Jay Maybe that's how you see it, but to me it comes off a whole lot more entitled than impressive. She expected the men she was dressing down to fight and perhaps die so she could continue being royalty and everyone would still have to call her "your majesty". Basically she shamed them into defending her right to an easy life.
Yes, entitled, shockingly entitled. Go butcher thousands of people so that I can continue living my comfortable life and keep my title. She's partly responsible for the deaths of over thirty thousand people. I realize you want her to be a strong, independent woman for... some reason but listen to her speech again. "May I never be without the purple I wear, nor live to see the day when people do not call me your majesty." Disturbingly entitled, especially the bit about purple being the noblest shroud and rather dying than giving up her title and power.
"Justinian, in despair, considered fleeing, but his wife Theodora is said to have dissuaded him, saying, "Those who have worn the crown should never survive its loss. Never will I see the day when I am not saluted as empress." Although an escape route across the sea lay open for the emperor, Theodora insisted that she would stay in the city, quoting an ancient saying, "Royalty is a fine burial shroud," or perhaps, "[the royal color] Purple makes a fine winding sheet."" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots) I knew you guys would use these quotes, you just had to!
Except she was a constant source of political slander because of her past as an actress... she was actually a pretty good and capable leader during the reign of her husband, even holding together the Empire while Justinian was in a plague coma...
You have to admire Theodora's strength of character in the face of adversity, at a moment when every other high official was trembling in fear, she stood stalwart and gave Justinian the morale to save his crown.
This is true. To misunderstand their intentions by a millimeter can lead to them dishing out your torture by the miles! You know not how severely they believe what they believe. Added to that, a mob can easily lose their conscience and get crazed for no particular reason whatsoever.
Theadora was one hell of a woman, with a spine made stronger than all the men around her. She shamed those men with her words, but she loved her husband deeply, and through that love she shared the strength she had with him and the rest of his men.
Under normal circumstances i would say that was excessive but, no that they earned that slaughter. They destroyed countless history and homes of innocent people stomping on them until they stopped was the only course of action
sonicboomers122 Completely agree, they should have dealt with the London Riots in the same way. Once all the football hooligans had assembled in Wembley, begin an air-strike and orbital bombardment and save hundreds of soldiers lives in the process.
sonicboomers122 By modern standards, there's no way you can call a slaughter of 30, 000 of your own citizens justified. That's a small genocide. Just because you understand the reasoning behind the act it does not make the act itself a just one. But, it was a different time. For example, we don't see our governments as exercising divine right anymore either.
***** "Orbital Bombardment" Wh 40k? :D. Then let's send Boreale to retake Rome, and his mighty Spess Mahrens to retake Rome with his mighty tactics of "Steel Rehn" and rename it "Borealum" in his honor.
@@threedragonstalk2123 Well, as the crowds were chanting his name he was starting to warm up to the idea of possibly becoming emperor, so Theodora, in order to prevent another claimant to the throne, had him assassinated.
And who are you, the proud demes say, that we must bow so low? Only a man with better clothes, that's all the truth we know. In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws, And ours are long and sharp, my lord, as long and sharp as yours. And so they spoke, and so they spoke, those demes of Constantinople, But now the rains weep o'er the hippodrome, with no one there to hear. Yes now the rains weep o'er the hippodrome, and not a soul to hear. (This is a game of thrones joke I didn't write this, I just changed the lyrics of rains of castamere)
Christian Neihart Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down? Walpole! Walpole! Who keeps Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the Martians under wraps? Walpole! Walpole!
It's curious how many see him as a murder for the ending of this when he gave every effort at every turn to appease the mob. What choice did he have at the end but to have them culled for their aggression?
Minngarm Halnhammer He didn't give every effort at all, according this show at least. Notice for how long he simply ignored them and did nothing while the mob grew more radical. If he made a decision sooner it probably wouldn't have come down to this.
JewTube that's because he didn't expect them to become a riot, and besides apparently they were apparently pushed to become violent by Justinian's rivals (probably unknowingly) but still. Honestly, I'm surprised he didn't just kill them all earlier considering they burned 1/4 of the city down.
Brandon Ngo Yeah well people make that excuse about everything. But I was getting a bad feeling already every time they chanted and he ignored it. Either he frees two diem leaders or kills them and makes the decision while it's still his decision to make. But no, he let the situation get out of control.
+JewTube if did what you say he would have had authority forever called into question he shouldn't bow down to mob. Especially since the people in question deserve to be hanged at the time
JewTube He couldn't kill the leaders because they had no authority to storm the monasteries. He would have gotten a crap deal for letting them go and a crap deal for storming a monastery and killing them. So his only option was to wait them out.
And the moral: Purple is noblest colour as long it isn't a wedding. Don't crown your new emporer, if the old one isn't dead yet. And also this would make a pretty good movie.
The end of the riots is overwhelming. It's odd having stood in the area of the Hippodrome and now knowing so many people died there. Certainly changes my trip. I mean...I had lunch there.
I love when u give different perspectives on a certain event. Whether contemporary or as back story, its great as it shows how history does not take place in a vacuum but rather, everything is in flux at the same time. U did it with admiral yi's story and the sendokou jiddai, and also kosrau anushirawan and Justinian n theodora. Also, kudos on your explanation and historical description of the plague.
James, this episode was beautifully written! You did an incredible job; speaking as a PhD student in Classics, I'm thrilled by your, and the rest of the EC team's, ability to bring this stuff to life!
