I literally implement all the 10 rules he mentioned in this video. That is the good thing. The bad things is that I needed 10 years of cycling to learn all of these things on my own mistakes. I wish I have seen this video waaaaaaaay before. :)
setting up the cleat towards the back was the biggest gamechanger for me. before I did that I got severe foot pain after 60-80km. now I can comfortably ride on
I put my cleat to the front. My tire rubs on the rear setting. Ive done 50mi/80km with no pain, i regularly bike 40mi/64km. My suggestion would be to grab your shoe and try to bend the sole length wise. If the sole bows thats probably your problem. Also all shoes are different so it may be a fitment thing? I like a shoe that has room in the toe box, i grew up in sandals. I sprawl my toes like a cat for extra traction out of habit. (Hobbit got jukes!) Even before i switched to clipless i would use soloman hiking shoes with an internal frame in the shoe. They have minimal flex behind the ball of the foot. I was only up to 30mi/48km rides in those shoes.
James, for your next Q&A, a Q: given the improvements in bikefitting technology/techniques, if someone had a good, proficient fit done some years back (15 years in my case), would there be any good reason to get another fit done now, if still in good health and still comfortable on the bike for long distances?
Completely agree about the use of MTB/gravel pedals for the road. I have been telling my new-to-bike customers this for years for the reasons you state and also because on club rides I see inexperienced riders making themselves vulnerable and unstable while fumbling to engage SPD-R’s when moving off at junctions.
thanks I am glad I followed your tip 3 without knowing , I am in between sizes( L/XL) for a Scott gravel addict only because of my arm length ...ordered the L waiting for it now 🤞
Another adept video. Thank you. Speaking as a 62 year old, broken down, short, stocky man, why is it again that I should consider an endurance bike ?? Lol Loved that bit.
Gained even more advice thanks James. At 5' 10 " I for years opted for a 54cm but then someone told me if I went for a 56cm I would be more upright, So I built one up with a 90mm stem has you mentioned and it does seem more comfortable. I did have a touring bike made for me and it is a 55cm which is also ok. I am now on a big learning curve that's for sure.
Saddle height 15mm lower than your road bike height , mtb stems are always short and you only have one hand position so just go by feel with stem and bar lengths
@@Cycle.every.day. saddle 15mm lower. What? Why? My saddles are same height across my road, MTB and gravel bikes (give or take a few mm for different pedal system stack height). My reach on my gravel bike is very slightly shorter than road, but not by much, thanks to the bars being a smidge higher. My MTB is fair bit shorter, but the bar width counters that to some degree.
Hi James, I've been watching your content on bike fitting first of all on Cade and now on your own channel, this year, for the first time in a few years, my bikes feel comfortable again. I underwent 2 ankle fusion operations a few years ago (the first didn't work) I thought this procedure would only affect my saddle hight, it didn't! It affected absolutely everything. It's cost me a fortune in shoes, cycling and normal shoes, saddles, handlebars but as mentioned, following your tips I've now got all my bikes dialled in. Thanks very much and keep them coming! 👍
All around solid advice. At least four of those points, I have personally experienced. One under-appreciated fit strategy is to buy the smaller frame (if between two sizes) and flip over the stem so that it gives you +2cm of rise without addition of spacers. With a modest 1cm stack of spacers, you'll most likely easily get enough stack for a comfortable reach in an endurance fit. Even though the contact points for two different bikes can be made exactly the same by changing seat posts or stems, these two bikes will not handle the same. The smaller frame with a steering axis closer to the body will feel like the bike is underneath you. The larger frame will feel like you're driving a carriage or a bus. You won't be able to lean into the corner as confidently. So it is very important to get the frame size right, and not dwell over the colour, brand or material or even a set of carbon wheels. Note also, if you're new to cycling, your perception of how the bike feels will change as you become fitter, your proprioception changes and your riding preferences change. To test the saddle height method suggested here, I just measured my saddle height, and sure enough, the inseam-12cm rule was within 4mm of my current saddle height!!
So, I followed the "slam the cleat back" method. I had foot pain for years, finally did the "old fashioned" centre line method, put the cleats about 1/4 of an inch further forward, BOOM, can put so much power down and ride for HOURS now without foot pain!
Regarding the industry selling consumers a bike that is too big, my first proper road bike was a Trek Emonda 56cm and it was a nightmare trying to get anywhere close to being comfortable. I’m 5’ 9” with a ~31” inseam. Based on that simple measurement, I opted for a Poseidon X Ambition gravel bike in their “small” size because of the 30.5” standover specification. Based on their geometry, that’s a 49cm frame and it is, quite literally, perfect for me. The only tweaks I’ve made are saddle height and fore-aft movement. The bars are a bit wide, but that’s something to worry about during the off season. Thanks for the tips, James!
@@wiktormarcinkowski-fotogra8392 a bikefit is a bikefit as a bikefit should be. The main difference on a mtb is the bars. But the manufacturers tend to put slightly less reach on a mtb.
I feel like a bikefit is less critical than bike fitters might make out. Im not saying getting one isnt good. Im saying both stores i went to to buy my last road bike were willing to do bikefits for free, after the bike was purchased. The 1st one charged $150 but then took the cost off a bike. But while i was there looking at the BMC's trying to decide a size. They just put me on some bikes and the 58 had enough seat post coming out while hitting all the paramaters. But the BMC I wanted wont be ready until February... So i moved to my backup option, Specialized. I tried the 56 (all they had in the roubaix) and it felt okay, but my knees came a little close to the bars. I found a 58 at another location took it for a spin and just knew it was me. Every Specialized bike purchased from specialized includes a free bike fit within 45 days of purchase. I fit myself using online guides. I still intend on going in for my bike fit. I need to schedule it soon, im close to 45 days.
