The Best Safe Second - Scuba Tech Tips: S10E15
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.พ. 2020
- Since becoming adopted as part of the standard scuba setup in the early 1980's, safe second's have evolved in a way few newer divers appreciate. Alec explains the safe second's evolution and many improvements to safety.
Watch my "Alec Peirce at the Ranch" for ranch and home ideas. / @alecpeirceattheranch
**** Alec Peirce Scuba ****
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Hey Alec, IF you were to tell me what to do, I would listen. Flat out - Hands Down - you are a living legend!!! you have more knowledge about diving (and a million other things) in the piece of finger nail that you clipped off in 1974, than most of the yahoo's out there who hide behind their computer and make derogatory comment while criticizing others for no good reason. Keep up the great work! You and Kevin are the best!! Please keep telling us what to do!! WE (those who want to learn) are listening!
Wow, thanks very much for the feedback. Kevin and I do this (for free, no ads) to educate and entertain divers. Glad your picking up ideas, lots of interesting videos coming. We are on winter hiatus and release bi-weekly but return to weekly in April (ish) when the snows melt and we can get together.
I really appreciate your comments.
Alec
Having been a diver since about 1962, NAUI instructor in 1975, I've learned more from you Alec than perhaps even my first read thru of "The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving" or Mike Nelson's 33 1/3 record of how to dive (how I first learned to scuba). Your vids, logic, and reasoning are simply an invaluable resource and (you're gonna hate this) you are "my scuba diving Guru," like it or not. Not that I don't watch and learn from other folks videos, but IMHO, yours are the most trustworthy source of scuba diving info. I look forward to every video that you and Kevin do. Common words around my house are "Alec has a new video out!" And if I was still teaching, your vids would be required homework (and actually are for my grandkids that I assist now). Of course, the standard scuba class is a requirement, but your videos add so, so, so much more. Please keep up the good work! You guys are most appreciated.
Thanks Lloyd for the feedback and I'm glad even a 'stone age' diver like youself can learn or laugh along with me. Good to know many generations in your family are into diving. It's one of the few sports an entire family can do together.
Thanks for watching and lots more to come.
Alec
I love this guy he is so kind and comfortable to listen to
Thank you.
Some are useless?! I've never seen a tech tip that wasn't useful. Ok, maybe the hydrostatic test video wasn't very applicable but it's good information that's super interesting and knowledge is always useful. Keep making these videos, we love them!
Thanks James I will.
Alec, thank you for the wisdom and knowledge of diving you share with the diving community as a result of your extensive experience. I agree with your point regarding the purpose and intent behind these videos. You, at no point, specifically dictate what divers should, or should not, do, what equipment they should, or should not, use, or how they should behave. It seems that human nature unfortunately dictates that disagreements over practice and philosophy have to become grievances aired publicly. I admit that I'm not an overly experienced diver, but I've never heard you once recomend something that was dangerous or ill-informed and you always provide justification for why you recomend something. I have benefited greatly from your advice and replies to my comments and I am a better diver in consequence. Thank you.
Thanks Joshua for the kind words and for watching. Also note that I have never asked for money, Subscribes or Likes, just that I have educated and/or entertained you to become a better/safer diver.
Appreciate your feedback.
Alec.
Alec and Kevin. Thank you so very much for spending the time and putting out the effort for these videos. Almost everyone these days is trying to make a buck off their time. Thank you so much for not doing so. Its truly humbling to witness dive leaders doing something for the community for no reason other than their passion of the sport and for the people that do it. Cheers!
Appreciate your feedback Curtis. I keep getting asked to monetize my channel but not until there is a really good reason that benefits my viewers. Kevin and I pay all our own expenses on shooting gear and post-production because we love to share ideas and the history behind this great sport.
Thanks.
Alec
Your the man ! I have friends who are instructors and master divers and a couple dive shop owners and u are always cropping up in conversations with them in a very positive way . Keep em coming 👍
It's great to hear dive stores referencing my videos as they are putting their professional / business behind it. I don't say i'm perfect (only my wife is), but sharing what I learned, sometimes the hard way, I share with divers around the world to make them safer divers.
