How the Chinese patriots view the Roman Empire: Rome was a joke; they couldn't stand before Atilla's nomadic army; a so-called Empire couldn't they deal with the German tribes and the Picts; two Roman legions crushed by the Germans pathetically; Rome got stormed and looted by barbarians over and over again etc etc....... How the Italian patriots view the Han Empire: The Han Empire was a joke; how could them be on a par with almighty Rome? the emperor married his daughter to the barbarians to make peace with them; the emperor himself stupidly stepped into Xiong Nu's trap and almost got captured; it took the Han army 100 hundred years to deal with Qiang's rebellion etc etc...... How Rome and the Chinese actually viewed each other in history: Romans: 'The region of the Seres (China) is a vast and populous country...... The people are civilized, mild, just, and frugal, eschewing collisions with their neighbours, and even shy of close intercourse, but not averse to dispose of their own products, of which raw silk is the staple, but which include also silk-stuffs, fine furs, and iron of remarkable quality.' (classical geographers summarised by Yule') Chinese: 'Their kings are not permanent rulers, but they appoint men of merit. When a severe calamity visits the country or untimely rain-storms, the king is deposed and replaced by another. The one relieved from his duties submits to his degradation without a murmur. The inhabitants of that country are tall and well-proportioned, somewhat like the Han [Chinese], whence they are called [Daqin]' ('The Book of the Later Han') In summary: Romans and Chinese actually admired each other, somehow nowadays a lot of netizens always put them into opposing sides.
This is funny because it's true. Most of the time when the debates on these two empire gets escalated, it becomes a dick measuring contest between the people arguing instead of the actual merits of Rome and Han.
If i'm not mistaken, can't exactly remember where, but the Han empire knew of Rome and admired the rumor of Romans being honest trader. Some tomb found in the region now known as China had Roman coins, and some historical account mention the Han empire trying to make contact with Rome, but the Kushan, and Parthia empire kept running the messenger from the Han empire in circle to prevent the two mammoth from making contact with each other.
True, but sadly that's what happens when you talk about the 2 most powerful nations of their day. It's also why I asked the Metatron to make the comparison in last week's video & someone else, who would probably be more biased. Unlike most people the Metatron has respect for & knowledge about both western AND eastern cultures of that time.
"Hi, i'm the Roman Empire" "Hi, i'm the Chinese Empire" "We're both strong and ready to fight, what should we do?" "You take care of the west and i take care of the east?!" "Deal. Have a good day sir." "Thank you, you too."
Aleni Melis standards of beauty change over time, asians considered Europeans ugly when they first encountered them, it took hundreds to thousands of years to see them as beautiful.
@@curtiswong7280 wow I didn't know he was that good at Chinese. He's very good at Japanese but he tries to speak it so fast that we can hear an Italian intonation coming through.
Now THIS is a video I'm going to watch in my recliner with a cup of coffee. Metatron, people like you are precisely the reason why Paetron exist, because you give us academic level quality stuff that is beautifully presented, passionately delivered, and not, well... insert boring History channel video here.
And he’s a hell of a lot more accurate than the History Channel. Doesn’t try to fool us with fake history that sounds interesting for the sake of getting more viewers.
I´m sorry, but this video is made very poorly. It is more radio with a few extra pictures. It is giving a lot of information but it has no real good structure. Too many weak points to mention them all, so just one typical example. While he´s talking about logistics he starts to play chess at 11:45 ...yes it is the Chinese variation of chess, but chess is a very simple game. You have one army that fights against another army straight on. Between the two armies there's water. That is a typical set up for a Western army like the Roman army. However he's talking about the Chinese army, it is not because the chess stones have Chinese writing on it that it is a good example of Chinese logistic and strategic thinking. When one really understand the Chinese thinking they would never present a chess but a Wei Yi board and stones (in Western country knon as 'go' ). He's speaking fluently Chinese and knows a lot about China, like a dictionary, ...but chess is Western thinking Wei Yi is Chinese. .
I love how you present your knowledge of Chinese weapons, culture, etc... especially incorporating Chinese in your explanation. Also your pronunciation is very authentic.
i wouldn't call it authentic. i can understand it but feels slightly awkward every now and then. i think its mostly on the "shǐ". the way he pronounced it sounded like a blend of "shǐ" and "shé". the 'v' sounds where it goes ↓ slightly and ↑is quite hard to get right though if you're not native Mandarin speaker. also at an disadvantage as how different English and Mandarin is. so overall i think it's really impressive how he can speak entire sentences without me struggling too hard to understand what he's saying. good job and keep up the good work (≧∇≦)b
Metatron my man, I learned more from you than my school taught me. You bring such energy and passion to your videos. Thank you for bringing the reality behind things such as history and weapons. Thanks dude, keep up the good work. I'll keep watching you and supporting your channel!!!!!
@@metatronytThe history channel is beholden to corporate interests, but the only interests you are beholden to are historical and authenticity. How else would we know that armor doesn't exist? ;)
The Han Chinese called Romans "Qin". "Qin" is also the Chinese dynasty before Han, it has the meaning of "Chinese". It is just like if the French call some foreign people as Gauls, because the French believe these people are as noble and brave as they are.
The word "China" is derived from Cin (چین), a Persian name for China popularized in Europe by Marco Polo. The first recorded use in English dates from 1555. In early usage, "china" as a term for porcelain was spelled differently from the name of the country, the two words being derived from separate Persian words. Both these words are derived from the Sanskrit word Cīna (चीन), used as a name for China as early as AD 150.
This is based on a single report from a Chinese military commander sent to explore the western region of Silk Road. He wrote back what he heard about Rome from its neighbors. It wasnt a widely held belief by other Chinese, because they had no contact other than this record of an exploration party. It's like Lewis and Clark writing back about the wonders of the native tribes in the Oregon territory.
Qin in Chinese doesn’t mean China, the Chinese called Rome Daqin/Great Qin Because Qin was a name to denote the direction of the Roman Empire(Because the most western Chinese state before Han dynasty was Qin). Therefore, Daqin is more like Great west rather than China, China during the Han dynasty was called 中國Zhongguo, which is still the name of this country today. That being said, Qin is still a quite prestigious name. Chinese don’t usually name other nations with their own former kingdoms and empire names unless they are seen as civilised and powerful…
it's sad to see that quality history content like this have less view and suscriber because nowadays kid love flexing and screaming people better than history metatron keep doing what ur doing it's amazing Thank You
An incredibly rare honor, and probably the only time in it's 2,000+ years of imperial rule has the "Middle Kingdom, the Center of the Earth and Civilization, ruler of all under Heaven" has referred to any other civilization as an equal. That speaks volumes of the legacy of Rome and Ancient China.
@@fluffymyato3334 Kind of? The information Rome had gotten about "China" was much less than the already vague information China had about Rome. Romans labeled an area called "Serez" which is on and off a vague image of probably not China, but the north-east steppe area around it. The only reason China had any information at all, is because they tried to establish contact, and got outdated information from the Parthians, and other merchants, which painted a grand picture of Rome and its people. The only information Romans officially had were from Silk and losing gold, and their complaint was that all their gold was disappearing because of Silk and other luxury imports from China which they considered immoral. They were running a trade deficit China (yes China making the world worry about trade deficits since 300BC) and therefore like everyone else to Rome, they might as well have considered China basically hostile for that reason alone. So that said, its not that they "didn't respect as much" rather than they didn't have any information other than "A very large Empire in the Far East makes silk, taking away our gold and making our women unmodest - they are hurting our economy and morals". So in that worldview, without any knowledge of their existence, the "Seres" might as well have been "probably more Parthians/Persian type folks and the like" That is really the only written thing about China.
@@KingR3aper its fun that a civilization as obsessed with writing everything down for future historians as the Romans where knew so Little about the only Empire that could compare to them. Altought the fact they were divided by the mongols might have had something to do with It.
@@inserisciunnome Mostly its just too far away to care about for both empires. Curious, maybe, but China was too far to touch, or directly effect Rome, and Rome was too far to touch or directly effect China. They definitely indirectly effected each other, but I think back then, that is too vast a distance to fully comprehend the scope of. Mongols didn't exist for another thousand years or so, but they were definitely divided by different Kingdoms like Parthians and Persians. By the time the Mongols rolled around, the Roman Empire as you know it was long gone, and Song China fell to the Mongols for about 90 years before finally kicking them out again, and by then they definitely knew of each other (Byzantines) and other Europeans.
This video is so educating! I'm a Chinese, I'm proud of the empires my ancestors built, and also admire the great Roman empire. Han dynasty had a lot of communications with Rome as far as my knowledges reach. I'd like to learn more about these two ancient civilizations!
@@taejo4975 Bruh, the Spanish is literally written all over Filipino “history,” and despite having been under Spain for much longer, the Latin Americans are the ones who are called Hispanic (I mean it’s probably because the culture is probably more influenced by Spanish and literally is the modern embodiment of “Spanish.”
@@jimboonie9885 the US has planes that can shoot down nukes the moment they are launched, effectively having them blow at the launch site. We have some deployed by north korea last I checked
***A Comparison of ancient Roman and ancient Chinese army styles.*** Both the ancient Chinese and the Roman army changed a lot and used many different tactics. The Roman army started off as levied hoplites fighting in classical hoplite formation similar to ancient Greeks. After suffering some defeats from more flexible enemies, they changed to the manipular system - the triplex acies. This turned the Republican Roman army into a more flexible combied arms force composed of hastati (less experienced, less wealthy first line infantry), principes (more experienced, wealthier infantry), and triarii (grizzled veteran elites equipped as spearmen) - and backed by velites (skirmishers), reserves (eg. rorarii), a cavalry component (equites), and occasionally allied auxillaries. The Republican Roman army during this time was also a conscripted levy milita that mostly disbanded after the war. The Roman state started to pay for the soldiers' equipment by the late 2nd century BC, and by 107 BC the Marian Reforms were part of the many reforms that slowly transformed this conscripted levied milita by recruiting more volunteers and providing more pay. By the era of Augustus, the army was transformed into a [mostly] professional standing army that fought for a living. Conscription was still used during times of need, of course. The Marian reforms also transformed the combined arms army composed of different unit types into a “more” uniformly (but not totally uniform) equipped heavy infantry legionaire (backed by auxillaries of a comparable number). However, by the late 2nd-3rd century, in response to new enemies in the east who fielded powerful cavalry (eg. Parthians, Sassanids, and later the Huns, etc), the Romans began to deemphasize heavy infantry in favor of more cavalry and a combined arms approach again. So the Romans went from heavy infantry army of hoplites to combined arms army back to heavy infantry army of legionaires with auxillary support and then back to a combined arms army against with more cavalry. Ancient Chinese armies also went through a lot of changes. Ancient Chinese armies went from chariot warfare dominated by elites (around 7th century BC) to massed infantry warfare composed of large infantry blocks and supported by cavalry (Warring States era around 5th century BC to late 3rd century BC). Massed chariot warfare had ceased - chariots were rarely used by this point, but were occasionally used as shock units or used as command posts. Crossbows had been invented, and were commonly used in conjunction with pikes, halberds, swords, etc. The longest Chinese pike weapons (eg. ~19-20 feet) are found during this era, with pikes comparable to the longest ones used by the Hellenistic kingdoms of Alexander's successor states. During the Han Dynasty, the Han learned that heavy infantry tactics was ineffective against steppe nomadic warriors as they could be easily outmaneuvered. So the Han created a giant mobile horse army composed of almost entirely cavalry and mobile infantry (mounted infantry that dismounted to fight). The Han also brought back the chariot by creating heavily armored chariot-wagons and linking them together into a wagon fort to defend against enemy cavalry charges. Some of the most powerful crossbows in Chinese history are found during the Han era, and crossbow tactics such as pike-crossbow formations and rotating volley fire formations were used (they used crossbows more effectively than later dynasties). So during time of the early Western Han era, heavy infantry were dominant, but to combat the Xiongnu nomads, they had to build an army composed of much more cavalry and mounted infantry. By the later Eastern Han Dynasty, the destruction/end of the Xiongnu Confederation as their main threat meant they were primarily fighting other settled peoples, so heavy infantry made a resurgence, and super heavy cavalry (horses that were fully armored) started become more and more common (though heavy cavalry with partially armored horses had already existed since the 3rd-2nd century BC). For example, you can take a look at the Donghai Armory slips for a basic idea of the weapons and armor of Han weapons in the 1st century BC - something like 5,000 sets of horse armor, over half a million crossbows, 100,000 double sided straight swords, 150,000 single sided sabers, 600k different types of polearms (including sword staffs, halberds/ji, spears, pikes/long lance 9 foot-18 feet), sha (ranseur-like weapons), axes and pole-axe type weapons, etc., 77k bows, several thousand other sword type weapons such as great swords, etc. By the late Western Han Dynasty, the most common/median-level standard infantry crossbow was a 6 stone (387 lbs) crossbow with what was probably a 18-19 inch powerstroke. So the Warring States to Han era armies went through lots of changes - from massed chariots to massed infantry, evolving into proto-pike and shot formations (of crossbows, pikemen, and other heavy infantry) with cavalry as support, to a significant mounted infantry and cavalry force (mostly light to medium hybrid cavalry but also armored heavy cavalry) with infantry support, and back to heavy infantry-centric formations with heavy cavalry support.
