On the topic of sec not reading space law: I've taken up a habit of either not wearing my ID when I'm tiding or burning it up in a microwave. The only inconvenience for sec is that I show up as a ? on the HUD but for me I lose easy access to maints and borgs no longer see me as crew. You can take a guess as to how many arrests it leads to when I refuse to get a new one or wear it.
You got me hooked on the deathsquad idea for revs. I've only seen deathsquad ONCE. I think Epsilon level should also be called automatically when the 80% threshold is reached just to start the deathsquad assault phase to major victory.
Calling ERT on Revs is the one idea I like the most ironically enough. Albeit I feel that'd turn into Impromptu Nukies just after Revs, and if you hate nukies... yeah... But hey! Two gamemodes back to back! Who doesn't love those?
on the subject of the deathsquad: admins have repeatedly vetoed proposals that spawn ERT roles without admin oversight, mostly for the sake of stopping griefers from just taking the roles and going nuts
I think the rework the guy on discord you showed proposed is a bit too much, Id much rather keep the gamemode simple and true to it's premise about rising tension, as command members keep going mysteriously missing one by one with seemingly no cause until you realize "Oh shit. It's a revolution.", rather than adding arbitrary stuff such as meters or objectives onto it. The main grievances people have about revolutionaries seem to be that 1) revolutionaries are compelled to kill people who are command and security members / people who are mindshielded and are actively working against them 2) revolutionaries can be revealed by metagaming because their main function (converting) is tied to a specific item 3) security often simply blindly mindshields anyone who isn't yet mindshielded 4) both parties are overly relient on the cargo department and I think adressing these core issues is the right way to go instead of fully reworking the gamemode into something entirely else. For the first issue of revolutionaries round-removing people I think that the ERT proposal is a great idea of keeping people engaged in the round, even if they got killed soon into the shift, and if you even then don't wanna become a revolution roadkill, just stay out of their way or play a different game, as what is essentially a murder-mystery game (albeit with many flavors) may not be the right game for you. Other than that, I'd not give revolutionaries any new objectives, as that would feel arbitrary and taking total control over the station makes thematically more sense anyways. For the second point I think that we can all agree on flashes needing to go. Instead of adding some arbitrary meter however, I'd give head revolutionaries an inherent ability to convert people via an action in the hotbar menu with a cooldown (said cooldown could be dynamic depending on the state of the round, but I'm just trying to paint a general idea here instead of overdesigning things). This alone would make revolutions way less metagaming-susceptible as the head revolutionaries would no longer be identifiable by having flashes on them, and different people's testimonies or security's observation would have to be relied on for decoding who is the cause of the revolution. It would also additionally mean that people would no longer be able to metagamingly resist conversion by wearing proper eye protection (a detail that didn't make a lot of sense in-universe anyways). The third issue is a bit harder to adress as security undoubtably needs a non-lethal way to fight against the revolution, however that way needs to not be use-limited in some way so that security doesn't get overwhelmed by the evergrowing ammount of revolutionaries, but not spammable to the point that security would do what they do with mindshields currently (implanting everyone for no reason). As a middleground a security-specific item/ability with unlimited uses but a cooldown seems to be the most logical option. Security would be able to use it to shield people, however they'd be much better off using it on already converted people who are actively causing trouble instead of wasting the lengthy cooldown on someone who hasn't done anything yet. Additionally I think removing the ability of security huds and glasses to see who is or is not mindshielded would force security to use their brain for determining who could be a revolutionary and should be mindshielded and who is not, as using up the mindshielding item's cooldown on an already mindshielded person would waste the cooldown while giving nothing in return, instead of just mindshielded everyone they see without a bright blue frame around their job icon. These changes would also simultaneously fix the fourth issue of both the revolutionaries and security/command instinctively going for cargo simply because the revolutionaries sheer ability to expand their ranks is relient on it, but would still be a good option as it is still a great source of obtaining supplies and weapons for the revolutionaries. TLDR.: - make headrevs use a hotbar ability with a cooldown to convert people instead of flashes (fixes revs getting revealed by metagaming & their partial reliance on cargo) - instead of consumable minshields give security rechargable ones, which can be used infinitely but because of the cooldown should be used wisely (fixes security mass mindshielding random people and removes dependency on cargo) - remove the ability of sechuds and secglasses to see people who are mindshielded (further discourages security from mindshielding people without a mindshield on sight) - add the round-end ERT ghostroles for people who got murdered/ran over by the revolutionaries early into the round to have fun with
As Sec, I will ABSOLUTELY under NO CIRCUMSTANCE help Revs even if that means I get round removed as a result of this, but the thing about gradual conversion is cool. The server I play on already sends in ERT if Revs are going to win, they usually lose due to this but it's cool.
