At 46:55, Mr. Finegold mentions that there is a draw by repetition there. The reason that this is the only game that Karpov lost in that variation, is that he chooses not to take the draw there. He has to play a bad move, and hope that Kasparov does the same, because of the match situation. He could've taken the draw, but he prefers to play on and lose. This makes him an even more worthy ex-world champion. Better to risk it all.
I wish someone would give the straight dope regarding the 1984 match. Kasparov was pushing for draws because he knew Karpov was frail and the USSR coaches were feeding him amphetamines. Karpov lost something like 20kg (and he was already thin) and he looked like a walking skeleton at the end. They stopped the match because Karpov was at serious risk of death, he could have had a heart-attack. Kasparov is obviously drug-free throughout.
@@honeychurchgipsy6 Nobody has an interest in publicizing this. Karpov is angry at the doping regiment, he feels it did him dirty by denying him a clear win in 1984. Kasparov doesn't want to admit how weak he was in 1984 relative to Karpov. This whole deal started in the 60s with Tal, who always played on drugs. That's why his health was so awful. Then Fischer emulated Tal, and I suspect his streak before 1972 World Championship was all on drugs, his post Championship psychosis is consistent with the type of damage drugs do. FIscher also refused to play, likely because he realized the drugs damaged his brain permanently and seriously and he would never be able to play at peak level again. This is all inference and reading between the lines. It is clear that the Karpov Korchnoi WCC was all on drugs, they had psychics and all the other New Age druggy nonsense. Karpov wanted to be clean, but he was forced a drug regiment he didn't even control by his doctors.
@@ETBrooD It's something I figured out from a Kasparov interview which he gave several years ago. He said "I was horrified in 1984 when I first played Karpov. He was so strong! So strong! I couldn't believe how much stronger he was than the other players. But I knew how to make draws. So I made draws. Because I also knew he was not so physically well, and he would become weaker during a long match. So I just had to wait him out. This strategy worked for me, but then they stopped the match." I found references to the pills he got in other sources from the 80s, I researched this as best I could, because the drug angle is completely hidden today, nobody wants to talk about it. The Soviets gave Karpov amphetamines for sure, he complained about it at some point. There are references scattered throughout the 80s chess literature, but you have to dig deep. You're welcome.
12:57 Notice how Ben says "My king is way too good.." so does Finegold=Karpov? Some would say "No Karpov is over 70 years old which obviously Ben is not". I would say he doesnt age because he was created by Soviet Russia to be immortal....... ..or i snoked a little too much weed before watching this video lol
Not a huge chess fan but I ain't dumb enough to miss that the whole world worked to make Karpov lose, as Karpov was already winning 5-0 but then they suddenly stopped the tournament and not only removed the score but changed every single rule to make Karpov lose lol ! According to the new ( at the time ) introduced rules Karpov had already won ! Since he had 5 wins against nothing and drew more than 20 games !
And I do respect and appreciate Karpov more than any other chess player cause first, he was true to himself, he was also loyal to his country and he made the American propaganda player (Fisher) shit his pants and surrender as he refused to play Karpov which we all know was the US government banning Fisher from playing a Soviet cause they already knew he was gonna get his ass whooped by Karpov and the slave obeyed his owner/maker
" Karpov was already winning 5-0 but then they suddenly stopped the tournament " you are completely misrepresenting what happened. the match wasn't stopped when Karpov was winning 5:0. after Karpov scored his 5th win, there were 4 draws, then Kasparov won (5:1), then FOURTEEN draws in a row followed, after which Kasparov won two games IN A ROW, bringing the score up to 5:3... and ONLY THEN was the match stopped : ) so much for your "suddenly". "According to the new ( at the time ) introduced rules Karpov had already won" you are seriously saying that under the 1985 rules Karpov had won the 1984 match : ))) well, sport doesn't work that way. and if 1985 rules had been in place back in 1984, both players would have been aware of that, and the match would have unfolded differently. "[they] changed every single rule to make Karpov lose lol !" the format was changed from "the first to achieve 6 wins" to "the best of 24 games" , which basically means much quicker (in the aborted match neither player had scored 6 wins after 48 games, twice as many). i can't see how this was disadvantegous to Karpov, given that Kasparov - being younger and in better shape - had already demonstrated to be more resilient when the format is longer. not to mention that the format didn't include any tiebreaks, so if the score was even, Karpov would have retained the title.