Tip #8 was very insightful though obvious in hindsight. Couldn't figure out why my inseam measurements suggested a bike that ended being too small. Because I have US size 13 feet... 😅
Get an externally routed bike, or at least bike without an integrated stem and without internal routing through the headset. It's so important to be able to play around with stack height, handlebar tilt, handle bars in general, and shifter location. When you route this stuff internally, you have far less cable slack to play around with, not to mention you can't swap out those components without cutting and recabling/hosing the cockpit. If you can adjust the front of the bike, you can play around with a lot of bike fit measurements, especially reach at the hoods and drops.
Most of the time i hear aero bars with built in stems it coincides with a warning about knowing your bike fit 1st as nothing can be changed. I dont have this issue with my specialized roubaix. The suspension stem wont allow cables to pass, like Gandalf holding back the Balrog!
Nice vid,James and great advice about sizing down. I was lucky that my LBS was very knowledgable when it came to bike fits and discouraged me from buying the bike I originally wanted (which was the smallest the manufacturer made) but it was still too big for me. Eventually got another make with a frame size that fitted me better ( from 48 cm to 46cm), no regrets at all. 350 miles in, it fits me so much better than my other bikes.
Great vid again with a lot of logical sense spoken. Had to laugh when you recommended mtb pedals that I use on my road bike to much ridicule of the local not so young boy racers!!😅😅😅😅. Still wanting to learn about the advantages and disadvantages of the different geometries of frame. TIA.
Trouble with slamming the cleats back, especially on Shimano's one size up(or two sizes-might need sealskinz in there plus thermal socks) is you then have a collision course with the front wheel on toe overlap....(Got a pair of Lake MXZ176 in the post from Sigma, hopefully in the true 44 I am they'll fit properly!)
So glad you recommended spd pedals. I just cannot wrap my head around a shoe that you either cant walk in or makes you look like a duck. I would rather wear clipless road flippers (fictitious seal team 6 cycling shoes) I went spd on my road bike. The salesman looked at me funny and questioned my decision. I just told him i mtb too, then he nodded in agreement... I run flat pedals on my mtb and dont intend to clip in on it.
Another option is to buy a book about bike fitting and testing things out at home. Sure it's not as good as getting a fit by a professional, but when your flexibility, weight, fitness, equipment, riding conditions, mental state and preferences etc changes throughout the year, it seems like one way to go. Would you be so kind as to recommend any books about bike fitting?
Love this channel!!! Bike fit question. I want a Pinarello X5. Based on my current bike and measurements I am between a 545 and 530. I have ridden both sizes in an X3 model and per Pinarello website the geometry is VERY close. The 530 feels better. My question is, since I can’t test ride an X5 would it be proper protocol to go in my bike shop and ask them to set up the Retul to both 530 and 545 geometries from the X5 Pinarello site to make sure it feels close to the size 530 X3? …and yes I am trying to keep from having to do a full blown initial fit because I know it’s between these two sizes and in my heart I think the 530 is the size I need. Has anyone ever come at a fit this way and how did it work out? I’m 5’10” with a 34” inseam. Leg’s, torso and arms are pretty normal-ish. I’m on a M/L defy advanced and I’m too stretched out. Thanks!
With the cleat position tio, I done it but I had huge "feet burn" :/ so I made the adjustment with measuring the "bony bits" on the sides and putting the cleats there, no paint then or numbness in the toes.
This is a wonderful video for those of us who don't have access to a good bike fitting vendor. I've been riding for a long time on a variety of bikes and have a pretty good idea of what is comfortable and lets me bike 100km a day for several days on tour without discomfort, but I still picked up a tip or tow. This is good, as I have a new bike coming in (and yes, it's a size smaller than recommended by the manufacturer).
Vendor? They arent the perfume vendor at the mall. They provide a service. Theres one here by me. I forget the name of the machine they use, but you cant buy it from them, that would make you their competition! The fit here runs $350-$500 and the machine can replicate any bike or inform you what bikes would fit best. Im getting a free fit from specialized (comes with the bike) i havent even gone yet, i just did my own fit. I had numb johnson syndrome for a bit but fiddled with my tilt until it stopped getting numb. I dont love the seat. I like riding with no hands quite a bit and the seat either wants to push me forward while riding no hands or make my manhood numb. Im thinking about the expensive fit, but probably won't do it. Definetly not anytime soon. If i were to, it would coincide with a new seat most likley. Right now im gearing up on cycling clothes.
The best bike adjustment I've made so far is to point my saddle down slightly - in conjunction with sliding it back on the rails a bit - which somehow helped me solve both numb hands and numb crotch all in one fell swoop. Not sure how but not complaining
10 mistakes of bikefitting is not a breif summary of bikefitting. Aka not a synopsis, still good info though. As expected from an industry professional.
