To be fair, I prefer Daisy’s beef being with the rolling stock coaches, cause she’s a moving self efficient coach, where’s the others are beneath her from her perspective, and I’m glad the rail car and the coaches completely took advantage of that dynamic for a unique story idea.
Great video, man. Daisy is definitely one of the shows' most unique characters in the series, and I'd say your video described Daisy's role in the series well.
As a woman, this video encapsulates ALL my thoughts on this topic. Daisy is a well-written character who just happens to be female (and who happens to wear some makeup). I never understood all the "sexist" complaints about her. Although i will admit, despite how good her TVS theme is, i was a little shocked to learn of its origin 😅
Despite Daisy not appearing all that much in the model era, she did got more appearances in the Magazine and Annual stories. The former of which gave her more stories and character dynamics to bounce off with such as James which is something that despite her return in CGI, the team never done this rivalry between these similar vain and snooty characters. And also, to most people - both Daisy and Diesel interacted in said-magazines first way before S21 years later.
I love Daisy! Too often, female characters have to be nice and sweet to be liked. Daisy is one of the few that doesn't follow those rules and I'm glad she doesn't. Every female character is a different side or different ways people perceive femininity. Daisy is a prima-dona, an archetype that I really love to see in media mostly because it's fun to watch and I kinda wish I had at least half of that self confidence. My girl is iconic. Also, on a side note, I love her model series' theme song. It fits her personality so well. It oozes with self-confidence and sass. I know the inspiration can be a bit controversial, but come on... Pink Panther's theme had that same vibe.
Wow! This was such a great video! I've always thought early thomas female representation couldn't be as bad as the media made it out to be, but you put it into words very well! And you've really helped me appreciate Daisy even more!
clearly who ever wrote that Character profile on her didn't know much about railway jobs as the Thomas the tank engine did or diesel locomotives for that matter
So, Daisy's attitude about goods work could actually be based on her class's real-world performance. As a DMU, the class 101 is intended to be used in semi permanently coupled trains made up of multiple self-propelled units, or in Daisy's case, just one. As a result, their powertrains are spec'd with this in mind, and they're actually not very powerful at all - only 150hp per unit, less than the average modern car, and only really enough to drive itself plus maybe one small "trailer" car. So, when Daisy says that pulling trucks is "bad for her swerves", she's actually not just trying to get out of working - pulling any significant amount of weight can risk overstressing her engine.
While I have a lot of problems with the Brenner-Era, as it doesn't do very well when it comes to playing with tone and it doesn't have the same magic as the models, the one thing that I like how Daisy was handled.
Pretty sure it was Mitton who had the idea of Daisy having the excessive makeup! He also wanted her to have pink buffer beams to represent female character and she has a theme based on ‘The Stripper’.
OMG I ALSO thought Diesel was the Diesel STH was referring to in "comes to breakfast" as a kid as well especially cause on the Thomas comes to breakfast VHS the Duck and Diesel trilogy was literally right after comes to breakfast. As for Daisy herself yeah I think it's safe to say when Tug does her Sodor's Finest CGI will ABSOLUTELY win. She really ended up as an afterthought in the model era and it was clear after season 4 when it came to purely original stories Allcroft/Mitton and soon just Mitton had their clear favorites such as Percy, James, Gordon, Bill and Ben, Rusty, and Duncan while not really caring much for Edward, the Scottish Twins, Duck, Peter Sam, Sir Handel, and well Daisy. and When the hit era came I noticed a weird trend with returnees where they just randomly show up out of nowhere only to dissapear again be it Duck in a random music video, The scots in Gordon and the engineer, the obligatory once a season appearence of bill and ben and Daisy in CAE. So like most characters Daisy had a weird run throughout the franchise BUT her character was THANKFULLY never ruined in any era and that's saying a lot based on the likes of Edward, Skarloey, Toby, Henry and the Scottish Twins
@@LegendaryCaptain That's funny. Aren't we forgetting they gave PeterSam and the refreshment lady a follow-up, and D&D had 2 episodes dedicated to them? They weren't completely forgotten, better than Daisy having little impact the one time she was mentioned post-classic era.
this was recommended to me on a sm64 romhack vid and i looked at the title inb4 i did the thumbnail so i initially thought this was about Princess Daisy of Sarasaland
Not only is it speaking on behalf of others who are more than capable of speaking for themselves, it's also ironically misogynistic to say that women are essentially not allowed to be womanly
The Bechdel test is honestly laughable; it's so meaningless. Like, what bearing do two females talking to each other have on inclusivity of females? Why does the conversation have to specifically exclude any male character? Shouldn't it exclude specifically discussion _romantic feelings?_ But what if they are romantic feelings for another woman? But let me put it this way, we have a story about a brother and sister, they are portrayed as equal and inclusive, and clearly not there for romantic interests. There is a 50/50 of male and female, with both characters having equal screen time and competency. This fails the Bechdel test, but is it 'not inclusive of women?' IDK, you decide.
