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- Why were the four restrictions given to Gentile believers by the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15? Torahism (aka Hebrew Roots) usually suggests they were a sort of “starter pack” of commands to start the new believers on a path to learning the entire Law of Moses. Mainstream Christianity sees them as guidelines for unity in the new Church. Verse 21 is the key to understanding this passage.
CITED VIDEO
New Observations on the four requirements of the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15)
• New Observations on th...
00:00 Open
01:10 The explanation given in Acts 15:21
04:33 The Hebrew Roots theory: Learning Moses every Sabbath
08:16 Christian interpretation: For the sake of unity
10:41 The four requirements as guidelines
13:28 Wrap it up, professor.
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¿Por qué el Concilio de Jerusalén dio las cuatro restricciones a los creyentes gentiles en Hechos 15? El toraísmo (también conocido como raíces hebreas) generalmente sugiere que eran una especie de "paquete de inicio" de comandos para iniciar a los nuevos creyentes en el camino hacia el aprendizaje de toda la Ley de Moisés. La corriente principal del cristianismo los ve como pautas para la unidad en la nueva Iglesia. El versículo 21 es la clave para entender este pasaje.
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I didn't mention this in this video, but for my Hebrew Roots friends who believe that the Gentiles would be learning Moses every Saturday in the Sabbath, it's important to remember that those who confessed faith in Jesus we're getting kicked out of the synagogue (John 9:22, 12:42) just as Jesus said would happen (John 16:2). Which is probably why in the book of Acts we see the early church meeting in each other's houses, rather than synagogues. -Rob
Of course they were kicked out of because a lot of the Jews did not believe Christ was the Messiah and they were teaching that circumcision and keeping the loss saves you not Christ. Why we just won't follow the teachers of Christ second John 9 through 10
Rob, you started your debate with Tovia by saying that Yeshua taught Torah, and anyone who teaches against the Law of Moses should be considered a false prophet. Should we all consider you a false prophet because you constantly oppose the Law of Moses, according to your own words? 1) If you believe that the Law of Moseh is "permissible but not required", why does the end time prophecy by Zechariah in Chapter 12 mention that Egypt and all the nations who do not observe Sukkot will be punished? 2) Why will ten men from all nations (Gentiles) grasp a Jew's tzitzits and say, "Let us go with you, for we heard that God is with you." 3) Isaiah 2:2-3, in the last days, verse 3 says, and many people will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of YeHoVaH, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us concerning His ways and that we may walk in His paths; for the Law will go forth from Zion, and the word of YeHoVah from Jerusalem." Why go to the mountain to learn the Law, if you believe it is only permissible but not required? Do you despise the God of the Tanakh now that you have replaced Him on the throne with Jesus? Looking forward to you reply.
Now you are taking opinions from others on this page to defend your distorted opinion on really what is going on. First, you continue to deceive God's people. This incident that occurred in the book of John was prior to the resurrection. Second, this was Jewish parents worrying about the Jewish leaders kicking them out of the Synagogue for accepting Yeshua as the Messiah. These were not Gentile's believer. Scriptures, tells us after resurrection there were many Jews and God-fearing proselytes "Gentiles converted to Judaism" who believed and well inform in Hebrew scriptures that invited Paul to teach in the Synagogue every Sabbath and urging them to continue in the grace of God, and the next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of God Acts 13:42-44 , this happened before Acts 15. Read Acts 17:17. So, you continue to distort scripture to prove your double-minded view. Permissible but not required... and let's not forget the divine assignment you received from God to teach against His Law.
The premise of this argument presupposes that no Synagogues permitted new believers at the time of the Jerusalem council. This is unlikely since the council was addressing comments made by religious authorities that would have been associated with different Synagouges in the region
While it is true that there was a period of time after the Jerusalem Council that many believers were removed and even banned from fellowship in the Synagogues. There is no reason to assume that this was the case during the time of the Jerusalem Council.
How do we know this?
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.
These Pharisees who believed in the Messiah would have been associated with nearby Synagogues. Which means, that at the time of the Jerusalem Council there was an openneas to many of the new converts. What occured afterwards is a different issue all together.
If we read Acts from begining to end, there is an escalation of friction between the early believers and those still in Judaism. It is conceivable that the intent of the Jeruselum council was to ensure that the new convert would be attending Synagogue in the same way as the Jews based on the context clues being discussed.
Unfortunately, due to continued friction between the early believers and those within Judaism, what would have been intended may not have occured. And if it did, it would have been short lived as the fallout between the early believers and the Jews reached its breaking point.
@@justinbutcher44 Good points Justin. Just a reminder that we are talking about gentile believers, not Jewish believers. The gentile believers that were not Jewish either, and have never adopted the Jewish faith, never went to the synagogues. The Jewish believers may have, as the verses that you mentioned states. So in order to address the Act 15 question - the fact that Moses was read in the synagogues each sabbath is not saying that gentiles would hear the law in synagogues, but that Jewish believers would. Point is, the Torahist view is incorrect.
As someone who got pulled into the Hebrew roots movement for years your teachings have been a blessing and helped clear up a lot of confusion. Thank you!
uh... I know the pain. It's like a vortex.
@Kitkat90102 : It's only confusion because the Non-Hebrew Roots Movement is teaching an entirely different interpretation of Scripture snd making up their own man-made traditions and "holy days" which the early Church would never have accepted, and living fully lawless lives. 🙃
@@joshkaye5303 It's easy to be lawless. 🙃
Yeshua said His Commandments are not burdensome. He gives joy in obedience. 💕
I must admit that your explanation is very convincing. I decided to look in my Matthew Henry commentary on these verses and he agrees with your interpretation. This is definitely food for thought and I will be chewing on it for a while. Thank you.
So blessed to hear that! Seek truth and you will find truth.
Is it possible that he is quoting from the Matthew Henry commentary? I am just asking this question because the Matthew Henry commentary was written in the 1700's. So, Matthew Henry couldn't agree with him; it would have to be the other way around. When digesting the thought, make sure to regurgitate it from your first stomach. The most important thing is to make sure what you are chewing is supported by scripture and not one's interpretation. Remember, when one interprets scriptures, one tends to distort the scriptures, and why interpret the scriptures wasn't God clear the first time he spoke?
@@sundownsam3369 You are lost, sadly so. Read Eph 4, God gives use men to keep us away from Bad theology. like yours. I bet John Gill would agree with Pastor Rob, even John Calvin would
@@salpezzino7803 No one is disputing that God uses men to admonish and encourage believers, but remember that satan himself will use men to deceive others, don't be ignorant. Do you know that with 90% truth, one can camouflage a false doctrine?
The question is, does God agree with Rob Solberg's distorted teachings? It is amazing how Gentile Christian believers, instead of letting the Spirit of God give them the understanding of what God made clear the first time he spoke, lean on what men teach. You appear as one who agreed with Rob Solberg but threw a pretentious question out.
Acts 15 is a prime example of where the Torahist has to approach the Bible as a constant barrier to their preconceived ideas.
As is the letter to the Galatians, which is an entire treatise about the heresy.
Not true, Acts 15 is not a barrier at all when understood in its social/ cultural context.
The Bible says the council of Jerusalem was convened to formally consider whether circumcision and/or keeping the law was necessary for salvation. (Acts 15:2). Subsequently, this was the yoke which Peter spoke of- that keeping the law for the ‘sake of salvation’ was something neither he nor his forefathers were ever able to bear. For we know that God’s law in and of itself is not burdensome (Deut 30:11-14, Psalm 19, 119, 1 John 5:3) and is actually for our good (Deut 4:40, 5:29, 6:18, 6:24, 10:13). But obeying it to earn salvation is impossible and only through Christ can we have eternal life! 🙌🏼
So keeping the focus on this salvational issue, after much debating James finally declared for Gentiles to:
“abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.”
These 4 decrees are not independent of each other and are actually interconnected. At the time, it was a common Greco Roman cultural belief that it was acceptable to worship multiple gods. Many gentiles still believed they could just integrate Jesus with their other gods and still go to their pagan temples.
The satanic worship at these temples was set up to quite literally bond/ yoke the devotee to other gods. They would kill/ strangle an animal (the sacrifice), eat its flesh and drink its blood (the covenantal meal) and then have sex with a cult prostitute who was believed to have a direct connection/ embodiment of the god/ goddess. It was a sexually driven, idolatrous, sacrificial event.
This kind of sexual immorality went beyond just pre/ extramarital sex. Cult harlotry is, was and always will be a big no-no and a salvational issue. This was the ultimate type of defilement, adultery and betrayal which God from the beginning has always hated and spoke out against. This would and can still cause one to lose their salvation!
So for gentiles who were just beginning to turn to the one true God (Acts 15:19), keeping these 4 decrees was the most basic and necessary action in beginning their walk. James furthermore suggests they would continue to grow in learning God’s ways as “the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” (Acts 15:2)
For a deeper scriptural, cultural and linguistic dive into this I recommend the book, “The Lifting of the Veil,” by Avram Yeshoshua. You can also find it for free at seedofabraham . com
Mr Solberg, I have a question : you usually defend any verse that our HR roots friend throws at us. Can you name a few verses that make them think or question their beliefs? If so, then what are some good Bible verses we can use ? And I also wonder what they say about them . I'm just trying to learn here. I hope I make sense here.
Hello, Irvin! One thing I have found over the last few years as I've been really studying Torahism is that there is typically not one passage or verse you can cite that will "snap them out of it." At the end of the day, this is not really a theological problem. Christians who adopt a Torah-observant lifestyle (and are divisive about it) seem to do so as an issue of identity or a misguided psychological/emotional commitment of some sort. And I very much believe there is a spiritual aspect to it, as well. With some people, you can almost see a spirit of legalism overtake them.
Some Torah-observant Christians are reasonable people and willing to engage in a friendly, respectful discussion. In that case, a dialog can be fruitful. And a good place to start is discussing what the sacrifice of Jesus accomplished, and how it relates to the sacrifices required under the law of Moses.
But be aware that there are also many Torah-observant Christians who adopt an arrogant and judgmental attitude and just want to argue and fight and prove you wrong. Those folks have closed minds and are not genuinely pursuing the truth. And in that case, my advice is to love them and pray for them, but don't get into a Scriptural debate. It's better to take an "agree to disagree" approach and hold your ground biblically. Don't let them guilt you about not eating kosher, not keeping the Saturday Sabbath, and so on. Our salvation and our righteousness are complete in Jesus! There is nothing we can do to add a thing to the righteousness that is ours through faith in Him.
Blessings, Rob
Very Informative.
But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality."
Acts 21:25 ESV
Same 4
Yes. That makes sense. And is congruent with the rest of the Scriptures. Thanks.
Somehow, this is the clearest and simplest explanation I have come across. Thank you
Glad it was helpful, Kyle!
Shalom, RLS
Another excellent explanation with sound biblical doctrine. Thank you Professor Solberg! Keep these videos coming. They are very helpful in conversations/discussions. I would also note that the Hebrew Roots interpretation of vs 21 is not sound because elsewhere in scripture the disciples of Yeshua are told they will not be allowed in the synagogues, but would be kicked out. The early Christian believers didn’t meet in temples or synagogues. They met, according to scriptures, in each other’s homes. How can vs21 be talking about new gentile believers learning Torah over time if 1) they are not welcomed in the places referred to where Moses is taught on Shabbat? And, 2) They are not gathering in synagogues, but in each other’s homes instead? My opinion is Moses was taught in synagogues. Jesus was being taught in the homes and the only reason the 1st Christian’s were found at any synagogue was to evangelize and teach Yeshua
I was thinking this exact same thing.
Great point, Brandon. Thanks!
Acts 14:1 Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed.
Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.
Meeting house to house daily does not prevent anyone from going to the synagogue, just as gathering with likeminded believers for fellowship throughout the week doesn't keep a Christian from going to church on Sunday. It might be rare to see people who go to church on Sunday also seeking God together during the week, but I don't think that's because the two are mutually exclusive as much as other challenges with out church culture and with the hearts of men.
The faith and works issue is very complicated simply because there are a lot of moving parts. However consider this which may offer at least some clarity.
Traditional Jewish conversion is designed to bring a convert, who has already decided to accept the Torah and loves God, into the social and economic family of Israel. It’s a social thing short and simple.
Now simultaneously there is a covenant issue. To enter the covenant with God didn’t mean “become Jewish” as described above. All God required was to love God and a WILLINGNESS to obey him. “All that the lord says we will do”. This is basis of the covenant.
A human being must first have faith in order to believe, then a willingness to follow through as you learn.
For example if you have faith and willingness to take on the responsibility of Torah, You don’t have to panic if you don’t automatically know all the laws and are capable of performing them. You’re in the covenant regardless of whether or not your community accepts you.
This is different than someone who loves God and doesn’t want the responsibility of Torah. This is a righteous gentile or even Christian. These folks are perfectly fine the way they are and shouldn’t be forced into a covenant they may not even want. There is no biblical foundation that God condemns them.
Becoming Jewish and taking on Torah is not the obligation of anyone who loves God. That being said conversion into covenant and also the Jewish people is real and is an option for anyone. You don’t have to have Hebrew blood to convert. Abraham “converted” first by faith and then by obedience to whatever God asked him to do.
It’s complicated but easy at the same time.
-A rational Jewish perspective
Yes, i believe Dr. Solbergs interpretation speaks more sense and clarity. Fact that their has never been a "half now half later doctrine" in all of the gospel. If it has never been taught then we conclude it is not the way God intended it to be. Gods covenant, promises, blessing, love, salvation, goodness etc is given FULL and complete. It has always been Gods overwhelmimg character in all of the gospel so their is no such thing as "starter pack" principle. Again, interpreting the bible based on a presuppositions and personal biases is not sound and very dangerous. Thats why Paul had to deal with Judahizers and now, torahism. NOTHING MUST SUPERSEED JESUS CHRIST IN EVERYTHING. Torahism superseeds Christ authority thus must be resisted and destroyed. Did we learned about the torah and got saved or were we saved by faith thru hearing the word of Jesus Christ. HRH, Torahism, Hebrew Israelite Movement etc is just the new form of judahism and another dangerous and deceptive form of antiChrist.
Great interpretation Rabbi Solberg. Most compelling is there is no Scriptural precedent for partial obedience to GOD'S Commands. Until the new King and Priest, YESHUA'S New Covenant, GOD required Jews to obey to HIS entire law.
