Fun fact: one streamer sent a mail to codemasters to ask them why GRID 2's damage model was weaker than GRID's. Turns out, Codemasters made a lot of car companies displeased with GRID's damage model.
@@GamerAlexVideos I'd like to refute that Ford statement since you can pretty much wreck Fords remorselessly in NFS Undercover and Dirt Rally 2 which might factor to the audience shift over the time, where car damages might be considered violence according to ESRB and PEGI these days
@@adlibbed2138 I really think it's a esrb and dev effort thing. Since games are more targeting the youth too much,they want less edgy and mature content. And for dev effort, well we all know devs are just too lazy to make a good racing game nowadays. However it is definitely possible for games to have damageable licensed cars as shown with manufacturer crossovers with shooter games like Ferrari with fortnite, freefire with McLaren and COD with Hummer.
@@Bufuice yeah, hence why I said you can pretty much wreck Fords to your heart contents in NFS Undercover, in that game where it centers around illegal street racing, which wouldn't completely fly to today's car companies like Toyota, Peugeot, and Renault' mindsets in the 2023
Great graphics eventually get old. Great physics engines never die. I wish game developers would understand this again and adjust their priorities. Thanks Gamer Alex for being the one who finally addresses this issue in the racing game genre. Great video.
graphics $ell.... gameplay keeps you playing... but these big businesses dont want you playing the same old games for a 100 years. they need to sell the new shtt
This video was spot on. As we’re currently in the stagnant era of racing games- I really like how you cover these issues in a objective and unbiased manner without leaving out any pros and cons. We need more people like this in the racing game scene.
Arcade racing games are built with unrealistic physics by design, that's the whole point, you do realize arcade racing games have always had unrealistic physics by design, arcade means unrealistic, Sim means realistic, and simcade is somewhere in between
The whole damage and license thing is just stupid The car manufacturers do not mind their cars being destroyed in movies, even in some movies where they sponsored/had direct involvement you see their cars being destroyed Bmw paid to have the z8 in a 007 movie and the car was literally split in half there And on top of that if you want to see any licensed car being destroyed all you have to do is type on TH-cam car from manufacturer x crash (example Audi crash) and you’ll find plenty of videos Why do car manufacturers only care about car damage when it’s a virtual car on a video game? How many modern games you can even lose a bumper of a licensed car? It’s ridiculous honestly
To answer the last paragraph of your comment, it's the same old "ViDeO gAmE cAyUsEd vi0LeNcE" type of crankery where there is this news media that's actually putting Driveclub, and some other games like Minecraft and Fortnite, like how is the racing games like Driveclub had anything to do with that tired discussion?
Yes I fucking hate this, makes me even more pissed that it will probably never change - it will only get worse Racing games are fucking doomed to being nothing but an ad for cringe manufactures
It baffled me how many people attributed lack of realistic car damage as "developer laziness" as I've always thought that car licensing being to blame was common knowledge.
In defense of GRIP, hard to drive with little downforce was the point. The entire point of GRIP was that it was a reboot of an old game called Rollcage which had similar characteristics. Honestly they succeeded in my opinion, though I’ll admit they do need a little bit more aerodynamic grip
I find it baffling that Ubisoft managed to make Driver San Francisco with incredible gameplay and physics and then somehow manage to go backwards in quality with the Crew 2 just 7 years later it just makes no sense to me
Technically different developers. Most of Driver devs went to make Watchdogs and the driving in that series is somehow still much better than The Crew.
@@SlurpyPie The Crew is mostly developed by ex-Eden Games (French) people now in a new studio called Ivory Tower, who did Test Drive Unlimited; if you wondered why The Crew is obsessed with massive map, and now goes back to Hawaii, that's why. Driver SanFran is developed by Reflections (British), no idea why but Brits are so much better at making racing games in general (such as old Codemasters and old Playground Games).
