I have used Terwiliger's "400 day clock repair guide" which describes the method mentioned in the video using a marked "protractor" like piece of paper for setting the beat and spent many hours trying to get it just right. (By the way I love that book and highly recommend it.) The method James describes in the video is way easier, takes about 10 minutes or less!! Without a beat amplifier or stethoscope to assist hearing the tick/tock I found that I could view the escape wheel gear and anchor pallets through the back plate of the clock to see when a pallet transitions from one escape wheel tooth to the other, the mechanism that makes the tick/tock sound. Many clocks have two large holes near the top of the back plate on either side of the pendulum wire for viewing. For those who don't know what he is adjusting it is called the "saddle". It is the small round post where the top end of the pendulum/wire assembly hangs from. Some use a screw in the top of it to secure it and some are just press fit in, it is the saddle (mounting post) that he rotates thus rotating the orientation of the pendulum/wire assembly. (Loosen the top screw, be careful not to rotate the saddle when snugging it back up when you're done. The press fit ones will rotate and rely on their friction to stay put.) Following his instructions rotate the pendulum slowly until the escape wheel releases and hits a pallet (tick), stop right there! Release the pendulum and let it rotate on its own power, it should stop just as the escape wheel turns and an anchor pallet hits another tooth (tock). If the pendulum rotates too far, i.e. beyond the tock, in one direction you turn the saddle slightly in the opposite direction and vice versa. When the beat is set properly the pendulum will swing and stop just at the point when the anchor pallet hits a tooth on the escape wheel, it won't matter which direction it is turning as it should stop just as an anchor pallet hits a tooth. When its in beat with no other issues (like needing oil on all of the pivot locations or a broken main spring) you'll find that that the pendulum will swing, stop on a tooth (tick), then rotate back and stop on a tooth (tock), you can now start the clock normally by rotating the pendulum 180 degrees and releasing it. This method is a great time saver! THANK YOU JAMES!!!!
I have struggled for hours trying to set the beat using a "protractor" scale and a stethoscope listening for the tick tock as described in Terwiliger's 400 Day Clock Repair book, only getting the beat set correctly after a great deal of effort. With this method I can get the beat set in less than 10 minutes! I couldn't be more pleased. Thank you so much James!!!!
This is a very helpful video. I recently rescue a Kundo clock from salvage. The main spring is fully wound up but the clock keep stopping. I now realize the tick and tock (the escapement and the suspension spring and fork) must be timed properly so that the main spring can give just a tiny bit of energy to keep the pendulum going. And this video put it in a couldn't be simpler term: Release from "tick" and it twist to "tock" and vice versa by itself. The Kundo clock have a screw next to the block to lock it. So just loosen the screw and I can twist the "block" by hand. After I adjusted the beat, I can already feel the clock wants to start itself and start swinging winder and wider, it's amazing. Thanks, James, for taking the time to share this knowledge. CJ
I've just spent several hours fiddling about with one of these clocks in order to get it to work, I wish I had watched your video first! I've now checked the beat as per your instructions, the balls have an even swing either side of the tick and the tock which is good!
This video was so much help! Your directions are very clear, even for someone like me with their first clock of this type. I bought mine at an antique store for $12, then spent $32 for the suspension unit and key, it didn't have the fork or bottom block. I am only getting about 190 degree of rotation but it is running, and actually a little fast, but I will let it run a while like this before I try to regulate it. Thanks so much!
Thanks James, you made it easier to adjust the beat and the pendulum twist. My first one and its been a real challenge for such an easy looking clock lol.
Once you've dialed in the adjustment wheel (mine took about a week to get it right - trial & error), there's a much easier way to regulate the clock. To start out, of course you want to make sure the pendulum is as close to dead-center as possible over the alignment cup on the base of the clock. Then do the 180° halfway pendulum turn, and release. Listen very closely for a very tiny "tick" (caused by the "verge"), and note the amount of pendulum overswing past the "tick" in each direction. The overswing past the "tick" should be the exactly same in both directions. The pendulum on my anniversary clock has 4 balls. I use one of the brass upright supports as a reference point - I just eyeball the overswing using that. This technique works immediately, and my clock is accurate to about 15 seconds a week. That's all there is to it! (my 400 day anniversary clock is a Seth Thomas made around 1978, and has the Kieninger & Obergfell 793 movement).
Thank You,The Best explanation and video on setting the "beat" that I have seen.However,at 2:11 in the video your hand blocked what you did at the top of the movement.When you say "turn this back a little" the viewer can't see what you are actually doing.I assume that you are removing the upper block and turning it.Am I correct ?????
I have four of these clocks and would like a few more. Where on Earth did you find the Counter (Timetrax Model 400)?? Google Searches find anything but this device. Thanks!
I'd be wearing surgical gloves. Would 0W-20 full synthetic motor oil be a suitable lubricant? (Lightest oil I have.) From Goodwill I just bought a little Kundo. Only 6-3/4-inchesurface to.p of glass dome. With itsmaller main spring, is it still 400-day? It r.an hour, then stopped. Ran again a longer period of time, then stopped. Now running 6 days! Funny that everytime I glanced into wife's office to see if still running, the balls were *not moving* !! Luckily they had justopped before turning back the opposite direction.
Jim I love the subject matter of the lesson you are doing, but I cannot see/understand what you are adjusting in order to shorten the distance of the swing in the pendulum. On minute 2:11 you said "I have to turn this back a little bit". Turn back what? Can you please elaborate? And later you are touching the pendulum and magically the swing becomes shorter!!! what are you adjusting? Please help I want to learn. You managed to find a subject that no one has covered on TH-cam!
