This is NOT FSR 3. It's better! But also worse! AMD Fluid Motion Frames
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024
- AMD's Fluid Motion Frames (AFMF) is not quite FSR3. Instead of needing integration into individual games, it runs at the driver level to nearly double your FPS in nearly any DX11 or DX12 game, and is available now in a preview driver for AMD's RX 7000 series GPUs. However, it comes with some serious drawbacks. Firstly, it simply disables itself on any quick mouse (or controller) movements. Which makes it somewhat useless. Secondly, it currently is not compatible with vsync or HDR. It also adds some latency. Since it does not have access to game data like motion vectors (which FSR3 does) it also may not produce as good of an image, especially during quick motion, which is likely the reason why they disable it on fast mouse movement.
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this seems like something that would be amazing for MMO's for those that want a smooth experience but often get cpu bottlenecked when lots of other players are nearby
I was thinking the same for something like BG3.
In act 3, not matter your cpu the game drops into the 50s. It is not a fast paced game being turn based so I think 50fps doubled and capped to 100fps would be awesome.
It doesnt work if the game is not in full screen. It canot work on wow as it is window or borderless window.
@@PyromancerRift So how do you think AFMF can even work on DX12 games, since there's *no* exclusive fullscreen mode in DX12? 🙃
@@galandilvogler8577 lol
@@TheIndulgersif its turn based isn't 50 fps more than enough? Responsiveness doesn't increase so attacks that require quick reactions don't benefit
In games that support Anti-Lag+ there's a latency tool that gets activated while pressing ALT+SHIFT+L several times. It will show you the actual PC latency instead of just the FrameGen latency.
Just so you know, in case you test this in games like TW3.
Not sure if it's a 7000 series feature only but when I try to do that all I see is a green thing on top left side of my screen or maybe the game is not supported, it's starfield
@@vapecat1982Overwatch is a supported game for Anti-Lag+ but the overlay doesn't work, so it's not just you. I believe the overlay is only for RX 7000. I wonder if AMDs OCAT tool could help.
@@vapecat1982 Anti-Lag+ and the latency monitor are exclusive to RDNA3.
@@vapecat1982 That overlay can be enabled only if AntiLag+ is enabled in Adrenalin (either globally or in a specific game), so yeah, you need an RDNA3 GPU to use it.
I'm mostly excited what Fluid Motion Frames could do to a device like the Steam Deck. If there's a driver-level preset for an extremely even 30fps > 60fps, hopefully resulting in latency similar to double buffer vsync. that would be AMAZING, especially for games that aren't first person. I'm thinking about things such as racing games, fighting games, strategy/adventure/RPG games such as Tunic, Baldur's Gate III etc. Games that don't use a lot of camera movement. You could get really smooth motion and synced 60fps while also drawing very little power, saving battery life. I really like the prospect of something like that.
Would be interesting to see but AMD have already said that you need 60fps plus to get the best use out of it, 30fps might be doable but I suspect it won't play that well, after all, just like the resolution, the lower you go on the frame rate, the less FSR has to play with and the worse the results will be.
With that said, it will be interesting to see where the sweet spot is, will it work alright at 40fps, 50fps? We'll have to wait and see it being tested, but I think 30fps and getting good results might be asking a bit too much.
Another factor is that it could depend on the style of game, faster pace games will likely not look that great unless your base frame rate is high enough, slower pace games might fare better at lower frame rates, but unfortunately, where Steam Deck will need it the most is on fast pace games and 30fps to really shine and we'll have to see how well it handles that, but I'm not expecting much.
Personally, I think going from 60fps to 120fps or in-between with VRR is where it will really shine, but it is a preview, so it might get better with time.
I’d honestly like to see an option to keep FMF running even during fast camera movement. Perhaps in some cases, or for some people that’d be better than the massive framerate swings. If nothing else it’d be interesting to test.
Overall, it’s definitely not a game changing feature yet, but it seems like it could have some uses in more slower paced games. Maybe Baldur’s gate to alleviate some of the CPU bottleneck issues in the city of act 3, or something like flight sim could be good use cases. Hopefully it will improve in the future as well.
Not sure what is happening to him here. I tried it in CONTROL 1440P Ultra with RT. Base FPS before turning on FMF was 80 fps. Started to average about 135+ fps even when panning. No crazy dipping at all but I will try it again. Or put my money where my mouth is and test it myself.
I think combining FMF with Radeon boost at the same time might be a better experience. Radeon boost reduces the shading rate with fast mouse movement to increase FPS. So when FMF drops, boost picks up and vice versa.
@@F1neW1neits only happening in cyberbug 2077 i have seen a video of starfield getting from 40s to 100s without dips when panning
He spent like the whole video saying that. It's the point of the video.
It probably looks like crazy motion blur which equates to just mush. I'm sure if it didn't look terrible they would have activated it. It's not like they implemented the deactivation before they gave the feature a hard look as is.
AMD doing this without any dedicated hardware is truly amazing. Game consoles, handheld consoles and almost every PC will benefit from this. Definitely a smart move from AMD to keep brands under their ecosystem. AMD really proves that anything can be made on software-level and I'm sure it will get so much better in the future. In fact, AMD engineers work double time compared to Nvidia's considering hardware handicap.
Yes sir!! AMD is showing that team green is being very greedy locking people out of the latest software unless they upgrade
@@bryanyokofich5021yessir
Can't give AMD too much credit for locking ppl out of stuff as Anti-Lag+ is only available on 7000 series GPU's at the moment. 😅@@bryanyokofich5021
They're doing it, but not doing it well...
DLSS 3.5 with path tracing lowkey wipes the floor with fsr 3. I say this as someone who owns a 7900xt. Considering switching to 4080 or 4070 ti cause of this plus tired of constant crashes. It's really the crashes that kill it completely for me and my friends who use amd. Never had fatal driver issues with nvidia.