Notice what the apostles said: "Burden them with these 4 things". A burden was being imposed on the Gentile believers for the sake of, and out of love for, the Jewish brethern. If they were being asked to go kosher, it wouldn't have been called a burden but rather a 'lighten'.
Every Christian, whether he is a Jew or a Gentile, must keep the commandments of the Lord, because these are the commandments of the Lord. But do not keep the commandments in order to justify yourself, because justification is by grace through faith in the Lord Savior Jesus Christ and His blood shed on the cross. Justification is not by works but by faith.. But true faith produces a fruit that is good works through keeping the commandments of the Lord..
I agree, Ja Ja! Thank you. I would just add one thing: For Christians under the New Covenant, the "commandments of the Lord" do not include much of the law that He gave to Israel at Sinai through Moses. Blessings, Rob
In the sense of not offending a brother, do you practice certain Jewish traditions such as keeping Kosher for evangelizing to non-believing Jews or for getting a good rep with Hebrew Roots, even though you believe those foods are permitted for you to eat?
Sure. For example, when I attended the Messiah conference in July (which is for Messianic Jews) I spent the week eating kosher and kept the Saturday Sabbath. Shalom, Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots you know what I do not understand everybody keeps saying Jews all the Israelites were not Jews only two tribes are Jews Judah and Benjamin
There's no such thing as Jewish feasts or Jewish sabbath
And Isaiah 58 God says this is my holy day. Leviticus 23 God says these are my feasts.
@@irvinelijah8678 Hi, Irvin. Are you suggesting that when the Apostle Paul wrote that "the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God," (Rom 3:2), he was saying that the oracles of God were only given to the tribes of Benjamin and Judah? Same question for 1 Cor 12:13 "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-Jews or Greeks, slaves or free-and all were made to drink of one Spirit." Is Paul contrasting the Greeks with the tribes of Benjamin and Judah?
R.
@@TheBiblicalRoots you guys keep saying Jews that's my point the law was given to all of Israel for all Israelites are not Jews the Israelites were supposed to be the light of the world. Sermon on the Mount Matthew 5 told Israelites they were the light of the world. They failed
@@irvinelijah8678 There is terminology confusion going on in the concept of Jews and Israelis. These terms along with the Hebrews and Semites often get confused. So let's look at each one:
Semites:
Semites get their name Shem, -one of the sons of Noah. Thus when we talk about "anti-semitism", it is generally regarded as talking about hatred of the Jewish people, but by definition, it includes all Arab people, as they are all believed to be the descendent of Shem.
Hebrews:
Like Semites being the descendants of Shem, the word "Hebrew" comes from a man named Eber, who was the great-grandson of Shem, or the great-great-great-great-grandfather of Abraham. I'm not sure why the "H" got added on.
Israelites:
Israelites refer to all the descendants of Jacob, who had is name changed to Israel. Judah and Benjamin split from the northern 10 tribes after Solomon died, and thus they became known as two separate nations: Judah and Israel. When Israel was destroyed by Assyria, many of them fled to their brothers in the south (Judah). Jerusalem's population grew very notably because of this, and thus King Hezekiah built a larger wall around Jerusalem when Assyria came to destroy them too. But Assyria's army was destroyed by an angel in the night, thus saving all of Israel, for many northerners had survived under the umbrella of Judah. These northern Israelites assimilated into Judah, where they were all collectively taken away to Babylon in the Babylonian captivity.
Jews:
After the return of the Babylonian captivity, the children of Israel were allowed to return to their land and rebuild. As Jerusalem was recognized as the capitol and the Holy City, their prime target was to rebuild Jerusalem, -which was in old Judah. They weren't looking to rebuild their old divided kingdoms of Israel and Judah, but were coming together as one people. By the Roman period, the region was known primarily as Judea. So the term Jew came to refer to those who lived in Judea, not just those who were descendants of Judah.
Israeli:
In the modern day, the term Israeli often gets used to distinguish between those who are citizens of modern Israel and those who are of Jewish heritage (again, Jewish referring to all descendants of the rebuilding Judea). Jews who practice Judaism in the Diaspora are Jewish, but they are not Israeli. Muslims living as citizens can classify as Israeli (although for political reasons they probably don't), but they are not Jews. Obviously, this modern distention didn't exist when Paul wrote.
Although technically Jew refers to the descendants of Judah, Israelite refers to any descendent of Jacob, Israeli refers to modern citizens of Israel, Hebrews refers to any descendent of Eber, and Semite refers to any descendent of Shem, all these terms really kind of get mixed together. Whether you're using the term Jew, Israelite, Hebrew, or Semite, -you're probably talking about the same people group. We don't need to divide definitions unless the conversation is seeking to be precise, in which sense, we would probably use the term Judite and Benjamite instead of Jew.
I reminded Rob of Zechariah 12, which states that Egypt and all the nations will be punished for failing to observe Sukkot. I received no reply from Rob. God foresaw that some would be attempting to remove his law from the minds of many. Even Daniel mentions that there will come a time when God's law will be altered. In the Christian Bible, the last book in the Tanakh, the last chapter, and the final verses, God reminds us to remember(zakar) the Law of Moses, My servant, the statues and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel. Why is God's use of the word "remember" so many times, and why is it important? The definition of the word "remember" is to bring to mind or think of again. But it doesn't help with what God really wants us to do with what we are to remember. In Hebrew, the word "remember" is zakar, and with it many other words associated with zakar. If you look up the following words in your bibles(remember, mention, recount, male, burned), you will find that the Hebrew word "zakar" is used. So, when God says zakar, he is really telling us not to let it escape our minds, our thoughts, to burn it in our hearts, and to repeat it until it becomes second nature to us. Zakar, the Sabbath. Zakar, the Law of Moseh, Have these words become embedded in you? Remember the thief on the cross? Ask Yeshua to remember him when you come into his kingdom. Was he asking Messiah to just keep him in mind and do nothing more than keep him in mind? No, he was asking Yeshua to intervene for him. This also happened when Joseph was put in prison, and he asked the cup bearer to remember(intervene) for him. We are to intervene in any way that reflects who we are in Messiah, ready to respond, knowing that not a single word of God has been abolished nor failed.
IF Zechariah were indeed still valid then we would be sacrificing and boiling meat in pots. What honor does that render to Messiah? the one who layed down his life as the perfect sacrifice once and for all? IF the people had kept their covenant with the almighty and had not broken it then maybe it would still be in effect, however, in light of the fact we are under a NEW covenant, it would render Zechariah null and void as pertaining to the old covenant system.
@@joshkaye5303 Before I answer you, did you Zechariah 14, not 12 which I corrected on several other post with the same info?
.
The members of the Council kept the law of YHWH given through Moses, how could they/Apostles now teach the gentiles to do away with the same law and assume they/Gentiles would get salvation just like them/Jews/Apostles ?
Hi Rob. Can you please show me from scripture where the requirements of circumcision, mikvah, and offering a sacrifice at the temple were required in order for gentiles to be in covenant with God alongside Israel? I am sincerely curious. The books, chapters, and verses will be sufficient for me to look further into your argument. Thanks.
They weren't.
@@sbeasley7585 I don't believe so either. But I am still interested to hear Rob's answer. 😁
Hi Justin. Those were not requirements given in the Torah, but rather Jewish tradition in the first century. Shalom, Rob.
@@justinbutcher44 Last time I checked, Mikvah ceremonies are still encouraged, and sometimes required at most Christian churches.
@@TheBiblicalRoots
Thank you for the response. I am just going to share a few thoughts with respect to the 3 points you made. I am not meaning to be uncharitable, but I do take serious issue with many of your arguments. Please receive this in the spirit it is intended. Not as a strike at you, but a disagreement between two brothers.
//There is no biblical or historical precedent for gentile converts being given these four restrictions... the council didn’t include the 3 typical ingredients of gentile conversation to Judaism...//
To state that there is no biblical or historical precedent for gentile converts being given for these four restrictions is silly. This was a specific situation with a specific people, many of which were steeped in paganism and unfamiliar with the faith. We must consider and recognize that these people still had elements of spiritual adultery in their lives that needed to be rooted out for both fellowship and further growth. This is no different than how many churches approach discipleship today. We would never expect a new convert in our faith to start out their walk-in perfect understanding or obedience, but they would definitively root out key issues that might be stumblingly blocks to them or others within the body. Any other position ignores the blatant elephant in the room...
The elephant being context. We can see from Acts 15:1, 15:5, and 15:10 that the issue had to deal with religious traditions being imposed on the new converts. These traditions were never in line with Torah with respect to gentile conversion even in the Old Testament.
The fact that your first point references the "3 typical ingredients of gentile conversion in Judaism" misses the point and frames the argument in such a way to make your audience believe that those who practice Torah also affirm Judaic traditions as a necessity to the faith. Many, if not most of us do not affirm this any more than you would. I see no reason why you would believe that this is a valid point given the actual context surrounding Acts 15. That is, unless you are conflating Jewish tradition with what the Torah teaches?
There is a clear distinction between Judaism and the faith our Savior taught. I think that we should both be able to agree that the disciples would never have instituted the "3 ingredients" you stated because they were not scriptural in either the Old or New Testament periods.
What they did do, is set the new gentile converts in a positive direction by using instructions found in the Torah which would have been of first importance to new believers coming out of paganism.
//There is no biblical precedent for gradual obedience//
3 witnesses and their surrounding passages are all asking you to hold their 🍺. 😁
1 Corinthians 3:2
Hebrews 5:13
1 Peter 2:2
I am happy to break down each passage and their surrounding contexts if needed. But I think they all disprove your belief that there was not an expectation of gradual obedience to the Torah, even if that obedience was only with respect to the "moral law." Your view on this matter really makes me wonder, as a Christian how do you define discipleship if it is not a process of learning how to walk in accordance to our Savior, which would include elements of obedience and a desire to refrain from what you recognize as sin?
//There is no scriptural evidence where gentile Christians were ever expected to or ever did keep the entire law of Moses.//
Brother, respectfully, this is begging the question. We could frame this the same way from our perspective and say that "there is no scriptural evidence where gentile Christians were not expected to keep the entire law of Moses." I don't believe that you would find that argument any more compelling than we do. It just come off as rhetoric. Tactical yes, but ultimately lacking in substance.
In the spirit if charity, I will throw you a point on this one because while I do believe that it is inferred in scripture that gentiles coming into faith would eventually learn and practice the entire Torah, it is not stated clearly for those of us in the present day since we were not the intended audience.
I do believe that there are many passages that show that Gentiles were practicing elements of the Torah that you would consider permitted. I believe that these passages, along with the covenant relationship and its expectations to gentiles given in the Old Testament is enough evidence to confirm our position.
Lastly, though not directly related to the three points in my response. You stated that “the 4 things given were relevant to the new believers as guidelines for peace and unity with their new brothers in the faith.” The first two, idolatry and fornication are not considered by any Church I have attended, conservative or otherwise to be mere guidelines for unity. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 has strong words towards these types of sins, and it seems that within the framework of your interpretation that you downplay their serious nature where the writers within the Bible did not. Am I saying that we can’t make mistakes? Absolutely not! But I would never argue for a second that such things were mere guidelines for new believers to get along with others within a congregation of Christians. Any Christian church that my family and I walked into that taught this way, would be placed on my “do not attend list” immediately whether I practiced Torah or not.
Hebrew Roots movement doesn't want the "righteousness of Christ,” they want to be “as righteous as Christ.” They truly believe they can keep the Law perfectly. What folly (Acts 15:10). No man could ever do what Jesus did, that's why He had to come and save us from our sin. And, BTW, Jesus followed the "spirit of the law", that's why the Pharisees constantly condemned Him over washings, breaking the Sabbath, eating with sinners, etc. He was transitioning the Disciples to stop following the "letter of the law, and teaching them the New Covenant "spirit of the law" or "The Way" of being truly obedient to God.
(Rom 3:19) Now we know that _what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law:_ that every mouth may be stopped, and *all the world may become guilty before God.*
(Rom 3:20) Therefore *by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:* _for by the law is the knowledge of sin._
(Rom 3:21) *But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,* _being witnessed by the law and the prophets;_
(Rom 3:22) _Even the righteousness of God_ *which is by faith of Jesus Christ* unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(Rom 3:30) _Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision_ *through faith.*
(Rom 3:31) _Do we then make void the law through faith?_ God forbid: *yea, we establish the law.*
(Rev 5:3) And *_no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon._*
(Rev 5:4) And I wept much, because *_no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon._*
It's interesting that you would first say there is not precedent for the four instructions to new Gentile converts, then later in the same teaching you mention your opinion that these 4 instructions are rooted in Leviticus 17 and 18, where Moses gave instruction to both Jews and Gentiles on similar things, while emphasizing the need for those being instructed to walk in the statutes and ordinances of God. And it seems like that is the point in Leviticus where Moses begins to dive into the hard boundaries and interactive prohibitions for the people. Prior to that, Leviticus largely seems to address thing that are managed and overseen by the Levitical priesthood, but after that, the law continues to be given. That does seem like a parallel and precedent for something very much like the Torahism interpretation that you gave.
I have a slightly different idea to reading this passage. Considering the very reasons given by Paul for why we have the OT Scriptures,
"Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." - 1 Corinthians 10:11
"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." Romans 15:4
The Old Testament is for our admonition, to warn us, and for our learning, through the examples contained within. At this time, the OT was the only collated Scripture around, and therefore in order to learn about the God they now worship, it would make sense that they would go to the few sources of Scripture they have, being the local synagogue of whatever city they happen to be located in.
Now in the context of the chapter being about the laws,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." - Matthew 5:17-18
Jesus came and fulfilled the law. By learning the law/Torah/Moses, the Gentile believers learn about the laws that were fulfilled, ie the Sabbath today is fulfilled because Jesus is the Church's rest and the various dietary restrictions have been fulfilled because Christians are sanctified through Christ, Christ is our Passover, etc.
"For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day." - Acts 15:21
Because they can learn all about the law/Torah/Moses at the synagogue, they can learn about the law over time. Not to keep the law, but to better understand the fullness of Christ.
"For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." - Acts 15:28-29
It would have been so easy to tell them to be circumcised and not eat unclean animals etc, yet they did not. And the apostles agreed no greater burden than these necessary things. To think the Gentile believers were all keeping the Sabbath etc, is truly a leap of imagination.
