Timestamps In the debate, but not real contenders: 5:17 Jose Aldo 14:35 Dominick Cruz 21:10 Demetrious Johnson 26:05 BJ Penn 36:29 Daniel Cormier 45:17 Randy Couture 51:51 Kamaru Usman 58:02 Khabib Nurmagomedov 1:04:58 Israel Adesanya 1:10:35 Dan Henderson 1:16:21 Alexander Volkanovski 1:19:42 Henry Cejudo The real G.O.A.T contenders!!: 1:23:12 Fedor Emelianenko 1:30:20 Anderson Silva 1:37:22 Georges St-Pierre 1:44:46 Jon Jones TL;DR - Thorin's eye test and gut telling him Fedor is the GOAT, but his mind is telling him Jon Jones is the GOAT
@@dirtydard4870 you are asking stupid questions... what do you get out of commenting here? what do you get out of watching any entertainment at all? not everything has a bigger purpose mate people do things for their own entertainment or satisfaction or to spend time or whatever... do you and stop caring what others do
Thorin finally talks at length about something I know a lot about. So far, very few moments that have left me screaming at my monitor. I think there is various gaps in your knowledge across the board that would slightly change your analysis if you considered them. However, this is literally my main thing, and just yet another sport for you. So yeah hats off. This is pretty much as good as casual historical analysis can get without getting into hardcore shit.
Few knocks against Jones you didnt mention; he was the bigger and longer guy in every fight except two, which were the ones he arguably lost. He then abused that range to the max by constantly splaying his fingers and making people scared of eye pokes. I don't like this idea of 'he was so good he didnt need to cheat.' I think his dominance is in no small part because of his cheating. He loses that fight to Cormier if he didnt poke him in the eye. I dont even think thats controversial. He just cheated and ruined the whole fight and people put it down as a great win. And this isn't even accounting for the fact that he should have had points deducted. If the refs actually did their job, there's a chance Jones doesn't even make it to this discussion because he just wouldnt have the resume. Contrast that with mighty mouse, a dude who was the smaller guy in every fight and wasnt a known cheater. Idk. I think I take more stake in the asterisks on Jones' name than you do.
By longer do you mean height? If so why not say taller? Because longer means reach and he has never fought anyone with even remotely the same ape-index as himself, he does after all have one of the longest ever measured. But I agree with you overall, I personally think Jones is unbelievably overrated and his body type and general athleticism carried him in one of the weakest divisions in the "modern" UFC.
@@QenaitheCustodianGuard Yes, by longer I was referring to his reach. He also tends to be taller but I think thats less important. I was saying he has a longer reach than everyone and it gave him a significant advantage that he abused to the maximum degree. Generally when I consider my goat options, I favour fighters that did not possess innate physical advantages over most of their opponents. Especially not ones that used that physical advantage to cheat, like Jones did with his eye pokes. His constantly splayed fingers at the end of his long reach was a fundamental part of his game, and its against the rules. It also actually lead to fight ruining eye pokes. I was disappointed that Thorin didnt really discuss this much. Jones is great but the eye test just doesnt pass for me because of this. Also, yeah, as you say, its fucking light heavyweight lol.
Mighty mouse also transferred into an arguably more competitive ONE championship weight class, and has continued to dominate and perform even in muay Thai too, his resume is arguably better too.
Wow great list thorin! I am a huge mma fan and honestly didn’t expect you to be this knowledgeable about mma, but seeing fedor on the top and aldo mentioned warms my heart. More content please!
Having watched through the 2000's I find it easy: GSP - is the greatest champions - he was consistent and fought the best and defended again and again, came back from early losses to develop a fool proof style. Also very underrated mental game JJ - is just the most dangerous fighter period, no one more creative, no one more cruel, and no one more self sabotaging , hate the guy, but you gotta hand it to him
My top contenders: 1. Fedor Emelianenko 2. Demetrious Johnson 3. Georges St-Pierre 4. Jon Jones 5. Anderson Silva Great to see some MMA content on here!
