port design, etc. Bass is a very weird thing!
Thank you for the thoughtful comments MJ. I do use an SPL meter to keep my listening levels within my normal critical listening db. The big difference with the Mozart and BBG is cabinet volume and a second dedicated woofer driver that is specified to 150hz only. Speed and extra air volume create the effect I was dearly missing from the Mozart - me thinks...all things else in my room should be equal with the same amplification and listening position.
@@2ChannelListening There’s no replacement for displacement. 😂 I’m sure the second woofer really adds to the dynamics you are describing. I’d love to find a pair of those local.
I would put that excel list list in your video description. Low barrier to entry is a thing on the interwebz
Yeah, there's another less polite term for that...
I included it. Cheers
Hi, I enjoyed watching your video. I notice your room is smallish. Do you find you get a bit of overhang in the bass from the Beethoven Grand SEs or the Mozart Grand SEs with certain recordings where bass frequencies go very low ? The reason I ask is because I find that is the case with my Castle Harlech floorstanders in my 18' x 12 ' room.
There is a bigger difference in the amount of air the Baby Grand's move compared to the Mozart SE. The Mozart SE integrated very well, I have a handful of bass traps and ceiling absorbers which help tremendously. I did have to use the port bun for the Baby Grand to tame total output in my room. I would say adding two small REL subs for the Mozart SE would probably be the ultimate ticket, however, my room configuration would not allow for the floorspace, I have to contend with my lighting and other gear as well.
@@2ChannelListening Thanks for your reply. Actually I was really meaning, did you find you got any bass overhang for e
ither speaker in your room ? I'm sure your bass traps help. My Castle speakers are transmission line and I have them 27 inches from the front wall. One of the speakers is also quite near a corner of the room and I do get a bit of overhang in the bass on that particular speaker depending on the track I am listening to. Not sure if transmission line speakers should be placed further from the wall than other floorstanding speakers ? They have no ports at the back but the transmission tube exits the bottom of the speaker. Any advice would be welcome, thanks.
That's a tough call Chris, over-hang, or a frequency bump is generally room mode interaction. I'm not sure my definition of overhang is the same as what you would describe with transmission line speakers. The small quick drivers in the Vienna Acoustics never sound slow or bloated. I would get some room loading from the big Baby Grand. There is something else going on with your speakers if you are getting bloated, sluggish bass. This is why listening to Tool is so useful with double kick drum, I can tell if the decay is good or overloading my room with too much energy. I think of my big AR9 LS with a underpowered tube amp for bass bloat (overhang). Does this make sense?
@@2ChannelListening Thanks for replying, it is appreciated. It is really only with sections of music where there are particularly low bass frequencies when I am getting the problem, generally the bass sounds very good. Admittedly I have a low powered solid state amplifier (30 wpc) although it is price matched with the speakers. Also I am only getting the issue with the speaker which is quite close to a corner, approx (3 feet)
so I think maybe some sort of bass trap in that corner might help to solve it ?
Forgive me Chris, I do not want to misdiagnose what could be happening with your bass. If you are getting muddy, slow bass at some extremes, if it is at dynamic passages (where your amp is being taxed) then bass traps will not help you, its a mismatch with your amps capability and your speakers demands. I've placed all manner of speaker closer to a corner than what you are working with, 36" is actually better than average distance. The obvious test is to put your speakers within 12" side and backwall. If you hear reinforcement of the muddy bass outside of room gain energy, then you certainly can move on to trying traps. If you hear the same issue overhang, slow bass, my opinion, its your amp selection. It happens, I've been there. The correct amp snapped my speakers into focus like they were an entirely different set.
Hi my friend... I just purchased a Vincent SV - 737 I'm using the optical input… Would it benefit me for a better sound quality to use an external DAC instead?
.
Congratulations Brian. Your question can only be answered with more questions:
1. Are you happy with the sound currently?
2. Are you getting what you need from the app? Can you access your favorite music will little fuss?
3. Do you need more flexibility with a DAC, USB, HDMI, I2S?
I can tell you that improving on a well implemented integrated amplifier can cost you many times more with individual purpose built boxes. For instance, I use a HiFi Rose RS250 streamer, which costs as much and more than three of the integrated amplifiers I have on hand - but it clearly outperforms all of their internal dacs and gives me additional variable volume options. To me its worth it, but I had to save up for that thing!
@@2ChannelListening
thanks Jason, I'm now using a Gustard R26 and very happy with the better sound...
Jason, i like your new introduction.
Keep it simple, right?