I have to say, one of my favorite things about these videos is the conversation they spark. The rationales on both sides of whether the slaughter of 30,000 civilians was really called for is a great example to me. On the one hand you have people with the ultimately correct and admirable belief of any human life lost is a loss. On the other people saying that the rioters deserved it. In the end I think both are correct personally but given the time period I favor the latter opinion. One thing that must be understood is that it was a very different world and that can be best shown with the difference in how warfare was waged. In modern times warfare is an ugly affair, make no doubt. It's violent, bloody and horrible. We can kill people more quickly and efficiently than ever before. However in some ways that's made warfare less ugly. In the ancient times where men had to rip each other apart by hand and blade the common methods of operation were kill-burn-loot-rape. In the end it was just how it was done, as, at that point even well trained soldiers had a kind of battle lust that can only be achieved in repeated melee. Needless to say, in those days it was a violent world and the common citizen could expect slightly worse treatment than the average house pet as far as the law was concerned. Looking at Justinian's decision through that lens, if he granted any clemency he would have been treated as a weak king and could easily expect many more reprisals and rebellions throughout his reign. Just look to the zulu episodes to see how a king is treated when he tries to make everyone happy. More to the point, those saying that a man like that should not be a ruler of men, I have the counterargument that, in those violent times, the only effective leader need to be violent as well. Otherwise you'll be quickly replaced by someone who is. Many such characters, leaders who we look back to with great reverence, had a bloody side to them as well so they could maintain order in the face of agitators who had no compunctions about causing death and destruction.
The people in the Hippodrome were kinda begging to be slaughtered if you think about it. They boxed themselves in making it way too easy to cut them down.
+Extra Credits I utterly admire the efforts and work you put in those magnificent downloads of historical marvel :) The intriguing and adapted manner in which you deliver the material is evidently delightful
here in brazil we face a problem like that - but it is still a newborn. here, after almost ever match of football involving one of the 3 greatests teams of the City of São Paulo, a group of fans who organize thenselfs for this gather and start fights witch always results in death of someone. in europe they have a similar problem.
Splendid! I enjoyed the narration and art work very much. Roman history is one of the most interesting things I've learned and I like seeing ECO do history lessons. Especially Justinian, Byzantium Romans are a different breed of Romans but it shows in the prowess of troop, formation of government, and overall August of leadership. Early Imperial Rome gets a lot of attention but the preservation of the Roman ideals through the Byzantines is still Roman at its core... And that is astounding.
+lucius croy According to Wikipedia, he played up the idea of being Emperor after being dragged out by the mob. After the rioters were slain, he was captured, whereupon it is rumored Justinian wished to spare him, but was prompted by Theodora to execute him, which he did.
lucius croy Oh well. Its possible once he saw the number of people rooting for him, he sincerely wanted to become Emperor. I guess we'll never know. Besides, Justinian probably really needed to make an example of the old Royal family at that point in time.
Hey since extra history is focusing on a specific figure this time I was wondering if you could go over the history of the Germanic mercenary Gotz von Berlichingen, or Gotz of the Iron Hand/Fist. Yeah guy was kind of a terrifying badass.
love this series. I've been a fan of Byzantine History for quite a few years and I'm so happy seeing this here. This episode has such a good opening few minutes, it makes the history so dramatic.
ssnakezz it's practically impossible to stop a riot that big without people ending up dead. It's really not a competition, both the riot itself and the measures taken were extremely violent acts, but it's not like the mob left Justinian much of a choice to stop the problem. And really, what the mob (and by extension, the people pulling the strings) were doing was pretty much the same thing that Justinian and his military did: trying to impose authority by force
Cure4Living At that point those 30,000 were basically a hostile army in friendly territory. I'll always prefer the diplomatic approach, but when you have a mob that burns down 1/4th of the city, drastic measures need be taken before you lose the rest. It's certainly not the best outcome, but not the worst either.
Cure4Living Well, if we're going to add positives and negatives together, wouldn't stopping the riots and preventing further casualties be a right? Even if you don't think the end justifies the means, the end should still *count*. Not that a 2-wrong 1-right situation is optimal either >_>
Tommy Laukkanen The best fantasy parallel is Sailing to Sarantium, by Guy Gavriel Kay. It's almost the exact story of Justinian and Theodora in an alternate world/history setting.
Dang, seeing how they're telling with this period in time, now I want to see them cover the life of King David, he did more awesome things than kill some big dude (and he wasn't as perfect as Hollywood portrays him), or the Books of Kings (there are some very interesting stories there), at least that is what my Christian side wants. My Venezuelan part want the cover of the Revolution of South America (First Venezuela since they became independent from Spain first) and touch in characters like Simón Bolívar and Francisco de Miranda (He is way too awesome to not be known).
Nemerian I REALLY understand your point, my problem is, nobody can ever do it like them and they approach this stories in ways that neither school or documentary channels (like History or Discovery) tend to do, especially now nowadays. And besides, The Book of Kings and The Books of Samuel are among the most historical ones (wether people wants to involve God or not) and we know for a fact that the people mentioned in there did existed (unlike Exxodus or Genesis) and we don't have too many issues discussing who is who in said book (Like Esther, Daniel, etc.), in other words I'm only asking the safest one, or at least, the one I think IS the safest one to ask for (if not, which one?). And yeah, I did forgot the reaction from People in those videos, but at the same time I think that there are stories that deserves to be told, especially because since nobody read the Bible (for "X" or "Y" reason) and nobody knows stories that I think should be more known like David's war against his Son Absalon and why it started, or how Salomon came to be (the first time I readed that my mind got blown). It does makes me sad that they'll probably never do those books, but a guy can dream, right?
