6" Deepstrike makes sense because of what we saw in the Thousand Sons Hexwarp Thrallband stratagem. Where you can elect to Deepstrike a Scarab Occult Terminator unit to 6" and no charging.
Back in October, my Day 1 to a local tourney was Hyperwarp, Grey Knights, and Belakor's Shadow teleporting around and forcing my Pactbound Zealots to play very deadly Whack-A-Mole. TL;DR I'm more than happy with this idea of a 3" deepstrike turning to 6"
This was my thought exactly. The Grotmas detachments have probably been written with the upcoming balance datatslate in mind since they go live for tournament play in January.
- GSC at 61% wr at tournaments. - Space Marines 2nd at the bottom. So this leak should be true. There's not a single chance that marines are not receiving nerfs in every balance dataslate.
To be fair last time I checked GSC accounts for like a little less than 2% of Tournament matches. So while those pro players are doing great - the average GSC player most likely isn't. However, SM don't deserve to be nerfed lol
@Vante21 I've just GSC cos they are winning big right now. I could pick for example Thousand Sons, Necrons or Adepta Sororitas whom have been winning with more than 55% so far this year. I understand that GW is a company and they need to do business ofc... but the model of business based on "well we already sell tons of marines so f*ck off nerf them to the ground" and the other side "we don't sell this army (GSC for example) so buff them to the sky" well I could work but for the players is a mess... That's my point of view as a player. For example my Vanguard Spearhead list since January goes up in 290 points even not been the most broken list year ago.
@@viciaoalwow95Don’t know what you’re talking about with sisters, they were big for a while, but after last balance and now this one they’ve effectively butchered sisters with this balance slate, massive points increases even on units no one uses, and massive nerfs to Miracle dice and our detachments. Hell they even nerfed Imperial Guard. Necrons and GSC seem to be GWs favourite armies atm
It's one of the most played factions. And It has a good list that can ein against everything...if you are building shitty lists...you lose. So if you play tournaments, play Vanguard, if not why do you care about winrates? stop crying ffs.
@mathiasschulze6148 Because this winrate does align with the feeling that VANILLA space marines (so, not even Ultras/IF/IH/RG/Salamanders/WS) do not pack any significant punch (To be fair, outside using Ultras characters, even those other core codex chapters do not pack that significantly more powerful punch
@@Fayheurblode yeah but pls stop crying. There will be a new detachment and major rule updates...do you think these is the only changes for SM?...ffs...GW is not always pinpoint but all in all the balancing is realy good in 40k. They will try...a balanced game is the best driver for more money...
@mathiasschulze6148 I’m not crying about it, just explaining the thing… It was literally how it happened for each and every dataslate update this version that the guy originally joked about
March Dataslate predictions: Assault Intercessors now cost 415 points Captain Free Stratagem now costs a CP If you field Codex compliant Marines, you lost 10 VP at the end of the game Gullimane now costs 2500 points
I suppose the first big question with that AoC nerf is whether it'd apply to just that Stratagem, or all strats that do the same thing like the CSM and Sororitas versions. The former seems oddly targeted on a weaker faction, whereas the latter would be very bad news for Sisters since they have very little access to 2+ saves in their Codex and tend to have to take more saves due to low toughness. I'm also puzzled as to what 'problem' it's supposed to be solving, unless Necrons not being able to delete anything they don't like in a single turn is considered to be a problem.
Honestly... no idea what problem this would solve. Speculating here, but it would make sense if there's going to be a big AP drop on anti tank/anti elite weaponry in the game (-1 on most heavier things across the board - so Melta down to -3, lascannons to -2 etc.). It would make the game less deadly overall & the nerf to AoC-esque stratagems would make a lot of sense in that context (given the durability isn't really needed as much at that point). And from a game design point of view it seems reasonable in my mind; AoC has to be factored into shooting armies math (Tau, Necrons etc) - so they need higher AP to deal with it, the downside is all that AP creates a problem for balance if you don't have an AoC equivalent for your army/detachment. If AoC is a lot more restrictive in that it can only work against a single enemy; it can still be used to spot check powerful individual shooting/melee, but its' more of a situational bonus rather than a make or break thing as there would be much less high AP across the board for shooting. It would be a buff (or at least sidegrade) to the factions that have access to it in that context. But GW has not done anything to that scale so far in 10th and I don't know if they will. I'd imagine it'd be all similarly worded stratagems as that seems to be how they've balanced things so far in 10th (IE; Captain free stratagems, or the Lord of Deceit/ Vect aura).
@@jaldren1385 Yeah, it's a bit too common to have 2+ save + cover + AOC. This means big guns need to be pushing AP4 or better to reliably get damage through. If they fix both ends of this then AOC becomes a way to punish wombo combos while still letting missile launchers do their job.
3" deep strike makes total sense, it has very little counter play, you just can't screen 3" and it was too powerful to balance. Hopefully makes inceptors cheaper and more usable now as useful shooting damage unit. AOC change is just baffling, in some cases there are units whos only real argument for using them are a 2+ save in cover and the option to AOC to make them really tanky, like terminators or redemptor dreads, now what have these units got? It also is just a buff for shooting armies, when they are dominating the meta in the main. So someone can still blunt your squad of AP2 melee dramatically, but all the ignores cover, AP3 mass shooting from Tau, Guard etc. nah you have to die to that, especially for marine vehicles that don't have invuls either. Like they have given ignores cover options to SOOO many armies on their shooting and now they are nerfing AOC, so they really want those expensive vehicles just blapped off the board, but then like Necrons get a cracked vehicle detachment and most of their vehicles have a 4+ invul, yeh seems balanced.
I agree they said they were going to help vanilla space marine. A nerf is needed for sure. Also a buff to other faction to make sure poster boys are properly rescued
Fuck me... What a way to ruin the best stratagem. But other factions still have their own armor of contempt with the minus 1 ap but with another name for it.
@@totalnizmetek Yeah they're so many AP -4 weapons that almost everyone is running around with tank spam. Did you run into 3 Doomsday Arks and Settlers of C'tan? T'au Stealth Suits and Sunforged Crisis Suits? The only things that get AP -4 are either Monsters, Tanks,, extremely rarely an infantry character, or a Melta type weapon.
Auspex: "Please try not to lose your mind in the comments." He says, seeing the shadow of the looming tsunami of salt 😅 I agree the AoC nerf looks bad in a vacuum, assuming it's accurate. I'm waiting to see the entire picture. If there are changes to cover or terrain, a nerf to AoC makes more sense....or GW could have just effed up again. We do not know enough to make a judgment either way
@dariocenciarelli1090 lol yeah, I was completely wrong lmao. Though honestly, considering the battery of buffs SM got, I'm still not unhappy. I'd be saltier if I was GK or Votaan, tbh
Im actually so sick of Marines getting massive nerfs when they are literally the worst faction in the game. Its not even to things that are overpowered. Anything even half decent gets the guillotine. Dont worry though, the hammerfall bunker will get -1 points, lets goooo!
It would still be useful in melee, many armies have Ap -1, Ap-2 melee, so if you are fighting only one unit reducing their AP is still very good. In shooting it's much more situational, yes.