@@taynancy7870 I think that he actually turned the upper block one turn but I'm only guessing,no one could see what he actually did at the top of the movement
It could be it needs cleaned and the spring cleaned and oiled. I just started working on one and have taken it apart and cleaned and oiled it, replaced the suspension spring and now trying to set the beat. Not my favorite clock to work on so far, had to walk away from it more than once. Good luck on yours.
You covered the clock with your hand as you said adjust like this. Probably didn’t plan to keep it a secret but we don’t know which way you turn it or by how much. The two most critical things, both obscured. Maybe it would have been nice to actually let us know too?
This video is still great for easy explanation of how to set the beat, but this one shows and explains what his hand hid.th-cam.com/video/XctmGI__Fl4/w-d-xo.html
I have a problem child 1 out of 5 Schatz miniatures that won't keep'a going. I can't wait to try this beat setting method of yours! Thanks for posting. Your video is very encouraging.
I guess I didn't do a good job of explaining. I am not trying to set the time, It"s the "beat" that is two different things. If the beat is not set right, the Clock won't run. After you set the beat correctly. then you can set the Time. No it's not hard to set the time, but It takes a good deal of time. That"s why I use the Beat indicator. It makes setting the time more accurate, but still takes a good deal of time. I have had a great deal of these clocks. and repaired at least 50 of them. I learned from Twilligers book, but the way I am trying to explain, came from the 400 day Clock Club bulletins. which is part of the "National association of watch and clock collectors" of which I am a member. If you think these clocks are easy to repair, then you can have a good income repairing them. but trust me, they are not easy. They are a beautiful and interesting time piece, and I hope you will continue to collect them, and maybe join the NAWCC, we need young people. Sorry if I didn't explain it right in the video, I am in my 70"s and and my memory is not what it was. I know I said 480 per min, but its 480 beats per hour.
I have used Terwiliger's "400 day clock repair guide" which describes the method mentioned in the video using a marked "protractor" like piece of paper for setting the beat and spent many hours trying to get it just right. (By the way I love that book and highly recommend it.) The method James describes in the video is way easier, takes about 10 minutes or less!! Without a beat amplifier or stethoscope to assist hearing the tick/tock I found that I could view the escape wheel gear and anchor pallets through the back plate of the clock to see when a pallet transitions from one escape wheel tooth to the other, the mechanism that makes the tick/tock sound. Many clocks have two large holes near the top of the back plate on either side of the pendulum wire for viewing. For those who don't know what he is adjusting it is called the "saddle". It is the small round post where the top end of the pendulum/wire assembly hangs from. Some use a screw in the top of it to secure it and some are just press fit in, it is the saddle (mounting post) that he rotates thus rotating the orientation of the pendulum/wire assembly. (Loosen the top screw, be careful not to rotate the saddle when snugging it back up when you're done. The press fit ones will rotate and rely on their friction to stay put.) Following his instructions rotate the pendulum slowly until the escape wheel releases and hits a pallet (tick), stop right there! Release the pendulum and let it rotate on its own power, it should stop just as the escape wheel turns and an anchor pallet hits another tooth (tock). If the pendulum rotates too far, i.e. beyond the tock, in one direction you turn the saddle slightly in the opposite direction and vice versa. When the beat is set properly the pendulum will swing and stop just at the point when the anchor pallet hits a tooth on the escape wheel, it won't matter which direction it is turning as it should stop just as an anchor pallet hits a tooth. When its in beat with no other issues (like needing oil on all of the pivot locations or a broken main spring) you'll find that that the pendulum will swing, stop on a tooth (tick), then rotate back and stop on a tooth (tock), you can now start the clock normally by rotating the pendulum 180 degrees and releasing it. This method is a great time saver! THANK YOU JAMES!!!!
james bright Hi James, I tried your method because it made perfect sense to me but I didn't have a lot of luck. The clock I'm messing with belonged to my grandmother and my mother had it serviced a few years ago. According to her it has never run properly and I'd like to get it sorted out if I can. The service guys replaced the suspension spring but I have a feeling they have used the wrong one. Is it possible it's too thick? What happens is that I set it up the exact way you describe; perfectly level, even beat etc., but it runs for about 15 minutes and stops. By the way, what kind of oil do you recommend and how do you apply it? For what it's worth, I have repaired, setup and adjusted cuckoo clocks in the past so I have a basic understanding of some of the principles.
The clock (horological) lingo is difficult to follow if you don't know it. To understand this would mean knowing about dead-beat escapements. However, I think you can probably be persuaded to think of it as tic-toc balance. In an ordinary clock, or indeed a watch, the escapement is faster, and this enables one to listen to it as a tune, song, inflexion. Teek-toc Teek-toc or Tic-toke Tic-toke surely give you the idea of when it sounds wrong or out of balance. We need a better balance as in Tic-Tic- / Tic-Tic or indeed Toc-toc / Toc-toc Of course we tend to say Tic-toc because there is often a slightly different nuance between the sounds. What we need is an even length for each word:- Tic-toc Tic-toc Tic-toc. Now that's easier when it's quick. These anniversary clocks however are not quick. The spin of the pendulum is deliberately slow and it measures out greater chunks of time which in turn means less work for the mainspring to do. That's why it lasts a year! "Anniversary!" Got it? Oh why do I bother? That adjustment screw at the top turns the suspension spring slightly back & forth so the Tics & Tocs can be made the same length. Now the over-swing. This will be correct in equal length as the Tics & Tocs become of equal length. It's needed to make sure the pendulum keeps on spinning. Lost energy replacement. Wheew!