Can you compare principes (polybian) and legionaries (marian)? Did principes have generally more skill? Was the armor (hamata) the same? I think the legionary helmet was different and better vs some weapons...I couldn´t find some good comparison.
@@kolonkacity001 Polybian era Principes (especially mid-late Republic) and post-Marian Legionaires (late Republic and early to mid Imperial) are going to be very similar looking based on weapons and armor. They'll have similar looking pila, gladius, scutum, and chainmail/hamata, but there will still be different in the models of these equipment. Chainmail (riveted) is going to be the most common form of armor for both types of soldiers. You'll have some variations in the model of the shields (eg. concave oval vs concave rectangle), variations in pila, different types of gladius, etc. Helmets were different depending on the time, as the Romans had many variants of helmets that kept evolving. Wikipedia has a list of at least 5 helmets used by the Romans - you can start from there. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galea_(helmet) Here are some gladius variants: www.outfit4events.com/eur/articles/swords-bladed-weapons/gladius-roman-short-sword/
Tho the question still stands. Would The Chinese empire defeat the Roman empire? If it was at an area they don't know then it's far game. But if it's at their borders or in their lands. Then it's pretty 90% on which ever side depending whose defending. Also that I believe the Chinese empire really did a good job on improving their combat and formations plus the development of better troops and heavy cavalry. An army's core should be supplies, but also the variety of troops. For example 1. Heavy inf. Which are shock troops or is veterans on the front lines with heavy shields to stop the enemies from advancing. the other options light and medium tier inf. who are in the middle core or on the sides to support cavalry engagement. 2. Archers/crossbows the Chinese some time during the Qin? I believe had really good Archer core to combat other enemies and out doing their performances even tho they had good inf and cavalry units. But they mainly relied on their archers and crossbows corps. (Hope I'm not wrong... I will double check whenever I can) 3. Mercenaries of any kind, used to ambush or suicide troops (some commanders do that) 4. Good supply routes, protection) 5. Information gathering, scouts, spies, etc. 6. A good commander in chief and officer core plus director (adviser) 7. Repeat everything from the beginner.
In an empty "arena/map", I'd have to give it to the Han Empire for a few reasons. State of the art cavalry (Heavy lances combined with mounted archers), strong crossbowmen (regular archers included) trained to fire in mass volleys and large infantry formations with pikes to engage at a long melee distance. That's also not mentioning shielded swordsman units that train in wall formations as well. Although the shields were around half the size of a scutum, their swords quite long (European longsword blade length 34-36in) and somewhat narrow to have a dangerous thrust as well and that's also not including the era-appropriate dao (straight single edge). Artillery-wise, both empires had equally strong artillery but artillery back then was still pretty weak to really make a difference in a fight.
This is incredibly well made, I was anticipating something along the lines of a Total War simulation when I clicked, but this was awesome. Learned a lot!
The Han Dynasty is undoubtedly the hegemonic position of the East. At that time, Japan was still a tribal system. When the Emperor of the Han Dynasty first saw the messenger from Japan, he was very happy and curious because he had never seen an adult man 150 cm tall. The Japanese messengers brought some tributes, but these tributes are very simple, basically some rough leather and seafood. He gave the Japanese messenger a gold seal. Now this gold seal is kept in the Japanese Museum, which is the national treasure of Japan.
@Известный борщ бабушки Hahaha, China and Japan fought four wars. Japan lost three times. The first was in the Tang Dynasty, when the Japanese navy was completely destroyed. The second occurred in the Ming Dynasty, when China and Japan fought in Korea, and 200,000 Japanese troops were expelled from Korea. The third time, the Qing Dynasty and Japan, China was defeated in the naval war. Fourth, Japan's aggression was fragmented, China was still in the civil war, and finally Japan surrendered. As for height, it is false, which is related to nutrition. Modern China experienced a century of war suffering. The people were poor and their nutrition was not guaranteed. So people used to be short. But nowadays Chinese young people are very tall.Commodity quality, Ha-ha, China's Huawei let the United States declare a state of emergency. There is no company in any country that can be suppressed by a superpower. The products produced in China are of good quality. If you don't have money, you can only use bad-mouthed goods.
@Известный борщ бабушки Spicy Chicken Keyboard Man. You just make up stories. Sooner or later, China will be number one in the world. Are you so good? Why are Europeans beaten down by Mongolians and Turkic Huns from the East and called Daddy on their knees?
@MAKE EUROPE CLASSY AGAIN Votes are not democratic. For example, three people won two, so two people have to obey three people. Is this democracy??? This is the violence of the majority. The real democracy is the Draw lots system in which everyone has an opportunity.
@MAKE EUROPE CLASSY AGAIN Say more. What country is China? It has nothing to do with your Netherlands. Take care of yourselves. You are unknown and nobody to us in China.
The geography of China and Mediterranean are completely different. Roman had a calm inner lake - Mediterranean sea in the middle of their territory for large scale logistics, the Chinese had to depend complete on building roads and canals. That is why Romans found it easy to conqer north Africa but difficult to conqer north Europe. Even today it is still cheaper to transport goods from Europe to Asia from via ocean than land.
YiddoHuayi Southern China was originally inhabited by aboriginals that have quite different culture origin from the Han Chinese. U can see them as the “Goth” from a Chinese perspective.
The Mediterranean Sea was not a calm lake. Transportation by sea (especially open sea) was actually avoided when possible because rough storms were constantly sinking ships. Ships would generally stick to traveling close to the coasts too and would rarely venture into the open sea unless necessary. The Mediterranean Sea was more dangerous than the rivers and lakes of what is now China, but is less dangerous compared than the seas and oceans surrounding China. It was also easier to conquer North Africa because the Carthaginian population were clustered in cities that can be sieged and destroyed in one go. The tribes of Germany were much more spread out and engaged in guerrilla tactics, so it was much harder to pin them down and destroy them in one go. The Germanic Wars lasted for centuries because Rome could defeat a few tribes, but more tribes would pop up and invade.
In general it's a very good video, and I admire your effort, but I would like to point out a few minor errors regarding the info about ancient China: 1. Western Han already had large amounts of iron tools and iron weapons. In fact China already had those things in the Warring States period. The earliest evidence of iron lamellar armor that we have found so far in China is at the Yanxiadu archaeological site, which used to be the capital of the Yan state during the late Warring States period around 300 BC. We have found two iron lamellar helmets and some two hundred scattered iron lamellae pieces, as well as iron halberds and iron swords in the Yanxiadu tombs. 2. The halberd pictures you're showing are mostly Spring & Autumn or Warring States style bronze halberds. By the Western Han period iron halberds would be used. And those iron halberds are shaped slightly different than the bronze halberds; they are shaped like the character "卜", so Chinese historians also call it "卜字戟", meaning "halberd shaped like the character 卜".
I was going to comment about this. The introduction of iron tools and weapons is actually a very important factor in allowing the Qin to end the Warring States period and found the first Chinese empire. And Iron is a cheaper metal than copper, so once we developed the technology it took over relatively easily.
Chinese crossbows are so cool. I'm particularly fond of the Shuko-Nu. Yes it's not the most powerful crossbow in history. But the fact that they invented a SEMI-AUTOMATIC crossbow is a pretty darned respectable feat of engineering in my view.
@@sevenproxies4255 You need to be extra strong to use that weapon, but it is very good against light troops in a pair of strong hands. Just point at the general direction and spray.
The cho ko nu was a niche weapon. The standard Han crossbow was a 387lb drawweight + 20-21 inch powerstroke crossbow that was comparable in power to a European crossbow with a 1200lb draw weight and 6-7 inch powerstroke. (crossbow/bow power is determined by draw weight x powerstroke)
Incidentally, the Chinese did have a fight against the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom in 104-101 BC, which might give an excellent insight into a potential Roman v. Chinese battle. It was called the War of the Heavenly Horses, and focused entirely around the city of Ershi (a.k.a. Khujand). The first Chinese attempt to take the city failed largely because of poor logistical planning (crossing through the Taklamakan Desert was more costly than initially anticipated!) that left them too weak in numbers to do much. So they came back a second time with more troops and better logistics and settled in to siege the city. It took them 40 days to breech the walls, at which point the city's nobility immediately killed their king and offered up his severed head to the Chinese in hopes of leniency. Aside from taking a harshly large number of horses (which was why the Chinese were interested in the city in the first place), the treatment of the conquered city was otherwise fairly magnanimous.
The Greco-Bactrian Kingdom was pretty weak and didn't last that long compared to the other Hellenic nations. Too many enemies and too few allies. They didn't fight like the Romans either. Roman Empire vs Chinese Empire would probably be more like Rome vs Parthia/Sassanids, with a lot of stalemates and little conquest.
@@SepulchureValen '...be more like Rome vs Parthia/Sassanids, with a lot of stalemates and little conquest.' Not really, Parthia/Sassanids had a different military mentality than the Romans or Chinese. The Romans fielded large infantry armies and so did the Chinese. Parthia was more mobile and centered around cavalry. Roman and Chinese armies would have had decisive land battles that would result in either force losing and being forced into their cities for sieges.
@@brent.robinson Romans had decisive battles against the Parthians/Sassanids. Problem is, distance. Under the rule of Trajan, the Parthians were ruled by a roman puppet called Parthamaspates which didn't last very long. Rome would sack Parthia's capital yet again under Septimius Severus. However they did not subjugate Parthia, and Parthia was overrun by the Sassanids. Neither Rome nor China would be able to control each other. If one of them were weak they would get overrun. Atilla overran Rome, Genghis Khan overran China. Roman rule over China, or vice versa would only be temporary. It would most likely be under 100 years too. I can't imagine either of them ruling over each other longer than the British could rule over India. The distance, cultural clash and neighboring enemies would be far too great.
Nicely thought out. The deep logistics of the Roman empire were simplified by the Mediterranean. Projecting force across the length of the Silk Road ... I don't think either empire could have given that serious consideration until Persia was entirely subdued. If Alexander had lived to a ripe old age, would he have continued East or tuned around and headed West?
He can't even if he did his army was slowly dying out of fatigue to the point that he relied on the Eastern Persian forces and mercenaries if he wanted to go forward.
@@ousamadearudesuwa You have a point. I should have speculated on what he might have wished to have done, not on what he would have done. He might simply have stayed in Persia. History does not reveal its alternatives ...
I am so glad you covered the usage of the Great Wall as a means to project an invasion- especially during northern expeditions. In ancient China, especially the Han, the Great Wall was very crucial in the wars against the Xiongnu and other steppe peoples such as the Xianbei and Wuhuan. The Han Great Walls were not only useful all the way until the Jin dynasty~ and the beginning of the Sixteen Kingdoms period where many nomadic people rushed into northern China, but it was used by the steppe nomads in later centuries as their own walls against other steppe invaders as well. The Xianbei of the Northern Wei began as steppe nomads but quickly assimilated into Chinese culture and became very "Chinese" in their ways, eventually massively relied on the Great Wall for their own defense~ ironically against many other steppe peoples. In fact, their capital at Datong, located in Shanxi was essentially a wall fort practically in the shadows of the walls. The Ballad of Mulan was written during their reign. Even during the late Sui and early Tang the Great Wall still served as a defensive line- and Datong one of its most important passes.
Can't say much, the architect of the wall built it on a very strategic location that eventually it is used again and again even until this day. Consider it like how the British used the english channel as their natural moat.
the great wall was not a means to protect against an invasion at least in the short term. Until Genghis Khan the primary threat was a series of many raids carried out by independent mongol clans who might loosely be united but would launch their own raids. This explains why didn't the Mongols either go around the wall or breach it at a point? they weren't aiming for invasion. This also explains why certain portions of the great wall face both north and south
Great video! One thing you could have covered more was the Chinese practice of corvee labor and military conscription for Chinese peasants in the Western Han period, which gave way to a volunteer based system in the Eastern Han period. They also had a small professional standing army of 10,000, the Northern Army (Beijun). After Marius, the Roman legions on the other hand were professional career citizen infantry soldiers backed by foreign and allied auxiliaries helping with cavalry and missile troops. The. Han had advantage in cavalry and crossbows, but the Romans had the advantage in having more professional heavy infantry on average. Both had impressive siege engines.
Eric Connor Han dynasty also have a lot of professional infantry. Actually the worst part of Han dynasty army is the cavalry. To solve this problem, Han Wu emperor spent the whole country’s power and source on it. Finally they made it.The infantry is a traditional advantage of Han.
w素月墨羽 yep, but roman infantry was still far ahead... the legions if lead by good commanders like Scipio, Marius, Caesar, Claudius, Trajan and other ones were literally unstoppable
As a Chinese, I learned the grand history of the Roman Empire by myself. And the trajectory of history really resonates and reminds me of how ancient people were actually alike, how they fought to survive against the cruelty of time. Here is one takeaway when I studied the Roman Empire: It is known to all that "All roads lead to Rome". There is actually a better way to put it, "All Roads are built from Rome, rather than to Rome." Han Dynasty is also famous for being one end of the silk road. The history repeats itself and it shows that humanity as a whole benefit from better connections.
Otto Leider Brits don’t. We’re rather culturally apathetic when it comes to broadening our scope of communication outside English. There’s this misplaced idea that there’s no need since it’s an internationally used language. Of course I’m being overly broad and simplistic. This isn’t the case with every British person obviously.
Given that the world has a lot more Mandarin speakers than English speakers, I would predict that English will eventually get overtaken by Mandarin, maybe.