Went to buy a gravel bike before they existed, was shown in endurance bike, but loved the handling of the racing bike and instead bought that, sold it and bought a gravel bike, but now looking for an endurance bike. One thing I got right from the start was the SPD pedals
I wanted a road bike in 2022. When looking into things i found out gravel bikes had become a thing. My inner bmx'er and mountain biker began to gush over the possibilities. I began saving and researching. Then in 2023 I rolled my truck in a freeway collision and broke my back... after 6 months of bedrest i had gained 40lbs and lost what felt like 20lbs of muscle. Que the long road to recovery... im still carrying 20 extra lbs. I dove in hard on my mtb once my legs could handle traversing staircases with regularity. I then began thinking about that drop bar bike again. Only i came to a different conclusion this time around. I already had a mtb, it is plenty capable off road. What i really wanted was a road machine that was so overly confident i felt comfortable off road. Gravel bikes had also morphed into offroad beasts chasing mountainbikes. With 45mm basically the norm and 50mm fairly common, various suspension options, and slackened stances for bombing downhills over rocky terrain. So i decided to move into a more allroad/cyclo-cross realm, but with a gravelesque bikefit. This is the modern endurance bike as i see it. Initially i was all over the BMC roadmachine. The new models can fit 40mm and have true road geometry (wheelbase, chainstay, front center) But the bike wouldnt be ready until February, also i have manufacturing concerns (check mapdec cycleworks going over a BMC). So i went with a specialized roubaix, also an endurance bike, also fits 40mm. Very similar geometry as the BMC. Plus it has front suspension and built in compliance similar to the BMC. Im very happy i chose an endurance bike. Its been a long time coming. Im running 40mm pirelli gravel h tires. My main concern is the piles of sand that build up on my regular route and these tires look fairly similar to a beach cruiser tred. Ive ridden through a few piles already, ezpz. Ive done minimal gravel riding since getting the bike. Its only been a month. Im also moving to the mountains, so im sure ill get me some. The mtb might even get the dust knocked off it!
@@onebighoffy you did well. Run them with lower pressure and you can get a big enough contact patch to ride over or through sand at 40 mm and there’s plenty of tires in that 40 mm range with some tread on the side and slick in the center
Hi! When do you know whether the saddle is too high/low, or you should move the saddle forward/backwards. Currently struggling finding the middle ground here...
Question for the next Q/A: Should the bike shoe industry switch over to the Mondo Point size system like in ski boots. Length of the foot instead of a random number that can „run small or big“
Having sizing information in millimetres is essential to sanity check what some manufacturers pass off as 'standard' Euro or US sizing. Some shoe brands, such as Lake, provide size information in millimetres alongside the Euro size. Their sizing guide is very good and should allow most people to purchase a shoe that fits well. The challenge with Lake is paying attention to the description so you know which shoe is made with which last / sole shape.
@@joules2936 I had to check my Lakes and indeed they have written a mm range in them. My point was more on replacing the random shoe sizing system by something that really represents a real measurement. Imagine we had size 13 to 17 handlebars where the numbers mean a different thing on every manufacturer. (stupid enough that Deda (which I have on one of my bikes so no need to defend them) measures differently to anyone else.
@@chrisridesbicycles your suggestion goes for shoe sizing in general. I think Japanese sizing uses mm (may have the nationality wrong, but defo seen something on the end of a shoe box that had various measurement types listed).
I would happily get a bike fit… the only issue it a long trek in miles to get to one , the bike industry has lost too many independent shops that did just this……
i rely wish i hade the founds and the time to do a full fit with you. I just can't get rid of my knee problems. I kind of think i know what i need to do (shorter kranks and and insoles with archsuport)
HI James, love the new channel! What is your take on the Argon 18 bikes with their 3D top cap fit system? Seems like a good solution and their Dark Matter gravel and Krypton road bikes seem to have good numbers for my little knowledge.. Thanks!
Any tips for more upright geometries (touring bikes, 'grandma bikes', etc)? And for the people who commute but are not aiming to go very fast, any tips for those who dress for the destination and not the ride (mostly saddle choice)?
I am planning to upgrade my pedals to a clipless system (probably a pair of Look road pedals) soon. When I bought my bike, I got a fit with my flat pedals and sneakers. When I switch the pedals and shoes, should I lower my saddle height? Also, when I lower my saddle, will I have to change the seat position (forward or backward)?
Do you think fitters need to make a more beginner friendly level of service in order to accommodate your suggestion of "fit first buy later"? Fitters in my area offer their services starting at 300 USD which would be a hard to justify cost when purchasing a claris level bike.
Maybe an obvious question, but if you adjust the reach of the brake lever, will there still generally be enough clearance to brake fully before the levers hit the drops?
Another great video James, if I wasn't on the other side of the planet I'd pay a visit. I am reasonably comfortable in my fit but want to try moving my cleats back. Do you have a starting suggestion in terms of mm of cleat aft and then mm of seat down? Would I also need to consider moving seat back a little given coming down in height is effectively bringin the saddle forward? I supposed it depends on the how much it comes down. I think I can move the cleats back 22 or 23mm.
When I moved my cleats back I simply moved my saddle way lower, like 4 cm. I went on a test ride, where I moved the saddle up by ~5 mm every 10-15 minutes. At first it feels better and better, at some point it starts feeling good, and then you start to feel that you're loosing control at the bottom of the stroke, pedaling isn't as smooth. At this point, lower the saddle 5 mm back to the last smooth feeling height and it should be pretty good.
Great tips! Thanks a lot. I have a question regarding bike fit. Do you think I should change my saddle position/angle if I will be riding up a 14% average climb of 8 km for a TT? Or should I be riding the same position as I would on flat roads or descents?
Well here's my 2 cents. 14% is 8 degrees, so on this climb your "leveled" saddle is pointing up like crazy and your seat tube angle goes from ~73 to ~65 degrees, basically you are kicked backward. To bring you back closer to a neutral position you would set up your position more forward : saddle forward on the rails and pointing down, and also a longer stem if your current reach is correct. I don't know how the effective saddle height will behave but I'm pretty sure it will also have to change. On flatter training rides this would put way too much load on your hands and shoulders, so there's a happy middleground to find.
