Wow a video that isn’t another audiophile beating himself off over his own equipment or knowledge of technical data. This is a great introduction to help people look in the right direction! The turntable world needs people like you !
It's awesome to see that there still are people willing to spend their time teaching (for free) other people, tying to help them avoid the same mistakes... I am not a beginner regarding turntables but also not an expert and clicked on this video by pure curiosity... Awesome video man! 😊
Now let me just say this to anyone without being an audiophile..... Not everyone has 100 pounds or more to spare on a turntable or anything.... Don't let people make you feel guilty for buying a cheaper turntable... Because at the end of the day they don't own your choice you do. As a starting point a cheap option isn't shameful as we all start somewhere and don't always have the money.
I agree 100%. You should buy the best turntable you can afford. My first turntable was a hand-me-down Technics SL-BD260 which I have used regularly for the past 25 years. A couple of years ago, I upgraded to a uTurn Orbit and then later upgraded my cartridge to an Ortofon Blue. I’ve been happy with my decision.
It isn't shameful but it can be really frustrating. If one can only afford what he calls "toy" turntables, it would be better to NOT buy and, instead, save up for an "instrument." Listen to MP3 or FLAC files in the meantime. The thing about digital, is that it can sound pretty good on all kinds of unremarkable equipment. Clear, smooth, free of excess noise. With records that's not really the case. "Toy" equipment will almost certainly get in the way of the sound: platter and plinth will pick up resonances from your floor, or tabletop; you'll probably find songs sounding more distorted as you get closesr to the center of the record (this is from cartridges not being properly aligned or even adjustable in many cases); wow and flutter as he describes in the video; many suffer from ground loop hum; and on some cartridges and/or tonearms are made so cheaply they end up acting an antenna, picking up interference from television and garage door remotes, radio stations, etc. Good luck. I hope you have a good experience with whatever you find.
This is true. As soon as he showed the cartridge and said “don’t get a turntable with a cartridge that looks like this”, my immediate thought is “hey, is that mine?” I wanted to start listening to vinyl, but didn’t want to blow money on something bad. I wasn’t looking for something great, I was just looking for something that I could set up easily and quickly, plug-in and start playing records. That’s the mentality of a lot of vinyl newbies. Ended up buying the Victrola six in one. Listened to it for a few days, then wasn’t able to touch it for almost 3 months because it was something that ended up being packed away when I had to move out because of some Home renovations. Got back, started listening, noticed that the pitch was slightly too high due to a platter spinning a little more quickly than it should’ve been. Come to find out the warranty was only good for 90 days, and by the time I discovered the problem, 90 days since the time of purchase had already passed. It became annoying very fast, but is just something I’ve had to deal with. I’m quickly dissatisfied with the sound of the built-in speakers, i’m not an audiophile by any means but I think I am a little bit more picky about sound quality than the average person so I upgrade to a set of good budget bookshelf speakers that I love. I’ve had the turntable for only a little more than six months, used it for maybe half that time, and I already want to upgrade. It works, it doesn’t do a terrible job of what it was designed to do, but right out the gate I probably would’ve bought an Audio Technica that would’ve been a lot better for not much more. The turntable’s cartridge/internal preamp don’t sound great either. Through my speakers, they honestly sound fine as these speakers do a great job of making the sound seem good, clear and natural although I know it could be better, at least to my untrained nonaudiophile ears. But when I listen to music with headphones, the audio comes out slightly murky and a bit underpowered, lacks a lot of punch if you know what i mean, really doesn’t sound good at all. I don’t regret starting out with the Victrola, it was my gateway drug into this stuff, but if i had known what i had known now i woulda not spent 300 dollars, but i woulda got something better. I totally understand not always having the money to buy something outstanding, just maybe don’t buy something like i did lol. However, if you’re happy with it, pay no mind to those who look down their nose at you, enjoy it, have fun with it, but also pay attention to some polite good intended and thoughtful recommendations and toss around the possibility of upgrading if you are able and enjoy the world of vinyl enough to do so. Planning to upgrade to a Fluance Rt85 that i’ve done extensive research on, couple it with an ifi Zen preamp, and throw in a Dayton Sub1200 to round out the low end of my speakers. Can’t wait
No one makes you feel any certain way about anything, it is how you process things that makes you feel a certain way. Don't have the victim mentality about anything in life.
I find this to be a surprising statement. There are so many high-end decks from companies like Linn, Thorens, Sota, Denon, AR, etc, that are simple wooden rectangles.
There are so many high end brands now it’s getting crazy shopping for something in between audiophile and hobbyist level. So many options. Just make sure to get one you can swap cartridges on
I just started a heavy metal vinyl collection today (bought my first 5 literally a few hours ago), I don't have a turntable yet and I'm looking for one on Amazon, this was very very helpful as I have no clue what to buy!
I have literally never even heard of wow and flutter ever... also although my first turntable would definitely be considered a toy turntable I definitely don't regret ever having it. It got me into the hobby after all. I daresay I loved that cheap little thing
George Bedrin Wow and flutter come from tape decks. A properly built turntable shouldn't have any to speak of. All it takes is a heavy enough platter. A more interesting number is speed accuracy.
Why are you wearing your ignorance like a badge of honor? Maybe I should kill someone and say, "I have literally never heard of murder so everything is fine."
@@EJP286CRSKW Crosleys are prone to W&F due to light plastic platter and/or slipping belt, My Traveler has bad W&F when cold but disappears after 5 mins of warmup, It did the opposite with the worn belt W&F after some running time, I used a shellac 78 as a flywheel under the vinyl record to smooth it out, radiotvphononut & Shango are full on Crosley haters
But i agree with the used part. When you buy used, you get a nice list of what works well, what needs fixing or to be replaced, and possibly even thr opinions. That's honestly why i buy used cars, you can get so much info the manufacturer would hide behind its back
great starting point. No one should feel bad for going used or on the cheaper side. I started on an LP 60 because I wasn't sure if I'd stick with it or like it. Now I'm currently Using a Technics SL1200 G and couldn't be happier. Met a lot of cool people and learned a ton of cool stuff along the way.
Thanks Mate that was surprisingly useful. I started with a second hand table and the motor gave out so I bought a cool looking "toy" as a replacement. But now that I have the information I need, I can find a more seriously solution. Thank you
No mention of the ability to balance /counter balance the tone arm on a turntable? Probably the most important consideration. Many cheap turntables have no ability to balance the tone arm at all.
@@bobberry1463 OK Bob, at least "a MOST important consideration" although the intimate contact with precious vinyl is the stylus, and without a counter-balance facility you effectively could have a miniature 'lathe' cutting into the groove and doing irreparable damage - That for me is "THE most important consideration", but happy to hear of more important considerations??
@@robwheeler2445ok Rob, I'm not saying it's not important but majority of old records player didn't have a counter weight. Just buy whatever make u happy
bob berry The majority of old record players were crap, just like today, only far worse, because you had atrocities like the old Phillips dual-stylus rotating cartridges, on arms with compliances and tracking weights you could probably measure with a kitchen scale; and you also had the portables of the 1960s that paid no attention whatsoever to tracking force or correct geometry: but you cannot get a correct tracking force, especially if you change the cartridge, without an adjustable counterweight, and if you can't get a correct tracking force you are certainly going to wreck your records.
You are right the turntable is an instrument and as it gets more accurate and precise so the music becomes better resolved and more present and real when you play a record. It is hard to get perfect playback from vinyl unless your instrument is well built. The technical setting up makes all the difference and pays back beautifully.
A used Dual 505 is a true hifi turntable and very good value. I picked one up for £100 as a second turntable to play older second hand records and was able to audition it first. It is excellent. It has a quality arm and mine came with a goog Ortofon OM cartridge. Quality German construction.
A short, enlightening demonstration, and lecture that is quick, and to the point. You have done a wonderful service, and guided music listeners who need to be steered in the right direction; for example purchasing vintage hi fi audio equipment. What I did over two years ago was buy a used vintage turntable from ebay; Canadian version of web site. It's a Harman Kardon T25 turntable with AT70 MM cartridge that I correctly adjusted, and aligned; then I replaced it with a Denon DL-80A MC. I also bought a new phono preamplifier, and it plays back records very well, and sounds good.🔉🎵🎶
My first TT was an Audio Technica LP120 that I upgraded cartridge to an Ortofon Red. I then fell off the deep end and started buying vintage TT's. I have a Thorens TD160, Marantz Model 6300, Pioneer PL-560, and now eyeing either AR XA, or Denon DP-*. What I'm trying to say is...if you fall in love with vinyl you can really get into some expensive things lol. Go for it though....if you are a lover of music then you'll love vinyl. It's something you physically interact with which is what I enjoy the most. It's not hitting a play button on your iPhone. Plus with vinyl you'll discover songs you wouldn't have listened to other wise and the artistry that goes into creating an album. Because let's face it...who's getting up to skip songs? Not me. Great video alot of this I learned the hard way.
The c-100 is only about $50 dollars more expensive than the lp60x and has a replaceable cartridge and head shell, anti-skate adjustment, adjustable counterweight and more accurate speed than the lp60x so personally I’d rather spend the extra 50 dollars on that and have all that upgrade ability
drivingplatypus From my experience, I would classify the 120 as a mid range table. Yes, beginners can get this TT; but most beginners just starting the vinyl hobby probably don’t want to have to deal with everything that you need to do to set it up (tracking force, anti skate, using a protractor to adjust the cartridge, etc). In fact, some might feel a bit overwhelmed by it all on the 120. And that’s why TTs like the AT LP 60x and the Crosley C-100 are perfect starter tables. They don’t require a lot to set up, and people can start listening right away. And they won’t break the bank, either.