ON TOP OF THE CLOCK, IS A FORK,ATTACHED TO THE SUSPENSION WIRE, WITCH MOVES BACK AND FORTH WITH THE BEAT OF THE CLOCK. THE SUSPENSION WIRE IS ATTACHED TO A BLOCK MADE OF BRASS ON THE VERY TOP. THIS BLOCK IS HOLDING THE SUSPENSION WIRE, AND THE BLOCK WILL TURN LEFT OR RIGHT. IT TAKES A LITTLE EFFORT WITH PLIERS TO MOVE IT. SOME OF THESE BLOCKS ARE FRICTION FIT, AND SOME HAVE A SCREW THAT HOLDS THEM TIGHT. YOU MAY GO THE LIBRARY AND LOOK FOR THE 400 DAY CLOCK GUIDE, AND THEY HAVE A PICTURE OF THE BLOCK. TO SET THE TIME FAST OR SLOW, LOOK ON TOP OF THE PENDULUM, YOU WILL SEE + OR - JUST TURN EITHER FAST OR SLOW, BUT ONLY A LITTLE AT A TIME. WAIT 15 MINUTES AND RESET THE TIME.
James,thanks again at 2:11 in your video your hand is blocking the view at the top of the movement.I assume that you turned the upper block but as a viewer you can't really see what you did when you say "turn this back,a little" thanks
Hi, i have a kundo anniversary clock. But it is running fast and gaining time. I have tried to slow it down woth the rotating lever above the pendulum. But it is still going fast even at the slowest setting (i can't make it any slower). Plz help regarding how to fix it
I am really puzzled by your reference to 480 beats / minute. That's 8 beats per sec. ! Surely not? Another thing that puzzles me is how such a slow escapement would not leave the minute hand stationary for a long period. So where is that beat coming from? A sensor looking somewhere?
Chandler Caveney has pointed out that this is 480 beats per HOUR not MINUTE. When I made that entry I was very new to 400 day items. Now I know a lot more and its not all good..... !! There are many novelty clocks that may look pretty but long term accuracy is not their best feature. Be satisfied with the swinging balls! Biggest problem is flutter. Talk to me about that.... !
I have 20 of these clocks , many types....they are interesting but very quirky to say the least...the first rule is they must be absolultely Level ...read that book too..
Hello sir I have kunda Anniversary clock but my dail was no name & no flower how thy i remove the dail just i asking u tell me how thy i remove dail i am waiting ur reply
Hi, i have a kundo anniversary clock. But it is running fast and gaining time. I have tried to slow it down woth the rotating lever above the pendulum. But it is still going fast even at the slowest setting (i can't make it any slower). Plz help regarding how to fix it
LOOK ON TOP OF THE CLOCK WHERE THE SUSPENSION SPRING IS ATTACHED, YOU WILL SEE A BRASS FITTING WITH A SCREW THROUGH IT OR A TAPER PIN THROUGH IT. THIS FITTING CAN BE TURNED LEFT OR RIGHT. IT IS JUST A FRICTION FIT ON SOME, AND ON OTHERS THERE CAN BE A SCREW. THE SCREW IS THE EASIEST, THE FRICTION FIT CAN BE TURNED WITH A PLIER. THEY MAKE A TOOL JUST FOR THIS PURPOSE.
I have a kundo clock. Its been working ok until recently it started to slow down. I tried to adjust the A-R disc but now the pendulum wont continue moving. I get if going but after a few minutes its barely moving again. What can I do to fix this?
I have the same problem. I paid almost $400 to get it completely overhauled and set up 3 weeks ago and the pendulum doesn't move now. The shop owner won't return my calls.
THERE ARE A LOT OF VARIABLES WITH SUSPENSION WIRES, TOO LONG WILL MAKE IT GO SLOW, TOO SHORT WILL MAKE IT GO FAST, IT TOO THICK IT WILL GO FAST, TOO THIN IT WILL GO SLOW. YOU HAVE TO USE THE 400 DAY CLOCK GUIDE TO GET THE RIGHT LENGTH. AND THICKNESS. LIKE IS SAID BEFORE, THESE LOCK WILL RUN FOR 15 MINUTES, WITH JUST STARTING THE PENDULUM TURNING,
I have about 12 anniversary clocks, only 1 of them keeps good time, i think they are out of beat and like you say i have to wind them up to see if the time will return to being correct, they are either too fast or too slow
He is adjusting the top block of the suspension spring. Other videos like from torsion dell th-cam.com/video/XctmGI__Fl4/w-d-xo.html show it since his hand was in the way.
@@insomniacshotrods Thanks for the reply! I actually got my clock running. It was actually my parents anniversary clock that hadn't run in nearly 60 years until I fixed it.
hi - I have an anniversary clock and want to know how to change the time - there doesn't seem to be anyway apart from moving the hands directly - is this right or do I risk damaging the clock?
hi i have 400 day koma clock . been watch yr videos.i have a problem . it run for about 4 to min then stop . put a new suspension springs oil the clock . i think i get to go tick the tonk . 4 balls then over swing still stop help please regards paul
Good morning, Where would I be able to purchase the suspension wire? I purchased this clock Some time ago but I haven't been able to find the suspension where. I would appreciate your help
A NON WORKING 400 DAY CLOCK WILL RUN FOR ALMOST 15 MINUTES WITH JUST STARTING THE BALLS SWINGING. IF YOUR CLOCK ONLY RUNS FOR FIVE MINUTES, THEN SOMETHING IS RUBBING AGAINST THE SUSPENSION SPRING OR THE FORK IS TOO TIGHT AGAINST, VERGE PIN.. JIM
My anniversary clocks run on batteries. Why do some of the pendulums stop rotating? They just spin and spin when I coax it to rotate.....what do you think?
