So, Calvin, what will you do about continuing to produce the products you had on Shapeways? Will you be looking for another producer? I really hope so, because I think you had some really great O narrow items there, which were both well designed and reasonably priced. I never understood the pricing structure at Shapeways as I would see two practically identical items , with one priced $40-50 more than the other. Frankly I thought some of the prices there were outrageous for what people were actually getting for their money. Anyway, I have an extensive list of your products that I will be needing in the coming months and I sincerely wish you the best of luck in finding another manufacturer!!!
That's an awesome question and while I will dedicate a video directly to what are my plans moving forward. I do have some ideas in mind, don't worry there. I can say the pricing thing was a bit of a mess but I believe it was based on both the volume of the prints AND the volume of the print inside the machine too. You can only fit so much into the build volume per run, and you need to price accordingly. When I did my models I tried to hollow them out whenever possible since you can put weights inside, and no point in paying extra for material that does not need to be there. It helped, but it can only do so much.
Seriously, from the video? It's been all over the 3D printing for model train groups I am on as many of us in that community used them over the years to host/print our items.
@@MakeItWithCalvin I guess the fact that I didn’t know does kind of point to the flaws in their business model. I got what I wanted early on and have only been back a couple times since then.
Honestly that's crazy, but it makes sense too if you were outside the loop you would not know. That was the case for me too, they were the only source of commercial-grade 3D printing I knew of and eventually I moved to Sculpteo since they had way better pricing until they got bought out by BASF and switched to being more commercially focused.
Honestly it's because of a horribly scaled train model I did in Google Sketchup and Shapeways that I even got into 3D printing and model trains in the first place. For someone who needed a handful of prints done, or things done in materials other than the usual FDM/resin, it was a lifesaver. I know I am not the only one who relied on them directly, or indirectly, too.
I-Materialise out of Belgium is another online 3D printing house that you can use. I used them over 10yrs ago, before Shapeways. They offer many of the same materials as Shapeways did. I haven't ordered anything from them in years, but they always gave fast and efficient service. I've also heard that the European division of Shapeways is being bought and renamed into something else. But I'm not sure that info is current or accurate. Even though I have three DLP/resin printers of my own, I still used Shapeways for certain items right up until the end. Like you, I do model trains and design/build a lot of my own gearboxes and mechanisms. Shapeways clear detail plastic (the old FUD and FXD) was excellent for this purpose. The process allowed for reasonably accurate parts, and the benefit of being a plastic like material was ideal for mechanisms and gearboxes, which would eliminate any chance of electrical shorts. Combined with some machining and laser cut metal parts, a very good locomotive mechanism could be made using the Shapeways part as a base.
That's good to know about I-Materialize. As for the Euro division of Shapeways, I am curious to see what becomes of that and if the shipping on prints will make it cost-ineffective or not to order prints here in the states. You do have a good point on combining manufacturing methods to produce models. That's one of the more fun sides of the hobby if you are mechanically inclined, is the ability to produce items that are otherwise unavailable is a huge accomplishment.
Interesting content and thoughts. In many respects you touched on the reasons why I never went forward and got a printer. It simply wouldn't have even begun to pay for itself. And now that you explained in simple terms why Shapeways went under, I now feel bad that I had you do a few special orders for me as now I realize the effort put in to preparing a computer program to do 10 pieces that, theoretically you'll never have to make again... You learn new things every day!!!
Honestly, that's why I still have my sub $500 laser cutter. Eventually I will get a more capable machine but until I come to that point, I will keep cranking out parts with what I have since it's already paid itself off many times over. There is a time and a place for upgrading stuff if there is a guaranteed job there that NEEDS that equipment and it makes financial sense. Otherwise, it is a massive gamble that can very easily backfire on you. As for the prints I did for you, I still have the files so it' no big deal. I just either print them myself, or have another company like Xometry do it for me.
I lost all my money and models. Doesn't surprise me. I hadn't paid much attention in the last few months and got the email today about the company reforming.
There are two reasons Shapeways went under. 1. Their pricing was unsustainably low. How they stayed afloat so long is a mystery. 2. The print on demand (JIT) marketplace Calvin is talking about was also underpriced. The handling, machine time, incidental costs of Just in Time manufacturing plus the insane mix is super challenging to do and costs need to be carefully controlled or the business becomes insolvent. I used Shapeways for many years and appreciated their quality, cost and speed. I even had parts waiting to print when they went under. I think they thought they could command markete share and prevent competition by keeping their costs low. Unfortunately, this created an artificial landscape the we will not see again at such low cost. You can have a combination of Cheap, Good and Fast...pick two.
