I think aside from the product, one of the important things indie developers can take from this is that this guy has set up a business to support himself whilst he works on his own passion project, which is a smart plan if you want total creative freedom. I'm personally a big advocate for doing things that way since it allows you to pursue game dev as a passion more-so than a business.
Been working with people who managed to make some semblance of MMO. The project is probably over 10 years in development now, the team was heavily understaffed (20-30 people, I think), everyone seemed to be burned out (at least no one wanted to talk about the game except game designer and community managers), content was slow to deliver and mediocre at best, bugs and glitches were everywhere and seeing another player in the game even once a day would be a surprise. They tried to acquire players for a round of pre-alpha once, it didn't go well - no one cared about some unknown game with onboarding harder than "click download" (you had to apply for testing to get a key, but by the time players got a response, they had already gave up on playing, in the end we had to send keys directly). The few ones who went in played for 1 session and left, and even fewer ones either stayed in discord to chat or were trying to do crazy stuff in the game, resulting in more bug reports. At some point something went wrong in the team, so half of them left, then they renamed the game and didn't post any update info for over 2 years as of now. I had to go shortly after the incident, so I have no idea on their current status, but their discord chat has been decaying in activity and is now dead silent for about a year. I'd say, it's actually better to fail the idea at the very beginning than signing yourself up for this torture. Having a working server is good, but that won't solve any issues with making tons of content (you're expecting to have players stay for years, not for a few hours), acquiring/keeping a "massive" amount of players (what M in MMO stands for?) or doing costly PR stuff. If you're crazy enough to go this path anyway, I'd suggest looking for less content-dependant models: you're not going to have enough manpower to make 10000+ quests in a WoW-like, but adding a feature for user-generated content (like building blocks, custom rooms/maps or even importable assets) can make your burden way easier (though you still need a lot of dedicated players to make that content, otherwise no one would care).
Everyone really need to learn from this first before making an MMO. Gazing up to the sky is great and all, but never ignore the giant's shoulder below.
I’ve been working on my MMO for 4 years now. 3 years on Unity, then starting over in Godot beginning last September, yes it is my first game, yes it’s a huge scope, but I have been making the necessary progress.
@@eightsprites hehe, well large scopes are nothing new to me. I have been a project manager in enterprise space, and an IT Generalist for 35 years now.
If they are able to solve all the basic hurdles possible as a framework or whatever, that would be impressive and help a ton. Nevertheless, there are a few problems that can't be eliminated.....in particular the need to crank out more content frequently enough to pacify your userbase. That is a tall ask, but it can be done if a team wants to work on the same game forever even after release.
It looks good, for indies, I may give it a go. I'm sure the Star Citizen comment was tongue in cheek because the company that engineered server meshing could teach you guys a thing or two, not the other way around.
Looks like a very useful and interesting tool! I toyed around a bit with Improbable's SpatialOS which was mindblowing at the time. Sad it didn't really take off. Thank you Planetary Processing for making these videos possible! I'll go and join the discord now!
Interesting. I feel like it's still not a very good idea to create an MMO as a solo indie because you'll also have to support the game, manage cheaters, stuff like that. But it seems great for indie teams :)
The hardest pasrt about making a succesful MMO is to get enough players, keep them engaged and get your invested money out of it again. If this takes away a bunch of the technical hurdles that'll be great! I'd like to make a mini mmo gamejam game sometime
The pocket dimensions are called instances. Which can be done rather cheaply by adding warp to map functionality or a constructor function to build and or store a map, which will still require a warp to map function.(Mostly for private instances) Public instances could simply be a warp to a separate map, you'd end up having everything on one big map as mentioned which is a bit cheap. The benefits is of instancing is it can diminish congestion issues. The instancing could also be used akin to a channel on a server to make multiple instances of the the same map(area). Tracking and loading the necessary assets/entities based on their location and map I.D and instance I.D.
Not if those 5000 players are all online in a single shared world that feels full of life when you play it. I think expectations need adjusted in the mmo world if indies come onto the scene.
MMO is not a market that should be saturated. The entire idea of MMOs is that they're a large united virtual world that everyone partakes in. The idea of having many small indie ones doesn't make any sense and is very counter-productive.
I couldn't disagree more, the games industry is huge and growing fast. Indie MMOs could easily capture a slice of that huge pie and with much more variety and creativity, they can do to MMOs what they did to the rest of the industry and make it far more interesting and creative!
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I think aside from the product, one of the important things indie developers can take from this is that this guy has set up a business to support himself whilst he works on his own passion project, which is a smart plan if you want total creative freedom. I'm personally a big advocate for doing things that way since it allows you to pursue game dev as a passion more-so than a business.
Been working with people who managed to make some semblance of MMO. The project is probably over 10 years in development now, the team was heavily understaffed (20-30 people, I think), everyone seemed to be burned out (at least no one wanted to talk about the game except game designer and community managers), content was slow to deliver and mediocre at best, bugs and glitches were everywhere and seeing another player in the game even once a day would be a surprise.
They tried to acquire players for a round of pre-alpha once, it didn't go well - no one cared about some unknown game with onboarding harder than "click download" (you had to apply for testing to get a key, but by the time players got a response, they had already gave up on playing, in the end we had to send keys directly). The few ones who went in played for 1 session and left, and even fewer ones either stayed in discord to chat or were trying to do crazy stuff in the game, resulting in more bug reports.