I've seen a couple people post videos about this but as always, yours is the definitive one that gives me the details I seek. Thank you -David- Daniel
Cough Cough.....DANIEL !!!
Nice one David ☺️
@@TheFob34 Haha I just woke up, that's too great I'm keeping it that way, I'm sure David will understand
The problem here could be "fixed" by radeon boost. That's automatically enabled on hypr-rx profile for supported games.
However, motion vectors can be rebuilt from the frame buffer.
They will track "pixels" (or better, blocks of different sizes, e.g. 4x4, 8x8, etc.) as it's done in video encoders. It's not perfect but it works and it is also the reason why when moving the mouse too fast the AFMF gets disabled: motion vectors get out of range (tracked pixels get outside the picture area)
AFMF turning off isn't mouse input based, but what happens on-screen. Just stand close to a wall and pop in and out, and the frame drops, where it won't if you do the same strafing motion without the wall obscuring the view.
Hopefully they'll make it a bit more advanced so it does work during these actions, because that's where it's needed the most.
I’ve waited for this Daniel Owen’s video ever since his last video yesterday. Thank you.
That is where VR technology should come in to play. Asynchronous reprojection. I would not be surprised if this eventually going to be the "next big thing" in gpu performance. Linus already did a video about it. It beats this Fluid motion by a lot.
Thats not how Asynchronous reprojection works. As the name implies, it displays the image 2 twice (duplicate the same frame, not interpolate or generate) for the head movement to feel smooth. If the game run at 30fps, it wont feels like 60 but 30 with your head movement and/or controller movement feels 60. Never mislead vr tech with flat screens tech cuz 90% of the time its not because vr dev arz too dumb to add 5yo flat screen tech in their game. Its just never the same thing and just uneducated people not understanding what each tech actually does.
@@Ast0sH From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Asynchronous reprojection is a class of computer graphics technologies aimed ensuring a virtual reality headset's responsiveness to user motion even when the GPU isn't able to keep up with the headset's target frame rate.[1] Reprojection involves the headset's driver taking one or multiple previously rendered frames and using newer motion information from the headset's sensors to extrapolate (often referred to as "reprojecting" or "warping") the previous frame into a prediction of what a normally rendered frame would look like.
@@1mrstench or maybe you would take 3sec to check how the technology actually work. Also half of your answer is what i said with some useless words to inflate your answer (maybe to look smarter? Idk) and the rest just doesn't mean anything. As a dev, people like you are just daily deals. Plz check how things works before answering
@@1mrstench He might not have worded it well but that's what AstOsH was saying. There is no interpolation between frame n & frame n + 1, it's just frame n & frame n from another view. Kind of like how in some games animation sometimes runs at 30fps (distant enemies etc) but the game runs at 60fps.
@@1mrstench Maybe not quote from a wikipedia page? smh
Before watching your videos I didn't realize that watching a capture of a high refresh rate monitor in a 60fps TH-cam video was causing "stuttering" and screen tearing. After understanding this I pulled the trigger on my 6800 and I am so happy with it. I got a powerful 16gb card for $350. The best part is I have had zero issues with drivers or anything like that. It's been flawless. So stoked
Solid choice. I think that is one of the best value cards you can buy right now.
350$? When did they cost so little?
@@inqizzo since they released the 7000 series
could be a card from the used market.
$350?!! OMFG!!
Wow! Daniel Owen, first of the big youtube personalities to put new AMD features to the test. Thank you Daniel!
I took a look at this last night. Not really usable unless you have a good base FPS but as long as you dont make sudden movements it can work alright. Need to look into it more. I did briefly check TLOU Part 1 which is actually in the supported games list for AFMF in the release notes and in there it works much better, obviously its a more cinematic game.
Witcher 3 it works great. I think it's basically only working properly on the HYPR RX tuned games that have anti lag +. Cyberpunk there are issues with it but that wasn't on the game list yet. On the Witcher 3 I felt a lot smoother and didn't see any image break up
@@RJTHEGAMEIt probably works better with 3rd person games
The reason it works better there is because that game supports AL+ which makes the technology much more usable, as AFMF doesn't have any latency reduction tech built into it like FSR 3
@@Hybred Radeon 7000 has Anti Lag+ in the drivers, which is better than regular Anti Lag for older AMD cards.
@@Hybred Interesting👍
Radeon boost will make any issue's you have with fluid motion frames in motion much less noticeable. It's build for that specific purpose.
Not when you're CPU bound, which is when FrameGen works the best.
@@MaxIronsThird True, but unless you play e-sports games (where frame gen is just useless), or Jedi Survival launch edition, then it's unlikely you'll be CPU bound in any AAA game.
@@janbenes3165Baldur's Gate 3 can barely hold 40fps in some areas in Act3 with the 13900k and 7800X3D(the fastest gaming CPUs around), Starfield has lows reaching the 70s with the i9 and can drop to the 60's with the R7 3D model, meanwhile my 3600 can drop to around 25fps in BG3 and 33fps in Starfield, we will need 6 months to start seeing these two games get considerably better CPU performance and that is bc they'll properly support the games for a while, like what happened to CP77, but that was more about bugs and console performance.
Also like you said, UE games don't use over 10 threads that well, so if you have an 8Core part, might as well disable Hyper threading, so you can get better clock speeds.
Jedi Survivors seems like will be broken in that department forever since EA doesn't care, same for the Dead Space remake.
I know it's a lot of effort, but it is somewhat possible to show the artifacts of FSR3 in a TH-cam video. You'll have to capture at 120 or more FPS however and do some postproduction magic such as slow the footage down by a factor of two, capture still frames, or purposefully tell the audience to watch the video at 2x the speed (effectively doubling the framerate of the video playback).
Smart suggestion 😊
I think playing at 2x speed makes the video play every other frame, rather than playing twice as fast
Hardware Unboxed did something like that when testing Nvidia DLSS frame generation a while ago. Slowing the playback of full frame capture. Of course one needs to be able to capture full frame rate at high frame rates. Non trivial as Digital Foundry discussed in at least one video I watched.