I really love your content James, but you're often mentioning lowering saddle height and that it's not going to cause any major problems if it's low. Maybe it's me but i've recently had a bikefit (2nd one unfortunately), and the fitter increased my sadle by a lot (2.4cm). Previously i was running 74.6cm and now it's 77cm (87cm insteam, 172.5mm crank, 45.5 Lake MX242). The reason why is because i was having a lot of back thigh muscle pain (apparently sth called "right biceps femoris") and the reason was "not fully extending the leg that is a little shorter". First of all, i was surprised that my leg is shorter because i couldn't tell by either looking or walking, secondly that the reason seamed good enough since the pain was only in 1 leg. The problem is that even after rising saddle sometimes it still hurts during longer and harder efforts (but not as much as before), and i cannot rise saddle anymore because it starts affecting my pedaling smoothness and the control at the bottom of the stroke. But getting back to what you were implying in the other videos, getting saddle lower than it suppose to be might cause problems as much as getting it higher, just different kind of problems. Unless it's not related to the saddle height completely and it was just coincident that it helped a little.
Lake MX238 / MX242 check out our website - we offer a full shoe fitting service to ensure this is the right shoe for you, anything else is utter guess work
Hi James. I know you mean well, but as someone who used to have a very irregular monthly cycle, not wearing underwear wasn't an option. For me and many others I've cycled with. Though pads are supposed to be antimicrobial, blood and other bodily fluids are tricky to completely wash out every time. Stains and a residue build up. Really embarrassing if you house share and leave them out to dry and if not completely dry, you risk a nasty UTI. I'd rather replace cheap string knickers than expensive shorts. Just something to be aware of for some of your clients.
I wasn’t joking. I’m on a medium Giant Defy, with all the spacers beneath the stem. If I went to a small, I’d lose 17mm stack and I obviously can’t add another 15mm of spacers. If I went up a size to M/L, I could get an extra 19mm of stack, for only 4mm more reach which is easily dealt with a shorter stem. Maybe I’m missing something?
@@owainstravels3381 not sure how to answer that other than going to a bike shop that has that size and giving it a try or getting a bike fit with a fitter who has a database of bikes to match. I realize that there isn’t one perfect way to figure out how one’s body dimensions matches up to a specific bike and all bikes seem to vary from one another in at least one of many different dimensions. you have people with long upper bodies or long arms or long legs and bikes with different top tube lengths or bottom bracket drops and seat tube angles and head tube angles and head tube length. But then for the most part if a bike is roughly in your size and for the casual ride or who rides maybe 30 minutes to an hour. After a couple of rides you get used to your bike and these are all just technical details for those who might spend a long time in the saddle.
Older Claris, with the cables coming out the side, did have reach adjust, but it was via different rubber shims being placed between the top of the lever and the lever body. You should have received those with the shifters/bike.
I’d also add that a bike fit isn’t a once in a lifetime thing…. Our body’s are constantly changing and unfortunately change faster and faster as we age.. so if you had a bike fit ten years ago… the fit you have today. will more than likely be different as you now favour a much less race position.
Apologizes for re-post from previous one but hoping for the reply now (fingers and toes crossed) Ohhh... I know I'm late to this party, but I found something, I think, that I never considered EVER before. So, previous set up, with 100mm stem. Decided to check if also me, I use too long stem. 80mm kicking around, off old goes, in new comes. ... and it sucks. Really badly... Took me 3 or 4 rides to figure out what was that bad. My saddle. It was too high. Dropped it by around 5mm and all of the sudden good again. Soooo... Am I imagining things or there is a correlation between stem length and saddle height? Cheers! I.
I don’t understand the question, the bike felt scatty with the saddle higher? If that’s what you mean then yes excessive saddle height can absolutely, categorically disrupt your bike handling
@@Bikefitjames with 100mm stem felt normal, with 80mm stem was feeling awful, same saddle height as with 100mm. Dropped the saddle and was good again. So started wondering if there is any correlation
@@ivanjednobiegowiec7656 you still haven’t explained what you mean by awful. Awful how? Without that context, not really sure how anyone could provide an insight.
@@bengt_axleyes I know that - the measurement. But Upon reflection 12 cm isn’t that much lower than the lemond formula for example maybe an inch or two. I’ll try it. 🤷♂️
@@subtropicalken1362 For me 0.883 X inseam and this method gives about the same result, in addition to the heel on pedal method. My shoe is 42.5, crank 165mm.
I literally implement all the 10 rules he mentioned in this video. That is the good thing. The bad things is that I needed 10 years of cycling to learn all of these things on my own mistakes. I wish I have seen this video waaaaaaaay before. :)
setting up the cleat towards the back was the biggest gamechanger for me. before I did that I got severe foot pain after 60-80km. now I can comfortably ride on
I put my cleat to the front. My tire rubs on the rear setting. Ive done 50mi/80km with no pain, i regularly bike 40mi/64km.
My suggestion would be to grab your shoe and try to bend the sole length wise. If the sole bows thats probably your problem. Also all shoes are different so it may be a fitment thing? I like a shoe that has room in the toe box, i grew up in sandals. I sprawl my toes like a cat for extra traction out of habit. (Hobbit got jukes!)
Even before i switched to clipless i would use soloman hiking shoes with an internal frame in the shoe. They have minimal flex behind the ball of the foot. I was only up to 30mi/48km rides in those shoes.
Absolutely the coolest bike channel I've ever seen. James is a total joy to watch. Funny and informative.
Stop simping
James, for your next Q&A, a Q: given the improvements in bikefitting technology/techniques, if someone had a good, proficient fit done some years back (15 years in my case), would there be any good reason to get another fit done now, if still in good health and still comfortable on the bike for long distances?
Completely agree about the use of MTB/gravel pedals for the road. I have been telling my new-to-bike customers this for years for the reasons you state and also because on club rides I see inexperienced riders making themselves vulnerable and unstable while fumbling to engage SPD-R’s when moving off at junctions.
thanks I am glad I followed your tip 3 without knowing , I am in between sizes( L/XL) for a Scott gravel addict only because of my arm length ...ordered the L waiting for it now 🤞
Another adept video. Thank you. Speaking as a 62 year old, broken down, short, stocky man, why is it again that I should consider an endurance bike ?? Lol Loved that bit.