@@bobsquires4521 Alright, well thank you anyway. I'm not about to throw out my 8 "anniversary clocks" - they all work, spin and chime but 2. I despise anything that I have to wind every week.
@@oneitalia2312 The real 400-day clocks only have to be wound once a year minimum. (Don’t throw any of them out - just the battery powered ones. The real anniversary ones are mesmerizing and graceful. Any that run on batteries shouldn’t be kept in the same room. 😂
@@bobsquires4521 I Hush, Bob! I responded to your original post FOUR YEARS AGO!!! Stop posting your nonsense if you can't respond in a timely manner. In my mind you died.
How do you wind the clock? I have one and have tried using the key to wind it, but there is soooo much resistance I'm afraid to keep trying to turn it. It will not budge :( I feel like I must be missing something.. any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated!
Hello. I am 80 from Grenoble France) I have one of this from 1929. Did you have please the email of Jahres Uhren in Germany? I need new string. Regards?
hi i need some help please . i have 400 Anniversary Clock with a bell shape weight . i put the right suspension . that mad run an hour fast . i adjusted to slow. still run an hour fast . put a weak spring 2 size up run an hour slow .put the size down . a lot better still gaining time. swap the main spring with another one still the same . move the folk up to the max. . the beat ok . .what else can i do please
Use the suspension that was a little fast, then take a fine piece of emery cloth and sand the suspension spring while still in the clock, just above the pendulum. by thining it will start to slow.
You can watch the escapement wheel. I tried to do that but its difficult at best. I bought a timetrex model 50 from timesavers years ago and used that, but its still hard to tell if it was the verge clicking or the pendulum hitting on the side of the metal above it, since they sound a like.
I think you meant 480 beats per hour? My Kundo takes 8 beats to advance the minute hand by 1 minute, or 60×8=480 beats to advance the hour hand by one hour.
I know this is an old video. I have two points: 1. I have no idea what his methodology is, although I do understand beat and overawing, it was poorly explained . 2. 480 beats per minute!? I don’t think so. That’s 8 beats a second. That puts it in the realm of a high beat mechanical wristwatch at 28,800 beats per hour, Vs the 21,600 of a standard. mechanical watch. I’m not sure what he thought he was saying, but it’s not true.
hi thanks for your video i have the horolovar 400 day clock repair guide and the book is missing pages 61-70 can you help and send me those pages by Email thanks
I have NO idea what you are doing with your hands at the base of the clock. Your left hand seems to be doing some magic trick that is behind your right hand. Watched this video four time and simple have to say it is terrible waste of TIME. Very poor explanation as I have watched other similar videos and the precentors explain well what they are doing and this is simply slight of hand. Maybe next TIME use some smoke and mirrors and join the magic circle, or film is from above so viewer can see what your doing. One Star!
I have used Terwiliger's "400 day clock repair guide" which describes the method mentioned in the video using a marked "protractor" like piece of paper for setting the beat and spent many hours trying to get it just right. (By the way I love that book and highly recommend it.) The method James describes in the video is way easier, takes about 10 minutes or less!!
Without a beat amplifier or stethoscope to assist hearing the tick/tock I found that I could view the escape wheel gear and anchor pallets through the back plate of the clock to see when a pallet transitions from one escape wheel tooth to the other, the mechanism that makes the tick/tock sound. Many clocks have two large holes near the top of the back plate on either side of the pendulum wire for viewing.
For those who don't know what he is adjusting it is called the "saddle". It is the small round post where the top end of the pendulum/wire assembly hangs from. Some use a screw in the top of it to secure it and some are just press fit in, it is the saddle (mounting post) that he rotates thus rotating the orientation of the pendulum/wire assembly. (Loosen the top screw, be careful not to rotate the saddle when snugging it back up when you're done. The press fit ones will rotate and rely on their friction to stay put.)
Following his instructions rotate the pendulum slowly until the escape wheel releases and hits a pallet (tick), stop right there! Release the pendulum and let it rotate on its own power, it should stop just as the escape wheel turns and an anchor pallet hits another tooth (tock). If the pendulum rotates too far, i.e. beyond the tock, in one direction you turn the saddle slightly in the opposite direction and vice versa. When the beat is set properly the pendulum will swing and stop just at the point when the anchor pallet hits a tooth on the escape wheel, it won't matter which direction it is turning as it should stop just as an anchor pallet hits a tooth. When its in beat with no other issues (like needing oil on all of the pivot locations or a broken main spring) you'll find that that the pendulum will swing, stop on a tooth (tick), then rotate back and stop on a tooth (tock), you can now start the clock normally by rotating the pendulum 180 degrees and releasing it.
This method is a great time saver! THANK YOU JAMES!!!!
The two of you were a great help in getting my clock running right after a move. Thank you ♥
You're welcome, happy to hear back from someone that it helped! 🙂
I have struggled for hours trying to set the beat using a "protractor" scale and a stethoscope listening for the tick tock as described in Terwiliger's 400 Day Clock Repair book, only getting the beat set correctly after a great deal of effort. With this method I can get the beat set in less than 10 minutes! I couldn't be more pleased. Thank you so much James!!!!
IF YOU USE YOUR BRAIN YOU CAN DO IT IN MINUTES.
This is a very helpful video. I recently rescue a Kundo clock from salvage. The main spring is fully wound up but the clock keep stopping. I now realize the tick and tock (the escapement and the suspension spring and fork) must be timed properly so that the main spring can give just a tiny bit of energy to keep the pendulum going. And this video put it in a couldn't be simpler term: Release from "tick" and it twist to "tock" and vice versa by itself.
The Kundo clock have a screw next to the block to lock it. So just loosen the screw and I can twist the "block" by hand.