You raised some really good points, especially when it came to just in time manufacturing, you have to juggle competitive costs with reasonable lead times and quality parts. I do wonder what plan of recourse, if any, those who have outstanding prints/payouts from the company have?
What print method were you using? I remember I did an order on Oct 4 of last year with MJF & PolyJet parts and it shipped on Oct 13, I can't access what print method I used, but odds are I just used the standard print method...
The way it worked on Shapeways was everything was made "to order." I could run a batch of parts through a company like Xometry, or do it myself, but then I am stuck sitting on a huge inventory of stuff that may or may not sell.
Same. My issue is where do I put one, how do I get the material, disposal... You get the idea! This not someone with a few Elgoo Mars printers in their garage.
@@MakeItWithCalvin All good points. Disposal? You mean what do you do with the plastic waste? I could easily find a solution to where to put the machine. And I think disposal would be a solvable problem. But where to find the material is a head scratcher.
@@gishgishgish As I understand part of the cost of owning these machines is having a tech come out to service them which is all well and good till you get a $5,000 bill for someone to poke around for half an hr!
That's true, but for some of us we need things done in materials/methods that you can't do at home. I for one use SLS printing quite a bit for my model trains.
You design for niche that is not feasible and more costly to do in other ways. You also do it in conjunction with other disciplines. Not just 3d print a piece of plastic. There's other points, but 3d printing definitely has a role and place.
what happens when cost-sell=profit is ignored - bad nbusiness model same as voodoo something or another in brooklyn - its a hobby still powered by people that want "cheap" -
Yes, that is a fair point. I am fine paying a premium, to a point, for commercially printed parts. Where it becomes an issue is when you have a cool kit you want to offer and you need to charge $250 to turn a profit... As for cheap in the 3D printing world, that's going to be a spicy topic for another time...
So, Calvin, what will you do about continuing to produce the products you had on Shapeways? Will you be looking for another producer? I really hope so, because I think you had some really great O narrow items there, which were both well designed and reasonably priced. I never understood the pricing structure at Shapeways as I would see two practically identical items , with one priced $40-50 more than the other. Frankly I thought some of the prices there were outrageous for what people were actually getting for their money. Anyway, I have an extensive list of your products that I will be needing in the coming months and I sincerely wish you the best of luck in finding another manufacturer!!!
That's an awesome question and while I will dedicate a video directly to what are my plans moving forward. I do have some ideas in mind, don't worry there.
I can say the pricing thing was a bit of a mess but I believe it was based on both the volume of the prints AND the volume of the print inside the machine too. You can only fit so much into the build volume per run, and you need to price accordingly. When I did my models I tried to hollow them out whenever possible since you can put weights inside, and no point in paying extra for material that does not need to be there. It helped, but it can only do so much.
This is how I learned that Shapeways went under
Seriously, from the video? It's been all over the 3D printing for model train groups I am on as many of us in that community used them over the years to host/print our items.
@@MakeItWithCalvin I guess the fact that I didn’t know does kind of point to the flaws in their business model. I got what I wanted early on and have only been back a couple times since then.
Honestly that's crazy, but it makes sense too if you were outside the loop you would not know. That was the case for me too, they were the only source of commercial-grade 3D printing I knew of and eventually I moved to Sculpteo since they had way better pricing until they got bought out by BASF and switched to being more commercially focused.
Thanks for the update Calvin. I only ordered once from Shapeways in 2013. It was a few years later before starting my own 3D journey. Cheers, JAYTEE
Honestly it's because of a horribly scaled train model I did in Google Sketchup and Shapeways that I even got into 3D printing and model trains in the first place. For someone who needed a handful of prints done, or things done in materials other than the usual FDM/resin, it was a lifesaver. I know I am not the only one who relied on them directly, or indirectly, too.
I-Materialise out of Belgium is another online 3D printing house that you can use. I used them over 10yrs ago, before Shapeways. They offer many of the same materials as Shapeways did. I haven't ordered anything from them in years, but they always gave fast and efficient service.
I've also heard that the European division of Shapeways is being bought and renamed into something else. But I'm not sure that info is current or accurate.
Even though I have three DLP/resin printers of my own, I still used Shapeways for certain items right up until the end. Like you, I do model trains and design/build a lot of my own gearboxes and mechanisms. Shapeways clear detail plastic (the old FUD and FXD) was excellent for this purpose. The process allowed for reasonably accurate parts, and the benefit of being a plastic like material was ideal for mechanisms and gearboxes, which would eliminate any chance of electrical shorts. Combined with some machining and laser cut metal parts, a very good locomotive mechanism could be made using the Shapeways part as a base.
That's good to know about I-Materialize. As for the Euro division of Shapeways, I am curious to see what becomes of that and if the shipping on prints will make it cost-ineffective or not to order prints here in the states.