Amen ❤️
Professor Solberg, perhaps you’ve already mentioned this, but it’s my understanding that two of the four restrictions given to the Gentle Believers are not even actual Torah commands. If so, that would totally destroy the “starter pack” theory.
If you have a bible, you could always look them up. If you have access to the internet, Blue letter Bible is also a great resource.
Things polluted by idols (Ex. 20:4; Lev. 19:4, 26:1)
Sexual immorality (Ex. 20:14; 22:19; Lev. 18, and others)
The last two sort of go together. We refrain from things strangled, because that means their blood was not properly drained, and Torah commands us to drain the blood and not eat it (Gen. 9:4; Lev. 17:10-11).
You know something I thought of while listening to this… verse 10 Peter calls the law a yoke and verse 19 James calls it trouble or harass or annoy the Gentiles… torahism whole claim is the law wasn’t the curse or to be under it was the sin… James and Peter call it a yoke and harassment 😳 hmmm 🤔
Also in vs. 28 they declare to "lay no greater burden".... The whole context of the council uses language of weight/burden/trouble in reference to the whole law. Doesn't really make sense to use that language only to have the expectation that later they'll pick the rest up because they are going to synagogue. After all, why would they go to synagogue and worship alongside those who deny Christ?
" ... he (Moses) is read aloud in the synagogues every Sabbath." (Acts 15:21, NET)
"For in the first place, when you come together as a church *in jewish synagogue belonging to persons who does not believe in Jesus Christ* (?)... "
"For in the first place, when you come together as a church I hear there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it." (I Corinthians 11:18, NET)
"not abandoning our own meetings, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging each other, and even more so because you see the day drawing near." (Hebrews 10:25, NET)
In apostles time, new covenant time, non-ethnic jew believer of Jesus Christ, does have no command or even exhortation from apostles to go synagogue every sabbath to listen unbelievers proclaiming Moses (and somehow trying to lead away from believing in Lord Jesus Christ).
Good Video.
I would add that 100% (not 99%) of every command in the NC has an actual historical person physical doing those commands.
Examples:
Baptism; Lords Supper; Prayer; Singing, Confessing etc etc
All have command and examples or vice versa
If Acts 15:21 is an historical example then there must be a NC to keep the Torah.
v21 when James talks about Moses being read everywhere on Sabbath was his judgement on the matter in discussion with the Jerusalem Council. I think the rest of the chapter should be included in this discussion. An observation can be made there as well. The letter that the Jerusalem Church sends out to the Gentile believers makes no mention of Moses at all. Simply saying that it seemed good through them AND the Holy Spirit to not burden beyond the *essentials* the greek word here is epanagkes(Strong's G1876) which means necessary. So the text could also be read as "not burden beyond what is necessary"
As a note: I see a lot of beauty in the OT law observance. I myself observe feast days and here lately do my best to observe Sabbath as I see value in these things. I still hold to the belief Permitted not Required.
You can't keep Sabbath or the feasts without a temple. Therefore, you are in sin. Repent and believe what Jesus taught.
@@sbeasley7585 wow you took 3 sentences that I said without any additional info and instantly passed judgement. Nice.
Not that I need to explain myself to a random person on the internet, but here it goes. When I say I “observe Sabbath” I mean I’m more intentional with taking one day a week for rest. There’s principles in the Bible we can learn from.
When I say I observe feasts, I mean I study them and how Christ fulfilled them. I get with believers around the time of Passover and we take time to remember the sacrifice Jesus made for us.
We’ll have to just be in disagreement if you think these two things are sins.
We’ll said, Zakklock. Thank you! -Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots Rob, you started your debate with Tovia by saying that Yeshua taught Torah, and anyone who teaches against the Law of Moses should be considered a false prophet. Should we all consider you a false prophet because you constantly oppose the Law of Moses, according to your own words? 1) If you believe that the Law of Moseh is "permissable but not required", why does the endtime prophecy by Zechariah in Chapter 12 mention that Egypt and all the nations who do not observe Sukkot will be punished? 2) Why will ten men from all nations (Gentiles) grasp a Jew's tzitzits and say, "Let us go with you, for we heard that God is with you." 3) Isaiah 2:2-3, in the last days, verse 3 says, and many people will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of YeHoVaH, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us concerning His ways and that we may walk in His paths; for the Law will go forth from Zion, and the word of YeHoVah from Jerusalem." Why go to the mountain to learn the Law, if you believe it is only permissable but not required? Do you despise the God of the Tanakh now that you have replaced Him on the throne with Jesus? Looking forward to you reply
Rob,
I understand your point but to really give it credence, you need to address several observations:
1. You say that there are no examples of Torah pursuance among gentiles in all of the NT. Yet, I propose that Acts 15:21 exactly represents the starting point for Torah pursuance by gentiles because in the very next chapter of Acts we have Paul circumcising a gentile, Timotheus, exemplifying the expected “follow-through”. Otherwise, this would be quite the coincidence juxtaposed right adjacent to the Acts passage promoting the “four” (actually five, counting Sabbath) initial things to be observed by newbie gentiles.
2. If the gentiles aren’t supposed to be Torah pursuant, why does Paul commend: “Therefore let us keep the (Passover) feast” in 1 Cor 5:6-8?
3. Why does the Greek use the term “kainos” (renewed) rather than “neos” (new) in better than 90% of the occurrences relating to the “New” Covenant? If the intent was to “create” a totally “new” relationship with God, “neos” would have removed all doubt. The few occurrences of “neos”, I believe, are in reference to newbie gentile believers. To these, it WAS a brand-new relationship. To the Jew, however, it was “kainos” because they have seen this before.
4. What does circumcision of the heart mean? Though it is in the negative sense, Acts 7:51-53 makes it plain that the term means to have God’s laws (Torah) written on our hearts:
51 Ye stiffnecked and UNCIRCUMCISED IN HEART and ears, ye do always RESIST THE HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the (OT) PROPHETS have not your FATHERS persecuted? and they have slain THEM which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 WHO have RECEIVED THE LAW by the disposition of angels, and HAVE NOT KEPT IT.
If UNCIRCUMCISON OF THE HEART is equated to NOT keeping the law, then the phrase, CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, must mean the inverse…pursuing Torah. Notice also that the Holy Spirit was active in OT times to write God’s Commandments on the hearts of the Israelites and grafted in gentiles like Caleb:
24 But my servant Caleb (a Kenezite / gentile), because he had ANOTHER SPIRIT with him, and hath FOLLOWED ME FULLY, him will I BRING INTO THE LAND whereinto he went; and HIS SEED SHALL POSSESS IT. (Num 14:24)
5. I have yet to hear your explanation for Ezekiel 43 - 48 which describes the future Millennial Kingdom of Messiah Yeshua during which, God’s Torah will be enforced throughout the world, but especially in Jerusalem where all the elements of Torah will be practiced including animal sacrifices.
There’s much more but this should be sufficient for present discussion.
Shalom
Thanks, Henry!
1. In Acts 16 Paul didn’t circumcise Timothy as an example of circumcision being required of all Gentiles. He “circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a Greek” (Acts 16:3). It was so that his uncircumcision did not become a stumbling block for the Jews they were going to share the Gospel with. As Paul wrote in 1 Cor 9:20, “To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.”
1b. Why did you include keeping the Sabbath as a fifth requirement of the Jerusalem Council? Sabbath keeping is nowhere required of Gentiles by the Council. It wasn’t even mentioned in the letter that they wrote to the Gentile churches.
2. It’s not my position that “gentiles aren’t supposed to be Torah pursuant.” Rather that Gentiles followers of Jesus are _permitted but not required_ to keep the Law of Moses.
3. The Greek word καινός (kainos) means new. (See: biblehub.com/greek/2537.htm)
4. The idea of “circumcision of the heart” as found in Rom 2:29 refers to having a pure heart, set apart for God. Paul writes, “A Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter.” He's talking about the application of the Mosaic Law to Christians. He is saying that Mosaic circumcision is an outward sign of being set apart to God, but if our hearts are sinful, then physical circumcision does no good. In other words, a circumcised body and a sinful heart are at odds with each other. Paul is showing that, under the New Covenant, God has relocated circumcision from external rites to the condition of the heart. He was drawing from Deuteronomy 30 where God used the same metaphor to relate His desire for a holy people: “And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live” (Deut 30:6). It's about our inward setapartness.
Blessings,
Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots You teach the opposite of Scripture.... You said the Pharisees meticulously obeyed every Mosiac law daily? FALSE!! Jesus said this about them.... Mark 7:13 “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.”
@@TheBiblicalRoots
Rob,
In rebuttal - Your words:
1. In Acts 16 Paul didn’t circumcise Timothy as an example of circumcision being required of all Gentiles. He “circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a Greek” (Acts 16:3). It was so that his uncircumcision did not become a stumbling block for the Jews they were going to share the Gospel with. As Paul wrote in 1 Cor 9:20, “To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.”
My reply:
Let’s see now. Which makes better sense?
It’s your position that Jews and gentiles no longer need to keep the Law but may do so at their own discretion, though Jews may be particularly drawn to Torah pursuance due to cultural identity, correct? So, how would Paul explain the Gospel and introduce Timotheus (Timothy) to Jewish congregations?
“Shalom…I’m here to tell you that Yeshua is your long awaited Mashiach ben Yoseif (the suffering Messiah after the pattern of Joseph in Genesis) and by His sacrifice you are cleansed of all your sins and because He has taken upon Himself all your transgressions there is no longer a need to keep the Law. Oh, and by the way, this is Timotheus, a gentile, whom I have circumcised (according to the now defunct Torah) so you won’t be offended.”
Really?
From the Hebrew Roots perspective, rather, Timotheus was probably already very familiar with the synagogue ritual and proselyte process because his mother was Jewish. He was a quick study, already observing much more than the four things (five things with Sabbath, coming up). He was ready and willing to be circumcised but the Jews in authority would not allow it because he was considered a gentile…his father was a Greek…and Jewishness according to Scripture is patrilineal…not matrilineal according to present day Oral Law. But because Timotheus demonstrated that he was circumcised of the heart, following Torah (Acts 7:51-53) Paul took and circumcised him. He was an example of a gentile being grafted into Israel…and as we know, Israel is to keep the Commandments of God “forever”, “in perpetuity”, ‘throughout your generations”.
Of course, this is a very dangerous explanation if your position is that Torah has been abrogated and so, normative Christianity has come up with this rather lame excuse…. sorry, that’s just the way I see it.
Now for 1 Corinthians 9 -
19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them.
20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those UNDER THE LAW I became as one UNDER THE LAW (though NOT being myself UNDER THE LAW) that I might win those UNDER THE LAW.
Around the time of the Maccabees, approximately 160 BC, the worship of God in Israel began to evolve into what would eventually become Judaism by incorporating various “commandments of men” so that the term “Jews” typically refers to the religious Jews who were following the “traditions of the elders or fathers” and not Torah law. So, Paul, in verse 20, is addressing the situation, stating that he approaches these men as one who knows Oral Law…but does NOT practice Oral Law…in order to win these away from Oral Law (the corruption of the Torah) and to Messiah Yeshua and pursuit of actual Torah.
21 To those OUTSIDE THE LAW I became as one OUTSIDE THE LAW (NOT being OUTSIDE THE LAW OF GOD but UNDER THE LAW OF CHRIST) that I might win those OUTSIDE THE LAW. (1 Cor 9:19-21)
To those outside the Law (gentiles), Paul finds a way to appeal to them like in Acts 17 at Mars Hill where he turns their attention to the “Unknown God” …. but not by breaking God’s Commandments (NOT being OUTSIDE THE LAW OF GOD) which, as I have shown before, is the same as the LAW OF CHRIST. Let’s revisit that:
15 If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. (John 14:15)
10 If ye KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have KEPT MY FATHER’S COMMANDMENTS, and abide in his love. (John 15:10)
19 Did not Moses give you the LAW, and yet NONE OF YOU KEEPETH THE LAW? Why go ye about to KILL ME? (John 7:19)
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to KILL ME, because MY WORD HATH NO PLACE IN YOU. (John 8:37)
Seems pretty straight forward to me that Messiah Yeshua’s Word is the same as God’s Law (Torah).
More to follow.
Shalom
@@TheBiblicalRoots
Rob,
In rebuttal - Your words:
1b. Why did you include keeping the Sabbath as a fifth requirement of the Jerusalem Council? Sabbath keeping is nowhere required of Gentiles by the Council. It wasn’t even mentioned in the letter that they wrote to the Gentile churches.
My reply:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from 1) pollutions of idols, and from 2) fornication, and from 3) things strangled, and from 4) blood.
21 For (Because) Moses (euphemism for Torah) of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY 5) SABBATH DAY. (Act 15:20,21)
The “four things” of Acts 15:21 are the minimum requirements for newbie, gentile believers to start with that would not render the Jews unclean while allowing the gentiles to study and become proficient in Torah on the SABBATH day.
Sabbath was a “given”. All people in surrounding countries understood that the Jews kept the Sabbath as a holy day unto God.
“Nay, further, the multitude of mankind itself have had a GREAT INCLINATION OF A LONG TIME to follow our religious observances; for there is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither OUR CUSTOM OF RESTING ON THE SEVENTH DAY HATH NOT COME, and by which our fasts and lighting up lamps, and many of our prohibitions as to our food, are not observed;” - Flavius Josephus, Against Apion
For the newbie believers to come study the Torah, they had to attend when the Jews met to worship God. This is exactly what we see with several examples in Acts of gentiles worshipping God with the Jews on Sabbath. In fact, I challenge you to produce any Scriptural reference to believers meeting on Sunday. We don’t even encounter gentile believers objecting to Sabbath worship in Scripture.
Sunday worship initiated with Hadrian’s crushing of the second Jewish revolt (Bar- Kokhba) 132-135CE due to prohibition of the Jewish religion and Sabbath-keeping in particular. Jerusalem became a Roman colony from which Jews and Jewish Christians were excluded.
A whole body of “Adversos Judaeos” (“Against all Jews”) literature began to appear at the time. Following the Roman lead, Christians developed a “Christian” theology of separation from and contempt toward the Jews and anything Jewish due to resentment over the Bar-Kokhba Revolt and resulting persecution of Jews. Characteristic Jewish “customs” such as circumcision and Sabbath keeping were castigated. The net result was to throw out the baby (Torah) with the bathwater (Judaism).