Both driver San Francisco and the crew 2 both have unrealistic physics by design, they are both arcade games, that's what arcade means, if you want realistic physics then go play Sim racers
@@mathewhosier9739 projecting much? Nobody has said anything about realism throughout this comment section. _"B-but it's arcade, go play sim racers if you want good physics"_ is how you sound like, acting as if arcade physics can't be good and most importantly, bad; this is one of the most pathetic excuse people have been throwing around to defend shit arcade physics, when in reality there are many arcade racers that have great handling physics without being ultra realistic (Project Gotham Racing, Driveclub, Wreckfest, Grid Autosport, etc). Hell, The Crew even improved the physics in Motorfest, proving that The Crew 2's physics was indeed underbaked and could've been made better.
You make a good point on fun physics being something that people will come for. BeamNG has next to no content if you ignore it's pure sandbox modes but it's endlessly entertaining because of it's damage model and off-road driving that punches ridiculously far above it's weight.
I don't get why car companies making it harder for game developers to implement proper vehicle damage. Your products do shapeshift when crashed at highspeed! And it's not your fault. Portraying your products in-game like it being made in titanium are borderline misleading. Imagine some dumbass buying your car after playing a game where you can mow entire field full of trees with a sedan and this guy doing the same in real life and ended up in ICU. Smh. Instead just let the dev implement vehicle damage. *But*, make them portray your car as the safest car when accident happen in semi-realistic way. People will consider buying your car after that presentation.
4:41 funny that you mention this, because The Run is exactly where Rivals gets the majority of its vehicle sim from lol. It’s essentially just The Run with a straight port of MW12’s tire model, steering code, and drift assists (internally named DriftComponent). Later games change a few more things, but even in Unbound after they refactored the whole thing, that DNA is still there. The suspension sim, for example, can be traced all the way back to ProStreet (also MW05 but it’s a bit more simple in there).
Huh, interesting. Rivals feels completely different to The Run and has brand issues like the clipping as well. I guess that is what happens when you tack on code like that.
I've recently played through original Grid Legends and RaceDriver:Grid While tire model feels better in Legends, Racedriver:Grid's damage model, "soft" collisions without cars being glued to each other, actual compliance of suspension allowing you to better see what's going on with the car and react to going over bumps intuitively... It's just more fun. I still wish BugBear will someday create racing game with gamemodes inspired by "serious" IRL motorsports. Few tweaks to the handling model of Wreckfest (make sliding slower and get rid of "man+clutch" advantage), features like slipstream, downforce and pitstops and it would be the ultimate arcade/simcade platform for years to come. Touring, rally, rallycross, ovals... Every motorsport that includes contact racing or light offroading could be great theme for neverending stream of DLCs.
@@Oscar97o I know that it has IRL tracks, both traditional and rallycross circuits. What I meant was introduction of additional IRL inspired classes and rules (event types).
The original Grid is still my favourite racing game for various reasons but the physics and damage model are definitely two of them. Handles the balance between slidey arcade type physics and then high downforce, tightly gripping Le Mans spec cars and open wheelers well. The drift physics are absolutely my favourite in any racing game; just loose enough, high speed, just the right amount of control (even with the assists off when you have the right car)
@@Red_Beard2798 My only issue with the first Grid is that the AI just seems to cheat in the higher difficulty settings. They can take corners faster than you.
Just got recommended this video and really glad I came across this. Really overlooked topic. I also noticed and disliked the recent trend that arcade racing seems to always just feel very off. Accessible and easy to pick and up play usually, sure, but also just doesn't feel right or actually fun, and most of the fun comes from other elements of the game. I know you mentioned the issues with GRID Legend's carryover physics from the previous title and the grippy drifting, but it is also one of my favorite arcade racing in the recent years and it actually does feel very nice for the most part. It is something I hope more of these arcade racers try to strive for again too, or better. Definitely agree that devs should try to stop reinventing the wheel and try to carryover what worked and do improvements over a good base. On the topic of vehicle damage, I don't mind them getting toned down too much, but I'm also very open to the idea of games embracing more fictional cars and lawyer-friendly designs that are similar enough to the real thing while still being fictional so that developers can get loose again with damage models and what not. Especially as we have games like Forza and Gran Turismo already that provide that aspect of accurately turning real life cars into virtual interactive vehicles, it'd be nice to have more games embrace things in a different direction and get creative with fictional original vehicles.