At some point something went wrong in the team, so half of them left, then they renamed the game and didn't post any update info for over 2 years as of now. I had to go shortly after the incident, so I have no idea on their current status, but their discord chat has been decaying in activity and is now dead silent for about a year.
I'd say, it's actually better to fail the idea at the very beginning than signing yourself up for this torture. Having a working server is good, but that won't solve any issues with making tons of content (you're expecting to have players stay for years, not for a few hours), acquiring/keeping a "massive" amount of players (what M in MMO stands for?) or doing costly PR stuff. If you're crazy enough to go this path anyway, I'd suggest looking for less content-dependant models: you're not going to have enough manpower to make 10000+ quests in a WoW-like, but adding a feature for user-generated content (like building blocks, custom rooms/maps or even importable assets) can make your burden way easier (though you still need a lot of dedicated players to make that content, otherwise no one would care).
Everyone really need to learn from this first before making an MMO. Gazing up to the sky is great and all, but never ignore the giant's shoulder below.
Sounds insane. I wonder how easy/user friendly this tool really is , either way seems promising!
Great video. I love seeing the people behind the tools that allows indies to be indies. 😎
I’ve been working on my MMO for 4 years now. 3 years on Unity, then starting over in Godot beginning last September, yes it is my first game, yes it’s a huge scope, but I have been making the necessary progress.
Congratulation!
You have and will learn alot!
I did the same, learned a lot.. but never made a mmo 😂
@@eightsprites hehe, well large scopes are nothing new to me. I have been a project manager in enterprise space, and an IT Generalist for 35 years now.
4 years on your first game is respectable as freak. Especially being so open to switch engines when others *cough Unity* break trust. Good luck!
Is there a reason you went to godot instead of unreal?
Why godot?
If they are able to solve all the basic hurdles possible as a framework or whatever, that would be impressive and help a ton. Nevertheless, there are a few problems that can't be eliminated.....in particular the need to crank out more content frequently enough to pacify your userbase. That is a tall ask, but it can be done if a team wants to work on the same game forever even after release.
It looks good, for indies, I may give it a go. I'm sure the Star Citizen comment was tongue in cheek because the company that engineered server meshing could teach you guys a thing or two, not the other way around.
Looks like a very useful and interesting tool! I toyed around a bit with Improbable's SpatialOS which was mindblowing at the time. Sad it didn't really take off.
Thank you Planetary Processing for making these videos possible! I'll go and join the discord now!
Interesting. I feel like it's still not a very good idea to create an MMO as a solo indie because you'll also have to support the game, manage cheaters, stuff like that. But it seems great for indie teams :)
The hardest pasrt about making a succesful MMO is to get enough players, keep them engaged and get your invested money out of it again. If this takes away a bunch of the technical hurdles that'll be great! I'd like to make a mini mmo gamejam game sometime
Awesome creators. Hopefully supports large scale unit Navigation and Pathfinding synchronisation.
You can ask them in their Discord, they're very active there! -M
@@bitemegames We are indeed! Hop on and we can discuss any features you're interested in :)
great, i'll take a look.
The pocket dimensions are called instances. Which can be done rather cheaply by adding warp to map functionality or a constructor function to build and or store a map, which will still require a warp to map function.(Mostly for private instances) Public instances could simply be a warp to a separate map, you'd end up having everything on one big map as mentioned which is a bit cheap. The benefits is of instancing is it can diminish congestion issues. The instancing could also be used akin to a channel on a server to make multiple instances of the the same map(area). Tracking and loading the necessary assets/entities based on their location and map I.D and instance I.D.
Did they ever hear of Atavism? Does the same thing plus also in engine game play... it's a Unity asset only.
9:27… call it inception… a dream within a dream, or in his case, a pocket dimension in your main world.
Nice, maybe my next game will be an mmo then lol
Looks amazing, also looks useful for any online MP game even at lower scale.
Indeed, and we're doing more work on the daily to make this an even bigger part of what we offer!
now i need someone to make an indie version of old maplestory ive been waiting for years
Tech is not a problem, keeping the MMO "alive" is.
No one wants to play a dead game, and 5.000 players online are considered dead...
Not if those 5000 players are all online in a single shared world that feels full of life when you play it.
I think expectations need adjusted in the mmo world if indies come onto the scene.
@@PeterHyder Agreed, and the whole reason I set up Planetary is to try and get an Indie MMO scene to exist!
MMO is not a market that should be saturated. The entire idea of MMOs is that they're a large united virtual world that everyone partakes in. The idea of having many small indie ones doesn't make any sense and is very counter-productive.
I couldn't disagree more, the games industry is huge and growing fast. Indie MMOs could easily capture a slice of that huge pie and with much more variety and creativity, they can do to MMOs what they did to the rest of the industry and make it far more interesting and creative!
Would love to see something like this working with Ursina
Limit theory was a really interesting concept .. but ultimately failed on the perfectionism of the creator where he rewrote the tech multiple times.
I wonder if you could just use this over other Netcode implementations like UnityNGO and Mirror
You can probably just head on over to their discord and ask them! -M
Yeah, this should work totally in place of UnityNGO, Mirror and such!
Interesting
Oh so this is like atavism
Day 11 of asking for Melon-Pan tier list.
first