Admittedly, I haven't really seen the episodes in order myself during childhood either. (I mostly watched off of Sprout). I likely missed them saying railcar in 'Breakfast', and I'm not sure I even saw Percy's Predicament. Even BoCo was a blur for me, but I know I saw 'names and numbers' and James' bee sting. I have to admit, Daisy sorta feels a bit isolated from the steam vs diesel confict... Her arc was with the Ffarquhar trio, while Diesels was with the remaining engines, and neither side of steam really crossed paths with the other diesel then. And compared to the likes of D261, BoCo, 199 or Bear, she never seemed to stir much controversy like them despite arriving before all of them. Her being built for branch lines particularly distanced her from the big mainline guys. And her absence for S3, sort of shafted her of the such chance Thomas and Percy got. I do have to say, from the banters like big main vs little shunter, pulling coaches or trucks, or road vs rail, we never really see them use these scenarios with diesel like with steam. I also remember Tug's theory video questioning if Daisy would've even made it to S2. I gotta agree with the 'never sticks'. Sorta plagued my experience watching her S20 episodes. I wonder if the 'fiercely loyal' was meant for her fitter... but then the Hit guys certainly could make such a mixup. *west side actually (despite JBS)
Honestly all this controversy is a bunch of Bullshit. Daisys appearances in the show did not turn me into a misogynist or give me sexist views towards women
You know, am I the only one who thought Daisy's theme sounded like Cruella De Ville's song from 101 Dalmatians? And fitting both characters are highly entitled females that care about the glamor of their appearance and think lowly of things that are beneath them. Though Daisy at least is a slighter better character compared to Cruella. Since other than she's not an evil villainess, she does have a conscience when she realized she was in the wrong.
10:47 You are misrepresenting that situation, missing a lot of the nuance of the situation in order to prove your point. But the thing is, her situation was more than than just getting offended on someone else's behalf. Also, I remember for a fact that not all Jewish Americans were supportive of her statements, but you made it sound like every Jewish American agreed, when that is not correct. But to add the actual nuance; The problem with her statement was that she was what she was comparing the Holocaust to. She formed a false equivalency between the Holocaust and Conservatives getting called out for there reactions to a loss of privilege (too often equality looks like discrimination from those in privilege). Not to mention Ben Shapiro is a known Jewish Conservative who owns conservative media company that releases media that is conservative in nature and have been known to fuel the flames of the "culture war." Since her firing, she has went on to work with Den Shapiro and the Daily Wire. She also was against masks and vaccines requirement instituted by Hollywood studios and unions during the COVID-19 Pandemic (which is different than government requirements in that any employer, association, or organization has the legal right to impose health and safety requirements within the bounds of the law, while the government requirements are a more complicated subject involving common, civil, and constitutional law and legal precedent that varies based on jurisdiction that we will NOT get into). Not to mention the situation with Daisy sounds more like a man who did not want feminine female engines, only tom-boy female engines in a talking train show with a primarily male child audience at the time. Though, he did seem fine with feminine female coaches, but not for the engines. Sounds like he may have been of the mindset that allowed women to break gender barriers in jobs so long as they also broke gender behavior norms as well and behaved more similar to the men who performed that same job. Of course our own respective biases will impact how we interpret the situation. I clearly lean left and you right, but your lack of context and nuance on the Gina Carano situation does leave to to wonder what other context you have left out that is thus affecting my understanding and interpretation of what you have presented and questioning your integrity.
The other main issue with the Gina Carano case is the lack of equality: Had Disney/Lucasfilm fired Pedro Pascal as well or let both get off scot-free, then the outrage wouldn't be nearly as big. We've also seen stuff like this with other conservative actors like Vic Mignogna & Zachery Levi where others (specifically the far left) would tell others to antagonize them and boot them out of the neighbourhood, making Gina's posts accurate and not a false equivalency at all. In context of this video: This was the best case of "Someone offended for someone else" I could recall from recent memory. I strongly believe people pick unnecessary fights wasting time, braincells, where there are more important matters. Would be interesting if more Jewish folk outside Ben Shapiro do come to defend Gina once the trial starts. Not sure if they could be called in as "witnesses" but we'll find out what happens.
@@dadocta5168 Im sorry keep your star wars culture war bullshit out of this, youre already an ignorant, misinformed slob we dont need to hear more outta you
Diesel's scheming and manipulative side is still present in CGI despite not having his diesel revolution belief. Unlucky Tug even like him in CGI. Thankfully Diesel remains a devious bad guy for the rest of the CGI series til it's end, showing that what happens with Daisy never lasted long as always. You may disagree but I hope you understand all the same.
Never thought I’d see the day where there’s alt right pipeline garbage for Thomas The Tankin Dankin but here we are. Like this video isn’t as bad as a lot of slop, but it’s really poorly researched with a lot of the points either being too vague or just incorrect - particularly on why Daisy is considered sexist in the first place. People, even when the original book on her was written in the UK, didn’t like her for being a nagging female character who’s selfish and only cares about herself and her own image, without much sign of her growing from that - which is very much a stereotype of women that still remains today unfortunately, at least in some form. It wasn’t JUST because she wore makeup, although that did play a part in emphasising that stereotype. (It also doesn’t help that Daisy’s original theme was based on a piece called “The Striper”. I love Mike O’Donnel and Junior Campbell but I have no idea what they were smoking to come up with that idea.) This video fails to mention the nuances of Daisy’s controversy, seemingly boiling it down to “Political Correctness GONE MAD!” In America, which it simply wasn’t. Whether or not Wilbert Awdry intentionally wrote a stereotype is up the air (most likely he didn’t) but that is undeniably what he ended up and the show arguably made it worse. Also unironically using clips of Ben Shapiro in a Thomas video is pretty cringe. Like, he’s a proud bigot, interviewing another proud bigot; not the examples you want to use.