Dmitrij Bugajev So, if 100,000 armed men stormed Washington DC, burned the White House, Congress, the Lincoln Memorial, and all of the Smithsonian museums to the ground, and declared Jeb Bush the True president of the United States, you would not advocate for military action?
icedragon769 I would call for military aid if any one was elevated to power outside way election or, appointment when in a time of war were there is no time for a proper election lest you lose the nation as a whole. This nation is free because one can't ascend to power by force, and the courts are free from the control of the enforcers. God bless the United States of America, hopefully it will stand at least till the tricentennial.
This has always been one of those moments in history where I am split. On the one hand, we all want to root for Justinian, the great leader, and we are relieved when he is clever and bold enough to take back power and restore order. At the same time, this is one of the early examples of the people asserting the power and making their voice heard. A hard call to resist when you are born into the democratic ideal. While this revolt would certainly have not have lead to a democratic revolution in any sense, it is still hard to not sympathise with the politically minded people that must have been in the crowd hoping they would finally have a chance to adress the corruption in their world and make a better place for themselves. I would have been far more likely to be in that crowd facing the state's overwhelming force than in Justinian's palace if I had been alive then and there, so I can't help but think of their experience. But of course, I also want to root for Justinian, the one who nearly reunited the east and west. Conflicted emotions make for the best history.
Does it have to get to nika for you to have moral qualms over what he did ? He was an emperor who for his vanity,ambition and greed was willing to wage wars that costed thousands of lives. Thousands of greeks , vandals , ostrogoths etc died in battles , sieges , raids whatever because he Justinian wanted a bigger empire. Is that good? Great men arent good men
It wasnt good but I often think its what the people wanted: in Rome at least (Im not as well versed in Byzantine) people loved victory and the glory it brings. But yes, it caused suffering to the soldiers, unless they won then they got booty/could rise in the ranks (position) esp in the republic
I was shocked at myself when my very first reaction was joy for Justinian's victory before I realized that this is the exact form of brutality I would rage against in modern times. A large part of that is EH's ability to tell a dramatic narrative with Justinian largely as a hero. We've been rooting for him throughout the series, and many of the negative attributes of his councillors mentioned are no longer negative to modern eyes. Which, as is mentioned so often in the Lies section, is just another reason to get multiple viewpoints.
This storming of the Hippodrome sounded very familiar. An SF story by Jerry Pournelle, The Mercenary, finishes with a scene very similar to this. The final lines, after someone praises the central character for saving the planet is, "Don't say that! The best a soldier can do is buy time." I suspect the next episode will be about Justinian making use of the time Belisarius and Mundus bought for him.
It's a powerful phrase that remains true. You live and so you must cope with the eventuality that you must die if not now then later. No matter how unfair it my seem it is simply the way things are and not even the most powerful man can change it.
These parts of history in school were boring as heck. I'd never thought I'd be so excited to learn about this emperor. You guys really have a gift for story-telling.
If you wish to save yourself, my lord, there is no difficulty. We are rick; over there is the sea, and yonder are the ships. Yet reflect for a moment whether, when you have once escaped to a place of security, you would not gladly exchange such safety for death. As for me, I agree with the adage that the royal purple is the noblest shroud.
I'm sure if they put their hands up and accepted jail time, the guards wouldn't have slashed away at them. But a crazed mob is going to make the wrong choices, so they probably ran and screamed instead of surrendered. Then the guards killed them anyway, because they were going to run off to burn more buildings again. Maybe they should have thought about what they were doing a bit more! 🤣 They like games?? Here you go; Team Red!
When this series primed me for the "best emperor of the Byzantines" I should have known that would mean a completely corrupt, homicidal, torturing, kleptomaniac. Not sure what Daniel means when he says he's his favorite. Its amazing how monsters are elevated. But thats statism for you. If a leader increases the power of the state, increasing violence in the world, historians will write about him.
formsMostBeautiful Geezus, get that stick out of your rump. You're acting as if Justinian did something especially cruel and unusual for the time, or that he took immense pleasure in it.
formsMostBeautiful Could you point out where he's being "vane, torturing, unprincipled, kleptomaniac"? I can MAYBE give you corrupt, because he did bribe people; and MAYBE homicidal, though I don't think quelling a riot is quite the same thing... but the rest you pretty much pulled out of your ass there.
Marconius His tax collector tortured people to see where their money was, and then he stole it. Justinian is responsible for those he put in power. Corruption is a sufficient condition for being unprincipled. However, his driving principle was restoring Rome and Rome was rife with corruption, so you could argue he's being consistent there. I wouldn't call that principled but I could drop "unprincipled" as a moniker. I don't think its a stretch to call an emperor vane and the way he reacted to the crowd over whether to free the men indicates it also. However, if you don't think that's good evidence for it, I could drop that moniker. The rest is still true. Hjernespreng "You're acting as if Justinian did something especially cruel and unusual for the time" Sorry if I'm uncomfortable glorifying a monster. You seem fine with it, so there's no need for you to comment on my thread.
formsMostBeautiful Geez is every significant person in history a monster? Humans will always be humans, I could understand why Justinian killed those againts his rule, it was because he wanted to ensure of his Roman Restoration.
While im thinking "The minarets werent added until like 1000 years later" A: it makes hagia sofia alot more recognizable & B: I find it quite amusing & hilarious, it adds a nice touch of humor to your work & we all know that while you try to make these vids as historically accurate, you also have room for a few laughs & you're not boring & stoic with a stick up your...well you know, as always extracredits love your vids & keep up the good work on educating your viewers while giving us a good laugh at the same time, Best wishes L.M.P.