Ok, lets start at the beginning, of the three components making up a turntable, first is the turntable. Its job is to accurately spin , rotate the record on it. Think of it like a sportscars chassis. If the chassis isn't stiff, then the suspension, power from the engine getting to the wheels, and braking are all compromised. The table is key. Second, the tonearm. Its job is to make sure the cartridge tracks accurately in the record grooves and it can't do that without the turntable spinning accurately. And third, finally the the cartridge and also the phono preamp needs to be addressed here. You can't install some very good cartridge on some mediocre turntable/arm combination and expect it to perform to its fullest. Also most really cheap electronics that have a phono preamp might have something that was installed more as an after thought. So the cartridge should be considered along with a quality phono preamplifier. And it doesn't need to expensive; sub $100.00 models can work fine. One for model going $120.00 is quite impressive. Dealers once (and some still do), demonstrated turntables with the same arm and cartridge combinations to make a point how just different a table can sound. When I worked for a specialty audio shop, our best turntable arm combination which cost thousands of dollars with a $50.00 cartridge on it outperformed the next best table with $1000.00 plus cartridges. Plus be very careful purchasing used. The tables bearings , motor bearings and the arm could be even slightly damaged and you won't notice it until you listen to it. I hope I cleared that up. Also don't spend a lot on a cartridge. Cartridges over $100.00 on used tables like the pioneer direct drive you showed, I think the PL-518( not a very good table. PL-512 &514 much better in that series, strong dependable AC motors) wont benefit playing on these rigs.
I happen to like my T400 thank you very much. And while it was set to play slightly too fast speed adjustment is on the bottom and it plays perfect. The only thing that's going to make a noticeable difference in sound quality is a ceramic vs. Magnetic cartridge
Also none of these newer players track heavy enough to damage your records so what a counterweight weight is not absolutely necessary and neither is anti skate
If you want a perfect sound buy CDs. They will give you the best sound quality that's actually Audible. Don't spend hundreds of dollars on a turntable that you can only listen to at home
All good points and I largely agree. I also agree on buying used because the sad truth is, many cheap/budget decks of the 1980's tend to be much better built than some of the ones you can get today. No, I'm not talking about the cheap plastic record players that came attached to cheap all in ones of the 80's and early 90's, like from Yorx for example, but halfway decent but budget components from Kenwood and others of that ilk often can be quite decent performers and with a decent to good cart in the 90 dollar or so range, can sound quite good (with a good phono stage that can be had on a budget, like from Schitt) or a decent vintage receiver with a phono stage (1980's, early 90's) built in. I have a mid 80's budget Kenwood that is fitted with the Grado Prestige Green 1 and it is pipped into a Muffsy PP4 phono stage and into a NAD receiver and yet it sounds fantastic for what it is, but I know I can do better, and will upgrade when I can.
I found a 1970s Panasonic table that has a nice sound to it. I also have a mid century Zenith wood console with vinyl player that has a nice crisp sound to it. Not everything old is bad!
I own a Technics SL1200MK2 direct drive Turntable since 2000 and it was a used one as a friend of mine wanted to sell it (he regreted it later) I checked the wow and it is at .004%. I put an Ortofon 2M Black cardridge and stylus and I won't replace it .
This video is music to my ears! The point about the cartridge is definitely a huge thing to be aware of, it's certainly a question I had. But up until now no one has addressed it like you have by describing how it physically looks and the significance of this. I'm sure it's a question on the minds of EVERY beginner looking to take this hobby to the next level. It's confusing because as you said, the toys are trying to be passed off as professional units. Most consumer stores don't stock good rigs. This video is the best place to start, keeps things simple but provides enough context to go forward with.
Good points! When I got back into vinyl about 10 years ago or so I had an old Techincs linear tracking TT that pretty much died. So I did some shopping, instead of seriously researching, and bought a Audio-Technica AT-Lp120. Man what a big mistake that was! I have several videos showing mods and tweaks I've done to try and make it a good TT. Dec of 2017 I broke down and bought a Rega Planar 2 and life is much better. I have bought a few used TTs that I have refurbished that have turned out pretty good. My latest used TT is a Technics SL-Q2 that I got from Goodwill that I mainly use for listening and my Rega for digitizing my vinyl collection. I also have a Pioneer PL-7 that I listen to in my living room that I also got from Goodwill. If you're gonna buy new then buy something worth bragging about that will make your vinyl sound great. And buying used vintage TTs are a fun way to bring something old back to life. Oh, my AT-LP120, since it developed a motor pulsation noise even with a new motor, I use it only to spin albums for wet cleaning since that's all it's good for!
I appreciate your effort putting this video together. Great advice and info, as I am looking to upgrade my AT-LP60, which to me has been a really great entry level TT. Thanks again!
BE CAREFUL. You could end up spending a lot more money with very little improvement in sound quality. If you have already bought a new one, if you don't mind, please tell us what you got, what you paid for it and if you feel the extra cost translated in appreciably better sound - not just looks.)
I upgraded everything I could on the LP-60. Eliptical stylus and belt combo from LP Gear and an acrylic platter from Hudson Hifi. When I upgrade my heart is completely set on the Fluance RT85.
I always always always wanted a technics table. When i finally got back into records and really getting into it. I settled for a audiotechnica lp-120. I have an ortofon red cart. I simply went for the lp-120 almost right away without looking at others. And I’m a little bummed out by that. I like a few denon tables and this one particular older sansui table. I generally like direct drive. Just something about it. Oh well..
true bad, very sad - manufacturers taking advantage of folks.... like ' beginner' telescope kits for less than $300. - horrid marketing. those cheap tripods with 10 cent gears are simply horrid. makes it unusable for beginners even IF the tube and eyepiece is decent.
U-Turn basic turntable. $179.00 made in the USA. Sounds great and is backed by an excellent warranty and is no frills. Fully manual but simple. No China crap.
U-Turn Custom turntable with acrylic platter, cue and premium cartridge $360.00. Good mid-range place to start. You customize all options on the website, easily comparing prices and specs as you design it for what you need.
Turntables actually affect the audio quality every bit as much as the phono cartridge. It was Linn products of Scotland that demonstrated this back in the 70s when their Linn Sondek LP12 was consistently blowing away hordes of Japaneses direct drives at audio trade shows. It became apparent to anyone with who bothered to compare that turntables don't simply rotate the record but contribute the the system's sound quality as much as other components ion the chain including loudspeakers.
Tuning up a Crosley with a high-end cartridge might be somehow "pointless" but might show off very good that the cartridge is the major point on a turngtable + a/b sound comparison.
One thing that most novices do not realize is that the junk being sold today may not carry the Crosley name badge but you can just about bet almost ANY new toy is a Crosley with a different name. Today's Fisher, Sansui, Pioneer and many others are just in name only. If it says "Made in China" ANYWHERE on it, run, do not walk, to get away from it. Short, straight tone arms with fixed cartridges are a dead giveaway. Plus most of them have cheap plastic platters and not metal ones. I have a Pioneer PL-112D that I have been using for several years and it is perfect for what I use it for. I have a small collection of head shells with different brands of cartridges mounted in them for playing different grades of records. While many would look at my turntable and turn their nose up at it because it didn't cost several thousand dollars, it is quiet, steady and performs flawlessly. Here also is where the counterweight issue comes in. The toy "turntables" have no way of compensating for different cartridge weights and their individual tracking force requirements. Nobody with any sense would install (if they even could) an Ortofon cartridge in a toy that tracks like a dump truck!
A few points: S-shaped tonearms are purely a marketing scheme. They add mass and do not improve tonearm geometry. Anti-skating and counterbalance adjustment are a must. With less expensive turntables, belt drive is quite often quieter than direct drive. Plan on paying $100 minimum for a decent cartridge. A cheapo cartridge can actually damage your records and will probably sound un-natural. Be sure to use a dust cover. Dust is the enemy. Clean your records before each play.
I liked your video overall, but not the push to buy an expensive TT. Having said that, your suggestion of buying used to begin with is definitely a good one.
Its not necessarily a push to pay more as it is a push to know what standards to use. Buying vintage was an option and that can be cheaper than the Crosleys. But if you want new, then you will have to spend a certain amount to get quality.
After this video i was about to go look for a used turntable but i remembered that i have an old furniture right next to me that has a turntable in it XD it was my grand father's and my brother wanted to work on it to make it look good but it's been sitting in my office for like 2 years. I might keep it if it's good then!
Interesting. I just came from a Steve Guttenberg video where he said that "whatever you do, NEVER buy a used turntable." He said they're too delicate. You can buy other components used but never a turntable.
Look out for a turntable in second hand / thrift stores. Very often, you can get mid to even high-grade turntables for dirt cheap. They will need some basic work usually (changing belts and such) but you can be very lucky. I got a high quality Dual CS-750 from the esrly 90s for 30! bucks. Simply because the store had just received it, didn't price it yet and the guy in charge of the store that day had no idea of its quality and asked-online price (second hand around 300)
This! A thousand times this!! Best way to get a turntable. My best score ever was a Dual CS-5000 with a Ortofon MC-200 moving coil cartridge for ... $10!