@@merzeporgoher "he made the American propaganda player (Fisher) shit his pants and surrender" Fischer quit professional chess before a challenger was even revealed. there's zero reason to assume he would have played the '75 match against any different challenger than Karpov (like Korchnoi). Karpov himself publicly disagreed with your interpretation ("I don't want to claim that he was afraid of me: most probably he was afraid of himself") - but what does he know. people who claim to know what the result of the hypothetical '75 WC match would be are talking out of their ass,. noone can know it for sure, and least of all the US government. what we do know for sure is that Karpov - a brilliant player as he was - had NEVER surpassed Fischer's peak rating, despite his long and fruitful career (he reached his own peak rating in 1994) and rating inflation.
A source I take very seriously, though not one who was directly involved as far as I know, argued with me that Karpov's desire to continue the first match was neither reasonable nor rational, that he had lost a huge amount of weight, was barely sleeping any more, and that continuing it might have endangered his days. The source did not say the last clause in the sentence but that was clearly the implication. Can anyone tell me what the truth of this matter is and where I can find very solid to definitive data about it, or as much data or differing sources on this, but ones one can take seriously, please? I was alive at the time and following what was going on and have attacked the F.I.D.E. president ever since, who on the basis of my current knowledge I consider one of the worst people for chess to have ever lived, and dismissed ideas that Karpov behind the scenes was the engineer or architect of the match ending. I think there is every reason to take seriously his claims he wanted it to go on. What is the truth of the matter and what are the best places, even at ridiculous length, where one can find out more about this? It is a question which interests me passionately. I saw Karpov and Kasparov play in London a world championship, or at least a part of it, and could have spoken to Kasparov though I did not, and did not have a similar opportunity to do so with Karpov. For reasons we can get into if you ask me, I do not consider Kasparov a reliable source, except on technical matters in his chess books, but certainly not on anything else. Thank you very much indeed.
...it's relatively easy if you understand Russian...there are/were a numerous interviews of Anatoly Karpov to different russian ЮТ(р)уб/TH-cam channels...
He was fed amphetamines by his team, and he was rail-thin and couldn't take the drugs. That's the whole story. And Kasparov (who was completely drug free, obviously, you can tell from his bull-like frame) KNEW IT, and took advantage of this by prolonging the match with draws to wear down Karpov's health, because he knew he wouldn't be able to win with Karpov at his peak strength.
@@annaclarafenyo8185 Amphetamines should be illegalized in any competitive game. They currently make it to where you basically have to be on them to compete in first-person shooters (the reduction in reaction time + increase in hand-eye coordination / memory is just too great), and it's just terrible for people's physical health as well as mental health as they dance the dance with a highly addictive substance. Chess communities should ban it as well. In fact, I think it officially is banned, but I'm not sure if they do testing to catch anyone. I've seen a lot of chess players blink rapidly and even move their lips/jaw around in odd ways. That second set of side effects is very common for amphetamines/Ritalin/yayo/etc. I could see problems arising if a chess player legitimately has ADHD. I don't know the answer there, but I'm sure the answer elsewhere is to save everyone from needing to get buzzed on a schedule II drug to stay competitive. They could either let people test to certain levels in their blood if the medication is prescribed or perhaps just say sorry, no Adderall is allowed even if you have ADHD.
@@AG-ld6rv Since Kasparov, it has become obvious that the best play comes when you are completely clean. Karpov hated the amphetamines, but since Tal and Fischer, people felt it was necessary. Clean play is always better IF you are in top physical shape, this is what I think the video-game people aren't getting. Of course this stuff should be banned from all competitions.
@@annaclarafenyo8185 OK, so you see someone who has a bull-like frame and then conclude that he doesn't do drugs? Later we infer that this somehow proves that drugs are bad for you, because Karpov was frail and (allegedly) took amphetamines, that this proves that drugs don't/ can't enhance a player's play. Reminds me of the time I was on a poker cruise and a dude at the table (really terrible player of course) explained that nobody could have smuggled pot on to the ship, because one guy got caught.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 91 | คู่เอก "คมอาวุธ vs อเล็กเซย์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/V0RkEfYFsgM/mqdefault.jpg)
"you don't see anyone winning with black in world Championships anymore" except for one thing
Also in the last world championship too. Nepo folded and now Ding folded.
@@12jswilson Also except for one thing.
@@vigilante8374 then Ding won with black!
Also, fries...
Karjakin beated Carlsen with black - the only game lost by Carlsen in the 3 last WC matches he played
Legendary lecture Benjamin!
At 46:55, Mr. Finegold mentions that there is a draw by repetition there. The reason that this is the only game that Karpov lost in that variation, is that he chooses not to take the draw there. He has to play a bad move, and hope that Kasparov does the same, because of the match situation. He could've taken the draw, but he prefers to play on and lose. This makes him an even more worthy ex-world champion. Better to risk it all.
Ben Finegold's review of the Kasparov/ Karpov 1985 match is a valuable contribution to the history of chess. Well done.
like a meme: kasparov goes g3; karpov like: "wait, that's illegal!"