You really want to present se*ism with nuance? 🙃 I'm here to present indisputable facts so nothing gets lost or misconstrude. If you have evidence on the backlash purely from the books before the TV show, let us know right now! I literally address why she was deemed se*ist which was carried over to the news media + the unusually raunchy music choice for her theme in the TV show. You say this like I didn't. How hasn't political correctness gone made? Thomas has gone from Daisy, to authoritarian, to winter holiday, to DEI, they want the audience to get political so we shall. It's a good thing the original TV crew & Andrew Brenner (particulary Davy Moore) backtracked on Sigglekow's warning disproving the claim Daisy was bad for female representation. Can you think of other cases of people being offended for someone else? I use the Gina Carano story because it is one of the most well-known examples.
@dadocta5168 Hello! Didn’t expect to get a response from the man himself. I wanted to say a couple things in response that hopefully come off in a nicer way, as I’m sorry if I offended you with my previous comment. I also wanted to apologise as when I wrote my comment, I hadn’t seen the entire video - I was about half way through. Some of the context as such was lost on me and for the most part your conclusion was pretty well written with a lot of points I agree with even in my previous comment. However, I do stand by that the opening of your video isn’t very well structured, especially if you were coming from a standpoint of “facts” as, again, Daisy being unpopular just because of her makeup is at best a misinterpretation. I feel as such you didn’t address the why she is deemed sexist effectively because of this, as you only bring up the misunderstanding of her character in your closing statement without giving much evidence beforehand in my opinion at least. With Daisy’s theme, you did mention it, however you didn’t address why it was a strange choice, even using it as a Segway into a joke about “shows were better in my day.” It’s good evidence enough for why she wasn’t liked, which you address, but you phrased it more as a good thing with the use of the joke, making the point weaker. Like I said Daisy was always unpopular, which can be found in old newspaper clippings of old UK newspapers like The Guardian and others. I’m not sure where to find them but they do exist. It wasn’t just a political correctness thing in America alone; it was a mistake on Wilbert’s part - very similar to the whole n word in Henry The Green Engine thing. You mention in your closing thoughts that Daisy was considered sexist because she was the first female character who wasn’t personality-less coaches or one off humans, which I do agree with. However I wouldn’t say that’s political correctness gone mad, just bad timing, as an antagonistic female character in a world full of diverse male characters was always going to come off as stereotypical - especially in 80s Britain and America. That’s why in 2015 - 2020, when she was brought back as you mentioned and what many culture war idiots claim to be the beginning of the “woke” ideology which you failed to mention, no one cared that her original character was rude and selfish as by then the world of Thomas was already full of other female characters that weren’t that - like you said. This is what I mean by nuance with Daisy - it isn’t just one person said this so cancel her, there’s more layers to it that personally I think you’ve could’ve done much better at portraying. Also, with Gina Carano, I admit I’m not the most in loop with her however I don’t think she was a good example to use as she is a real person who said some horrible things and got called out, while Daisy is a fictional character who didn’t fit the vibe of the show. There are many examples of people being offended for someone else, but with Gina, it was a debatable bigot being called out for being a bigot, and again in the clips you showed being protected by an undeniable bigot in Ben.
@@thediamondtank"i also wanted to apologize" Dude, i think you had a lot time to actually write a proper response instead of letting your emotions get the Best of you because you saw somebody having a different point of yours.
@@edwinve4112 that’s why I apologised, there’s no point in having conversations if I’m not well informed and I jumped the gun, which is what my second response was correcting. I stand by my points though for the reasons I put particularly in my second comment, (and the video still opened pretty poorly in my opinion).
They should have made another Chassis for Daisy,so they could have had her in the season 2 Christmas Party Episode as well as The Special Letter Episode!
It’s funny how us Australians never required a stupid companion show, an Australian narrator and we didn’t bloody complain about aspects of the show and their way of portraying characters. What is it with the Americans wanting the world act and think like them! 4:27 The majority never complain about the lack of male representation in a shows that are about predominantly female interest. Not everything has the be 50/50! 5:42 they say offensive to the female gender but the one who makes a stand is a male producer?
I agree shining time Station Had Always to much Power the Thing with Daisy Christmas advanture And Magic rail roads but i think the complaint was not complete unjustified ITS Just how matel responded matel took IT way to sirous and changed to much to fast Nia and Rebecca are Not Charcters the Just a way for matel to say WE ar Not sexist and now giev us esg Pointi
So while I think you did a good job explaining Daisy as a character, I think you could’ve done a better job explaining things like femininity and I feel like you kinda went off topic with that Star Wars actress and I also think you let some of your other strong personal opinions steer this video in a bit of a controversial direction. I’m not saying you shouldn’t share your opinions, but somethings should have definitely been stated with a bit more care. Not trying to tell you what to do, that’s just my take on this video cause I do want to see you improve this style of content.
Hey that's fine, 👍 Part of the reason I "strayed away from feminity" was to show Daisy is not defined by her gender. There's much more to her than the make-up. I did bring up some feminine factors like The Bechdel test, "liking" instead of loving like devolving into a stereotypical love interest, and comparing her to other females.
As a kid, it always bothered me how little "girl trains" were in the show, I loved Daisy & Mavis, but i always wanted a girl steam train, and all I had wrre the classic 5 seasons... and Magic Railroad, so Lady was and still is my absolute favorite, but this video gave me a new appreciation to Daisy i didnt have prior due to her not being prominent
@@dadocta5168 I was quoting Sidorak in that scene you used lol. I grew up with the English dub from Canada, not sure what language you saw given your origin but in that scene he goes "Ah, formalities"
5:28 "the female gender"? Male, female, and XY arrangements ranging from XX7 (047-XXY) to 7XY (seven X and 1 Y chromosome) are sexes. Genders include: man, woman, boy, girl, etc. Gender is sociological, i.e. the standards and expectations of someone who is either identified or self-identifies as a gender. Sex is biological, i.e. the arrangement of stuff in DNA. (Assuming no genetic chimerism, intersexism, etc.) I hope that clears things up for you!