Keep watching Mike.
Alec.
Can we learn and have a laugh as well? :D
Great videos Alec... I have learned a whole lot from you! And you always get a good smile from me in every episode, love your sense of humor... keep them coming! And thank Kevin as well, I always forgot to thank him!!! shame :)
Thanks and hope you learned something new too. Kevin reads the comments and I know he appreciates the feedback also.
Lots of cool stuff coming this year.
Alec.
Hi Alec
U do a great job educating the dive community. I always learn something even if I have to go back and watch the episode again. I find that the people who are great cretics are not the best scuba divers out there.
Thank you once again for another great episode.
Keep them coming. Remember you Can’t Fix Stupid. Someday they will hurt someone or there selfs on a dive trip.
We can all learn something from this man. If no one can find or learn something from Alec then maybe y’all shouldn’t be scuba diving anymore
Safe diving
My wish is for everyone to pickup some idea or knowledge to make them a better divers.
Thanks Will
Alec.
Kevin laughed. I chuckled. It's a win/win!
Appreciate you, fellas!
Thanks Joe. Kevin and I do have fun shooting these.
Alec
Alec you are a Legend! Please keep the vids coming!
Keep watching and I will Lulu.
Alec
I like your channel not only because it’s informational but you’re also fun to listen to!
Yay, thank you Mathew.
You are the best thanks for all the tips and sea hunt videos
Glad you like them!
I’ve really been enjoying your videos, they’ve inspired me to get back into scuba! I appreciate the knowledge and the humor! have a wonderful day:)
David
Cool, thanks!
Hi Alec, I learned ALOT from all your videos, laughed too. Keep them coming, I’m pretty sure we all appreciate your efforts and vids. Cheers legend!
Glad you like them!
HA you are always entertaining and informative as you give a lot of history as to why they design things the way they do. I enjoy your history lessons and you vintage scuba series and as well as your Sea Hunt Series.!!! Thank you for doing this little pieces of gold on the internet!
Thanks for watching Justin. Lots more coming including a tank hydro test.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Cant wait!
What a great guy! I love these videos. Keep them coming.
Thanks! Will do!
A
I have been watching and enjoying your educational videos for several months now. Thank you and Kevin for all the effort and wonderful information you share with us in the diving community. I'm trying to get back into diving === after a few years away..... your videos provide me with inspiration and guidance, and I thank you.
Our pleasure! Hope you get wet soon Martin.
Alec
I love your videos Alec. Keep on making videos buddy! Lots of things learned from you!
Glad to hear it!
Still loving your video's! And never care what other people say, just focus on those who love your videos :D
I do this for fun and education so I'm very glad your enjoying these.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Love it Alec
Thanks Dean.
Alec
Great to see a new video, as always entertaining but informative. IMHO the best safe second is one that is never used in anger. Means your buddy is as smart as you. When diving on a commercial operation, I watch how other divers set up and care for their gear. If they have 'good' but not 'bells & whistles' gear that is well used but well cared for - they are the guy / girl I will team up with. If they ask to check my set up before we suit up then I know that my occy will have another boring dive...
Good points and very true in commercial diving. Your buddy checking points are especially key to solo divers looking for a new buddy every day. I'm lucky my dear wife is a fantastic diver who watches me very close.
Thanks for watching Peter.
Alec
I'm definitely laughing and learning... and I love it. What a wonderful resource. Thank you and your son for making such a quality program for so long - I can't thank you enough for your contribution to the scuba world and people like me who seek proper knowledge.
I also love that any video I watch, I don't need to be a professional diver to understand. Alec always gives a little refresher or history for those who may not know or are knew to scuba. Love that about these videos.
Glad you enjoyed it! I do it only for fun and education to help any diver.
Welcome Ary. Not every diver has 5,000 dives and $50,000 in gear. Hope there is something for any diver regardless of experience.
Love your video's. Great knowledge and personality.
I appreciate that!