When it comes to logistics, you should also look at canal construction, which took a more instrumental function in Han logistics than it did for Roman logistics. Roman roads were built of much higher quality material than Chinese ones, but Chinese roads were much wider. I point to the great Qin roads in which the widest parts were 60 meters in width. Wide roads help offset the problem with moving large armies, this problem is the long marching line. Han shields changed over time. The Han shields you mentioned were the type used during the very early Han, contemporary to the Punic Wars. Those shields got bigger in just 100 years (mid-Western Han), from about 2/3 to 3/4 the size of a scutum. The Eastern Han started to use another type of shield. They were probably a little higher than the scutum, but half as wide. Feel free to check the 临淄山王庄兵马俑 to look at mid-Western Han shields. The shield grips between Han and Roman shields were also different. Roman shield grips allowed them to carry a heavy but relatively static shield. Han shield grips couldn't allow them to carry as large a shield, but it did allow them to maneuver the shield around better.
@Valor Warrior , Metatron mentions that the ancient Chinese also had logistics, heavy equipment, and tactical formations. And the ChoKoNu was a niche weapon that was not commonly used. The Han's most common crossbow was a "standard" crossbow that had 387lb draw weight + 21 inch powerstroke that was roughly equivalent in power to a winch drawn medieval European crossbow with a 1200lb draw weight and a 7 inch powerstroke. The Han Dynasty also had pike and crossbow formations similar to the pike and shot/crossbow armies of the European Renaissance, and formations such as rotating volley fire crossbow formations. Read works by Rafe de Crespigny and other translated works - you'll find out that the Han armies were a combined arms army composed of many different types of infantry such as crossbowmen, archers, halberdiers, pikemen, swordsmen, etc and backed up by a large cavalry contingent.
I think a video explaining the armor and weapons of both Romans and Chinese would be amazing. I was hoping to hear more about Crossbows and Dagger Axes, while at the same time, hearing something about Chinese Auxiliary forces such as horse archers from the north, or Barbarians from the south. Still a great video and gives a great vision on both empires. Also.... shouldn't the Wheelbarrow give the Chinese any points for logistics? +
@@withastickangrywhiteman2822 Well, i was mostly referring to the Nanman since their life style was much more different compare to the Vietnamese people who at the time, attempted to mimic the Han Empire. Still, i should have been more clear, whoops.
You know? there was a time Japanese called Westerners as Nanman too, because Portuguese landed on South Japan. They also called their own barbarians Ainus as Maoman or Hairyman. They think Portuguese really look like Ainus haha
It is true. the Portuguese surely look like Ainus, Not only so, but they all have a lot of hair! Just compare old photos, upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/AinuGroup.JPG i.pinimg.com/736x/66/a3/9a/66a39a5893ddfe8c5ae6655b58421e08--hipster-tattoo-big-beard.jpg
I feel like metetron is what happens when you get a master's degree in history to be a teacher then decide to do awesome videos instead because no one but the viewers will appreciate it.
Really interesting stuff. I wonder whether they would fight - Consider the large buffer zone between them and the difficulty crossing. I suggest neither could project power to drive into the other empire's heartland. It's interesting to view the power of each civilisation's culture. Later in History China was conquered by Mongols, and suffered several switches of dynasty, but the new leaders always assimilated to a Chinese culture. Conquer China, become Chinese. By contrast Rome adopted cultures: Christianity, replaced the old gods relatively peacefully. The legions became increasingly African and German in extraction. Later the Eastern Roman Empire reverted to a Hellenistic culture. Conquer lands and inherit their culture.
yeah, Rome very much kept their militaristic culture after they adopted Christianity (never expanding to spread religion though, although they thought their gods where scientific compared to the world since they thought they where physical and included them in all their sciences). Leading to when other European nations got Christianity, going to war to spread Christianity. When the first Christians who lived in the Israel area where very much taught to show unconditional kindness for people even if they harm them directly (with the whole "turn the other cheek for them to slap again till they feel bad enough to stop" mentality). First making people in Rome think they where crazy and their religion superstitious. But then enamoring certain roman leaders after a while with their preaching since romans didn't really preach but really just "taught" about their own gods. And then the rest happened, I find the empirical fact based history or the spread of religions interesting.
I would freakin kill to have someone like Metatron as a friend and/or a teacher. Dude is super chill, super educated on world history, warfare, arms and armor, and speaks like 5 different languages. Just a 1 in a billion kind of man.
Thats impossible, since his comparison is on the same time period. Japan at this time period are just primitive tribal kingdoms compared to the Chinese empires. He even made a video about the evolution of the ancient japanese military pre-Heian and post-Heian period.
@@-Zevin- he means impossible compared Roman and Japanese army. 1St, a proper good Japanese army formed during 1500-1600 which means gun and canon were introduced to japanese.How can Roman against the gun. Also during this era, Japan(Heian Period of Japan) Japan doesn't have any military unit at all. Because this period, Japanese just starting introduced better farming and agriculture technology.
@@kingraptor6338 Well yeah i just don't understand that i guess, i figure it is a much better sense to have countries of similar time periods in a comparison. It's like modern marines with rifles fighting people with 500 year old technology. Especially when you are talking about Sengoku Jidai Japan against Romans from 1,500 years before. Don't get me wrong i know Japan at this time was a absolute powerhouse. One of my favorite history facts is during the beginning of Sengoku Jidai there was essentially no guns in japan, by the end of Sengoku Jidai there were more guns in Japan than all of Europe combined. That is Japanese ingenuity and work ethic. However there were other countries of that time period that would have been better compared to Japan. Renaissance Italy, Britain, Spain, China, Ottoman empire, etc. I agree with Metatron for comparing two nations of a similar time period, it's just Japan and and the Roman empire wasn't a even close match. Now Rome and China was.
Worth pointing out: The Chinese had a better understanding of metallurgy and had superior iron in every single way to the Romans, generally. The Chinese understood how to make iron stronger and more resistant to rust, while the Romans simply thought that certain areas of the empire yielded superior iron - which was true, but they didn't understand that they themselves could make similar quality iron during the production process of arms and armor. Romans imported products made of Chinese iron, and understood its superiority, but there was no 'ore trade' that would have enabled them to use it in making their military equipment. I've read a book that points that perhaps at the battle of Carrhae the Parthians had arrows made of Chinese iron that shredded the armor of the legionaries. On top of all the other tactical advantages the Parthians had at that battle, add in that and you have the makings of a complete disaster for Rome. Given that Parthia is a big reason why there was so little contact between Rome and the Han, and the fact that Parthians could have easier and more direct access to the Han, it makes more sense for them to have had either learned the 'ancient Chinese secret' or have had equipment directly shipped to them. There was also a plague in I believe northern China at the time of the Antonine Plague. It's possible that it originated there and was spread through trade routes to mesopotamia, and then the legions fighting there. So for those keeping track: Black Death, SARS, Swine Flu, COVID-19 and possibly even the Antonine Plague...all originating from a place that has had an absurd amount of human beings living in one area for millenia. Nice...
About the bio weapons section. China had her own plagues, plague broke out in the China shortly after the start of the Antonine plague. There were also frequent reports of malaria, typhoid and tuberculosis breakouts. I mainly read this from the Book of Later Han.
China had a lot of experience dealing with plagues, at least control it, not let it spare too much. we still drinking only boiled water until today. And you wonder why. (malaria)@@julesbrags1661
@@julesbrags1661 Ancient Chinese focuses and excel in all fields, not just weapons, and they've been plagued by outbreaks through its history, but always successfully manage them. They have procedures in place to quarantine infected cities, burns the bodies of the dead, and has prescriptions to treat the infected. Nothing has ever blown to the proportion of the bubonic plague in Europe. The bubonic plague did reach China and killed up to 20%, but they contained it while this same disease killed up to 60% in Europe. I agree with the person above. Ancient Chinese people (even the peasant class) only drink boiled water, preferably with tea, to prevent disease and illnesses. Chinese study medicine extensively and had doctors in every town, while other cultures were still going to the witch in the forest for a mystery brew. They invented paper, printing press, compass, clock, silk, brick, pottery, banking, civil service examination, canals, the good old toilet paper, and way too many inventions to mention. In short, the Chinese focus in everything and warfare weaponry is just a part of it.
dear Metatron, I am Chinese and your knowledge of China is amazing! where did you learn Chinese from? ive heard you spoke many languages and when you started speaking Chinese my jaw dropped.
Awesome video! I watched a lot of what if military analysis videos and this one took many factors into in depth consideration without blindly coming to some random conclusion.
Fascinating commentary. I appreciate especially the inclusion of the biological element - shades of Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel. This is, of course, an impossible exercise, but just for fun it would have been interesting to consider the interaction of the Roman versus Chinese Han tactics, military doctrine and organizational structure. The Romans were very, very good at battlefield tactics, and the highly disciplined, professional Roman legionaries probably had a significant edge over their Han counterparts in melee. On the other hand, the Han may have an advantage over the Romans in terms of cavalry and missile weapons. Both the Romans and the Huns relied heavily on allied or mercenary troops, but it may be difficult finding enough sources to make a meaningful comparison. Also, it is impossible to discuss Roman logistics without considering the role of the Mediterranean, or Mare Nostrum - our sea - as the Romans called it. Rome did really well in expanding all around the Mediterranean. They often got in trouble when they went far beyond their sea lines of communication - cf. the battle of Teutonburgerwald against the Germans or Carrhae against the Parthians. The Han had plenty of experience fighting against central Asian peoples - beginning with the Xiongnu, who they defeated, while the Romans lost multiple times against the Huns until with the help of their Germani allies they defeated or at least brought to a stand still the forces of Attila at the battle of Chalons. Fun video. Thanks!
I love that you are pronouncing the historical chinese names correctly. For a mandarin speaker like me, hearing the anglicized versions of these names is utterly confusing and difficult to keep track of.
Well Persia got spanked by Aleksander, they got shit done in their own territory, but the fact that they got taken over by a force from a tiny country is pathetic.
Today Chinese still regard themselves as Han. European do not call themselves Romans. That's the different between these two empires. I'm SIngaporean. I'm Han chinese. Our identity glued us together.
@@samlee-lo1qx I dare say only mainland europeans, people from little asia and from the various islands near europe (Ireland, Great Britain, the many mediteranean Islands and maybe Iceland) identify themselves as europeans. Heritage conflicts have been one of the main war reasons for the last two world wars, which we europeans so "kindly" started. I see the conflict potential, once different asian people discover their need for cultural identity, i simply hope it will not result in such big conflict potential as the european need for cultural identity brought. peace
@@samlee-lo1qx I give a damn, and I escaped from the mainland during the revolution in '49. Having a tribal/clan identity is what makes all of us humans what we are...part of a family, a clan, an ethnic group. An Apache is a member of the North American indigenous peoples but I believe that he is very proud of his Apache status, so it is with a German or an Ashanti or a Bantu, every one is or should be proud of who they are.
I like the increase in production value. I quite like how you change location frequently in this video, and how everything seems to be researched into redundancy. Great job on this one, keep it up.
It would essentially be a Cold War, whomever attacked first would lose the war, in order for such an event to occur, Parthia would have to been subdued by either one of these factions. The huge issue of this occurance would be the fact that one side would half to go through all of the Middle East. If you think about the battle of the heavenly horses, China suffered significant losses even trying to get to the Greco-Bactrians which wouldn’t even be half of the journey. I doubt either faction would be able to attack the other due to both being able to defend their territories. This would undoubtedly end in either a truce or a Cold War of sorts. Both would be too strong to wipe out the other. Even if one faction did in fact defeat the other, they would not be able to hold those claims just due to distance, if the Mongols couldn’t hold their empire together for a long period of time while being in the 1500s. I doubt either faction could.
@@julesbrags1661 I can agree they lost numbers traveling through the desert territory. But you don't think they would have found other routes or created a supply depot system that would allow that type of travel. The Han did not properly plan for the war of the heavenly horses and that is what lead to its defeat in my opinion.
@@julesbrags1661 I agree with your assessment of Han logistics and overall attitude about expansion. Yet ill have to say the Romans did have limits to expansion. They were continuously bogged down on places like Germany fighting a bunch of small scale wars that drained it's ambitions for conquest for the rest of northern and eastern Europe. The Persians also used home terrain and hit and run tactics that denied Romans set piece battles.
Absolutely fantastic. I liked that you involved discussion of culture and logistics which too many "what if" thinkers ignore. There's two things I wish you touched upon though: 1) Era Division : while it's very reasonable to use the Han dynasty as the frame of comparison, it's important to note that the Han was an administrative state rather than militarist/expansive state, with exception of during Emperor Wu's reign. Despite better technology, the Han military actually compare poorly against its predecessor, the Qin kingdom/dynasty. The reason was because the Qin state was organized for warfare, with an absolute meritocracy that promoted battlefield valor as the primary means of social mobility (similar to the importance of battlefield glory as the shortest path to political office in Republican Rome). Being of semi-nomadic descent yet renowned for the battlefield discipline of their heavy infantry and the massive barrages of their missile troops, the Qin literally had no weakness when it came to their armies. In this context, it would have been nice to compare the Qin vs Republican/early Imperial Rome, and Han dynasty vs late Imperial Rome/Eastern Roman Empire (which were more focused on ruling rather than expanding). 2) Doctrine : China prioritized the use of strategic and operational warfare over the Roman's use of tactical warfare. Due to China's large population and early use of general mobilization/total war, armies often swelled to astronomical sizes, and it was far more efficient to break the enemy's morale/logistics rather than engage in head-on clashes. Thus Chinese doctrine emphasized the use of maneuver to cut enemy communications/supplies and surround/flank on a strategic level rather than on tactical dimensions, and to use asymmetric warfare wherever possible (ambushes, camp raids, fire/water attacks, etc.). Everyone knows about the Battle of Cannae where Hannibal double-enveloped 80,000 Romans which was considered a brilliance of maneuver. Few people know about the Battle of Changping where Qin General Bai Qi enveloped 400,000 Zhao troops, an army so large he had to surround an entire river valley and lay siege to the surrounded enemies for 46 days.