Gained even more advice thanks James. At 5' 10 " I for years opted for a 54cm but then someone told me if I went for a 56cm I would be more upright, So I built one up with a 90mm stem has you mentioned and it does seem more comfortable. I did have a touring bike made for me and it is a 55cm which is also ok. I am now on a big learning curve that's for sure.
Can you do a MTB bike fit video?
Saddle height 15mm lower than your road bike height , mtb stems are always short and you only have one hand position so just go by feel with stem and bar lengths
@@Cycle.every.day. saddle 15mm lower. What? Why?
My saddles are same height across my road, MTB and gravel bikes (give or take a few mm for different pedal system stack height).
My reach on my gravel bike is very slightly shorter than road, but not by much, thanks to the bars being a smidge higher. My MTB is fair bit shorter, but the bar width counters that to some degree.
MTB fit is largely based on preference....so in short, no.
@@Cycle.every.day.why!?
Mtb includes the bike, no need to say mtb bike. Its either mtb, mt bike, or mountain bike. It is not a mtb bike nor a mountain bike bike.
Hi James, I've been watching your content on bike fitting first of all on Cade and now on your own channel, this year, for the first time in a few years, my bikes feel comfortable again. I underwent 2 ankle fusion operations a few years ago (the first didn't work) I thought this procedure would only affect my saddle hight, it didn't! It affected absolutely everything. It's cost me a fortune in shoes, cycling and normal shoes, saddles, handlebars but as mentioned, following your tips I've now got all my bikes dialled in. Thanks very much and keep them coming! 👍
Great micfit, James.
Second an MTB fit vid.
All around solid advice. At least four of those points, I have personally experienced. One under-appreciated fit strategy is to buy the smaller frame (if between two sizes) and flip over the stem so that it gives you +2cm of rise without addition of spacers. With a modest 1cm stack of spacers, you'll most likely easily get enough stack for a comfortable reach in an endurance fit. Even though the contact points for two different bikes can be made exactly the same by changing seat posts or stems, these two bikes will not handle the same. The smaller frame with a steering axis closer to the body will feel like the bike is underneath you. The larger frame will feel like you're driving a carriage or a bus. You won't be able to lean into the corner as confidently. So it is very important to get the frame size right, and not dwell over the colour, brand or material or even a set of carbon wheels. Note also, if you're new to cycling, your perception of how the bike feels will change as you become fitter, your proprioception changes and your riding preferences change.
To test the saddle height method suggested here, I just measured my saddle height, and sure enough, the inseam-12cm rule was within 4mm of my current saddle height!!
God bless ya James !
So, I followed the "slam the cleat back" method. I had foot pain for years, finally did the "old fashioned" centre line method, put the cleats about 1/4 of an inch further forward, BOOM, can put so much power down and ride for HOURS now without foot pain!
I had much the same.
Regarding the industry selling consumers a bike that is too big, my first proper road bike was a Trek Emonda 56cm and it was a nightmare trying to get anywhere close to being comfortable. I’m 5’ 9” with a ~31” inseam. Based on that simple measurement, I opted for a Poseidon X Ambition gravel bike in their “small” size because of the 30.5” standover specification. Based on their geometry, that’s a 49cm frame and it is, quite literally, perfect for me. The only tweaks I’ve made are saddle height and fore-aft movement. The bars are a bit wide, but that’s something to worry about during the off season. Thanks for the tips, James!
I would also love to see some video about mtb (xc, trail) fitting tips! Thanks
@@wiktormarcinkowski-fotogra8392 a bikefit is a bikefit as a bikefit should be. The main difference on a mtb is the bars. But the manufacturers tend to put slightly less reach on a mtb.
Top class advice. Thanks James and team!
You are very right and help me a lot but I don’t use shouts with padding never had hard ares lol
Thanks! I'm learning so much with these videos and will certainly make a bike fit before my first road bike purchase
I feel like a bikefit is less critical than bike fitters might make out. Im not saying getting one isnt good. Im saying both stores i went to to buy my last road bike were willing to do bikefits for free, after the bike was purchased. The 1st one charged $150 but then took the cost off a bike. But while i was there looking at the BMC's trying to decide a size. They just put me on some bikes and the 58 had enough seat post coming out while hitting all the paramaters. But the BMC I wanted wont be ready until February... So i moved to my backup option, Specialized. I tried the 56 (all they had in the roubaix) and it felt okay, but my knees came a little close to the bars. I found a 58 at another location took it for a spin and just knew it was me. Every Specialized bike purchased from specialized includes a free bike fit within 45 days of purchase.
I fit myself using online guides. I still intend on going in for my bike fit. I need to schedule it soon, im close to 45 days.
Tip #8 was very insightful though obvious in hindsight. Couldn't figure out why my inseam measurements suggested a bike that ended being too small. Because I have US size 13 feet... 😅
Get an externally routed bike, or at least bike without an integrated stem and without internal routing through the headset. It's so important to be able to play around with stack height, handlebar tilt, handle bars in general, and shifter location. When you route this stuff internally, you have far less cable slack to play around with, not to mention you can't swap out those components without cutting and recabling/hosing the cockpit.
If you can adjust the front of the bike, you can play around with a lot of bike fit measurements, especially reach at the hoods and drops.
Most of the time i hear aero bars with built in stems it coincides with a warning about knowing your bike fit 1st as nothing can be changed. I dont have this issue with my specialized roubaix. The suspension stem wont allow cables to pass, like Gandalf holding back the Balrog!