For Fedor, the no contest (the number in parentheses) is not included in the number of losses. So Fedor actually had 1 loss early in his career. Still an insane streak of 8-9 years and was 30-1 after the Arlovski fight
Thorin, you are an amazing content creator. People don’t realize how hard it must be to speak alone for 2 hours straight, the knowledge must be really deep to do that. Props to you!
Preamble: I’m fucking hyped to watch two hours of Thorin talk about MMA. Does he have a love for Nate/Nick Diaz? He sometimes mentions MMA topics/styles but I don’t ever remember a full video on it. FUCKIN HYPED
Public discussion tends to be so superficial, revisionist, and devoid of context when it comes to MMA fighters. Was really cool to see you comb through records and factor in both the opponents, the results, but also the details of the fight. Hearing you talk about the community's dismissal of Usman definitely struck a cord. So many fighters get that treatment with narrow losses. Chandler, Hooker, and Burns are all modern examples where public perception is so tainted by them losing that if you never watched their fights, you'd think they're all garbage. Ridiculous.
Nice to hear your thoughts on this subject. Would be interesting to hear you talk about some potential future GOATs of this sport. Obviously right now there are plenty of interesting fighters with huge potential, Chimaev, Pereira, Prochazka, Makhachev, Volkanovski, to name a few. Perhaps even Adesanya or Usman will turn things around and go on a streak to also be contenders of this status.
But also consider the competition is higher level over there than in US or EU. His bad opponents might have been good in the west. Like comparing NA/EU Chall vs Korea master, Korea master is almost same level
@@TristanSune dawg, some of those guys were debuting against Khabib when he already had 10 fights. No shot you're making that argument, especially when KSW is the premiere EU org and has much better fighters overall.
Usman loss to Chimaev, as Volkonovski to Machachev second time does not count since, Usman and Volkonovski basically stood up of their coaches week before a fight and and went to Abu Dhabi.
The Conor McGregor video is still one of the best videos on this channel and way better than anything all those MMA bums can come up with. Another great MMA video this time. I just hope you guys make LFN MMA show as soon as possible.
Great video! I think you did a good job of going through the main contenders and being fair about the pros and cons of each. I still think GSP on paper is the goat, but skill for skill, I've had Mighty Mouse at my number one for a while. The only modern fighter that has come close to him for me was Volkanovski, but he still more to do as I think he's right there with Aldo at the 145 pound division.
The problem with saying that Mighty Mouse beat a bunch of nobody is that the reason flyweights didn't have any big names was that it was the first time any major organisations had that weight class prior meaning that the fighters at best were undersized bantamweight. This however doesn't mean they weren't any good, especially compared to other GOAT candidate resume, as they still came into MMA in an era where the meta had evolved a lot compared to what it was in the early 2000. For exemple, Carlos Condit is generally seen as one of GSP best win, but nobody with such attrocious take down defence would make it in the welterweight top 5 today, which we saw with how he went on a 5 fights losing streak while still well into his physical prime. So while Condit is a much bigger name than lets say Dobson, he probably is a worst win overall.
ur wrong about Gaethje vs Khabib. He looked "gun shy" wtf fight did u watch. Gaethje was throwing absolute bombs. They didn't even start exchanging till a minute into the round (and khabib had him down with 40 sec left) and he threw 36 significant strikes. He landed some very big shots that would KO most lightweights. It's not just he dominated everybody, he never showed that he was capable of being hurt. He was never wobbled or dropped and brushed off damage from world class strikers like it meant nothing.
Refreshing take. I only know of a few big names in UFC but enjoy break downs like this. It's so boring that every conversation I've heard ends up with some version of "Khabib never lost so" amongst plebs like me.