@@2ChannelListening Viewers click away during a long intro, especially if loug and obnoxious.
I love Harbeth Compact 7 which excels in vocals and mid range including love listening to Shelby Lynn. Tried listening to Harbeth Super 5 HL XD and I hated them ( completely different signature sound). I like WARMTH but Harbeth Compact 7 sounds slightly veiled and wish it gave a little more information. I was not sure from your VA Beethoven reviews whether you thought that the mid range was as pleasing as the older Harbeth NON XD??
I found the BBGSE to be one of the most pleasing speakers I've demoed next to the Super HL5+ XD's. Much better suited to a wider variety of genres compared to the older 30th/35th anniversary Harbeths. The XD's retain the warm vocals and add some extension that was missing, in my opinion.
Baby grande reference is the business.
You gotta check it out!
Did you compare them to the SE ? I would love to know how the reference improve over the SE
I've had a couple reports that nothing sonically is gained with the Reference, merely more power handling and a bit more output. What have you experienced in comparison? Thx!
Great reviews. Where is the excel sheet you referred to?
I had a few on my community page, mostly dealing with bookshelf speakers and brands.
@@2ChannelListening You have really peaked my interest in the Beethovens and can pick up a pair in black for around $1800. Concerning the 2 ohm dip, I have an older Emotiva XPA 5 channel and a B&K ref 200.7 7 channel amp to use. do you think it will be an issue with either of those amps? If so I may sell both and put the funds towards a pair of the Buchardt A500s or new A10's ? Thanks for your assistance!
Hi Jerry, since you are interested in VA Beethoven, I have not made much documented comparisons for floor standers. I do have that Google Sheets with well over 70 bookshelf speaker manufacturers if interested. Feel free to email me directly to 2channellistening@gmail.com with questions since you are a subscriber! Thank you sir.
I have a chance to buy a an older pair of the VA Beethoven Baby Grands, should I buy them?
Depends on your space and if you know what kind of presentation you like. If you like warm, beautiful midrange, yes. If you like hyper detail and extreme resolution, no.
@@2ChannelListening Thank you sir! I prefer midrange and I don't like overly bright speakers. I will give them another listen.
I really enjoy my Harbeth HL5plus.
You get it!
It could be using the shielded drivers like the tweeter as a chamber is there any silicon around the edge? Plus would give it magnetic shielding against the crossover interaction but that seems a bit far away and the magnets are not that big but possibly
That's a very good theory HG, yet given the proximity distance for the mid-woofers, I don't see how there is a tangible impact on the tweeter (its clean). The woofers, those magnets are not that big, the shield makes them look much more substantial than they are. I do like your take though!
@@2ChannelListening I wasn't really watching I was listening so it's possible the twitter doesn't interact magnetically with the mid-range is possible
No signs of any sealant around the edge of the shield then?
@@hoobsgroove I did not get a good look at the top, not enough clearance. I certainly was not prying them off, sealant or glue, they would not budge.
@@2ChannelListening no there will be glued in indentation at the back You could try heating them up with a lighter first in that area to soften the glue
@@hoobsgroove I meant no clearance as in these SOB's are also glued to the cabinets. I wasn't risking it with the Rosewood finish - never had baskets stuck in a cabinet like this...they didn't want me pulling these ones out, lol...
It is my experience that one can't hear how good a speaker is without an A/B. A large kick drum has an area of 1300 square inches producing bass. A 6.5" speaker has 33 square inches. I have 3-way speakers with dual 15" woofers (700 square inches total) which is the area of a medium kick drum. Little speakers sound little and/or unnatural.
PMC speakers 🔊, transmission line cabinets?
Regarding A/B comparisons, what context are you referring to?
thx Jason...one more please...
how would you compare the Dali Rubicon 6 vs Vienna Acoustics Beethoven
Baby Grand SE ?
Here is my nothing less than brutally honest take; viewed from the lens of a US consumer, I think the Dali Rubicon 6 is a beautiful sounding speaker. However, when stacked up against what you can buy a Beethoven Baby Grand SE, the BBGSE is far more beautiful to look at, more special and arguably slightly more musical. Someone who pays $6,999 for a pair of vinyl wrapped speakers will be very upset how the walnut looks in person (it is truly horrible at this price). Stick with the gloss black or white and you'll be happy. I will say the Dali drivers and QC will probably outlast the Vienna over many years, but use and abuse is different for everyone.
I seen a utuber in US post an unboxing of the Dali Rubicon 6 Special Black edition...his audio store wants $7000 US dollar...Dali US prices are higher...