This is a long shot seeing how old your post is, but I’ll ask anyway. How did the Chinese supply, recruit and train such large numbers? Were they able to recruit from tributary states and provinces and still expect complete loyalty?
@@Hawko1313 That is a really interesting question to which I don't read enough Chinese history to answer. The closest answers I can come up with are: (1) The Chinese institutionalized war earlier than any other country. They basically invented conscription and mass mobilization, and established the concept of a "strong state" for the purpose of waging war better. (2) Chinese infrastructure has a scale on its own. Sure, the Romans were famous for their roadbuilding. But the center of their empire was the Mediterreanean, which was prone to storms. The Chinese centered their infrastructure on the massive river networks of East Asia and connected them with canals. Boats will always carry more than carts.
A question regarding hereditary titles in Rome: isn't it also true that the hereditary nature of these titles and positions wasn't necessarily tied to bloodlines? A roman emperor could adopt junior members of nobility as sons, to which they didn't even have familial ties and these adopted sons did inherit the office rather than the emperors biological sons. At least from what I've read.
Absolutely in fact.. that was the case for most succession. A notable example of the son of the previous emperor being emperor however was Commudus.. it didn’t go well.
Seems to me that if these two empires had clashed, the winner would be the one that adapted best. Rome started to use mounted archers after being defeated by the Parthians. After Hannibal's, and later Pyrrus's, Elephants had been used to rout Roman legions, the Romans started to use anti-elephant tactics (spikes, fire, javelins). And I'm sure the Chinese adopted their enemies' tactics and weapons too. So if the Han Chinese inflicted heavy damage against the legions using crossbows, for example, you can bet there would soon be crossbow units in the legions.
Han defeated Xiong Nu, Xiong Nu defeated Huns, Huns defeated Germans, and Germans Defeated Rome. Then at Poitier the western allies defeated Attilla. That's the fact of 200 years.
By the gods he finally did it, noble ones! Metatron has finally tackled the Roman Empire versus the Chinese Han Empire, although the latter encompasses much of the Roman republican period as well (with the ending of the Second Punic War). The Chinese Three Kingdoms period mirrored the Crisis of the Third Century in Rome, while the unified Jin Dynasty and disastrous Sixteen Kingdoms period in China coincided with unified rule of Constantine I and splitting of Rome into the Western Roman Empire and Eastern Roman Empire.
For one, the Han armies also had artisans to build stuff. The Chinese emperors' power grew over the years and the concentration of power was the greatest from Song dynasty and onwards. Before that, their powers were often checked by the powerful bureaucrats. If I am not mistaken, the Roman emperor's power concentration also grew over the years. Perhaps, at the time of Western Han dynasty, the Roman rulers would have less power than the Chinese emperors. By the time of Emperor Wu of Western Han dynasty, steel equipment was more common than bronze equipment already. When Segmentata was introduced, the Eastern Han dynasty's equipment was also different from the Western Han dynasty equipment. Eastern Han dynasty armors and weapons, according to the archaeological evidence, were more like the picture you showed on 18:25. When people compare the two empires' war equipment, they are always comparing Rome in the AD 1st-3rd century and China in the warring states period 5th century B.C. to the Han dynasty of 2nd century B.C. For shields, the Chinese did have shields in the similar size and shape to the Roman Scutum during the warring states period or possibly even the Spring and Autumn period. Just search up "warring states shield". During the Western Han dynasty the Chinese had a smaller shield but longer swords than the Romans, and starting from the Eastern Han dynasty the Chinese shields became larger. Also, it is not like the two empires would continue their ways and stay the same over time if they see a problem. And I don't think the Romans would finish conquering China in one campaign. It would be a war more like Parthia and Rome which spanned for years. The Osprey illustrations also did a poor job illustrating the Chinese armors and weaponry. In addition, the pictures shown in this video covered several dynasties, not just the Han dynasty. The "king of weapons" had several versions. According to the records, the most historically accurate "king" was probably bows and crossbows. And for all honesty, I think before we go too far, we should take a look at the geographical barrier first. From that, we can already deduce no war will ever start from these two empires. In addition, Chang'an, the capital of Western Han, was hidden in rings of mountain ranges. To go there, the Roman army would have to fight all the way to the Tong pass (潼关), which is situated at the east of Chang'an, before you can even enter the Guanzhong Plain. In my opinion, that is an impossible task unless the Romans were literally living in China. But if you live in China, all weaponry and military ways would be quite similar so that there won't be any comparison to make. And this is also true the other way around. Look at the difficulty level of attacking Europe from Asia. It would be extremely difficult to penetrate into the Italian peninsula from land, and to move large armies across the sea to Italy from China seemed even less probable. Also, rice was not the main staple back in the Han dynasty.
Someone from Raytheon was showing me how the ancient Chinese used thick layering of silk to deflect arrows, under their laminar armors. Lost art that really worked in tests. Something to think about, I wondered how these kung fu mysteries would have worked against spears and sorts.
Appreciate your excellent content and the hard work you put into this gift that you give us! Not gonna lie I also love when you call us your noble listeners!😍
How did Romans cook back then? No Pizza, no Pasta, maybe they grilled their food? In China Wok frying only became common after the Han era, it's so unimaginable how they ate back then.
If you interested about it read "De Agricoltura" of Cato the censor. There is a cookbook. Mainly the romans cooked dough based on bread, olive oil, cheeses, aromatic herbs. They eat vegetables, actually some were considered panaceas such as cabbage and mostly seasoned breads were the ancestors of pizza, and laganae were ancestor of the lasagna. There were many vegetables (as I've mentioned), meats and sauces (the most famous was the garum).
Okay, I was already a fan of Metatron because of his amazing Latin (wanna learn Latin someday) but he also speaks Chinese? (HSK5 learner here). He's amazing!
Any tips for a beginner like me? I'm gonna have my first Chinese exam in a few months, I still know less than 200 characters and I'm planning to reach 400+ before the exam. What are some things you wish you knew sooner? (Btw I have a European background, my native language is Italian)
A historical book of China once recorded that "there is a country called DaQin.The people there are tall and dignified, the country is rich and the life is harmonious." What is certain is that this country called Daqin is the Roman Empire.
I love this video (I've seen it three times xD). I'm really interested in Chinese and Roman history so I am really happy to find a video with so much content. Sadly there's no so much information about this topic in Spanish. :')
En España no hay mucho interes en historia por desgracia. Tardas menos en aprender ingles que en encontrar informacion historica fiable en español. :'(
na, Egypt and Mycenae had access to blue pigments from as early as the 3rd millennium BC. what was rare was tyrian purple, which was exclusively gotten from some sea shell thing (my memory fails me I'm afraid.) although it was still used.
Hello Metatron. Thank you for the video, great job. Roman Empire(Principate) vs Han China is one of few civilizations that can be directly compared. However, you are, understandably, biased toward your ancestors.
First time I have watched ur videos.... congrats, you are doing a great job and serving an excellent purpose. Your skill with speaking multiple 6languages is amazing!
He speaks classic latin, mandarin, and english in this video with a minimal accent.
None of those are his first language. That's insane.
hmm, yes amazing....maybe he is a time traveler....
He’s also fluent in Japanese. Idk how he’s so good
Are you American?
Yea I was thinking the same thing. Very impressive seeing as mandarin and Latin have basically no dialectical similarities.
His chinese pronunciation is 5/5!
How the Chinese patriots view the Roman Empire:
Rome was a joke; they couldn't stand before Atilla's nomadic army; a so-called Empire couldn't they deal with the German tribes and the Picts; two Roman legions crushed by the Germans pathetically; Rome got stormed and looted by barbarians over and over again etc etc.......
How the Italian patriots view the Han Empire:
The Han Empire was a joke; how could them be on a par with almighty Rome? the emperor married his daughter to the barbarians to make peace with them; the emperor himself stupidly stepped into Xiong Nu's trap and almost got captured; it took the Han army 100 hundred years to deal with Qiang's rebellion etc etc......
How Rome and the Chinese actually viewed each other in history:
Romans: 'The region of the Seres (China) is a vast and populous country...... The people are civilized, mild, just, and frugal, eschewing collisions with their neighbours, and even shy of close intercourse, but not averse to dispose of their own products, of which raw silk is the staple, but which include also silk-stuffs, fine furs, and iron of remarkable quality.' (classical geographers summarised by Yule')
Chinese: 'Their kings are not permanent rulers, but they appoint men of merit. When a severe calamity visits the country or untimely rain-storms, the king is deposed and replaced by another. The one relieved from his duties submits to his degradation without a murmur. The inhabitants of that country are tall and well-proportioned, somewhat like the Han [Chinese], whence they are called [Daqin]' ('The Book of the Later Han')
In summary:
Romans and Chinese actually admired each other, somehow nowadays a lot of netizens always put them into opposing sides.
This is funny because it's true. Most of the time when the debates on these two empire gets escalated, it becomes a dick measuring contest between the people arguing instead of the actual merits of Rome and Han.
If i'm not mistaken, can't exactly remember where, but the Han empire knew of Rome and admired the rumor of Romans being honest trader. Some tomb found in the region now known as China had Roman coins, and some historical account mention the Han empire trying to make contact with Rome, but the Kushan, and Parthia empire kept running the messenger from the Han empire in circle to prevent the two mammoth from making contact with each other.
@@tabinekoman No, ordinary citizen see blond as animal that time.😂Like elf？
@@JohnKasarinlan haha then the chinese always lose
True, but sadly that's what happens when you talk about the 2 most powerful nations of their day. It's also why I asked the Metatron to make the comparison in last week's video & someone else, who would probably be more biased. Unlike most people the Metatron has respect for & knowledge about both western AND eastern cultures of that time.
The Chinese when they met Rome: Ooh, Other China!
The Romans when they met China: Where the fuck are my gold going?
Ask women.
Romans gold was going to India for spices, luxury clothes, ivory etc.
@@ttt9618 both India and China
India or Parthia using chinese goods
very funny
"Hi, i'm the Roman Empire"
"Hi, i'm the Chinese Empire"
"We're both strong and ready to fight, what should we do?"
"You take care of the west and i take care of the east?!"
"Deal. Have a good day sir."
"Thank you, you too."
"Oh yeah, I want your silk."
"And I want your concrete."
And the Silk Road was paved with concrete, and it was good.
Both sides at once: "shall we beat up the Parthians?"
I wonder if the Romans would consider Chinese women to be beautiful enough to forge marriage alliances with...?
Michael McCabe
if most Men find Asiatic Women beautiful and seek to marry them in 2019 then I don't doubt it.
Aleni Melis standards of beauty change over time, asians considered Europeans ugly when they first encountered them, it took hundreds to thousands of years to see them as beautiful.
Spectacular. Worth watching every minute of this. Some of the finest educational content on TH-cam.
I did not expect to see you here, Mr. Archery.
@@elmohead He used to be Mr. Warthunder :(
@@dayton8282 Till he got his ass served by Shadeversity
Underrated is a word I use.
@@vincentlee7359 Lol hardly. Shad created his own draw which medieval people were using 500 years ago. Hes a clown
As a native speaker it’s interesting to see an Italian speaks so perfect Chinese 😂😂
Why did you write your username with v's in Gaius and Octavius but you used u's in Augustus and Filius?
@@Danymok username was taken.
@@robodoge3004 I don't think this is a thing in youtube
I'm Chinese and even I can't be as fluent...
@@curtiswong7280 wow I didn't know he was that good at Chinese. He's very good at Japanese but he tries to speak it so fast that we can hear an Italian intonation coming through.
Now THIS is a video I'm going to watch in my recliner with a cup of coffee. Metatron, people like you are precisely the reason why Paetron exist, because you give us academic level quality stuff that is beautifully presented, passionately delivered, and not, well... insert boring History channel video here.
I'm glad to hear that!
And he’s a hell of a lot more accurate than the History Channel. Doesn’t try to fool us with fake history that sounds interesting for the sake of getting more viewers.
What about Jake Paul asking for donations lol
And this is good 🙂
I´m sorry, but this video is made very poorly. It is more radio with a few extra pictures. It is giving a lot of information but it has no real good structure. Too many weak points to mention them all, so just one typical example. While he´s talking about logistics he starts to play chess at 11:45 ...yes it is the Chinese variation of chess, but chess is a very simple game. You have one army that fights against another army straight on. Between the two armies there's water. That is a typical set up for a Western army like the Roman army. However he's talking about the Chinese army, it is not because the chess stones have Chinese writing on it that it is a good example of Chinese logistic and strategic thinking.
