Simplified Rotary Table Setup. Tool Demonstration #1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2019
- The Rotary Table alignment tool from Advanced Innovations makes setting a part on a rotary table, a breeze. This video will demonstrate how using this tool streamlines an otherwise frustrating process. Every shop should have one of these available to their guys.
The alignment pin is available at www.advancedinnovationsllc.co...
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Hi after watching this video I purchased an alignment pin. I have never used a rotary table before. Over the past few days I set it up on my Bridgeport mill, after making T nuts and clamps for the vise. Today I followed your instructions for set up, It worked excellent. I think you have some of the best and most practical machining videos on TH-cam!! Thank You I look forward to more videos
Thank you for the compliment and feedback. This pin really does make life easy. I appreciate your purchase.
Great demo Joe. I bought one of your alignment tools and used it on my very first rotary table project yesterday. I made some T-nuts for the rotary table and rounded one end to fit the rounded end of the slots on my Phase II table. Worked like a dream. Not sure how I would have set up without it.
Rather cool tool.
I really like the time you take to point out what you're doing, it helps those of us who are particularly slow to learn.
Just for giggles... I especially liked the apparent blessing you gave the vise and spindle at 12:30ish.
I bought my RTAT when they were available last time. I love it and encourage anyone who might be on the fence to just buy this quality tool. You won't be disappointed. Thanks Joe!
Thanks for the endorsement Guy. It really does simplify a rotary table setup once you use it. Fly safe.
This was such a clear explanation. At every point I was able to understand the hows and whys of your method. I “saw” the dog-bone or chain-link shape in the piece even before your first cut. Very slick.
Glad it was helpful!
Joe, thanks for sharing your practical knowledge. It’s a gift of gold every time you share. 🍺🍺 Joel.....
Another enjoyable lesson on effective simple-ness. A pleasure.
That really is a cool little setup tool, nice idea! Thanks for sharing!
Useful aligning/set up tool. I've not seen those before, and I feel a bit silly for never having thought of such a simple idea myself.
I spent enough time finding edges for milling that this would have been worth making years ago... as an apprentice project!
Awesome tool with multiple uses. Thanks for the great demonstration.
Cheers, Gary
Thanks Gary. This pin works well.
Thanks Joe, great video, look forward to more using rotary table (please consider)
Great demo Joe . . . the eternal quest for perfection.
Thanks Joe - you are a mine of info - very effective demo. If I had any spare cash I'd order one of your alignment tools... it'll have to wait unfortunately.
Great video Joe! I like the detailed explained methods you use. I just ordered one! Thanks again,
Thank you. You'll like it.
Wonderful demonstration!!!
Nice method. A little complex but understood. Thanks!
Real nice Demo Joe!! Thanks👍👍
Pretty slick, makes it really repeatable. Thanks for sharing !
It takes a lot of the fuss out of the setup.
Nothing like good tools AND thinking ahead.
another great tool and lesson, thanks
I just thought of a work around for your rotary table slots not lining up with X and Y axis. Make an adjustable index mark where your zero point is, when the table slots do line up the way you like them. I didn't read through the 400 odd comments already , to see if someone else had the idea first. If so sorry for that. I do learn a lot here. Keep up the great work.👍👌
Thanks for the comment. The adjustable index mark is part of this rotary table, but the adjustment and bracket design fell way short of the shift needed. I fabricated one with an extreme offset and slot for alignment. It was the easiest way out.
Neat, hadn't ever thought of using something like this.
Really slick demo of a pretty slick gizmo.🖒
If you want to save even more time, as you already lifted the cutter, on the finish pass don't wind the table backwards 260 degrees but wind forward 100. Just saying times money.😚
Nice tool. Great use.
Very cool Joe,,,also have a 8520 Clausing, loved the video.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for cutting into your beer time to bring this to us.
another awesome video Joe, thanks man!
Hey Bo. thanks for checking in. Glad you liked it.