After I adjusted the beat, I can already feel the clock wants to start itself and start swinging winder and wider, it's amazing.
Thanks, James, for taking the time to share this knowledge. CJ
We have vays of making you tock...
I've just spent several hours fiddling about with one of these clocks in order to get it to work, I wish I had watched your video first! I've now checked the beat as per your instructions, the balls have an even swing either side of the tick and the tock which is good!
This video was so much help! Your directions are very clear, even for someone like me with their first clock of this type. I bought mine at an antique store for $12, then spent $32 for the suspension unit and key, it didn't have the fork or bottom block. I am only getting about 190 degree of rotation but it is running, and actually a little fast, but I will let it run a while like this before I try to regulate it. Thanks so much!
Thanks James, you made it easier to adjust the beat and the pendulum twist. My first one and its been a real challenge for such an easy looking clock lol.
Once you've dialed in the adjustment wheel (mine took about a week to get it right - trial & error), there's a much easier way to regulate the clock. To start out, of course you want to make sure the pendulum is as close to dead-center as possible over the alignment cup on the base of the clock. Then do the 180° halfway pendulum turn, and release. Listen very closely for a very tiny "tick" (caused by the "verge"), and note the amount of pendulum overswing past the "tick" in each direction. The overswing past the "tick" should be the exactly same in both directions. The pendulum on my anniversary clock has 4 balls. I use one of the brass upright supports as a reference point - I just eyeball the overswing using that. This technique works immediately, and my clock is accurate to about 15 seconds a week. That's all there is to it! (my 400 day anniversary clock is a Seth Thomas made around 1978, and has the Kieninger & Obergfell 793 movement).
Thanks that helps me to comprehend this better.☺
How does the K&O 793 differ from other movements? I thoughthathey were all the same.
@@nanaleigh328 you're welcome!
@@robertgift i'm not sure how the 793 differs from the others.
Thank You,The Best explanation and video on setting the "beat" that I have seen.However,at 2:11 in the video your hand blocked what you did at the top of the movement.When you say "turn this back a little" the viewer can't see what you are actually doing.I assume that you are removing the upper block and turning it.Am I correct ?????
I have four of these clocks and would like a few more.
Where on Earth did you find the Counter (Timetrax Model 400)??
Google Searches find anything but this device.
Thanks!
What are yo7 adjusting at the top of the clock? I can not see what you are adjusting.
I haven't touched clock in a month or more, still running. So excited.
I'd be wearing surgical gloves.
Would 0W-20 full synthetic motor oil be a suitable lubricant? (Lightest oil I have.)
From Goodwill I just bought a little Kundo. Only 6-3/4-inchesurface to.p of glass dome. With itsmaller main spring, is it still 400-day?
It r.an hour, then stopped. Ran again a longer period of time, then stopped. Now running 6 days!
Funny that everytime I glanced into wife's office to see if still running, the balls were *not moving* !! Luckily they had justopped before turning back the opposite direction.
Jim I love the subject matter of the lesson you are doing, but I cannot see/understand what you are adjusting in order to shorten the distance of the swing in the pendulum. On minute 2:11 you said "I have to turn this back a little bit". Turn back what? Can you please elaborate? And later you are touching the pendulum and magically the swing becomes shorter!!! what are you adjusting? Please help I want to learn. You managed to find a subject that no one has covered on TH-cam!
Oadrikos, did u find out more?? I also noticed that and like to know what was that magical touch about.
@@taynancy7870 I think that he actually turned the upper block one turn but I'm only guessing,no one could see what he actually did at the top of the movement
Can these clocks be wound too tight? I inherited one and the suspension spring seems to be in good shape, however it won’t stay running.
It could be it needs cleaned and the spring cleaned and oiled. I just started working on one and have taken it apart and cleaned and oiled it, replaced the suspension spring and now trying to set the beat. Not my favorite clock to work on so far, had to walk away from it more than once. Good luck on yours.
480 beats a minute or hour for the counter?Thanks for the video BTW.
You covered the clock with your hand as you said adjust like this. Probably didn’t plan to keep it a secret but we don’t know which way you turn it or by how much. The two most critical things, both obscured. Maybe it would have been nice to actually let us know too?
This video is still great for easy explanation of how to set the beat, but this one shows and explains what his hand hid.th-cam.com/video/XctmGI__Fl4/w-d-xo.html
what did you adjust up on top? I know the top block holder can be adjusted.
Really like these clocks Thankyou
I have a problem child 1 out of 5 Schatz miniatures that won't keep'a going. I can't wait to try this beat setting method of yours! Thanks for posting. Your video is very encouraging.
Worked like a charm! It was off beat for sure. The pendulum arc swing is greater now as well. Thanks!
I guess I didn't do a good job of explaining. I am not trying to set the time, It"s the "beat" that is two different things. If the beat is not set right, the Clock won't run. After you set the beat correctly. then you can set the Time. No it's not hard to set the time, but It takes a good deal of time. That"s why I use the Beat indicator. It makes setting the time more accurate, but still takes a good deal of time. I have had a great deal of these clocks. and repaired at least 50 of them. I learned from Twilligers book, but the way I am trying to explain, came from the 400 day Clock Club bulletins. which is part of the "National association of
watch and clock collectors" of which I am a member. If you think these clocks are easy to repair, then you can have a good income repairing them. but trust me, they are not easy. They are a beautiful and interesting time piece, and I hope you will continue to collect them, and maybe join the NAWCC, we need young people.
Sorry if I didn't explain it right in the video, I am in my 70"s and and my memory is not what it was. I know I said 480 per min, but its 480 beats per hour.