I purchased a pair yesterday for €3900 (I should have next week)...the other few euro dealers still having them are asking €4100...only a few left around the world as there were only 444 pair made...there are a few differences between the normal rubicon 6...the dimensions will fit better in my room...I demoed a pair of Dali Rubicon 8 yesterday and I would be better off with the 6 since I'll pair w/ 2 Rel T7X...even if i got a small dicount of €200 it would still save me €3490 over the Vienna Accoustics Beethoven Baby Grand Reference😁
I would stick with prior generation BBG SE, not the new reference series. VA is no longer distributed in the US, so I couldn't tell you what the going prices are.
@@2ChannelListening
can't find the Beethoven Baby Grand SE but just found a pair of Cherry Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand SE pre owned but from a reputable dealer in Germany for €2750 + 100 shipping in europe...not sure the difference...perhaps if really looked more I could locate a pair...but I'm just going to stick with the Dali rubicon 6 BE...
Why do I feel like some manufacturers make speakers for a certain type of music? 🤔
Beethoven, baby grand, Mahler, Strauss hmmmm there's a theme here.
Will Mr BUNGLE sound good on these?
You are not wrong depending on the manufacturer and designer. Thank goodness there are companies like Totem Acoustics, ZU and Magnepan out there. I don't know about Mr. Bungle, but I doubt Green Jelly sounds good on anything but Cerwin Vega! ;-)
@@2ChannelListening
🤣
I love those 3 little pigs 🐖 🐖 🐖
That's how my dali helicon 800s are. I've had them since 2005 but I just can't let them go.
Heck yeah, I can see why. Nice, thank you for watching.
Not sure where your 95db sensitivity spec is sourced. I have purchased these speakers & they certainly are not that efficient...
How do you like them?
Any other speakers that they're similar to in performance? Thanks
Excellent comprehensive review. Maybe shorten it just a bit. I fully appreciate your hard work.
"Begs the Question" does NOT mean raises the question. DuckDuckGo it. 🔈🔉🔊
"beg the question" (of a fact or action) raise a question or point that has not been dealt with; invite an obvious question.
@@2ChannelListening These phrases like, "The whole 9 yards" & "Mind your bees wax" have origins. Do you know the origin of "begs the question"? I know the origin. I'd love to know where you think it comes from. It didn't just magically form on our lips.
The definition you regurgitated is a modern colloquialism. Because it's in a book of definitions, does not mean it is accurate. "Ain't" aint a word, although it can be found in a book of definitions.
You are a teacher of sorts, correct? Don't you want to get it right? Where do you think it comes from? 🔈🔉🔊
A "logical fallacy". As I used it for this VA comparison, directed at specs that I cannot refute, only try to illustrate there is a difference in their sameness. Such a strange sentence to get hung up on, I make plenty of linguistic faux pas in each video.
@@2ChannelListening "Logic" is a subject in Philosophy where "begging the question" (not "begs") is used to point out the fallacy of a question used in Argument.
The classic example used to help understand the concept is, "When did you stop beating your wife?"
It is a logical fallacy because the question "Begs" the other person to accept that the subject did beat his wife as true.
NO, statement can be "begging the question" because THERE IS NO QUESTION, when there must be one.
See what I mean? And discussing language is only weird because unfortunately, words mean nothing these days. 🔈🔉🔊
it is nice to have a quality speaker. believing the speaker is the most important pice in your system NO Its all about your components just my thoughts
That's interesting Gregory. I'm always back and forth, but I would err on the side of the speakers making the biggest difference and here is why I think this in general terms. Average value speakers can sound average with average gear; one can attach gear that is 5 x or more the value of the speakers and yes those speakers will sound their best, but that is a backward use of funds. I've tried these combos and the average speaker never sounded better than the model above it.
Now, take a Harbeth SHL5+ XD for example and put a NAD D3045 integrated to it and the Harbeth still sounds much better than a lower priced average speaker. When you match the SHL5+ with equal cost components, then absolutely WOW....same goes for these VA Baby Grand. I can put subpar electronics on them and they still sound better than lower priced speakers with better electronics. My experience anyway. YMMV. Thank you for watching and commenting.
Great speakers powered by an adequate amp will always sound better than adequate speakers powered by a great amp. Spend your budget on speakers first, then worry about the electronics. It's like a camera system - invest in the best glass you can, and then the bodies.
Well said, alas, I do not have the budget for great glass :-)
Thank you MJ.
@@MJHiteshew You got it Mike. Gregory is confused.