I guess that works but also 30 to 60 would as well, just a quality difference. If it was that way you could also pause the video and more easily see it. However you cannot get double the frame rate on a TH-cam video by increasing the speed, it will still cap it to 60fps as far as I know, you’d need to watch it in a media player for that to work.
@@Fadexz
So downloading and watching on MX player will do the trick.
AFMF does not lower fps due to mouse movement or controller movement, it instead uses the ingame camera to dynamically change the fps. AFMF is also works on older dx9 games by using dgvoodoo2 to convert them into dx11 or dx12 games and it works flawlessly. Fps locked games seem to gain the best benefit imo because they tend to stay at a stable 60 which equals to 120fps with framegen. The game that has benefitted most from framegen is DMC3 imo, practically 120fps in all scenes because of the static camera and the combat becomes really smooth.
I tried it on forspoken
On my 3080s n my 7900xtx
Looks good
Im impressed
Thanks AMD for being open source
does it drop frames when you move your camera like in cyberpunk
amd losers
@@IstyManame no the one implemented in forspoken is a FSR3 so it works all the time when you're playing, this one is just an addon that isn't implemented in the game.
@@IstyManame the fsr in this video is a beta driver version for 7000 cards, normal fsr3 implementation like in forspoken works fine
@IstyManame I haven't tried the driver one yet.
I will do that when I get off work.
Like the ppl above said
Fsr works all the time in forspoken
If u have steam just download the demo yourself an try it out.
Amd had the opportunity to release fsr3 with starfield but once again... It's AMD
You would probably complain if AMD released it two months ago. 🤣
god knows what Todd is doing... It just works!!
Yes, because they can just break into Bethesda headquarters and force them to put it into the game under the threat of violence, I guess. How do you think any of this works?
The worst part is, by the time it's actually in Starfield you'll complain that it's not in BG3 or the new Spider-Man or some other game, because you don't actually give a shit, you just like complaining.
Fsr 3 was not ready for release with starfield launch
Starfield promised but still doesn't have DLSS, even though an amateur modder was able to add it within 2 hours of the game's launch. Bethesda is just lazy AF
I found with testing FSR 3 on Forspoken with a 3080Ti, is pretty much the same conclusion you came to about shooting for 120fps in order to have a good experience. When the game runs below 65FPS without frame-gen on, then I turned on frame-gen, I get a lot of stutters @100FPS+, but when I optimize the game to get 65-70fps, then turn on frame-gen and get 110-120FPS, it works as intended and is visually super smooth.
Tbh I dont know if forspoken is a good testing ground.
This game is pretty broken and act weird even without FG on. Normal 60 fps feels way less smooth than 60 fps cap in other games. Vsync ON sometimes works as intendent and sometimes causes stuttering (i set my monitor Hz to 75, turn vsync on and my framerate was above 90 without frame gen).
I just dont trust this title. When I turn on FG I cant tell if its FG problem or this game just acting weird.
One thing I can tell for sure is that image quality is really good.
FSR3 FG is VERY promising and im sure its going to be amazing
Can I ask what monitor you are using, is it a 120hz monitor, does it have g-sync? This could be as simple as a v-sync OFF issue or what I think is a monitor refresh rate issue. What I mean is if you're hitting a solid 60fps, your 120hz monitor should be smooth because monitors process frames better if the numbers are 1:1 or doubled. Basically 60 or ideally 120 fps in-game (natively, no frame gen) should be the smoothest experience for you with a 120hz non g-sync monitor, anything that goes under 60fps will give you choppy, stuttery frames.
Bro I get no stutters. I'm running maxed out settings and get 56 fps before fsr and frame gen. After I'm getting 130. All the stutters complaints is bullshit or user error.
@@TheRedRaven_ I have an AMD card and 165 Hz monitor with full FreeSync/G-Sync support. Dynamic sync is superior to vsync so im not using the second one often. I read that FG works better with vsync on so I wanted to turn it on but I got way under my monitors refresh rate in forspoken 2k ultra (115 with FG no upscaling) and I wanted to check if i can make it work in the scenarios when I wont be able to reach 165. So I set my monitor rr to 100Hz and vsync was working awful if working at all (even without frame gen on lower resolution).
I though it might be issue with custom refresh rate in my monitor however I checked it out in Cyberpunk, Plague Tale and Far Cry 6 and vsync was working there as intended.
In Forspoken I have a problem with vsync not working properly, I have weird frames pacing (even with vsync off, FG off), my drivers resets to default every time I launch the game, game ignores frame cap set on a driver level.
Worth to mention, all these are issues that I never had in any other game
@@bartoszgotlib2658 Yeah that's very strange, the first thing I would of said is to change the refresh rate of your monitor so you can get closer to your target FPS but it looks like you already tried that and you're also saying you have a free/G-sync monitor so.....beats me honestly. At this point it looks like this is more likely a bug issue. Did you try flipping the v-sync option on/off in the in-game settings? And just to clarify, are you talking about v-sync "on" at the AMD driver level settings?
I think this is really game dependent whether or not it works well. I have been using it for Starfield where there are no vehicles. For players who use a controller for single player games, the lag is almost unnoticeable. On a mouse you can definitely feel some input lag though. I am on the 7900 XTX. There is an artifact on the crosshair with duplication while spinning, but other than that its pretty solid. Especially in areas with high (120+fps + FG to 240+) fps, it feels very smooth. I am actually preferring AMD Fluid Motion frames in Starfield even with a mouse vs playing without it. Im pretty impressed that the driver implementation is actually working without many artifacts. I do hope that FSR3 gets implemented in many games though.
😂😂 bullshit, you need to get your eyes checked.
I can see this being useful in city skylines and demanding games like those that don't really need you moving the mouse much
i agree. A game like that is also likely to be CPU limited, and it would allow high frame rate in those scenarios.