10:05 this guy definitely got rid of Daisy because he couldn't handle the shame off being aroused by a vehicle. Why else do you think they introduced Rebecca? She's nothing like Daisy, a Girl Next Door and made of pure girlfriend material.
Holy sh*t i never knew they're were 1,088 characters i thought about a 1000 or 900 but jesus thats a lot includiong backround characters or one time characters or rws exlucive characters etc yes call me stupid if you want but i never new that great video mate
@@dadocta5168 Well, if the dome fits! 😆 But hey, if they booted him off, they could have at least made one more episode for him. Though personally, I feel like Phillip's kind of like BoCo's substitute in a way, just with a vastly different behavior and backstory
@@dadocta5168 great timing, I just remembered I like her because she reminds me of Miss Piggy. Hang on, did you say there are other ladies in the Thomas community?
I was a Thomas kid growing up in the late 80's and early 90's in America, I just want to say, even though Daisy was not featured ON the Shining Time Station show, STS was mainly a trojan horse to get the Thomas franchise onto public TV as part of a variety show that could be argued to have educational value to children... as far as the actual video tape merchandise, tapes with selections of Thomas episodes WITHOUT the STS segments were the PRIMARY video merchandise, and the tape featuring Daisy's two Season 2 episodes featured her on the cover and was named after her, complete with corresponding Ertl and Wooden Railway models hyping the "new" character as they strategically introduced her to the US in the early 90's. She even had Shining Time Station branding on her Ertl model packaging. Its not like Daisy was hidden from US audiences, her two episodes just weren't featured on Shining Time Station as shorts, which was a fate shared by a number of other episodes. EDIT: I'm so used to this being left out of the conversation from UK based commenters that I wasn't expecting you to cover that at the very end! :P
0:35 Sausage party? That's a horrible way to describe the fact that there were mostly male engines in the show. It sounds gross and offensive to me, but I guess I shouldn't get offended for you. Also I thought the Bechdal test was whether the two girl characters talk about romance or not.
Yeah, like step two, I've heard it as "do they talk about something other than romance?" Instead of "do they talk about something other than a man?" That's what I meant.
To be fair, I prefer Daisy’s beef being with the rolling stock coaches, cause she’s a moving self efficient coach, where’s the others are beneath her from her perspective, and I’m glad the rail car and the coaches completely took advantage of that dynamic for a unique story idea.
Daisy's return in CGI in general was just... fantastic. Her starring roles in S20 & S21 were all incredibly good.
Daisy has certainly had quite an interesting history in the show. I’m glad that the Brenner era brought her back and did her justice.
Without destroying her character like Henry, Toby or Sir Handle. She remained true to herself.
@@dadocta5168Handel*
@@Jediah-s6p huh, never noticed before. Cheers!
Great video, man. Daisy is definitely one of the shows' most unique characters in the series, and I'd say your video described Daisy's role in the series well.
Cheers, this required a lot of research, fact-checking, and exhaustive amount of time.
@dadocta5168 it was definitely worth it I'll tell you.
@@dadocta5168 mavis was a tom boy and daisy was a posh lady
As a woman, this video encapsulates ALL my thoughts on this topic. Daisy is a well-written character who just happens to be female (and who happens to wear some makeup). I never understood all the "sexist" complaints about her. Although i will admit, despite how good her TVS theme is, i was a little shocked to learn of its origin 😅
Despite Daisy not appearing all that much in the model era, she did got more appearances in the Magazine and Annual stories. The former of which gave her more stories and character dynamics to bounce off with such as James which is something that despite her return in CGI, the team never done this rivalry between these similar vain and snooty characters. And also, to most people - both Daisy and Diesel interacted in said-magazines first way before S21 years later.
Interesting. To be fair I don't think the magazines & annuals are canon but looking at season 3 those stories could have.
I love Daisy! Too often, female characters have to be nice and sweet to be liked. Daisy is one of the few that doesn't follow those rules and I'm glad she doesn't. Every female character is a different side or different ways people perceive femininity. Daisy is a prima-dona, an archetype that I really love to see in media mostly because it's fun to watch and I kinda wish I had at least half of that self confidence. My girl is iconic.
Also, on a side note, I love her model series' theme song. It fits her personality so well. It oozes with self-confidence and sass. I know the inspiration can be a bit controversial, but come on... Pink Panther's theme had that same vibe.
8:58 they made a dummy chassis for Daisy to sit on because the chassis with the motor was already attached to BoCo.
Messy Boco to you too.
@@arthurengine I see what you did there 😁
Wait what did he/she do?
@@Grayson94535 In Springtime for Diesel, Daisy said to Den and Dart "Messy Boco", to which Dart said "Messy Big Pooh to you too".
@ ty
@@Grayson94535 Actually it's "Merci beaucoup" (Thankyou very much) in French.
Wow! This was such a great video! I've always thought early thomas female representation couldn't be as bad as the media made it out to be, but you put it into words very well! And you've really helped me appreciate Daisy even more!