You guys must live in a big city maybe? I live in a small town & have never found any high end turntable.. Might go check before buying anything online though ya never know.
I need all of your opinions if my turntable is any good. I have yet to use it as a new belt is on its way from across the world. I was on a pretty small budget for one as I’m in college and have no money. At a pawn shop I found a Philips 437 Syncro Belt Drive table for only $15 and was in need of some major repair. I was just wondering if this is a “toy turntable” or if maybe I found a real winner. Once I have the belt, it should work perfectly
What a great find! Those come up on the Bay of E every once in a while for $100-$200 depending on condition. Philips made really good quality stuff back in the day, before they licensed their name away on crappy earbuds and bluetooth speakers. That table has a decent suspension system (the platter and arm are on a subchassis that hangs on springs to isolate it from noise), and the motor is pretty quiet. Put a good cartridge on it if it doesn't have one already and you've got a turntable that could last another 40 years.
AnalogKids oh sweet, yeah I have got a cartridge for it, haven’t put it on yet, then I also need a new belt. The idiot before that owned it duct taped it shut and put it in a closet for 20 years, so it had impossible residue to get off without creating scratches. I did a pretty well job of hiding the scratched though with some polish. But other than that it looks sweet
Thank you for passing on your knowledge. I’m after a budget system as I don’t have a lot of $$. I just want to play my parents old vinyl records from time to time and I was hoping to pair it to a Bluetooth speaker, headphones or sound bar as I no longer have an amp & bookshelf speakers. What’s your thoughts on the AT-LP60XBT and the Sony PSLX310BT? Id really appreciated your feedback.
If I didn't have a 40+ year old Thornes 125-MKII with an SME Tonearm that I personally re-built...I'd buy a Fluance RT85. Warning: If you DO buy a pre-owned turntable/tonearm you will undoubtedly have to upgrade the following: 1) cartridge&stylus, 2) mat 3) alignment settings, 4) lubrication, speed-controller parts (electronics) and possibly the motor. You may also need have the tonearm itself removed, inspected and re-wired by an outside professional. After you factor in those maintenance/upgrade costs, you may want to think twice about purchasing a used one. If you do purchase a used one, find an online shop that specializes in re-furb/upgrading that brand.
The image gama range of frequency of the transductor cartrige is not so wide then other sound system like radio and cassette even if it has an expensive preamp phono or cartrige ,stylus needle The maximum transduction cartrige gamma of frequency range sets between 550hz an 15000hz sound image The sound image range frequency of a digital signal sets between 25hz to 25khz
My first turntable was a nightmare. It was belt driven with a synchronous motor driven from a circuit board that generated a/c. This was placed right under the pickup so even moving magnet cartridges buzzed like a wasp in a paper bag. It overheated as did its replacement so I bought a second hand 230/110 transformer placed well away from the deck and it sounded far better relying on the main a/c supply. The deck wasn’t cheap either - over $1000 in today’s money. I replaced it with a Linn LP 12. I don’t think the original manufacturer lasted much longer than my turntable.
I realise I'm late to the table here, no pun intended, as this video is 2 years old but I thought I'd comment on something that has truely shocked me , I'm no audiophile but I own a technics sl1200 G and run nagaoka mp200 and ortofon 2m bronze, both carts sound very good, but I'd seen reviews on the Audio technica 3600L so I purchased one it took about a week to bed in and was completely blown away it sound phenomenal, it does however tend to loose a tad of detail at very high volume, but I'm not cranked up to 11 on the amp very often. It was a real eye opener as to just how good this £15.99 cart is and in all honesty I'll probably not buy an expensive cart again, has anyone else had this experience.
Also unlike most components quality turntables hold their value well. My 10 year old Basis table and Graham arm sold used for about what I paid for them new. Granted they are $2500 each but come on that was 10 years! Nothing else ever does that!
@Zhiyuan Shen It is about separates and tweaking. Of course you can play around with TT and records on a low budget. But it is about buying stuffs and know how to kick the tires. For instance, my main turntable (46 lbs/21 Kg) has an outboard (12 lbs. shoebox size) power supply, a vacuum unit, separate tonearm & headshell and a MC cartridge. So, one can start with the base unit (TT & PSU) + starter tonearm + MM cartridge. Later on, one can try out different headshells, cartridges and tonearms. The vacuum unit can be added last. For the next upgrade, one can buy a new turntable and use the same tonearm + (headshell) + cartridge.
I've had a built in turntable with that red ceramic cartridge, it wasn't exactly terrible (But there are some). I did upgrade in Feburary of this year to a much better one with a magnetic cartridge, built in preamp and external powered speakers on ebay. I can say it's night and day and 50x better compared to the portable/suitcase style/built in record players.
@@emmett6268 EDIT: Of course! I got both at a Ebay discount the Ion TTUSB turntable and replaced the cartridge with a at3600l (which you cannot do with a red portable turntable cartridge) and Sterling MX3 powered speakers.
@@emmett6268EDIT: 2nd comment I'd rather get an Audio Technica LP60 and the Edifier R980T powered speakers for a beginner record player setupat cheapest and great quality.
I laughed when a customer at work told me about how they purchased an “expensive” turntable for $100.00, and that it was an all in one turntable with a built in CD player, AM/FM radio and USB plus built in speakers. I wish I did more research on my first turntable. Mine is a Cord DJ U Pro, the RRP is $350.00 and it’s far from what I’d say decent. Wish I had gone with a Pro-ject Debut Carbon and just spent the extra money on a seperate preamp.
P-mounts are fine if you want a basic turntable without the hassle of adjustments.. The tracking force and anti-skate is factory set at 1.25 grams but the higher end p-mounts will allow you to adjust from 1-1.5 grams. Keep in mind that you are limited in the cartridge choices if you go that route.
Boy! I am glad I was born in 1962 and grew up knowing about the best stuff available throughout the decades. I personally have a Direct Drive Realistic LAB-430 that I bought back in 1985 for $130 ($310 in today's money) and works great. It uses a Shure R5X elliptical Diamond needle on an RX47T magnetic cartridge that has W&F of 0.05% and for back-up, I have a Shure RXT5 that uses an R15X stylus. Of course, clean your records thoroughly before playing.
Few months ago i bought Marantz TT5005 and it comes with a fixed cartridge but the stylus can be changed and it has a built in preamp as well. I want you to have a look on it and give your opinion. Thanks
@Mike Adams There is a switch under the platter to switch of the built in preamp. Its a facility to connect with a new amplifier which doesn't have Phono input, i bought it for my old Pioneer 518k amplifier which doesn't have the Phono input but now i connected it with new Yamaha RN 602 amplifier and it sounds fantastic.
@Mike Adams I don't fully consider the 120 as junk although not perfect, it has features not found on 1200s like 78 and rev play, I now have a Mk4 1200 when I was really annoyed with the poor AS, just after getting the MK4 I found out on VWestlife 3600 vs Rega Carbon vid he mentions the new spring to fix the AS
very very solid. for someone interested in LP's - simple economics. if $$ is an issue - CD's last a lot longer than LP's, far less fragile. an inexpensive 'table / cartridge bouncing around the soft vinyl grooves at twice or more the weight of a quality design is baaad.
PS , meant to add - Ya can buy a decent DVD /CD player for less than $50. at any 'big box' store. that will allow building up a good collection of CD's. again, WHY are " you" the subject of this really, thinking of starting on LP's ?
I brought my first turntable & only turntable, when I was about 18yo, I am 62 today, a systemdek IIX, with a audio technica AT125 LC cartridge, it is still in immaculate condition, will leave it to my kids when I leave this earth…
I have a mid-range Marantz TT from the mid 80's. I wish I could afford a TT that is high-end, but I am a poor bloke. Aside from new styli and new drive belts, it's done me well. The good old girl is going to be going strong when I am in my grave!
I have a 30Year old Kennwood KD-77F turntable wich has a cartridge which has no screws and I dont think that my turntable is a Toy Turntable. Sure it is no audiophile type of turn table, but i dont think that it sucks. And as long it works I will not buy another one.
Turntables are not digital, purely electronic things, they are mechanical things. They have to be made to exacting physical tolerances. Just look at one first. Does it look "plasticky", lightweight, easily mass-produced; or does it look "metally", heavy, and harder to make? This a question naive buyers should first ask themselves.
Informative! As a side note, if the content is good, creators don't have to beg for likes and subs. Your content was valuable and well presented and you didn't beg. Added my sub and like!
I've had two Sherwood turntables that look just like the Crosley and they always ended up having problems. 1: The first one eventually stopped playing through one speaker and 2: The second one started vibrating and wouldn't stop no matter how many times I adjusted the arm.
Your TT has a W&F of 0.025%? A weighted or W.R.M.S.? Some turntables spec their W&F by measuring the output of the motor controller instead of measuring the rotation of the platter.
Have desire to dive back in.. Resetup my system.. Dumped my Rega and vinyl 12 years ago.. Remorse at times.. Have 30 albums and a AT LP60 ... Should i set it up? Or say F# it.