This makes a lot of sense, NT wouldn't tolerate something like this if they have a death squad at their disposal. I think if revs trigger an ERT response it sounds count as at least minor victory if not major. It's a significant distribution to the station and imo that's more than traitor rounds accomplish
The thing i hate most about Revs is "Oops, you're an antag now. Sucks if you had other plans and had antag roles disabled. Guess that thing/gimmick you were planning isn't happening." The instant team deathmatch and "you're either with us or against us," bit is also kinda shitty too, i agree.
For command to become reved the revs have to A. Capture a command alive, B rip out the implant, C go through a whole process to convert. And D any converted command are blatantly obvious on sechuds
Repeat crimes acrew additional sentencing, so repeate tresspass and hooliganism can build up to a proper arrest. Mind you the punishment is basically a slap on the wrist. As for mind shield implants, does the implanter from the medfab not remove any implant to include mind shields. Not sure how to fix revs, never liked it, server I play on basically removed it.
another option or even just addition couuld be to add rev-like task to sci. change anom generation to require them to run around with science flash-scanner type item to scan random people that have some lingering interspace particles on them (invisible withoutt special black glasses from sci), doesn't actually do anything to vision but the scanning still trips people so itt looks almost identtical tto the outside. have sci hand these out like candy because people with sci particles on them scanning eachother is more effective or something. was that explosion a syndie, or just sci again triggering explosive nodes on artis? are there revs on the loose or is it just sci chasing people for anom generation? screw it, give sci a reason to steal thief objectives to reduce/manage the type and intensity of random event spawns. science, researching how to be antags since always :P
people fear nilk. so i always get the shield, this instance. i DID kill CE but no one knew about it not even engi. so my complaining was valid. rules are still rules
I mean sec is kinda forced to ignore law when it comes to revs being found out as usually just hanging around and waiting for someone to do something just means that by the time anything happens, half the crew is revs. That leaves as the only possible counterplay sec can make other than just killing people being having to race revolutionaries and create their own little army of mindshielded people in order to fight back to some degree. That in turn leads to forceful implantations of mindshields which caused the issue present in the video. Its also kind of space laws fault that it doesnt have any specifications or rules regarding revs. Revs need to be changed and I couldnt agree more.
Careful now! Offering constructive criticism is explicitly banned by SS14 devs. You won't be able to make these vids once they figure out your steam account and remove you from the beta....
![[SS14] Stupidity, Break ins, Peashburgers.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dxDjv6RfkYc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[SS14] Stupidity, Break ins, Peashburgers.](/img/tr.png)
![Job Stereotypes: Janitor, Boxer, Zookeeper [SS14]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D3nusZ4xUaw/mqdefault.jpg)
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![[SS14] This Shift Shows PERFECTLY Why Revolutionaries is a Bad Gamemode](/img/n.gif)
On the topic of sec not reading space law: I've taken up a habit of either not wearing my ID when I'm tiding or burning it up in a microwave. The only inconvenience for sec is that I show up as a ? on the HUD but for me I lose easy access to maints and borgs no longer see me as crew.
You can take a guess as to how many arrests it leads to when I refuse to get a new one or wear it.