Note:
Change from Sabbath to Sunday occurred after 135AD
No record of the change in Scripture
Messiah never broke the Sabbath but taught PROPER OBSERVANCE of the Sabbath (Luke 4:16, 13:16; Matt 12:3-5, 7, 8; Mark 3:4).
There already exists a day to commemorate Messiah’s resurrection - First Fruits
There exists no countermand to the Fourth Commandment and the Sunday resurrection is in dispute, anyway.
More to come.
Shalom
@@TheBiblicalRoots
Rob,
In rebuttal - Your words:
2. It’s not my position that “gentiles aren’t supposed to be Torah pursuant.” Rather that Gentiles followers of Jesus are permitted but not required to keep the Law of Moses.
My reply:
Whether Jew or gentile, we’re not to sin, correct? But what is sin? Is a Jew held to a higher standard of conduct than a gentile? ... or, are we all held to the same standard? What is that standard? If you say, correctly, Messiah Yeshua is our standard…I agree. But He, as our example, kept the Torah perfectly, observing the Feasts and all of Torah. So, let’s look at that ole saw for sin, 1 John 3:4 -
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (1 John 3:4)
Your position is that “transgression of the law” (Greek, anomia) in this verse doesn’t refer to breaking Torah, but generally “evil”. But as I have demonstrated in other rebuttals to your videos, it’s the same word used in the same context in the Greek Septuagint to mean exactly that…that is failure to keep God’s Commandments, the Torah. As I stated before, He kept the Torah perfectly to be the perfect Lamb of God. The very next verse in 1 John 3 states this very thing and underscores the validity of my argument that transgression of the law specifically means breaking Torah.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin (Torahlessness). (1 John 3:5)
The correct context for 1 Cor 5:6-8, then, is KEEPING the Passover Feast WITH THE RIGHT HEART … specifically admonishing the congregation for allowing a member to commit fornication, one of the big “5” in Acts 15. They are keeping the Passover because it’s a Commandment to be observed “forever”, “throughout your generations”, “in perpetuity” by all Israel…and gentile believers are grafted into Israel (Rom 11 / Eph 2) and partake of all the covenantS (plural) (Eph 2:12) and responsibilities (Torah pursuance).
More to follow.
Shalom
🙏
To me is obvious it deals with the preaching from the Bible and the fact the Jews were the only ones who had it in having the Tanakh which was read on the Sabbath and Jewish Festivals etc. seeing how it was extremely expensive to own scripture in the days before the printing press when everything had to be hand copied, and the writing materials were also very expensive, especially vellum. But the restrictions due point to something important, they highlight the significance of blood, and that pertains to Christ his sacrifice and later to the eucharist..
7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
@ Rob, how can this turn to a burned ?
Leviticus 25.44-46 is perfect?
Yuuuup. Not comfortable or politically correct. But perfect. The Father's idea of correct slavery looks nothing like what most would think of when they think of slavery. (Ex.21:2, 20, 26)
We are to consider ourselves slaves to Christ. (Eph. 6:6: Phl 1:1)
Does He have the right to do with us as He pleases? Yes, because He is our master. Are we expected to serve Him? Yes, because He purchased us. Does He love and take care of us? Yes. This is HIS idea of slavery. It is perfect.
Just one problem with the Christian interpretation. In Rev 2 there's is clearly an issue with the eating polluted meat and fornication not because it might offend Jews but rather it offends Yah himself as this is what Christ is saying to his assembly. Paul mentions upholding the law and rather than rebuking James and the others he took the vow to prove to other BELIEVING jews that he was not doing as was rumored of him. Also, if we look at polluted meat as not to offend then how to we reconcile the fornication? We're the gentiles not to fonicate in order not to offend believing Jews? I believe Revelations 2 gives better insight into this issue.
Is this like think you're reading Torah without even reading Torah?
I just want to point out that murder is absent from this list & to make the case that these are the only restrictions from the law to be carried over is absurd. It seems likely that the restrictions had to do heavily with what the Gentiles were exposed to at the time with regards to pagan worship. Also, the law is assumed as authoritative to NT writers & not undermined. The sections that are changed are explicitly transposed to the heavens. You would benefit from the works of R.J. Rushdoony, a theonomist, to gain some insight into the distinction of the laws & how they are treated.
From my experience listening to Hebrew roots movement people… They purposely ignore all of Paul’s writings. They don’t like Paul and they make that known. They have a seriously critical view of Paul.
In my considered opinion, if we assume that by gentiles believers breaking the four restrictions, they would offend Jewish believers, will they not offend the same Jews by eating pork, by breaking Sabbath, and in general by breaking the law of Moses !
Acts 15:21 suggest that the council knew that all believers attend Sabbath for instructions from the Torah. Sunday is never mentioned as having replaced the day.
In Acts 21:21 Paul is accused of asking Jews not to Circumcised their children and abandoned Moses.
It makes a lot of sense that Gentiles believers are babes in the word hence should be given time to learn the Torah with time.
To reason that to break the four laws would offend the Jews doesn't make sense.
I am a Kenyan in the village. Our children go to school by foot. By 8:00am all children are supposed to be in school but this law does not as apply in full to those in pre-unit/kindergarten//nursery.
WHY
Because they are still very young to run to school but will soon run
It is not because they would offend the elder children.
This is exactly the same scenario with the gentiles believers, they would learn if they continue attending Sabbath service.
Good question
reckon there’s also something to the whole _inclusion_ of the Gentiles, as conversion and becoming a Jew was already an option Gentiles had and have in Judaism (Akiva *or his father being a prominent example). so if conversion was already on the table, then inclusion of the Gentiles wouldn’t be a big deal like it was/is if it merely meant conversion. instead, Christianity is a unity of multiplicity and inclusion of the Gentiles means the Gentiles are and remain included as Gentiles.
Great point. Thanks!
@@TheBiblicalRoots Rob, you started your debate with Tovia by saying that Yeshua taught Torah, and anyone who teaches against the Law of Moses should be considered a false prophet. Should we all consider you a false prophet because you constantly oppose the Law of Moses, according to your own words? 1) If you believe that the Law of Moseh is "permissable but not required", why does the endtime prophecy by Zechariah in Chapter 12 mention that Egypt and all the nations who do not observe Sukkot will be punished? 2) Why will ten men from all nations (Gentiles) grasp a Jew's tzitzits and say, "Let us go with you, for we heard that God is with you." 3) Isaiah 2:2-3, in the last days, verse 3 says, and many people will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of YeHoVaH, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us concerning His ways and that we may walk in His paths; for the Law will go forth from Zion, and the word of YeHoVah from Jerusalem." Why go to the mountain to learn the Law, if you believe it is only permissable but not required? Do you despise the God of the Tanakh now that you have replaced Him on the throne with Jesus? Looking forward to you reply
What I need you to explain to me if the law of Moses is done away with and gentiles don't have to keep it why would they tell the gentiles to keep four laws straight out of the law of Moses. The Bible says one law One Faith one God one nation one body it never says two different faiths two different bodies I would love to have a conversation with you
Even Jesus said the law is not "done away with". It is still there to show us our sin. But when we put our faith in Christ we are no longer under the law. We are under grace.
@@sbeasley7585 the law Paul is talking about is Romans 6:23 and Ezekiel 18:4 we're not under the wages and sin is death. Yes we are under grace but nobody seems to read Romans 6:15 do we sin that now we're under grace. Please explain Romans 6:18 we are slaves to righteousness. What is righteousness Psalms 119 172 all thy commandments are righteousness. Sin is unrighteousness first john 5 17 why do we make this so hard
@@irvinelijah8678 Correct. The law of Christ is not the law of Moses. God said to listen to Jesus. Jesus taught about the kingdom of God and how to enter in. He did not teach Moses. Jesus is greater than Moses therefore his teachings are greater.
We keep the spirit of the law as Jesus taught. For instance, we stop murdering people by calling them fool. We stop committing adultery by looking upon others with lust.
We love our enemies. These things are the law of Christ. Moses never said such things.
@@sbeasley7585 it's the same law only magnified Isaiah 42:21. The law of Christ is the law of Moses who gave Moses the law of Moses Jesus Christ the god of the Old testament who wrote and spoke to ten commandments Jesus Christ the god of the Old testament. Please read 1st Corinthians chapter 10 1 through 5. Moses didn't just make up the law he got it directly from God. 44 remember my servant Moses the law
@@sbeasley7585 Malachi 4:4 remember the law of Moses. My faultf God I'm schizophrenic now the New testament I want you to forget it. Malachi 3 6 I change not Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today or forever Psalms 89:34 I will not alter anything that's going out of my mouth or my covenant
Deception by misrepresentation. The council was not discussing whether or not we should be circumcised, but if circumcision is what saves someone. The "starter pack" idea is very scriptural. Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little. Some people have need to return to the milk of scripture. Teach your children when you lay down, when you rise up, and as you walk by the way. Do you believe that God would expect anyone to read, learn, and understand the whole Word in one sitting? If a man is a drunkard, and comes to Christ; you would say stay away from the bars. You wouldn't tell him not to dig a hole unless he puts up safety railing. Those four things are the pressing issues for those people at that time. Did you expect the council to write down every law in their letter? They didn't have to because the people they were writing to were already hearing Moses in the Synagogues. Circumcision doesn't save you. Keeping God's laws doesn't save you. Only the blood of Christ saves. Christ's blood cleanses us, but you are advocating rebellion. Dogs return to their vomit, and pigs return to the mud after being washed. It's not a starter pack as in do this first, but the other sins are ok. It's a starter pack in the sense of a man's heart being changed, and he has to begin somewhere. Once the truth is known, what will a man whose heart is changed do with that truth? Two choices. Obedience or rebellion. You are searching high and low for some excuse. You are reading doctrines of men hoping that they can help you explain the truth away. Since you like parables, what happens after being grafted into the tree? Does it bear fruit?
Psalms 1:1-6
[1]Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
[2]But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
[3]And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
[4]The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
[5]Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
[6]For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
You keep neglecting to tell what Acts 15 is actually discussing.
Acts 15:1
[1]And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, (Ye Cannot Be Saved).
The answer is:
Acts 15:11
[11]But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
The yoke of their fathers was not Torah. It was doctrines and dogmas of men. This is what Jesus railed against. The Pharisees we're doing what was right in their own eyes. The people you are railing against are trying to do what is right in the sight of God. Not to be saved, but because we love Him.
Acts 5:29-33
[29]Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
[30]The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
[31]Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
[32]And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
[33]When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
Verse 32 will cut many people to the heart. It's time to wake up, brother. The shofar is going to be blown soon.
Thanks! You said, "Those four things are the pressing issues for those people at that time. Did you expect the council to write down every law in their letter?" I agree with you that we don't expect they would write down every law. But the question being discussed was how much of the Jewish law were the Gentile believers expected to adopt. And the Council decided to give them "no greater burden" than the four restrictions.
Shalom, Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots Sure, but you are taking guidance as a comprehensive list of "only these four, nothing more." Verse 21 was the council reasoning among themselves that those gentiles were already in the process of learning the laws. Couple this with what Jesus says:
Matthew 23:1-4
[1]Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
[2]Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
[3]All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
[4]For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
When sitting in Moses' seat, they read directly from scripture. Jesus said observe and do. The Pharisees and scribes subverted God's laws with laws of their own. I do not understand why you are trying so hard to make people disobedient over a handful of commands that God Himself spoke. None of His laws were trivial, or even difficult except by the standards of men. Men want to do what is right in their own eyes, but God laid out two choices. Love Him, and choose obedience unto everlasting life; or rebel against Him, and choose sin unto death. Grace is for those who stumble on the narrow path, not those who take the broad way. Forgiveness is for those who have strayed, but are returning to that narrow way. God's commands are a lamp to light the way. Disobedience is rejection, brother. What sin do we love more than we love God? Eating abominable things? Doing our own pleasure on the Sabbath? Animal sacrifice isn't expected by God at this time, because we would be breaking His commands in trying to keep them our own way. What other commands do you reject? Tzitzit? What else? There aren't many that people try to find ways around. You keep saying that these things were permitted, but not required. Brother, they were commanded. If you can work around that, then there is no amount of scripture or reasoning that will change your mind.
Slightly unrelated: There are three passages that I would like you to consider very carefully. Follow them as far as you can. The first is: Go and learn what mercy not sacrifice means. Don't just read the passage and assume that it's self evident.
Matthew 9:10-13
[10]And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
[11]And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
[12]But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
[13]But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Second is: What Bread? What Life? What Word? Where was it written, and what does it say there? This is everywhere in Scripture, but oftentimes focused on individual aspects.
Matthew 4:3-4
[3]And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[4]But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Third is: Can you be Holy, but not Righteous? Can you be Righteous, but not Holy? What do those words mean? Obedient children, former lusts? What does "conversation" mean? Where was this written "be Holy, for I am Holy"?
1 Peter 1:13-16
[13]Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
[14]As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
[15]But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
[16]Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Hebrew Roots is just like any denomination. Some people are secretly rebellious while professing love. God judges hearts, and knows true intentions.
Excellent explanation that I should allow a group of sinful men to transgress the declarations of the Most High. Cancel the law except the tithes!
Hi, RC! I'm not sure what your comment is related to, but it's clearly not this video. I don't condone anyone transgressing the commands of Yahweh that apply to them.
R.
@@TheBiblicalRoots it also applies to you. What do you mean one rule applies to them and does not apply to you? The arrogance if sinful man thinks he is elohim. The same condition apply, Obey Me and I will be your Elohim and you will be my people. If you don't obey then you are not Yah's, so stop leading others to their destruction just for views and the income you earn from foolishness.
@@rc-vd8vm Not every command that God has given applies to every person at all times. Some of His commands were only given to certain people (ex. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses), or for certain times (ex. building an ark, gathering manna) and we're each only expected to keep the commands of God that apply to us. Even within the Law of Moses, some commands apply only to priests, some apply only to women, and so on. And the ceremonial Mosaic commands do not apply to Christians today. (ex. Repeated blood sacrifices for sin are no longer required.) R.
3:45 - "those four things didn't include circumcision, or keeping the Sabbath, or eating kosher, or keeping the feasts,"...or honoring your parents, or refraining from adultery, beastiality, homosexuality, or stealing....just those four things...right?
Doesn't matter what they were already familiar with (11:28). There either were just those four restrictions, or it was not just four. You can't have it both ways.
13:46 speaking of no support of Scripture, there's no Biblical reason to assume that a commandment -- or, in this case, several commandments -- is no longer relevant, solely on the basis that it isn't repeated in the New Testament.