Very cool Joe.
Another great video Joe, well done!
Hey Ray, thanks for watching.
did you do a video on how you made this tool. Really marvelous videos
I’m not a metal guy but a wood guy. Still, a big fan of this and other metal machining channels. I learn plenty to use in my (hobby) shop. One of the things in common is this idea of climb cutting vs. the “normal” way. (What IS that called?) Several comments about it here and elsewhere so maybe it’s a good topic for one of your always good white board sessions. I imagine there’s more to it than a better finish or tool flex. I can see this list of subjects down the right side of your board now!
A humble suggestion. Good video as always...thanks
The normal way is commonly referred to as 'Conventional" cutting. Climb cutting works very well with wood since it doesn't promote cracking.
Thanks Joe.
I shall make myself a proper metric version of this ! Seems like a very hand gizmo!
Paddy
That was very interesting so fast & clean, well produced film too. I don’t know what you called the tool’ reference stop tool I guess.
Clearly a very handy tool as an improved edge finder of sorts.
Hey Joe how do you go about making those do mill down 1" round or do you turn down square stock with the 4 jaw.......I'd just buy one from you but I think it might be fun to make I'm sure yours are much more accurate than mine will be
Any possibility that you'd make this tool where the 3/4" shank steps down to 1/2"? I'd love one but my Clausing 8520 mill and Emco are limited to 1/2" collets
Hi Joe, rather than taking the part out and reseting for the second half, could you not have moved the table back the distance between the 2 centre holes minus the 40° offset while cutting an just turn the table round again to do the other end then forward to the end of the first cut. Or was the exersize based on the use of the tool you made to realighn exactly for a second cut. thanks again for teaching us different tools and ways to do things.
Brilliant.
Didn't no you had these for sale. Nice meeting you at the bash.
Nice to finally put a face behind the coasters I use just about every day. Good to meet you as well.
Another great video!! Who makes that vise you are using on the rotary table?
When are you going to make some more of the Rotary Table Alignment / Location Tool for Mini Mills?
I'm not sure that is the standard way of making chain links... ;)
Have you reduced your shipping costs to the UK, and if so when are they likely to be back in stock?
Just bought one thanks for the video
Thanks for the purchase.
That is an awesome peice for the spindle!
Just curious. Where you sell them?
@@craigwilson8255 www.advancedinnovationsllc.com/shop
thanks for the lesson......ATB
Hi Chuck. Thanks for checking in. We all missed you at the Bash this year. I hope all is going well, or at least expected to get there soon. Take care buddy.
When will you have these tools available again on your site?
May I ask what vise are you using on your rotary table? It looks like we have a similar sized table and that would be perfect.
Love your videos! I was wondering if you could do a video on how you would approach machining something like a 120-degree Y-shaped 1/4" NPT coupling without a 5-axis mill? I recently completed one for a quick weekend machining project that turned into something much more complex for a simple end part. There really wasn't anything online to demonstrate the setup, I'd love to see if there are more efficient approaches to this type of common part.
Do you want a pretty part, or a functional part?
I do not have a Dro so yes that is a very wise thing to do, (always set yourself back to zero on a clockwise rotation)!.
👍 you know all the tricks. Good stuff.
Joe,
Great video. New to this hobby. Your channel is the machinist's equivalent of Norm Abram''s New Yankee Workshop.
Can you do a demonstration video on making the alignment tool?
Thanks
Jim
That tool is an in house product we sell and probably won't get video documented. Sorry.
John
Another use I haven't seen mentioned is to use it it the lathe for setting tool height.
John
th-cam.com/video/Qfd-bkhr-NE/w-d-xo.html 12:52
G'day Joe. I was wondering whether you have considered making a metric version if this awesome setup tool, for those of us in the "civilised" world ? 🤣
Thank you, but where and how i will be able to buy. all regards
Handy tool, I made a lo-fi version for myself.