I see. They're looking to make Agents look better by nuking Space Marines even though after the last points update, all SM have been a non issue competitively They are gonna need absolutely massive points drops to make up for AoC change since it's the only reason SM end up being tanky enough to survive the crazy shooting that a lot of armies have. Inceptors losing their job sucks as well. 6"DS still makes it easier to get in for sure, but the margin from 9" to 6" is so little these guys are gonna need to be brought down heavily in points to be as useful as they are now. The buffs they alluded to for SM better be eye watering because you can't really reduce this army's points anymore before they become GSC cheap.
You do know that all the best worst and newest players all play space marines and 70+% of players play them bringing down the average to that and that’s not taking into account all the other chapters that have codexes that have a higher win rate and all those armies share most of the same datasheets
@Trinine9 the classic take of someone who has never played in a tournament, and can't read. BCP tracks player stats and they completely contradict your claims. By all means, keep believing that when marines do well the players are all veterans, but magically forget how to play when they don't.
I mean it’s restricted to one unit per phase. How problematic was it? Marines literally need AOC against the massive amount of ap-2 or higher attacks out there and the lack of invulns everywhere except on a few units other than characters.
While I agree that hitting SM with another nerf sucks, we don't know what other changes will there be in next dataslate. The problem is that GW gave AOC to many other armies and other SM chapters like Dark Angels or Blood angels. Codex SM have almost no invus or feel no pain on their units(apart from terminators who barely anyone plays, and bladeguards who are decent yes) so it kind of sucks for SM players if AOC is changed because it's our only tool to survive in the game where most weapon are designed to kill space marines profiles, but having AOC on units with 2+ native save(like GK, Deathwing knights and votann or meganobz) is also really annoying as well.
@@ChibiPanda Agreed - the issue started when both Space Marines with their T4 3+/-/- and Custodes with their T5/6 2+/4++ were both deigned targets of the same 1CP stat.
Marine armies get a lot of -2 AP Xeno armies mostly dont so this strat has been forcing Xeno armies to stack high AP everywhere and cover is all over the place so that -2 is actually a -0 AP whit that strat
@@Phlebas99 Well, when every other offensive or defensive strat in the game contains a phrase that basically states that the effect of the strat is in effect the end of the phase, then only targeting one specific type of strat, ap reduction, for a nerf is too narrow unless every strat in the game were to be affected equal since there defensive strats that give damage reduction, invulnverable saves, FNP saves, and -1 to hit or wound. These all can swing the result of a single roll.
In most cases this strat is used for a dread or a tank who will have cover so befitting from 1 AP reduction already you add AoC and that -2 AP anty tank weapon Xeno factions get is now a -0 AP weapon
@@codename1176 I thought so, but we were clearly wrong. It would seem that if you aren't playing ultramarines or a divergent chapter, then you are playing the faction wrong... I guess.
Deathwatch saw an upgrade on bolt weapons ap and damage. So i guess maybe Basic SM gets that update too. Making SM more lethal overall would make the AoC nerf less bad. Anyway AoC is used every round so maybe it needs a nerv. I dont belive they would do it without some serious buffs to SM.
I think the best indication of what is coming is the Grotmas detachments as there are multiple common strategems that are different from normal: -3 inch deepstrikes are all 6 inch deep strikes. -Sticky objectives last until your opponent controls them at the start of any phase rather than at the start of any turn. -Strategems that let vehicles move through models or terrain no longer carry a risk of getting battleshocked if you move through terrain taller than 4 inches. With that in mind, I think the Armour of Contempt change is unlikely, as AoC is unchanged in both the Dark Angels and Deathwatch detachments... unless AoC is different as it shares the same name as existing strategems, and they didn't want two versions of it existing at the same time.
I really hope if they do change 3 inch deep strike to 6 inches they remember that daemons already get that from the detachment ability, they need to just outright rework that stratagem to do something else otherwise you are left with a stratagem that does nothing besides take away your ability to charge.
Wow …. not a single rumor that’s actually a buff to vanilla SM, but more nerfs. … so if there are no play testing rumors for any new SM rules, will the help GW promised just be point drops on the units nobody likes? It does look a bit like it, tbh.
This is so hard to take serious anymore. Every time we turn around we’re promised fixes to Space Marines, and we receive only nerfs. And more nerfs. I hate this edition and its dataslate insanity.
Not Armor of Contempt 😭 I already can't deal any damage and now I have to die more, too? Fucks sake I hope the "help" they mentioned is actually serious.
There is a good chance that these rumours are true. GW doesn't care if Marines are unplayable. Codex Space Marines outside of Ultramarines has been unplayable for a good part of 6 months now.
@@Paranormal-Stupidity I understand the frustration from the old dataslates but maybe you can wait for the actual buff in the dataslates before complaining ? we don't know anything yet.
@@Paranormal-Stupidityits very frustrating as a newer player, i watched a bunch of lore read a few books and fell in love with the Ultra Marines. It blows my mind that they allow the biggest selling component of 40k(space marine models) be this bad in game.
> Space Marines being the most played faction > intermittently and excessively nerf them > push players to buy other factions > ????? > record YoY earnings
@@Grinchpryde No, but you know what is actually boring? Having an army with Hundred of hours and dollars put into it and not being able to use it as intended.
@@Grinchpryde the solution should NOT nerfing them after so many people starting the hobby with SM. They should push other armies and faction on the front to help them gain visibility. It's begining to look like some scam now
I just got a Land Raider Redeemer, so I hope it can at least survive a turn lmao. Seriously tho, why do space marines keep getting nerfs every update when even gw says they need buffed?
My understanding is in competitive that strat is fine but generally a trap. 2cp is expensive and if you know what you’re doing it’s easy enough to get them within that range without a deep strike.
Rapid ingressing cold star sunforge is a better way of getting your unit within melta range as is. Most times I use the Strat to get the infantry sweeper where it needs to go
Yeah, I kinda see this same issue with a lot of Detachments using 3" deepstrikes as a core strategy. GSC have Acos with Hand Flamers and Bombs both as 6" weapons. Delivering that into shooting range becomes effectively impossible without a 3" Deepstrike. 6" guns sort of require a 3" deepstrike to be any good
I don’t think armor of contempt was that big of a deal and if it is for certain armies then just make it not available to the problematic units. Your going to help codex space marines and then nerf one of its decent stratagems if this holds true so doesn’t make much sense to me
we will have to see why they nerf it (maybe because of a buff that increase the durability ?) but yeah the stratagem on his own wasn't a problem. I have never seen someone saying it was too strong or unbalanced
@@masterch1ef297 AoC was objectively an overpowered strat. Most armies pay 1CP to increase the AP of a unit/ignore cover for one activation. Having access to "reduce the AP of the enemy reactively by 1 for multiple activations" for the same cost was obviously very good. For further example: non-space marine versions of the strat (Chaos and GK) debuted at 2CP. The main problem with AoC is that it was so good it has warped the meta. You explain in your own post how people take AP0 or AP3 with nothing in between. Why do you think this is? Why would I take anything less than AP3 if cover+AoC negates it? It's not just players either - it's GW. AoC is directly responsible for the AP creep we've seen over the edition and we're slowly sliding back to the lethality on 9th, which isn't a good thing. I can see the argument that Space Marines are the beginner faction so it's reasonable that they should get very obvious buttons to push so people learn how strats work (it was transhuman previously). However, pretending that AoC wasn't incredibly strong is just silly. It's been a massive crutch for a lot of players, hence the visceral reactions to it getting nerfed. The balance issues with vanilla marines are overstated, but gutting AoC (for all factions) and a reduction in/higher costing for AP will hopefully provide a healthier game. If the ultramarine characters get gutted then there's probably enough power-budget to give vanilla marines something in compensation.
