My dream car for a decade has been the MG B GT ....... but the more I learn about them the more I was afraid of a basket case. So... I just gave in and bought a 2015 Fiat Abarth... I'm sure I spent a lot less than restoring an old MG B GT ;)...
+Alvin Brinson Yeh, that is a great alternative. I really like the looks on the MGB GT, but the hot rodder in me wants to build something more like MG LE50. Which in your case your Abarth would definitely be cheaper.
MGB vehicles of that era were poor cars, it is hardly surprising your finding problems. In fact Heritage motors are making new bodies in the U.K., from what I have seen without much improvement in corrosion prevention.
I have a GT I’m rebuilding and I’m appalled that you took this job on without even understanding the basic terminology of what is a pretty basic structure. I can’t believe you’re finding rust AFTER you’ve attempted to straighten the external panels. Also why take it to a blaster who you don’t think does it to a high enough standard. Needs new floor pans, castle sections, sills at a minimum. THEN you can think about moaning. If you find 6 layers of tacked on metal then you know that’s a previous bodge, just cut them off and start again. That’s what angle grinders and cutting discs are for. All I’ve learned is not to bring a car to you. I pity the owner
British Motor Heritage manufacture new body shells from the original die's. British enthusiasts are rebuilding their B's using them. These things are steel, rusty and half a century old... with a Morris engine. Is it worth it?
It's almost never worth it. In this case The b could cost 100k for a good 100 point restorations to only be worth 10k when it's done.i belive sentimental value drives 90% of the restoration world.
I ‘fell’ down this long slippery slope myself, as a journeyman mechanic, I was doing my 14th or 15th British sportscar. I should have known better. No excuse. This was to be, my personal ride, and did everything except the body/paint myself. I found a body/paint man w/ good resume & recommendations. Gave him a mechanically stripped bare tub. As he was doing the striping/repair of panels, 1 & 2 at a time (mistake!), the more Well-hidden damage became evident. And the costs were going out of sight, especially for a lowly MGB. My choices were to, #1- continue on, hoping he wouldn’t gouge me tooo badly for the time (he was moving Sooooo Slow, how much time is Really needed to refinish a steel fender??), or to take the car elsewhere and start over, not a realistic option, so I stayed with the same man. I was not going to waste the time/$$$ I was spending and Not have a proper straight car, I was committed. Bodywork cost was more than quadruple original quote, and although sometimes hard to argue with (but not Always) but had to be done. It amazes me the lengths some of the past body shops had gone through to hide problems. Anyway, the car was completed in May 2013. The end result is a very nice, straight, correct MGB (even though my budget was Totally blown. My biggest recommendation would be that even though paint is typically the painters call, DO NOT go with lower end products. Example, DuPont makes many different lines, Do Not use the cheapest, you will get what you pay for). I now have an MGB that with normal maintenance will remain that way for Many decades. I’m finishing it’s 1st Major service & inspection since completion (based on time) and overall the car is holding up very well cosmetically, with NO corrosion issues & mechanically only a couple of very minor issues, but overall very Good. My Point Is, one Must be prepared to have funds/resources to deal with potential hidden concerns, otherwise time and money spent is a complete waste of time. Providing you don’t live in a salt mine, with today’s products, there is No excuse to have to deal with ongoing rust/corrosion issues on something stated as a “complete restoration”.
I have since closed the business. It was extremely difficult to operate a business when the customer has spent good money trying to maintain a car over the past couple decades, believes beyond the shadow of a doubt that the work has been done correctly by professional but...The car tells a very different story. We now live in a big box store, fast food, i want it now, my way society and most shops out there focus on working to the dollar amount the customer is willing to spend. Not addressing the problems the car has.... To properly restore an antique car one most look at what the customers desires are & what the cars needs are...and what it will take to get that car from point a to point b..... We lost a great deal of money on the MGB, and had a very displeased customer.... If I have to invest 1 year of my life restoring an antique for a customer. Working 40 hours per week = 160 man hours per month @ $50.00 per hour... It works out to $100,000. If a customer is not willing to invest a stupid amount of money into their project. Then I am not going to be doing the work...It was a bad experience and I learned my lesson.
David Hamlin Sorry to hear that man! Unfortunately that's the way it goes nowadays. It's so easy to underestimate the amount of time and money that goes into a proper restoration, most owners have no clue... I was enjoying your videos! Are you still working on cars?