Seems like that tool would also be useful for setting lathe tool height as well.
yep.
Very valuable information.I have your alignment pin with me.Thank you.
Thats a very handy tool. A set of adjustable parallels and a table mounted X axis rail on your rotary table will really help too.
Nice
Nice demo, Joe.
Maybe I missed this in an earlier video, but when you make the pins, how do you inspect them to verify that the flat face is in line with the cylinder axis? I assume it wasn't the center head on your combo square 🙃
All 4 faces are driven from a precision turned diameter. Its quite a process, but very accurate. .0005 max is my max deviation.
Joe a great setup BUT, how about if the holes need to be a certain accurate dimension apart ? The blocks would need to be accurately machined to length first to do it the way you showed. Is there another way using your setup with the blocks just rough sawn to length to be finished to size when rotary machined ?
Hi Dave, good to hear from you. Thats Demonstration video #2. Coming up.
@@joepie221 Would that be using the rod and bushing trick with the double sided tape to set the hole locations? After finding center of course.
Hey Joe, serious question this time 🙂 maybe I missed the setup, but did you trust that one clamp on the rotary table to hold your vise? I was surprised not to see you make a holding setup at the other end of your vise. Thx. As always, I consider you the machinist's machinist.
Joe West, I wondered the exact same thing when I was watching. In case you didn’t figure it out, I noticed when Joe Pie swung the table around that he never removed the adjustable parallel that was wedged against the ‘x-axis’ fence that was locked down. That clever trick effectively locked the vise from rotating. Hope that helps. I find I need to have my head on a swivel when watching JP’s videos as they are chock full of tricks he doesn’t have time to mention. 👍👍😎👍👍
Hi Joe- do you only use one clamp on the vise to the rotary table?
thanks
It depends on the aggressive nature of the cut. Light stuff like this, one is fine. More aggressive, use two for sure.
Excellent tool!! Where's your logo?
Hello Joe, long time subscriber but I missed the offer to order the alinement pin are you offering any more or to you plan to?
I will accept advanced orders. Best guess 4-6 week delivery.
So i your opinion, would it be better to get the largest rotary table that will suit the machine? Over the smallest kind that would fit. In going to get one here soon bu6im glad i waited over buying a 4 inch, because that would fit nicely on my mill table without overhang but im thinking a 6 is probably made a little better and the same with 8but thats too big.
You will only be restricted by the mounting position to the machine body. I'd get bigger than 4" if it was my choice. You can always add a bigger tooling plate to the rotary table if needed too.
Is there a center finder large enough to plunge into that bore hole on the rotary table, like a live center or something?
Believe it or not, the center bore isn't the most accurate way to coordinate a rotary table to your machine spindle. Make sure you watch 'Demonstration video #2' I'll show you.
@@joepie221 My 12" rotary table came with an MT4 bore. Would the bore you indicated be more accurate? I'll have to do it Joe's way and see how far out my down chuck, up chuck method is.
After seein' how useful them thar alignment tool be I went and sawed off a length o' rebar and a hunk o' hot rolled and stick welded me up one of things. I cain't seem to gets it to align so good. Cans you tell me whats I might have done wrong?
Could've been a damp welding rod. Try tig for a clean looking finish.
Depends on what day of the week it was, and what kinda dog crap was stuck to yur booots. Its all in the details.
Did you use metric rebar and imperial HRS?
Just a quick question, do these pins comes with a Mill macine so I can use them?
😄
BTW great video as usual.
He has an Enco. Here is a link where he replaced the pulley bearings. th-cam.com/video/XIizyhJDzLg/w-d-xo.html
Oops. I miss read your question. Sorry.
Nice setup tool. Do you have one for a 3/8" shank (for my Sherline)?
1/2" shank is available. Is that still too big?
Yeah, still too big.
@@KM6VV if you place an order for the Mini Mill alignment pin and reference your KM6VV channel name, I can get one cut down for you if you want one. I know they are running some in the morning.