Back in December, after moving to Ft Lauderdale, I purchased a new ScubaPro Hydros Pro with the Air2 second stage BCD configuration from a LDS going out of business. After watching this review and the one in which you show the disadvantages of second stage BCD configurations, I am convinced that the safest thing for me and a buddy is to have a dedicated safe second stage regulator like the one you recommend. Thanks! Love your videos and have been watching them since I decided to get back into Diving recently. Keep up the great work.... A fan in Southern Florida.
To be a safer and informed diver you need views from other divers before making decisions. Glad you're comfortable with the setup and thanks for watching.
Hi Alec. I recall buying an old regulator and it had a splitter fitting for the safe second ,that regulator did not have enough ports, so I guess when the idea of safe seconds came out people had to figure out how to use them on old setups. Interesting thing I bought a used oceanic safe second from a guy and was surprised to find the purge cover was brittle and broke into pieces however everything inside was ok. I figured it was left out in the sun too long. Found a replacement cover and it still works. Take care Owen m
Low pressure and high pressure splitter valves were needed back then before manufactures added multiple HP and LP to the first stage. Finding replacement parts for anything vintage gets harder each year so take care of it.
Thanks Owen
Alec
Hey Alec,I dove with a scubapro air 2 for years and thought that was great,never used it for buddy breathing,but I had it just in case. After watching your video on why you don’t like them, I bought a regular octopus, so now I have both that I’ve never had to use, lol
As long as your comfortable with the setup AND your buddy is too. Glad to know your a safe diver, with backup to your backup.
Alec
Alec Peirce Scuba I always try to remember to tell my buddy where the safe second is
Great video Alec! I'm just about to find out about that 'weird' octo (no. 2 & 3 in video) and your video pop out in my YT suggestions 😀 Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback Koko. Glad you learned something new.
Keep watching.
Alec
Love you too Kevin
Thanks Dean, Kevin reads all the comments to help us improve.
Alec
Haha. This damn long hose. Love the humor...
Thanks for watching.
Great video once again. Keep 'em coming! What is your feeling for having the safe second feeding on a hose from the left side, rather than the "standard" right side? This can help remove the need for the "hose twisting" that you mentioned in the video so that the receiver gets the hose coming into the second stage from the right. As long as the receiver swims to the left of the donor, there is no "hose twist" needed. In this configuration, this also means that the safe second hose can be shorter than the "normal" safe second hose.
Left or right side is not an issue, its where the regulator sits on your body and does your buddy know the hose routing. I know handicap divers and one with a missing right hand that dive with the safe second on the left. As long as your buddy, who it's intended for, know and practice, should be no problem.
Alec
Awesome video Alec keepem coming. Hey you mentioned about a snorkel video. Where's that at? Thnx
Hi, check out Tech Tip S03E10, Snorkels old and New, Also S04E02 on buying scuba gear/snorkel.
For a more info and fun, check out these Vintage Scuba playlist videos: S03E03 Just Snorkels, S05E08 Funny Snorkel Masks (we were crazy back then), S08E06 Snorkels old and new. Hope these give your something new or a laugh.
Alec
Love the video! I also like that the new design is flatter so it doesn't stick out from your chest like the original second stage octopus regs did.
Surprises me that after decades of service, they occasionally come up with a truly good idea. Now if they can come out with a small nuclear powered wet suitd to heat surrounding water to 85F. Someday....
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Heated water - 85 F, sounds like Florida! :-)
Alex, don’t let the bastards get you down. 🙂
I don't Ron. Just offering my many years of hands on experience in recreational, instructional and business sides of the scuba sport I love so much.
Alec
Hi Alex. Great video. I have a “puck” style safe second but find it is not a good breathing regulator. I do like it as it sits flatter when in position and it can be very quickly deployed without fussing with it’s orientation. Are these safe seconds specifically detuned to breathe less easily and therefore less likely to freeflow? Can they be tuned to breathe better with more free flow risk? Or are they inherently a poor design? I am considering upgrading to a new second stage in “octo” format to have a better breathing safe second. Are those in the same state of tune as the primary? Should it be detuned somewhat. It does ahve a predive switch so I presume it should be adjusted to the same inhalation effort as the primary.