Nice vid,James and great advice about sizing down. I was lucky that my LBS was very knowledgable when it came to bike fits and discouraged me from buying the bike I originally wanted (which was the smallest the manufacturer made) but it was still too big for me. Eventually got another make with a frame size that fitted me better ( from 48 cm to 46cm), no regrets at all. 350 miles in, it fits me so much better than my other bikes.
Great vid again with a lot of logical sense spoken. Had to laugh when you recommended mtb pedals that I use on my road bike to much ridicule of the local not so young boy racers!!😅😅😅😅. Still wanting to learn about the advantages and disadvantages of the different geometries of frame. TIA.
how to measure a saddle height: from the ground, from the pedal's axis (when crank is parallel to the seat tube) or from the bottom bracket?
All these were good tips. Many thanks.
thanks man. Love from Malaysia !
Trouble with slamming the cleats back, especially on Shimano's one size up(or two sizes-might need sealskinz in there plus thermal socks) is you then have a collision course with the front wheel on toe overlap....(Got a pair of Lake MXZ176 in the post from Sigma, hopefully in the true 44 I am they'll fit properly!)
So glad you recommended spd pedals. I just cannot wrap my head around a shoe that you either cant walk in or makes you look like a duck. I would rather wear clipless road flippers (fictitious seal team 6 cycling shoes)
I went spd on my road bike. The salesman looked at me funny and questioned my decision. I just told him i mtb too, then he nodded in agreement... I run flat pedals on my mtb and dont intend to clip in on it.
Another option is to buy a book about bike fitting and testing things out at home.
Sure it's not as good as getting a fit by a professional, but when your flexibility, weight, fitness, equipment, riding conditions, mental state and preferences etc changes throughout the year, it seems like one way to go.
Would you be so kind as to recommend any books about bike fitting?
Love this channel!!! Bike fit question. I want a Pinarello X5. Based on my current bike and measurements I am between a 545 and 530. I have ridden both sizes in an X3 model and per Pinarello website the geometry is VERY close. The 530 feels better. My question is, since I can’t test ride an X5 would it be proper protocol to go in my bike shop and ask them to set up the Retul to both 530 and 545 geometries from the X5 Pinarello site to make sure it feels close to the size 530 X3? …and yes I am trying to keep from having to do a full blown initial fit because I know it’s between these two sizes and in my heart I think the 530 is the size I need. Has anyone ever come at a fit this way and how did it work out? I’m 5’10” with a 34” inseam. Leg’s, torso and arms are pretty normal-ish. I’m on a M/L defy advanced and I’m too stretched out. Thanks!
With the cleat position tio, I done it but I had huge "feet burn" :/ so I made the adjustment with measuring the "bony bits" on the sides and putting the cleats there, no paint then or numbness in the toes.
This is a wonderful video for those of us who don't have access to a good bike fitting vendor. I've been riding for a long time on a variety of bikes and have a pretty good idea of what is comfortable and lets me bike 100km a day for several days on tour without discomfort, but I still picked up a tip or tow. This is good, as I have a new bike coming in (and yes, it's a size smaller than recommended by the manufacturer).
Vendor? They arent the perfume vendor at the mall. They provide a service.
Theres one here by me. I forget the name of the machine they use, but you cant buy it from them, that would make you their competition! The fit here runs $350-$500 and the machine can replicate any bike or inform you what bikes would fit best.
Im getting a free fit from specialized (comes with the bike) i havent even gone yet, i just did my own fit. I had numb johnson syndrome for a bit but fiddled with my tilt until it stopped getting numb. I dont love the seat. I like riding with no hands quite a bit and the seat either wants to push me forward while riding no hands or make my manhood numb.
Im thinking about the expensive fit, but probably won't do it. Definetly not anytime soon. If i were to, it would coincide with a new seat most likley. Right now im gearing up on cycling clothes.
The best bike adjustment I've made so far is to point my saddle down slightly - in conjunction with sliding it back on the rails a bit - which somehow helped me solve both numb hands and numb crotch all in one fell swoop. Not sure how but not complaining
Great synopsis!
10 mistakes of bikefitting is not a breif summary of bikefitting. Aka not a synopsis, still good info though. As expected from an industry professional.
Went to buy a gravel bike before they existed, was shown in endurance bike, but loved the handling of the racing bike and instead bought that, sold it and bought a gravel bike, but now looking for an endurance bike. One thing I got right from the start was the SPD pedals
I wanted a road bike in 2022. When looking into things i found out gravel bikes had become a thing. My inner bmx'er and mountain biker began to gush over the possibilities. I began saving and researching. Then in 2023 I rolled my truck in a freeway collision and broke my back... after 6 months of bedrest i had gained 40lbs and lost what felt like 20lbs of muscle. Que the long road to recovery... im still carrying 20 extra lbs.
I dove in hard on my mtb once my legs could handle traversing staircases with regularity. I then began thinking about that drop bar bike again. Only i came to a different conclusion this time around. I already had a mtb, it is plenty capable off road. What i really wanted was a road machine that was so overly confident i felt comfortable off road. Gravel bikes had also morphed into offroad beasts chasing mountainbikes. With 45mm basically the norm and 50mm fairly common, various suspension options, and slackened stances for bombing downhills over rocky terrain.
So i decided to move into a more allroad/cyclo-cross realm, but with a gravelesque bikefit. This is the modern endurance bike as i see it. Initially i was all over the BMC roadmachine. The new models can fit 40mm and have true road geometry (wheelbase, chainstay, front center) But the bike wouldnt be ready until February, also i have manufacturing concerns (check mapdec cycleworks going over a BMC). So i went with a specialized roubaix, also an endurance bike, also fits 40mm. Very similar geometry as the BMC. Plus it has front suspension and built in compliance similar to the BMC.