Thanks for checking. Looks a little pricey for me at this time.
So why dont you use any oil when cutting aluminum? Is it due to the fact of being a quick demonstration? I was always taught to never cut aluminum dry.
You are using either end of your work as an origin, subjecting the piece to stacking tolerances. How might this be done using a single reference point?
Your observation is correct. The rounds cut here do depend on an accurate overall length of the block. A single end reference could be achieved by simply knowing the center to center distance of the rounds, re-install the pin, make the machine offset the center to center distance and re-register the part against the pin. This would probably be even more accurate as the stationary side of the part would stay against the stationary side of the vise. Be sure to watch the other setup demonstration videos for this device.
hi Joe,
do you make that setup tool in a metric version?
Made from metric steel. Does that count?
One need only be willing to work with 12.7mm at a time.
well the dials on my bridgeport are metric and using imperial measurement tools gets to be confusing and a real pain real quick. it's not that i'm trying to be facetious...also most of the collets i have are metric as well. i have a few imperial sized ones but those rarely come out of the box
I honestly thought you were kidding. Sorry. Only the shank would need to be metric. The faces would still perform as intended with some math. The .750 shank may possibly fit a 19mm collet
You could make it yourself if you wanted one bad enough and had the equipment to do it with.
It's a sure sign that you're watching too many Joe Pie videos when you find yourself saying things like "All day long" and "unloosening" while you are working ; )
checking my table spindle saved my part when my boss told me to use a rotory that had beem roming the shop as a paper wight and now we know why lol
Joe, great video as usual. Am kinda surprised though that you didn't do the coordinates for the straight cuts during the video since they would only take less than 1 minute to do with a calc since you have such a good knowledge of the trig for this.... Granted, the Y axis cut moves could be off by small amount being that you referenced from Saw cut ends.
EDIT: Disregard the lengthy read below. Its the long way around the problem.... Shorter even faster way around that slipped my mind is in comments below...
For anyone who might read this (Joe, I know you will already know this) who is curious on what it would have taken to actually calculate the X,Y positions for the straight cuts, Since we know that his tool was on a 1" Centerline offset from the center of the part and we know that he went 40° beyond the 180° arc on each side, that would be a total cut of 260°. That obviously would leave 100° left out of the full 360°.
We can then split that 100° in half thus allowing use to have two equal right triangles formed for the between the center of radial cuts made and the ends of those cuts. Since we know that we have to equal 180° for a triangle, and we know that we have a 50° angle at the center of the semi-circular features and a 90° angle from the centerline of the part along the Y axis, this means that the other angle is 40°.
Since the line along the Y axis (Y axis offset for actual cut start point) would be the side "Opposite" of the 40° angle and the 1" long line (in this example) that is formed from center of the radial feature and the center or the tool at the end of the radial feature cut is the hypotenuse, we use the Cos of the angle * the length of the hypotenuse to find the length of the side "adjacent" which is the X axis offset too. So we have Cos(40)*1" = .7660in So our X position for the start of the cut would be .7660
Then we just use the pythagorean theorem (a² + b² = c², or in this case since we are using the Hypotenuse, it would be c² -b² = a²) to find the Y offset since we know that the Hypotenuse is 1" and we know the Base is .7660 so we use do 1² - .7660² = .413244², so then we just do the √.413244 = .6428
So from our 0,0 point with the block in the correct orientation, we would move the X to .7660 and Y to .6428 to start our cut. If we know the exact center to center distance between our two semi-circular features, then we could just take that spec and subtract our Y start offset that we just calculated from the center distance from 0,0 of the other semi-circular cut to find our ending point for our Y move to make the cut... For example, Lets say that Joe had made the part so that the center to center distance of the two semi-circular features was 4.000", we know we would just take the 4.000 and subtract the .6428 Y value calculated above this giving us 3.3572 so we would just shift the X axis to .7660 and then Y to .6428, plunge the mill and move the Y thru our cut to 3.3572. Repeat for the other side (- X value) and your done.