You got me hooked on the deathsquad idea for revs. I've only seen deathsquad ONCE. I think Epsilon level should also be called automatically when the 80% threshold is reached just to start the deathsquad assault phase to major victory.
Admins use em as admemes alot
Calling ERT on Revs is the one idea I like the most ironically enough. Albeit I feel that'd turn into Impromptu Nukies just after Revs, and if you hate nukies... yeah...
But hey! Two gamemodes back to back! Who doesn't love those?
on the subject of the deathsquad: admins have repeatedly vetoed proposals that spawn ERT roles without admin oversight, mostly for the sake of stopping griefers from just taking the roles and going nuts
then maybe there could be some kind of playtime requirement for it, something like either a tiny bit of command experience, or just sec experience.
I think the rework the guy on discord you showed proposed is a bit too much, Id much rather keep the gamemode simple and true to it's premise about rising tension, as command members keep going mysteriously missing one by one with seemingly no cause until you realize "Oh shit. It's a revolution.", rather than adding arbitrary stuff such as meters or objectives onto it.
The main grievances people have about revolutionaries seem to be that
1) revolutionaries are compelled to kill people who are command and security members / people who are mindshielded and are actively working against them
2) revolutionaries can be revealed by metagaming because their main function (converting) is tied to a specific item
3) security often simply blindly mindshields anyone who isn't yet mindshielded
4) both parties are overly relient on the cargo department
and I think adressing these core issues is the right way to go instead of fully reworking the gamemode into something entirely else.
For the first issue of revolutionaries round-removing people I think that the ERT proposal is a great idea of keeping people engaged in the round, even if they got killed soon into the shift, and if you even then don't wanna become a revolution roadkill, just stay out of their way or play a different game, as what is essentially a murder-mystery game (albeit with many flavors) may not be the right game for you. Other than that, I'd not give revolutionaries any new objectives, as that would feel arbitrary and taking total control over the station makes thematically more sense anyways.
For the second point I think that we can all agree on flashes needing to go. Instead of adding some arbitrary meter however, I'd give head revolutionaries an inherent ability to convert people via an action in the hotbar menu with a cooldown (said cooldown could be dynamic depending on the state of the round, but I'm just trying to paint a general idea here instead of overdesigning things). This alone would make revolutions way less metagaming-susceptible as the head revolutionaries would no longer be identifiable by having flashes on them, and different people's testimonies or security's observation would have to be relied on for decoding who is the cause of the revolution. It would also additionally mean that people would no longer be able to metagamingly resist conversion by wearing proper eye protection (a detail that didn't make a lot of sense in-universe anyways).
The third issue is a bit harder to adress as security undoubtably needs a non-lethal way to fight against the revolution, however that way needs to not be use-limited in some way so that security doesn't get overwhelmed by the evergrowing ammount of revolutionaries, but not spammable to the point that security would do what they do with mindshields currently (implanting everyone for no reason). As a middleground a security-specific item/ability with unlimited uses but a cooldown seems to be the most logical option. Security would be able to use it to shield people, however they'd be much better off using it on already converted people who are actively causing trouble instead of wasting the lengthy cooldown on someone who hasn't done anything yet. Additionally I think removing the ability of security huds and glasses to see who is or is not mindshielded would force security to use their brain for determining who could be a revolutionary and should be mindshielded and who is not, as using up the mindshielding item's cooldown on an already mindshielded person would waste the cooldown while giving nothing in return, instead of just mindshielded everyone they see without a bright blue frame around their job icon.
These changes would also simultaneously fix the fourth issue of both the revolutionaries and security/command instinctively going for cargo simply because the revolutionaries sheer ability to expand their ranks is relient on it, but would still be a good option as it is still a great source of obtaining supplies and weapons for the revolutionaries.