GW has to give vanilla marines something. There's no reason to take anything but non-compliant chapters, or Ultramarines. I'd like a "Chapter Compliant" detachment, or rules.
I was going to work on Grey Knights next, but at this point I might just invest in Death Korps of Krieg instead. At least I know they are getting a good update and new units. It sucks because GK are my favorite faction and I really did want to play them, but I can't really do that if gw makes them unplayable
> inceptors would probably want a small points drop small?? the 3" deep strike is the entire reason they're ever taken, their points cost would need to go down to like 100pts per 3 for them to be remotely worth taking at all if the ability is changed to 6"
You may have misunderstood the rumor. The rumor is that abilities granting 3 inches deep strike are all changed to 6 inches deep strike, regular deep strike will remain 9 inches.
It seems unlikely that theyll nerf AoC with how many detatchments recently have been giving out "-1 to wound" stratagems which is much less situational as it works as long as they have enough strength to be worth using a CP for survival. Meanwhile AoC is only worth it if they have AP (but not so much that it doesnt really make the difference) and if you dont have an invulnerable. Also if they have the strength to get enough hits through to really be a threat. Dont get me wrong i can still 100% see them doing this tho due to their trackrecord but its already been nerfed plenty now that there is no using duplicate stratagems anymore
As a necron player, the 3" deep strike nerf would be pretty welcome. A lot of the problem stuff in necrons rn is basically because of hypercrypt. A lot of our strongest stuff has paid big time for the sins of hypercrypt. Frankly, now that we've got starshatter arsenal I wouldn't complain about the detachment going away entirely, just because anything that's good in any detachment is just as good if not better in hypercrypt because of the huge mobility it gives (wraiths with a technomancer, immortals with a plasmancer and just c'tan generally being good examples) and these things have really mostly been hit in proportion to how good they are in hypercrypt, rather than other detachments.
As someone who plays Kroot Tau and Angelic Host Blood Angels, I’m not ready to have both my armies die for the sins of the Necron overlords… be most specific with your nerfs please
Truesilver armor being nerfed hurts GK a LOT more than any other faction. They already dont have a lot going for them outside a cheap trick that only works against bad players. But we only get to double up a strategem ONCE per battle. Not once per round like regular marines. So that hurts them pretty bad.
I don’t know if you know this but regular marines have access to AOC (like yourself) per phase however we can’t double up on it anymore because of the “rites of battle” rule changes, so yeah it’s rough for us both but we’ve been here buddy at least a year now, I’m a UM player and it sucks having to rely on epic hero’s to win games because that shows how weak our units are army wide
@@nicholasd7107 but that’s exactly it, epic heroes shouldn’t be holding up a entire faction, you take away Guilliman, Calgar and Ventris and you are left with 36% winning faction, it isn’t good enough
The 3" Deepstrike is one of the best features of the questionable Dread Talons detachment. If they are gonna nerf it then they better make some more changes to it like allowing charges.
they really have to disjoint codex space marines and dark angels / blood angels and so on... there is no way that space marines can be good without the others just being better as long as they use the same units and detachments... and some more units and detachments, just in case
God I hope so. I don't honestly care either way I just want the Dataslate already so I can resume playing the game instead of "holding my breath" waiting for the Slate.
has nothing to do with the video but will the codex compliant get a grotmas detachment or it was the deathwatch one ? I would say we will get one but I just want to be sure
I cant wait to pay 2 cp for a 6 inch deepstrike in retaliation cadre, so that my meltas don't even get the damage and I don't get the +1 ap from the detachment... yea no way It was a pretty fun detachment while it lasted... :c
Honestly 3" deep strike always felt like feature creep to me, it's like they were told they couldn't make stat lines too powerful for either weapons or units, so instead they started making abilities more effective. Deep strike is already a very powerful rule, and upping it so that you can effectively go right next to units was extreme. Maybe they could have brought the old teleport scatter back, but competitive players would complain about it being too random. Also I generally don't mind AoC being nerfed, it always felt like a hotfix when it was an ability, and it's never really felt balanced as a stratagem since you could pick and choose when to use it, but still have the effect linger for the rest of the phase. I think it would be better if they made it a 1/2CP stratagem, where you can have it work once for 1CP or for the whole phase for 2CP.
I'll worry about my marines when I see the actual dataslate, but really I've stopped expecting nice things as a player of a non-Ultramarines codex army. Worse comes to worst, I'll just hop over to my Orks in the meantime. Marines having a rough time of it is one thing, but even rougher when I see it happen to me repeatedly just by extension over stuff I don't even use.
They have nerfed them in the past when they were struggling. So, I don't see why they wouldn't do it again. I honestly think this is a marketing experiment, to see how bad it needs to get before people stop purchasing Space Marines. It's the only logical explanation for letting the faction get this bad.
@Paranormal-Stupidity I wouldn't put it past GW, yeah. Though with changes coming after Secret Level and other updates syncing up in time with it to ride the hype, it might still turn out better than expected (granted, the bar is hilariously low).
8:26 the vertus praetor missile launchers get one shot and aren’t twin linked, but on the model it has 2 missiles. It should either get twin linked (like the alternate hurricane bolters get) or 2 shots
Good God, I hope they throw us a bone tomorrow with the Grey Knights Grotmas detachment. If they're taking away our 3" deepstrike, I don't really know what else we've got. GK has no damage. ALL we have is the ability to score secondaries, unless you wanna just spam Dreadknights.
AND if they also take away our Armour of Contempt, then Teleport Strike detachment is effectively dead on arrival. The only things keeping GKs afloat is Mists of Deimos, 3" Deepstrike, and Armour of Contempt.
@@lebambam4347 the thing is, your examples do not really differ that much from any other faction, save army wide 2+ save. Our ranged weaponry is absolutely horrendous in general and forces player to spam certain units, and even those have less punch than most of their other faction counterparts. And even if our units were somehow much better, which they are not, they are still heavily overpriced.
Vertus Praetors need their rules changed. Doing 2 MWs (against Infantry only) is not bad, but it's absolutely not worth giving up your shooting and melee for the turn. Jetbikes will never see play when Venatarii are strictly better.
The 3" deepstrike nerf would make the GSC Host of Ascension unplayable. We rely on 3" deepstrikes to shoot with the 6" grenades and 6" flamers from Acolytes. They would be destroying my entire army archetype if they make that change. I hope to god this is a fake leak, but I doubt GW puts in enough thought to consider GSC in that change.
This is the downside of collecting Space Marines - they sell well enough without having to rely on broken rules. GW want to sell other armies to competitive players.
They're going to have a hard time getting people to accept that their army, they spent hundreds of dollars and many hours painting, should be terrible in the game because they sold too well. I wouldn't accept that, and I don't think anyone else should either.
@@Paranormal-StupidityThey will not argue that, instead they will decrease the points on some SM units nobody plays and call that the long awaited buff. Hence their argument will be that SM received a considerable buff.