I know like that seemed like a lot, but really if you know the trig for it and have a calculator that has trig functions, it literally takes less than a minute or two to calculate out the points in something like this. Maybe Joe can use this video to make another showing visual representation of the trig as I described above (unless he already has one that would be a similar example that I'm unaware of or not thinking of).
Write another chapter for those of us who are 'slow'.
I had forgotten how much I love simple math...all theses videos with intricate layout are so much fun to watch. I missed my calling...
That's the long way around. The two corners are 40° off the x axis, and the radius of the cutter is 1". Your basic circle is x,y = r cos theta, r sin theta, so x is ±cos 40°, and y is -sin 40°.
@@PaulSteMarie Haha, you are right.. No idea why I didn't think about using the other sin for the side opposite just like cos for the side adjacent... Thanks for catching that and pointing it out... The funny thing is just yesterday during the day I was doing just that at work to do a bolt circle yet just a few hours later, didn't think of it... Ugh...
Hey Joe, Loving the Channel as a newbie im learning heaps! i have a request that you may or may not have touched on before - Could you do a laymans way of finding the degree or angle of spline teeth? i have a spline here that i would like to practice cutting and id like to be able to accurately find the angle of each tooth but its too small for my protractor. any help would be appreciated or links from fellow machinists. Cheers, Troy
Off topic question, what is the knocking noise in your mill?
China
Dan Frame I have a Bridgeport and it has the same noise
Front spline bushings.
Thanks Joe!
What Grade of Alloy are you using here?
303 for the tool
Joe - what kind of mill do you have?
ENCO
Dear Joe
Could you please do a Video on climb cutting.
Principles and problems, techniques ext.
Christopher from Down Under
Do you plan to make a version of this tool with a 0.500 shank? My mill is a Clausing 8520 that only takes MT2 collets, with a max of 1/2" diameter.
I may consider that. I have also had requests for 3/8". Anybody else interested in smaller diameters?? Please reply.
@@joepie221 Hi Joe, either of those smaller sizes would be very helpful for mini mills - thanks!
@@joelsciamma9322 1/2" dia currently for sale on my webstore www.advancedinnovationsllc.com/shop
On the .500" shank version would adding a 0.250" diameter center hole with a floating 0.249" diameter headed die punch provide a needed feature? The hole's diameter top portion could be relieved, the bottom 1" portion wire EDM finished.
Hi Joe, thanks for the video. I would be interested in purchasing an alignment pin as shown in the video if available. What are the purchasing details (cost, etc).
Greetings. I had to halt the pre-order of the pins until I had solid numbers on the next run yield. Are you a Texas resident, or somewhere in the USA?
Joe Pieczynski - I am in Michigan.
@@nevetslleksah I checked the yield last night. I will have a few left over if all goes well. $48.45 with shipping. 4-6 wk delivery at this time. Paypal account is jpieczynski221@aol.com if you care to send a payment, I'll get you on the list and send you a confirmation. Make sure to note your shipping address.
Joe Pieczynski - PayPal payment sent, thanks.
Is the tool still available for purchase? Thanks
Yes it is. www.advancedinnovationsllc.com/shop Thank you for your interest.
where do i buy this so called alignment pin?
Currently out of stock, but available through the link in the video description.
Where can I get some of those pins?
Currently out of stock, but available through the link in the video description.
How dow we get one and how much are they?
Randy
Hi Randy. These are currently out of stock, but soon the be replenished on my webstore. Link in the video description.
I missed out on purchasing your allinment pin but I did make my own and my rotary table arrives tomorrow I can't wait thanks for your channel it helps a great deal but I do have a question but I'm sure when my rotary table comes in I will have my answer you mentioned that your t slot does not line up with the x axis why can't you disengage table aline it and then reengage it
The index plate didn't allow for that, and the index marks are hard engraved into the table. Only an offset indicator will solve this issue.