Absolutely. Indie studios knows this so well and it's VERY effectve. They really should break free from the licesing hell with compromising contracts and giving more longevity to racing games.
@@b.1570 Definitely. Really hoping at least one of the big studios take a gamble and embrace fictional designs again and set up a trend someday. I even imagine this would be attractive to the higher up suits since no licensing costs from car manufacturers. Back then with big established series like Ridge Racer and Burnout, they have so many great looking lawyer-friendly fictional cars, and even the GTA series manages to create both familiar close-to-real-life yet iconic original cars too. I think most players outside the hardcore car enthusiast crowd aren't too attached to licensed cars anyways. Sure having your Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos and stuff will attarct a crowd, but peole will be even more attracted and stay longer when the actual game is fun and full of depth. The car enthusiasts tend to also already exist in their niche ecosystem with sim racing, with most people who are really into cars dedicated to Assetto Corsa and Gran Turismo. We haven't tapped into "loves cars/racing but not exactly a licensed car enthuaist" general crowd for a while now.
The lack of downforce and bouncy suspension in GRIP, is perfect for what it is trying to emulate. I haven't played the game myself, but i have played the games it was inspired by and attempts to emulate (Rollcage 1 and 2 for the PS1). The cars in those games are supposed to be futuristic ATV's, going on any anf all surfaces, not to mention driving upside down, so flipping your car and the lack of downforce was part of the intended experience for it. Please do correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm no expert and I would love to learn more from 1st hand accounts.
Thank you for not only being fair with your critique of Hotshot Racing's physics, but also pointing out that people still love that game. I personally love it myself despite its physics and collision shortcomings..
Even outside games classified as racing games you get dodgy physics models. GTA 4's physics model is way superior to 5's. Honestly, people asked for it. If they don't like skill based, weighty handling and really like fancy graphics, priorities shift. OK so maybe 4's wasn't perfect, but it was something to improve rather than just replace with something really dull. Even cartoony physics like the older GTA and Saints Row games can be fun, better than some middling nonsense that just wants you to go to place A and B in the most grippy way possible.
The real problem, is that they're designing the handling model for the wrong game. Take Blur for instance. That game has terrible handling, (cars slide out easily, driving is kind of inconsistent, you have to go unfathomably slow to make a turn) but it works because the game is designed for it. The boost cancels sideways momentum, the tracks are extremely wide and full of just straight paths, and they don't really try to distract the player from what's important in the game. (The powerups) DiRT 5, may not have the best handling, but it's extremely similar to Motorstorm. Which is well known for it's wide roads and splitting pathways, which happens to work well with handling model like Motorstorm's. All you need to do is just create the right game for the physics. Hotshot Racing, that game already has a good handling model, in my opinion. All you need to do is just make the physics a bit less goofy, and then it'll be just fine (And even then, the physics are better than Ridge Racer, which has similar handling) With DiRT 5, wider roads and more paths (like Motorstorm) would work a lot better than just basic roads in that game GRIP, that game doesn't need as crazy of roads as it does, maybe tone down the tracks a little, but keep the wide roads and it'll be just fine. GRID Legends is the other case. Maybe lean _a bit_ more on the arcade side, and then you could make it work better. The Crew 2... yeah that game just isn't salvageable no matter what you do. Never let Ubisoft make a racing game, folks. Say what you will about GRID 2, I still believe it has a better handling model than future Codemasters games.
5:31 honestly if I ever make a car company, I wouldn’t mind game developers using my car models used in racing games for destruction I’d be fine with it🤷♂️
I fully agree with the exceptional physics in "Dirt 2" & "Flatout Ultimate Carnage". It's wonderful hearing someone mention this as I too love racing games & am often dissatisfied with arcade racers today. "Need For Speed The Run" is my favorite in the vast series, it's refreshing to hear your opinions on all this! A big thumbs up & a enthusiastic sub from me my friend. I love the content!
Gotta stop hating on arcade games. F-Zero GX, Midnight Club 3, Ridge Racer 7 aren't realistic at all, yet they have great/fun physics. Theres good arcade physics and bad arcade physics. Just like sims... Theres good sim physics and bad sim physics too.