Im very happy i chose an endurance bike. Its been a long time coming. Im running 40mm pirelli gravel h tires. My main concern is the piles of sand that build up on my regular route and these tires look fairly similar to a beach cruiser tred. Ive ridden through a few piles already, ezpz. Ive done minimal gravel riding since getting the bike. Its only been a month. Im also moving to the mountains, so im sure ill get me some. The mtb might even get the dust knocked off it!
@@onebighoffy you did well. Run them with lower pressure and you can get a big enough contact patch to ride over or through sand at 40 mm and there’s plenty of tires in that 40 mm range with some tread on the side and slick in the center
Nice one James. Great work. 👍🇮🇪
Hi! When do you know whether the saddle is too high/low, or you should move the saddle forward/backwards. Currently struggling finding the middle ground here...
Nice one James 👍
Question for the next Q/A: Should the bike shoe industry switch over to the Mondo Point size system like in ski boots. Length of the foot instead of a random number that can „run small or big“
Having sizing information in millimetres is essential to sanity check what some manufacturers pass off as 'standard' Euro or US sizing. Some shoe brands, such as Lake, provide size information in millimetres alongside the Euro size. Their sizing guide is very good and should allow most people to purchase a shoe that fits well. The challenge with Lake is paying attention to the description so you know which shoe is made with which last / sole shape.
As Jason states, Lake have excellent measuring guide that results in precisely what you are suggesting.
@@joules2936 I had to check my Lakes and indeed they have written a mm range in them. My point was more on replacing the random shoe sizing system by something that really represents a real measurement. Imagine we had size 13 to 17 handlebars where the numbers mean a different thing on every manufacturer. (stupid enough that Deda (which I have on one of my bikes so no need to defend them) measures differently to anyone else.
@@chrisridesbicycles your suggestion goes for shoe sizing in general. I think Japanese sizing uses mm (may have the nationality wrong, but defo seen something on the end of a shoe box that had various measurement types listed).
Thanks James!
Regarding the point about sizing down 1-2 sizes, does that also apply to endurance bikes?
When measuring saddle height, where on the saddle do you take the measurement? Middle or the back where you actually sit? Thanks.
I would happily get a bike fit… the only issue it a long trek in miles to get to one , the bike industry has lost too many independent shops that did just this……
Wow awesome video..!! Thanks
Very nice, James.
Excellent video!!!
Great Tips James ❤
The cleat full back advice is ok until you get to size 47 or 48 or above , fully back on those sizes can be a bit much.
Actually it's the opposite. The bigger your shoes (or feet), the more important it is to move the cleats back
i rely wish i hade the founds and the time to do a full fit with you. I just can't get rid of my knee problems. I kind of think i know what i need to do (shorter kranks and and insoles with archsuport)
HI James, love the new channel! What is your take on the Argon 18 bikes with their 3D top cap fit system? Seems like a good solution and their Dark Matter gravel and Krypton road bikes seem to have good numbers for my little knowledge.. Thanks!
You have any bike fitting associate recommendations in Mtl. Canada?
Any tips for more upright geometries (touring bikes, 'grandma bikes', etc)? And for the people who commute but are not aiming to go very fast, any tips for those who dress for the destination and not the ride (mostly saddle choice)?
Just wonderful. ❤
What do you thing about cropped saddles?
I am planning to upgrade my pedals to a clipless system (probably a pair of Look road pedals) soon. When I bought my bike, I got a fit with my flat pedals and sneakers. When I switch the pedals and shoes, should I lower my saddle height? Also, when I lower my saddle, will I have to change the seat position (forward or backward)?
I probably need narrower bars but those brake levers are useless on the drops lol. But thanks I’ll look for the adjustment
Oh and a 165mm crank length
Do you think fitters need to make a more beginner friendly level of service in order to accommodate your suggestion of "fit first buy later"? Fitters in my area offer their services starting at 300 USD which would be a hard to justify cost when purchasing a claris level bike.
Maybe an obvious question, but if you adjust the reach of the brake lever, will there still generally be enough clearance to brake fully before the levers hit the drops?
Another great video James, if I wasn't on the other side of the planet I'd pay a visit.
I am reasonably comfortable in my fit but want to try moving my cleats back. Do you have a starting suggestion in terms of mm of cleat aft and then mm of seat down? Would I also need to consider moving seat back a little given coming down in height is effectively bringin the saddle forward? I supposed it depends on the how much it comes down. I think I can move the cleats back 22 or 23mm.
When I moved my cleats back I simply moved my saddle way lower, like 4 cm. I went on a test ride, where I moved the saddle up by ~5 mm every 10-15 minutes. At first it feels better and better, at some point it starts feeling good, and then you start to feel that you're loosing control at the bottom of the stroke, pedaling isn't as smooth. At this point, lower the saddle 5 mm back to the last smooth feeling height and it should be pretty good.
Hi James can you help, I’m looking for long axle pedals, any suggestions please ❤
If you put the cleats all the way back could that possibly lead to toe overlap on the front wheel?
Great tips! Thanks a lot. I have a question regarding bike fit. Do you think I should change my saddle position/angle if I will be riding up a 14% average climb of 8 km for a TT? Or should I be riding the same position as I would on flat roads or descents?
Well here's my 2 cents. 14% is 8 degrees, so on this climb your "leveled" saddle is pointing up like crazy and your seat tube angle goes from ~73 to ~65 degrees, basically you are kicked backward. To bring you back closer to a neutral position you would set up your position more forward : saddle forward on the rails and pointing down, and also a longer stem if your current reach is correct. I don't know how the effective saddle height will behave but I'm pretty sure it will also have to change. On flatter training rides this would put way too much load on your hands and shoulders, so there's a happy middleground to find.
What do you say about flat pedals?