Did I just miss it, or did you never give a more reasonable explanation for the mention of Moses in Acts 15:21? Why not just say the Gentiles were coming in amongst Jews? Why be so specific as "the Law of Moses", "read in synagogue"? If the assumption was that Gentiles we're going to maintain their Gentile identity separate from their Jewish brothers, what do they care that Torah is read in synagogue on the Sabbath? They weren't ever going to be there.
On the contrary, it would've been much more logical to leave the Moses comment out, since the Gentile believers would have more fellowship with the Jews every other day of the week, NOT in synagogue.
Respectfully, sir, this explanation doesn't fit the text.
So, I ask again Rob, are gentiles believers in Yeshua and God told not to murder, steal, idol worship, covet etc.? Are you not commanded to observe more than just Acts 15 four restrictions? Simple yes or no? If no, then you are not being consistent. If yes, then you admit that, at the very least, HRM is correct in this being a start pack for fellowship which they would later come to learn more about the history of Moses and Gospel written by the Prophets(John 1:45) This means, if all humans are called to observe the Big Ten then the 4 restriction in Acts leads up to the big Ten they would then learn the history of in Synagogue on Shabbat(they would be attending) They then would learn about the 4th command(Keep the shabbat) and at the least keep the Big Ten.
Second, if one told you at a church gathering of a potluck, "This food was slaughtered and sacrificed to an Idol this morning." Would you continue to eat it? Yes or no. Why or why not?
Yes to your first question. But the conclusion you want to draw from that answer is not accurate. Morality did not begin with the Law of Moses. Murder, stealing, wickedness, adultery, greed, etc. were wrong long before Sinai. They’ve been wrong since the beginning. And that’s because man was created in God’s image and we have objective morality “baked into“ our humanness. What _did_ begin at Sinai were the laws about the weekly Shabbat, kosher food, feasts, etc. Those laws were given only to Israel to set her apart as a nation for God.
And on your 2nd question, this would be my guide in how to respond: “Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.” If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience- I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.” (1 Cor 10:25-31)
Blessings, Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots Rob, you are arguing your points with me as though I am like other TO people. You have known from the beginning this isnt the case with me. As for things being wrong from the beginning, yes. There is a reason for that though. Torah is a heavenly thing and that is why Moses seen something to then copy from the heavenly. "Why then the law?" It was added because of transgressions..." Ergo, sin existed before Torah, yes. However, Torah doesnt abolish the need to understand that God gave the Torah to guide humanity.(Deut 4:6) Why? Israel was called to be a light to the nations(failed) but that was the intent to try and restore the world back to God through Messiah. To share Torah with the world as Isaiah 42 clearly says the Messiah would do and no it isnt a different law. This is why they reference back to Leviticus in Acts 15. This is not a question of Salvation, Rob. I have never claimed, nor will I, that you are not saved bc you eat pork. I oppose this in my own camp HARD. I am simply saying you are not being consistent in your exegesis. Acts 15 is a starter pack, then the big ten... just as Jesus himself said in Matthew 19:16-28 etc. THAT simply cannot be denied. You must do as Christ says in many places in the NT.. you simply MUST if you are able.
As for the 2nd question, you never answered it. I figured you would just reference scripture, but not plainly tell people you would eat it, therefore, contradict what Paul clearly says about weak believers standing by and also contradict Acts 15. So, it's not us that has our work cut out for us. All im asking for is consistent answers, Rob.
1 Cor 8 "
*Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall."*
Acts 15 "Instead, we should write and tell them to *abstain from food polluted by idols*, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood. 21For Moses has been proclaimed in every city from ancient times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
You either see a contradiction or you exegesis properly to understand what is being stated. And what is being stated is this, WEAK new believers are not ready yet to understand the depth of Torah, history, God, Hebrews etc... START HERE: Then progress as you learn and teach them in the shul every shabbat which means they would be there on Saturday, not Sunday...and there you have it folks, the 4th of the big ten solved. Acts 15 is a starter pack to the big ten, which included Shabbat. It cannot be denied.
Shalom,
Courtney
@@BiblicalApologetics lol let’s see how your interpretation should read
Acts 15 according to the TO.
1But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2. And Paul and Barnabas replied,” we are teaching the Gentiles to observe the Torah and they will become circumcised to observe the Passover as required by the law.”
3. And the men from Judea replied, “ Oh, never mind, continue what you are teaching.”
End of Acts 15
Oh but let’s not stop it there let’s end it a little bit later.
5. But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”
6. And the council in the elders replied,” Peter and the other apostles are already teaching the Gentiles to observe the law of Moses to keep the Passover as required to become circumcised.”
7. Then the believing Pharisees replied,” then we feel there is no longer need for this council and request these proceedings to be closed.”
Alternate ending to Acts 15 according to TO interpretation
Send Gentiles to unbelieving synagogues that will reject messiah…….and be told to circumcise themselves and keep the Law when the Messiah prophesied his followers would get thrown out of the synagogues…… seems more of reason to NOT send them to the synagogues but to meet in House churches
And since the Law doesn’t change Gentiles must enter it the same way they entered the old covenant which was by CIRCUMCISION, Deu 14 21 says the Israelite may not eat an animal that dies of itself but give it to the stranger within the gates that HE may eat of it….. problem for you if the stranger was apart of the covenant HE MUST abide by the same regulations as the Israelites…..so here is the problem how can you tell the difference between a stranger that joined the covenant vs a stranger that was NOT part of the covenant well if we look into the Targums rendering of the passage it says they may give it to the UNCIRCUMCISED stranger within the gates…….💣💣💣💣💣
Circumcision denoted the stranger that joined the covenant from the one that was not.
@@BiblicalApologetics Just my thoughts on the points that you have made, if you do not mind: Firstly 1 Cor 8 is not necessarily speaking about new believers that are weak and still need to learn Torah. The traditional interpretation which makes the most sense in this context is that Paul was referring to new Jewish believers that were still steeped in their thinking related to the law of Moses, and did not yet understand that we have liberty in Christ. THEY were the weak - the ones that did not get the full picture and that thought that the law of the old covenant is still binding. So Paul was saying that we that know better should not let weak believers loose faith in the gospel of Christ (not the law of Moses - see the change in focus to Christ?) because of something elementary like dietary laws, or anything else that can be prevented. Our focus should therefore be on winning souls for the gospel of Christ and not let the weak stumble.
The 4 commandments in Acts 15 is definitely not a starter pack. If you listened to what Rob said, you will know that the whole idea is not scriptural sound as there are no other verses to remotely suggest that God works incrementally with anyone when it comes to obedience. Secondly, gentile believers did NOT go the synagogues, period. Some Jewish believers might have, but then it was purely for evangelical purposes. So when Paul said that "because the law was read in the synagogues each Sabbath.." he was referring to Jews, not gentiles, that heard the law and therefore we have to conclude that it is mentioned that those 4 laws should be kept only not to offend the Jews that where still weak in their faith, as described in 1 Cor 8.
It is my observation that some Torahist think that everything goes back to the law of Moses, as if that is the foundation of our faith. But, in reality it all points to Jesus and how we should not let anyone stumble in his faith in Jesus,.
Blessings
@@TheBiblicalRoots the Sabbath is just important as the other nine
God had a man's Stone to death for breaking the Sabbath Stone
Prof. It now sounds like to meet standard of Salvation, we do away with the whole law of Moses.
Hi, Kiruian! That's not what I believe the NT teaches. Rather, here's how I understand it:
(1.) *The Torah has not been done away with.* It is a part of holy Scripture. Every Christian Bible begins with the Torah, and it is, therefore, “breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” (1 Tim 3:16-17).
(2.) *The Law of Moses plays an important role in the life of a Christian.* It witnesses against our sin (Rom. 7:7), points us to Jesus (Gal. 3:23-25), teaches us about God and the history of His people, offers wisdom and insight, deepens our understanding of the person and work of Christ, and challenges us to love God (Deut. 6:4-5) and love our neighbor (Lev. 19:18).
(3.) *The Law of Moses is not binding on followers of Jesus as a body of legal requirements of obedience.* This is the consistent witness of the biblical authors across the NT (Acts 15:1-29; Rom. 7:6, 14:1-23; Gal. 3:24-25; Col. 2:16-17, etc.).
(4.) *This does not mean that Christians are without a law and can do whatever we want!* (I had to add this one because I know what my Hebrew roots friends are thinking!) Jesus and NT authors give us many commands. Christians are absolutely called to live lives of love, service, purity, obedience, and moral virtue (Gal 5:13).
Blessings, Rob
Sir, I am in no way connected to what you say Hebrew roots movement, or organization. Although I do not see anything wrong with understanding Hebrew context of the verses for as what you have said, we are detached from the political, socio-cultural climate of the ancient Hebrew. Thus, it is important to understand the Hebrew perspective.
In all due respect, the dominant Christian interpretation does not align with the context of Acts 15:21. Since the Council has done away with circumcision as “initiation” ritual, James instead put forth those rules for the new believers as introductory rules. He continued on to say about Moses’ Law being taught in every city and every Sabbath giving his audience (Gentiles) the idea that they will lean the rest of the Law through those aforementioned ways. This analysis is more attuned to the context and tenor of the message of James. He wanted the believing Gentiles to get hold of those 4 rules first for reasons of promoting sensitivity amongst believers. He knows that the rest of teachings about Torah will be taught eventually in the synagogues. Furthermore, this interpretation does not run counter to common sense. Gentiles are new to the belief, there is no reason why they will be deprived of learning about their belief. Acts 15:21 even bolster the fact that Gentiles really ought to learn and eventually walk in obedience to the Law of God (Torah).
Courtney REKT!
Where does it say in the old testament that you have to be circumcised according to the law of Moses to be saved? Acts 15:1
Hi, Richard. Where does it say in the OT that everything in the NT must be mentioned in the OT?
It's a requirement in the Law of Moses for every male to be circumcised on the eighth day.
Leviticus 12:3
This is a Law (a requirement) in the Law of Moses. If you were not to partake in this commandment, you would be cut off from the community of Israel and would not, "Be saved."
HRM says we must follow every law in the Torah that we can. But for those who are in HRM, this law is shed off to the side a little bit. Paul tells us it doesn't matter if you're circumcised or uncircumcised. What matters is faith expressing itself in love. (Galatians 5:6).
@@ReggieJeankell you left Ex 12 43-49 circumcision is required to keep Passover
@@TheBiblicalRoots The OT was not written with the foreknowledge of a future NT. Your question deserves no merit.
@@ReggieJeankell Salvation in the Christian sense is through Christ. You cannot mix and match OT and NT theology and say circumcision (OT) is required to be saved (NT) as written in Acts 15:1
Actually Jesus said come to him for rest and learn from him. Jesus said to his yoke on. His yoke is the new covenant.
Hold up time on my brother. When you first become a Christian you are a babe in Christ you are required to grow in Grace and knowledge
Can you cite the verse please?
@@thelordwillprovide911 2nd Peter chapter 3 verse 18
@@thelordwillprovide911 Colossians 1:10. Ephesians 4:15. 1 Peter 2:2 Romans 11:36
@@thelordwillprovide911 also Hebrews 5:12
@@irvinelijah8678 these are some great verses brother thank you for sharing that! !
So for Gentiles, fornication was OK, just not around the Jews?
Until Heaven and Earth pass the law and prophets still stand.... Heaven and Earth doesn't pass until Revelation 21
Paul Visits James
Act 21:17 When we arrived in Jerusalem, the brothers and sisters welcomed us gladly.
Act 21:18 On the next day, Paul went in with us to Jacob; all the elders were present.
Act 21:19 After greeting them, he reported to them in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his service.
Act 21:20 And when they heard, they began glorifying God. They said, “You see, brother, how many myriads there are among the Jewish people who have believed-and they are all zealous for the Torah.
Act 21:21 They have been told about you-that you teach all the Jewish people among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or to walk according to the customs.
Act 21:22 What’s to be done then? No doubt they will hear that you have come.
Act 21:23 So do what we tell you. We have four men who have a vow on themselves.
Act 21:24 Take them, and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. That way, all will realize there is nothing to the things they have been told about you, but that you yourself walk in an orderly manner, keeping the Torah.
Act 21:25 “As for Gentiles who have believed, however, we have written by letter what we decided-for them to abstain from what is offered to idols, and from blood, and from what is strangled, and from immorality.”
Act 21:26 The next day Paul took the men, purifying himself along with them. He went into the Temple, announcing when the days of purification would be completed and the sacrifice would be offered for each one of them.
You can see from this passage that Jews who believed in Yeshua ( Jesus ) heard of Paul that he preached against circumcision and keeping the Torah but Jacob ( James ) told him what to do SO THAT THEY WOULD KNOW THAT NONE IF THESE THINGS WERE TRUE BEING SAID ABOUT HIM !!
And 4 Torah commandments that keep the temple holy are to be given to the gentile believers turning to Elohim ( God ) because in verse 8-9 of chapter 15 tells us that one receives the Ruach HaKodesh ( Holy Spirit ) when they believe in their heart that Yeshua died for their sins HalleluYaH
We are to grow in our faith and faith is obedience just read these two verse
Heb 3:18 And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.
Peter told us to add to our faith !! Why so that the gates of the kingdom of heaven would open widely for us
2Pe 1:5 Now for this very reason, making every effort, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, patience; and to patience, godliness;
2Pe 1:7 and to godliness, brotherly love; and to brotherly love, love.
2Pe 1:8 For if these qualities are in you and increasing, they keep you from becoming idle and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah.
2Pe 1:9 But anyone who lacks these qualities is blind-nearsighted because he has forgotten his cleansing from past sins.
2Pe 1:10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, make all the more effort to make your calling and election certain-for if you keep doing these things, you will never stumble.
2Pe 1:11 For in this way entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Messiah Yeshua, will be richly provided for you.
2Pe 1:12 Therefore I intend to keep reminding you of these things, even though you know them and are well-grounded in the truth that you have.
2Pe 1:13 I think it right to stir you up with a reminder, as long as I remain alive in this “tent” of a body-
2Pe 1:14 knowing that my death is soon, as our Lord Yeshua the Messiah has made clear to me.
2Pe 1:15 And I will make every effort for you to always remember these things even after my departure.
Final Words
2Pe 3:14 Therefore, loved ones, while you are looking for these things, make every effort to be found in shalom, spotless and blameless before Him.