TLDR.:
- make headrevs use a hotbar ability with a cooldown to convert people instead of flashes (fixes revs getting revealed by metagaming & their partial reliance on cargo)
- instead of consumable minshields give security rechargable ones, which can be used infinitely but because of the cooldown should be used wisely (fixes security mass mindshielding random people and removes dependency on cargo)
- remove the ability of sechuds and secglasses to see people who are mindshielded (further discourages security from mindshielding people without a mindshield on sight)
- add the round-end ERT ghostroles for people who got murdered/ran over by the revolutionaries early into the round to have fun with
Recon the Anti-rivify ability should be a whole department thing or only 1 guy? like say, only the HoS can deconvert people or something of the sort?
As Sec, I will ABSOLUTELY under NO CIRCUMSTANCE help Revs even if that means I get round removed as a result of this, but the thing about gradual conversion is cool. The server I play on already sends in ERT if Revs are going to win, they usually lose due to this but it's cool.
This makes a lot of sense, NT wouldn't tolerate something like this if they have a death squad at their disposal. I think if revs trigger an ERT response it sounds count as at least minor victory if not major. It's a significant distribution to the station and imo that's more than traitor rounds accomplish
The thing i hate most about Revs is "Oops, you're an antag now. Sucks if you had other plans and had antag roles disabled. Guess that thing/gimmick you were planning isn't happening."
The instant team deathmatch and "you're either with us or against us," bit is also kinda shitty too, i agree.
I mean, not sure if anything would be done about it, but you should Ahelp these issues.
That would be real fun, a reved command would be real fun but it sounds super hard to deal with as sec.
For command to become reved the revs have to A. Capture a command alive, B rip out the implant, C go through a whole process to convert. And D any converted command are blatantly obvious on sechuds
deathsquad is almost impossible to fight head on, ERT would be more fair, but a special anti rev team should be made
Repeat crimes acrew additional sentencing, so repeate tresspass and hooliganism can build up to a proper arrest. Mind you the punishment is basically a slap on the wrist.
As for mind shield implants, does the implanter from the medfab not remove any implant to include mind shields.
Not sure how to fix revs, never liked it, server I play on basically removed it.
mindshield cannot be remove unless ya clone ya body
We need cultist on goob cause revs and syndies is getting old
another option or even just addition couuld be to add rev-like task to sci. change anom generation to require them to run around with science flash-scanner type item to scan random people that have some lingering interspace particles on them (invisible withoutt special black glasses from sci), doesn't actually do anything to vision but the scanning still trips people so itt looks almost identtical tto the outside. have sci hand these out like candy because people with sci particles on them scanning eachother is more effective or something.
was that explosion a syndie, or just sci again triggering explosive nodes on artis?
are there revs on the loose or is it just sci chasing people for anom generation?
screw it, give sci a reason to steal thief objectives to reduce/manage the type and intensity of random event spawns.
science, researching how to be antags since always :P
perhaps surgery would be a good way to remove mind shield implants
Implanters anyone?
just a week away
people fear nilk. so i always get the shield, this instance. i DID kill CE but no one knew about it not even engi. so my complaining was valid. rules are still rules
I don’t fear nilk
I die before I see nilk
@@GNF54 I have been told by several players that they are afraid of me lol, but that's cause I creepily stalk people
I mean sec is kinda forced to ignore law when it comes to revs being found out as usually just hanging around and waiting for someone to do something just means that by the time anything happens, half the crew is revs. That leaves as the only possible counterplay sec can make other than just killing people being having to race revolutionaries and create their own little army of mindshielded people in order to fight back to some degree. That in turn leads to forceful implantations of mindshields which caused the issue present in the video. Its also kind of space laws fault that it doesnt have any specifications or rules regarding revs. Revs need to be changed and I couldnt agree more.
nilk is always their I had rounds that nilk sydie an holy he was a pain to capture
its me, im nilk hahaha
@@BOAxdog SEC TO MED NILK SPOONING PEOPLE AGAIN
@@chadosmenif Nilk is at med she’s probably the one in danger :godo:
Careful now! Offering constructive criticism is explicitly banned by SS14 devs. You won't be able to make these vids once they figure out your steam account and remove you from the beta....