I have used Terwiliger's "400 day clock repair guide" which describes the method mentioned in the video using a marked "protractor" like piece of paper for setting the beat and spent many hours trying to get it just right. (By the way I love that book and highly recommend it.) The method James describes in the video is way easier, takes about 10 minutes or less!!
Without a beat amplifier or stethoscope to assist hearing the tick/tock I found that I could view the escape wheel gear and anchor pallets through the back plate of the clock to see when a pallet transitions from one escape wheel tooth to the other, the mechanism that makes the tick/tock sound. Many clocks have two large holes near the top of the back plate on either side of the pendulum wire for viewing.
For those who don't know what he is adjusting it is called the "saddle". It is the small round post where the top end of the pendulum/wire assembly hangs from. Some use a screw in the top of it to secure it and some are just press fit in, it is the saddle (mounting post) that he rotates thus rotating the orientation of the pendulum/wire assembly. (Loosen the top screw, be careful not to rotate the saddle when snugging it back up when you're done. The press fit ones will rotate and rely on their friction to stay put.)
Following his instructions rotate the pendulum slowly until the escape wheel releases and hits a pallet (tick), stop right there! Release the pendulum and let it rotate on its own power, it should stop just as the escape wheel turns and an anchor pallet hits another tooth (tock). If the pendulum rotates too far, i.e. beyond the tock, in one direction you turn the saddle slightly in the opposite direction and vice versa. When the beat is set properly the pendulum will swing and stop just at the point when the anchor pallet hits a tooth on the escape wheel, it won't matter which direction it is turning as it should stop just as an anchor pallet hits a tooth. When its in beat with no other issues (like needing oil on all of the pivot locations or a broken main spring) you'll find that that the pendulum will swing, stop on a tooth (tick), then rotate back and stop on a tooth (tock), you can now start the clock normally by rotating the pendulum 180 degrees and releasing it.
This method is a great time saver! THANK YOU JAMES!!!!
james bright Hi James, I tried your method because it made perfect sense to me but I didn't have a lot of luck. The clock I'm messing with belonged to my grandmother and my mother had it serviced a few years ago. According to her it has never run properly and I'd like to get it sorted out if I can. The service guys replaced the suspension spring but I have a feeling they have used the wrong one. Is it possible it's too thick? What happens is that I set it up the exact way you describe; perfectly level, even beat etc., but it runs for about 15 minutes and stops. By the way, what kind of oil do you recommend and how do you apply it? For what it's worth, I have repaired, setup and adjusted cuckoo clocks in the past so I have a basic understanding of some of the principles.
The clock (horological) lingo is difficult to follow if you don't know it. To understand this would mean knowing about dead-beat escapements. However, I think you can probably be persuaded to think of it as tic-toc balance.
In an ordinary clock, or indeed a watch, the escapement is faster, and this enables one to listen to it as a tune, song, inflexion. Teek-toc Teek-toc or Tic-toke Tic-toke surely give you the idea of when it sounds wrong or out of balance.
We need a better balance as in Tic-Tic- / Tic-Tic or indeed Toc-toc / Toc-toc Of course we tend to say Tic-toc because there is often a slightly different nuance between the sounds. What we need is an even length for each word:- Tic-toc Tic-toc Tic-toc. Now that's easier when it's quick. These anniversary clocks however are not quick. The spin of the pendulum is deliberately slow and it measures out greater chunks of time which in turn means less work for the mainspring to do. That's why it lasts a year! "Anniversary!" Got it? Oh why do I bother?
That adjustment screw at the top turns the suspension spring slightly back & forth so the Tics & Tocs can be made the same length.
Now the over-swing. This will be correct in equal length as the Tics & Tocs become of equal length. It's needed to make sure the pendulum keeps on spinning. Lost energy replacement. Wheew!
The buzz you hear is the amplifier. any time you get close to the pickup it makes the noise.
Is the publication 'Torsion Times' still in existence please? Possibly by John Hubby.
Do you move the top block toward the over swing or away from it
I had mine for 2 months and keeping perfect time. Can you do a video on oiling these guys please
The horolovar book says don’t oil the train at all
ON TOP OF THE CLOCK, IS A FORK,ATTACHED TO THE SUSPENSION WIRE, WITCH MOVES BACK AND FORTH WITH THE BEAT OF THE CLOCK. THE SUSPENSION WIRE IS ATTACHED TO A BLOCK MADE OF BRASS ON THE VERY TOP. THIS BLOCK IS HOLDING THE SUSPENSION WIRE, AND THE BLOCK WILL TURN LEFT OR RIGHT. IT TAKES A LITTLE EFFORT WITH PLIERS TO MOVE IT. SOME OF THESE BLOCKS ARE FRICTION FIT, AND SOME HAVE A SCREW THAT HOLDS THEM TIGHT. YOU MAY GO THE LIBRARY AND LOOK FOR THE 400 DAY CLOCK GUIDE, AND THEY HAVE A PICTURE OF THE BLOCK. TO SET THE TIME FAST OR SLOW, LOOK ON TOP OF THE PENDULUM, YOU WILL SEE + OR - JUST TURN EITHER FAST OR SLOW, BUT ONLY A LITTLE AT A TIME. WAIT 15 MINUTES AND RESET THE TIME.
James,thanks again at 2:11 in your video your hand is blocking the view at the top of the movement.I assume that you turned the upper block but as a viewer you can't really see what you did when you say "turn this back,a little" thanks
Hi, i have a kundo anniversary clock. But it is running fast and gaining time. I have tried to slow it down woth the rotating lever above the pendulum. But it is still going fast even at the slowest setting (i can't make it any slower). Plz help regarding how to fix it
thanks for info, it makes more sense than other methods, I 've heard.