2Pe 3:15 Bear in mind that the patience of our Lord means salvation-just as our dearly loved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom given to him.
2Pe 3:16 He speaks about these matters in all of his letters. Some things in them are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist (as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures)-to their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Since you already know all this, loved ones, be on your guard so that you are not led astray by the error of the lawless and lose your sure footing.
2Pe 3:18 Instead, keep growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Yeshua the Messiah. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity! Amen.
Don’t be led away by those who are lawless-Torahless
Shalom and blessings
Nobody is going to read a long post.
@@billyhw5492 people with ears to hear and eyes to see will my friend
@@BiblersWayCottage If you want people to read your posts and not think you're craazy, then you'll need to keep it short. Brevity is the soul of wit.
Hi, BWC! With all due respect, it is a mistake to read every use of the word "lawless" in the NT as a reference to the Law of Moses. Doing so will lead you astray. If we define sin as breaking the Law of Moses, then Adam never sinned in the Garden. Also, under the New Covenant, observing Sabbath, and kosher laws, and the feasts, and circumcision have not been forbidden or canceled. They are permitted (but not required) for all Christians. And, remember, that those things have never been expected of Gentiles. Not even under the Sinai Covenant.
Blessings, Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots shalom,
Ok a few things that I can see from your reply to my posting of scriptures and your perception of how I interpret them !!
1. The law or Torah means Elohim’s instructions and from every covenant that’s what YHVH did He gave instructions and yes to Adam also in the garden. Sin is breaking Abba Father’s instructions.
You said interpreting lawlessness the same way would lead me astray ???
Peter warns those who twist Paul’s letters which are hard to understand and the rest of the Holy Scriptures to their own destruction so now that you know this don’t be led astray by the error of the lawless !!
And yes i understand lawless here isn’t specifically saying breaking the Mosaic Torah , but here is the interpretation of the Torah ( hitting the mark ) sin is interpreted as missing the mark. Ephesians 6:17 tells us that the Word of Elohim is the Spirit and we are to walk by the Spirit and not the flesh because the flesh or carnal mind can’t submit the Torah / Law of Elohim.
Rom 8:6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace;
Rom 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.
Rom 8:8 And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.
Now about gentiles not being required or ever were here is some scriptures for you
Exo 12:48 But if an outsider dwells with you, who would keep the Passover for YHVH Adonai, all his males must be circumcised. Then let him draw near and keep it. He will be like one who is native to the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat from it.
Exo 12:49 The same Torah applies to the native as well as the outsider who dwells among you.”
You see most don’t understand what gentile means.
Gentile means out of covenant
Ephesians 2 tells us a few things that sheds light upon this topic and Romans 11
Eph 2:11 Therefore, keep in mind that once you-Gentiles in the flesh-were called “uncircumcision” by those called “circumcision” (which is performed on flesh by hand).
Eph 2:12 At that time you were separate from Messiah, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Messiah Yeshua, you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah.
You were once ( past tense ) gentiles in the flesh but now we are grafted into the natural becoming Israel and who was Israel ? Yacob ( Jacob )
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female-for you are all one in Messiah Yeshua.
Gal 3:29 And if you belong to Messiah, then you are Abraham’s seed-heirs according to the promise.
Abraham was the grandfather of Yacob ( Jacob ) who became Israel and had twelve sons who were the 12 tribes of Israel and the twelve gates into the New Jerusalem have the names of the 12 tribes of Israel…
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household.
Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off and you-being a wild olive-were grafted in among them and became a partaker of the root of the olive tree with its richness,
Rom 11:18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, it is not you who support the root but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
Rom 11:20 True enough. They were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear-
Rom 11:21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you.
It only really matters if one is being led by the Spirit of the Most High Elohim and the Spirit is leading you into all truth
Paul’s speaks about the fullness of the gentiles in Romans 11 and he is quoting Genesis where Jacob is blessing Joseph’s sons Ephraim and Manasseh and he says that Ephraim is the fullness of the gentiles ? Why one would ask because Ephraim is a name referred to the Northern House of Israel who were cut off and divorced in Jeremiah 3:8 just what was said to Solomon that the kingdom would be divided and it was, hence the new covenant was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah Jeremiah 31:31-34 Hebrews 8:7-10
So many wonderful blessings and the manifold wisdom of the Most High Elohim HalleluYaH
Yeshua I ask that you open many peoples eyes to Your wonderful truth and lead us all by faith into all of Your commandments to truly be a light to the world Amein
Shalom Aleichem as Our King would say
The Sinaitic Law demanded 100% obedience or 100% CURSE, (Gal. 3:10; James 2:10) - no two ways about it. Paul himself said that even in human covenants, once ratified, no one could add to it, or subtract from it, (Gal. 3:15), so how can the Hebrew roots groups possibly think they can interpret it as not requiring animal sacrifices any more or allowing a "gradual" or 'partial' obedience??? Sheer nonsense and willful blindness! This is why a whole NEW covenant was necessary, as the OLD had to be completely FULFILLED and therefore DONE WITH. Only then could a NEW covenant be inaugurated. These people don't want a NEW covenant, they would rather have a mutilated OLD covenant that is no longer recognizable, and rewritten to suit their delusion.
In the absence of Christian seminaries how else could these new converts add knowledge to their faith? The Tanak was the only scriptures they had. Yeshua said we are supposed to “do and teach” the law and the prophets. Paul said he worshipped the way they called heresy, believing all things which are written in the law and the prophets. That’s probably why he told Timothy to give attendance to reading. When they turn to the Messiah the veil is removed in the reading of the Old Testament. The noble Bereans searched the “scriptures” daily. The early believers had very little written record of the New Testament but were experiencing it in real time while they studied the Tanak.
Your know what's funny
The messianic jews are calling hebrew roots movement error. What you explained is the same thing they are preaching.
Check out two messianic jews channel
Hi Vardy! I actually know Jonathan and Eric from the Two Messianic Jews channel, and they aren’t teaching the same thing as Hebrew Roots. HRM says that *all* Christians are *required* to keep the law of Moses, and not doing so is sinful and disobedient. Messianic Judaism says that no one is *required* to keep the law of Moses, but that Jewish believers in Jesus have a sort of cultural calling to do so as a matter of retaining their identity as Jews. And even if a Jewish follower of Jesus did not keep those Torah traditions, they would not be walking in sin.
Shalom, Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots I think that's what Vardy is saying. They said the MJ are calling Hebrew roots "error"
Basically try not to offend your brothers in Christ and it gour rare steak in private if you like it that way.
In Acts 15 the argument was over what you must do to be saved it was not over what you do after you are saved. Paul was arguing with Pharisees that were teaching that you are saved by circumcision some of them also were teaching that you are saved by keeping the law and you don't need Christ.
So, if that was the case, that was All the Apostles needed to say, 'The law doesn't save,' if they were already required to keep it. However, they didn't say that. There is not one scripture where anyone instructs the Church to keep the law of Moses. I can't understand what is so confusing, Jesus's understood this Truth for 2000yrs
Hi Elijah. So are you suggesting that the council determined that the way for the Gentiles to be saved was to avoid those four things? -Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots what I'm saying in Acts 15 the whole argument was about what must they do to be saved. It was not about what do they do after they are saved. After you are saved you keep God's law. Peter said there's no difference between us and the gentiles they believed by faith in Christ that's how they are saved. So after you are safe what do you do you walk in the good works like it says in Ephesians. What are the good works obedience to God keeping his commandments. The law is perfect Psalms 19:7 the law was never the problem the problem was always the people.
@@TheBiblicalRoots if after you are saved you don't keep God's law what's going to happen to you 1st Corinthians chapter 6 verse 9 through 10 Galatians 5:19-20-21 revelation 21:8 they are breaking the ten commandments
@@salpezzino7803 Matthew 23:1 through 3 aren't the apostles part of the church. And Matthew 28 he tells them to go out and teach what I have commanded you. Christ commanded the apostles to keep the law of Moses. How can we say there's one body One Faith one way one Lord one God and then turn around and say the gentiles have different laws than Israel. That's two faiths two laws. That's confusion 1st Corinthians chapter 14 verse 33 God says he is not the author of confusion. John 8:29 Christ says everything he does is to please the father. Should we be like Christ and please the father we are told we ought to have the mind of Christ 1st Corinthians chapter 2 verse 16. Philippians chapter 2 verse 5 let this mind being you that was in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:26-28 we are conformed to the image of Christ
Do you realize that according to Messiah's words in Matt. 28:20, since He commissioned the Apostles to teach the Jews and Gentiles the same thing, TORAH, that according to your definition Jesus is also a TORAHIST?
Regarding the Law of Moses for the Gentile, has the prophecy of Malachi, referring to the "Great and dreadful day of the Lord" occurred yet, in which all were to
"Remember the Law of Moses"
Malachi 4:
4) Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
If not according to this prophecy, remembering the Law of Moses is our obligation.
The more I listen to you, the more you the more you resemble Marcion, since no other apostles' or prophets' writings or testimonies, are valid, if they disagree with Paul, you side with Paul.
Thanks, Clark. Jesus said, "...teaching them to observe _all that I have commanded you."_ Can you show me where Jesus commanded His followers to eat kosher, or keep the weekly Sabbath, or keep the feasts, or be circumcised? We know He talked about some of those things. But where did He issue commands about them to HIs followers?
~Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots La doctrina cambia sustancialmente cuando das por hecho que el mesías hablo palabras opuestas al Padre. El menciono en repetidas ocasiones que no hablaba su propia doctrina. El mesías y el padre UNO SON. Me sorprenden mucho este tipo de respuestas de gente con "medallas" teológicas.
The four commandments may have been given to the Gentiles so that they would not offend God.
I did some research on the Hebrew Roots Movement. From what I read, they do not believe that one has to keep the law of God to be saved, but they understand the importance of being obedient to God's laws. So, why is Rob Solberg making it appear as if that is what they believe? I can point out several reasons: One, he wants nothing to do with the God of Israel. The scriptures tell us that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but Rob Solberg says that Yeshua is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Secondly, Rob Solberg wants nothing to do with God's Laws, which is why he continues to aggressively attack God's Laws as a Mad Man. He said that the Gentiles believers are not required to keep God's laws, but if they want to, they can, using the phrase "not required but permissible." But then he added that he would find it weird if they did, but then he held a Pesach and enjoyed it. I guess it was not strange for him to hold a Pesach. Thirdly, it appears that he is trying to create a new argument called "Torahism," which I heard someone say that Rob Solberg claimed to have originated that term.
Rob Solberg stated that I am personally attacking him, but he is deliberately blinding himself to what I am doing, which is pointing out his distorted doctrine and the hatred he has for God's laws, and to continue to attack them is clear of that and that he wants nothing to do with God's laws.
I am not personally attacking Rob Solberg, but just pointing out that he is deliberately attacking God's laws, speaking double-mindedly, pulling verses out of context, and not responding to some questions he is being asked. In my opinion, he appears to be deliberately lying and being deceptive in saying that the Hebrew Roots Movement believes that one has to keep God's laws to be saved to promote his "Torahism." Rob Solberg, tell me, is that what the Hebrew Roots Movement teaches?
By the way, I do have an issue with the Hebrew Roots Movement when it comes to the temples and other teachings, but this is not about them, this is about Rob Solberg's distorted teachings.
LOL! Thanks, Sam. If I were to use your logic, I would have to say, "I am not attacking you personally, Sam, but you are deliberately lying about me." I have taught numerous times in many of my videos, and even have a whole section in my book _Torahism,_ that only a minority of HRM teaches that salvation comes from keeping the Law. The majority of Hebrew Roots folks claim that salvation comes through faith in Jesus.
Respectfully, Sam, you need to pay a little more attention. If you want to disagree with me, that's great. I welcome it! But get my position and comments correct, first. You made at least 4 erroneous statements about me in this comment alone.
Shalom, Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots I do not know why you are LOL. I am not joking.
Rob, it is one thing to personally attack a person and another to attack a person's distorted view.
Your book, which I have never read, might say only a minority of HRM, but in the videos I have heard, I cannot recall the phrase "only a minority." Maybe you should say that there is a group that claims to be part of the Hebrew Roots Movement that says so and so. Did it ever cross your mind that the Hebrew Roots Movement might feel that you are attacking them for a doctrine they do not teach?
You say that I made at least four erroneous statements about you. So why didn't you point them out or respond? Tell me, where in the scriptures does it say that Yeshua is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Several people that are responding to you, including me, can point out that you are speaking double-mindedly, and I gave you previous examples, including one in my previous post. Luis asked you a question and he posted it several times. Why haven't you answered him?
Another thing is that it is not just about disagreeing, but also pointing out when someone is not speaking according to the scriptures. That is why debates get no one anywhere because it is all about presentation, disagreements, becoming friends, and getting known.
Rob, if the Father addressed Yeshua as his beloved Son and not as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, shouldn't Yeshua be addressed as the Son of God and not as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? There is order in the Godhead; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Just like you previously stated that Yeshua is not the Father, you cannot say Yeshua is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because God is their God. The moment you say Yeshua is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, you are introducing a polytheistic view of the one God.
@@sundownsam3369 Hi, Sam! You bring up some good points.
First, I simply do not have time to read and respond to every single comment I get. There is just too much volume across all my social media and email. I do what I can. (And FYI, typically the longer the message, the more likely I will have to skip past it.) So unfortunately it's just not realistic to expect me to respond to (or even read) everything you write to me on this channel.
Which brings me to my second point: Unless or until you can accurately state my positions, debating with you will not be very profitable for anyone. As a recent example, you completely mischaracterized my position on Hebrew Roots and salvation and aren't familiar with my many statements and writings on the issue.
Third, in our many communications, you have yet to demonstrate any sort of a reasonable willingness to discuss our differences in an open-minded fashion with humility and respect (1 Pet 3:15). Rather, you bear false witness against me by accusing me of motivations and positions that are simply not true. And when I have corrected you on them, you only double-down on your accusations. So while I very much enjoy engaging with people who think differently than I do and discussing these issues, I have no interest in a fruitless, mudslinging conversation.
Lastly, if you give me your email address, I will send you a free PDF copy of my book _Torahism_ so you can better understand where I am coming from. (You can contact me on my website to send me your email privately.)
Blessings, Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots Rob, I read everything you write, no matter how long or short, because I need to respond in an appropriate manner without pulling anything out of context, and you, as a theologian, should know that sometimes one does have to write more than they want because a post usually opens up more in the discussion.