I can imagine racing games, RTS games, diablo, path of exile etc. These games are preety much perfect for a feature like that. Still I think they should just give an option to disable that fps drop while moving the camera, it probably would create a lot of artifacts, but still not giving an option like that seems silly, when code for interpolation is already there. Cheers.
The disabling on camera movement is actually really weird decision because that makes the feature give you extremely unstable framerate.
If fps is constantly jumping between 50 and 90fps it feels worse than playing at somewhat locked 50fps
RTS? Response time is really important when scrolling the screen, selecting unity, etc in like sc2
@@EmilKlingberg 90 percent of people play rts games casually. Which means that additional 20ms of delay won't be a problem. As far as I'm concerned frame generation itself isn't aimed towards competitive gamers or gamers that prefer latency over visual smoothness anyway. Those people shouldn't even look at the tech as something viable it actually puts them at the disadvantage.
I'd like to see AFMF on older games locked to 60fps like Dark Souls 3. Please do it teacher Dan!
Modders should figure this out and share to others on how to do it on any game!
Ultra modded skyrim. Holy molly it's so CPU bottlenecked that not even a 4090 can stretch it's legs there. This would be perfect for that.
Yup it works fine. Any fps capped game can be bypassed with AFMF
@@riczz4641 I think if modders are able to add FSR3 FG to Skyrim and Fallout 4 that would be a game changer. AFMF maybe not so much because of the mouse issues and generic, non-motion vector usage of it all. I think it'd be even cooler if FG was somehow decoupled from upscaling tech so people could use it without TAA or with DLSS/XeSS if they want.
Dark Souls 3 doesn't have locked fps and you can play at 144fps (or maybe more) without any bugs and even online (you get banned and put into banned only server) .
I was actually pleasantly surprised to get frame gen on forspoken. That coupled with the nativeAA fsr3 option make the game look amazing and run very smoothly
I tried it on my 4070 but the latency is so jarring
Yeah currently it seems to turn off Nvidia Reflex, try to force it manually and not through the game.
Who cares about forespoken
the fact that AMD is getting ppl to play Forspoken is such a legendary feat
@@CersionX😂 bro i do care at least i paid less for AMD and i get a lot of spoil and better care unlike you with next gen of Nvidia you will be neglected
i think they should integrate Radeon boost with fluid motion, so when you do a fast turn the frame rate of the boost compensate for AFMF turning off.
You can enable both
Hopefully they will improve it for lower base framerate, atleast 30 and make it available for low-mid range cards. Because the only realistic use case for this is to help achieve monitor refresh rate atleast 60 if the game is too demanding and dont want to sacrifice graphics at 1440p or 4k
Exactly. It seems this tech is limited to the niched audience who are using 120hz monitors and beyond. The far majority still uses monitors (or in my case, TV screens) who are set at 60hz. Let's see how things are going to evolve, this is a early tech, both Nvidia and AMD are still improving things. But like you said, the most useful scenario is just that, to use "frame generation" for demanding games that are barely running at 30fps, you sacrifice a little bit of input delay to make it run at 60fps. If the lag is too severe, this will be pointless for action games, racing, fighting, etc.. but for everything else that does not overly rely on fluidity, it can be awesome (again, another niche, Total War Warhammer "3" for example, this game would benefit a lot). Hope the lag is not bothersome, they can improve the milliseconds with time
I tested FSR 3 last night in forspoken and when it is working properly it's great. The problem i came across after about 30 minutes of playing was the fps suddenly tanking causing the game to chug for no apparent reason. I think it was something to do with settings that I had though.
No it has nothing to do with your settings. The feature is just not very well optimized at the moment. You could call it bad also.
This is going to be part of hypr-rx. Supposed to have Radeon boost basically pick up where it leaves off. Boost reduces resolution when you move quickly. When everything is on you’ll get a fuzzier game that still looks good sometimes and plays on worse hardware supposedly.
Edit: Here's a second video exploring the tech in another game (not first person, using controller, more carefully controlling for base framerate). th-cam.com/video/jWk8AkBBaqA/w-d-xo.html
Original: Some comments are saying Cyberpunk is not a "supported game" for this tech. The driver notes specifically say that it can be used on any DX11 or DX12 game and even specifically list Cyberpunk as an example. The "supported" list people are referring to seems to just be games that can auto-enable AFMF as part of a HYPR-RX profile. Here's the direct quote from the driver notes:
"AFMF may be enabled for any DirectX11 and 12 title such as Cyberpunk 2077 using the per-app settings within AMD Software: Adrenalin Edition™.
AFMF can be automatically enabled using HYPR-RX or using the Global Graphics Settings toggle for these select titles;
A Plague Tale - Requiem Borderlands 3 Control Dead Space
Deep Rock Galactic Dying Light 2 Far Cry 6 Ghostwire: Tokyo
Hitman 3 Hogwarts Legacy Horizon Zero Dawn™ Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition
Red Dead Redemption 2 Resident Evil 3 Resident Evil 4 Shadow Of The Tomb Raider
Star Wars Jedi: Survivor™ Starfield The Last of Us™ Part 1 The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt"
you say that vrr does not kick in when using fsr 3 frame generation. maybe its because of your TV. i use a lg c2, and on my tv the vrr kicks in all the time, even its not at 120 fps. i never had tearing or somtin when using fsr 3 fg even when framerate is under 120 hz. so you should be more carefull with claims like that.