Auspex: lets not go wild with the anger and pessimism for the marines until we have the whole picture. Me: look at comments....glad to see everyone agreeing with that sentiment 😂
Most sounds good and realistic. However it's odd that Custodes bikes would see changes to their datacard, due to GW aiming to keep datacards untouched when doing updates. People will get annoyed their cards are outdated and other will be frustrated they have to relearn datacards.
Absolutely true, but the counter argument would be the huge list of changes to Admech data sheets in the current balance dataslate. And that’s even an army with a codex, not just a buff by handing out codex information a bit early.
3" deepstrike wouldn't be an issue in game right now if they just kept it on greyknights, deamons and the one massively costed space marine unit, neither greyknights or daemons do enough damage from range to abuse the DS and fits with there army them... but no GW decided to slowly start giving it to almost everyone so it becomes a problem wich now screws over the 2 armies that currently reli on it
i wonder what might happen to dread talons detachment then. like, the 3" deep strike and merciless pursuit ore the only things the detachment has for itself
I can see why armor of contemt could be nerfed. It's the Stratagem i used the most because is so convenient. But if it's nerft this way it will make the Stratgem very weak and situational. Then cut it pls completely and replace it with usefull and specific strats for each chapter.
Nerf deep strike for armies that don't rely on it. Doing it for Grey knights will be a massive blow and the faction has already suffered enough. They should nerf it for factions such as Space marines, death guard, hell even necrons. ( I play death guard and necrons)
Huh nerf it for SM?! Do you know we are the worst faction in the game for a year and your saying GK are having it rough 😂, but the way the trend goes you’ll be right because GW are a bunch of clowns
>Marines need help, they've suffered too much for the sins of divergent chapters. The dataslate will fix this!
>Look inside
>Marine nerfs
chungus nerfs
Nerf to pretty much any power armored faction. Sisters, Grey Knights, CSM, Votann. Of which only Votann seem to be problematic right now
Literally.
Sounds like gw just stopped caring.
Besides marines are a “beginner faction”
@@arn1345gw dropping a wide ranging nuke on multiple faction to combat the minor excesses of one? Sounds right to me.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
most leaked rules are space marine nerfs? sounds like its gonna be real then
it strikes me too much as ragebait
6" Deepstrike makes sense because of what we saw in the Thousand Sons Hexwarp Thrallband stratagem. Where you can elect to Deepstrike a Scarab Occult Terminator unit to 6" and no charging.
Back in October, my Day 1 to a local tourney was Hyperwarp, Grey Knights, and Belakor's Shadow teleporting around and forcing my Pactbound Zealots to play very deadly Whack-A-Mole. TL;DR I'm more than happy with this idea of a 3" deepstrike turning to 6"
@@gratuitouslurking8610 You were playing against Hexwarp, a detachment that just came out last week, back in October?
@@Mythralblade04 Hyperwarp, scuse my brain being a fuck.
@@Mythralblade04 Member of Cult of Time I suppose
This was my thought exactly. The Grotmas detachments have probably been written with the upcoming balance datatslate in mind since they go live for tournament play in January.
- GSC at 61% wr at tournaments.
- Space Marines 2nd at the bottom.
So this leak should be true. There's not a single chance that marines are not receiving nerfs in every balance dataslate.
To be fair last time I checked GSC accounts for like a little less than 2% of Tournament matches. So while those pro players are doing great - the average GSC player most likely isn't. However, SM don't deserve to be nerfed lol
@Vante21 I've just GSC cos they are winning big right now. I could pick for example Thousand Sons, Necrons or Adepta Sororitas whom have been winning with more than 55% so far this year. I understand that GW is a company and they need to do business ofc... but the model of business based on "well we already sell tons of marines so f*ck off nerf them to the ground" and the other side "we don't sell this army (GSC for example) so buff them to the sky" well I could work but for the players is a mess... That's my point of view as a player. For example my Vanguard Spearhead list since January goes up in 290 points even not been the most broken list year ago.
@@viciaoalwow95Don’t know what you’re talking about with sisters, they were big for a while, but after last balance and now this one they’ve effectively butchered sisters with this balance slate, massive points increases even on units no one uses, and massive nerfs to Miracle dice and our detachments. Hell they even nerfed Imperial Guard.
Necrons and GSC seem to be GWs favourite armies atm
Space Marines win rates are far too high at 36%, nerf them! - GW
It's one of the most played factions. And It has a good list that can ein against everything...if you are building shitty lists...you lose. So if you play tournaments, play Vanguard, if not why do you care about winrates? stop crying ffs.
@mathiasschulze6148 Because this winrate does align with the feeling that VANILLA space marines (so, not even Ultras/IF/IH/RG/Salamanders/WS) do not pack any significant punch (To be fair, outside using Ultras characters, even those other core codex chapters do not pack that significantly more powerful punch
@@Fayheurblode yeah but pls stop crying. There will be a new detachment and major rule updates...do you think these is the only changes for SM?...ffs...GW is not always pinpoint but all in all the balancing is realy good in 40k. They will try...a balanced game is the best driver for more money...
@mathiasschulze6148 I’m not crying about it, just explaining the thing… It was literally how it happened for each and every dataslate update this version that the guy originally joked about
@mathiasschulze6148I've never seen someone cry so much about 'crying'...
March Dataslate predictions:
Assault Intercessors now cost 415 points
Captain Free Stratagem now costs a CP
If you field Codex compliant Marines, you lost 10 VP at the end of the game
Gullimane now costs 2500 points
Are you sure you're not on the 40k rules team?
Womp womp
Lore accurate marines
I am all for primarchs costing 2500 points. They are a mistake
My prediction: Each time an intercessor unit shoot with their range weapons, they end up shooting themselves instead.
I just imagine some dude in Gdubs, dang it that one marine unit somehow survived 1 turn against all odds, nerf AoC to death 😅
It's beyond a joke now.
@Paranormal-Stupidity in a game where 2+/4++ is a thing on vehicles/monsters marine survivability is a problem XD?
@@peters6345 not to mention those units generally cost less and are far more lethal than anything in the Marine Codex...
Absolutely. This dataslate will probably drop riptides to 160 or something just to make sure we all get the point.
If they don't do anything to boost the Ork buggies then they never will
They do need a big boost
God it’s all I really want. I just want them to be playable so bad
It ain't beast boys. So never happening
@@drdotts8878 fr I don't need them to be the best in the range I just need them to be viable
@@BadZombie no one needs your negativity
I suppose the first big question with that AoC nerf is whether it'd apply to just that Stratagem, or all strats that do the same thing like the CSM and Sororitas versions. The former seems oddly targeted on a weaker faction, whereas the latter would be very bad news for Sisters since they have very little access to 2+ saves in their Codex and tend to have to take more saves due to low toughness.
I'm also puzzled as to what 'problem' it's supposed to be solving, unless Necrons not being able to delete anything they don't like in a single turn is considered to be a problem.
Honestly... no idea what problem this would solve. Speculating here, but it would make sense if there's going to be a big AP drop on anti tank/anti elite weaponry in the game (-1 on most heavier things across the board - so Melta down to -3, lascannons to -2 etc.). It would make the game less deadly overall & the nerf to AoC-esque stratagems would make a lot of sense in that context (given the durability isn't really needed as much at that point).