When one really understand the Chinese thinking they would never present a chess but a Wei Yi board and stones (in Western country knon as 'go' ). He's speaking fluently Chinese and knows a lot about China, like a dictionary, ...but chess is Western thinking Wei Yi is Chinese.
.
I love how you present your knowledge of Chinese weapons, culture, etc... especially incorporating Chinese in your explanation. Also your pronunciation is very authentic.
Xie xie!
i wouldn't call it authentic. i can understand it but feels slightly awkward every now and then. i think its mostly on the "shǐ". the way he pronounced it sounded like a blend of "shǐ" and "shé". the 'v' sounds where it goes ↓ slightly and ↑is quite hard to get right though if you're not native Mandarin speaker. also at an disadvantage as how different English and Mandarin is. so overall i think it's really impressive how he can speak entire sentences without me struggling too hard to understand what he's saying. good job and keep up the good work
(≧∇≦)b
His Chinese is better than my Chinese
@@ricbo358 I imagine his Chinese is on par with his English with a pronounced Sicilian Italian accent.
@@halo12390 hows your engrish and itarian?
So impressed by Metatron’s commitment to pronounce Latin and Mandarin faithfully
😊
Metatron my man, I learned more from you than my school taught me. You bring such energy and passion to your videos. Thank you for bringing the reality behind things such as history and weapons. Thanks dude, keep up the good work. I'll keep watching you and supporting your channel!!!!!
I'm glad to hear that friend
@@metatronytThe history channel is beholden to corporate interests, but the only interests you are beholden to are historical and authenticity. How else would we know that armor doesn't exist? ;)
The Han Chinese called Romans "Qin". "Qin" is also the Chinese dynasty before Han, it has the meaning of "Chinese". It is just like if the French call some foreign people as Gauls, because the French believe these people are as noble and brave as they are.
Latin for China was Sina from Qin; they don’t have the “Ch” or “Q” sound in Latin.
Daqin or Liqian, not alone Qin.
The word "China" is derived from Cin (چین), a Persian name for China popularized in Europe by Marco Polo. The first recorded use in English dates from 1555. In early usage, "china" as a term for porcelain was spelled differently from the name of the country, the two words being derived from separate Persian words. Both these words are derived from the Sanskrit word Cīna (चीन), used as a name for China as early as AD 150.
This is based on a single report from a Chinese military commander sent to explore the western region of Silk Road. He wrote back what he heard about Rome from its neighbors. It wasnt a widely held belief by other Chinese, because they had no contact other than this record of an exploration party. It's like Lewis and Clark writing back about the wonders of the native tribes in the Oregon territory.
Qin in Chinese doesn’t mean China, the Chinese called Rome Daqin/Great Qin Because Qin was a name to denote the direction of the Roman Empire(Because the most western Chinese state before Han dynasty was Qin). Therefore, Daqin is more like Great west rather than China, China during the Han dynasty was called 中國Zhongguo, which is still the name of this country today. That being said, Qin is still a quite prestigious name. Chinese don’t usually name other nations with their own former kingdoms and empire names unless they are seen as civilised and powerful…
My gosh, being a Malaysian Chinese listening to Metatron speaking Chinese is such an amazing feeling.
Just discovered you and subbed instantly
it's sad to see that quality history content like this have less view and suscriber because nowadays kid love flexing and screaming people better than history metatron keep doing what ur doing it's amazing Thank You
I will thanks!
r u a chinese ?u r awesome.know much about china history.
I'm a kid and I watched this and I love history
@@BraydenLondon88 Good job.Teach your friends as well
@@WhiteSage2 I try...
Fun fact the ancient chinese referred to rome as "Other china"
An incredibly rare honor, and probably the only time in it's 2,000+ years of imperial rule has the "Middle Kingdom, the Center of the Earth and Civilization, ruler of all under Heaven" has referred to any other civilization as an equal. That speaks volumes of the legacy of Rome and Ancient China.
@@KingR3aper correct me if im wrong but the romans didnt respect the chinese as much right? If so, that's kinda funny
@@fluffymyato3334 Kind of? The information Rome had gotten about "China" was much less than the already vague information China had about Rome. Romans labeled an area called "Serez" which is on and off a vague image of probably not China, but the north-east steppe area around it.
The only reason China had any information at all, is because they tried to establish contact, and got outdated information from the Parthians, and other merchants, which painted a grand picture of Rome and its people.
The only information Romans officially had were from Silk and losing gold, and their complaint was that all their gold was disappearing because of Silk and other luxury imports from China which they considered immoral. They were running a trade deficit China (yes China making the world worry about trade deficits since 300BC) and therefore like everyone else to Rome, they might as well have considered China basically hostile for that reason alone.
So that said, its not that they "didn't respect as much" rather than they didn't have any information other than "A very large Empire in the Far East makes silk, taking away our gold and making our women unmodest - they are hurting our economy and morals". So in that worldview, without any knowledge of their existence, the "Seres" might as well have been "probably more Parthians/Persian type folks and the like"
That is really the only written thing about China.
@@KingR3aper its fun that a civilization as obsessed with writing everything down for future historians as the Romans where knew so Little about the only Empire that could compare to them.
Altought the fact they were divided by the mongols might have had something to do with It.
@@inserisciunnome Mostly its just too far away to care about for both empires. Curious, maybe, but China was too far to touch, or directly effect Rome, and Rome was too far to touch or directly effect China. They definitely indirectly effected each other, but I think back then, that is too vast a distance to fully comprehend the scope of. Mongols didn't exist for another thousand years or so, but they were definitely divided by different Kingdoms like Parthians and Persians.
By the time the Mongols rolled around, the Roman Empire as you know it was long gone, and Song China fell to the Mongols for about 90 years before finally kicking them out again, and by then they definitely knew of each other (Byzantines) and other Europeans.
This video is so educating! I'm a Chinese, I'm proud of the empires my ancestors built, and also admire the great Roman empire. Han dynasty had a lot of communications with Rome as far as my knowledges reach. I'd like to learn more about these two ancient civilizations!
As a Filipino, I am truly proud of my Spanish ancestors for conquering the Philippines for almost or over 350 years 🤣🤣🤣
@@JellyAntz 😂😂 I only know the Philippines had bunch of tribes and I think a foreign Muslim kingdom
@@taejo4975 Bruh, the Spanish is literally written all over Filipino “history,” and despite having been under Spain for much longer, the Latin Americans are the ones who are called Hispanic (I mean it’s probably because the culture is probably more influenced by Spanish and literally is the modern embodiment of “Spanish.”
@@JellyAntz as a Mexican I too am proud of my Spanish heritage and see us as brothers with the same dad
@@JellyAntz im Mexican. We are new Spain 🇪🇸
"There is no military without economy"
North Korea - "am I a joke to you?"
Rest of the world - yes
Haha but North Korea is really powerful
@@thepaintrainC0t0 Nukes unfortunately
Everyone gangsta until they get nuked lol
@@hopelfreyamikaelson9348 that's fucking hilarious that you think that
@@jimboonie9885 the US has planes that can shoot down nukes the moment they are launched, effectively having them blow at the launch site. We have some deployed by north korea last I checked
Your Chinese pronunciation is very accurate! Looks like you really did a lot of research.
Good work, keep going.
kind of
Your Chinese is semi-perfect! In fact, one of the best ones I’ve heard from a foreigner for a long time!
This is one of the best TH-cam channels on the site!
Glad to hear that!
Hell yeah it is XD
no japanese av channel is
***A Comparison of ancient Roman and ancient Chinese army styles.*** Both the ancient Chinese and the Roman army changed a lot and used many different tactics. The Roman army started off as levied hoplites fighting in classical hoplite formation similar to ancient Greeks. After suffering some defeats from more flexible enemies, they changed to the manipular system - the triplex acies. This turned the Republican Roman army into a more flexible combied arms force composed of hastati (less experienced, less wealthy first line infantry), principes (more experienced, wealthier infantry), and triarii (grizzled veteran elites equipped as spearmen) - and backed by velites (skirmishers), reserves (eg. rorarii), a cavalry component (equites), and occasionally allied auxillaries. The Republican Roman army during this time was also a conscripted levy milita that mostly disbanded after the war. The Roman state started to pay for the soldiers' equipment by the late 2nd century BC, and by 107 BC the Marian Reforms were part of the many reforms that slowly transformed this conscripted levied milita by recruiting more volunteers and providing more pay. By the era of Augustus, the army was transformed into a [mostly] professional standing army that fought for a living. Conscription was still used during times of need, of course. The Marian reforms also transformed the combined arms army composed of different unit types into a “more” uniformly (but not totally uniform) equipped heavy infantry legionaire (backed by auxillaries of a comparable number). However, by the late 2nd-3rd century, in response to new enemies in the east who fielded powerful cavalry (eg. Parthians, Sassanids, and later the Huns, etc), the Romans began to deemphasize heavy infantry in favor of more cavalry and a combined arms approach again. So the Romans went from heavy infantry army of hoplites to combined arms army back to heavy infantry army of legionaires with auxillary support and then back to a combined arms army against with more cavalry.
Ancient Chinese armies also went through a lot of changes. Ancient Chinese armies went from chariot warfare dominated by elites (around 7th century BC) to massed infantry warfare composed of large infantry blocks and supported by cavalry (Warring States era around 5th century BC to late 3rd century BC). Massed chariot warfare had ceased - chariots were rarely used by this point, but were occasionally used as shock units or used as command posts. Crossbows had been invented, and were commonly used in conjunction with pikes, halberds, swords, etc. The longest Chinese pike weapons (eg. ~19-20 feet) are found during this era, with pikes comparable to the longest ones used by the Hellenistic kingdoms of Alexander's successor states. During the Han Dynasty, the Han learned that heavy infantry tactics was ineffective against steppe nomadic warriors as they could be easily outmaneuvered. So the Han created a giant mobile horse army composed of almost entirely cavalry and mobile infantry (mounted infantry that dismounted to fight). The Han also brought back the chariot by creating heavily armored chariot-wagons and linking them together into a wagon fort to defend against enemy cavalry charges. Some of the most powerful crossbows in Chinese history are found during the Han era, and crossbow tactics such as pike-crossbow formations and rotating volley fire formations were used (they used crossbows more effectively than later dynasties). So during time of the early Western Han era, heavy infantry were dominant, but to combat the Xiongnu nomads, they had to build an army composed of much more cavalry and mounted infantry. By the later Eastern Han Dynasty, the destruction/end of the Xiongnu Confederation as their main threat meant they were primarily fighting other settled peoples, so heavy infantry made a resurgence, and super heavy cavalry (horses that were fully armored) started become more and more common (though heavy cavalry with partially armored horses had already existed since the 3rd-2nd century BC). For example, you can take a look at the Donghai Armory slips for a basic idea of the weapons and armor of Han weapons in the 1st century BC - something like 5,000 sets of horse armor, over half a million crossbows, 100,000 double sided straight swords, 150,000 single sided sabers, 600k different types of polearms (including sword staffs, halberds/ji, spears, pikes/long lance 9 foot-18 feet), sha (ranseur-like weapons), axes and pole-axe type weapons, etc., 77k bows, several thousand other sword type weapons such as great swords, etc. By the late Western Han Dynasty, the most common/median-level standard infantry crossbow was a 6 stone (387 lbs) crossbow with what was probably a 18-19 inch powerstroke. So the Warring States to Han era armies went through lots of changes - from massed chariots to massed infantry, evolving into proto-pike and shot formations (of crossbows, pikemen, and other heavy infantry) with cavalry as support, to a significant mounted infantry and cavalry force (mostly light to medium hybrid cavalry but also armored heavy cavalry) with infantry support, and back to heavy infantry-centric formations with heavy cavalry support.
Can you compare principes (polybian) and legionaries (marian)? Did principes have generally more skill? Was the armor (hamata) the same? I think the legionary helmet was different and better vs some weapons...I couldn´t find some good comparison.
@@kolonkacity001 Polybian era Principes (especially mid-late Republic) and post-Marian Legionaires (late Republic and early to mid Imperial) are going to be very similar looking based on weapons and armor. They'll have similar looking pila, gladius, scutum, and chainmail/hamata, but there will still be different in the models of these equipment. Chainmail (riveted) is going to be the most common form of armor for both types of soldiers. You'll have some variations in the model of the shields (eg. concave oval vs concave rectangle), variations in pila, different types of gladius, etc. Helmets were different depending on the time, as the Romans had many variants of helmets that kept evolving. Wikipedia has a list of at least 5 helmets used by the Romans - you can start from there. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galea_(helmet)
Here are some gladius variants: www.outfit4events.com/eur/articles/swords-bladed-weapons/gladius-roman-short-sword/
Fantastic post on a fantastic video.
Tho the question still stands.
Would The Chinese empire defeat the Roman empire?
If it was at an area they don't know then it's far game. But if it's at their borders or in their lands. Then it's pretty 90% on which ever side depending whose defending.
Also that I believe the Chinese empire really did a good job on improving their combat and formations plus the development of better troops and heavy cavalry.
An army's core should be supplies, but also the variety of troops.
For example
1. Heavy inf. Which are shock troops or is veterans on the front lines with heavy shields to stop the enemies from advancing. the other options light and medium tier inf. who are in the middle core or on the sides to support cavalry engagement.