Let me make this clear: I am not bearing false witness against you but just pointing out that what you are posting is not scriptural, which might appear to be bearing false witness because it reflects on the person, but I am not bearing false witness; I am refuting statements that are not scriptural and pointing out that you are not speaking according to scriptures.
How can I mischaracterize your position on the Hebrew Roots movement? Aren't you pointing out the Hebrew Roots teachings and refuting what they are saying? In the same manner, I am just pointing out that your videos reflect upon you wanting nothing to do with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and with his laws. Your statements that Yeshua is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and that the law is not required but permissible make that statement. Luis asked you a question, and I see he continues to post it, but you appear to not want to answer it. I learned one thing: when a person doesn't like a statement that is being said or when they cannot respond to a question being asked, they immediately ridicule the person. I am getting that on this board, which does not bother me, so you stating that I am being malicious does not bother me. From what I am seeing, this only happens among Gentile Christian believers.
I will enter your site and send you my email. I will read each page carefully. I do not read a book to find errors, but as you know, statements made that are not scriptural will immediately stand out.
@@TheBiblicalRoots Rob, just because this so-called minority calls themselves HRM does not mean they are. Just like the Catholic Church, they also call themselves Christians, but we both know they believe something different and they are not of Christianity. Maybe you should say that there is a sect that identifies itself with the HRM, but what separates them from the HBM is that they believe that salvation comes from keeping the law, making them a false doctrine.
By the way, the problem I have with the HRM is their emphasis on the 3rd temple; they rarely teach the walk with God in Yeshua. I heard of some of their members who even denied Yeshua as Messiah, and this is because they rarely teach the walk with God in Yeshua, which is why one should be extremely careful with them; they also appear to be a sect.
By the way, I will be emailing you one or two pages. Read it carefully and put the light of the Scriptures next to it to see if it reflects what the Scriptures clearly teach, in other words, what God made clear the first time he spoke. What you will need to do is put aside everything you believe about the law, because if you go into it with what you believe, you will not truly weigh it. It is based on the Church of Galatia, Galatians 3:10, 3:24, Acts 15, Psalms 19:7, and what God spoke through the lips of Jeremiah. We have spoken many times about this through youtube, but is not the same when it is all put in one or two page.
Rob, you started your debate with Tovia by saying that Yeshua taught Torah, and anyone who teaches against the Law of Moses should be considered a false prophet. Should we all consider you a false prophet because you constantly oppose the Law of Moses, according to your own words? 1) If you believe that the Law of Moseh is "permissable but not required", why does the endtime prophecy by Zechariah in Chapter 12 mention that Egypt and all the nations who do not observe Sukkot will be punished? 2) Why will ten men from all nations (Gentiles) grasp a Jew's tzitzits and say, "Let us go with you, for we heard that God is with you." 3) Isaiah 2:2-3, in the last days, verse 3 says, and many people will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of YeHoVaH, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us concerning His ways and that we may walk in His paths; for the Law will go forth from Zion, and the word of YeHoVah from Jerusalem." Why go to the mountain to learn the Law, if you believe it is only permissable but not required? Do you despise the God of the Tanakh now that you have replaced Him on the throne with Jesus? Looking forward to you reply.
How Acts 15 should read according to the TO. If they are going to be consistent.
1But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2. And Paul and Barnabas replied,” we are teaching the Gentiles to observe the Torah and they will become circumcised to observe the Passover as required by the law.”
3. And the men from Judea replied, “ Oh, never mind, continue what you are teaching.”
End of Acts 15
Oh but let’s not stop it there let’s end it a little bit later.
5. But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”
6. And the council in the elders replied,” Peter and the other apostles are already teaching the Gentiles to observe the law of Moses to keep the Passover as required to become circumcised.”
7. Then the believing Pharisees replied,” then we feel there is no longer need for this council and request these proceedings to be closed.”
Alternate ending to Acts 15 according to TO interpretation
If you're not keeping the law of Moses, Fathers commandments, then you're lawless. :Matthew 7:21-23
I believe you're being led by demons through your doubt....... Learn the biblical truth.... Understanding the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 th-cam.com/video/PwBiIUFoyIY/w-d-xo.html
@@Jeffmacaroni1542 well you bear false witness all the time yet boast you keep the Law when you break it which means YOU are lawless🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💣
@@Jeffmacaroni1542 The word 'lawless' in Matthew is not Torah-less. It is Nomos-less. Nomos simply means law in general, or the law of the time. To insert Torah into the meaning is not sound hermaneutics because the NT itself says that the law of the new covenant has changed from the previous covenant, because we are in a better covenant, not like the old - Hebrews).
@@nicoarnold2200 Torah and Nomos can mean the same thing. In the Septuagint Torah is translated into Nomos. However, Nomos can mean a law in general that isn’t The Law of Moses. But in the Gospel of Matthew, Nomos will often mean “The Law” which some refer to as the Law of Moses.
You teach the opposite of Scripture.... You said the Pharisees meticulously obeyed every Mosiac law daily? FALSE!! Jesus said this about them.... Mark 7:13 “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.”
Luke 16:31 destroys everything you talking about.
that scripture actually destroys your Cult. The Prophet Jeremiah wrote in chapter 31: 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord === NOT LIKE
What?
How so, Irvin?
@@TheBiblicalRoots if you don't listen to Moses and the prophets you don't know God you are lost
That’s not what Luke 16:31 teaches. Read the whole parable, starting at verse 19.
I would like to make something Clear. First I will say, Pastor Rob is serving God by exposing the lies of this hideous Cult. We can see by the comments that God is using him to open the eyes of many. However, Pastor is not teaching anything NEW, he is using Christian orthodoxy in a way that Glorifies God. Bless you Pastor
I believe you're being led by demons through your doubt....... Learn the biblical truth.... Understanding the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 th-cam.com/video/PwBiIUFoyIY/w-d-xo.html
Hebrew Rooters behave very cu1tish-ly.
2 Corinthians 11
Complete Jewish Bible
11 I would like you to bear with me in a little foolishness - please do bear with me! 2 For I am jealous for you with God’s kind of jealousy; since I promised to present you as a pure virgin in marriage to your one husband, the Messiah; 3 and I fear that somehow your minds may be seduced away from simple and pure devotion to the Messiah, just as Havah was deceived by the serpent and his craftiness. 4 For if someone comes and tells you about some other Yeshua than the one we told you about, or if you receive a spirit different from the one you received or accept some so-called “good news” different from the Good News you already accepted, you bear with him well enough! 5 For I don’t consider myself in any way inferior to these “super-emissaries.” 6 I may not be a skilled speaker, but I do have the knowledge; anyhow, we have made this clear to you in every way and in every circumstance.
7 Or did I sin in humbling myself so that you could be exalted, in proclaiming God’s Good News to you free of charge? 8 I robbed other congregations by accepting support from them in order to serve you. 9 And when I was with you and had needs, I did not burden anyone: my needs were met by the brothers who came from Macedonia. In nothing have I been a burden to you, nor will I be. 10 The truthfulness of the Messiah is in me, so that this boast concerning me is not going to be silenced anywhere in Achaia. 11 Why won’t I ever accept your support? Is it that I don’t love you? God knows I do! 12 No, I do it - and will go on doing it - in order to cut the ground from under those who want an excuse to boast that they work the same way we do. 13 The fact is that such men are pseudo-emissaries: they tell lies about their work and masquerade as emissaries of the Messiah. 14 There is nothing surprising in that, for the Adversary himself masquerades as an angel of light; 15 so it’s no great thing if his workers masquerade as servants of righteousness. They will meet the end their deeds deserve.
The entire context of this passage is awesome. However, The Messiah said there would be a strong delusion, and Many would say .... But , who do you say the Messiah is? The attorney general of Israel Rabbi Sha'ul, never taught or preached against the Kingdom message, Paul knew what the Kingdom was supposed to be, and He spent some years out there with The Essenes, before He started preaching.....yeah , he knew what the Kingdom was all about.
The Messiah only had one message, to one group of folks....Lost house of Israel, Repent for the Kingdom is at hand. So, our, first question should be who's the Lost House of Israel?, and who's the found House of Israel? now this However, was after being tested by Satan in Matthew 4 , and all he done was quote The Holy Scriptures( what did He quote, his own Kingdoms rules , right?) Satan left Angels came.
Now to fulfill Isaiah's prophecy of chapter 8 and 9 he preached repent for the kingdom of heavens here. Y'all, see.... Yahweh /Yeshua /and The Ruach Ha Kodesh/ is all right there Genesis 1, The Kingdom was introduced there! it was lost! .... therefore, Yeshua brought back the original Kingdom....... His Father's Kingdom!
Moreover Yeshua literally said if you love me keep my commandments. if he was the word and he is the word then, therefore, He is all of the covenant of The Word of Yahovah, He was Adam's covenant, Enoch, Noah's, Shem , Abraham, Isaac, also Jacob, and all the Lost House of ISRAEL. Isn't that what Rabbi Paul said in Romans 11.....
The New covenant is I will put my laws on the hearts and on their minds what is God's law his Torah. Also I asked 15 Peter said there's no difference between them and the gentiles we believe by faith they believe by faith after faith comes then obedience to prove your faith. Just like Abraham faith obedience circumcision Abraham is the father of the faithful
define Torah
@@salpezzino7803 Torah means instructions God tells you what to do the law the way righteousness the way to live what is good.
@@salpezzino7803 Torah is perfect Psalms 19:7. why would God change something that's perfect the problem was the people the problem was never the law. New covenant same law
@@irvinelijah8678 You haven't defined Torah, How does God tell us what to do?
@@salpezzino7803 he tells us what to do through the Bible through his holy spirit his son Jesus Christ we ought to follow his example you know he was totally obedient to Torah also his 12 apostles. The church supposed to be which is Israel it's supposed to be set apart holy different from the world. Look at the church in America today the church worse than the world. Israel is supposed to teach the world. If you love God you will keep his commandments his feast days clean and unclean meats all of his Torah
Permitted but not required is a better way of sharing Gods message to unbelievers BUT please be carefull. The danger i see is our ego/self pride. No, dnt tell me u will never be puffed up coz anything, apart from Christ will always try to elevate itself above Him. Fact is, torah observance is very difficult to do much less maintaine. And when u start doing it and finding it much much easier.....u will see urself above other christians who does not follow the torah. Its some kind of self achievement that most cannot do yet u can do it. So, be careful my bro/sis....its a path that the Jerusalem Council had to convened and address, w/c is that important. Life on earth is enough burden and yoke to keep us up in prayer and supplication to our Lord and saviour.....dont add one more to it. Shalom
Being upfront. I practice Torah as part of my discipleship. Christ is my savior and I am well aware that no matter what works I do, I will at time fail and still need my High Priest.
That said, I am sincerely curious. Have you practiced Torah any time along your walk with our Savior? I am just wondering if you are of the belief that it is difficult from personal experience. Thanks in advance.
"Permitted not required", a phrase Solberg often says in his videos.
@@rocketmanshawn It's like legalizing marijuana. It will lead to worse things. Better to stay away.
@@sbeasley7585
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.
Fulfil also used in Romans 15:19
Rom 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Fully preached / to the fullest / to the brim
Mat 5:18 Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or serif shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass.
Mat 5:19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees and Torah scholars, you shall never enter the kingdom of heaven!
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
If you're not keeping the law of Moses, Fathers commandments, then you're lawless. :Matthew 7:21-23
The Law of Moses was written for a people in hard of heart, see Matthew 19.8. We can do better now with the grace of the Holy Spirit.
You need to check out two messianic jews channel because of you do not want to listen to the gentile, listen to the Jews
You know what I think is interesting? In Matthew 7 Jesus was speaking to Torah Keepers who couldn't keep the law. Neither can you or all in Torahism
@@VardyMoss Judaism rejects Jesus, I go with a Gentile Christian Pastor
Thanks, Mac. But the fact is that people were breaking God's law (sinning) long before the Law of Moses was given: "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given" (Rom 5:12-13a)
Shalom, Rob
God is not the author of confusion 1st Corinthians 14:33. And Deuteronomy 29 9 through 16 he opens up the covenant for everyone. Why would God change why would God change something that's perfect the law it's perfect the problem was never the law the problem was the people. A new covenant does not change God's law.
Hebrews 7:12 (KJV) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
How was the law changed?
Which law is being referenced that changed?
Gods Law will never change. But the expression of how we keep Gods law has changed. See Matthew 5:21-48.
The Mosaic law was fulfilled by Christ.
And Gods law is written on our hearts. And we establish the morality of it.
One way to look at is like this:
There are no more sacrifices or burnt offerings needed.
But yet, in Philippians 4:15-19 Paul receives a gift and he calls it a sweet smelling sacrifice that is acceptable and well pleasing to God.
Under the old mosaic covenant would giving a gift to someone ever be rendered that way? No because the expression in keeping the law has changed.
I strongly encourage you to take the time and do a long study of working through the old covenant and seeing how Christ fulfilled the law and how all of the law was written in advance according to what Christ would do.
And then investigate how the expressions have changed.
It’s not about the does and don’ts of the flesh. It’s all a matter of the heart.
Leviticus 25.44-46 is perfect?
@@billyhw5492 I guess Leviticus 25:36 don't mean nothing Leviticus 25 39 don't mean nothing I guess Leviticus 25 42.43 don't mean nothing another one of them people who quote part of the scripture. I'm so tired of people who don't understand the Bible it's ridiculous
@@brettdobbs2041 “ many are called but few chosen “
How many were called out of Egypt ?!
But only two from the original went into the promised land, why ? Because they had the right Spirit !!!
The Torah was always meant to be kept by faith !! Not by the letter !!!
Rom 8:6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace;
Rom 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.
Rom 8:8 And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.
Rom 8:9 But you are not in flesh, but in Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His.
The carnal mind cannot subject itself to the Law / Torah of God - Elohim
Heb 3:7 Therefore, just as the Ruach ha-Kodesh - Holy Spirit says, “Today if you hear His voice,
Heb 3:8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness.
Heb 3:9 There your fathers put Me to the test, though they saw My works for forty years.
Heb 3:10 Therefore I was provoked by this generation, and I said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways.’
Heb 3:11 As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest.’”
Heb 3:12 Take care, brothers and sisters, that none of you has an evil heart of unbelief that falls away from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day by day-as long as it is called “Today”-so that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14 For we have become partners of Messiah, if we hold our original conviction firm until the end.