Why thank you that makes me feel proud of myself. I'm glad I could offer a better understanding of Daisy.
clearly who ever wrote that Character profile on her didn't know much about railway jobs as the Thomas the tank engine did or diesel locomotives for that matter
So, Daisy's attitude about goods work could actually be based on her class's real-world performance. As a DMU, the class 101 is intended to be used in semi permanently coupled trains made up of multiple self-propelled units, or in Daisy's case, just one. As a result, their powertrains are spec'd with this in mind, and they're actually not very powerful at all - only 150hp per unit, less than the average modern car, and only really enough to drive itself plus maybe one small "trailer" car. So, when Daisy says that pulling trucks is "bad for her swerves", she's actually not just trying to get out of working - pulling any significant amount of weight can risk overstressing her engine.
5:46 compared to us goths, Daisy's makeup looks subtle😂
I bring this up because I STILL WANT A GOTH ENGINE!🦇
While I have a lot of problems with the Brenner-Era, as it doesn't do very well when it comes to playing with tone and it doesn't have the same magic as the models, the one thing that I like how Daisy was handled.
What an interesting video! Do more topics like these! Keep up the great work and have a great day!
@@Gordonfan4368 Thankyou, and yes I certainly do intend to tackle more Thomas Topics.
@ like what?
Pretty sure it was Mitton who had the idea of Daisy having the excessive makeup! He also wanted her to have pink buffer beams to represent female character and she has a theme based on ‘The Stripper’.
Overall Mitton isn’t perfect and he was a little bit of a sexist.
@@KilldaneW Lol, you have to remember that Britt was the Producer and she had to approve this design.
@@edwinve4112 this is true, but still it isn’t the best way to introduce the first female engine in the show.
00:28 oh man that is probibly what Brenner thought mattel was thinking
OMG I ALSO thought Diesel was the Diesel STH was referring to in "comes to breakfast" as a kid as well especially cause on the Thomas comes to breakfast VHS the Duck and Diesel trilogy was literally right after comes to breakfast.
As for Daisy herself yeah I think it's safe to say when Tug does her Sodor's Finest CGI will ABSOLUTELY win. She really ended up as an afterthought in the model era and it was clear after season 4 when it came to purely original stories Allcroft/Mitton and soon just Mitton had their clear favorites such as Percy, James, Gordon, Bill and Ben, Rusty, and Duncan while not really caring much for Edward, the Scottish Twins, Duck, Peter Sam, Sir Handel, and well Daisy. and When the hit era came I noticed a weird trend with returnees where they just randomly show up out of nowhere only to dissapear again be it Duck in a random music video, The scots in Gordon and the engineer, the obligatory once a season appearence of bill and ben and Daisy in CAE.
So like most characters Daisy had a weird run throughout the franchise BUT her character was THANKFULLY never ruined in any era and that's saying a lot based on the likes of Edward, Skarloey, Toby, Henry and the Scottish Twins
@@LegendaryCaptain That's funny.
Aren't we forgetting they gave PeterSam and the refreshment lady a follow-up, and D&D had 2 episodes dedicated to them? They weren't completely forgotten, better than Daisy having little impact the one time she was mentioned post-classic era.
DEI? You mean 🎶Doofenshmirtz Evil Incorporated!🎶? LOL
What is this "Doofenshmirtz"? It sounds German. 😆
@@dadocta5168 Yes. In fact, it's Gimmelshtump, Drusselstein
He's from Phineas and Ferb
@@EndTH-camShorts_ I know. He also appeared in Milo Murphy's Law, AKA the most underrated Phineas and Ferb spin-off ever that deserves a Season 3
@@dylanlyles9453 I was telling da Docta
Really cool video!
Daisy is one of my favorite characters💥
Thankyou and I'm happy to hear she is a favourite even amoung male characters.
I think we just got spoiled that unlucky tug is making a daisy video. Guess we know who might be next.
this was recommended to me on a sm64 romhack vid and i looked at the title inb4 i did the thumbnail so i initially thought this was about Princess Daisy of Sarasaland
Not only is it speaking on behalf of others who are more than capable of speaking for themselves, it's also ironically misogynistic to say that women are essentially not allowed to be womanly
22:13 Steam Engine: besides it's not like he's only a jerk to steamies, he's a jerk to everyone
The Bechdel test is honestly laughable; it's so meaningless. Like, what bearing do two females talking to each other have on inclusivity of females? Why does the conversation have to specifically exclude any male character? Shouldn't it exclude specifically discussion _romantic feelings?_ But what if they are romantic feelings for another woman?
But let me put it this way, we have a story about a brother and sister, they are portrayed as equal and inclusive, and clearly not there for romantic interests. There is a 50/50 of male and female, with both characters having equal screen time and competency. This fails the Bechdel test, but is it 'not inclusive of women?' IDK, you decide.
Admittedly, I haven't really seen the episodes in order myself during childhood either. (I mostly watched off of Sprout). I likely missed them saying railcar in 'Breakfast', and I'm not sure I even saw Percy's Predicament. Even BoCo was a blur for me, but I know I saw 'names and numbers' and James' bee sting.
I have to admit, Daisy sorta feels a bit isolated from the steam vs diesel confict...
Her arc was with the Ffarquhar trio, while Diesels was with the remaining engines, and neither side of steam really crossed paths with the other diesel then. And compared to the likes of D261, BoCo, 199 or Bear, she never seemed to stir much controversy like them despite arriving before all of them. Her being built for branch lines particularly distanced her from the big mainline guys. And her absence for S3, sort of shafted her of the such chance Thomas and Percy got.
I do have to say, from the banters like big main vs little shunter, pulling coaches or trucks, or road vs rail, we never really see them use these scenarios with diesel like with steam.
I also remember Tug's theory video questioning if Daisy would've even made it to S2.