2. Archers/crossbows the Chinese some time during the Qin? I believe had really good Archer core to combat other enemies and out doing their performances even tho they had good inf and cavalry units. But they mainly relied on their archers and crossbows corps. (Hope I'm not wrong... I will double check whenever I can)
3. Mercenaries of any kind, used to ambush or suicide troops (some commanders do that)
4. Good supply routes, protection)
5. Information gathering, scouts, spies, etc.
6. A good commander in chief and officer core plus director (adviser)
7. Repeat everything from the beginner.
In an empty "arena/map", I'd have to give it to the Han Empire for a few reasons. State of the art cavalry (Heavy lances combined with mounted archers), strong crossbowmen (regular archers included) trained to fire in mass volleys and large infantry formations with pikes to engage at a long melee distance.
That's also not mentioning shielded swordsman units that train in wall formations as well. Although the shields were around half the size of a scutum, their swords quite long (European longsword blade length 34-36in) and somewhat narrow to have a dangerous thrust as well and that's also not including the era-appropriate dao (straight single edge).
Artillery-wise, both empires had equally strong artillery but artillery back then was still pretty weak to really make a difference in a fight.
This is incredibly well made, I was anticipating something along the lines of a Total War simulation when I clicked, but this was awesome. Learned a lot!
The Han Dynasty is undoubtedly the hegemonic position of the East. At that time, Japan was still a tribal system. When the Emperor of the Han Dynasty first saw the messenger from Japan, he was very happy and curious because he had never seen an adult man 150 cm tall. The Japanese messengers brought some tributes, but these tributes are very simple, basically some rough leather and seafood. He gave the Japanese messenger a gold seal. Now this gold seal is kept in the Japanese Museum, which is the national treasure of Japan.
Japan is still a tribal system, only today its a tributary state to america instead of China.
@Известный борщ бабушки Hahaha, China and Japan fought four wars. Japan lost three times. The first was in the Tang Dynasty, when the Japanese navy was completely destroyed. The second occurred in the Ming Dynasty, when China and Japan fought in Korea, and 200,000 Japanese troops were expelled from Korea. The third time, the Qing Dynasty and Japan, China was defeated in the naval war. Fourth, Japan's aggression was fragmented, China was still in the civil war, and finally Japan surrendered. As for height, it is false, which is related to nutrition. Modern China experienced a century of war suffering. The people were poor and their nutrition was not guaranteed. So people used to be short. But nowadays Chinese young people are very tall.Commodity quality, Ha-ha, China's Huawei let the United States declare a state of emergency. There is no company in any country that can be suppressed by a superpower. The products produced in China are of good quality. If you don't have money, you can only use bad-mouthed goods.
@Известный борщ бабушки Spicy Chicken Keyboard Man. You just make up stories. Sooner or later, China will be number one in the world. Are you so good? Why are Europeans beaten down by Mongolians and Turkic Huns from the East and called Daddy on their knees?
@MAKE EUROPE CLASSY AGAIN Votes are not democratic. For example, three people won two, so two people have to obey three people. Is this democracy??? This is the violence of the majority. The real democracy is the Draw lots system in which everyone has an opportunity.
@MAKE EUROPE CLASSY AGAIN Say more. What country is China? It has nothing to do with your Netherlands. Take care of yourselves. You are unknown and nobody to us in China.
The geography of China and Mediterranean are completely different.
Roman had a calm inner lake - Mediterranean sea in the middle of their territory for large scale logistics, the Chinese had to depend complete on building roads and canals. That is why Romans found it easy to conqer north Africa but difficult to conqer north Europe.
Even today it is still cheaper to transport goods from Europe to Asia from via ocean than land.
And northern Europe had Goths...(not emos)
Indeed, it took Dynasties centuries to conquer and sinofied the southern China.
YiddoHuayi Southern China was originally inhabited by aboriginals that have quite different culture origin from the Han Chinese. U can see them as the “Goth” from a Chinese perspective.
The Mediterranean Sea was not a calm lake. Transportation by sea (especially open sea) was actually avoided when possible because rough storms were constantly sinking ships. Ships would generally stick to traveling close to the coasts too and would rarely venture into the open sea unless necessary. The Mediterranean Sea was more dangerous than the rivers and lakes of what is now China, but is less dangerous compared than the seas and oceans surrounding China. It was also easier to conquer North Africa because the Carthaginian population were clustered in cities that can be sieged and destroyed in one go. The tribes of Germany were much more spread out and engaged in guerrilla tactics, so it was much harder to pin them down and destroy them in one go. The Germanic Wars lasted for centuries because Rome could defeat a few tribes, but more tribes would pop up and invade.
@@Intranetusagood point.
In general it's a very good video, and I admire your effort, but I would like to point out a few minor errors regarding the info about ancient China:
1. Western Han already had large amounts of iron tools and iron weapons. In fact China already had those things in the Warring States period. The earliest evidence of iron lamellar armor that we have found so far in China is at the Yanxiadu archaeological site, which used to be the capital of the Yan state during the late Warring States period around 300 BC. We have found two iron lamellar helmets and some two hundred scattered iron lamellae pieces, as well as iron halberds and iron swords in the Yanxiadu tombs.
2. The halberd pictures you're showing are mostly Spring & Autumn or Warring States style bronze halberds. By the Western Han period iron halberds would be used. And those iron halberds are shaped slightly different than the bronze halberds; they are shaped like the character "卜", so Chinese historians also call it "卜字戟", meaning "halberd shaped like the character 卜".
Great ! , thx a lot
I was going to comment about this. The introduction of iron tools and weapons is actually a very important factor in allowing the Qin to end the Warring States period and found the first Chinese empire. And Iron is a cheaper metal than copper, so once we developed the technology it took over relatively easily.
Chinese crossbows are so cool. I'm particularly fond of the Shuko-Nu. Yes it's not the most powerful crossbow in history. But the fact that they invented a SEMI-AUTOMATIC crossbow is a pretty darned respectable feat of engineering in my view.
have fun firing that repeatedly, you need to be very strong.
@@peiranzhang4283: And soldiers aren't expected to be strong?
@@sevenproxies4255 You need to be extra strong to use that weapon, but it is very good against light troops in a pair of strong hands. Just point at the general direction and spray.
I think the most significant invention of the Han Dynasty was papermaking.
The cho ko nu was a niche weapon. The standard Han crossbow was a 387lb drawweight + 20-21 inch powerstroke crossbow that was comparable in power to a European crossbow with a 1200lb draw weight and 6-7 inch powerstroke. (crossbow/bow power is determined by draw weight x powerstroke)
>Dedicate tons of money and time to a documentary-level quality video
>Only 10% of your subs watch it
Tezz Gamelord those muppets are missing out
Almost 100% now
14:21
The Virign Modern Pavement VS The Chad Roman Road
Incidentally, the Chinese did have a fight against the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom in 104-101 BC, which might give an excellent insight into a potential Roman v. Chinese battle. It was called the War of the Heavenly Horses, and focused entirely around the city of Ershi (a.k.a. Khujand). The first Chinese attempt to take the city failed largely because of poor logistical planning (crossing through the Taklamakan Desert was more costly than initially anticipated!) that left them too weak in numbers to do much. So they came back a second time with more troops and better logistics and settled in to siege the city. It took them 40 days to breech the walls, at which point the city's nobility immediately killed their king and offered up his severed head to the Chinese in hopes of leniency. Aside from taking a harshly large number of horses (which was why the Chinese were interested in the city in the first place), the treatment of the conquered city was otherwise fairly magnanimous.
Kings and generals talked abou that.
The Greco-Bactrian Kingdom was pretty weak and didn't last that long compared to the other Hellenic nations. Too many enemies and too few allies. They didn't fight like the Romans either.
Roman Empire vs Chinese Empire would probably be more like Rome vs Parthia/Sassanids, with a lot of stalemates and little conquest.
This is interesting but unfortunately does not help, because the Romans have beaten all the hellenistic successor kingdoms.
@@SepulchureValen
'...be more like Rome vs Parthia/Sassanids, with a lot of stalemates and little conquest.'
Not really, Parthia/Sassanids had a different military mentality than the Romans or Chinese. The Romans fielded large infantry armies and so did the Chinese. Parthia was more mobile and centered around cavalry.
Roman and Chinese armies would have had decisive land battles that would result in either force losing and being forced into their cities for sieges.
@@brent.robinson Romans had decisive battles against the Parthians/Sassanids. Problem is, distance. Under the rule of Trajan, the Parthians were ruled by a roman puppet called Parthamaspates which didn't last very long. Rome would sack Parthia's capital yet again under Septimius Severus. However they did not subjugate Parthia, and Parthia was overrun by the Sassanids. Neither Rome nor China would be able to control each other. If one of them were weak they would get overrun. Atilla overran Rome, Genghis Khan overran China.
Roman rule over China, or vice versa would only be temporary. It would most likely be under 100 years too. I can't imagine either of them ruling over each other longer than the British could rule over India. The distance, cultural clash and neighboring enemies would be far too great.
So shad has officially become a meme now.
Good for him =) I love his videos too.
*MACHICOLATIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONZZSSSAAAA!!!!!!!*
Kyros Droztamyr thank you! I cannot stand Shad and his dumb face. Seeing it in this video almost ruined my day.
@Kyros Droztamyr Isn't Metatron larping too?
WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS!?
Video suggestion: the evolution of a channel. Your channel has always been interesting, but the quality has grown massively. Well done!
I'm 16 minutes in and ran out of popcorn!
Ahahahah
you cut your hair ;/
imortalone_prestome what
Metatron
fatass
Nicely thought out. The deep logistics of the Roman empire were simplified by the Mediterranean. Projecting force across the length of the Silk Road ... I don't think either empire could have given that serious consideration until Persia was entirely subdued. If Alexander had lived to a ripe old age, would he have continued East or tuned around and headed West?
He can't even if he did his army was slowly dying out of fatigue to the point that he relied on the Eastern Persian forces and mercenaries if he wanted to go forward.
@@ousamadearudesuwa You have a point. I should have speculated on what he might have wished to have done, not on what he would have done. He might simply have stayed in Persia. History does not reveal its alternatives ...
@@ousamadearudesuwa He could recruit other soldier.
Alexander had plans to invade Arabia and Carthage before his early death
alexander was thinking of going west after he returned to persia just before his death.
Your videos are extraordinarily concise and informative. A real joy to see your passion.
I am so glad you covered the usage of the Great Wall as a means to project an invasion- especially during northern expeditions. In ancient China, especially the Han, the Great Wall was very crucial in the wars against the Xiongnu and other steppe peoples such as the Xianbei and Wuhuan. The Han Great Walls were not only useful all the way until the Jin dynasty~ and the beginning of the Sixteen Kingdoms period where many nomadic people rushed into northern China, but it was used by the steppe nomads in later centuries as their own walls against other steppe invaders as well.
The Xianbei of the Northern Wei began as steppe nomads but quickly assimilated into Chinese culture and became very "Chinese" in their ways, eventually massively relied on the Great Wall for their own defense~ ironically against many other steppe peoples. In fact, their capital at Datong, located in Shanxi was essentially a wall fort practically in the shadows of the walls. The Ballad of Mulan was written during their reign.
Even during the late Sui and early Tang the Great Wall still served as a defensive line- and Datong one of its most important passes.
Chinese crush Xiong Nu (Hun) and Hun crush Roman...
Can't say much, the architect of the wall built it on a very strategic location that eventually it is used again and again even until this day. Consider it like how the British used the english channel as their natural moat.
@@ewinrizal there is no evidence that hun was descended from xiongnu. it is just a speculation from some chinese historians.
the great wall was not a means to protect against an invasion at least in the short term.
Until Genghis Khan the primary threat was a series of many raids carried out by independent mongol clans who might loosely be united but would launch their own raids.
This explains why didn't the Mongols either go around the wall or breach it at a point? they weren't aiming for invasion.
This also explains why certain portions of the great wall face both north and south
@@issacnewton9019 Even if not directly related, they were both nomads.
Great video! One thing you could have covered more was the Chinese practice of corvee labor and military conscription for Chinese peasants in the Western Han period, which gave way to a volunteer based system in the Eastern Han period. They also had a small professional standing army of 10,000, the Northern Army (Beijun). After Marius, the Roman legions on the other hand were professional career citizen infantry soldiers backed by foreign and allied auxiliaries helping with cavalry and missile troops. The. Han had advantage in cavalry and crossbows, but the Romans had the advantage in having more professional heavy infantry on average. Both had impressive siege engines.
Eric Connor Han dynasty also have a lot of professional infantry. Actually the worst part of Han dynasty army is the cavalry. To solve this problem, Han Wu emperor spent the whole country’s power and source on it. Finally they made it.The infantry is a traditional advantage of Han.
Heavy weapons and mobile troops vs heavy troops and not so heavy weapons, success depends on terrain
w素月墨羽 yep, but roman infantry was still far ahead... the legions if lead by good commanders like Scipio, Marius, Caesar, Claudius, Trajan and other ones were literally unstoppable
As a Chinese, I learned the grand history of the Roman Empire by myself. And the trajectory of history really resonates and reminds me of how ancient people were actually alike, how they fought to survive against the cruelty of time. Here is one takeaway when I studied the Roman Empire: It is known to all that "All roads lead to Rome". There is actually a better way to put it, "All Roads are built from Rome, rather than to Rome." Han Dynasty is also famous for being one end of the silk road. The history repeats itself and it shows that humanity as a whole benefit from better connections.