Some notes: You say Conor did well against Khabib, despite him cheating more times in that fight than maybe anyone ever. Strange oversight considering your distaste for in ring cheating. Also, I would have mentioned that Khabib had a lot of trouble with Tibau. Also, I dont like that his wins are diminished because of decisions. Not finishing was part of his style and while it's less exciting, it's no worse in terms of winning an MMA fight. The system of fighting Khabib's dad developed was low energy output pressure grappling. The whole point was to edge out rounds on the score cards while making the opponent spend more energy than them. What Khabib did was masterful if all you care about is winning. Hes not even in my top 10 all time btw im not a fanboy. I just dont like this idea of evaluating GOAT status based on finishes, because the MMA ruleset does not ask for finishes.
Alexander definitely won the first fight against Jon, eye test and stats says so but judges let him off. KO in the second fight sort of settles it though, so fair enough.
I would love if you had putter some examples when UFC were not matching certain fighers on purpose like you mentioned in beginning of the video, because I honestly feel quite opposite, they never shy away to feed a goat to the shark. Brock Lesnar came to try UFC, how would you like a Frank Mir? Oh I see you did good there? How about Overeem? Yoel Romeiro lost decision to Paulo Costa, but Yoel Romeiro was such a bad match up on paper to Isreal they gave him a title shot. We all been waiting for Ben Askren in UFC. So he was welcomed in ufc by Robbie Lawler, Damian Maia and Jorge Masvidal. Eddie Alvarez was really bad match up on paper to Conor Macgregor at the time that win over Eddie Alvarez made Conor legit as fuk.
I've always been a Jon Jones guy, and I completely understand if people want to take a hard stance on the steroid stuff, but the thing I think that set him apart more than anything was his Fight IQ, and no drug helps with that.
Jon Jones is NOT even in the conversation for GOAT. He is biggest multiple Time drug cheat in UFC history. Cheaters are not worthy of GOAT status. Only Clean fighters are. GSP is the GOAT of MMA. End of story.
I worry for Volk. He's at the point in his career where it can easily start going downhill like many other champs. At least he still has the featherweight belt. I don't see anyone in that division taking it from him, but if Ilia some how pulls off the upset I think that will be the beginning of the end for Volk. It has happened to so many champs in the past, once they get a loss or two it's all over (Aldo, Usman, Izzy, Ferguson just to same some of them). I think Volk right now could do well in lightweight aside from Islam. Everyone else is in the process of becoming washed in the top 5. Have to wait and see how Gaethje goes, but I think Volk would beat Gaethje and possibly Charles too.
I agree Khabib can never be the GOAT simply because he quit too early. I do however wholeheartedly believe Khabib is the best MMA fighter of all time. His dominance over his peers in the most competitive weight-class is unparalleled. He never bled and lost only 2 rounds in UFC in the scorecards, and those were both close rounds. Jon Jones lost a fight (disputed but also has a win that's more disputed), fights dirty and got caught for illegal substances multiple times. He is the GOAT for his achievements, but not the best. My GOAT list: 1. Bones 2. Khabib 3. GSP 4. Silva 5. Fedor I believe Islam Makhachev is destined to be at the top of the GOAT conversation. I feel strongly about Shavkat Rakhmonov too, but he's not getting opportunities. My darkhorses for a chance at GOAT status are; Khamzat Chimaev & Tom Aspinall. Alex Pereira has the talent but likely too old to put up enough fights. I'm confident had Pereira started his UFC career earlier, he'd be the middleweight GOAT.
Thorin my man - you are missing Francis Ngannou from this list. His resume and how he has finished the fights are unreal. I believe Jon Jones is the GOAT like there is no question. But he ducked Francis and only delusional fans thinks Francis would NOT kill him. Cause Jones is actually really hittable and you can't be hit by even one shot by Francis. And if you look at how he manhandles Stipe in the rematch and outwrestled him we KNOW Jones wouldn't be able to take him to the ground nor dominate him there.
Remember saying at the time that Khabib retired too early and wouldn't be considered the GOAT in 10 years time because he was just getting to the part where he either proves it or starts losing. Feels to me like Khabib and his father were very deliberate in making Khabib look like the GOAT, but never went the extra step of going all out testing if Khabib is actually that great.