Tywin Lannister L.M.P was my channel's former name. Just google "A Stick Up your", If you are not trolling me and you genuinely dont know this expression, then the top result in the search bar upon typing the sentence should say it all...
One thing to note: at 3:24 Hagia Sophia is depicted as a mosque even though the Byzantine religion was Orthodox Christianity. Basically the 4 towers weren't a thing until the ottomans.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
and what was the real lessons? Make sure to get quality rope
Redem10 and quality fire extinguishers
***** and limit the power of political parties
Redem10 Or that no one tampers with it. Or that your execution crowd includes no priests. Or that you shouldn't supply sports fans with weapons.
xertris What? No, clearly this is a lesson about rope. I have no idea how you thought this had anything to do with politics.
Chris c-k I don't know there was like six guys, would surely strain the arms of the executionner
That Theodora was one Hell of an impressive woman for her time.
Jay Especially considering she started off as an "actress," but then Justinian wasn't born into nobility either and he managed some impressive stuff
Jay Maybe that's how you see it, but to me it comes off a whole lot more entitled than impressive. She expected the men she was dressing down to fight and perhaps die so she could continue being royalty and everyone would still have to call her "your majesty". Basically she shamed them into defending her right to an easy life.
what's so great about saying royality is much better than us normal people?
Yes, entitled, shockingly entitled. Go butcher thousands of people so that I can continue living my comfortable life and keep my title. She's partly responsible for the deaths of over thirty thousand people. I realize you want her to be a strong, independent woman for... some reason but listen to her speech again. "May I never be without the purple I wear, nor live to see the day when people do not call me your majesty." Disturbingly entitled, especially the bit about purple being the noblest shroud and rather dying than giving up her title and power.
Jay Not even just for her time, she was an impressive woman in general.
I've never trusted sports fans.
I knew I've seen your channel somewhere lol.
Hell no they're cultists who worship competition for no legitimate reason. That's horrific
I've never trusted sports :P
Same
same
"Justinian, in despair, considered fleeing, but his wife Theodora is said to have dissuaded him, saying, "Those who have worn the crown should never survive its loss. Never will I see the day when I am not saluted as empress." Although an escape route across the sea lay open for the emperor, Theodora insisted that she would stay in the city, quoting an ancient saying, "Royalty is a fine burial shroud," or perhaps, "[the royal color] Purple makes a fine winding sheet."" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots) I knew you guys would use these quotes, you just had to!
***** You gotta love them for it.
The man who first shouted 'nika'...It was Walpole
Walpole is an immortal being
I am the best meme! ;)
The mastermind behind all human tragedy, Lord Wapole. :)
Sollerite but wasn't blunt the mastermind, and walpole just taking advantage of the tragedy and orchestrating the coverup?
Andro A Definitely Walpole!
the morale of the story is :"don't buy discount ropes
Federico MUNERATO indeed
Federico MUNERATO note added,anything else?
Taiwan Mapper But it's messier
@@Kunumbah1 not if you're good at it
Lolol 🤣 Oh yeahhh! ...THAT happened!
I love how Theodora's whole thesis statement is "I won't stand for being less famous than I am now."
Not famous
Except she was a constant source of political slander because of her past as an actress... she was actually a pretty good and capable leader during the reign of her husband, even holding together the Empire while Justinian was in a plague coma...
And that speech came from Procopius... Likely doctored and manipulated to make her seem as tyrannical as possible...
Spoken like a true Thespian
@@CollinMcLean don’t care, still want her to step on me
You have to admire Theodora's strength of character in the face of adversity, at a moment when every other high official was trembling in fear, she stood stalwart and gave Justinian the morale to save his crown.
Damn, sports riots are serious business.
grfrjiglstan have you been to.. Literally any country whose main event is a soccer match? Lol
@@jacobandrews2663 central america. I had no idea it was as bad as it is.
I don't care how powerful you are, when hundreds of thousands of people chant against you in person you will be terrified.
unless you're self-made genetically enhanced super emperor
Every king will fear the shitstain peasantry united
This is true. To misunderstand their intentions by a millimeter can lead to them dishing out your torture by the miles!
You know not how severely they believe what they believe. Added to that,
a mob can easily lose their conscience and get crazed for no particular reason whatsoever.
Evidently unless you’re Theodora.
You think that’s scary, try working on a psychiatric ward and having someone in management scheduling window washers at dusk 🙀
Theadora was one hell of a woman, with a spine made stronger than all the men around her. She shamed those men with her words, but she loved her husband deeply, and through that love she shared the strength she had with him and the rest of his men.
3:25 : the minarets at the corner of Hagia Sophia were added by the Turks, after the fall of the city in 1453. Not there at the time of Justinian
***** And I was JUST going to point that out! Ninja'd :P
***** True.
IRisingFuryI I am no ninja. I bribed a few guys who informed me of your plans about commenting on that point, so that I could outmanoeuver you
***** Yes, but it is much more recognizable when it looks like it does today.
IRisingFuryI Shut up you fucking smurf, the green are the best!
Under normal circumstances i would say that was excessive but, no that they earned that slaughter. They destroyed countless history and homes of innocent people stomping on them until they stopped was the only course of action
sonicboomers122
I agree, those citizens were completely out of line and they were becoming their own worst enemy.
sonicboomers122 Completely agree, they should have dealt with the London Riots in the same way. Once all the football hooligans had assembled in Wembley, begin an air-strike and orbital bombardment and save hundreds of soldiers lives in the process.
sonicboomers122 And Justinian even offered a peaceful resolution before having to resort to wholesale slaughter.
sonicboomers122 By modern standards, there's no way you can call a slaughter of 30, 000 of your own citizens justified. That's a small genocide. Just because you understand the reasoning behind the act it does not make the act itself a just one. But, it was a different time. For example, we don't see our governments as exercising divine right anymore either.