I knew you spoke Japanese, I didn't know you spoke Chinese as well. That's really cool! :D
He is European they all speak like 30 languages
Otto Leider Brits don’t. We’re rather culturally apathetic when it comes to broadening our scope of communication outside English. There’s this misplaced idea that there’s no need since it’s an internationally used language. Of course I’m being overly broad and simplistic. This isn’t the case with every British person obviously.
Yeah he knows Mandarin but he doesn't speak it as nearly as fluently as Japanese.
Given that the world has a lot more Mandarin speakers than English speakers, I would predict that English will eventually get overtaken by Mandarin, maybe.
English is making more progress than Mandarin. In both China and Taiwan English is growing faster than Mandarin is growing in other places.
When it comes to logistics, you should also look at canal construction, which took a more instrumental function in Han logistics than it did for Roman logistics. Roman roads were built of much higher quality material than Chinese ones, but Chinese roads were much wider. I point to the great Qin roads in which the widest parts were 60 meters in width. Wide roads help offset the problem with moving large armies, this problem is the long marching line.
Han shields changed over time. The Han shields you mentioned were the type used during the very early Han, contemporary to the Punic Wars. Those shields got bigger in just 100 years (mid-Western Han), from about 2/3 to 3/4 the size of a scutum. The Eastern Han started to use another type of shield. They were probably a little higher than the scutum, but half as wide. Feel free to check the 临淄山王庄兵马俑 to look at mid-Western Han shields. The shield grips between Han and Roman shields were also different. Roman shield grips allowed them to carry a heavy but relatively static shield. Han shield grips couldn't allow them to carry as large a shield, but it did allow them to maneuver the shield around better.
13:42 Illegal move there :P. In order for the 'pao' or 'cannon' piece to hop over another piece, there has to be an opponent piece where it lands.
@Valor Warrior
, Metatron mentions that the ancient Chinese also had logistics, heavy equipment, and tactical formations. And the ChoKoNu was a niche weapon that was not commonly used. The Han's most common crossbow was a "standard" crossbow that had 387lb draw weight + 21 inch powerstroke that was roughly equivalent in power to a winch drawn medieval European crossbow with a 1200lb draw weight and a 7 inch powerstroke. The Han Dynasty also had pike and crossbow formations similar to the pike and shot/crossbow armies of the European Renaissance, and formations such as rotating volley fire crossbow formations. Read works by Rafe de Crespigny and other translated works - you'll find out that the Han armies were a combined arms army composed of many different types of infantry such as crossbowmen, archers, halberdiers, pikemen, swordsmen, etc and backed up by a large cavalry contingent.
I think a video explaining the armor and weapons of both Romans and Chinese would be amazing. I was hoping to hear more about Crossbows and Dagger Axes, while at the same time, hearing something about Chinese Auxiliary forces such as horse archers from the north, or Barbarians from the south. Still a great video and gives a great vision on both empires.
Also.... shouldn't the Wheelbarrow give the Chinese any points for logistics? +
Look up History Scavenger he has a few videos you'll like.
@@withastickangrywhiteman2822 Well, i was mostly referring to the Nanman since their life style was much more different compare to the Vietnamese people who at the time, attempted to mimic the Han Empire. Still, i should have been more clear, whoops.
You know? there was a time Japanese called Westerners as Nanman too, because Portuguese landed on South Japan. They also called their own barbarians Ainus as Maoman or Hairyman. They think Portuguese really look like Ainus haha
@@withastickangrywhiteman2822 Portuguese people got hairy ainus LMAO
It is true. the Portuguese surely look like Ainus, Not only so, but they all have a lot of hair! Just compare old photos, upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/AinuGroup.JPG i.pinimg.com/736x/66/a3/9a/66a39a5893ddfe8c5ae6655b58421e08--hipster-tattoo-big-beard.jpg
Things I've Learned From This Video: 1: Ancient China Is Pretty Cool And I Should Learn More About It. 2: Nobles Have 2 Heads.
I feel like metetron is what happens when you get a master's degree in history to be a teacher then decide to do awesome videos instead because no one but the viewers will appreciate it.
Oh look, another Metatron video, great.
*Breaks out into fluent Chinese*
Wait, what? Did I set the language preferences wrong?
You are really a mine if empirical evidence and information on ancient history. Love your chanel.
Really interesting stuff.
I wonder whether they would fight - Consider the large buffer zone between them and the difficulty crossing.
I suggest neither could project power to drive into the other empire's heartland.
It's interesting to view the power of each civilisation's culture.
Later in History China was conquered by Mongols, and suffered several switches of dynasty, but the new leaders always assimilated to a Chinese culture.
Conquer China, become Chinese.
By contrast Rome adopted cultures: Christianity, replaced the old gods relatively peacefully.
The legions became increasingly African and German in extraction.
Later the Eastern Roman Empire reverted to a Hellenistic culture.
Conquer lands and inherit their culture.
yeah, Rome very much kept their militaristic culture after they adopted Christianity (never expanding to spread religion though, although they thought their gods where scientific compared to the world since they thought they where physical and included them in all their sciences). Leading to when other European nations got Christianity, going to war to spread Christianity. When the first Christians who lived in the Israel area where very much taught to show unconditional kindness for people even if they harm them directly (with the whole "turn the other cheek for them to slap again till they feel bad enough to stop" mentality). First making people in Rome think they where crazy and their religion superstitious. But then enamoring certain roman leaders after a while with their preaching since romans didn't really preach but really just "taught" about their own gods. And then the rest happened, I find the empirical fact based history or the spread of religions interesting.
A video dedicated to Chinese weapons
I would totally watch that
Can you make that
I would pay you
Hmm wanna do a collab together
I would freakin kill to have someone like Metatron as a friend and/or a teacher. Dude is super chill, super educated on world history, warfare, arms and armor, and speaks like 5 different languages. Just a 1 in a billion kind of man.
I think we all have this friend, who is kinda cool erudite and racist at the same time 😝
Commented about exactly this on the Japan vs Roman Empire video, awesome stuff as always Metatron.
Thats impossible, since his comparison is on the same time period. Japan at this time period are just primitive tribal kingdoms compared to the Chinese empires. He even made a video about the evolution of the ancient japanese military pre-Heian and post-Heian period.
@@jansenjunaedi4926 Not sure I understand what you are trying to say.
@@-Zevin- he means impossible compared Roman and Japanese army. 1St, a proper good Japanese army formed during 1500-1600 which means gun and canon were introduced to japanese.How can Roman against the gun. Also during this era, Japan(Heian Period of Japan) Japan doesn't have any military unit at all. Because this period, Japanese just starting introduced better farming and agriculture technology.
@@kingraptor6338 Well yeah i just don't understand that i guess, i figure it is a much better sense to have countries of similar time periods in a comparison. It's like modern marines with rifles fighting people with 500 year old technology. Especially when you are talking about Sengoku Jidai Japan against Romans from 1,500 years before. Don't get me wrong i know Japan at this time was a absolute powerhouse. One of my favorite history facts is during the beginning of Sengoku Jidai there was essentially no guns in japan, by the end of Sengoku Jidai there were more guns in Japan than all of Europe combined. That is Japanese ingenuity and work ethic.
However there were other countries of that time period that would have been better compared to Japan. Renaissance Italy, Britain, Spain, China, Ottoman empire, etc. I agree with Metatron for comparing two nations of a similar time period, it's just Japan and and the Roman empire wasn't a even close match. Now Rome and China was.
compare the Japan and China at that time is just like US modern army to Hawaiian tribes.
Worth pointing out: The Chinese had a better understanding of metallurgy and had superior iron in every single way to the Romans, generally. The Chinese understood how to make iron stronger and more resistant to rust, while the Romans simply thought that certain areas of the empire yielded superior iron - which was true, but they didn't understand that they themselves could make similar quality iron during the production process of arms and armor. Romans imported products made of Chinese iron, and understood its superiority, but there was no 'ore trade' that would have enabled them to use it in making their military equipment. I've read a book that points that perhaps at the battle of Carrhae the Parthians had arrows made of Chinese iron that shredded the armor of the legionaries. On top of all the other tactical advantages the Parthians had at that battle, add in that and you have the makings of a complete disaster for Rome. Given that Parthia is a big reason why there was so little contact between Rome and the Han, and the fact that Parthians could have easier and more direct access to the Han, it makes more sense for them to have had either learned the 'ancient Chinese secret' or have had equipment directly shipped to them.
There was also a plague in I believe northern China at the time of the Antonine Plague. It's possible that it originated there and was spread through trade routes to mesopotamia, and then the legions fighting there. So for those keeping track: Black Death, SARS, Swine Flu, COVID-19 and possibly even the Antonine Plague...all originating from a place that has had an absurd amount of human beings living in one area for millenia. Nice...
Congratulations! Very high quality (and interesting) video.
About the bio weapons section. China had her own plagues, plague broke out in the China shortly after the start of the Antonine plague. There were also frequent reports of malaria, typhoid and tuberculosis breakouts. I mainly read this from the Book of Later Han.
China had a lot of experience dealing with plagues, at least control it, not let it spare too much. we still drinking only boiled water until today. And you wonder why. (malaria)@@julesbrags1661
@@julesbrags1661 Ancient Chinese focuses and excel in all fields, not just weapons, and they've been plagued by outbreaks through its history, but always successfully manage them. They have procedures in place to quarantine infected cities, burns the bodies of the dead, and has prescriptions to treat the infected. Nothing has ever blown to the proportion of the bubonic plague in Europe. The bubonic plague did reach China and killed up to 20%, but they contained it while this same disease killed up to 60% in Europe. I agree with the person above. Ancient Chinese people (even the peasant class) only drink boiled water, preferably with tea, to prevent disease and illnesses.
Chinese study medicine extensively and had doctors in every town, while other cultures were still going to the witch in the forest for a mystery brew. They invented paper, printing press, compass, clock, silk, brick, pottery, banking, civil service examination, canals, the good old toilet paper, and way too many inventions to mention. In short, the Chinese focus in everything and warfare weaponry is just a part of it.
@@dorawang5451 you said it very correctly, my parents and relatives drink boiled water only,
@@dahliad4560 Most ppl don't know how great traditional Chinese medicine played in the old times. Thx you so much
Dahlia D Boiled water does not prevent illness, it does make you feel good though. It’s totally irrelevant to preventing illness though.
dear Metatron, I am Chinese and your knowledge of China is amazing! where did you learn Chinese from? ive heard you spoke many languages and when you started speaking Chinese my jaw dropped.
Awesome video! I watched a lot of what if military analysis videos and this one took many factors into in depth consideration without blindly coming to some random conclusion.
Fascinating commentary. I appreciate especially the inclusion of the biological element - shades of Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel. This is, of course, an impossible exercise, but just for fun it would have been interesting to consider the interaction of the Roman versus Chinese Han tactics, military doctrine and organizational structure. The Romans were very, very good at battlefield tactics, and the highly disciplined, professional Roman legionaries probably had a significant edge over their Han counterparts in melee. On the other hand, the Han may have an advantage over the Romans in terms of cavalry and missile weapons. Both the Romans and the Huns relied heavily on allied or mercenary troops, but it may be difficult finding enough sources to make a meaningful comparison.
Also, it is impossible to discuss Roman logistics without considering the role of the Mediterranean, or Mare Nostrum - our sea - as the Romans called it. Rome did really well in expanding all around the Mediterranean. They often got in trouble when they went far beyond their sea lines of communication - cf. the battle of Teutonburgerwald against the Germans or Carrhae against the Parthians. The Han had plenty of experience fighting against central Asian peoples - beginning with the Xiongnu, who they defeated, while the Romans lost multiple times against the Huns until with the help of their Germani allies they defeated or at least brought to a stand still the forces of Attila at the battle of Chalons.
Fun video. Thanks!
Why do I love the "Scientist Metatron" so much? I can't help it.
I love that you are pronouncing the historical chinese names correctly. For a mandarin speaker like me, hearing the anglicized versions of these names is utterly confusing and difficult to keep track of.
*The Persian Empire would to know your location.*
Macedonia has joined the chat room.
Persia was the carrier of eastern and Western civilization
Well Persia got spanked by Aleksander, they got shit done in their own territory, but the fact that they got taken over by a force from a tiny country is pathetic.
@Rios Salvajes Persians are dead since islam unfortunately
@Rios Salvajes
That's right. Kids like that think they "know history" because they only watched one movie loosely based on reality.
Holy shit did not expect Metatron to speak Chinese. Pretty accurate too!
Thank you for doing such a wonderful job. I absolutely enjoyed it. I listened to this on the way to work and made my day go a lot faster
I didn't realize you spoke Chinese as well, that's quite an accomplishment
High quality video :)) doctor raf is super 😎. VERY GOOD JOB🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🐼
@Wild Fang I need more Patreons supporters.... I actually lost some :(
@Wild Fang lol not Because that hahah
There was a video game in the past with this exact concept of putting Han vs Roman, great video, excellent information.
Today Chinese still regard themselves as Han. European do not call themselves Romans. That's the different between these two empires. I'm SIngaporean. I'm Han chinese. Our identity glued us together.