@@mal-avcisi9783 I'm currently playing Immortals of Aveum on my 7900 XTX to get more hands on time with FSR3, I can confirm that my LG C1 overlay shows a locked 119FPS when I kick on frame gen at settings that only achieve below 120 fps. So the game is running in the 70 to 90 fps range, but the TV reports 119 with free sync pro premium. This is true with Vsync toggled both on and off. And this is on an AMD GPU, when my previous video was using an Nvidia GPU, so it rules out that possibility. When I turn off frame gen, the TV reports accurate VRR fps numbers. A google search showed I am not the only person experiencing this behavior, so it isn't just my TV. I suppose I can't confirm it works this way for everyone though, and perhaps something is working differently for you.
i am using a 4080, i tested immortals of aveum, and forsaken demo. both worken with fsr3 fg with vrr kicking in even its under 120 fps. never saw any tearing. i watched very carefully. maybe vrr has some different behaviour between lg c2 and c1. just wanted to let you know@@danielowentech
It is a preview and it is only compatible in SDR. I tried it in The Last of Us at 2160p and the drivers are unoptimized so I was at 55FPS with an XTX. I simply reinstalled the latest drivers and my framerate was back at 75FPS. For now, just don't bother.
This is a working tech demo that wasn't even marketed previously. You're disappointed that there is a potentially game changing "tech demo" that works right now?
If this was Nvidia you'd probably be singing praises, looking back at all the RTX hype when 2000 series launched. Good luck playing Cyberpunk fluidly with a 2060 or even a 2080 Ti.
Sinceramente para ser algo ejecutado por controlador me parece genial, ojalá la tecnología siga avanzando y salga también para la serie 6000, pero es algo preocupante, todas las tecnologías actuales exclusivas de amd sólo han salido para su serie 7000 :\
Ha salido ya para la serie 6000 desde el driver
Can you enable it with AMD Boost (thing that reduce rendering resolution on mouse movement)? Maybe this combination could provide more consistent fps?
Exactly my thoughts, Daniel pls try this
There is HiAlgo Boost which basically does the same
I'm sick of all this software nonsense. It's all more marketing than tech. The best part of higher frame rate is less input lag and more clarity during rapid motion. This does nothing for that. It's just a fake way to make the fps number go up.
Its not only that. It makes games look smoother but not feel smoother its weird i know but once u try It for some time u realise It does exactly that
great job dude. keep it up! you're one of my favourite benchmark youtubers im coming back to more and more often.... :)
Hey Daniel, AFMF is a bit buggy right now. When you see 100% Micro Stutter rate on the metrics, then it's bugged, and it's not generating frames correctly.
You can fix it by turning it off and on again. But it will break again if you get stutters or go into menus where a large framerate difference occurs.
Note that HDR does not work when AFMF is on, i was messing around with this yesterday, and thats something that i had noted down
Yeah he mentions that in the description
Thanks for testing this! So much misinformation out there. Nice to have someone who knows what they’re talking about give their analysis.
Thank you for clearing thus up. I thought I was going crazy with my top end rig.
Looks great! Most people like myself who actual enjoy just gaming don’t stand around testing everything or slow things down massively and zoom in 1000% like digital foundry! :)
I tried it in Forza Motorsport 2023 and my frames went from 130ish to 240ish fps. I thought i ws experiencing screen tear due to my monitor refresh rate not keeping up. Grat review now i know is not my monitor.
In its current state, I think it will work really well in games that doesn’t need sudden camera movements like in sports games such as FIFA
But the additional latency...
This is not very usable in its current state. 25ms of extra latency is horrible. It is also plagued with non-stop micro-stutters.
Excited for this beta to release, hopefully get some more performance from my 7900xtx with ray tracing 4K
you'll get more software-generated frames (interpolated) depending on the base fps the XTX can render, FSR3 cannot help the latter though.
Imo, an API for accessing motion vectors and UI layer (because it needs to be separated from the upscaling process) would be great for AMD, Nvidia or the community to mod in .dlls of upscalers and frame gen
it already exists, and is called FSR or DLSS
That is what FSR is. lol
generation for those who have the game running at a stable 60 fps and does not fall below, do not even try to turn it on even at 55 fps, there will be a strong delay and a feeling as if you are playing at 30 fps. Use fsr 3, it has been modified and is now almost as good as dlss
But fsr 3 is only out on two games. Two that nearly nobody actually play, on top of that
Ok, so I would like an in depth explanation of lag, anti-lag, anti-lag+, what they do and how they are different. I am having a hard time finding something specific to this. And you make great quality in depth content that speaks to the lay man. I would also VERY MUCH appreciate. If you could make a video or clarify this for me. In your FSR3 announcement video you spoke about having a good solid base fps before turning on frame generation. I also read that in the AMD notes. I assume this goes for Nvidia as well. However I think it is going to be something that will be glossed over by many other content creators. And having a firm dedicated video about this would be a great resource to have. I would very much like to know specifically. Having a "good base frame rate". Does that pertain to native resolution only. Or does this include up-scaling? I would like to see examples that you test seeing as I only have a 6800XT and do not wish to buy either Forspoken or Aveum lol. So I cannot test this myself. I know I'm convoluting things. So let me recap. 1) What is the benefit, definition, and differences of anti-lag type technologies. 2) Does the base frame rate before frame generation only pertain to native. Or does it take into account up-scaling? Thank you! Keep up the good work!
amd also working on anti lag + pro ultra /s
This would be perfect for VR honestly, upscaling 60 fps to 120 for my quest 3 would be great.
Tnx for information! Is ther any info about rx 6000 series support?
this is all i've been into all day
FMF is a game changer imo. Even in beta, you can see the potential. The problem I'm having is that it seemingly doesn't yet work with HDR. I pick HDR everyday, but this is cool tech.
Driver release notes state it doesn't work with HDR and doesn't work with Vsync. Not working with HDR sucks, so I hope they can fix that as the potential use case I was looking at was playing at 4k on my HDR TV.
I don't think anyone will be moving the mouse that super fast.. when gaming. The normal "fast" movements don't drop the fps ;) so, no need to complain peops
I see this as being great for a "Locked 60 FPS" console port, as then you can get more FPS than you ever could before without needing to find mods and without needing to actually have double the required GPU and CPU resources. Additionally, those games would be built around controller input, so would be less likely to drop out of the mode due to fast motion.