It's not just arcade racing. Richard Burns Rally remains the gold standard for rally racing physics and probably all sim racing too. It's still played today and knocks all other rally games outta the park. It was made in 2004...
Absolutely not, RBR vanilla physics are inferior to dirt rally 2.0 RBR with a shit ton of mods on the other hand do indeed have superior physics though
@@Eat-MyGoal Indeed, the modding community does manage to pull out several impressive stuff and keep several old games alive I mean, look at NR2003, GTR 2, og rFactor and I guess you can even call Assetto Corsa old by now, and the modding community manage to keep those games alive
I miss Midnight Club. There's not a single other game series that combines such high level of car handling with tight open map design where almost every street corner feels entirely different when tackled from a different direction, if not downright driven straight through.
@@scottthewaterwarrior Honestly I agree. LA has fantastic immersion and details, but the race design is mostly far too simple, too many races repeat the same parts of the map in the same ways, the career progression is very lacking, and the overall gameplay pacing is much slower by comparison to 2 and 3.
@@Arexion5293 I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that!!! I hated the late game because of the repetitious nature... The map felt so underutilized in that game it's incredible. My favorite part was that you could play both with a Black Box NFS style tighter handling style or the loose and frenetic MC handling style. Simply by choosing the brake or hand brake. That, the cockpit view and customization were the only things I think it did better than 3, otherwise 3 did laps around it.
@@scottthewaterwarrior In Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune series of cabinet arcade racing games, it’s free credits for first place for PVP. But in Story Mode and Ghost Battles, it doesn’t.
7:17 NFS Rivals physics were fun though. Cars had different weight groups, nice drifting, and crash detection was also good. Only problem was crash physics felt bit weird.
You mentioned GRID, among other things. I agree that the handling could be better. But the thing is that I hated the handling of GRID 2019 so much, but on the other hand I think GRID Legend is the 100% better game. They probably only made tiny changes. But they have made a huge difference for me. As for Forza Horizon 5. Great handling, boring game for me....
I still say the best physics in racing games belongs to the WipEout series. Particularly Omega Collection. Tight handling, almost straddling into simulation territory (you know, as far as a futuristic racer _can_ go at least). But even that doesn't do damage modelling any more. That was last seen in WipEout Fusion!
AFAIK, damage modeling was only present in Fusion, as a damage model. And I kind oc like the floatier physics of the PS1 Wipeouts better, but yeah, the the HD era Wipeout was and is pretty good for what it is.
Too true. I really want a good arcade Racer again. It's why I've gotten more drawn to simracing tbh. At least there physics have improved, rather than gotten worse.
The thing that irritates me from car makers is the fact they make their race cars to compete and car wrecks does happen in motorsports and they try the absolute best to keep their cars intact or rather fully scarred throuthout the race and nothing is more gratifying than finishing a race with a beated out car. Why they have to limit that to a videogame? It's not real life. (GRID 2019's and Legends trying to bring NASCAR like and demolition derby without the main important and fun part with limited physics is SUPER underwhelming). That's what made Codemasters so notorious with their games. from TOCA to Grid and the Colin Mcrae rally games because there aren't anything more thrilling than the knowing the limits if you damage your car enough and be out for good. Which makes sense for games that try to emphasise the motosport experience for a casual audience. Something that even simulators can't provide besides BeamNG and RBR. Yeah, Grid and Dirt brought me to motorsports and potentially Simracing (even tho I dislike sim elitism). For game development, Destruction is a advanced feature for next gen gaming... meanwhile manufactureres don't actually want to see that way. That's why I think racing game devs should try to bring new IP's without compromissing their games with licensed cars and do similarly to BugBear did with Wreckfest, Rockstar with GTA Online cars, art of rally, The CarX series and so many others. Creating similar couterparts to real life cars with fictional parts and names and avoiding all the licesing hell, having more creative freedom and giving more longevity to racing games to not be potentially dislisted in the future. Same applies to car parts, music, and even locations. That's what I believe.
Drifting in Unbound is sooo annoying. The player isn't given full control of the car's drift angle in a way that it can only turn inwards but not outwards. Cars randomly straighten up or just go off the road because they need to much speed to go sideways.