***** "Orbital Bombardment" Wh 40k? :D. Then let's send Boreale to retake Rome, and his mighty Spess Mahrens to retake Rome with his mighty tactics of "Steel Rehn" and rename it "Borealum" in his honor.
+ Theodora had Hypatius (the would be Nika emperor) executed, if someone is wondering.
VaeSapiens I was wondering what happened to the poor guy...I hope it was a quick death
This is the one thing she did here that I think was uncalled for
@@threedragonstalk2123 Well, as the crowds were chanting his name he was starting to warm up to the idea of possibly becoming emperor, so Theodora, in order to prevent another claimant to the throne, had him assassinated.
@@claudiu-mihaipuiu1221 As she should
Riots have been a noble traditional custom in Greece ever since.
Unfortunately, Greco-Roman citizens wielding democratic power all but went extinct after this affair.
And who are you, the proud demes say,
that we must bow so low?
Only a man with better clothes,
that's all the truth we know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And ours are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so they spoke, and so they spoke,
those demes of Constantinople,
But now the rains weep o'er the hippodrome,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er the hippodrome,
and not a soul to hear.
(This is a game of thrones joke I didn't write this, I just changed the lyrics of rains of castamere)
frederica bernkastel how long did it take you to think this up??? it probably would have take me a few days at least :P
Rough adaption of Rains of Castamere, but fun nonetheless. Love ASOIAF/GoT.
Yooooooo This is Insanee!
This made my day
This is so legit
The roof, the roof, the roof is on-- It was Walpole.
Christian Neihart
10/10 joke
Christian Neihart I want to make Walpole jokes with my friends but i don't think they'd understand :'(
YOUR FRIENDS ARE WALPOLE
MAXIMUM WALPOLE! SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY! WITNESS THE VEHICULAR CARNAGE- It was Walpole
Christian Neihart Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down?
Walpole! Walpole!
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
Walpole! Walpole!
It's curious how many see him as a murder for the ending of this when he gave every effort at every turn to appease the mob. What choice did he have at the end but to have them culled for their aggression?
Minngarm Halnhammer He didn't give every effort at all, according this show at least. Notice for how long he simply ignored them and did nothing while the mob grew more radical. If he made a decision sooner it probably wouldn't have come down to this.
JewTube that's because he didn't expect them to become a riot, and besides apparently they were apparently pushed to become violent by Justinian's rivals (probably unknowingly) but still. Honestly, I'm surprised he didn't just kill them all earlier considering they burned 1/4 of the city down.
Brandon Ngo
Yeah well people make that excuse about everything. But I was getting a bad feeling already every time they chanted and he ignored it. Either he frees two diem leaders or kills them and makes the decision while it's still his decision to make. But no, he let the situation get out of control.
+JewTube if did what you say he would have had authority forever called into question he shouldn't bow down to mob. Especially since the people in question deserve to be hanged at the time
JewTube He couldn't kill the leaders because they had no authority to storm the monasteries. He would have gotten a crap deal for letting them go and a crap deal for storming a monastery and killing them. So his only option was to wait them out.
And the moral: Purple is noblest colour as long it isn't a wedding.
Don't crown your new emporer, if the old one isn't dead yet.
And also this would make a pretty good movie.
I love how everybody riots and begins tearing the city apart, but still expects the games to proceed as usual at the end of the week.
They're now all on team Red.
13.000 people died in that day.
Sad but i can't really feel pity when they burned half of the fucking city because of murderers
Cykachu Xmayro 30,000
+Cykachu Xmayro and set prisoners free! wtf!! haha
+Cykachu Xmayro Its like the second half of Dark Knight Rises!
+Cykachu Xmayro they likely raped, looted and murdered other neutral civilians during their rampage as well
will history repeat itself
Nika = rekt
In the parlance of our times
kalibos AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH
If HBO or someone makes a show on this, the show will be named Nika.
I thought it was Nike like the greek goddess
nika=νίκα means win (the verb) and its oredering you to so more accurately it means you must win
And rekt they were in the end
The end of the riots is overwhelming. It's odd having stood in the area of the Hippodrome and now knowing so many people died there. Certainly changes my trip. I mean...I had lunch there.
Meh, they more than deserved it.
Is it just me, or would this make a badass video game? Already have the title.
NIKA!
Justinian and Theodora just gained some mad respect from me
I love when u give different perspectives on a certain event. Whether contemporary or as back story, its great as it shows how history does not take place in a vacuum but rather, everything is in flux at the same time.
U did it with admiral yi's story and the sendokou jiddai, and also kosrau anushirawan and Justinian n theodora. Also, kudos on your explanation and historical description of the plague.
"Valar morghulis" --Theodora
patu8010 I think there is a real life latin equivalent, "Memento mori" I think.
Zarko Cekovski we all dance the danse macabre
riquelme376 well, he wasnt anymore :P
"What ?" -- Justinian
Theodora > Marie Antoinette
Not even close
How so?
One was born into aristocracy and the other raised to aristocracy.
TheGreatOldOak yeah but one contributed greatly to her country and people whereas the other cared more about how to look prettier.
exactly, the two came from the opposite ends of the spectrum yet I believe Theodora as a more capable leader than Marie in a time of crisis.
Demes somehow reminds me of twitch chat.
siprus Demes should remind you of twitch chat, because...
Demes.
Are.