Additionally, games that never had motion vectors would also benefit, including 2d-(ish) games, as well as any emulator, where even if there was motion data, an FSR3 / DLSS3 implementation built into the emulator might have no easy way to get at it.
This will only get better with time
AMD recomends not using it unless you are already at 70 fps before turning it on for 1440P and above. That could explain some of that behaviour. You should expect issues when base is below 70 I think. From the driver description... AFMF features an activity monitor similar to AMD Radeon Super Resolution to confirm the frame generation status using AMD Software: Adrenalin Edition™’s in-game overlay (use the default hotkey of Alt-R for the fullscreen overlay, or Alt-Z for the sidebar overlay). AFMF is recommended to be enabled for games running at a minimum fps of 55 FPS for 1080p displays, and 70 FPS for 1440p or above displays. AFMF adds frame generation technology to boost FPS outside of the game’s engine. To see the resulting FPS, use the AMD Software Performance Metrics Overlay. Support for third-party performance monitoring tools is not available at this moment.
if you already get 70 fps on Cyberpunk at native 1440p then yeah, the problem is getting a 7900XTX to achieve 70 fps at native 1440p with any kind of proper ray-tracing enabled on a stock TDP card, with reflections enabled I've seen modded XTX's go all the way to 500 wats just to run shy of 60 fps.
if you had 70 fps why turn it on
So it only works if the game is already achieving 70fps? Well... the tech is almost pointless tho, it will only prove beneficial for people who are using 120hz monitors and beyond (a niched audience). For everyone else who are saving money with 60hz, it will make no difference
No, it has nothing to do with that. Like Daniel stated in the video, at the moment AFMF in Cyberpunk is implemented through the driver level so it has no access to motion vectors therefore it would have difficult time to maintain picture quality at fast movement speed so AFMF gets disabled for those periods of time when you have fast mouse movement. It constantly gets turned on and off depending on that. When we get AFMF that is manually implemented into individual games, in this example cyberpunk, there will be no such problem.
@@RRRRRRRRR33same with DLSS3. You don't want to activate it when baseline FPS is low. Nvidia doesn't talk much about it, but this discussion already happened.
People, frame interpolation isn't some magical drawing box. It needs data. Higher resolution - more pixels to correct onto, higher base FPS recommended (up to some limit).
Lower base FPS - higher latency as technology requires at least 2 frames to interpolate from.
Also 70 FPS is still kinda trash, just little better than 60. You want to have 120+ or at least 90+
Look at the amount of choices we have on Cyberpunk PC on how the game handles the frames! What a great time to be a gamer! All hail the free market!
That thick frame-time graph with alternating slow and fast frames is hinting at the visible stuttering when the camera is panning. FMF needs more tuning I guess.
Looks neat. I wonder if this tech works for games that usually don't reach the 60fps (like Total War Warhammer "3" for example, even on powerful machines this game drops to bellow 60), so let's say you run the game at 40fps, then you double it to 80fps, but use v-sinc to stabilize that at 60fps... that would be the dream scenario. Or people who are using those monitors with crazy high refresh rate, sync tech and so on, they can go over 100fps
Even when you were swinging the mouse as fast as you ever would in normal gameplay the framerate was still ≈50-60fps, which is still a SIGNIFICANT boost over the ≈40-45fps of playing without FMF enabled! I feel like this video is overly critical and missing the forest for the trees on this one. 🤷
This feature is awsome IMO, this makes everyone see what an FSR3 implimention in a game would give them, AKA make an insentive for the DEV`s to impliment it
fluid "motion" that disables itself when there's motion haha 😆
hope this improves because the idea is sick!
AMD needs to get FSR 3 working with VRR, pronto. It's the biggest downside of it right now, in an otherwise very close technology to DLSS 3 frame gen.
why you didnt buy a geforce?
@@optimalsettings does a 20 or 30 series geforce have frame gen ?
@@georgwarhead2801 no. what does this question has to do with it? buy a 4090 and enjoy vr or play rasterized games with an amd.
They should add an option to force it on even on big camera changes.
I think the Reshade devs are going to fix this. Reshade can already generate motion vectors on any games + FSR3 is I think open source
Reshade FSR3 would be dope
This isn't FSR3, its FMF. All games theoretically could support FMF, but only games with support could have FSR3 no matter what Reshade does.
They do have Radeon Boost, which lowers resolution on camera movement. Instead of applying it during mouse movement, they could apply it when Fluid Frames is disabled.
@@Wobbothe3rd Eh, DLSS frame generation was injected into multiple games already via mods (Skyrim for example). I'm sure you can do the same with FSR frame gen.
If it generates higher resolution frame for 20% less performance,
it can show these generated frames while creating additional frames resulting in less frame drops
So far after playing for 3 hours today I am loving the FS3 update in Forspoken! I have all settings cranked up on a 5600x and 6700xt @1440p. Running so smooth and no issues.
Too bad the game is shite
There's a lot of room for improvement, and considering how early it released relative to their official time frame (which was Q1 2024), I think there's a lot to come, including HDR support. I've recently tried Forspoken again, now with FreeSync completely disabled directly on my monitor and with a base fps of 40-50, everything on maximum + RT enabled on my RX 6800, FSR3 FG is delivering twice the framerate (80-100) and it's indeed smoother, this technology sounds promising. I hope AMD bring driver-level AFMF to previous generation and improve the Upscaling quality.
Also, in games like Cyberpunk 2077 which has a lot of ghosting even on native with TAA, AFMF will make it worse, I would like to see it in games like Starfield which also has support for Anti-Lag+ and do not have this weird ghosting that CP2077 does.
I would not personally use AFMF or FSR3 FG on Cyberpunk if I can get 50-60fps, despite the fact that FSR3 FG can improve smoothness and V-Sync + FG w/o FreeSync is smoother than FreeSync without FG, I still think FreeSync is better just because the visual problems like ghosting are not being magnified by the interpolation, and FreeSync gives a better responsiveness than V-Sync on lower framerates.