I gotta agree with the 'never sticks'. Sorta plagued my experience watching her S20 episodes.
I wonder if the 'fiercely loyal' was meant for her fitter... but then the Hit guys certainly could make such a mixup.
*west side actually (despite JBS)
I really enjoyed this look into Daisy!
YOOOO the Theorist is in the house!
Well, whos gonna tell him,
Honestly all this controversy is a bunch of Bullshit. Daisys appearances in the show did not turn me into a misogynist or give me sexist views towards women
Doesn’t mean she wasn’t a sexist stereotype
10:59 thats offensive. im a jew
Is it my comment or regarding Gina Carano?
You know, am I the only one who thought Daisy's theme sounded like Cruella De Ville's song from 101 Dalmatians? And fitting both characters are highly entitled females that care about the glamor of their appearance and think lowly of things that are beneath them. Though Daisy at least is a slighter better character compared to Cruella. Since other than she's not an evil villainess, she does have a conscience when she realized she was in the wrong.
That’s funny! I thought that too! But nothing compared to Diesel’s theme! His theme sounds North African/Southwest Asian!
@javielalvarez5459 Like the Siamese Cats song from Lady and the Tramp.
Hearing fucking Stayed Gone caught me so off guard
"Yes indeedy"
10:47 You are misrepresenting that situation, missing a lot of the nuance of the situation in order to prove your point. But the thing is, her situation was more than than just getting offended on someone else's behalf. Also, I remember for a fact that not all Jewish Americans were supportive of her statements, but you made it sound like every Jewish American agreed, when that is not correct. But to add the actual nuance; The problem with her statement was that she was what she was comparing the Holocaust to. She formed a false equivalency between the Holocaust and Conservatives getting called out for there reactions to a loss of privilege (too often equality looks like discrimination from those in privilege). Not to mention Ben Shapiro is a known Jewish Conservative who owns conservative media company that releases media that is conservative in nature and have been known to fuel the flames of the "culture war." Since her firing, she has went on to work with Den Shapiro and the Daily Wire. She also was against masks and vaccines requirement instituted by Hollywood studios and unions during the COVID-19 Pandemic (which is different than government requirements in that any employer, association, or organization has the legal right to impose health and safety requirements within the bounds of the law, while the government requirements are a more complicated subject involving common, civil, and constitutional law and legal precedent that varies based on jurisdiction that we will NOT get into).
Not to mention the situation with Daisy sounds more like a man who did not want feminine female engines, only tom-boy female engines in a talking train show with a primarily male child audience at the time. Though, he did seem fine with feminine female coaches, but not for the engines. Sounds like he may have been of the mindset that allowed women to break gender barriers in jobs so long as they also broke gender behavior norms as well and behaved more similar to the men who performed that same job.
Of course our own respective biases will impact how we interpret the situation. I clearly lean left and you right, but your lack of context and nuance on the Gina Carano situation does leave to to wonder what other context you have left out that is thus affecting my understanding and interpretation of what you have presented and questioning your integrity.
The other main issue with the Gina Carano case is the lack of equality: Had Disney/Lucasfilm fired Pedro Pascal as well or let both get off scot-free, then the outrage wouldn't be nearly as big.
We've also seen stuff like this with other conservative actors like Vic Mignogna & Zachery Levi where others (specifically the far left) would tell others to antagonize them and boot them out of the neighbourhood, making Gina's posts accurate and not a false equivalency at all.
In context of this video: This was the best case of "Someone offended for someone else" I could recall from recent memory. I strongly believe people pick unnecessary fights wasting time, braincells, where there are more important matters.
Would be interesting if more Jewish folk outside Ben Shapiro do come to defend Gina once the trial starts. Not sure if they could be called in as "witnesses" but we'll find out what happens.
@@dadocta5168
Im sorry keep your star wars culture war bullshit out of this, youre already an ignorant, misinformed slob we dont need to hear more outta you
Diesel's scheming and manipulative side is still present in CGI despite not having his diesel revolution belief. Unlucky Tug even like him in CGI. Thankfully Diesel remains a devious bad guy for the rest of the CGI series til it's end, showing that what happens with Daisy never lasted long as always. You may disagree but I hope you understand all the same.
Never thought I’d see the day where there’s alt right pipeline garbage for Thomas The Tankin Dankin but here we are.
Like this video isn’t as bad as a lot of slop, but it’s really poorly researched with a lot of the points either being too vague or just incorrect - particularly on why Daisy is considered sexist in the first place.
People, even when the original book on her was written in the UK, didn’t like her for being a nagging female character who’s selfish and only cares about herself and her own image, without much sign of her growing from that - which is very much a stereotype of women that still remains today unfortunately, at least in some form. It wasn’t JUST because she wore makeup, although that did play a part in emphasising that stereotype. (It also doesn’t help that Daisy’s original theme was based on a piece called “The Striper”. I love Mike O’Donnel and Junior Campbell but I have no idea what they were smoking to come up with that idea.)
This video fails to mention the nuances of Daisy’s controversy, seemingly boiling it down to “Political Correctness GONE MAD!” In America, which it simply wasn’t.
Whether or not Wilbert Awdry intentionally wrote a stereotype is up the air (most likely he didn’t) but that is undeniably what he ended up and the show arguably made it worse.
Also unironically using clips of Ben Shapiro in a Thomas video is pretty cringe. Like, he’s a proud bigot, interviewing another proud bigot; not the examples you want to use.