You do have a good point on combining manufacturing methods to produce models. That's one of the more fun sides of the hobby if you are mechanically inclined, is the ability to produce items that are otherwise unavailable is a huge accomplishment.
Interesting content and thoughts. In many respects you touched on the reasons why I never went forward and got a printer. It simply wouldn't have even begun to pay for itself. And now that you explained in simple terms why Shapeways went under, I now feel bad that I had you do a few special orders for me as now I realize the effort put in to preparing a computer program to do 10 pieces that, theoretically you'll never have to make again... You learn new things every day!!!
Honestly, that's why I still have my sub $500 laser cutter. Eventually I will get a more capable machine but until I come to that point, I will keep cranking out parts with what I have since it's already paid itself off many times over. There is a time and a place for upgrading stuff if there is a guaranteed job there that NEEDS that equipment and it makes financial sense. Otherwise, it is a massive gamble that can very easily backfire on you.
As for the prints I did for you, I still have the files so it' no big deal. I just either print them myself, or have another company like Xometry do it for me.
Ramblings with Calvin would be a good name for a series. 👍
Hmmm... Is a thought, I may do it for topics that I feel are worth covering. If you have any suggestions, drop them below.
I lost all my money and models. Doesn't surprise me. I hadn't paid much attention in the last few months and got the email today about the company reforming.
Curious how you lost money, uncompleted orders? I am curious to see what happens with them "reforming"
I'm just here to chase the moths around the room!!
There are two reasons Shapeways went under. 1. Their pricing was unsustainably low. How they stayed afloat so long is a mystery. 2. The print on demand (JIT) marketplace Calvin is talking about was also underpriced. The handling, machine time, incidental costs of Just in Time manufacturing plus the insane mix is super challenging to do and costs need to be carefully controlled or the business becomes insolvent. I used Shapeways for many years and appreciated their quality, cost and speed. I even had parts waiting to print when they went under. I think they thought they could command markete share and prevent competition by keeping their costs low. Unfortunately, this created an artificial landscape the we will not see again at such low cost. You can have a combination of Cheap, Good and Fast...pick two.
You raised some really good points, especially when it came to just in time manufacturing, you have to juggle competitive costs with reasonable lead times and quality parts. I do wonder what plan of recourse, if any, those who have outstanding prints/payouts from the company have?
The main thing about shapeways was just how downright cheap it was to print metal parts
Yes, albeit you had to wonder how much of a loss they were taking when you compare their prices to Sculpteo or Xometry!
Shapeways took way too long. Waiting a month to 6 weeks for the same items I've been having printed for nearly a decade never made any sense.
What print method were you using? I remember I did an order on Oct 4 of last year with MJF & PolyJet parts and it shipped on Oct 13, I can't access what print method I used, but odds are I just used the standard print method...
"A marketplace for items that needs to be commercially printed". Why doesn't Etsy and Amazon work?
The way it worked on Shapeways was everything was made "to order." I could run a batch of parts through a company like Xometry, or do it myself, but then I am stuck sitting on a huge inventory of stuff that may or may not sell.
What's happening to their printers? I want one.
In theory under the current bankruptcy plan they will be liquidated but anything beyond that is anyone's guess.
@@MakeItWithCalvin I wonder what printers they have and what are the specs? I want to the at that auction.
Same. My issue is where do I put one, how do I get the material, disposal... You get the idea! This not someone with a few Elgoo Mars printers in their garage.
@@MakeItWithCalvin All good points. Disposal? You mean what do you do with the plastic waste?
I could easily find a solution to where to put the machine. And I think disposal would be a solvable problem. But where to find the material is a head scratcher.
@@gishgishgish As I understand part of the cost of owning these machines is having a tech come out to service them which is all well and good till you get a $5,000 bill for someone to poke around for half an hr!
Most people dont want to pay for 3d prints. I don't see how a business like this would be sustainable.
That's true, but for some of us we need things done in materials/methods that you can't do at home. I for one use SLS printing quite a bit for my model trains.
You design for niche that is not feasible and more costly to do in other ways. You also do it in conjunction with other disciplines. Not just 3d print a piece of plastic. There's other points, but 3d printing definitely has a role and place.
what happens when cost-sell=profit is ignored - bad nbusiness model same as voodoo something or another in brooklyn - its a hobby still powered by people that want "cheap" -
Yes, that is a fair point. I am fine paying a premium, to a point, for commercially printed parts. Where it becomes an issue is when you have a cool kit you want to offer and you need to charge $250 to turn a profit...
As for cheap in the 3D printing world, that's going to be a spicy topic for another time...