Thx for the video;
now possible with radeon 6000 series ;) using preview drivers
I wonder if it’s less sensitive to mouse movement with a higher base frame rate? The gaps between frame are bigger at low frame rates like 40, but if you’re already at 80fps and interpolating to 160fps those gaps would be smaller and maybe it could get away with not disabling as soon with mouse movement?
This also seems like it would pair well with Radeon boost which lowers resolution during fast camera movement, that would help offset the fps loss that occurs when FMF turns off while the camera is quickly moving.
I was messing with it yesterday on my 7900XT and using fluid motion with anti lag and Boost at 1440p max settings with path tracing on was definitely playable (also with FSR on Balanced). It certainly had artifacts and the 70-80fps I was getting didn't feel as smooth as "real" 70-80fps but if I take fluid motion off it was absolutely not playable with those settings.
This feature gets you from 70fps to your monitors full refresh rate. Hence fluid motion frames
i activate this afmf on resident evil 4 and the result is amazing, I couldn’t see any visible artifacts and as it is a game that doesn't have much movement, and there are rare moments when AFMF is deactivated.
i'm using a 7900 xtx, 1440p (180% resolution) - 160-230 fps with afmf.
So far my biggest downside is not being able to limit the framerate in any way. It does work in every game but it is NOT a smooth experience when the FPS goes above my monitors 165hz into the 300s and there's a lot of tearing and fluctuations happening. I'm using a 7900xt and 1440p, no way to get the frames under control.
hmm thats interesting. I also have a 7900xt and 1440p 165hz refresh rate. My fake frames are always over the 165hz refresh rate but its smooth as butter and im not getting any screen tearing at all even in the 300s.
U can limit framerate in driver.
@@kalidaecooper5106 What brand is your monitor? I think my problem is due to my LG 27 GP850's FreeSync range that must be below its refresh rate but apparently no third party software is able to limit the fake frames and even AMD's software says vsync and frame limiter won't work when AFMF is enabled.
@@Puyols37 I have a ultrawide Samsung G5 monitor. It has Freesync premium so im not sure if that makes a difference.
I've played cyberpunk for 2 days now. It's ok if upscaled from 40fps, cool from 50fps and becomes great over 60fps. On my xt it means 1080p xessq on pt with mod. I've played in 4k and then in 1080p+pt. Just keep going back and forth and what am I seeing is - both ways are out of this world amazing.
Unfortunately i could not get the preview drivers to work for me, but we need more competition for Nvidia so i hope it turns out to be a killer feature at the end
what's cool is that you can enable hyper rx and get FSR 3 level performance without it actually having FSR 3 built into the game. granted it's not going to look AMAZING or anything, still that's a pretty good deal.
I think they need to give us a slider that allows us to adjust the sensitivity for when the fake frames disable. Ik they do it for image quality reasons but it feels a bit too sensitive & makes the tech pointless. Some people may prefer to deal with some artifacts & retain the smoothness & strike their own balance, they should let us fine tune it
people can be narrow minded, they say that this is useless, well no, PC gaming have A LOT of heavy taxing games, I myself play a lot of TOTAL WAR and trust me even total war attila a 2015 game brings my 3070 to 40 fps @1080p in the campaign map, and its frustrating to navigate the UI with 40 fps. and there's tons of other games like it same with turn based games, city sims etc, to have a feature like this turned on by one click IS MASSIVE
not every pc game is an FPS shooter.
The games you mentioned need a CPU more than a GPU.
whats your cpu?
@@luvingyouu 12600k
Vladiator, frame generation are exactly ideal for cpu capped games, it uses the gpu resources that would otherwise just be sitting idle waiting for the cpu. Daniel even mentioned this yesterday when he was doing the preliminary test.
@@revdarian exactly and some games like total war, the main culprit is the engine itself. no matter what you throw at it it'll get flooded at certain points. whether after hundreds of turns or with so many units on screen. and most of these games are strategy games so input and ghosting is less relevant.
another great video, Daniel is always spot on, the lack of Variable Refresh Rate defeats the purpose of frame generation, we get more frames but then we algo get judder... also, no ray reconstruction in sight . AMD still well behind Nvidia. A 4080 with a 5800X3D at 1440p + DLSS Quality + RT Psycho already gets 125-150 fps WITHOUT frame gen, on the other hand Daniel shows a 7900XTX with frame gen at 1440p + FSR Quality + RT Ultra (one step below Psycho) and it doesn't even hit 100 (it's 75-85 most of the time) even with the software-generated frames. It's still early tho, sure AMD will improve this tech but the lack of dedicated hardware in their cards will always hinder the experience specially when advanced ray-tracing is in place. 1st thing they need to fix is getting VRR to work.
You could say the same thing about DLSS. Defeats the purpose when the image is blurry, has artifacts or ghosting, etc. But people still use it, so who cares? You make compromises either way.
Ray reconstruction has many visual bugs that show that it is actually a bad idea to use it right now, it's not a silver bullet.
DLSS3 has none of those, maybe MINIMAL ghosting on very situational ocasions.@@YataLocK
The difference being DLSS has achieved native-like status when using the Quality preset. It's clear you haven't played this on a proper Nvidia GPU (in before you say you're a 4090 owner and the game is full of artifacts... because trolls gona troll)@@YataLocK
I agree with the VRR point but trying ray reconstruction for a week now with CP77 overdrive, and it's really not magic. It's trading texture sharpness, some ghosting, blurry faces with cleaner ray traced effects.
AMD also have a feature that actually decrease GPU load when someone is moving the mouse quickly, as rapid movements generate a kind of "smudged" / "blurred" image already. Maybe these 2 tech are controversial to each other or this one kicks in because the Fluid Motion Frame gen is not 100% supported in the game you are trying with.
Someone said you can turn on AMFM + FSR 3 FG at same time.