Twitch.
Chat.
P.S. Both were created by Walpole.
Or Discord
Thank I just want to say thank you for doing this . You are amazing people. Thank you.
I'm so glad I can see an episode each week.
Who bribed the Blue officials? Walpole.
Who set Constantinople on fire? Walpole.
who commented here? Walpole
Who remembers Walpole?
Pepperidge Farms remembers Walpole.
James, this episode was beautifully written! You did an incredible job; speaking as a PhD student in Classics, I'm thrilled by your, and the rest of the EC team's, ability to bring this stuff to life!
"What's that? You want to dethrone me? Well fuck you."
Pittsburger here, I can confirm this is how steelers fans act.
Justinian pisses off early history sports fanboys, horrifying.
Just discovered your channel, it's really great !
Fun, focused on both history and games ? AND BYZANTIUM ? Love you, man.
Wow. Suddenly, modern-day sports fans look a lot calmer.
Have you been to a Steelers game?
@@azelfdaboi5265 Or a soccer/football game? There is a good reason that the Orks in 40k are based on British soccer hooligans.
@@TheTrueAdept they depose governments?
@@sharilshahed6106 no, for the chaos and destruction they create.
This was one of my favorite parts of my history class last year :)
I have to say, one of my favorite things about these videos is the conversation they spark. The rationales on both sides of whether the slaughter of 30,000 civilians was really called for is a great example to me.
On the one hand you have people with the ultimately correct and admirable belief of any human life lost is a loss.
On the other people saying that the rioters deserved it.
In the end I think both are correct personally but given the time period I favor the latter opinion.
One thing that must be understood is that it was a very different world and that can be best shown with the difference in how warfare was waged. In modern times warfare is an ugly affair, make no doubt. It's violent, bloody and horrible. We can kill people more quickly and efficiently than ever before. However in some ways that's made warfare less ugly. In the ancient times where men had to rip each other apart by hand and blade the common methods of operation were kill-burn-loot-rape. In the end it was just how it was done, as, at that point even well trained soldiers had a kind of battle lust that can only be achieved in repeated melee.
Needless to say, in those days it was a violent world and the common citizen could expect slightly worse treatment than the average house pet as far as the law was concerned. Looking at Justinian's decision through that lens, if he granted any clemency he would have been treated as a weak king and could easily expect many more reprisals and rebellions throughout his reign. Just look to the zulu episodes to see how a king is treated when he tries to make everyone happy.
More to the point, those saying that a man like that should not be a ruler of men, I have the counterargument that, in those violent times, the only effective leader need to be violent as well. Otherwise you'll be quickly replaced by someone who is. Many such characters, leaders who we look back to with great reverence, had a bloody side to them as well so they could maintain order in the face of agitators who had no compunctions about causing death and destruction.
The people in the Hippodrome were kinda begging to be slaughtered if you think about it. They boxed themselves in making it way too easy to cut them down.
I love this channel because months ago I watched this series, and now I am re watching this series and am doing a project about Justinian!
When Dan said "and Justinian's reign would never be challenged again" you should have used "The Rains of Castamere" as the backround song
+Extra Credits I utterly admire the efforts and work you put in those magnificent downloads of historical marvel :) The intriguing and adapted manner in which you deliver the material is evidently delightful
here in brazil we face a problem like that - but it is still a newborn. here, after almost ever match of football involving one of the 3 greatests teams of the City of São Paulo, a group of fans who organize thenselfs for this gather and start fights witch always results in death of someone.
in europe they have a similar problem.
I laughed my ass off when I realised "nika" literally means "fuck her" in Arabic.
The idea of a man being dragged out from under his bed kicking and screaming and brought to the palace to be declared emperor is just hilarious to me.
Splendid! I enjoyed the narration and art work very much. Roman history is one of the most interesting things I've learned and I like seeing ECO do history lessons. Especially Justinian, Byzantium Romans are a different breed of Romans but it shows in the prowess of troop, formation of government, and overall August of leadership.
Early Imperial Rome gets a lot of attention but the preservation of the Roman ideals through the Byzantines is still Roman at its core...
And that is astounding.
What happened to the nefew who didnt wanna he emperor
Be*
+lucius croy According to Wikipedia, he played up the idea of being Emperor after being dragged out by the mob. After the rioters were slain, he was captured, whereupon it is rumored Justinian wished to spare him, but was prompted by Theodora to execute him, which he did.
Michael Kemel but he did nothing wrong!! _._ I hate the romans
lucius croy Oh well. Its possible once he saw the number of people rooting for him, he sincerely wanted to become Emperor. I guess we'll never know. Besides, Justinian probably really needed to make an example of the old Royal family at that point in time.
Michael Kemel BTW check your hang outs
2:45 The drums of liberation...
thats like 30,000 heads you could play like so much soccer with those.
This is probably the single most epic episode I've seen yet. Great work!
Hey since extra history is focusing on a specific figure this time I was wondering if you could go over the history of the Germanic mercenary Gotz von Berlichingen, or Gotz of the Iron Hand/Fist. Yeah guy was kind of a terrifying badass.
Whelp, it's been 6 years but they did do a video on him recently!
love this series. I've been a fan of Byzantine History for quite a few years and I'm so happy seeing this here. This episode has such a good opening few minutes, it makes the history so dramatic.
So... Narces is basically Petyr Baelish and Varys in the same person?
elio IKR
Poor Hypatius. Afterward Justinian wanted to spare the man, but Theodora hen-pecked him into executing the man.
That raging wench...!
loving the art on this one!
I have to say, I actually got goosebumps at the end there. I have never been so interested/engaged in History in my life.