The first and very important step is to find a good dealer that will let you LISTEN to the product in a suitable ENVIRONMENT. Not in a show room with lots of customers milling about also trying to listen. If you are actually looking at wow and flutter or other numbers claimed by the manufacturer, you are heading the wrong way. You can't HEAR these numbers. Just LISTEN to the music. Unless of course tech specs, strobe lights, pitch adjusts are things that turn you on, or you fancy yourself a DJ. In which case buy a Technics like every other sheep.
Shipping a used turntable is a disaster in the making. Save up and buy a good NEW first turntable that you will keep for your entire life. You will like it more and you will save money. I like Technics turntables for their build quality and versatility. Buying USED might be okay if you buy the turntable from someone you know and can transport it home safely yourself. Thank you for posting this.
Would you recommend the Fluance RT85? I have also looked into the Rega Planar 2 but I am disappointed with the cartridge that comes with is compared to the Ortophone 2M blue
I'd recommend the 85 over the Planar 2 easily. You will have more flexibility with upgrading carts while the Planar 2 will fight you tooth and nail if you want to deviate from the Rega cart.
I think this was a good video, but I wish you would have also touched on phono pre amp / phono stage. It's a very in depth and touchy subject, but depending on what someone has or wants to use for gear, it will matter. I'm at the point in my journey that I heavily prefer a deck that does not contain a pre amp. I also prefer my receiver to not have one either, though I find now that some of the more high end receivers these days do put them in. I just like the ability to select my own.
Yeah... I had 3 more points. But realized that most of them were only about turntables so made it all one video. My other points were phono preamps, getting rid of inner groove distortion, and necessary vs unnecessary accessories
@Beitie Beitie Very interesting POV. Think separates and ‘tweakability’. One often saw a high end audio system consisted of a separate pre-pre-amp for MC, pre-amp, amp and speakers. Why? It was because one could swap an individual component. If one's integrated amp or receiver had a pre-out, then it could be used it as a pre-amp to a separate amp. With separate amp, one could play around with bi-amp, mono blocks, etc. beside upgrading. The turntable should allow tweaking as well. But there were minus sides of separates. The total cost of all the individual components usually was higher than a single piece. Matching up components was another. Then, the snake oil, the interconnects and power cords. Turntable base & motor + (outboard) power supply + tonearm + headshell + cartridge + (interconnect & power cord). CD player or CD transport + digital cable + DA + interconnect & power cords. MM cartridge or (MC cartridge + Pre-preamp) + Phono preamp/stage + preamp + (crossover) + amp(s) + (tubes) + Interconnects & power cords + speaker cables + speakers. What is so in depth or touchy subject about Phono preamp/stage? Remember separates and ‘tweakability’. Do you mean those TT with a Phono preamp? Nothing comes free and it is all about the desire for plug & play. Pre-preamp/Headamp or MC transformer: to boost low output MC signal to ~MM Phono preamp/stage: apply the RIAA equalization and boost signal I seriously doubt a lot of people would go out to buy all of the above with a single purchase. But instead, building the system through years if not decades before ending up with the current one. Think of it as a much longer journey from using a tablet to build a gamer PC. BTW, there is no need to upgrade any component yet until you are able to hear the difference. For instance, improves transient response from a MC cartridge? Sometime, one's system isn't revealing enough to hear the difference and always use your favorite LP or CD as a reference. Happy journey, even it is a rabbit hole. :)
Nothing wrong with buying a cheap turntable. Most of them are fairly decently built and most of them sound decent enough. The fact is most people won't even notice a difference between .20 and .25 flutter and the difference is honestly not big enough to warrant spending hundreds of extra dollars especially not if you are a casual listener and collector.
They will definitely hear the difference btween .20 and .020 wow and flutter though, and how many "casual" collectors do you know? If you want to do the music justice, then a good quality turntable with a good quality cartridge and elliptical stylus will at least give you a taste of what vinyl records can do and not damage them in the process. The important thing to remember is to listen to the turntable in your system and then decide if it's worth the "hundreds of dollars extra".
@@chrisantoniou4366 maybe I misread but it wasn't .20 vs .020. What i saw was .20 vs .25 which modt people won't even notice .05 of a difference. It works fine for me when ripping samples having a cheap turntable. No issues.
@@xDTHx True there's not much difference between .20% and .25% but the subtitle said .025% - so a bit of a misread. The other thing is that a turntable with poor wow and flutter will also give a poor bass response as the usually weaker motor struggles to supply enough power to the groove at those frequencies.
@@chrisantoniou4366 yeah, I don't really need strong low end when ripping samples, but i went back and read the subtitle and it said any number larger then .20 is unacceptable, but that his was .025 so my point still stands. Most cheap vinyl players have a wow and flutter of .25, where as a good chunk of high end machines have a wow and flutter of .20 the fact is modern turntables are all comparable with the only real major difference being build quality. Most cheap turn tables are entirely plastic where as a lot if higher end ones are metal and sometimes glass. When I say high end I mean like the 300 or so dollar range not the thousand dollar range. I mean I could be wrong, but according to every video I've seen this seems to be the case.
@@xDTHx Well, I guess it depends on what you call high end I suppose... I was talking about machines costing over $2000. As for not needing "strong low end when ripping samples" it depends on what you are using them for. I would still strongly suggest you listen to a variety of turntables with records you are familiar to hear the difference a good turntable or arm or cartridge or stylus or phono amp can make. Whether this represents good "value" or not depends on your personal preference and financial situation. I have been a Hi Fi enhusiast for over 35 years now and had been in the industry as well. I am happy to answer any questions you might have regarding turntables because it is not as simple as it might look on the surface and I would hate for anyone to damage their records with a cheap catrridge.
Ok you put both the weakerthans and the decline on your storefront that's serious good taste. The weakerthans vynil was one of my first back when i started ordering from indie labels still one of my favorite albums. My turntable is a technics clone i have had the same for 15 years. Cartridge recently updated to AT95.
Absolutely true. I did the same mistakes. I started with the AT LP120. I did a lot of mods and not happy with the sound. Even using the Ortofon M Red All was very frustating and I was very close to give up with the hobby. I decide give the last chance. I sold all and I bought a Rega P2. Great improvment I repleace the Rega Carbon for the AT95 Ex, good improvent there Now I did some mods (I add antiskating system to the tonearm (DIY) and I install the Nagaoka MP-110 Absolutely happy now. But was a long trip with a lot of frustrations that cost me many hundreds of dollars
From a DJ. You wanna know what I wish I knew before buying my two RP-7000s? That tonearm bearings can differ per deck and when not properly calibrated can resonate with the music on high output carts. Contrary to what some vinyl heads may believe, partially due to ignorance and partially due to old tricks DJs used to use before turntablist gear was the norm, I care about getting good sound. Resonances fucking suuuuuuck.
Wow a video that isn’t another audiophile beating himself off over his own equipment or knowledge of technical data. This is a great introduction to help people look in the right direction! The turntable world needs people like you !
Sounds to me like those videos make you feel insecure🤣🤣
@@bkkersey93 sounds to me like those videos are made by insecure people who need to flaunt material items to compensate for their small weiners
fuck technical data, its all personal.
this comment 100%
It's awesome to see that there still are people willing to spend their time teaching (for free) other people, tying to help them avoid the same mistakes...
I am not a beginner regarding turntables but also not an expert and clicked on this video by pure curiosity...
Awesome video man! 😊
Now let me just say this to anyone without being an audiophile..... Not everyone has 100 pounds or more to spare on a turntable or anything.... Don't let people make you feel guilty for buying a cheaper turntable... Because at the end of the day they don't own your choice you do. As a starting point a cheap option isn't shameful as we all start somewhere and don't always have the money.
I agree 100%. You should buy the best turntable you can afford. My first turntable was a hand-me-down Technics SL-BD260 which I have used regularly for the past 25 years. A couple of years ago, I upgraded to a uTurn Orbit and then later upgraded my cartridge to an Ortofon Blue. I’ve been happy with my decision.
It isn't shameful but it can be really frustrating. If one can only afford what he calls "toy" turntables, it would be better to NOT buy and, instead, save up for an "instrument." Listen to MP3 or FLAC files in the meantime. The thing about digital, is that it can sound pretty good on all kinds of unremarkable equipment. Clear, smooth, free of excess noise. With records that's not really the case. "Toy" equipment will almost certainly get in the way of the sound: platter and plinth will pick up resonances from your floor, or tabletop; you'll probably find songs sounding more distorted as you get closesr to the center of the record (this is from cartridges not being properly aligned or even adjustable in many cases); wow and flutter as he describes in the video; many suffer from ground loop hum; and on some cartridges and/or tonearms are made so cheaply they end up acting an antenna, picking up interference from television and garage door remotes, radio stations, etc. Good luck. I hope you have a good experience with whatever you find.