Generally, the safe second would be tuned to it's easies breathing point, same as the second stage. Look in my previous videos for how its actually done. Depending on preference, you ask the service tech to make it slightly harder if you want to prevent most accidental free flows (ie jumping off a boat sometimes sets it off). Most divers leave it to the service pro but experienced ones may have a preference on setting. Thanks for watching.
Alec
Hi Alec, Do you have a video about cleaning and caring for a BCD? Cheers, Tom Hartman
Look back in Tech Tips to videos S07E13, S09E08, S09E17. These should help, there may be more too.
Alec
Hi Alec, great video. Have you considered having people come on who have different experiences to you. Perhaps start with Bill Main?
Who would want to stand next to me and try and talk, ha. Bill is a very well known and respected Hog cave diver where my focus is on recreational divers, OW instructors and store owners. Just want to share some knowledge to make divers safer.
Thanks for the feedback.
Alec
What are your thoughts on the octopus molders that cover the mouth piece?
Many divers cover their safe second mouthpiece to keep it clean but if you don't clean the inside of the cover (example the ball style), it builds up yucky stuff that rubs off on the mouthpiece. Most divers leave the safe second uncovered but attached with a basic clip.
You can buy Poseidon cyklon 5000 works also both ways and it’s vintige also looks awsome for me :)
Thanks for sharing that info.
Be a little careful when you put it on a non Poseidon 1stage since the Cyklone is suposed to run at an intermediate pressure of 11,5 bar and most 1stages run at 9,5..
it shouldnt do anything but still.. just think about it.. =)
I wonder for visibility means if you're running a long hose primary it should be bright colored too since it's the one you donate. Then the octopus around your necklace can be dull.
There are many discussions and strong opinions on long hose use and setup, trust me I know. Some have both regulators dark but it is up to their training which regulator is donated. Lots of TH-cam videos on this and several good forum discussions on ScubaBoard.com to help you.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
Hi Alec , this XS scuba octopus can be put on any 1st stage ? When I was buying my Atomic regulator set with Z2 second stage , tech in dive store told me that XS octopus will not work on my setup. Didn't get more in depth explaining why. So I got same 2nd stage in yellow.
If your talking a standard octo setup, I don't know why it wouldn't work. All LP ports have the same thread and the safe second is tuned when setup so it might have been more a sales point that a factual 'not working' point.
Alec
What are your thoughts on the scuba pro style second that’s integrated into the BCD
Watch my video on this subject S04E12 BCD Mounded Safe Second. Give you ideas before making your decision.
God help Kevin should he ever run out of air; he'll be ridiculed to death before he hits the surface. ha ha ha. Good tips and great video.
With 600+ dives around the world and a PADI IDCS instructor, Kevin has not run out of air himself. He did tell me a dive buddy ran out of air once and only once! Big guys use bigger tanks, my wife can do a 50 minute dive on a 65 cu/ft tank and surface with more air than she started with.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter ha ha, as a big myself, I understand! You guys are a great duo, love the show.
is the XS Scuba Octo in this video reliable? Are there any issues with it?
For myself and Kevin, it works great and in any position.
hi, Alec just swapped my regular regulator hose to miflex and saw that miflex uses different size o ring, should i just use standard o ring or follow what miflex supplied ,
for exemple
miflex
LP hose 9/16" female uses 6.35mm x 1.78mm o ring
HP hose 7/16" male uses 8.73mm x 1.78mm o ring
while standard uses
size
010 O ring which is 6.07mm x 1.78mm for LP female 9/19"
and
012 O ring which is 9.25mm x 1.78mm for HP 7/16" male port
I wasn't aware of a difference. It doesn't make sense to me since the fittings ought to be identical to the older rubber hoses. But, assuming you are right, the size difference is very small so the original hose O-Rings will work. In most cases I always say to follow the manufacturers recommendations.