Drug cheats can't be GOATs, Jones is very overrated, his body type (height, unreal ape-index but slender) and general athleticism carried him through one of the weakest divisions in the "modern" UFC. He does have some awesome moments I'll give him that, like the standing RNC against machida, armbar on Belfort and head kick against Cormier although the last one is a no contest because of a failed drug test. All he does is throw straight shots, very little advanced techniques of any kind when it comes to stuff like footwork for example, his reaction speed is nothing spectacular, he has had the reach advantage against everyone he has ever fought by a pretty big / significant margin (12" I think he has on Cormier), which of course isn't his fault but it gives so much more time to react and therefore it's easier to cover up mistakes, better grappling, so on..not to mention the Jones special the five finger point at his opponent. Jones is basically a taller and heavier Tony Ferguson. Jones is overrated and a drug cheat and shouldn't be anywhere near a GOAT discussion because of his four failures, people who put him there have low standards and a bad eye test. I hate how people and even the UFC just over look this because of the MMA media and Joe Rogan, when did cheating become okay?
Peak Anderson Silva is the best ever striker and my favourite fighter but Jones is just too well rounded and has absurd longevity. GSP and Khabib for me are disqualified on the basis of fighting style. It's a bit petty but you lose brownie points for me when you're shooting for double-legs all the time. Also GSP ducked Anderson for years at catch-weight yet was willing to fight Bisping years later at Middleweight and that's so wack to me.
The argument of him stopping because of his dad is off to me ,look at cotto he lost his uncle first at his peak and then his dad they were both his trainers and completely agree with ur view on him ,he literally was just hugging Conor the whole first round wack
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Thorin MMA content lfg. Can't wait to see how he applies his awesome mental models to combat sports.
Timestamps
In the debate, but not real contenders:
5:17 Jose Aldo
14:35 Dominick Cruz
21:10 Demetrious Johnson
26:05 BJ Penn
36:29 Daniel Cormier
45:17 Randy Couture
51:51 Kamaru Usman
58:02 Khabib Nurmagomedov
1:04:58 Israel Adesanya
1:10:35 Dan Henderson
1:16:21 Alexander Volkanovski
1:19:42 Henry Cejudo
The real G.O.A.T contenders!!:
1:23:12 Fedor Emelianenko
1:30:20 Anderson Silva
1:37:22 Georges St-Pierre
1:44:46 Jon Jones
TL;DR - Thorin's eye test and gut telling him Fedor is the GOAT, but his mind is telling him Jon Jones is the GOAT
Wtf is wrong with you guys? What's the point of getting a TLDR when all the content was in the explanation?
@@dirtydard4870 ?? the tldr is for people, who dont want to watch the whole video? wym whats the point
@@Nuurix what do you get out of that?
@@dirtydard4870 you are asking stupid questions... what do you get out of commenting here? what do you get out of watching any entertainment at all? not everything has a bigger purpose mate people do things for their own entertainment or satisfaction or to spend time or whatever... do you and stop caring what others do
42:18 Matt Hughes
Thorin finally talks at length about something I know a lot about. So far, very few moments that have left me screaming at my monitor. I think there is various gaps in your knowledge across the board that would slightly change your analysis if you considered them. However, this is literally my main thing, and just yet another sport for you. So yeah hats off. This is pretty much as good as casual historical analysis can get without getting into hardcore shit.
Thorin's side uploads just hit different
Watching you talk about almost any topic for two hours is such a gift. Thank you immensely for your content, it brings me a lot of joy.
Cool to see Thorin talking MMA
Thanks for this content have wondered your opinion on this forever!
If GSP finished even some of his later fights, he would be the uncontested goat imo. Hes still my goat but theres a debate.
Left this comment years ago but would love to see you talk to jack slack in some form of media.