To me good physics in a arcade racer is mendatory, it's why I stopped playing The Crew dispite the concept being super fun, but I wasn't expecting driving a brick
not to mention that driveclub also had incredible physics for an arcade racer. not entirely accurate to real car behaviour but it was always predictable, had a proper learning curve and was always fun to drive
Dirt 5 is very clearly not meant to be realistic. They passed that torch to Dirt Rally 2.0 so they could do something less strict and fun for the casual gamer. Besides, you don't need exact physics to convey consequences and that game struck it pretty well. The moment you disrespect the terrain in Dirt 5, it shoves you face first into a wall or throws you off the course. The 90s Rally class of cars are too fast and fun to drive to care about proper physics since you're too busy brawling in a pack with the other cars going flat out through a rock trench. And the throwdowns genuinely feel like a duel.
Even though the physics aren't supposed to be realistic, as 'arcade' physics they absolutely suck. I covered that more so in my Gravel vs DIRT 5 video.
One of the reason why a new game engine/upgrade is needed is because some old engines have issues with some consoles or to reduce difficulties. The Hedgehog Engine, for SEGA's Sonic The Hedgehog, is an example. They explained they needed an upgrade because HE1 somehow didn't worked well for the PS4 and Xbone, and why the Hedgehog Engine 2 existed. Counter-Strike 2 isn't technically a "new" game, it's just CS:GO for Source 2 as the original Source coding script was a nightmare. And DICE announced they will be abandoning the Frostbite Engine after the huge disaster Battlefield 2048 faced in favor of Unreal Engine. I'm not sure if many of these racing games you showed where made with Unity, but after the disaster of bad decisions that led people abandoning Unity, hopefully new engines like Unreal and Godot helps the physics issues. (I'm no expert in game engine, so don't take my words seriously)
5:43 that's only partly true, in most cases for explosions they used unlicenced cars, but there is also licenced ford truck which might explode as well
Really good video, i would go as far as to say the physics are the most important aspect in racing games. Super street racer is my favorite example, the game is really buggy, unfinished and so on. Buth the physics are so much fun that i sometimes find myself just driving around to enjoy them.
and that's why car games are so boring nowadays, thanks for this video, finally someone sane who doesn't just focus on the graphics, good video, I wish companies would see it
Wow, someone who played Cross Race Championship, one of my favorite racing games, it feels like you are driving a car. I always though that a great arcade racing game is the one with the best physics engine who simulates everything but in a "cinematic" exaggerated way. Flat Out 1 was awesome for example. The original grid was out of this world. I still play Richard Burns Rally despite it's age, and it's because the physic engine just feel right.
I made my own 3D car game with fairly advanced physics using Unity's rigid bodies and making my own soft body physics engine, and I can assure you that no a physics engine isn't that complicated, especially on a racing game where it doesn't really simulate the suspension parts and all that sort of thing.
Vehicle physics are the biggest reason why I like most car games that I like! I love FlatOut because of the feeling that you're controlling an actual physical object, instead of one of those electric rail car toys like most games. Taking jumps carefully to not flip and land straight, crashing into other cars, feels awesome
Agreed... And people gotta stop hating on arcade games too. F-Zero GX, Midnight Club 3, Ridge Racer 7 aren't realistic at all, yet they have great/fun physics. Theres good arcade physics and bad arcade physics. Just like sims... Theres good sim physics and bad sim physics too.
Wreckfest physics and online racing make this my favorite. Drivers win Wreckfest, cars win Forza online. Art of rally has great physics with minimal graphics, play it daily.
I'm a bit confused now. you seperated simulation games from arcade ones at the begining but still you showed both.. Anyways if it's about physics they are holding back arcade games most of the time so they only work for simulation titles if you ask me. Ironically enough i recall some very famous series at their start like gran tourismo, touka, ridge racer and other games like that were like total bricks on a slide back then XD.
I was trying to say that while simulation racing physics have improved, arcade racing physics in comparison have only gotten worse. It was just merely a comparison and not trying to say that sims somehow negatively affected the physics design for arcade racers.