This is true. As soon as he showed the cartridge and said “don’t get a turntable with a cartridge that looks like this”, my immediate thought is “hey, is that mine?” I wanted to start listening to vinyl, but didn’t want to blow money on something bad. I wasn’t looking for something great, I was just looking for something that I could set up easily and quickly, plug-in and start playing records. That’s the mentality of a lot of vinyl newbies. Ended up buying the Victrola six in one. Listened to it for a few days, then wasn’t able to touch it for almost 3 months because it was something that ended up being packed away when I had to move out because of some Home renovations. Got back, started listening, noticed that the pitch was slightly too high due to a platter spinning a little more quickly than it should’ve been. Come to find out the warranty was only good for 90 days, and by the time I discovered the problem, 90 days since the time of purchase had already passed. It became annoying very fast, but is just something I’ve had to deal with. I’m quickly dissatisfied with the sound of the built-in speakers, i’m not an audiophile by any means but I think I am a little bit more picky about sound quality than the average person so I upgrade to a set of good budget bookshelf speakers that I love. I’ve had the turntable for only a little more than six months, used it for maybe half that time, and I already want to upgrade. It works, it doesn’t do a terrible job of what it was designed to do, but right out the gate I probably would’ve bought an Audio Technica that would’ve been a lot better for not much more. The turntable’s cartridge/internal preamp don’t sound great either. Through my speakers, they honestly sound fine as these speakers do a great job of making the sound seem good, clear and natural although I know it could be better, at least to my untrained nonaudiophile ears. But when I listen to music with headphones, the audio comes out slightly murky and a bit underpowered, lacks a lot of punch if you know what i mean, really doesn’t sound good at all. I don’t regret starting out with the Victrola, it was my gateway drug into this stuff, but if i had known what i had known now i woulda not spent 300 dollars, but i woulda got something better. I totally understand not always having the money to buy something outstanding, just maybe don’t buy something like i did lol. However, if you’re happy with it, pay no mind to those who look down their nose at you, enjoy it, have fun with it, but also pay attention to some polite good intended and thoughtful recommendations and toss around the possibility of upgrading if you are able and enjoy the world of vinyl enough to do so. Planning to upgrade to a Fluance Rt85 that i’ve done extensive research on, couple it with an ifi Zen preamp, and throw in a Dayton Sub1200 to round out the low end of my speakers. Can’t wait
The akai 206c is a decent starter turner. £100-£130 can pick one up for
No one makes you feel any certain way about anything, it is how you process things that makes you feel a certain way. Don't have the victim mentality about anything in life.
My only problem with the high-end, audiophile style turntables is that they all have that futuristic, space age look. I detest that look.
i was thinking the same thing
I find this to be a surprising statement. There are so many high-end decks from companies like Linn, Thorens, Sota, Denon, AR, etc, that are simple wooden rectangles.
@@thatguy6054 But maybe he is talking about current, and not vintage, tables.
@@bertroost1675, many of those wood finished decks are still sold today, as are a number of newer ones.
@@thatguy6054 Nice, that's good to know.
There are so many high end brands now it’s getting crazy shopping for something in between audiophile and hobbyist level. So many options. Just make sure to get one you can swap cartridges on
Not only cartridges but also be able swap tonearms.
I just started a heavy metal vinyl collection today (bought my first 5 literally a few hours ago), I don't have a turntable yet and I'm looking for one on Amazon, this was very very helpful as I have no clue what to buy!
I have literally never even heard of wow and flutter ever... also although my first turntable would definitely be considered a toy turntable I definitely don't regret ever having it. It got me into the hobby after all. I daresay I loved that cheap little thing
George Bedrin Wow and flutter come from tape decks. A properly built turntable shouldn't have any to speak of. All it takes is a heavy enough platter. A more interesting number is speed accuracy.
Why are you wearing your ignorance like a badge of honor? Maybe I should kill someone and say, "I have literally never heard of murder so everything is fine."
@@EJP286CRSKW Crosleys are prone to W&F due to light plastic platter and/or slipping belt, My Traveler has bad W&F when cold but disappears after 5 mins of warmup, It did the opposite with the worn belt W&F after some running time, I used a shellac 78 as a flywheel under the vinyl record to smooth it out, radiotvphononut & Shango are full on Crosley haters
@@JLeeeP Lighten up! At least the guy's not claiming to know everything about vinyl & hi - fi, like so many others on TH-cam.
@@JLeeeP you must really hate your life to be that upset about something someone never even said
Bought Pioneer PL518 back in 1978, used to listen to my dorm roommate Pioneer & liked it. It still works
But i agree with the used part. When you buy used, you get a nice list of what works well, what needs fixing or to be replaced, and possibly even thr opinions. That's honestly why i buy used cars, you can get so much info the manufacturer would hide behind its back
This is the best video regarding turntables on TH-cam.
great starting point. No one should feel bad for going used or on the cheaper side. I started on an LP 60 because I wasn't sure if I'd stick with it or like it. Now I'm currently Using a Technics SL1200 G and couldn't be happier. Met a lot of cool people and learned a ton of cool stuff along the way.
Thanks Mate that was surprisingly useful. I started with a second hand table and the motor gave out so I bought a cool looking "toy" as a replacement. But now that I have the information I need, I can find a more seriously solution. Thank you
First turntable purchase in over 30 years and got a Rega 6 with Ania Pro cartridge. Thank you.
1:11 bruh clean your record lmao
It looks like he was using a Crosley with a cheap stylus, so I doubt he cares about the record
0:39 bro I have this same keyboard. why you gotta call me out like that..
No mention of the ability to balance /counter balance the tone arm on a turntable?
Probably the most important consideration. Many cheap turntables have no ability to balance the tone arm at all.
Very true
I wouldn't say the most important
@@bobberry1463 OK Bob, at least "a MOST important consideration" although the intimate contact with precious vinyl is the stylus, and without a counter-balance facility you effectively could have a miniature 'lathe' cutting into the groove and doing irreparable damage - That for me is "THE most important consideration", but happy to hear of more important considerations??
@@robwheeler2445ok Rob, I'm not saying it's not important but majority of old records player didn't have a counter weight. Just buy whatever make u happy
bob berry The majority of old record players were crap, just like today, only far worse, because you had atrocities like the old Phillips dual-stylus rotating cartridges, on arms with compliances and tracking weights you could probably measure with a kitchen scale; and you also had the portables of the 1960s that paid no attention whatsoever to tracking force or correct geometry: but you cannot get a correct tracking force, especially if you change the cartridge, without an adjustable counterweight, and if you can't get a correct tracking force you are certainly going to wreck your records.
Absolutely true. My first Table was a plastic junker in 84. My second is a JVC QL y7 bought used in 86’ for 50 bucks, still have it today.
Lucker. Those are like 600 to 800 nowadays.
I seen a guy asking 1400 for a minty one on eBay. Don't think he got it
@@roofermarc1 1400? sick...
You are right the turntable is an instrument and as it gets more accurate and precise so the music becomes better resolved and more present and real when you play a record. It is hard to get perfect playback from vinyl unless your instrument is well built. The technical setting up makes all the difference and pays back beautifully.
A used Dual 505 is a true hifi turntable and very good value. I picked one up for £100 as a second turntable to play older second hand records and was able to audition it first. It is excellent. It has a quality arm and mine came with a goog Ortofon OM cartridge. Quality German construction.
A short, enlightening demonstration, and lecture that is quick, and to the point. You have done a wonderful service, and guided music listeners who need to be steered in the right direction; for example purchasing vintage hi fi audio equipment. What I did over two years ago was buy a used vintage turntable from ebay; Canadian version of web site. It's a Harman Kardon T25 turntable with AT70 MM cartridge that I correctly adjusted, and aligned; then I replaced it with a Denon DL-80A MC. I also bought a new phono preamplifier, and it plays back records very well, and sounds good.🔉🎵🎶
My first TT was an Audio Technica LP120 that I upgraded cartridge to an Ortofon Red. I then fell off the deep end and started buying vintage TT's. I have a Thorens TD160, Marantz Model 6300, Pioneer PL-560, and now eyeing either AR XA, or Denon DP-*. What I'm trying to say is...if you fall in love with vinyl you can really get into some expensive things lol. Go for it though....if you are a lover of music then you'll love vinyl. It's something you physically interact with which is what I enjoy the most. It's not hitting a play button on your iPhone. Plus with vinyl you'll discover songs you wouldn't have listened to other wise and the artistry that goes into creating an album. Because let's face it...who's getting up to skip songs? Not me. Great video alot of this I learned the hard way.
I got the audio Technica 140xp and upgraded the cartridge, sounds amazing and with a good pre amp
The best turntable to start with is a audio technica LP60x
Decent starter turntable although I think that the Crosley C-100 is better value for money
what about a audio technica lp120?
@@jaysvintagerecordsandphono6184 care to elaborate why?
The c-100 is only about $50 dollars more expensive than the lp60x and has a replaceable cartridge and head shell, anti-skate adjustment, adjustable counterweight and more accurate speed than the lp60x so personally I’d rather spend the extra 50 dollars on that and have all that upgrade ability
drivingplatypus From my experience, I would classify the 120 as a mid range table. Yes, beginners can get this TT; but most beginners just starting the vinyl hobby probably don’t want to have to deal with everything that you need to do to set it up (tracking force, anti skate, using a protractor to adjust the cartridge, etc). In fact, some might feel a bit overwhelmed by it all on the 120.
And that’s why TTs like the AT LP 60x and the Crosley C-100 are perfect starter tables. They don’t require a lot to set up, and people can start listening right away. And they won’t break the bank, either.