You really want to present se*ism with nuance? 🙃 I'm here to present indisputable facts so nothing gets lost or misconstrude. If you have evidence on the backlash purely from the books before the TV show, let us know right now!
I literally address why she was deemed se*ist which was carried over to the news media + the unusually raunchy music choice for her theme in the TV show. You say this like I didn't.
How hasn't political correctness gone made? Thomas has gone from Daisy, to authoritarian, to winter holiday, to DEI, they want the audience to get political so we shall. It's a good thing the original TV crew & Andrew Brenner (particulary Davy Moore) backtracked on Sigglekow's warning disproving the claim Daisy was bad for female representation.
Can you think of other cases of people being offended for someone else? I use the Gina Carano story because it is one of the most well-known examples.
@dadocta5168 Hello! Didn’t expect to get a response from the man himself. I wanted to say a couple things in response that hopefully come off in a nicer way, as I’m sorry if I offended you with my previous comment.
I also wanted to apologise as when I wrote my comment, I hadn’t seen the entire video - I was about half way through. Some of the context as such was lost on me and for the most part your conclusion was pretty well written with a lot of points I agree with even in my previous comment.
However, I do stand by that the opening of your video isn’t very well structured, especially if you were coming from a standpoint of “facts” as, again, Daisy being unpopular just because of her makeup is at best a misinterpretation. I feel as such you didn’t address the why she is deemed sexist effectively because of this, as you only bring up the misunderstanding of her character in your closing statement without giving much evidence beforehand in my opinion at least.
With Daisy’s theme, you did mention it, however you didn’t address why it was a strange choice, even using it as a Segway into a joke about “shows were better in my day.” It’s good evidence enough for why she wasn’t liked, which you address, but you phrased it more as a good thing with the use of the joke, making the point weaker.
Like I said Daisy was always unpopular, which can be found in old newspaper clippings of old UK newspapers like The Guardian and others. I’m not sure where to find them but they do exist. It wasn’t just a political correctness thing in America alone; it was a mistake on Wilbert’s part - very similar to the whole n word in Henry The Green Engine thing.
You mention in your closing thoughts that Daisy was considered sexist because she was the first female character who wasn’t personality-less coaches or one off humans, which I do agree with. However I wouldn’t say that’s political correctness gone mad, just bad timing, as an antagonistic female character in a world full of diverse male characters was always going to come off as stereotypical - especially in 80s Britain and America. That’s why in 2015 - 2020, when she was brought back as you mentioned and what many culture war idiots claim to be the beginning of the “woke” ideology which you failed to mention, no one cared that her original character was rude and selfish as by then the world of Thomas was already full of other female characters that weren’t that - like you said.
This is what I mean by nuance with Daisy - it isn’t just one person said this so cancel her, there’s more layers to it that personally I think you’ve could’ve done much better at portraying.
Also, with Gina Carano, I admit I’m not the most in loop with her however I don’t think she was a good example to use as she is a real person who said some horrible things and got called out, while Daisy is a fictional character who didn’t fit the vibe of the show. There are many examples of people being offended for someone else, but with Gina, it was a debatable bigot being called out for being a bigot, and again in the clips you showed being protected by an undeniable bigot in Ben.
@@thediamondtank"i also wanted to apologize" Dude, i think you had a lot time to actually write a proper response instead of letting your emotions get the Best of you because you saw somebody having a different point of yours.
@@edwinve4112 that’s why I apologised, there’s no point in having conversations if I’m not well informed and I jumped the gun, which is what my second response was correcting. I stand by my points though for the reasons I put particularly in my second comment, (and the video still opened pretty poorly in my opinion).
21:19 Lude? Isn't that a "substance" that relieves anxiety.
*Lewd (crude and offensive in a se*ual way.)
@dadocta5168 Ah, here we are again with the many oddities of the English language.
@@TobyOliverHenryFan hehe as long as we are learning to improve our vocabulary :)
Where'd you get the thomas version of Stayed Gone from?
NWRKRIS as mentioned in the credits 😊
They should have made another Chassis for Daisy,so they could have had her in the season 2 Christmas Party Episode as well as The Special Letter Episode!
It’s funny how us Australians never required a stupid companion show, an Australian narrator and we didn’t bloody complain about aspects of the show and their way of portraying characters.
What is it with the Americans wanting the world act and think like them!
4:27 The majority never complain about the lack of male representation in a shows that are about predominantly female interest. Not everything has the be 50/50!
5:42 they say offensive to the female gender but the one who makes a stand is a male producer?
I agree shining time Station Had Always to much Power the Thing with Daisy Christmas advanture
And Magic rail roads but i think the complaint was not complete unjustified ITS Just how matel responded matel took IT way to sirous and changed to much to fast Nia and Rebecca are Not Charcters the Just a way for matel to say WE ar Not sexist and now giev us esg Pointi
Daisy is a stripper stereotype
NGL that's kinda funny
She isn’t.
I’m surprised the infamous #metoomovement did not make an issue out of Daisy’s classic theme!
So while I think you did a good job explaining Daisy as a character, I think you could’ve done a better job explaining things like femininity and I feel like you kinda went off topic with that Star Wars actress and I also think you let some of your other strong personal opinions steer this video in a bit of a controversial direction. I’m not saying you shouldn’t share your opinions, but somethings should have definitely been stated with a bit more care. Not trying to tell you what to do, that’s just my take on this video cause I do want to see you improve this style of content.
Hey that's fine, 👍 Part of the reason I "strayed away from feminity" was to show Daisy is not defined by her gender. There's much more to her than the make-up. I did bring up some feminine factors like The Bechdel test, "liking" instead of loving like devolving into a stereotypical love interest, and comparing her to other females.