Karpov vs Kasparov was the peak of Chess.
beautiful lecture!
thank you Ben, extraordinary lecture, a pleasure to see , listen your presentation, commentary, tnx for the sponsor as well!
35:46 I thought that was a "Have you ever had a Dream" impression
He is the Mr Ballen of chess.
Perfect analogy!
Wow, thaks so much, you bring history to the perspective of the game.
alternatively, he brings a historical perspective to the game.
Great lecture, thank you!
thanks for this one, fascinating
Florencio Campomanes called off the 84-85 match because he knew which side his bread was buttered on and the bread was Russian.
I wish someone would give the straight dope regarding the 1984 match. Kasparov was pushing for draws because he knew Karpov was frail and the USSR coaches were feeding him amphetamines. Karpov lost something like 20kg (and he was already thin) and he looked like a walking skeleton at the end. They stopped the match because Karpov was at serious risk of death, he could have had a heart-attack. Kasparov is obviously drug-free throughout.
@ANNA CLARA Fenyo - sounds fascinating - I want to know more now.
@@honeychurchgipsy6 Nobody has an interest in publicizing this. Karpov is angry at the doping regiment, he feels it did him dirty by denying him a clear win in 1984. Kasparov doesn't want to admit how weak he was in 1984 relative to Karpov. This whole deal started in the 60s with Tal, who always played on drugs. That's why his health was so awful. Then Fischer emulated Tal, and I suspect his streak before 1972 World Championship was all on drugs, his post Championship psychosis is consistent with the type of damage drugs do. FIscher also refused to play, likely because he realized the drugs damaged his brain permanently and seriously and he would never be able to play at peak level again. This is all inference and reading between the lines. It is clear that the Karpov Korchnoi WCC was all on drugs, they had psychics and all the other New Age druggy nonsense. Karpov wanted to be clean, but he was forced a drug regiment he didn't even control by his doctors.
@@annaclarafenyo8185 You got any evidence for this?
@@ETBrooD It's something I figured out from a Kasparov interview which he gave several years ago. He said "I was horrified in 1984 when I first played Karpov. He was so strong! So strong! I couldn't believe how much stronger he was than the other players. But I knew how to make draws. So I made draws. Because I also knew he was not so physically well, and he would become weaker during a long match. So I just had to wait him out. This strategy worked for me, but then they stopped the match."
I found references to the pills he got in other sources from the 80s, I researched this as best I could, because the drug angle is completely hidden today, nobody wants to talk about it. The Soviets gave Karpov amphetamines for sure, he complained about it at some point.
There are references scattered throughout the 80s chess literature, but you have to dig deep. You're welcome.
@@annaclarafenyo8185 So you don't have evidence, ok.
Nice thx.
Thank you
12:57 Notice how Ben says "My king is way too good.." so does Finegold=Karpov?
Some would say "No Karpov is over 70 years old which obviously Ben is not". I would say he doesnt age because he was created by Soviet Russia to be immortal.......
..or i snoked a little too much weed before watching this video lol
Not a huge chess fan but I ain't dumb enough to miss that the whole world worked to make Karpov lose, as Karpov was already winning 5-0 but then they suddenly stopped the tournament and not only removed the score but changed every single rule to make Karpov lose lol ! According to the new ( at the time ) introduced rules Karpov had already won ! Since he had 5 wins against nothing and drew more than 20 games !
And I do respect and appreciate Karpov more than any other chess player cause first, he was true to himself, he was also loyal to his country and he made the American propaganda player (Fisher) shit his pants and surrender as he refused to play Karpov which we all know was the US government banning Fisher from playing a Soviet cause they already knew he was gonna get his ass whooped by Karpov and the slave obeyed his owner/maker
" Karpov was already winning 5-0 but then they suddenly stopped the tournament "
you are completely misrepresenting what happened.
the match wasn't stopped when Karpov was winning 5:0.
after Karpov scored his 5th win, there were 4 draws, then Kasparov won (5:1), then FOURTEEN draws in a row followed, after which Kasparov won two games IN A ROW, bringing the score up to 5:3...
and ONLY THEN was the match stopped : )
so much for your "suddenly".
"According to the new ( at the time ) introduced rules Karpov had already won"
you are seriously saying that under the 1985 rules Karpov had won the 1984 match : )))
well, sport doesn't work that way.
and if 1985 rules had been in place back in 1984, both players would have been aware of that, and the match would have unfolded differently.