Thank you for “letting” me buy a record player
Ok, lets start at the beginning, of the three components making up a turntable, first is the turntable. Its job is to accurately spin , rotate the record on it. Think of it like a sportscars chassis. If the chassis isn't stiff, then the suspension, power from the engine getting to the wheels, and braking are all compromised. The table is key. Second, the tonearm. Its job is to make sure the cartridge tracks accurately in the record grooves and it can't do that without the turntable spinning accurately. And third, finally the the cartridge and also the phono preamp needs to be addressed here. You can't install some very good cartridge on some mediocre turntable/arm combination and expect it to perform to its fullest. Also most really cheap electronics that have a phono preamp might have something that was installed more as an after thought. So the cartridge should be considered along with a quality phono preamplifier. And it doesn't need to expensive; sub $100.00 models can work fine. One for model going $120.00 is quite impressive.
Dealers once (and some still do), demonstrated turntables with the same arm and cartridge combinations to make a point how just different a table can sound. When I worked for a specialty audio shop, our best turntable arm combination which cost thousands of dollars with a $50.00 cartridge on it outperformed the next best table with $1000.00 plus cartridges. Plus be very careful purchasing used. The tables bearings , motor bearings and the arm could be even slightly damaged and you won't notice it until you listen to it. I hope I cleared that up. Also don't spend a lot on a cartridge. Cartridges over $100.00 on used tables like the pioneer direct drive you showed, I think the PL-518( not a very good table. PL-512 &514 much better in that series, strong dependable AC motors) wont benefit playing on these rigs.
Dose a vintage 1973 JC penny turntable with radio and 8 track cassette player count as a “ toy turntable “ ?
I happen to like my T400 thank you very much. And while it was set to play slightly too fast speed adjustment is on the bottom and it plays perfect. The only thing that's going to make a noticeable difference in sound quality is a ceramic vs. Magnetic cartridge
Also none of these newer players track heavy enough to damage your records so what a counterweight weight is not absolutely necessary and neither is anti skate
And they're not toys if they actually play real records
If you want a perfect sound buy CDs. They will give you the best sound quality that's actually Audible. Don't spend hundreds of dollars on a turntable that you can only listen to at home
All good points and I largely agree. I also agree on buying used because the sad truth is, many cheap/budget decks of the 1980's tend to be much better built than some of the ones you can get today. No, I'm not talking about the cheap plastic record players that came attached to cheap all in ones of the 80's and early 90's, like from Yorx for example, but halfway decent but budget components from Kenwood and others of that ilk often can be quite decent performers and with a decent to good cart in the 90 dollar or so range, can sound quite good (with a good phono stage that can be had on a budget, like from Schitt) or a decent vintage receiver with a phono stage (1980's, early 90's) built in.
I have a mid 80's budget Kenwood that is fitted with the Grado Prestige Green 1 and it is pipped into a Muffsy PP4 phono stage and into a NAD receiver and yet it sounds fantastic for what it is, but I know I can do better, and will upgrade when I can.
Great video. I own 10 vintage turntables. All are the Dual turntables. My highest end is the Dual 1229. great tables
I found a 1970s Panasonic table that has a nice sound to it. I also have a mid century Zenith wood console with vinyl player that has a nice crisp sound to it. Not everything old is bad!
I own a Technics SL1200MK2 direct drive Turntable since 2000 and it was a used one as a friend of mine wanted to sell it (he regreted it later) I checked the wow and it is at .004%. I put an Ortofon 2M Black cardridge and stylus and I won't replace it .
This video is music to my ears! The point about the cartridge is definitely a huge thing to be aware of, it's certainly a question I had. But up until now no one has addressed it like you have by describing how it physically looks and the significance of this. I'm sure it's a question on the minds of EVERY beginner looking to take this hobby to the next level. It's confusing because as you said, the toys are trying to be passed off as professional units. Most consumer stores don't stock good rigs. This video is the best place to start, keeps things simple but provides enough context to go forward with.
Good points! When I got back into vinyl about 10 years ago or so I had an old Techincs linear tracking TT that pretty much died. So I did some shopping, instead of seriously researching, and bought a Audio-Technica AT-Lp120. Man what a big mistake that was! I have several videos showing mods and tweaks I've done to try and make it a good TT. Dec of 2017 I broke down and bought a Rega Planar 2 and life is much better. I have bought a few used TTs that I have refurbished that have turned out pretty good. My latest used TT is a Technics SL-Q2 that I got from Goodwill that I mainly use for listening and my Rega for digitizing my vinyl collection. I also have a Pioneer PL-7 that I listen to in my living room that I also got from Goodwill. If you're gonna buy new then buy something worth bragging about that will make your vinyl sound great. And buying used vintage TTs are a fun way to bring something old back to life. Oh, my AT-LP120, since it developed a motor pulsation noise even with a new motor, I use it only to spin albums for wet cleaning since that's all it's good for!
The Rega is highly recommended by HiViNyws
Do you have recommendations for an affordable wooden turntable with a dust cover? I've been searching and could use some ideas!
I appreciate your effort putting this video together. Great advice and info, as I am looking to upgrade my AT-LP60, which to me has been a really great entry level TT. Thanks again!
BE CAREFUL. You could end up spending a lot more money with very little improvement in sound quality. If you have already bought a new one, if you don't mind, please tell us what you got, what you paid for it and if you feel the extra cost translated in appreciably better sound - not just looks.)
@@Locomotore99
AMEN
Ortofon 2m Red cartridge - 99 bucks.
Oh yeah the lp60 is pretty good and only around 100 bucks.
I upgraded everything I could on the LP-60. Eliptical stylus and belt combo from LP Gear and an acrylic platter from Hudson Hifi.
When I upgrade my heart is completely set on the Fluance RT85.
I always always always wanted a technics table. When i finally got back into records and really getting into it. I settled for a audiotechnica lp-120. I have an ortofon red cart. I simply went for the lp-120 almost right away without looking at others. And I’m a little bummed out by that. I like a few denon tables and this one particular older sansui table. I generally like direct drive. Just something about it. Oh well..
The cheap ones are out there for a reason. If there’s demand, if there’s a market, there will always be supply
true bad, very sad - manufacturers taking advantage of folks.... like ' beginner' telescope kits for less than $300. - horrid marketing. those cheap tripods with 10 cent gears are simply horrid. makes it unusable for beginners even IF the tube and eyepiece is decent.
@BingBong Boopledoop I only listen to vinyl, I detest the CD for it's clinical sound
U-Turn basic turntable. $179.00 made in the USA. Sounds great and is backed by an excellent warranty and is no frills. Fully manual but simple. No China crap.
U-Turn Custom turntable with acrylic platter, cue and premium cartridge $360.00. Good mid-range place to start. You customize all options on the website, easily comparing prices and specs as you design it for what you need.
Turntables actually affect the audio quality every bit as much as the phono cartridge. It was Linn products of Scotland that demonstrated this back in the 70s when their Linn Sondek LP12 was consistently blowing away hordes of Japaneses direct drives at audio trade shows. It became apparent to anyone with who bothered to compare that turntables don't simply rotate the record but contribute the the system's sound quality as much as other components ion the chain including loudspeakers.
Tuning up a Crosley with a high-end cartridge might be somehow "pointless" but might show off very good that the cartridge is the major point on a turngtable + a/b sound comparison.
One thing that most novices do not realize is that the junk being sold today may not carry the Crosley name badge but you can just about bet almost ANY new toy is a Crosley with a different name. Today's Fisher, Sansui, Pioneer and many others are just in name only. If it says "Made in China" ANYWHERE on it, run, do not walk, to get away from it. Short, straight tone arms with fixed cartridges are a dead giveaway. Plus most of them have cheap plastic platters and not metal ones. I have a Pioneer PL-112D that I have been using for several years and it is perfect for what I use it for. I have a small collection of head shells with different brands of cartridges mounted in them for playing different grades of records. While many would look at my turntable and turn their nose up at it because it didn't cost several thousand dollars, it is quiet, steady and performs flawlessly. Here also is where the counterweight issue comes in. The toy "turntables" have no way of compensating for different cartridge weights and their individual tracking force requirements. Nobody with any sense would install (if they even could) an Ortofon cartridge in a toy that tracks like a dump truck!
Im thinking about getting the audio technica at lp60x bt is that good to start off
A few points: S-shaped tonearms are purely a marketing scheme. They add mass and do not improve tonearm geometry. Anti-skating and counterbalance adjustment are a must. With less expensive turntables, belt drive is quite often quieter than direct drive. Plan on paying $100 minimum for a decent cartridge. A cheapo cartridge can actually damage your records and will probably sound un-natural. Be sure to use a dust cover. Dust is the enemy. Clean your records before each play.
For a starter, what are your thoughts on a Technics SL-BD20d?
I liked your video overall, but not the push to buy an expensive TT. Having said that, your suggestion of buying used to begin with is definitely a good one.
Its not necessarily a push to pay more as it is a push to know what standards to use. Buying vintage was an option and that can be cheaper than the Crosleys.
But if you want new, then you will have to spend a certain amount to get quality.
After this video i was about to go look for a used turntable but i remembered that i have an old furniture right next to me that has a turntable in it XD it was my grand father's and my brother wanted to work on it to make it look good but it's been sitting in my office for like 2 years. I might keep it if it's good then!
Interesting. I just came from a Steve Guttenberg video where he said that "whatever you do, NEVER buy a used turntable." He said they're too delicate. You can buy other components used but never a turntable.
Interesting indeed!!! I have had a few turntables from the 70s that are built like tanks. I think Steve owns a audio store...