I really love your content James, but you're often mentioning lowering saddle height and that it's not going to cause any major problems if it's low. Maybe it's me but i've recently had a bikefit (2nd one unfortunately), and the fitter increased my sadle by a lot (2.4cm). Previously i was running 74.6cm and now it's 77cm (87cm insteam, 172.5mm crank, 45.5 Lake MX242). The reason why is because i was having a lot of back thigh muscle pain (apparently sth called "right biceps femoris") and the reason was "not fully extending the leg that is a little shorter". First of all, i was surprised that my leg is shorter because i couldn't tell by either looking or walking, secondly that the reason seamed good enough since the pain was only in 1 leg.
The problem is that even after rising saddle sometimes it still hurts during longer and harder efforts (but not as much as before), and i cannot rise saddle anymore because it starts affecting my pedaling smoothness and the control at the bottom of the stroke. But getting back to what you were implying in the other videos, getting saddle lower than it suppose to be might cause problems as much as getting it higher, just different kind of problems. Unless it's not related to the saddle height completely and it was just coincident that it helped a little.
There could be a million reasons why, I’d suggest going back to your bike fitter
Can you recommend a wide fitting spd cycle touring shoe?
Lake MX238 / MX242 check out our website - we offer a full shoe fitting service to ensure this is the right shoe for you, anything else is utter guess work
@@Bikefitjames thank you!
Hi James. I know you mean well, but as someone who used to have a very irregular monthly cycle, not wearing underwear wasn't an option. For me and many others I've cycled with. Though pads are supposed to be antimicrobial, blood and other bodily fluids are tricky to completely wash out every time. Stains and a residue build up. Really embarrassing if you house share and leave them out to dry and if not completely dry, you risk a nasty UTI. I'd rather replace cheap string knickers than expensive shorts.
Just something to be aware of for some of your clients.
This is fucking awesome, thank you very much
If I size down I lose a massive chunk of stack height?
Manufactures usually keep the stack to reach ratio about the same between sizes. Everything just gets a bit closer to you. Unless you were joking.
Choose better fitting bikes then!
I wasn’t joking. I’m on a medium Giant Defy, with all the spacers beneath the stem. If I went to a small, I’d lose 17mm stack and I obviously can’t add another 15mm of spacers. If I went up a size to M/L, I could get an extra 19mm of stack, for only 4mm more reach which is easily dealt with a shorter stem. Maybe I’m missing something?
@@owainstravels3381 not sure how to answer that other than going to a bike shop that has that size and giving it a try or getting a bike fit with a fitter who has a database of bikes to match. I realize that there isn’t one perfect way to figure out how one’s body dimensions matches up to a specific bike and all bikes seem to vary from one another in at least one of many different dimensions. you have people with long upper bodies or long arms or long legs and bikes with different top tube lengths or bottom bracket drops and seat tube angles and head tube angles and head tube length. But then for the most part if a bike is roughly in your size and for the casual ride or who rides maybe 30 minutes to an hour. After a couple of rides you get used to your bike and these are all just technical details for those who might spend a long time in the saddle.
should I meassure my inseam with or without shoes?
Without
@@Bikefitjames Thank you!
Unfortunately I think my Claris predates reach adjustment.
Older Claris, with the cables coming out the side, did have reach adjust, but it was via different rubber shims being placed between the top of the lever and the lever body. You should have received those with the shifters/bike.
So that's what they were for.
Would be good to see some shoe fitting vids, in particular a foot that is wide, flat and looks like it belongs to a duck billed platypus 😊
I’d also add that a bike fit isn’t a once in a lifetime thing…. Our body’s are constantly changing and unfortunately change faster and faster as we age.. so if you had a bike fit ten years ago… the fit you have today. will more than likely be different as you now favour a much less race position.
Apologizes for re-post from previous one but hoping for the reply now (fingers and toes crossed)
Ohhh... I know I'm late to this party, but I found something, I think, that I never considered EVER before.
So, previous set up, with 100mm stem. Decided to check if also me, I use too long stem. 80mm kicking around, off old goes, in new comes.
... and it sucks. Really badly... Took me 3 or 4 rides to figure out what was that bad. My saddle. It was too high. Dropped it by around 5mm and all of the sudden good again.
Soooo... Am I imagining things or there is a correlation between stem length and saddle height?
Cheers!
I.
I don’t understand the question, the bike felt scatty with the saddle higher? If that’s what you mean then yes excessive saddle height can absolutely, categorically disrupt your bike handling
@@Bikefitjames with 100mm stem felt normal, with 80mm stem was feeling awful, same saddle height as with 100mm. Dropped the saddle and was good again.
So started wondering if there is any correlation
@@ivanjednobiegowiec7656 in most cases a stem with the same angle and 20mm shorter will increase the drop of your handlebars relative to your saddle.
@@cebrhrdt thanks 👍 So I'm not imagining things then 😆
@@ivanjednobiegowiec7656 you still haven’t explained what you mean by awful. Awful how? Without that context, not really sure how anyone could provide an insight.
But I don't WEAR 'bike' shorts!
Did you really mean 12 cm? That’s a lot!
It is correct. Saddle height is measured from the center BB (center of spindle) to the top of the saddle, along the seat tube.
@@bengt_axleyes I know that - the measurement. But Upon reflection 12 cm isn’t that much lower than the lemond formula for example maybe an inch or two. I’ll try it. 🤷♂️
@@subtropicalken1362 For me 0.883 X inseam and this method gives about the same result, in addition to the heel on pedal method. My shoe is 42.5, crank 165mm.
only the human body stys the same!! thats the problem, we need better DNA or maybe RNA!!
Tip 11: Subscribe to this channel.
I would also love to see some video about mtb (xc, trail) fitting tips! Thanks