"[they] changed every single rule to make Karpov lose lol !"
the format was changed from "the first to achieve 6 wins" to "the best of 24 games" , which basically means much quicker (in the aborted match neither player had scored 6 wins after 48 games, twice as many).
i can't see how this was disadvantegous to Karpov, given that Kasparov - being younger and in better shape - had already demonstrated to be more resilient when the format is longer.
not to mention that the format didn't include any tiebreaks, so if the score was even, Karpov would have retained the title.
@@merzeporgoher "he made the American propaganda player (Fisher) shit his pants and surrender"
Fischer quit professional chess before a challenger was even revealed.
there's zero reason to assume he would have played the '75 match against any different challenger than Karpov (like Korchnoi).
Karpov himself publicly disagreed with your interpretation ("I don't want to claim that he was afraid of me: most probably he was afraid of himself") - but what does he know.
people who claim to know what the result of the hypothetical '75 WC match would be are talking out of their ass,.
noone can know it for sure, and least of all the US government.
what we do know for sure is that Karpov - a brilliant player as he was - had NEVER surpassed Fischer's peak rating, despite his long and fruitful career (he reached his own peak rating in 1994) and rating inflation.
Didn't miss d6, just missed the whole continuation 🤦
A source I take very seriously, though not one who was directly involved as far as I know, argued with me that Karpov's desire to continue the first match was neither reasonable nor rational, that he had lost a huge amount of weight, was barely sleeping any more, and that continuing it might have endangered his days. The source did not say the last clause in the sentence but that was clearly the implication. Can anyone tell me what the truth of this matter is and where I can find very solid to definitive data about it, or as much data or differing sources on this, but ones one can take seriously, please? I was alive at the time and following what was going on and have attacked the F.I.D.E. president ever since, who on the basis of my current knowledge I consider one of the worst people for chess to have ever lived, and dismissed ideas that Karpov behind the scenes was the engineer or architect of the match ending. I think there is every reason to take seriously his claims he wanted it to go on. What is the truth of the matter and what are the best places, even at ridiculous length, where one can find out more about this? It is a question which interests me passionately. I saw Karpov and Kasparov play in London a world championship, or at least a part of it, and could have spoken to Kasparov though I did not, and did not have a similar opportunity to do so with Karpov. For reasons we can get into if you ask me, I do not consider Kasparov a reliable source, except on technical matters in his chess books, but certainly not on anything else. Thank you very much indeed.
...it's relatively easy if you understand Russian...there are/were a numerous interviews of Anatoly Karpov to different russian ЮТ(р)уб/TH-cam channels...
He was fed amphetamines by his team, and he was rail-thin and couldn't take the drugs. That's the whole story. And Kasparov (who was completely drug free, obviously, you can tell from his bull-like frame) KNEW IT, and took advantage of this by prolonging the match with draws to wear down Karpov's health, because he knew he wouldn't be able to win with Karpov at his peak strength.
@@annaclarafenyo8185 Amphetamines should be illegalized in any competitive game. They currently make it to where you basically have to be on them to compete in first-person shooters (the reduction in reaction time + increase in hand-eye coordination / memory is just too great), and it's just terrible for people's physical health as well as mental health as they dance the dance with a highly addictive substance. Chess communities should ban it as well. In fact, I think it officially is banned, but I'm not sure if they do testing to catch anyone. I've seen a lot of chess players blink rapidly and even move their lips/jaw around in odd ways. That second set of side effects is very common for amphetamines/Ritalin/yayo/etc.
I could see problems arising if a chess player legitimately has ADHD. I don't know the answer there, but I'm sure the answer elsewhere is to save everyone from needing to get buzzed on a schedule II drug to stay competitive. They could either let people test to certain levels in their blood if the medication is prescribed or perhaps just say sorry, no Adderall is allowed even if you have ADHD.
@@AG-ld6rv Since Kasparov, it has become obvious that the best play comes when you are completely clean. Karpov hated the amphetamines, but since Tal and Fischer, people felt it was necessary. Clean play is always better IF you are in top physical shape, this is what I think the video-game people aren't getting. Of course this stuff should be banned from all competitions.
@@annaclarafenyo8185 OK, so you see someone who has a bull-like frame and then conclude that he doesn't do drugs? Later we infer that this somehow proves that drugs are bad for you, because Karpov was frail and (allegedly) took amphetamines, that this proves that drugs don't/ can't enhance a player's play. Reminds me of the time I was on a poker cruise and a dude at the table (really terrible player of course) explained that nobody could have smuggled pot on to the ship, because one guy got caught.
29:44 Karen doing something sus
👍👏
Wrong channel?
1st post, Trump forever!
magnus isn't world champion anymore!
He is until the end of April.
This lecture is originally from 2020
Maybe he isn‘t world champion. But he sure as hell is the best player in the world and I think he will reclaim his title.