Heb 3:15 As it is said, “Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
Heb 3:16 Now which ones heard and rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt with Moses?
Heb 3:17 And with whom was He provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest? Was it not to those who were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they were not able to enter in because of lack of trust - belief.
Disobedience is unbelief / lack of trust
Obedience is faith / belief
Heb 4:1 Let us fear then! Though a promise of entering His rest is left open, some of you would seem to have fallen short.
Heb 4:2 For we also have had Good News proclaimed to us, just as they did. But the word they heard did not help them, because they were not unified with those who listened in faith.
Shalom
@@BiblersWayCottage we should be in obedience to God, yes and Amen!
Let’s finish what the author of Hebrews is leading us up to and reach the conclusion.
Hebrews 4:3-11 (ESV)
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest,’” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”
5 And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,
7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
In the context of ch 3&4 the disobedience being spoken of is the sin of unbelief or of lack of faith.
Also at verse 3 there is a switch within the details. It goes from using Israel as an example of some of them not entering the promise land to those who did enter the promise land and the switch occurs speaking of Gods eternal sabbath. If They would have entered into Gods sabbath rest then, it wouldn’t have been spoken of another day later on. Meaning what exactly? That they had to continue to keep the 7th day sabbath in accordance to Torah. There remains a sabbath rest for Gods people to obtain. How do we obtain it? By our faith in him. Therefore we have entered into that sabbath rest. Therefore we keep Gods sabbath by our faith in him.
Right here we see the expression of how we keep the law has changed.
So this is now how we keep the sabbath under the new covenant. Compared to keeping the literal 7th day from the mosaic covenant.
We’re in Gods sabbath everyday. For the rest of this life and the eternal.
Hebrews 4:11 (ESV) Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. The disobedience being unbelief.
You makes me write a lot! I am responding to the first 3 1/2 minutes of your video and it's okay if you do not read it, but I will continue to hear the video and respond accordingly. But your videos are becoming tiresome, causing fatigue, always the same thing in another form, don't you get tired? Why don't you make a video about walking with God in Yeshua, encouraging to walk with God?
You are either ignorantly pulling the verse out of context or deliberately pulling the verse out of context. If you are deliberately pulling the verse out of context to avoid God's laws and to teach that they are not required to be observed, then you will have to answer to God. For you to state that God's laws are not required but permissible, the latter applies, which means you want nothing to do with God's laws just like you want nothing to do with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As a matter of fact, and to my recollection, I never heard you say that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but I did see you tell Luis that Yeshua is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but you cannot support it through the Scriptures.
On Acts 15:21, you appear to be basing your view on the headings that divide the chapter.
Though Acts 15:21 does not clearly state that the Gentile believers were keeping every Sabbath where they would learn and be taught the Torah, that does not conclude that the Gentile believers were not keeping the Sabbath. Acts 13:42 tells us that the Gentile believers besought that what was read be preached to them on the next Sabbath, which insinuates that the Gentile believers were fully aware that the Torah was being read and taught on the Sabbath and the importance of keeping the Sabbath. If you read verse 44 in Acts 13, the next Sabbath day came, almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God, and according to verse 42, the Gentile believers were part of that Sabbath in verse 44.
The Council did not decide! Why don't you read verses 7 through 11? When there had been much disputing, Peter rose up (probably with authority) and explained his vision and settled it, and verse 12 says that all the multitude kept silent. Then Peter made it clear that salvation is by grace and not by the works of the law, and he questioned them, "why are they putting a yoke upon the necks of the disciples?" The yoke can be read in verse 1, which was the reason their gathering. It had nothing to do with doing away with God's laws, but since you want nothing to do with God's laws, you will do everything and anything to aggressively attack God's laws, as I stated many times.
You have not responded to the question. Do you believe 1st John 5:3, where it states, for this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and that His commandments are not burdensome, in other words, not difficult to carry out or fulfill, being that as we walk after the Spirit, the Spirit will fulfill the righteousness of the law in us? If you answer yes to this question, it makes it clear that you have no understanding as to why they said except to abstain from four things, which God did not say. The term that was used was, "it seemed good to the Holy Ghost." Do you know why the word "seem" was used? Furthermore, and I will say it again, being that you want nothing to do with God's laws, you will continue to aggressively attack God's laws, and to say that God's laws are not required but permissible is not only a diabolical statement, but a deceptive statement.
You will only use God's laws when it suits you, which is why you state God's laws are permissible. Now you will throw the "thou shalt not bear false witness" law against me. Tell me, are those who oppose you and make it clear that you are indubitably wrong, stating that you are distorting the scriptures, bearing false witness against you?
Rob, I am not personally attacking you as you stated, nor am I bearing false witness against you as you stated, but only pointing out that you are teaching contrary to God's laws, aggressively attacking God's laws, and that is dangerous. As I previously stated, you don't realize it, but you are eating grass, and you will continue until you stop leaning on your own understanding and understand that God's laws still apply. Do you know that men with biblical degrees are starting to trash their degrees because God is opening their eyes to scriptural truth and they are realizing that they have been taught or learned false teachings?
I personally like you and I am sure you are a nice person, but when a person continues to aggressively attack God's law, I cannot allow one's gentleness and kindness to stop me from pointing out what they are doing, and as I told you several times, when I write it does sound harsh, don't take it personally.
@Sundown Sam yes you do write a lot. Your getting a little edgy. I have this conversation ongoing in my family I find the videos ery informative. To me the TO community has to bend Acts 15 out of context way more for it to fit their narrative versus the other way around.
I really enjoyed your message sundown Sam
Blessings and shalom brother
Pro-tip Sam: If you write 3 lines instead of 3 pages, people will actually read what you have to say.
@@billyhw5492 That is the problem with people; either they just don't like to read, or they assume what is being said, which prevents them from truly weighing what is being said within the context. That is why the scriptures are being distorted is either because people take verses out of context instead of reading them within context or because they just don't like to read the scriptures and use someone else's argument.
As for Robert, he wants nothing to do with the God of Israel, and he made it clear that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is Yeshua, and nowhere in the scripture does it say that Yeshua is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and I am not denying deity.
Several days ago, I was sent a video titled "The Dangers of Torahism" Part 1 published by the Torah Family. Why don't you look it up? Several of us have been saying the same thing all along, but this guy explains the problem with Rob Solberg and refutes his teachings.
What is sad is that Rob Solberg appears to want nothing to do with the God of Israel nor God's laws, which is why he continues to aggressively attack God's laws, and that is dangerous. Though I will hear his video, I will not respond. I will be preparing two text-to-speech videos, one having to do with the Emperors and Jews and the other pointing out who Rob Solberg is according to scripture. Many say he is a professor of philosophy and theology, but I will tell you what he is called according to scripture.
By the way, do you really think I care if one doesn't read my post because it is long? Here is a new quote you just allowed me to create: "Readers read, but ignorant people make assumptions based on a single line." "Don't be ignorant and just read even if you disagree."
@@billyhw5492 That is why you distort the Scriptures; you don't like reading. Another thing, do you think I care if someone reads my post or not? I do not write to impress, but to point out people like you who only distort the Scriptures.
Sweet we can all start shoplifting and for all those that have desires to lay with a animal or....... no, and your wrong the Christian way of looking only marries with Paul taken out of context. Your arguments only line up with man's explanation it goes against everything I can't watch anymore
No longer being under the Law of Moses does not mean we are lawless or without law. The New Covenant established in Christ’s blood ushered in a new priesthood and a new law that is written on our hearts. So no, we cannot start shoplifting or engaging in sexual immorality. That is not at all what Christianity teaches. Christ ushered in an the true intent of God’s never-ending law that focuses on our hearts- the law of love, the law of Christ, the perfect law of liberty. His Spirit enables us and bears fruit in us. Hope this helps explain the Christian stance :)
Actually under the Law of Christ we can't get away with stuff anymore that Moses let people get away with. See Matthew 19.8.
So here we go the same old argument taught by men,,,We're no longer under the law of sin and death because of our sin, we fall under the law of sin and death which Christ save us from, Paul clearly tells us this. God never changes , psalms tells us His laws are perfect and everlasting just as we see them being kept in the new Jerusalem. Deut 13 days if anyone ever teaches you against what I say today they are false teachers so kill them least they draw you away, the rich man says to Christ how do I inherit the kingdom of God "keep His commands... there are 1000's of scriptures that teach us how to live and speak of this. The new covenant is at the resurrection! Romans 7 "I speak you you who know the law" so if you don't know the law you WONT understand me! Then he talks of the marriage covenant. At mount sinai He married us, we come in to a marriage covenant,then divorced us due to us whoring and going after other gods. So how do we come back In to covenant, does He just re marry us? No that would break the marriage law and so would Christ making Him a sinner IF YOU KNEW THE LAW... the marriage covenant dies at death, so He could rise and then re marry a bride that isn't whoring and walking astray... that's why we die in baptism and rise a new, not a whore...it's beautiful but in general Christian belief is focused on speaking of Gods law was as a burden and trying to get away from His ways it's the worse thing you can do, I hate it and I wont be replying again it's a waist of time as you will never be told as people hearts are not in this walk, they generally don't like to change and drop things like Christmas as they enjoy....may God open your eyes and ears. The prophets speak of two types of people in the end days one being His people starting to wake up and walk in His ways and they are described as His people and another group of people inflicting violence against His law and they are described in a very negative manner.... be warned.
Watch these they can help you understand if your truly wanting the truth and how to love God. " how do you love Me keep my commands, how do you love your neighbours keep my commands"
the error of dispensation
The lost sheep of Israel
And a series by 119 The Pauline paradox that will give you a understanding on what Paul actually says as we're told in Peter Paul is hard to understand.
Peace be with you shalom
@@Hutchy46 Thanks for your long message sir, but there are a few logical fallacies from the HRM arguments which I do not expect of you to agree with. One is when you mentioned "The prophets speak of two types of people in the end days"
The HRM idea is that Christianity has lost its ways a long time ago, and you are here to save the day as God has somehow restored truths that ALL of Christianity could not understand or comprehend for almost 2000 years.
Christianity says that all kinds of deceptions will come in the last days, and that we have to be vigilant. The Bible does not teach that some kind of lost truth will be restored in the lat days.
Hey, DJTOY - Morality did not begin with the Law of Moses. Murder, stealing, wickedness, adultery, greed, etc. were wrong long before Sinai. They’ve been wrong since the beginning. And that’s because man was created in God’s image and we have objective morality “baked into“ our humanness. What _did_ begin at Sinai were the laws about the weekly Shabbat, kosher food, feasts, etc. Those laws were given only to Israel to set her apart as a nation for God.
Blessings, Rob
Rob, you started your debate with Tovia by saying that Yeshua taught Torah, and anyone who teaches against the Law of Moses should be considered a false prophet. Should we all consider you a false prophet because you constantly oppose the Law of Moses, according to your own words? 1) If you believe that the Law of Moseh is "permissable but not required", why does the endtime prophecy by Zechariah in Chapter 12 mention that Egypt and all the nations who do not observe Sukkot will be punished? 2) Why will ten men from all nations (Gentiles) grasp a Jew's tzitzits and say, "Let us go with you, for we heard that God is with you." 3) Isaiah 2:2-3, in the last days, verse 3 says, and many people will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of YeHoVaH, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us concerning His ways and that we may walk in His paths; for the Law will go forth from Zion, and the word of YeHoVah from Jerusalem." Why go to the mountain to learn the Law, if you believe it is only permissable but not required? Do you despise the God of the Tanakh now that you have replaced Him on the throne with Jesus? Looking forward to you reply.
How many times do you have to post this? Posting the same post so many times gives away the fact that you are a cray-zee person.
@@billyhw5492 He can post as much as he wants until his question is answered.
Rob, you started your debate with Tovia by saying that Yeshua taught Torah, and anyone who teaches against the Law of Moses should be considered a false prophet. Should we all consider you a false prophet because you constantly oppose the Law of Moses, according to your own words? 1) If you believe that the Law of Moseh is "permissable but not required", why does the endtime prophecy by Zechariah in Chapter 12 mention that Egypt and all the nations who do not observe Sukkot will be punished? 2) Why will ten men from all nations (Gentiles) grasp a Jew's tzitzits and say, "Let us go with you, for we heard that God is with you." 3) Isaiah 2:2-3, in the last days, verse 3 says, and many people will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of YeHoVaH, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us concerning His ways and that we may walk in His paths; for the Law will go forth from Zion, and the word of YeHoVah from Jerusalem." Why go to the mountain to learn the Law, if you believe it is only permissable but not required? Do you despise the God of the Tanakh now that you have replaced Him on the throne with Jesus? Looking forward to you reply
Rob, you started your debate with Tovia by saying that Yeshua taught Torah, and anyone who teaches against the Law of Moses should be considered a false prophet. Should we all consider you a false prophet because you constantly oppose the Law of Moses, according to your own words? 1) If you believe that the Law of Moseh is "permissable but not required", why does the endtime prophecy by Zechariah in Chapter 12 mention that Egypt and all the nations who do not observe Sukkot will be punished? 2) Why will ten men from all nations (Gentiles) grasp a Jew's tzitzits and say, "Let us go with you, for we heard that God is with you." 3) Isaiah 2:2-3, in the last days, verse 3 says, and many people will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of YeHoVaH, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us concerning His ways and that we may walk in His paths; for the Law will go forth from Zion, and the word of YeHoVah from Jerusalem." Why go to the mountain to learn the Law, if you believe it is only permissable but not required? Do you despise the God of the Tanakh now that you have replaced Him on the throne with Jesus? Looking forward to you reply.
The Torah was a promise, and Jesus fulfilled that promise.
@@billyhw5492 where in the word God does it say that torah was a promise?
@@luiscajigas5567 Genesis 3.15.
@@billyhw5492 You are so ignorant of the scriptures, and that is because you just pull verses out of context. In Genesis 3:15, God is telling the serpent (satan) about a seed he was going to put between the serpent (satan) and the woman, nothing to do about the Torah. The promise of the seed was given to and came through Abraham.
Remember what I wrote to you, "Readers read, but ignorant people make assumptions about what is being said based on a single line." You are ignorant of biblical truth because you do not read but just pull verses out of context.
@@billyhw5492 Ny Brother, the Torah, law of Moses, was a covenant not a promise. A Promise can't be broken. I am a Child of the Promise. Romans 4:13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.