@@joepie221 yup I’ve noticed that I have the same problem I will have to make an offset just like you did but first I have to make some t bolts again thanks for your help and your channel it makes a big difference to those less skilled ps I was able to find a Illinois trig table book
When will the alignment pin be available?
After the fixture plate rush is under control.
Any chance of tutorial of milling inconel ?
I don't work with that material by choice. The devil invented it.
When you’re about 2:10 from the end of the video, and you have just connected the “heads” in the dog-bone on one side, instead of moving the bed into nest the cutter to the other side of the blank, couldn’t you have swung the index table 180° to the other side and made the connecting cut? In my mind, I see that the center line of the dog-bone is on the center of the index table, therefore turning the need table 180° would put the cutter inboard of the edge of the aluminum block the same amount on the new side as it was on the side you had just cut. But my mind doesn’t always see in 3D very well. Even if I “saw” it correctly probably no different as the part is cut and finished.
The straight center can be done in one setup with table shifts, but the round ends require a second setup. Sequence is your call.
If Joe zeroed the DRO for the initial spotface, then the x-value for the second straight (tangent) cut is the same as for the first straight cut, but negative. I assume this is how he managed the second side in one pass, rather than stepping it in and eyeballing it. He probably also noted the y values for the start and finish of the cut.
Ok, this looks good. I went there to see whether I should make this myself, or buy it. It’s about $48 with shipping, so I just ordered one. Too cheap to bother making it.
I just printed your label. Thanks for the purchase. You're going to like how easy it makes the setup.
Is there any backlash in that rotary table? If so how do you accommodate for it?
always go in one direction.
Going in one direction is a solid thought, or just know how much you have and allow for it.
I'm surprised the other end of that vise didn't come loose on you with just the one clamp on the end ?
If it was a heavier load cut, I would have used 2.
Hi joe how do I get one I am in the U K.
I ship to the UK all the time. They are currently out of stock though. Check my web store from time to time for availability. Link is in the video description.
Man I hare air to be used around any machine, I love vacuum!
I have to say a vacuum will never clean like air. You just have to be aware of where you can use it and not.
OFF TOPIC QUESTION
Why has nobody ever made a mechanical iris steady rest, or 3-jaw chuck steady rest, with bearings for the lathe?
Am I wrong in thinking that it should make the setup quick and flawless?
:
I've thought about the 'steady chuck' idea before it would be pretty awesome, you could also use a 4 jaw steady for supporting long offset work pieces if ever you had the need.
I might bump this up the project list, I'm pretty keen to see one of these :)
+TommyGun Machining
Wouldn't the 4-jaw steady basically be the same as using the pre-existing steady rest, attempting to zero the adjustments, so to speak? I'm trying to get away from that.
:
I was talking about interesting offset setups where steady rests are normally central only. It was my tangent to your tangent!
But yes, a centred 3 jaw steady should work for what you are talking about
I have a 3 jaw tailstock chuck with bearings.
+Joe Pieczynski
Have you already done a video on it - if so, could you please provide a link?
:
Did this tool start out life as a round or square stock?
I can see it made with round or square.
Hi Worth. It starts off as round stock. It keeps things simple ( relatively ).
@@joepie221 Thank you Joe I suspected as much. :>)
How do I get one?
www.advancedinnovationsllc.com/shop
Yep add me to the *"I'M A NICKEL LONG AND A DOLLAR SHORT AND I ALSO MISSED THE OFFER"* list
I will run more if you care to place an order and assure your spot for the next run.
@@joepie221 yes Joe, absolutely I guarantee I am in on run #3!!!!
Its already selling quickly.
I am not a machinist, please dont take the question the wrong way...Are the faces of that tool lapped and hardened or is not important on such a tool?
Its not a wear component. This is not hardened.