I am really puzzled by your reference to 480 beats / minute. That's 8 beats per sec. ! Surely not? Another thing that puzzles me is how such a slow escapement would not leave the minute hand stationary for a long period. So where is that beat coming from? A sensor looking somewhere?
Chandler Caveney has pointed out that this is 480 beats per HOUR not MINUTE. When I made that entry I was very new to 400 day items. Now I know a lot more and its not all good..... !! There are many novelty clocks that may look pretty but long term accuracy is not their best feature. Be satisfied with the swinging balls! Biggest problem is flutter. Talk to me about that.... !
I have 20 of these clocks , many types....they are interesting but very quirky to say the least...the first rule is they must be absolultely Level ...read that book too..
Hello sir I have kunda Anniversary clock but my dail was no name & no flower how thy i remove the dail just i asking u tell me how thy i remove dail i am waiting ur reply
Hi, i have a kundo anniversary clock. But it is running fast and gaining time. I have tried to slow it down woth the rotating lever above the pendulum. But it is still going fast even at the slowest setting (i can't make it any slower). Plz help regarding how to fix it
He got my clock running after a fifty-year struggle.
FIFTY YEARS - doesn't leave much time for cooking!
LOOK ON TOP OF THE CLOCK WHERE THE SUSPENSION SPRING IS ATTACHED, YOU WILL SEE A BRASS FITTING WITH A SCREW THROUGH IT OR A TAPER PIN THROUGH IT. THIS FITTING CAN BE TURNED LEFT OR RIGHT. IT IS JUST A FRICTION FIT ON SOME, AND ON OTHERS THERE CAN BE A SCREW. THE SCREW IS THE EASIEST, THE FRICTION FIT CAN BE TURNED WITH A PLIER. THEY MAKE A TOOL JUST FOR THIS PURPOSE.
I notice u set the fine tune of the beat by fiddling with the pendulum balls. ??? please explain a bit.
I have a kundo clock. Its been working ok until recently it started to slow down. I tried to adjust the A-R disc but now the pendulum wont continue moving. I get if going but after a few minutes its barely moving again. What can I do to fix this?
I have the same problem. I paid almost $400 to get it completely overhauled and set up 3 weeks ago and the pendulum doesn't move now. The shop owner won't return my calls.
Where can one get a suspension wire for these clocks? I called every clock repair shop in Brooklyn, NY, and nobody wants to touch them.
the video does not show the point at the top where you adjust the beat. What exact part is needed to adjust???You just say "turn it back a bit".
Darn, he knows what he is talking about ........I got my clock running !
...YA THINK SO?!
Mine is a Koma set. My problem is the click is not audible.
Buy the book "400 day clock repair " by Charles Terwilliger. It is loaded with everything you need to know and more!!!
THERE ARE A LOT OF VARIABLES WITH SUSPENSION WIRES, TOO LONG WILL MAKE IT GO SLOW, TOO SHORT WILL MAKE IT GO FAST, IT TOO THICK IT WILL GO FAST, TOO THIN IT WILL GO SLOW. YOU HAVE TO USE THE 400 DAY CLOCK GUIDE TO GET THE RIGHT LENGTH. AND THICKNESS. LIKE IS SAID BEFORE, THESE LOCK WILL RUN FOR 15 MINUTES, WITH JUST STARTING THE PENDULUM TURNING,
I have about 12 anniversary clocks, only 1 of them keeps good time, i think they are out of beat and like you say i have to wind them up to see if the time will return to being correct, they are either too fast or too slow
THAT IS THE PROPER WAY TO SET THE TIME
Hi to have a Schatz 400 day clock its missing the cup at the base of the pendulum are you able to help with one please.
What are you actually tweaking to dial it in? I understand the clicks but not what you're adjusting.
He is adjusting the top block of the suspension spring. Other videos like from torsion dell th-cam.com/video/XctmGI__Fl4/w-d-xo.html show it since his hand was in the way.
@@insomniacshotrods Thanks for the reply! I actually got my clock running. It was actually my parents anniversary clock that hadn't run in nearly 60 years until I fixed it.
hi - I have an anniversary clock and want to know how to change the time - there doesn't seem to be anyway apart from moving the hands directly - is this right or do I risk damaging the clock?
I have a clock very similar to this, it has no markings exept for made in Germany does your have any markings?
thanks for all. I just send to a pro for changing spring principal.
I would love to join the 400 day clock club, how can I do it???
Very good video. Thank you.
hi i have 400 day koma clock . been watch yr videos.i have a problem . it run for about 4 to min then stop . put a new suspension springs oil the clock . i think i get to go tick the tonk . 4 balls then over swing still stop help please regards paul
Mine is running fast, but unsure how to adjust the beat.
Mine is quite a bit older than this one, but hoping the adjustment for these may be the same.
There should be a dial above the 4 balls that you adjust with F and S on it or above it. You would want to rotate it to the S side.
very good video everything you show is on the money.
Good morning,
Where would I be able to purchase the suspension wire? I purchased this clock Some time ago but I haven't been able to find the suspension where.
I would appreciate your help
Got mine off ebay. Hopefully youve found one by now.
THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT MAKES OF THIS CLOCK. YOU CAN BUY A BOOK AND IT WILL TELL YOU WHERE AND WHEN IT WAS MADE.
Hi, I just bought a clock and how can I set the time, how can I move the hands and don't damage the clock. thanks. Paulo - London-uk
You can turn the minute arm only, the hour arm moves automatically with the minute arm
A NON WORKING 400 DAY CLOCK WILL RUN FOR ALMOST 15 MINUTES WITH JUST STARTING THE BALLS SWINGING. IF YOUR CLOCK ONLY RUNS FOR FIVE MINUTES, THEN SOMETHING IS RUBBING AGAINST THE SUSPENSION SPRING OR THE FORK IS TOO TIGHT AGAINST, VERGE PIN.. JIM
what are you adjusting?