And from a game design point of view it seems reasonable in my mind; AoC has to be factored into shooting armies math (Tau, Necrons etc) - so they need higher AP to deal with it, the downside is all that AP creates a problem for balance if you don't have an AoC equivalent for your army/detachment. If AoC is a lot more restrictive in that it can only work against a single enemy; it can still be used to spot check powerful individual shooting/melee, but its' more of a situational bonus rather than a make or break thing as there would be much less high AP across the board for shooting. It would be a buff (or at least sidegrade) to the factions that have access to it in that context.
But GW has not done anything to that scale so far in 10th and I don't know if they will.
I'd imagine it'd be all similarly worded stratagems as that seems to be how they've balanced things so far in 10th (IE; Captain free stratagems, or the Lord of Deceit/ Vect aura).
@@jaldren1385 Yeah, it's a bit too common to have 2+ save + cover + AOC. This means big guns need to be pushing AP4 or better to reliably get damage through. If they fix both ends of this then AOC becomes a way to punish wombo combos while still letting missile launchers do their job.
3" deep strike makes total sense, it has very little counter play, you just can't screen 3" and it was too powerful to balance. Hopefully makes inceptors cheaper and more usable now as useful shooting damage unit.
AOC change is just baffling, in some cases there are units whos only real argument for using them are a 2+ save in cover and the option to AOC to make them really tanky, like terminators or redemptor dreads, now what have these units got? It also is just a buff for shooting armies, when they are dominating the meta in the main. So someone can still blunt your squad of AP2 melee dramatically, but all the ignores cover, AP3 mass shooting from Tau, Guard etc. nah you have to die to that, especially for marine vehicles that don't have invuls either. Like they have given ignores cover options to SOOO many armies on their shooting and now they are nerfing AOC, so they really want those expensive vehicles just blapped off the board, but then like Necrons get a cracked vehicle detachment and most of their vehicles have a 4+ invul, yeh seems balanced.
I 100% believe the Armor of Contempt thing, because Space Marines cannot go a single update without scathing nerfs for absolutely no reason.
It will be something to behold. If they bump primaris tanks to 2+ then it might be ok.
@@letsgetit792 it wont, the over abundnance of ap4 weapons means you are still dead.
I agree they said they were going to help vanilla space marine. A nerf is needed for sure.
Also a buff to other faction to make sure poster boys are properly rescued
Fuck me... What a way to ruin the best stratagem. But other factions still have their own armor of contempt with the minus 1 ap but with another name for it.
@@totalnizmetek Yeah they're so many AP -4 weapons that almost everyone is running around with tank spam. Did you run into 3 Doomsday Arks and Settlers of C'tan? T'au Stealth Suits and Sunforged Crisis Suits? The only things that get AP -4 are either Monsters, Tanks,, extremely rarely an infantry character, or a Melta type weapon.
Auspex: "Please try not to lose your mind in the comments." He says, seeing the shadow of the looming tsunami of salt 😅
I agree the AoC nerf looks bad in a vacuum, assuming it's accurate. I'm waiting to see the entire picture. If there are changes to cover or terrain, a nerf to AoC makes more sense....or GW could have just effed up again. We do not know enough to make a judgment either way
Wait…are you…being reasonable? WTF man!
@dariocenciarelli1090 I know, the greatest heresy of them all!
@@crazyshak4827 well, this comment aged well
@dariocenciarelli1090 lol yeah, I was completely wrong lmao. Though honestly, considering the battery of buffs SM got, I'm still not unhappy. I'd be saltier if I was GK or Votaan, tbh
@@crazyshak4827 agree 100%
Im actually so sick of Marines getting massive nerfs when they are literally the worst faction in the game. Its not even to things that are overpowered. Anything even half decent gets the guillotine. Dont worry though, the hammerfall bunker will get -1 points, lets goooo!
They are far from worst. Womp womp
@aramiscorpus9747 updated yesterday on goonhammer
Worst - Codex Space Marines 42.8%
Next worst Codex Chaos Space Marines 44. 36%
take nothing but cheap space marine vehicles problem solved. I can get 3 brutalis dreads and 3 gladiators really cheap points wise.
@@Adamantos-Eleanbrutalis were much better in 9th than 10th, lancers are certainly very good though
@@aramiscorpus9747goodhammer says they are the worst, sad poyo
AoC only being useful against 1 unit would effectively kill the stratagem. I would rather spend the CP on a save reroll. Thats utterly ridiculous lol
Yea, I personally would be happy with just adding that you can't gain the benefits of Cover while affected by the strat.
@@Mythralblade04which makes it useless?
It would still be useful in melee, many armies have Ap -1, Ap-2 melee, so if you are fighting only one unit reducing their AP is still very good. In shooting it's much more situational, yes.
@@ChibiPanda yea it’ll still be good in melee, but melee isn’t where SMs need help, they need help at range.
To be honest, if AoC going to be changed this much then it should go back to being an army rule like in 9th instead of a stratagem.
I see. They're looking to make Agents look better by nuking Space Marines even though after the last points update, all SM have been a non issue competitively
They are gonna need absolutely massive points drops to make up for AoC change since it's the only reason SM end up being tanky enough to survive the crazy shooting that a lot of armies have.
Inceptors losing their job sucks as well. 6"DS still makes it easier to get in for sure, but the margin from 9" to 6" is so little these guys are gonna need to be brought down heavily in points to be as useful as they are now. The buffs they alluded to for SM better be eye watering because you can't really reduce this army's points anymore before they become GSC cheap.
GW: "we help Space Marines" , yeah help to achive 30% win rate
Those are rookie numbers. GW can push it even lower. Guess they want us to quit the hobby entirely...
@@Paranormal-Stupidityand that’s why I 3D print minis, hurts way less to have a $100 2000 point army become crappy than a $500 one
You do know that all the best worst and newest players all play space marines and 70+% of players play them bringing down the average to that and that’s not taking into account all the other chapters that have codexes that have a higher win rate and all those armies share most of the same datasheets
@Trinine9 the classic take of someone who has never played in a tournament, and can't read. BCP tracks player stats and they completely contradict your claims. By all means, keep believing that when marines do well the players are all veterans, but magically forget how to play when they don't.
I mean it’s restricted to one unit per phase. How problematic was it? Marines literally need AOC against the massive amount of ap-2 or higher attacks out there and the lack of invulns everywhere except on a few units other than characters.
It wasn't problematic at all. We were paying for survivability that is inferior to what other factions get for free.
While I agree that hitting SM with another nerf sucks, we don't know what other changes will there be in next dataslate.
The problem is that GW gave AOC to many other armies and other SM chapters like Dark Angels or Blood angels.
Codex SM have almost no invus or feel no pain on their units(apart from terminators who barely anyone plays, and bladeguards who are decent yes) so it kind of sucks for SM players if AOC is changed because it's our only tool to survive in the game where most weapon are designed to kill space marines profiles, but having AOC on units with 2+ native save(like GK, Deathwing knights and votann or meganobz) is also really annoying as well.
@@ChibiPanda Agreed - the issue started when both Space Marines with their T4 3+/-/- and Custodes with their T5/6 2+/4++ were both deigned targets of the same 1CP stat.