Motorstorm as great physics too. Also Motorstorm apocalypse is the only one compatible with steering wheels and is very nervous driving (PS: If you try to play Motorsortm Apocalypse with racing wheel to fix forcefeedback bug. Update the game. Turn on your ps3 manualy with wheel connected. The wheel need to be controller one. Once on the ps3 menu turn your wheel complely left and right, press pedals to calibrate the wheel and start the game. When your on the race, the wheel will only vibrate and to fix the full forcefeedback you need to pause the game, go to controller, go back, unpause then play the game with full forcefeedback feature! Little annoying bug! You have to do this process each time you quit the game)
Talking abaut Wreckfest, someone can explain why WHY vehicles when crash in to the hood or trunk, they deformation goes to down, and not like Driver games or BeamNG for example?? I explain? I know Wreckfest is not centered in simulation but its a game focused in destruction derby races and the level of detail and deformation needs to be almost close to the reality. Personally feels more better and solid hit cars in Driver San Francisco than Wreckfest.
I think there's a simple way to describe this part of racing. A good racing game physics engine is the one you don't talk about (because it means it's not getting in the way of your experience).
I get where you are coming from, but I don't fully agree since great physics engines are talked about as well. I've certainly talked about my favorite physics in racing games to others before.
I still play flat out ultimate carnage on my PSP ( Playstation Portable ) - I don't get how modern games ( Excepting BeamNG ) seem to have worse physics these days when we have exponentially more processing power to use.
Sad that you didn't mention Motorstorm franchise. Burnout and Motorstorm franchise has the best vehicle destruction physics. And probably the most satisfactory.
Im not gonna lie, i think both Dirt 5 and Grid Legends are the best of their series, when it comes to physics, car lists, track lists, career modes and fun factor they are the best of their series
I still think Codemasters could make a badass Street-Racing Underground-Themed game by recycling Grid 2's physics, improving the AI to be able to utilize it, add police and customization, with some storyline to it. Perhaps a game called "Off the Grid".. actually that's what I think Grid 2 should have been.
4:43 nope, The Run is an exceptional game in terms of setting. 90% of the tracks in this game are highways, which means fewer turns and the handling suited that. It would not have worked in Rivals.
There were plenty of sharp turns in The Run as well. So I don't think it was out of the realm of possibilities to keep the engine and tweak it instead of making a whole new one.
What was the second last game? Oh I would be soo happy if you smacked a name on the clips. many of these seems fun but I have a hard time finding arcade games I like.
Bit late to be making a comment but with your point on the physics with Need for Speed most wanted 2005, Burnout Revenge and Blur. Yea the physics may have its flaws but its behaviour being realistic isn't the problem. It just needs to feel good to play which i'd argue all three succeed with
Vehicle physics matter in "arcade racers"? I think we both then disagree what "arcade racer" really means. Vehicle physics matter in racing simulators like Grand Tourismo. But in games like Ridge Racer they do not.
We simply don't get any arcade racers anymore. Onrush was so much fun, MotorStorm. Nothing like those games out anymore. And don't even get me started on car combat. Nothing on the market is out for the genre. Twisted Metal or Vigilante 8 need a solid reboot.
I really dont understand the car companies opinion about car damage in games. A good racing game with a good damage model on cars is a better ad then their actual ads. Nobody would think " rrggg i hate ford so iam going to destroy all fords in the game over and over again." Except of some kids maybe. But i have to say i like unlicensed cars in some games too. Just for the creativity of some developers.
Actually I think older Forza games used to have some gnarly damage models, especially compared to Gran Turismo, in fact to this day Forza had more extreme damage that GT.
I hate NFS 2012 rivel grid 2 no down force at all. Why make cars go so fast and turn way harder, jump and drift do not effect by speed. Higher speed = higher down force. Even the OG Underground 2 have these physics, there's no reason new game do not include it.
Where can one watch the full version of the Synetic clip at 5:00? I assume this is some kind of behind the scenes / making of / interview video so I'd like to watch it.