+1
Few knocks against Jones you didnt mention; he was the bigger and longer guy in every fight except two, which were the ones he arguably lost. He then abused that range to the max by constantly splaying his fingers and making people scared of eye pokes. I don't like this idea of 'he was so good he didnt need to cheat.' I think his dominance is in no small part because of his cheating. He loses that fight to Cormier if he didnt poke him in the eye. I dont even think thats controversial. He just cheated and ruined the whole fight and people put it down as a great win. And this isn't even accounting for the fact that he should have had points deducted. If the refs actually did their job, there's a chance Jones doesn't even make it to this discussion because he just wouldnt have the resume.
Contrast that with mighty mouse, a dude who was the smaller guy in every fight and wasnt a known cheater. Idk. I think I take more stake in the asterisks on Jones' name than you do.
By longer do you mean height? If so why not say taller? Because longer means reach and he has never fought anyone with even remotely the same ape-index as himself, he does after all have one of the longest ever measured.
But I agree with you overall, I personally think Jones is unbelievably overrated and his body type and general athleticism carried him in one of the weakest divisions in the "modern" UFC.
@@QenaitheCustodianGuard Yes, by longer I was referring to his reach. He also tends to be taller but I think thats less important. I was saying he has a longer reach than everyone and it gave him a significant advantage that he abused to the maximum degree.
Generally when I consider my goat options, I favour fighters that did not possess innate physical advantages over most of their opponents. Especially not ones that used that physical advantage to cheat, like Jones did with his eye pokes. His constantly splayed fingers at the end of his long reach was a fundamental part of his game, and its against the rules. It also actually lead to fight ruining eye pokes.
I was disappointed that Thorin didnt really discuss this much. Jones is great but the eye test just doesnt pass for me because of this. Also, yeah, as you say, its fucking light heavyweight lol.
@@smackheadsgyro yes, I agree and have made the same comments myself if you look at the main comment page.
I just wanted clarification, thanks!
Mighty mouse also transferred into an arguably more competitive ONE championship weight class, and has continued to dominate and perform even in muay Thai too, his resume is arguably better too.
Why are you holding his body type against him lol
Wow great list thorin! I am a huge mma fan and honestly didn’t expect you to be this knowledgeable about mma, but seeing fedor on the top and aldo mentioned warms my heart. More content please!
Having watched through the 2000's I find it easy:
GSP - is the greatest champions - he was consistent and fought the best and defended again and again, came back from early losses to develop a fool proof style.
Also very underrated mental game
JJ - is just the most dangerous fighter period, no one more creative, no one more cruel, and no one more self sabotaging , hate the guy, but you gotta hand it to him
My top contenders:
1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Demetrious Johnson
3. Georges St-Pierre
4. Jon Jones
5. Anderson Silva
Great to see some MMA content on here!
DJ - King of midgets
Who cares tbh. He'd lose to many avg sized men without experience.
This is great, thanks Thorin
I really enjoyed this, cool to see my favorite eSports figure also loves MMA too, your top 4 are in my top 5 also. Good shit
does Thorin do something like Fight Companion? i might start watching UFC again if i could listen to him talk about it live.
BLESS you for making this episode!! You a real one Thorin
Thorin and MMA is a crossover I appreciate and never expected
For Fedor, the no contest (the number in parentheses) is not included in the number of losses. So Fedor actually had 1 loss early in his career. Still an insane streak of 8-9 years and was 30-1 after the Arlovski fight
Cheers to a new year Thorin. I hope you take good care of yourself. Gotta keep the fun and interesting content coming.
Thorin, you are an amazing content creator. People don’t realize how hard it must be to speak alone for 2 hours straight, the knowledge must be really deep to do that. Props to you!
Love the mma content
1:50:51 Nadal catching strays 🤣
Wow! Thorin just became Aces in my book. Did not know he was also a MMA buff! We have more things in common than I thought :D
Fantastic video, your points about the Khabib nephews are why you are the goat
Preamble: I’m fucking hyped to watch two hours of Thorin talk about MMA. Does he have a love for Nate/Nick Diaz? He sometimes mentions MMA topics/styles but I don’t ever remember a full video on it. FUCKIN HYPED
Public discussion tends to be so superficial, revisionist, and devoid of context when it comes to MMA fighters. Was really cool to see you comb through records and factor in both the opponents, the results, but also the details of the fight.