As a kid, it always bothered me how little "girl trains" were in the show, I loved Daisy & Mavis, but i always wanted a girl steam train, and all I had wrre the classic 5 seasons... and Magic Railroad, so Lady was and still is my absolute favorite, but this video gave me a new appreciation to Daisy i didnt have prior due to her not being prominent
You forgot of the first edition of Henry the green engine
As one of the contraversy
0:42 Sidorak jumpscare
How is that jumpscare? Oh well, glad to see more Bionicle fans :)
@@dadocta5168 I didn't know what other word to use for that cameo. "Ah...Formalities..."
@@DaimosZ More like the other way around: "What references formalities? Bionicle lol" EDIT were you refering to yourself trying to describe it?
@@dadocta5168 I was quoting Sidorak in that scene you used lol. I grew up with the English dub from Canada, not sure what language you saw given your origin but in that scene he goes "Ah, formalities"
@@DaimosZ Oh I see. In the version I watched that is also on TH-cam he says "Of course, formalities."
20:34 lol
5:28 "the female gender"?
Male, female, and XY arrangements ranging from XX7 (047-XXY) to 7XY (seven X and 1 Y chromosome) are sexes.
Genders include: man, woman, boy, girl, etc.
Gender is sociological, i.e. the standards and expectations of someone who is either identified or self-identifies as a gender.
Sex is biological, i.e. the arrangement of stuff in DNA. (Assuming no genetic chimerism, intersexism, etc.)
I hope that clears things up for you!
Nobody asked for this. You're just picking a fight because you see something you disagree with
Is the “Stayed Gone” cover available anywhere
NWRKRIS' Soundcloud.
10:05 this guy definitely got rid of Daisy because he couldn't handle the shame off being aroused by a vehicle.
Why else do you think they introduced Rebecca? She's nothing like Daisy, a Girl Next Door and made of pure girlfriend material.
what version of stayed gone is that?
NWRKRIS recreated the song on his soundcloud.
14:23
To be able to pull heavy loads.
Stupid joke is stupid.
0:26 lol
13:43 lol
Holy sh*t i never knew they're were 1,088 characters i thought about a 1000 or 900 but jesus thats a lot includiong backround characters or one time characters or rws exlucive characters etc yes call me stupid if you want but i never new that great video mate
Guys, when you think about it, we technically got BoCo in CGI 😱
Nice video by the way!
Are you implying BoCo was gender swapped in CGI? I rather him be booted off like Henry & Edward lol 😆
@@dadocta5168 Well, if the dome fits! 😆
But hey, if they booted him off, they could have at least made one more episode for him. Though personally, I feel like Phillip's kind of like BoCo's substitute in a way, just with a vastly different behavior and backstory
@@dadocta5168 I like BoCo and he deserves to appear more in the show rather than be booted off.
Do I correctly hear the tune for “stayed gone“ from hazbin hotel in the background?
"Yes indeedy"
19:58 so random I laugh so hard
As the only woman in this fandom I think she's alright👍
Ummm I could name a couple others but yeah we could use a few more :) I'm glad you think Daisy isn't that bad.
@@dadocta5168 great timing, I just remembered I like her because she reminds me of Miss Piggy.
Hang on, did you say there are other ladies in the Thomas community?
@@gothnerd887 Yes I was even talking to Liz Productions if she wanted to voice her opinion on Daisy as a woman, but she declined.
Rosiethecutie,Liz
Don't worry, you're not alone!!
I was a Thomas kid growing up in the late 80's and early 90's in America, I just want to say, even though Daisy was not featured ON the Shining Time Station show, STS was mainly a trojan horse to get the Thomas franchise onto public TV as part of a variety show that could be argued to have educational value to children... as far as the actual video tape merchandise, tapes with selections of Thomas episodes WITHOUT the STS segments were the PRIMARY video merchandise, and the tape featuring Daisy's two Season 2 episodes featured her on the cover and was named after her, complete with corresponding Ertl and Wooden Railway models hyping the "new" character as they strategically introduced her to the US in the early 90's. She even had Shining Time Station branding on her Ertl model packaging.
Its not like Daisy was hidden from US audiences, her two episodes just weren't featured on Shining Time Station as shorts, which was a fate shared by a number of other episodes.
EDIT: I'm so used to this being left out of the conversation from UK based commenters that I wasn't expecting you to cover that at the very end! :P
I sure hope this Thomas video doesn't take a hard right turn...
Wasn't Daisy tilting on her right when her springs broke? 😅
0:35 Sausage party? That's a horrible way to describe the fact that there were mostly male engines in the show. It sounds gross and offensive to me, but I guess I shouldn't get offended for you.
Also I thought the Bechdal test was whether the two girl characters talk about romance or not.
0:35 That's journalism for you.
Not at all. It is not meant to be about men because the bechdel test is meant to prove females can stand on their own.
Yeah, like step two, I've heard it as "do they talk about something other than romance?" Instead of "do they talk about something other than a man?" That's what I meant.
21:00
Man. This is crazy!
I've always wanted to see a Sodor's Finest on Daisy and looks like I got my wish lol 😂 🚋💚
Glad to be of service 🥸
@@dadocta5168thanks, keep up these amazing videos you make and hopefully we'll see The Unlucky Tug make a Daisy video too 🤞 👍
idk ab u guys but this dont feel like a good video
6 hour
Good ay my fellow Aussie
"And a good day to you too captain"