Do these clocks make any noise? How do you wind them up?
Yes but they're not very loud
I have never worked on Battery Clocks, so I can't give you any advice. Jim
I need a Suspension wire for a Schatz model 53. Clock. Can you tell me where
ebay.
What are you adjusting up top?
I'm trying to figure that out myself.I think he turned the upper block but don't know for sure because his hand blocked the view
How do you adjust the clock if it is running too slow or too fast? Thanks, Nancy Nowak
@@dperry428 That is a beautiful description.
My anniversary clocks run on batteries. Why do some of the pendulums stop rotating? They just spin and spin when I coax it to rotate.....what do you think?
any type of 'anniversary clock' that runs on a battery - AIN'T AN ANNIVERSARY CLOCK. Throw it out and get a real one - they're so fine.
@@bobsquires4521 Alright, well thank you anyway. I'm not about to throw out my 8 "anniversary clocks" - they all work, spin and chime but 2. I despise anything that I have to wind every week.
@@oneitalia2312 The real 400-day clocks only have to be wound once a year minimum. (Don’t throw any of them out - just the battery powered ones. The real anniversary ones are mesmerizing and graceful. Any that run on batteries shouldn’t be kept in the same room. 😂
@@bobsquires4521 I Hush, Bob! I responded to your original post FOUR YEARS AGO!!! Stop posting your nonsense if you can't respond in a timely manner. In my mind you died.
How do you wind the clock? I have one and have tried using the key to wind it, but there is soooo much resistance I'm afraid to keep trying to turn it. It will not budge :( I feel like I must be missing something.. any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated!
That means it is already fully wound.
Wish I could see what you're doing. Hands in the way
Hello. I am 80 from Grenoble France) I have one of this from 1929. Did you have please the email of Jahres Uhren in Germany? I need new string. Regards?
ebay would have one.
Very useful. Thanks!
My clock overshoots by a lot one direction. But the other way it barely clicks. And the clock keeps slowing down
What does 400 day mean in these clocks?
If you wind it fully, you shouldn't have to again for 400 days. Mine goes about 380, but I'm a little leery about overwinding.
THESE CLOCKS REQUIRE VERY LITTLE OIL, IF YOUR CLOCK IS RUNNING AND KEEPING TIME I WOULD LEAVE IT ALONE.
CORRECT , DONT TOUCH IN WATCHES THAT KEEP TIME
hi i need some help please . i have 400 Anniversary Clock with a bell shape weight . i put the right suspension . that mad run an hour fast . i adjusted to slow. still run an hour fast . put a weak spring 2 size up run an hour slow .put the size down . a lot better still gaining time. swap the main spring with another one still the same . move the folk up to the max. . the beat ok . .what else can i do please
Use the suspension that was a little fast, then take a fine piece of emery cloth and sand the suspension spring while still in the clock, just above the pendulum. by thining it will start to slow.
@@jimbo7630 ok i try it.i have only one spring. thank you
The video is worthless to me as you do not explain or show what you are adjusting. You’ve been asked this question 3 or 4 times.
Are you sure its 480 bear per MINUTE ? Or is it hour? Cause the pendulum is moving very slow for that many beats???
Per Hour is much more likely.
Without this equipment for hearing the click how can it be done .
You can watch the escapement wheel. I tried to do that but its difficult at best. I bought a timetrex model 50 from timesavers years ago and used that, but its still hard to tell if it was the verge clicking or the pendulum hitting on the side of the metal above it, since they sound a like.
You said 480 beats per minute twice on your video! I kinda thought you ment an hour
I think you meant 480 beats per hour? My Kundo takes 8 beats to advance the minute hand by 1 minute, or 60×8=480 beats to advance the hour hand by one hour.
I know this is an old video. I have two points: 1. I have no idea what his methodology is, although I do understand beat and overawing, it was poorly explained . 2. 480 beats per minute!? I don’t think so. That’s 8 beats a second. That puts it in the realm of a high beat mechanical wristwatch at 28,800 beats per hour, Vs the 21,600 of a standard. mechanical watch. I’m not sure what he thought he was saying, but it’s not true.
can you tell me the value of my clock or where I can find out
These clocks are fun, but worth fifty bucks at best. I have paid literally $3-$39 for them just to have spares.
where do i get on of these timetrax beat machines
just go on line and type "Timetrax" and you should find it.
the weight look like bells but they have a bottom
Dude, your hands are in the way.
hi
thanks for your video
i have the horolovar 400 day clock repair guide and the book is missing pages 61-70
can you help and send me those pages by Email
thanks
I HAVE NO WAY TO COPY, I TRIED TAKING A PICTURE OF THE PAGES, BUT THEY DID NOT COME OUT USABLE. I DON'T HAVE A SCANNER. SORRY JIM
Rerecord video without the buzzing light ballast
Sem esperiemca é difícil
thanks
It's 480 per hour, i.e., 7.5 seconds per beat.
I have NO idea what you are doing with your hands at the base of the clock. Your left hand seems to be doing some magic trick that is behind your right hand. Watched this video four time and simple have to say it is terrible waste of TIME. Very poor explanation as I have watched other similar videos and the precentors explain well what they are doing and this is simply slight of hand. Maybe next TIME use some smoke and mirrors and join the magic circle, or film is from above so viewer can see what your doing. One Star!
sounds like it needs cleaned and a new main spring.