But half of the world still uses a form of the Roman alphabet.
only mainlandor still addresses themselfs as han,other chinese ethinc regions or countires don give a damn whether we r han or not
@@samlee-lo1qx I dare say only mainland europeans, people from little asia and from the various islands near europe (Ireland, Great Britain, the many mediteranean Islands and maybe Iceland) identify themselves as europeans. Heritage conflicts have been one of the main war reasons for the last two world wars, which we europeans so "kindly" started. I see the conflict potential, once different asian people discover their need for cultural identity, i simply hope it will not result in such big conflict potential as the european need for cultural identity brought.
peace
@@samlee-lo1qx I give a damn, and I escaped from the mainland during the revolution in '49. Having a tribal/clan identity is what makes all of us humans what we are...part of a family, a clan, an ethnic group. An Apache is a member of the North American indigenous peoples but I believe that he is very proud of his Apache status, so it is with a German or an Ashanti or a Bantu, every one is or should be proud of who they are.
Lee Huey Min. Actually I call myself 唐人.
I like that you said "Your head will be removed." That's hilarious.
There's a lot of effort put into this video... This is one if not the best video you have so far.. Keep on getting better* :-)
I like the increase in production value. I quite like how you change location frequently in this video, and how everything seems to be researched into redundancy. Great job on this one, keep it up.
I'm deeply impressed by Meta's ability to speak so many languages, including Mandarin.
My effin Metatron, you're a knowledgeable man! In particular your Mandarin is impressive.
It would essentially be a Cold War, whomever attacked first would lose the war, in order for such an event to occur, Parthia would have to been subdued by either one of these factions. The huge issue of this occurance would be the fact that one side would half to go through all of the Middle East. If you think about the battle of the heavenly horses, China suffered significant losses even trying to get to the Greco-Bactrians which wouldn’t even be half of the journey. I doubt either faction would be able to attack the other due to both being able to defend their territories. This would undoubtedly end in either a truce or a Cold War of sorts. Both would be too strong to wipe out the other. Even if one faction did in fact defeat the other, they would not be able to hold those claims just due to distance, if the Mongols couldn’t hold their empire together for a long period of time while being in the 1500s. I doubt either faction could.
Or they could have preemtively gone all Molotov-(Poland)-Ribbentrop on the Persians...
Well the Romans couldn't even defeat the parthians in outright war. Of give China the edge due to sheer numbers.
@@julesbrags1661 I can agree they lost numbers traveling through the desert territory. But you don't think they would have found other routes or created a supply depot system that would allow that type of travel. The Han did not properly plan for the war of the heavenly horses and that is what lead to its defeat in my opinion.
@@julesbrags1661 I agree with your assessment of Han logistics and overall attitude about expansion. Yet ill have to say the Romans did have limits to expansion. They were continuously bogged down on places like Germany fighting a bunch of small scale wars that drained it's ambitions for conquest for the rest of northern and eastern Europe. The Persians also used home terrain and hit and run tactics that denied Romans set piece battles.
BalkF and?
When the dark souls music kicked in i got goosebumps
This is some top tier educational content
Absolutely fantastic. I liked that you involved discussion of culture and logistics which too many "what if" thinkers ignore.
There's two things I wish you touched upon though:
1) Era Division : while it's very reasonable to use the Han dynasty as the frame of comparison, it's important to note that the Han was an administrative state rather than militarist/expansive state, with exception of during Emperor Wu's reign. Despite better technology, the Han military actually compare poorly against its predecessor, the Qin kingdom/dynasty. The reason was because the Qin state was organized for warfare, with an absolute meritocracy that promoted battlefield valor as the primary means of social mobility (similar to the importance of battlefield glory as the shortest path to political office in Republican Rome). Being of semi-nomadic descent yet renowned for the battlefield discipline of their heavy infantry and the massive barrages of their missile troops, the Qin literally had no weakness when it came to their armies.
In this context, it would have been nice to compare the Qin vs Republican/early Imperial Rome, and Han dynasty vs late Imperial Rome/Eastern Roman Empire (which were more focused on ruling rather than expanding).
2) Doctrine : China prioritized the use of strategic and operational warfare over the Roman's use of tactical warfare. Due to China's large population and early use of general mobilization/total war, armies often swelled to astronomical sizes, and it was far more efficient to break the enemy's morale/logistics rather than engage in head-on clashes. Thus Chinese doctrine emphasized the use of maneuver to cut enemy communications/supplies and surround/flank on a strategic level rather than on tactical dimensions, and to use asymmetric warfare wherever possible (ambushes, camp raids, fire/water attacks, etc.). Everyone knows about the Battle of Cannae where Hannibal double-enveloped 80,000 Romans which was considered a brilliance of maneuver. Few people know about the Battle of Changping where Qin General Bai Qi enveloped 400,000 Zhao troops, an army so large he had to surround an entire river valley and lay siege to the surrounded enemies for 46 days.
China didn't have that many people in ancient times, Rome had hundreds of millions of people, China only has 10 million
@@xukuncai4516 lolwut? the Han dynasty had 60 million population at 0AD. The Roman Empire wouldn't reach that until 160 years later.
This is a long shot seeing how old your post is, but I’ll ask anyway. How did the Chinese supply, recruit and train such large numbers? Were they able to recruit from tributary states and provinces and still expect complete loyalty?
@@Hawko1313 That is a really interesting question to which I don't read enough Chinese history to answer.
The closest answers I can come up with are:
(1) The Chinese institutionalized war earlier than any other country. They basically invented conscription and mass mobilization, and established the concept of a "strong state" for the purpose of waging war better.
(2) Chinese infrastructure has a scale on its own. Sure, the Romans were famous for their roadbuilding. But the center of their empire was the Mediterreanean, which was prone to storms. The Chinese centered their infrastructure on the massive river networks of East Asia and connected them with canals. Boats will always carry more than carts.
A question regarding hereditary titles in Rome: isn't it also true that the hereditary nature of these titles and positions wasn't necessarily tied to bloodlines?
A roman emperor could adopt junior members of nobility as sons, to which they didn't even have familial ties and these adopted sons did inherit the office rather than the emperors biological sons.
At least from what I've read.
Absolutely in fact.. that was the case for most succession. A notable example of the son of the previous emperor being emperor however was Commudus.. it didn’t go well.
Today I learned a lot about history. Thank you so much.
Im a Malaysian chinese, when you spoke mandarin i was super shocked and really impressed. You speak better mandarin than me, love your vids man
“Nihao, citizen!”
Nihao, civitas!
Hey dol, merry dol
Nihao. Quirites.
"Nihowdy, citizen." - Sino-Roman settler in 'merica.
slashbuzz hhhhh什么东西😂
Finally I have time to watch your videos in piece! Coffee is ready and so am i! Missed your videos so much...
Seems to me that if these two empires had clashed, the winner would be the one that adapted best. Rome started to use mounted archers after being defeated by the Parthians. After Hannibal's, and later Pyrrus's, Elephants had been used to rout Roman legions, the Romans started to use anti-elephant tactics (spikes, fire, javelins). And I'm sure the Chinese adopted their enemies' tactics and weapons too.
So if the Han Chinese inflicted heavy damage against the legions using crossbows, for example, you can bet there would soon be crossbow units in the legions.
Han defeated Xiong Nu, Xiong Nu defeated Huns, Huns defeated Germans, and Germans Defeated Rome. Then at Poitier the western allies defeated Attilla. That's the fact of 200 years.
@@arthurbanksforbeijingopera3091 and then the brits defeated the ming empire.
@@aurelian2668 brits and Qing? That's not Rome and Han.
Why empire? There was no such a noun at all. Just Han, great Ming, great Qing, etc.
@@arthurbanksforbeijingopera3091 Rome defeated the Huns even when they were on the verge of collapsing in the 5th century, not a very good comparison
So you're telling me the Merchants had an equivalent to a Get Out of Jail card? Lmao.
Brilliant. Thank you very much for such a great documentary video.
By the gods he finally did it, noble ones! Metatron has finally tackled the Roman Empire versus the Chinese Han Empire, although the latter encompasses much of the Roman republican period as well (with the ending of the Second Punic War). The Chinese Three Kingdoms period mirrored the Crisis of the Third Century in Rome, while the unified Jin Dynasty and disastrous Sixteen Kingdoms period in China coincided with unified rule of Constantine I and splitting of Rome into the Western Roman Empire and Eastern Roman Empire.
最喜欢Metatron博士！
One of the greatest videos ever made in the history of TH-cam
For one, the Han armies also had artisans to build stuff. The Chinese emperors' power grew over the years and the concentration of power was the greatest from Song dynasty and onwards. Before that, their powers were often checked by the powerful bureaucrats. If I am not mistaken, the Roman emperor's power concentration also grew over the years. Perhaps, at the time of Western Han dynasty, the Roman rulers would have less power than the Chinese emperors.
By the time of Emperor Wu of Western Han dynasty, steel equipment was more common than bronze equipment already. When Segmentata was introduced, the Eastern Han dynasty's equipment was also different from the Western Han dynasty equipment. Eastern Han dynasty armors and weapons, according to the archaeological evidence, were more like the picture you showed on 18:25. When people compare the two empires' war equipment, they are always comparing Rome in the AD 1st-3rd century and China in the warring states period 5th century B.C. to the Han dynasty of 2nd century B.C. For shields, the Chinese did have shields in the similar size and shape to the Roman Scutum during the warring states period or possibly even the Spring and Autumn period.
Just search up "warring states shield". During the Western Han dynasty the Chinese had a smaller shield but longer swords than the Romans, and starting from the Eastern Han dynasty the Chinese shields became larger. Also, it is not like the two empires would continue their ways and stay the same over time if they see a problem. And I don't think the Romans would finish conquering China in one campaign. It would be a war more like Parthia and Rome which spanned for years. The Osprey illustrations also did a poor job illustrating the Chinese armors and weaponry. In addition, the pictures shown in this video covered several dynasties, not just the Han dynasty.
The "king of weapons" had several versions. According to the records, the most historically accurate "king" was probably bows and crossbows.
And for all honesty, I think before we go too far, we should take a look at the geographical barrier first. From that, we can already deduce no war will ever start from these two empires. In addition, Chang'an, the capital of Western Han, was hidden in rings of mountain ranges. To go there, the Roman army would have to fight all the way to the Tong pass (潼关), which is situated at the east of Chang'an, before you can even enter the Guanzhong Plain. In my opinion, that is an impossible task unless the Romans were literally living in China. But if you live in China, all weaponry and military ways would be quite similar so that there won't be any comparison to make. And this is also true the other way around. Look at the difficulty level of attacking Europe from Asia. It would be extremely difficult to penetrate into the Italian peninsula from land, and to move large armies across the sea to Italy from China seemed even less probable.
Also, rice was not the main staple back in the Han dynasty.
Someone from Raytheon was showing me how the ancient Chinese used thick layering of silk to deflect arrows, under their laminar armors. Lost art that really worked in tests. Something to think about, I wondered how these kung fu mysteries would have worked against spears and sorts.
Appreciate your excellent content and the hard work you put into this gift that you give us!
Not gonna lie I also love when you call us your noble listeners!😍
Before the columbian exchange, italians didn’t have tomato sauce.
How did Romans cook back then? No Pizza, no Pasta, maybe they grilled their food? In China Wok frying only became common after the Han era, it's so unimaginable how they ate back then.
If you interested about it read "De Agricoltura" of Cato the censor. There is a cookbook. Mainly the romans cooked dough based on bread, olive oil, cheeses, aromatic herbs. They eat vegetables, actually some were considered panaceas such as cabbage and mostly seasoned breads were the ancestors of pizza, and laganae were ancestor of the lasagna. There were many vegetables (as I've mentioned), meats and sauces (the most famous was the garum).
Okay, I was already a fan of Metatron because of his amazing Latin (wanna learn Latin someday) but he also speaks Chinese? (HSK5 learner here). He's amazing!
Any tips for a beginner like me?
I'm gonna have my first Chinese exam in a few months, I still know less than 200 characters and I'm planning to reach 400+ before the exam.
What are some things you wish you knew sooner?
(Btw I have a European background, my native language is Italian)
Great job on the work you put into pronunciation, it makes it feel that much better to watch
A historical book of China once recorded that "there is a country called DaQin.The people there are tall and dignified, the country is rich and the life is harmonious."
What is certain is that this country called Daqin is the Roman Empire.
when you're sacking Rome and people start speaking Chinese *visible confusion*
I love this video (I've seen it three times xD). I'm really interested in Chinese and Roman history so I am really happy to find a video with so much content. Sadly there's no so much information about this topic in Spanish. :')
En España no hay mucho interes en historia por desgracia. Tardas menos en aprender ingles que en encontrar informacion historica fiable en español. :'(
8:46 blue color back then was very rare and only the rich Greeks from Persia (Seleucides) had the connections to obtain the stones from Asia.
na, Egypt and Mycenae had access to blue pigments from as early as the 3rd millennium BC. what was rare was tyrian purple, which was exclusively gotten from some sea shell thing (my memory fails me I'm afraid.) although it was still used.
Could you talk about the Byzantine Empire and it’s army too?
Very good. This was excellent. Thank you.
Hello Metatron. Thank you for the video, great job. Roman Empire(Principate) vs Han China is one of few civilizations that can be directly compared. However, you are, understandably, biased toward your ancestors.
How?
13:44
That move is illegal, man
First time I have watched ur videos.... congrats, you are doing a great job and serving an excellent purpose.
Your skill with speaking multiple 6languages is amazing!
Now you know the kind of hole you've dug yourself: You have to make a video on Chinese weapons!