Hey David, sorry to hear you closed your shop. I understand your reasons for sure. I bought a new Triumph GT6 in 1972 and still have it. Mechanically I never had any problems, got 100,000 miles out of my first clutch but I drove it easily, never beat on it. The body was a different story. I lived in New York, a road salt state, and within 2 years I had rust everywhere. I learned to do the repairs myself but eventually replaced most every panel. Everything in my garage is there to support the GT6. I just love the car, love the way it looks and since I love to work with my hands it has never been a burden! I know how much effort it is to keep my car on the road. Society has changed. As you said, people want it now, they want it cheap and they want it to last forever. From a business point of view, the value of the Leyland cars does not support their restoration costs. I guess you found that out. Jaguars and Porsches rust a lot but their values are through the roof. That might be a direction for you as I can tell you are a very passionate about your craft. Just my 2 cents!! Jerry
Back in the 1980s these were cheap second hand cars that people had 'fixed' up by a local guy with a mig welder on a $0 budget. To spend a whole video complaining about it is a waste of everyone's time.
+Jon A No kidding, wait till you see the 1968 Camaro we just took delivery of. I experience this kind of work on probably 8 out of 10 cars that come in our shop. I am going to go shot video of our findings on the Camaro right now. Thank you for your comments...Have a wonderful holiday season.
Regardless of what the customers say or think. We have had to start going over the vehicles with a fine tooth comb before we start any work because of the major problems we have been uncovering.
Getting a little ahead of your self worrying about getting the skins flat Before addressing structural issues first.also that's not a good courses of asction this business structure cost the customer way more then they ever intended to pay.this kinda stuff happens when shops are not familiar with a particular car and get upside down in a restoration.
I am a armature and I can see the terrible work they did in the past. Is it common for shops not to do plug wells and just tack on the sides? It's so easy to do a plug weld, I really don't understand why someone would do this.
+Rudi Fellner I would have to say that the person either did not care about the work they were doing or they do not know how to do sheet metal work / weld.
That's the way it was in them days? As a teenager ( cool man) I used loaves of bread as a filler before skimming a coat of filler over the top. We painted with a brush and topped up the engine with used oil from the local petrol station. No one had any money. If you owned an MG your girlfriend wasn't allowed in the car and her mother hated you! ,That's just THE WAY IT WAS,!! Stavros
That is what restoration is about. You find problems and fix it. You cut out the old repairs and make it original again. No point in complaining.
My dream car for a decade has been the MG B GT ....... but the more I learn about them the more I was afraid of a basket case.
So... I just gave in and bought a 2015 Fiat Abarth... I'm sure I spent a lot less than restoring an old MG B GT ;)...
+Alvin Brinson Yeh, that is a great alternative. I really like the looks on the MGB GT, but the hot rodder in me wants to build something more like MG LE50. Which in your case your Abarth would definitely be cheaper.
80 grit is much too course. It skates off the surface. I never go courser than 220.
MGB vehicles of that era were poor cars, it is hardly surprising your finding problems. In fact Heritage motors are making new bodies in the U.K., from what I have seen without much improvement in corrosion prevention.
I have a GT I’m rebuilding and I’m appalled that you took this job on without even understanding the basic terminology of what is a pretty basic structure. I can’t believe you’re finding rust AFTER you’ve attempted to straighten the external panels. Also why take it to a blaster who you don’t think does it to a high enough standard. Needs new floor pans, castle sections, sills at a minimum. THEN you can think about moaning. If you find 6 layers of tacked on metal then you know that’s a previous bodge, just cut them off and start again. That’s what angle grinders and cutting discs are for. All I’ve learned is not to bring a car to you. I pity the owner
British Motor Heritage manufacture new body shells from the original die's. British enthusiasts are rebuilding their B's using them. These things are steel, rusty and half a century old... with a Morris engine. Is it worth it?
It's almost never worth it. In this case The b could cost 100k for a good 100 point restorations to only be worth 10k when it's done.i belive sentimental value drives 90% of the restoration world.
I agree the previous work is not the best
I ‘fell’ down this long slippery slope myself, as a journeyman mechanic, I was doing my 14th or 15th British sportscar. I should have known better. No excuse. This was to be, my personal ride, and did everything except the body/paint myself. I found a body/paint man w/ good resume & recommendations. Gave him a mechanically stripped bare tub. As he was doing the striping/repair of panels, 1 & 2 at a time (mistake!), the more Well-hidden damage became evident. And the costs were going out of sight, especially for a lowly MGB. My choices were to, #1- continue on, hoping he wouldn’t gouge me tooo badly for the time (he was moving Sooooo Slow, how much time is Really needed to refinish a steel fender??), or to take the car elsewhere and start over, not a realistic option, so I stayed with the same man. I was not going to waste the time/$$$ I was spending and Not have a proper straight car, I was committed. Bodywork cost was more than quadruple original quote, and although sometimes hard to argue with (but not Always) but had to be done. It amazes me the lengths some of the past body shops had gone through to hide problems. Anyway, the car was completed in May 2013. The end result is a very nice, straight, correct MGB (even though my budget was Totally blown. My biggest recommendation would be that even though paint is typically the painters call, DO NOT go with lower end products. Example, DuPont makes many different lines, Do Not use the cheapest, you will get what you pay for). I now have an MGB that with normal maintenance will remain that way for Many decades. I’m finishing it’s 1st Major service & inspection since completion (based on time) and overall the car is holding up very well cosmetically, with NO corrosion issues & mechanically only a couple of very minor issues, but overall very Good. My Point Is, one Must be prepared to have funds/resources to deal with potential hidden concerns, otherwise time and money spent is a complete waste of time. Providing you don’t live in a salt mine, with today’s products, there is No excuse to have to deal with ongoing rust/corrosion issues on something stated as a “complete restoration”.