@@Paranormal-Stupidity it was a massive problem VS factions whit low AP
Marine armies get a lot of -2 AP Xeno armies mostly dont so this strat has been forcing Xeno armies to stack high AP everywhere and cover is all over the place so that -2 is actually a -0 AP whit that strat
"Codex space Marines need help!" -nerfs armour of contempt-
This company is brilliant
And inceptors. IF this is real, the buffs to non-Smurf codex marines will need to be titanic.
Also, Land Raider Redeemers will see a "small points nerf" to 450.
ap reduction strats getting nerfed to one unit's attacks seems fishy to me....that basically kills those strats.
@@maxaslagolis also negates the Exterminator
It makes sense to balance any game away from spamming one mechanic being the meta.
Why?
@@Phlebas99 Well, when every other offensive or defensive strat in the game contains a phrase that basically states that the effect of the strat is in effect the end of the phase, then only targeting one specific type of strat, ap reduction, for a nerf is too narrow unless every strat in the game were to be affected equal since there defensive strats that give damage reduction, invulnverable saves, FNP saves, and -1 to hit or wound. These all can swing the result of a single roll.
In most cases this strat is used for a dread or a tank who will have cover so befitting from 1 AP reduction already you add AoC and that -2 AP anty tank weapon Xeno factions get is now a -0 AP weapon
So from what I’m hearing is codex SM probably aren’t gonna be fixed
You heard right. Looks like Warhammer is for everyone, unless you want to play Codex Space Marines. Good business model...
@ yeah I got the SM codex wanting to play my own custom salamanders/white scars chapters and ever since I got them it’s felt like a waste of time
@@arthurmorgan1809 I'm in the exact same boat. Feels good.
@@Paranormal-StupidityMe too. It sucks. Also isn’t that the whole selling point of the space marines making your own custom chapter?
@@codename1176 I thought so, but we were clearly wrong. It would seem that if you aren't playing ultramarines or a divergent chapter, then you are playing the faction wrong... I guess.
Marines-kinda suck in the meta
GW-let's make their better stratagem worse!
Deathwatch saw an upgrade on bolt weapons ap and damage. So i guess maybe Basic SM gets that update too. Making SM more lethal overall would make the AoC nerf less bad. Anyway AoC is used every round so maybe it needs a nerv. I dont belive they would do it without some serious buffs to SM.
To balance core marines they should have their armor of contempt remain the same if they're nerfing it otherwise.
Nah, I'm still of the opinion that core SM should have their old Oath back. You want codex supplements? You lose wound re-rolls.
@@Mythralblade04 100%
6" deepstike and aoc nerf. Way to go help them out gw. So glad i dropped them
I think the best indication of what is coming is the Grotmas detachments as there are multiple common strategems that are different from normal:
-3 inch deepstrikes are all 6 inch deep strikes.
-Sticky objectives last until your opponent controls them at the start of any phase rather than at the start of any turn.
-Strategems that let vehicles move through models or terrain no longer carry a risk of getting battleshocked if you move through terrain taller than 4 inches.
With that in mind, I think the Armour of Contempt change is unlikely, as AoC is unchanged in both the Dark Angels and Deathwatch detachments... unless AoC is different as it shares the same name as existing strategems, and they didn't want two versions of it existing at the same time.
I really hope if they do change 3 inch deep strike to 6 inches they remember that daemons already get that from the detachment ability, they need to just outright rework that stratagem to do something else otherwise you are left with a stratagem that does nothing besides take away your ability to charge.
Codex marines would see a better win rate if they just stopped letting divergent chapters use the codex detachments.
This data slate’s sounding like it’s gonna be the balancing of all time.
Wow …. not a single rumor that’s actually a buff to vanilla SM, but more nerfs. … so if there are no play testing rumors for any new SM rules, will the help GW promised just be point drops on the units nobody likes? It does look a bit like it, tbh.
This is so hard to take serious anymore. Every time we turn around we’re promised fixes to Space Marines, and we receive only nerfs. And more nerfs. I hate this edition and its dataslate insanity.
If they go to far they will kill their sales
Not Armor of Contempt 😭
I already can't deal any damage and now I have to die more, too? Fucks sake I hope the "help" they mentioned is actually serious.
All bolters have their maximum ranged increased by 2." You're welcome - GW
5 points off the Astraeus, Merry Christmas :)
Me still painting the box of intercessors I bought last year.
"Already!?"
I hope you are painting them red...
I understand these are rumors but dude if any of these are true than Space marines will be unplayable.
There is a good chance that these rumours are true. GW doesn't care if Marines are unplayable. Codex Space Marines outside of Ultramarines has been unplayable for a good part of 6 months now.
@@Paranormal-Stupidity I understand the frustration from the old dataslates but maybe you can wait for the actual buff in the dataslates before complaining ? we don't know anything yet.
@@Paranormal-Stupidityits very frustrating as a newer player, i watched a bunch of lore read a few books and fell in love with the Ultra Marines. It blows my mind that they allow the biggest selling component of 40k(space marine models) be this bad in game.
The new grey knights detachment have a strategem to deep strike a unit 6 inch away from enemy units... COINCIDENCE?! I think not
But they can charge, all 3 inches deep strike I know can’t charge.
@davidgantenbein9362 and here we have the dataslate
> Space Marines being the most played faction
> intermittently and excessively nerf them
> push players to buy other factions
> ?????
> record YoY earnings
This guy has it worked out.
And that would be a good thing because playing all the time against Space Marines gets boring.
@@Grinchpryde No, but you know what is actually boring? Having an army with Hundred of hours and dollars put into it and not being able to use it as intended.
@@Grinchpryde the solution should NOT nerfing them after so many people starting the hobby with SM. They should push other armies and faction on the front to help them gain visibility. It's begining to look like some scam now
I just got a Land Raider Redeemer, so I hope it can at least survive a turn lmao. Seriously tho, why do space marines keep getting nerfs every update when even gw says they need buffed?
No 6 inch deepstrike isn't great for retaliation cadre. No more melta out of drop with +1 ap
Ret Cadre would be pretty wrecked, yeah. Even reducing the Strat too 1cp wouldn't help.
My understanding is in competitive that strat is fine but generally a trap. 2cp is expensive and if you know what you’re doing it’s easy enough to get them within that range without a deep strike.
Rapid ingressing cold star sunforge is a better way of getting your unit within melta range as is. Most times I use the Strat to get the infantry sweeper where it needs to go
Yeah, I kinda see this same issue with a lot of Detachments using 3" deepstrikes as a core strategy. GSC have Acos with Hand Flamers and Bombs both as 6" weapons. Delivering that into shooting range becomes effectively impossible without a 3" Deepstrike. 6" guns sort of require a 3" deepstrike to be any good
I don’t think armor of contempt was that big of a deal and if it is for certain armies then just make it not available to the problematic units. Your going to help codex space marines and then nerf one of its decent stratagems if this holds true so doesn’t make much sense to me
we will have to see why they nerf it (maybe because of a buff that increase the durability ?) but yeah the stratagem on his own wasn't a problem. I have never seen someone saying it was too strong or unbalanced
@@Grassouillelafripouillehalf the time I don’t even use it because I’m either being hit by an AP 0 or AP 3, no in between
Space marines are already as weak as thread and over coated.