Hearing you talk about the community's dismissal of Usman definitely struck a cord. So many fighters get that treatment with narrow losses. Chandler, Hooker, and Burns are all modern examples where public perception is so tainted by them losing that if you never watched their fights, you'd think they're all garbage. Ridiculous.
Nice to hear your thoughts on this subject. Would be interesting to hear you talk about some potential future GOATs of this sport.
Obviously right now there are plenty of interesting fighters with huge potential, Chimaev, Pereira, Prochazka, Makhachev, Volkanovski, to name a few.
Perhaps even Adesanya or Usman will turn things around and go on a streak to also be contenders of this status.
Ok as a hardcore fighting fan over 20 years and a fighting practitioner and competitor, let's see if Thorin knows his shit on this field too.
Im just a UFC casual. What is your opinion on his opinion
same here, a lot of these opinions come off as really wack to me, but interesting angles nonetheless
nice vid. I only knew u from cs.didnt know you are this big of a fan of MMA. very cool
more mma content pls ❤
In regards to Khabibs record pre UFC, it gets even worse when looking at the actual records of his opponents!
But also consider the competition is higher level over there than in US or EU. His bad opponents might have been good in the west.
Like comparing NA/EU Chall vs Korea master, Korea master is almost same level
@@TristanSune dawg, some of those guys were debuting against Khabib when he already had 10 fights. No shot you're making that argument, especially when KSW is the premiere EU org and has much better fighters overall.
Please do a video of your top MMA fights of all time
Great video
Fedor my goat pick
Special place for jose aldo for introducing me to my favorite technique: the Liver punch low kick combo
Usman loss to Chimaev, as Volkonovski to Machachev second time does not count since, Usman and Volkonovski basically stood up of their coaches week before a fight and and went to Abu Dhabi.
🤣🤣 true also conor diodnt quite like a beaten ho and khabib didn't spat on his empty head 🤣 khabib messed up to many people mental health
As a former Amateur boxer I would to see your opinion on the boxing goats? Maybe even a top 5 ! Great video as always !
love the MMA content, keep it coming
Chael not getting his flowers once again 😔my goat
only us two think of the undefeated undisputed bad guy 😔
man with gsp if it wasnt for the ulcer im always going wonder what would happened if he kept going.
fire vid
Loving the MMA content
When the esports historian makes an MMA piece that is more interesting and well thought out than most of the content creators who just focus on MMA
Give it 5 years, our boy from Manchester, Tom will be on the list.
The Conor McGregor video is still one of the best videos on this channel and way better than anything all those MMA bums can come up with. Another great MMA video this time. I just hope you guys make LFN MMA show as soon as possible.
Crazy that Randy Couture won and defended the heavyweight belt at 44 years old
Great video! I think you did a good job of going through the main contenders and being fair about the pros and cons of each. I still think GSP on paper is the goat, but skill for skill, I've had Mighty Mouse at my number one for a while. The only modern fighter that has come close to him for me was Volkanovski, but he still more to do as I think he's right there with Aldo at the 145 pound division.
Duncan "Thorin" Shields the MMA historian
The problem with saying that Mighty Mouse beat a bunch of nobody is that the reason flyweights didn't have any big names was that it was the first time any major organisations had that weight class prior meaning that the fighters at best were undersized bantamweight.
This however doesn't mean they weren't any good, especially compared to other GOAT candidate resume, as they still came into MMA in an era where the meta had evolved a lot compared to what it was in the early 2000.
For exemple, Carlos Condit is generally seen as one of GSP best win, but nobody with such attrocious take down defence would make it in the welterweight top 5 today, which we saw with how he went on a 5 fights losing streak while still well into his physical prime.