3:15 I've a special hatred for people who burn books and monuments
Mob: burns invaluable relics of Constantine the great.
Justinian: so you have chosen. Death "Belisarius, Mundus!"
The Roman Empire was almost brought down by sports fan riots.
So interesting. Thank you for these videos!
30,000 dead?! Thats insane!
ssnakezz I think burning and looting a 4th of the city and killing the people who tried to put out the fires tops it.
AbosluteInfinity yes... but not really
ssnakezz it's practically impossible to stop a riot that big without people ending up dead. It's really not a competition, both the riot itself and the measures taken were extremely violent acts, but it's not like the mob left Justinian much of a choice to stop the problem. And really, what the mob (and by extension, the people pulling the strings) were doing was pretty much the same thing that Justinian and his military did: trying to impose authority by force
Cure4Living At that point those 30,000 were basically a hostile army in friendly territory. I'll always prefer the diplomatic approach, but when you have a mob that burns down 1/4th of the city, drastic measures need be taken before you lose the rest. It's certainly not the best outcome, but not the worst either.
Cure4Living Well, if we're going to add positives and negatives together, wouldn't stopping the riots and preventing further casualties be a right? Even if you don't think the end justifies the means, the end should still *count*.
Not that a 2-wrong 1-right situation is optimal either >_>
Awesome! Extra History is one of my favorite TH-cam features. Got to love Justinian and Theodora. :)
Song of Ice and Fire, anyone?
Tommy Laukkanen Was expecting the Rains of Castamere at the end.
Tommy Laukkanen All over it.
Tommy Laukkanen The best fantasy parallel is Sailing to Sarantium, by Guy Gavriel Kay. It's almost the exact story of Justinian and Theodora in an alternate world/history setting.
Just wanna say, thanks for adding the annotation for the next ep.
Dang, seeing how they're telling with this period in time, now I want to see them cover the life of King David, he did more awesome things than kill some big dude (and he wasn't as perfect as Hollywood portrays him), or the Books of Kings (there are some very interesting stories there), at least that is what my Christian side wants.
My Venezuelan part want the cover of the Revolution of South America (First Venezuela since they became independent from Spain first) and touch in characters like Simón Bolívar and Francisco de Miranda (He is way too awesome to not be known).
Nemerian I REALLY understand your point, my problem is, nobody can ever do it like them and they approach this stories in ways that neither school or documentary channels (like History or Discovery) tend to do, especially now nowadays.
And besides, The Book of Kings and The Books of Samuel are among the most historical ones (wether people wants to involve God or not) and we know for a fact that the people mentioned in there did existed (unlike Exxodus or Genesis) and we don't have too many issues discussing who is who in said book (Like Esther, Daniel, etc.), in other words I'm only asking the safest one, or at least, the one I think IS the safest one to ask for (if not, which one?).
And yeah, I did forgot the reaction from People in those videos, but at the same time I think that there are stories that deserves to be told, especially because since nobody read the Bible (for "X" or "Y" reason) and nobody knows stories that I think should be more known like David's war against his Son Absalon and why it started, or how Salomon came to be (the first time I readed that my mind got blown).
It does makes me sad that they'll probably never do those books, but a guy can dream, right?
Justinian:
The Demes: *I'm gonna say the N Word*
nika in greek is the word we use to say to some one:win.
the word victory is niki. and conquer kataktise
Theodora had balls of steel!
Bro this is some juicy Roman drama 👏👏👏👏
This is how you act when you're an emperor!
Yet it now surprises me he was declared a saint.
Considering he did that after they caused a massive fire, and five days of destruction i think we can call this justified.
Dmitrij Bugajev So, if 100,000 armed men stormed Washington DC, burned the White House, Congress, the Lincoln Memorial, and all of the Smithsonian museums to the ground, and declared Jeb Bush the True president of the United States, you would not advocate for military action?
icedragon769 I would call for military aid if any one was elevated to power outside way election or, appointment when in a time of war were there is no time for a proper election lest you lose the nation as a whole. This nation is free because one can't ascend to power by force, and the courts are free from the control of the enforcers. God bless the United States of America, hopefully it will stand at least till the tricentennial.
Nathan Wells You can buy your seat. So, how is that not force?
BrettCWX
My meaning is that one in this nation is not able to rule as a military dictator or as a puppet put there by tricks and chicanery.
This has always been one of those moments in history where I am split. On the one hand, we all want to root for Justinian, the great leader, and we are relieved when he is clever and bold enough to take back power and restore order. At the same time, this is one of the early examples of the people asserting the power and making their voice heard. A hard call to resist when you are born into the democratic ideal.
While this revolt would certainly have not have lead to a democratic revolution in any sense, it is still hard to not sympathise with the politically minded people that must have been in the crowd hoping they would finally have a chance to adress the corruption in their world and make a better place for themselves.
I would have been far more likely to be in that crowd facing the state's overwhelming force than in Justinian's palace if I had been alive then and there, so I can't help but think of their experience. But of course, I also want to root for Justinian, the one who nearly reunited the east and west.
Conflicted emotions make for the best history.
Does it have to get to nika for you to have moral qualms over what he did ? He was an emperor who for his vanity,ambition and greed was willing to wage wars that costed thousands of lives. Thousands of greeks , vandals , ostrogoths etc died in battles , sieges , raids whatever because he Justinian wanted a bigger empire. Is that good? Great men arent good men
It wasnt good but I often think its what the people wanted: in Rome at least (Im not as well versed in Byzantine) people loved victory and the glory it brings. But yes, it caused suffering to the soldiers, unless they won then they got booty/could rise in the ranks (position) esp in the republic
I was shocked at myself when my very first reaction was joy for Justinian's victory before I realized that this is the exact form of brutality I would rage against in modern times.