This will sink them
@@helwrecht1637 just need to wait and see the buff. Also it's not confirmed so could be a false information
@@masterch1ef297 AoC was objectively an overpowered strat. Most armies pay 1CP to increase the AP of a unit/ignore cover for one activation. Having access to "reduce the AP of the enemy reactively by 1 for multiple activations" for the same cost was obviously very good. For further example: non-space marine versions of the strat (Chaos and GK) debuted at 2CP.
The main problem with AoC is that it was so good it has warped the meta. You explain in your own post how people take AP0 or AP3 with nothing in between. Why do you think this is? Why would I take anything less than AP3 if cover+AoC negates it? It's not just players either - it's GW. AoC is directly responsible for the AP creep we've seen over the edition and we're slowly sliding back to the lethality on 9th, which isn't a good thing.
I can see the argument that Space Marines are the beginner faction so it's reasonable that they should get very obvious buttons to push so people learn how strats work (it was transhuman previously). However, pretending that AoC wasn't incredibly strong is just silly. It's been a massive crutch for a lot of players, hence the visceral reactions to it getting nerfed.
The balance issues with vanilla marines are overstated, but gutting AoC (for all factions) and a reduction in/higher costing for AP will hopefully provide a healthier game. If the ultramarine characters get gutted then there's probably enough power-budget to give vanilla marines something in compensation.
GW has to give vanilla marines something. There's no reason to take anything but non-compliant chapters, or Ultramarines. I'd like a "Chapter Compliant" detachment, or rules.
As a Grey Knights player this would destroy our faction effectively. Unless of course the new detachment we get tomorrow goes crazy (not likely)
Yeah two big nerfs to a struggling faction
I was going to work on Grey Knights next, but at this point I might just invest in Death Korps of Krieg instead. At least I know they are getting a good update and new units. It sucks because GK are my favorite faction and I really did want to play them, but I can't really do that if gw makes them unplayable
*sigh*. It was a good run.
L2P
They better change the range to hybrid acolyte bombs to 7 inches, otherwise it'll be impossible for them to deepstrike and shoot them.
Nothing like huge holiday nerfs
Nerf to Vanilla Marines... wtf? They should get some major boost, not nerf.
> inceptors would probably want a small points drop
small?? the 3" deep strike is the entire reason they're ever taken, their points cost would need to go down to like 100pts per 3 for them to be remotely worth taking at all if the ability is changed to 6"
Ahhh yes let’s nerf marines harder!
If custodes bikes could have datasheet-wide assault on their guns, they could honestly be of use
That or charge after advancing.
assault on guns is very very meh does not move the needle on that turd MAC well that is a whole different story
@@Kaegroyou would be a fine addition to the GW rules writer team
I feel this all will happen and the SM will have nothing done for them worth anything.
Armor of contempt nerf is hilarious. Everyone begging for a space marine biff amd yet they want to nerf them
Dreadnoughts need help
deep strikes 6 inch... not likely with GK new detachment giving them exactly that rule for a cp.... unless its a standard cp rule also
You may have misunderstood the rumor. The rumor is that abilities granting 3 inches deep strike are all changed to 6 inches deep strike, regular deep strike will remain 9 inches.
Man give my iron hands space marines a little love..... my buddy plays necrons and that new detetchment is gonna be brutal to play against!
It seems unlikely that theyll nerf AoC with how many detatchments recently have been giving out "-1 to wound" stratagems which is much less situational as it works as long as they have enough strength to be worth using a CP for survival. Meanwhile AoC is only worth it if they have AP (but not so much that it doesnt really make the difference) and if you dont have an invulnerable. Also if they have the strength to get enough hits through to really be a threat.
Dont get me wrong i can still 100% see them doing this tho due to their trackrecord but its already been nerfed plenty now that there is no using duplicate stratagems anymore
Inceptors will be trash if their points won't be lowered.
As a necron player, the 3" deep strike nerf would be pretty welcome. A lot of the problem stuff in necrons rn is basically because of hypercrypt. A lot of our strongest stuff has paid big time for the sins of hypercrypt. Frankly, now that we've got starshatter arsenal I wouldn't complain about the detachment going away entirely, just because anything that's good in any detachment is just as good if not better in hypercrypt because of the huge mobility it gives (wraiths with a technomancer, immortals with a plasmancer and just c'tan generally being good examples) and these things have really mostly been hit in proportion to how good they are in hypercrypt, rather than other detachments.
If the deep strike change is true, then the 6 in deep strike strat for Scarab Terminators makes sense.
5:07 thought you were going to buff spacemariens not nuke them out of existence
It would be better if it was a once per turn rule
AI will probably mean our extinction at the hands of robots - but it would be worth it if only GW used it for a bit to sort out their rules.
Well if they're gonna do that to AOC they'd better make it a free stratagem for any unit
I hate rumors, they just make me anxious.
As someone who plays Kroot Tau and Angelic Host Blood Angels, I’m not ready to have both my armies die for the sins of the Necron overlords… be most specific with your nerfs please
Truesilver armor being nerfed hurts GK a LOT more than any other faction. They already dont have a lot going for them outside a cheap trick that only works against bad players. But we only get to double up a strategem ONCE per battle. Not once per round like regular marines. So that hurts them pretty bad.
Yeah bro we’re cooked
I don’t know if you know this but regular marines have access to AOC (like yourself) per phase however we can’t double up on it anymore because of the “rites of battle” rule changes, so yeah it’s rough for us both but we’ve been here buddy at least a year now, I’m a UM player and it sucks having to rely on epic hero’s to win games because that shows how weak our units are army wide
@ tbf tho you’re lucky you have those epic heroes to win with. Not everyone has a Marneus Calgar
@@nicholasd7107 but that’s exactly it, epic heroes shouldn’t be holding up a entire faction, you take away Guilliman, Calgar and Ventris and you are left with 36% winning faction, it isn’t good enough
The 3" Deepstrike is one of the best features of the questionable Dread Talons detachment. If they are gonna nerf it then they better make some more changes to it like allowing charges.
Ah, welcome to our corner, let me introduce you to Unending Swarm
They at least have to fix the battleshock a unit within 6" part not working with deepstrike outside of 6".
Pls no nerf to armor of contempt : (
they really have to disjoint codex space marines and dark angels / blood angels and so on... there is no way that space marines can be good without the others just being better as long as they use the same units and detachments... and some more units and detachments, just in case
Did the December giveaway get announced?
I expect 90 pts for 3 interceptors then.
GW - Best I can do is 200.
dunno but I feel like the Guard are gonna take some hits or none at all cuz we get a codex soon
God I hope so.
I don't honestly care either way I just want the Dataslate already so I can resume playing the game instead of "holding my breath" waiting for the Slate.