Look out for a turntable in second hand / thrift stores. Very often, you can get mid to even high-grade turntables for dirt cheap. They will need some basic work usually (changing belts and such) but you can be very lucky. I got a high quality Dual CS-750 from the esrly 90s for 30! bucks. Simply because the store had just received it, didn't price it yet and the guy in charge of the store that day had no idea of its quality and asked-online price (second hand around 300)
This! A thousand times this!! Best way to get a turntable. My best score ever was a Dual CS-5000 with a Ortofon MC-200 moving coil cartridge for ... $10!
You guys must live in a big city maybe? I live in a small town & have never found any high end turntable.. Might go check before buying anything online though ya never know.
Yep, this video was awesome. Thank you!
I need all of your opinions if my turntable is any good. I have yet to use it as a new belt is on its way from across the world. I was on a pretty small budget for one as I’m in college and have no money. At a pawn shop I found a Philips 437 Syncro Belt Drive table for only $15 and was in need of some major repair. I was just wondering if this is a “toy turntable” or if maybe I found a real winner. Once I have the belt, it should work perfectly
What a great find! Those come up on the Bay of E every once in a while for $100-$200 depending on condition. Philips made really good quality stuff back in the day, before they licensed their name away on crappy earbuds and bluetooth speakers. That table has a decent suspension system (the platter and arm are on a subchassis that hangs on springs to isolate it from noise), and the motor is pretty quiet. Put a good cartridge on it if it doesn't have one already and you've got a turntable that could last another 40 years.
AnalogKids oh sweet, yeah I have got a cartridge for it, haven’t put it on yet, then I also need a new belt. The idiot before that owned it duct taped it shut and put it in a closet for 20 years, so it had impossible residue to get off without creating scratches. I did a pretty well job of hiding the scratched though with some polish. But other than that it looks sweet
Thank you for passing on your knowledge. I’m after a budget system as I don’t have a lot of $$.
I just want to play my parents old vinyl records from time to time and I was hoping to pair it to a Bluetooth speaker, headphones or sound bar as I no longer have an amp & bookshelf speakers. What’s your thoughts on the AT-LP60XBT and the Sony PSLX310BT? Id really appreciated your feedback.
If I didn't have a 40+ year old Thornes 125-MKII with an SME Tonearm that I personally re-built...I'd buy a Fluance RT85. Warning: If you DO buy a pre-owned turntable/tonearm you will undoubtedly have to upgrade the following: 1) cartridge&stylus, 2) mat 3) alignment settings, 4) lubrication, speed-controller parts (electronics) and possibly the motor. You may also need have the tonearm itself removed, inspected and re-wired by an outside professional. After you factor in those maintenance/upgrade costs, you may want to think twice about purchasing a used one. If you do purchase a used one, find an online shop that specializes in re-furb/upgrading that brand.
The image gama range of frequency of the transductor cartrige is not so wide then other sound system like radio and cassette even if it has an expensive preamp phono or cartrige ,stylus needle
The maximum transduction cartrige gamma of frequency range sets between 550hz an 15000hz sound image
The sound image range frequency of a digital signal sets between 25hz to 25khz
My first turntable was a nightmare. It was belt driven with a synchronous motor driven from a circuit board that generated a/c. This was placed right under the pickup so even moving magnet cartridges buzzed like a wasp in a paper bag. It overheated as did its replacement so I bought a second hand 230/110 transformer placed well away from the deck and it sounded far better relying on the main a/c supply. The deck wasn’t cheap either - over $1000 in today’s money. I replaced it with a Linn LP 12. I don’t think the original manufacturer lasted much longer than my turntable.
My best turntable in my collection is a Linn Axis, the budget version of the LP 12. .I heard that the LP 12 is difficult to set up, is that true?
I realise I'm late to the table here, no pun intended, as this video is 2 years old but I thought I'd comment on something that has truely shocked me , I'm no audiophile but I own a technics sl1200 G and run nagaoka mp200 and ortofon 2m bronze, both carts sound very good, but I'd seen reviews on the Audio technica 3600L so I purchased one it took about a week to bed in and was completely blown away it sound phenomenal, it does however tend to loose a tad of detail at very high volume, but I'm not cranked up to 11 on the amp very often. It was a real eye opener as to just how good this £15.99 cart is and in all honesty I'll probably not buy an expensive cart again, has anyone else had this experience.
Also unlike most components quality turntables hold their value well. My 10 year old Basis table and Graham arm sold used for about what I paid for them new. Granted they are $2500 each but come on that was 10 years! Nothing else ever does that!
Charles Miller exactly!
Do you mean that if I have a low budget I am not worth it to play around with turntables and vinyls?
I’m saying that I’ve been there, and that it’s better to buy 1 turntable than 5 (like I did).
@Zhiyuan Shen It is about separates and tweaking.
Of course you can play around with TT and records on a low budget. But it is about buying stuffs and know how to kick the tires.
For instance, my main turntable (46 lbs/21 Kg) has an outboard (12 lbs. shoebox size) power supply, a vacuum unit, separate tonearm & headshell and a MC cartridge. So, one can start with the base unit (TT & PSU) + starter tonearm + MM cartridge. Later on, one can try out different headshells, cartridges and tonearms. The vacuum unit can be added last.
For the next upgrade, one can buy a new turntable and use the same tonearm + (headshell) + cartridge.
another alternative is to build your own, I have a Rega built from every upgrade component on the market.
I've had a built in turntable with that red ceramic cartridge, it wasn't exactly terrible (But there are some). I did upgrade in Feburary of this year to a much better one with a magnetic cartridge, built in preamp and external powered speakers on ebay. I can say it's night and day and 50x better compared to the portable/suitcase style/built in record players.
If you don't mind me asking, what is the turntable you got earlier this year? Thanks!
@@emmett6268 EDIT: Of course! I got both at a Ebay discount the Ion TTUSB turntable and replaced the cartridge with a at3600l (which you cannot do with a red portable turntable cartridge) and Sterling MX3 powered speakers.
@@emmett6268EDIT: 2nd comment I'd rather get an Audio Technica LP60 and the Edifier R980T powered speakers for a beginner record player setupat cheapest and great quality.
I laughed when a customer at work told me about how they purchased an “expensive” turntable for $100.00, and that it was an all in one turntable with a built in CD player, AM/FM radio and USB plus built in speakers. I wish I did more research on my first turntable. Mine is a Cord DJ U Pro, the RRP is $350.00 and it’s far from what I’d say decent. Wish I had gone with a Pro-ject Debut Carbon and just spent the extra money on a seperate preamp.
What do you recommend for a separate preamp for moving coil cartridges?
So totally disregard turntables with P-Mount cartridges? Even if it has a good anti-skate?
P-mounts are fine if you want a basic turntable without the hassle of adjustments.. The tracking force and anti-skate is factory set at 1.25 grams but the higher end p-mounts will allow you to adjust from 1-1.5 grams. Keep in mind that you are limited in the cartridge choices if you go that route.
Boy! I am glad I was born in 1962 and grew up knowing about the best stuff available throughout the decades. I personally have a Direct Drive Realistic LAB-430 that I bought back in 1985 for $130 ($310 in today's money) and works great. It uses a Shure R5X elliptical Diamond needle on an RX47T magnetic cartridge that has W&F of 0.05% and for back-up, I have a Shure RXT5 that uses an R15X stylus. Of course, clean your records thoroughly before playing.
Wait... $350 shipping for a trumpet?
some really great insight here and very concise and easy to understand. thank you!
thank you so much!
Few months ago i bought Marantz TT5005 and it comes with a fixed cartridge but the stylus can be changed and it has a built in preamp as well. I want you to have a look on it and give your opinion. Thanks
@Mike Adams There is a switch under the platter to switch of the built in preamp. Its a facility to connect with a new amplifier which doesn't have Phono input, i bought it for my old Pioneer 518k amplifier which doesn't have the Phono input but now i connected it with new Yamaha RN 602 amplifier and it sounds fantastic.
@Mike Adams I don't fully consider the 120 as junk although not perfect, it has features not found on 1200s like 78 and rev play, I now have a Mk4 1200 when I was really annoyed with the poor AS, just after getting the MK4 I found out on VWestlife 3600 vs Rega Carbon vid he mentions the new spring to fix the AS
very very solid. for someone interested in LP's - simple economics. if $$ is an issue - CD's last a lot longer than LP's, far less fragile. an inexpensive 'table / cartridge bouncing around the soft vinyl grooves at twice or more the weight of a quality design is baaad.
PS , meant to add - Ya can buy a decent DVD /CD player for less than $50. at any 'big box' store. that will allow building up a good collection of CD's. again, WHY are " you" the subject of this really, thinking of starting on LP's ?
I brought my first turntable & only turntable, when I was about 18yo, I am 62 today, a systemdek IIX, with a audio technica AT125 LC cartridge, it is still in immaculate condition, will leave it to my kids when I leave this earth…
I have a mid-range Marantz TT from the mid 80's. I wish I could afford a TT that is high-end, but I am a poor bloke. Aside from new styli and new drive belts, it's done me well. The good old girl is going to be going strong when I am in my grave!
I have a 30Year old Kennwood KD-77F turntable wich has a cartridge which has no screws and I dont think that my turntable is a Toy Turntable. Sure it is no audiophile type of turn table, but i dont think that it sucks. And as long it works I will not buy another one.