So while Condit is a much bigger name than lets say Dobson, he probably is a worst win overall.
ur wrong about Gaethje vs Khabib. He looked "gun shy" wtf fight did u watch. Gaethje was throwing absolute bombs. They didn't even start exchanging till a minute into the round (and khabib had him down with 40 sec left) and he threw 36 significant strikes. He landed some very big shots that would KO most lightweights. It's not just he dominated everybody, he never showed that he was capable of being hurt. He was never wobbled or dropped and brushed off damage from world class strikers like it meant nothing.
Refreshing take. I only know of a few big names in UFC but enjoy break downs like this. It's so boring that every conversation I've heard ends up with some version of "Khabib never lost so" amongst plebs like me.
Fedor, Fedor, Fedor.
I'm a big Khabib fan, but in no way is he the GOAT. Not even close.
Is there a Part 2 where you discuss McGregor as the standalone GOAT? Don't see him on your list here which is strange.
Some notes: You say Conor did well against Khabib, despite him cheating more times in that fight than maybe anyone ever. Strange oversight considering your distaste for in ring cheating. Also, I would have mentioned that Khabib had a lot of trouble with Tibau. Also, I dont like that his wins are diminished because of decisions. Not finishing was part of his style and while it's less exciting, it's no worse in terms of winning an MMA fight. The system of fighting Khabib's dad developed was low energy output pressure grappling. The whole point was to edge out rounds on the score cards while making the opponent spend more energy than them. What Khabib did was masterful if all you care about is winning. Hes not even in my top 10 all time btw im not a fanboy. I just dont like this idea of evaluating GOAT status based on finishes, because the MMA ruleset does not ask for finishes.
i agree aswell, it's simply Khabib's style however I do believe he didnt fight many big competition like the rest.
@@JrKdM yeah that part is very true i agree
If you're not exciting, who cares?
@@CatnamedMittensthorin in this video multiple times mentioned that he doesn't like cheating inside the octagon
@@MyRevoltec I'm not talking about cheating
My GOAT: GSP
My GOAT(with a BIG asterisk being that we ignore drugs): Jon Jones
Edit: Your Khabib breakdown is A1. Good stuff
Alexander definitely won the first fight against Jon, eye test and stats says so but judges let him off. KO in the second fight sort of settles it though, so fair enough.
thanks
volk holloway 2 could have gone either way
I would love if you had putter some examples when UFC were not matching certain fighers on purpose like you mentioned in beginning of the video, because I honestly feel quite opposite, they never shy away to feed a goat to the shark. Brock Lesnar came to try UFC, how would you like a Frank Mir? Oh I see you did good there? How about Overeem? Yoel Romeiro lost decision to Paulo Costa, but Yoel Romeiro was such a bad match up on paper to Isreal they gave him a title shot. We all been waiting for Ben Askren in UFC. So he was welcomed in ufc by Robbie Lawler, Damian Maia and Jorge Masvidal. Eddie Alvarez was really bad match up on paper to Conor Macgregor at the time that win over Eddie Alvarez made Conor legit as fuk.
I've always been a Jon Jones guy, and I completely understand if people want to take a hard stance on the steroid stuff, but the thing I think that set him apart more than anything was his Fight IQ, and no drug helps with that.
Jon Jones is NOT even in the conversation for GOAT. He is biggest multiple Time drug cheat in UFC history. Cheaters are not worthy of GOAT status. Only Clean fighters are. GSP is the GOAT of MMA. End of story.
Lesnar would surely be here if he began in 2000
I worry for Volk. He's at the point in his career where it can easily start going downhill like many other champs. At least he still has the featherweight belt. I don't see anyone in that division taking it from him, but if Ilia some how pulls off the upset I think that will be the beginning of the end for Volk. It has happened to so many champs in the past, once they get a loss or two it's all over (Aldo, Usman, Izzy, Ferguson just to same some of them). I think Volk right now could do well in lightweight aside from Islam. Everyone else is in the process of becoming washed in the top 5. Have to wait and see how Gaethje goes, but I think Volk would beat Gaethje and possibly Charles too.
Might Mouse is the true goat. Maybe Jones. I'd give it to GSP but he only won a few of his fights because of blatantly poor judging.