I mean you can still play nothing stopping you
I don’t think a new data slate invalidates any games you play before it’s released…
@@MedTech37572 Or mebbe folks should play a game system that doesn't need patches constantly like a bad MMO.
has nothing to do with the video but will the codex compliant get a grotmas detachment or it was the deathwatch one ? I would say we will get one but I just want to be sure
Well we have one for DA and DW. I assume this means all the marines will get one;
-codex
-BA
-BT
-DA
-DW
-SW
They announced marine detachment for tomorrow 12/11 with the Grey knights drop today
@taten-jinmu718 already out yeah. Canoptekh court detachment rule
@@taten-jinmu718 I saw that too but thank you for telling me
I cant wait to pay 2 cp for a 6 inch deepstrike in retaliation cadre, so that my meltas don't even get the damage and I don't get the +1 ap from the detachment... yea no way
It was a pretty fun detachment while it lasted... :c
Honestly 3" deep strike always felt like feature creep to me, it's like they were told they couldn't make stat lines too powerful for either weapons or units, so instead they started making abilities more effective. Deep strike is already a very powerful rule, and upping it so that you can effectively go right next to units was extreme. Maybe they could have brought the old teleport scatter back, but competitive players would complain about it being too random. Also I generally don't mind AoC being nerfed, it always felt like a hotfix when it was an ability, and it's never really felt balanced as a stratagem since you could pick and choose when to use it, but still have the effect linger for the rest of the phase. I think it would be better if they made it a 1/2CP stratagem, where you can have it work once for 1CP or for the whole phase for 2CP.
I'll worry about my marines when I see the actual dataslate, but really I've stopped expecting nice things as a player of a non-Ultramarines codex army. Worse comes to worst, I'll just hop over to my Orks in the meantime.
Marines having a rough time of it is one thing, but even rougher when I see it happen to me repeatedly just by extension over stuff I don't even use.
They have nerfed them in the past when they were struggling. So, I don't see why they wouldn't do it again. I honestly think this is a marketing experiment, to see how bad it needs to get before people stop purchasing Space Marines. It's the only logical explanation for letting the faction get this bad.
@Paranormal-Stupidity I wouldn't put it past GW, yeah. Though with changes coming after Secret Level and other updates syncing up in time with it to ride the hype, it might still turn out better than expected (granted, the bar is hilariously low).
And once again, Space Marines are not allowed to have nice things.
8:26 the vertus praetor missile launchers get one shot and aren’t twin linked, but on the model it has 2 missiles. It should either get twin linked (like the alternate hurricane bolters get) or 2 shots
If they will nerf again codex marines, just fu** this edtion.
what is the point of deep strike then? lol oh I get it they are coming out with new drop pods.
6 is still better than 9
Good God, I hope they throw us a bone tomorrow with the Grey Knights Grotmas detachment. If they're taking away our 3" deepstrike, I don't really know what else we've got. GK has no damage. ALL we have is the ability to score secondaries, unless you wanna just spam Dreadknights.
AND if they also take away our Armour of Contempt, then Teleport Strike detachment is effectively dead on arrival. The only things keeping GKs afloat is Mists of Deimos, 3" Deepstrike, and Armour of Contempt.
Mass 2+ 6/2/2, librarian MW, flat 6 advance w/ assault and +1 to hit, mists, sigil, draigo, and just.. general fuckery. GK still have lots of play.
@@lebambam4347in melee and mortal wound bomb from Librarians is incredibly swingy, not to mention it ends up hurting us sometimes.
@@lebambam4347 the thing is, your examples do not really differ that much from any other faction, save army wide 2+ save. Our ranged weaponry is absolutely horrendous in general and forces player to spam certain units, and even those have less punch than most of their other faction counterparts. And even if our units were somehow much better, which they are not, they are still heavily overpriced.
@nicholasd7107 2+ isn't swingy. Also lobbies having a FNP against their 1 is just... so fun for the GK opponent.
I’m on the verge of quitting 40K tbh, invested heavily in core space marines and it’s not been a good experience … and no, you can’t have my stuff 😅
Vertus Praetors need their rules changed. Doing 2 MWs (against Infantry only) is not bad, but it's absolutely not worth giving up your shooting and melee for the turn. Jetbikes will never see play when Venatarii are strictly better.
and cost more with less movement due to terrain grainted the new detachment gives them that fao a cp but that is the only rule that helps them
6” deep strike would destroy Retaliation Cadre for Tau. Shortened Blade costs 2CP to balance it out as it is.
The 3" deepstrike nerf would make the GSC Host of Ascension unplayable. We rely on 3" deepstrikes to shoot with the 6" grenades and 6" flamers from Acolytes. They would be destroying my entire army archetype if they make that change. I hope to god this is a fake leak, but I doubt GW puts in enough thought to consider GSC in that change.
If T'au catch *another* gamewide nerf for the sins of IG on the deepstrike thing, I might just quit the game...
This is the downside of collecting Space Marines - they sell well enough without having to rely on broken rules. GW want to sell other armies to competitive players.
They're going to have a hard time getting people to accept that their army, they spent hundreds of dollars and many hours painting, should be terrible in the game because they sold too well. I wouldn't accept that, and I don't think anyone else should either.
@@Paranormal-Stupidity GW's Space Marine money printer goes brrrrrrrrr
@@Paranormal-StupidityThey will not argue that, instead they will decrease the points on some SM units nobody plays and call that the long awaited buff. Hence their argument will be that SM received a considerable buff.
Custodes bikes rules being a "special level of bad"... so true!
Auspex: lets not go wild with the anger and pessimism for the marines until we have the whole picture.
Me: look at comments....glad to see everyone agreeing with that sentiment 😂
Ok GW, we get it. You want us to buy more of your minis. But you know what's the issue? I WILL CONTINUE TO BE RECAST AND 3D PRINTED MINIATURES!
Most sounds good and realistic. However it's odd that Custodes bikes would see changes to their datacard, due to GW aiming to keep datacards untouched when doing updates. People will get annoyed their cards are outdated and other will be frustrated they have to relearn datacards.
Absolutely true, but the counter argument would be the huge list of changes to Admech data sheets in the current balance dataslate. And that’s even an army with a codex, not just a buff by handing out codex information a bit early.
RIP sunforge crisis suits.... 6" deep strike would mean no melta...
As a daemons player this worries me but not too much
I am so angry about this totally confirmed nerf to Armour of contempt.
This is going to murder Grey Knights if true.
my hackathon already doesn't have defensives. nerfing void armor would just let tau wreck me even harder xD T_T
Marines are a joke... sad times :(
For Emperor’s sake! Make them eagle bikes good again!
3" deepstrike wouldn't be an issue in game right now if they just kept it on greyknights, deamons and the one massively costed space marine unit, neither greyknights or daemons do enough damage from range to abuse the DS and fits with there army them... but no GW decided to slowly start giving it to almost everyone so it becomes a problem wich now screws over the 2 armies that currently reli on it
i wonder what might happen to dread talons detachment then. like, the 3" deep strike and merciless pursuit ore the only things the detachment has for itself
I can see why armor of contemt could be nerfed. It's the Stratagem i used the most because is so convenient. But if it's nerft this way it will make the Stratgem very weak and situational. Then cut it pls completely and replace it with usefull and specific strats for each chapter.
Nerf deep strike for armies that don't rely on it. Doing it for Grey knights will be a massive blow and the faction has already suffered enough. They should nerf it for factions such as Space marines, death guard, hell even necrons. ( I play death guard and necrons)
Huh nerf it for SM?! Do you know we are the worst faction in the game for a year and your saying GK are having it rough 😂, but the way the trend goes you’ll be right because GW are a bunch of clowns
As a custode bike player I hope they buff the dawn eagle jet bike they are a really cool unit
Changing to 6” away will effect my crisis suits in retaliation cadres, so that’s a bit disappointing