Please make video about that mr owen
I tried fsr 3 in Forspoken, when it is enabled , the 99% low framerate is slightly lower than normal and you can actually feel the graphics is not as fluent as normal settings. That is very weird experience.
You need to do additional adjustments with this tech.
Did you have v-sync enabled? On my 6800xt with only framegen on I went from 70-80fps to 140-150fps and it legitimatelly felt like the game was running at that framerate. I did notice a little more input lag maybe but not much more than if just v-sync was on.
@@hunterace4275 no, I didn’t enable vsync , should I do that?
@@finnicksong364 Yes v-sync needs to be enabled to make sure everything is syncronized. Unfortunatlally its not automatically enabled and its in a completely different menu but if you dont have it enabled in most cases you are going to be getting a much worse experiance than just running native.
@@hunterace4275 Forcing Vsync adds a ton of extra latency on top of the FG latency...
What's point of Having high fps that you can't get when you are in motion
Beta Version is always going to be the worst this will ever be :) I will wait for the full version to try it out.
Now THIS is actually a useful feature that Nvidia card DON'T have. And AMD can actually market their 7000 series cards with this feature.
Right now 7000 series cards are already pretty good value in terms of rasterisation, with frame gen tech being available for all games on the 7000 series gpus, it makes for a more compelling argument to buy their gpus.
Boosting fps only when camera not moving is kinda useless because it creates extremely unstable fps.
When your game constantly jumps between 50 and 90fps it feels worse than playing the game at locked 50fps because it makes your brain unable to get used to it.
now no one will complaining about fake frame. because we're now have that on both side. no one get jealous anymore 😏😏. for me personally FG/FM technology is promising for casual AAA games player with ever demanding specs requirements for current games.
I think this will work well for simulator games like Flight Simulator
And DCS World. Also large MMOs in busy trade hubs and raids.
Seems like something we can use with Radeon Boost where resolution is dynamically lowered when moving the mouse.
That's actually a really good point. Radeon Boost + AMFM sounds like it would be pretty cool, to achieve high frame rates in heavy games.
@@SirMo Probably at the cost of demolishing the image quality whenever the camera is panned. XD
Nice feature, at least the frame lag is consistent. kind of small penalty for a decent optimization. screen tearing on a capture?
I'm sure there will be community modded drivers that enable the functionality on older cards. It doesn't seem like AMD is requiring any RDNA3 specific hardware block to make this run, but (I assume that) the overhead may be a bit higher on RDNA1 and 2.
My guess is that since these technologies are new it is easier to try it out on the newest hardware and on limited number of different GPUs. They can focus on improving this tech, testing it on new cards and when they will be 100% happy with the results im pretty sure they will enable it on older GPUs
I tested it in my 7900XTX Witcher 3... I think it could get to be an interesting feature but right now it's not much appealing as it does not support HDR and at least in my case I can appreciate some ghosting and screen tearing (even below my Freesync 120Hz). Because of the limitations of implementing in the driver maybe it ends being another half baked Radeon solution as Boost or RSR. We'll see .🤞
Doesnt support HDR 😮
Why even though i have 120+ fps with FSR FG enabled in Forspoken it still feels like 60 fps?
Probably for visual clarity.
Edit: specifically visual clarity during motion.
Because frame generation doesn't lower your latency like actual native frames would, this is normal of any frame generation tech they actually slightly increase the latency.
I felt the same thing but I have a fix. Cap it on around 100-110 with Riva Tuner Statistics server. It will smooth it out and feel like the actual fps showing on your counter. :) Worked for me like a charm.
Enable vsync
enable vsync and do not use the native AA fsr option
Could you please try AFMF on a higher framerate basis? Base 30 is quite the stress, at least base 60 next time?
The side by side is mostly in the 60 to 70 base range which is recommended. The running around the city varied pretty widly though, I'll agree with that.
No HDR support really sucks
Is it fair to say that it would work well in MSFS 2020 since there really isn't fast motion?
Like you said. It's kind of funny and ironic that when you need it it's turned off. Smoothness is only noticed when you move side to side and up and down. Standing still or walking slowly forward has no effect on that you could have low FPS even and not notice as much.
What I always think if there would be the possibility for a Reshade effect, usually reshade gets quite alot oft data from dx11/12 game, like depth, temporal data and stuff, maybe some genius will write a frame gen shader, would be awesome :D
jeebus christ, what a frankenstein
the UI looked so good...wow
Which program you use for monitoring fps? Its overlay looks nice
Hello, I understand that it may be difficult to show the smoothness of the motion because as you said, TH-cam locks the video at 60FPS. But I don't think for the entirety of the video you once described the perceived smoothness of the game after enabling Fluid Motion Frame.
Asides from stating that "jutters" may be present or the weirdness of how it works while the camera is in motion, you never really said anything about if it does actually help in improving the overall experience.
I think the weirdness of the tech or even small visual artifacts is a lot less bothersome for many people than playing in 50-60FPS. But also at the same time, the tech works best at at least 60FPS for many reasons such as latency and hence the potential irrelevancy of the tech for the lower end hardware. It also kinda sucks that the earliest card they support is RX 5700 but also quite understandable.
I wonder if the driver is just checking for fast mouse movement to disable FMF or actually analysing how fast image is moving in current scene.
Can you maybe turn the mouse DPI to its minimum and windows mouse sensitivity to minimum as well + Ingame mouse sensitivity.
Then try to move mouse quickly such that mouse is moving fast but scene doesn't change much 🤔
Works fine for me but I don’t violently shake my mouse while playing .
The way reflex works with vrr and vsync on in the control panel by capping the frame rate perfectly, makes dlss 3 work really well. I don’t think AMD will ever have a real solution to this unless you have a 240hz monitor and are not hitting the vsync cap.
For games that don't require low latency it works great. MSFS works very well.
then you dont need msfs or fg to begin with
why is the micro stutter rate so high? i also have crazy stutters with it on