You don't need an expensive instrument to be a musician. You need passion and commitment.
he’s talking about the sound quality bozo
Great to see lots of images of the awesome Nagaoka MP-150, fantastic cart!
Turntables are not digital, purely electronic things, they are mechanical things. They have to be made to exacting physical tolerances. Just look at one first. Does it look "plasticky", lightweight, easily mass-produced; or does it look "metally", heavy, and harder to make? This a question naive buyers should first ask themselves.
Informative! As a side note, if the content is good, creators don't have to beg for likes and subs. Your content was valuable and well presented and you didn't beg. Added my sub and like!
Thanks for this vid. I almost bought one with that cheap red looking cartridge
any opinion on the Lenco LS 300?
I've had two Sherwood turntables that look just like the Crosley and they always ended up having problems. 1: The first one eventually stopped playing through one speaker and 2: The second one started vibrating and wouldn't stop no matter how many times I adjusted the arm.
Your TT has a W&F of 0.025%? A weighted or W.R.M.S.?
Some turntables spec their W&F by measuring the output of the motor controller instead of measuring the rotation of the platter.
Have desire to dive back in..
Resetup my system..
Dumped my Rega and vinyl 12 years ago..
Remorse at times..
Have 30 albums and a AT LP60 ...
Should i set it up? Or say F# it.
The first and very important step is to find a good dealer that will let you LISTEN to the product in a suitable ENVIRONMENT. Not in a show room with lots of customers milling about also trying to listen.
If you are actually looking at wow and flutter or other numbers claimed by the manufacturer, you are heading the wrong way. You can't HEAR these numbers. Just LISTEN to the music. Unless of course tech specs, strobe lights, pitch adjusts are things that turn you on, or you fancy yourself a DJ. In which case buy a Technics like every other sheep.
Shipping a used turntable is a disaster in the making. Save up and buy a good NEW first turntable that you will keep for your entire life. You will like it more and you will save money.
I like Technics turntables for their build quality and versatility.
Buying USED might be okay if you buy the turntable from someone you know and can transport it home safely yourself.
Thank you for posting this.
Would you recommend the Fluance RT85? I have also looked into the Rega Planar 2 but I am disappointed with the cartridge that comes with is compared to the Ortophone 2M blue
I'd recommend the 85 over the Planar 2 easily. You will have more flexibility with upgrading carts while the Planar 2 will fight you tooth and nail if you want to deviate from the Rega cart.
Very informative. Im a newbie in this field. 😊
I will start with rega planar 1 plus.
I think this was a good video, but I wish you would have also touched on phono pre amp / phono stage. It's a very in depth and touchy subject, but depending on what someone has or wants to use for gear, it will matter. I'm at the point in my journey that I heavily prefer a deck that does not contain a pre amp. I also prefer my receiver to not have one either, though I find now that some of the more high end receivers these days do put them in. I just like the ability to select my own.
Yeah... I had 3 more points. But realized that most of them were only about turntables so made it all one video. My other points were phono preamps, getting rid of inner groove distortion, and necessary vs unnecessary accessories
@Beitie Beitie Very interesting POV. Think separates and ‘tweakability’.
One often saw a high end audio system consisted of a separate pre-pre-amp for MC, pre-amp, amp and speakers. Why? It was because one could swap an individual component. If one's integrated amp or receiver had a pre-out, then it could be used it as a pre-amp to a separate amp.
With separate amp, one could play around with bi-amp, mono blocks, etc. beside upgrading. The turntable should allow tweaking as well.
But there were minus sides of separates. The total cost of all the individual components usually was higher than a single piece. Matching up components was another. Then, the snake oil, the interconnects and power cords.
Turntable base & motor + (outboard) power supply + tonearm + headshell + cartridge + (interconnect & power cord).
CD player or CD transport + digital cable + DA + interconnect & power cords.
MM cartridge or (MC cartridge + Pre-preamp) + Phono preamp/stage + preamp + (crossover) + amp(s) + (tubes) + Interconnects & power cords + speaker cables + speakers.
What is so in depth or touchy subject about Phono preamp/stage? Remember separates and ‘tweakability’. Do you mean those TT with a Phono preamp? Nothing comes free and it is all about the desire for plug & play.
Pre-preamp/Headamp or MC transformer: to boost low output MC signal to ~MM
Phono preamp/stage: apply the RIAA equalization and boost signal
I seriously doubt a lot of people would go out to buy all of the above with a single purchase. But instead, building the system through years if not decades before ending up with the current one. Think of it as a much longer journey from using a tablet to build a gamer PC.
BTW, there is no need to upgrade any component yet until you are able to hear the difference. For instance, improves transient response from a MC cartridge? Sometime, one's system isn't revealing enough to hear the difference and always use your favorite LP or CD as a reference.
Happy journey, even it is a rabbit hole. :)
We bought Lenco l-3808 for 174 euro and the needle was bad and skipping it sounded good but skipped like crazy
What are your thoughts on the Denon dp-300f?
Is the victrola 8 in 1 player okay?
all in one's usually aren't. the good ones are expensive
Nothing wrong with buying a cheap turntable. Most of them are fairly decently built and most of them sound decent enough. The fact is most people won't even notice a difference between .20 and .25 flutter and the difference is honestly not big enough to warrant spending hundreds of extra dollars especially not if you are a casual listener and collector.
They will definitely hear the difference btween .20 and .020 wow and flutter though, and how many "casual" collectors do you know? If you want to do the music justice, then a good quality turntable with a good quality cartridge and elliptical stylus will at least give you a taste of what vinyl records can do and not damage them in the process.
The important thing to remember is to listen to the turntable in your system and then decide if it's worth the "hundreds of dollars extra".
@@chrisantoniou4366 maybe I misread but it wasn't .20 vs .020. What i saw was .20 vs .25 which modt people won't even notice .05 of a difference. It works fine for me when ripping samples having a cheap turntable. No issues.
@@xDTHx True there's not much difference between .20% and .25% but the subtitle said .025% - so a bit of a misread. The other thing is that a turntable with poor wow and flutter will also give a poor bass response as the usually weaker motor struggles to supply enough power to the groove at those frequencies.
@@chrisantoniou4366 yeah, I don't really need strong low end when ripping samples, but i went back and read the subtitle and it said any number larger then .20 is unacceptable, but that his was .025 so my point still stands. Most cheap vinyl players have a wow and flutter of .25, where as a good chunk of high end machines have a wow and flutter of .20 the fact is modern turntables are all comparable with the only real major difference being build quality. Most cheap turn tables are entirely plastic where as a lot if higher end ones are metal and sometimes glass. When I say high end I mean like the 300 or so dollar range not the thousand dollar range. I mean I could be wrong, but according to every video I've seen this seems to be the case.
@@xDTHx Well, I guess it depends on what you call high end I suppose... I was talking about machines costing over $2000. As for not needing "strong low end when ripping samples" it depends on what you are using them for. I would still strongly suggest you listen to a variety of turntables with records you are familiar to hear the difference a good turntable or arm or cartridge or stylus or phono amp can make. Whether this represents good "value" or not depends on your personal preference and financial situation.
I have been a Hi Fi enhusiast for over 35 years now and had been in the industry as well. I am happy to answer any questions you might have regarding turntables because it is not as simple as it might look on the surface and I would hate for anyone to damage their records with a cheap catrridge.
Great video. Quite helpful. Will visit your storefront.
Do you think that Denon DP-300 is a good turntable?
Technics turntable and an Ortofon cartridge is all I’ll ever run!
I just found a Technics 1700 mk2 in a flea market for $25. It also works perfectly.
Agreed.
Technics SL-1200G with Ortofon 2M Black and Ortofon Concorde Century here.
THE DECLINE 😍
Ok you put both the weakerthans and the decline on your storefront that's serious good taste. The weakerthans vynil was one of my first back when i started ordering from indie labels still one of my favorite albums. My turntable is a technics clone i have had the same for 15 years. Cartridge recently updated to AT95.
Absolutely true.
I did the same mistakes. I started with the AT LP120. I did a lot of mods and not happy with the sound. Even using the Ortofon M Red
All was very frustating and I was very close to give up with the hobby.
I decide give the last chance. I sold all and I bought a Rega P2. Great improvment
I repleace the Rega Carbon for the AT95 Ex, good improvent there
Now I did some mods (I add antiskating system to the tonearm (DIY) and I install the Nagaoka MP-110
Absolutely happy now. But was a long trip with a lot of frustrations that cost me many hundreds of dollars
Gaston Maqueda why didn’t you like the sound of the Audio Technica 120 with the upgraded stylus ? I got the 140xp much better with upgraded stylus
From a DJ. You wanna know what I wish I knew before buying my two RP-7000s? That tonearm bearings can differ per deck and when not properly calibrated can resonate with the music on high output carts.
Contrary to what some vinyl heads may believe, partially due to ignorance and partially due to old tricks DJs used to use before turntablist gear was the norm, I care about getting good sound. Resonances fucking suuuuuuck.
I am not sure if would say The Decline is an audiophile record though! Wow that was compressed to hell, even the HDCD release...
I agree with all your points. Great to the point and informative video! Great job!
i am using a Fg servo SL-BD22
just buy NAD C558 as I did and you'll be set and good to go. nothing can beat it in this price range.
I agree on all your points, I bought the Pro-ject essential iii, comes with the ortofon om10. What's your take on that turn table.