Alec
The best Safe Second is one of your sidemount cylinders with a long hose. "Here, slurp all you like!"
Or a thinking dive buddy who never needs spare air in any setup.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Never know when you'll encounter a solo diver in an emergency!
Well you had an apeks to start with , a very good second stage. But in my opinion if you cannot find the calm to stick that in your mouth at a high level of stress your not going to get the slim purpose built seconds in your mouth. You have to familiarize yourself with drowning and get a bit of comfort in not guzzling air to just get up to your buddy, or your own second first stage mounted second. And get another device in your mouth. In that way diving gets safer 200%
I'm not sure but I don't think any scuba training agency or divers agree with the point to 'familiarize yourself with drowning'. Skydivers don't familiarize themselves with hitting the ground with no parachute. But I think i get your point to learn to manage stress. Thanks for the comment.
Honestly, the best safe second is one that nobody ever needs to use.
That's for sure. Sometimes it depends on how much you like your dive buddy!
Alec
Therefore the air 2 is the best because nobody CAN use it!
Better to just get rid of the "buddy" and go solo 😉
That's why you carry a dive knife.
A
The music was a bit much early in the morning.
Sorry about the music Mike but did you pick up something new?
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Always. I'll just have to turn down the volume when waking up.
I really don't see why the DIR community is so adamantly against the standard set up of an octo donate. If you're tech/cave diving I get it.. you actually need a long hose set up for that kind of diving. But your average recreational diver?? What's wrong with the standard set up that literally EVERY diver knows and understands?
What's wrong with it? The objections are that it can be hard to locate on a diver, tends to eventually pop loose and get dragged in the bottom muck with resultant heightened risk of mechanical failure, and training to donate one's primary instead of one's octo better protects a diver against a panicked diver grabbing the primary out of one's mouth. The converse argument is that the "standard" octo setup is more widely taught and practiced.
I believe that most divers (though certainly not all) who implement a longhose system find these points compelling and ultimately prefer a longhose-type setup in their diving. I have done both and I use an open-ocean version of the longhose setup (which is to say a medium length hose). I would never use a standard setup by choice again. I feel safer with my second around my neck, and my training makes me safer this way as well. The problem comes when I go with my primary donate setup and some guy tells me I ought not be diving it, that I need a standard setup, etc. I have have had to defend myself and push back against this multiple times. It's not so much that the DIR community is adamantly against the standard system, as it is that it is adamantly for the primary donate setup and experience unfortunately teaches that if primary donate is not advocated, its use is under threat. Personally, I will not compromise my own safety, and primary donate is a part of it.
Edit: Please note that I really like Alec and his videos and have learned a great deal from him, even if I don't always agree with everything he says.
@@Bierstadt54 it seems that the objections to the standard set up can largely be mitigated if divers would actually just practice their emergency procedures and take car of their equipment. And I've never struggled to spot the big bright octo on someone's kit.
Another question I have..
How many recreational dive accidents/fatalities can we say with confidence could have been avoided if one or both parties had been trained in long hose/primary donate? Are we trying to mitigate a problem that could be fixed without reinventing the wheel?
I'm not against it. Not at all. I just have questions.
@@Bierstadt54 That's a big debate. In my case, I always discuss with my buddy before the dive if I don't know him. I've got a 210cm orange hose connected to my octo on my chest, and I always tell him to grab this one in case of emergency. My primary stays in my mouth (it's a kraken double hose, also. Not the first thing one should grab in an OOA situation). If I go on tech dives, I can also have 2 safe seconds: my double hose, an octo connected to it, a second first stage with a standard reg connected to it. That's overkill in terms of redundancy, I know ;)
Kyle there are endless debates and pro/cons to every aspect of diving. What to start a heated debate? Say split fins or jet fins are no good, then be prepared for a wave of input. Regarding long hose today, its fantastic for those trained and have real uses for that skill (ie cavers). But today, brand new divers learn the standard setup which allows them to branch off into many great specialties; tech, cave, ice. Read everyone's comments but make up your own mind.
Alec