I have since closed the business. It was extremely difficult to operate a business when the customer has spent good money trying to maintain a car over the past couple decades, believes beyond the shadow of a doubt that the work has been done correctly by professional but...The car tells a very different story. We now live in a big box store, fast food, i want it now, my way society and most shops out there focus on working to the dollar amount the customer is willing to spend. Not addressing the problems the car has.... To properly restore an antique car one most look at what the customers desires are & what the cars needs are...and what it will take to get that car from point a to point b..... We lost a great deal of money on the MGB, and had a very displeased customer.... If I have to invest 1 year of my life restoring an antique for a customer. Working 40 hours per week = 160 man hours per month @ $50.00 per hour... It works out to $100,000. If a customer is not willing to invest a stupid amount of money into their project. Then I am not going to be doing the work...It was a bad experience and I learned my lesson.
David Hamlin Sorry to hear that man! Unfortunately that's the way it goes nowadays. It's so easy to underestimate the amount of time and money that goes into a proper restoration, most owners have no clue... I was enjoying your videos! Are you still working on cars?
Hey David, sorry to hear you closed your shop. I understand your reasons for sure. I bought a new Triumph GT6 in 1972 and still have it. Mechanically I never had any problems, got 100,000 miles out of my first clutch but I drove it easily, never beat on it. The body was a different story. I lived in New York, a road salt state, and within 2 years I had rust everywhere. I learned to do the repairs myself but eventually replaced most every panel. Everything in my garage is there to support the GT6. I just love the car, love the way it looks and since I love to work with my hands it has never been a burden! I know how much effort it is to keep my car on the road. Society has changed. As you said, people want it now, they want it cheap and they want it to last forever.
From a business point of view, the value of the Leyland cars does not support their restoration costs. I guess you found that out. Jaguars and Porsches rust a lot but their values are through the roof. That might be a direction for you as I can tell you are a very passionate about your craft. Just my 2 cents!! Jerry
You have never rebuilt a bad MGB because you would not complain about this one.
Back in the 1980s these were cheap second hand cars that people had 'fixed' up by a local guy with a mig welder on a $0 budget. To spend a whole video complaining about it is a waste of everyone's time.
some of that work looks like a shade tree hack job
+Jon A No kidding, wait till you see the 1968 Camaro we just took delivery of. I experience this kind of work on probably 8 out of 10 cars that come in our shop. I am going to go shot video of our findings on the Camaro right now. Thank you for your comments...Have a wonderful holiday season.
I am a shade tree mechanic, and I would not do this type of work. Drives me crazy when people have no pride in there work.
+Rudi Fellner same here use to own sandblasting business and did body work on the side in the late 70's
Regardless of what the customers say or think. We have had to start going over the vehicles with a fine tooth comb before we start any work because of the major problems we have been uncovering.
Getting a little ahead of your self worrying about getting the skins flat Before addressing structural issues first.also that's not a good courses of asction this business structure cost the customer way more then they ever intended to pay.this kinda stuff happens when shops are not familiar with a particular car and get upside down in a restoration.
I am a armature and I can see the terrible work they did in the past. Is it common for shops not to do plug wells and just tack on the sides? It's so easy to do a plug weld, I really don't understand why someone would do this.
+Rudi Fellner I would have to say that the person either did not care about the work they were doing or they do not know how to do sheet metal work / weld.
You can purchase a whole new body ,,,painted or unpainted,,,,,British motor heritage ,,,,in the U.K.
Sorry just order a new body from mg heritage tgeybard not that expensive
you sure do complain alot
YUP!!!! With good reason.
after seeing you video David im with you thats a real poor repair some people don't know how dangerous the mbg shells are if not rebuilt properly
In Video show the car restoration not to show yourself in whole video. thanks
You get what you pay for…. In this case very poor quality work. Good luck.
That's the way it was in them days? As a teenager ( cool man) I used loaves of bread as a filler before skimming a coat of filler over the top. We painted with a brush and topped up the engine with used oil from the local petrol station. No one had any money. If you owned an MG your girlfriend wasn't allowed in the car and her mother hated you! ,That's just THE WAY IT WAS,!!
Stavros