A large part of that is EH's ability to tell a dramatic narrative with Justinian largely as a hero. We've been rooting for him throughout the series, and many of the negative attributes of his councillors mentioned are no longer negative to modern eyes. Which, as is mentioned so often in the Lies section, is just another reason to get multiple viewpoints.
they were Hooligans, who didn't cared about politics, they just wanted to riot
Gilgamesch von Uruk So they should be butchered ?
This storming of the Hippodrome sounded very familiar. An SF story by Jerry Pournelle, The Mercenary, finishes with a scene very similar to this.
The final lines, after someone praises the central character for saving the planet is, "Don't say that! The best a soldier can do is buy time."
I suspect the next episode will be about Justinian making use of the time Belisarius and Mundus bought for him.
6:25 "Every man born to see the light of day must die" So Theodora invented the phrase Valar Morghulis?
It's a powerful phrase that remains true. You live and so you must cope with the eventuality that you must die if not now then later. No matter how unfair it my seem it is simply the way things are and not even the most powerful man can change it.
Watching the end. All I can think of is
"And who are you, the proud lord said, that I must bow so low-"
This is even better than Game of Thrones
That was incredible and moving. Thank you.
haha I love the pictures of the "Fire"
Holly cow! This chapter was so heavy!
Who is watching this series in 2020?
Love the personification of the fire and the way it was drawn.
Honestly, I love that Justinian didn't flee and went on to kill all the ones who opposed him.
Back then was brutal, you got sports fans almost toppled an empire😂
2:30 a moment in history in which the common man changed history
These parts of history in school were boring as heck. I'd never thought I'd be so excited to learn about this emperor. You guys really have a gift for story-telling.
1:37 Yi what are you doing here go fight japan.
If you wish to save yourself, my lord, there is no difficulty. We are rick; over there is the sea, and yonder are the ships. Yet reflect for a moment whether, when you have once escaped to a place of security, you would not gladly exchange such safety for death. As for me, I agree with the adage that the royal purple is the noblest shroud.
If Extra Credits exists 10 years later, there might be an Extra history for what happens in Europe these days...
Nah they dont cover recent events, unless they get a sponsorship to do that
History is so crazy
7:02 a solar watch!
great work guys!! this one is as cool as the sengoku jidai one, keep it up!
I love how the comments treat all the rioters as innocents that didn't deserve to be killed lol
I'm sure if they put their hands up and accepted jail time, the guards wouldn't have slashed away at them.
But a crazed mob is going to make the wrong choices, so they probably ran and screamed instead of surrendered.
Then the guards killed them anyway, because they were going to run off to burn more buildings again.
Maybe they should have thought about what they were doing a bit more! 🤣 They like games?? Here you go; Team Red!
When this series primed me for the "best emperor of the Byzantines" I should have known that would mean a completely corrupt, homicidal, torturing, kleptomaniac. Not sure what Daniel means when he says he's his favorite.
Its amazing how monsters are elevated. But thats statism for you. If a leader increases the power of the state, increasing violence in the world, historians will write about him.
formsMostBeautiful Geezus, get that stick out of your rump. You're acting as if Justinian did something especially cruel and unusual for the time, or that he took immense pleasure in it.
formsMostBeautiful Could you point out where he's being "vane, torturing, unprincipled, kleptomaniac"? I can MAYBE give you corrupt, because he did bribe people; and MAYBE homicidal, though I don't think quelling a riot is quite the same thing... but the rest you pretty much pulled out of your ass there.
Marconius
His tax collector tortured people to see where their money was, and then he stole it. Justinian is responsible for those he put in power.
Corruption is a sufficient condition for being unprincipled. However, his driving principle was restoring Rome and Rome was rife with corruption, so you could argue he's being consistent there. I wouldn't call that principled but I could drop "unprincipled" as a moniker.
I don't think its a stretch to call an emperor vane and the way he reacted to the crowd over whether to free the men indicates it also. However, if you don't think that's good evidence for it, I could drop that moniker. The rest is still true.
Hjernespreng
"You're acting as if Justinian did something especially cruel and unusual for the time"
Sorry if I'm uncomfortable glorifying a monster. You seem fine with it, so there's no need for you to comment on my thread.
formsMostBeautiful I think he means favourite because he's the most interesting.
formsMostBeautiful Geez is every significant person in history a monster? Humans will always be humans, I could understand why Justinian killed those againts his rule, it was because he wanted to ensure of his Roman Restoration.
Fire and Blood.
This is really quite epic. Very much enjoying this.
Well this sounds familiar
While im thinking "The minarets werent added until like 1000 years later" A: it makes hagia sofia alot more recognizable & B: I find it quite amusing & hilarious, it adds a nice touch of humor to your work & we all know that while you try to make these vids as historically accurate, you also have room for a few laughs & you're not boring & stoic with a stick up your...well you know, as always extracredits love your vids & keep up the good work on educating your viewers while giving us a good laugh at the same time, Best wishes L.M.P.
Tywin Lannister L.M.P was my channel's former name.
Just google "A Stick Up your", If you are not trolling me and you genuinely dont know this expression, then the top result in the search bar upon typing the sentence should say it all...
"May I never be without the purple I wear."
One thing to note: at 3:24 Hagia Sophia is depicted as a mosque even though the Byzantine religion was Orthodox Christianity. Basically the 4 towers weren't a thing until the ottomans.