I agree Khabib can never be the GOAT simply because he quit too early. I do however wholeheartedly believe Khabib is the best MMA fighter of all time.
His dominance over his peers in the most competitive weight-class is unparalleled. He never bled and lost only 2 rounds in UFC in the scorecards, and those were both close rounds.
Jon Jones lost a fight (disputed but also has a win that's more disputed), fights dirty and got caught for illegal substances multiple times. He is the GOAT for his achievements, but not the best.
My GOAT list:
1. Bones
2. Khabib
3. GSP
4. Silva
5. Fedor
I believe Islam Makhachev is destined to be at the top of the GOAT conversation. I feel strongly about Shavkat Rakhmonov too, but he's not getting opportunities.
My darkhorses for a chance at GOAT status are; Khamzat Chimaev & Tom Aspinall. Alex Pereira has the talent but likely too old to put up enough fights.
I'm confident had Pereira started his UFC career earlier, he'd be the middleweight GOAT.
Thorin my man - you are missing Francis Ngannou from this list. His resume and how he has finished the fights are unreal. I believe Jon Jones is the GOAT like there is no question. But he ducked Francis and only delusional fans thinks Francis would NOT kill him. Cause Jones is actually really hittable and you can't be hit by even one shot by Francis. And if you look at how he manhandles Stipe in the rematch and outwrestled him we KNOW Jones wouldn't be able to take him to the ground nor dominate him there.
Remember saying at the time that Khabib retired too early and wouldn't be considered the GOAT in 10 years time because he was just getting to the part where he either proves it or starts losing. Feels to me like Khabib and his father were very deliberate in making Khabib look like the GOAT, but never went the extra step of going all out testing if Khabib is actually that great.
Drug cheats can't be GOATs, Jones is very overrated, his body type (height, unreal ape-index but slender) and general athleticism carried him through one of the weakest divisions in the "modern" UFC.
He does have some awesome moments I'll give him that, like the standing RNC against machida, armbar on Belfort and head kick against Cormier although the last one is a no contest because of a failed drug test.
All he does is throw straight shots, very little advanced techniques of any kind when it comes to stuff like footwork for example, his reaction speed is nothing spectacular, he has had the reach advantage against everyone he has ever fought by a pretty big / significant margin (12" I think he has on Cormier), which of course isn't his fault but it gives so much more time to react and therefore it's easier to cover up mistakes, better grappling, so on..not to mention the Jones special the five finger point at his opponent.
Jones is basically a taller and heavier Tony Ferguson.
Jones is overrated and a drug cheat and shouldn't be anywhere near a GOAT discussion because of his four failures, people who put him there have low standards and a bad eye test.
I hate how people and even the UFC just over look this because of the MMA media and Joe Rogan, when did cheating become okay?
Only Muslims will call him the GOAT.
Peak Anderson Silva is the best ever striker and my favourite fighter but Jones is just too well rounded and has absurd longevity.
GSP and Khabib for me are disqualified on the basis of fighting style. It's a bit petty but you lose brownie points for me when you're shooting for double-legs all the time. Also GSP ducked Anderson for years at catch-weight yet was willing to fight Bisping years later at Middleweight and that's so wack to me.
Yeah, those sports are called boxing or kickboxing.
As if comparing and preferring aram map to summoners rift in lol
This one's gonna be a banger!
(and yes the only correct answer is jon jones)
carried by doctors
PED abusers don't count sadly
Brock Lesnar
The argument of him stopping because of his dad is off to me ,look at cotto he lost his uncle first at his peak and then his dad they were both his trainers and completely agree with ur view on him ,he literally was just hugging Conor the whole first round wack
It’s obviously Jon Jones
No one watch the video! This guy has figured it out
Thorin talking as if he knew MMA. Stick to CS man
results are all that matter. This much has always been obvious in combat sports
Don't forget how Khabib ended Conor's career and messed withhis and his fans mental health, causing PTSD, like this old guy.🤣🤣🤣🤣 Copium