Counterpoint: about half the games you talked about were simcades, the middle ground between simulation and arcade. Forza Horizon 5 and DiRT 5 are certainly not arcade racers. Though someone else could probably explain the difference better than me, I think the difference is that simcade is still mostly based in realism, you can’t do crazy stuff without crazy circumstances, while arcade allows you be sideways as much as you want.
Forza Horizon 5 and DIRT 5 are definitely arcade racers in their mechanics. Not like Burnout levels of arcade but they are lean much more into the unrealistic arcade side than the balanced middle ground of simcade. Something like Forza Motorsport is a simcade.
Forza Horizon 5 and DiRT 5 cars feel like toys in comparison to Forza Motorsport which always has been a simcade. Meanwhile DiRT is slightly grounded yet easy pickup. but DiRT 5 it's too arcadey in comparison to the first 3 DiRT games.
I agree with everything! Why shouldn't we be getting a game with good physics without it being a linear close track sim racer. I use games as therapy as a former IRL street racer, and I need the games to be realistic with a wheel but at the same time open, the only games that give me the feel I need are the Forza Horizon games. I can get that feel also with Ghost era Need For Speed games using Unite mods and realistic physics mods, or Assetto Corsa with open map mods. Gran Turismo 7 does kinda intrigue me too as it features the Wangan as a track. The only track racing game I think I'll be playing for a long time is something that could be competitive but not too serious like iRacing or something like that. My vision is something like Counter Strike meets Gran Turismo :)
@@GamerAlexVideos I watched Buildzoid play Unbound on stream a good few times and damn that game is ass. I'll take MW05 or Carbon over Unbound any time of the week with how crap the physics in UB are.
Yea I don't have a lot of GRID 2019 clips on hand so I threw those in. I know that at least the one with the Plymouth was my fault, but the Porsche one was super weird as the vehicles are so sticky like I should have spun out if anything.
@@GamerAlexVideos theres a weird subtle bug to the game u can pnly fix by playing cautiously. The game's traction curve is fucking insanely soft with actual car physics. This means the cars do not snap so its easy to push them for the arcade experience, but on berms the weight transfer fucks with it and makes u have more grip INSIDE than u do outside. I think the devs talk about it somewhere. U have to slightly underdrive the moment u transfer weight. Or weaken rollbars in game tuning.
I'd like to point out that Forza Horizon 5 as well as all previous Forza games until 15 years ago actually have a terrible physics engine. If you've ever collided with another car, or a wall, or anything else, you'll know what I mean. Forza just happens to have an above average, dare I say realistic, tyre friction model that lifts the overall vehicle handling up from garbage tier to actually being enjoyable until there's any kind of collisions involved.
Can you really talk about vehicle physics without mentioning Road Trip Adventure? I know it looks awful, but you can't help but just laugh when your car spontaneously launches because you hit even a single polygon at a weird angle.
Fun fact: one streamer sent a mail to codemasters to ask them why GRID 2's damage model was weaker than GRID's. Turns out, Codemasters made a lot of car companies displeased with GRID's damage model.
Ooo, do you have a link for that? I'd love to see it!
@@GamerAlexVideos I'd like to refute that Ford statement since you can pretty much wreck Fords remorselessly in NFS Undercover and Dirt Rally 2 which might factor to the audience shift over the time, where car damages might be considered violence according to ESRB and PEGI these days
@@adlibbed2138 I really think it's a esrb and dev effort thing. Since games are more targeting the youth too much,they want less edgy and mature content. And for dev effort, well we all know devs are just too lazy to make a good racing game nowadays. However it is definitely possible for games to have damageable licensed cars as shown with manufacturer crossovers with shooter games like Ferrari with fortnite, freefire with McLaren and COD with Hummer.
@@Bufuice yeah, hence why I said you can pretty much wreck Fords to your heart contents in NFS Undercover, in that game where it centers around illegal street racing, which wouldn't completely fly to today's car companies like Toyota, Peugeot, and Renault' mindsets in the 2023
Dayum 😳
Great graphics eventually get old. Great physics engines never die. I wish game developers would understand this again and adjust their priorities. Thanks Gamer Alex for being the one who finally addresses this issue in the racing game genre. Great video.
graphics $ell.... gameplay keeps you playing... but these big businesses dont want you playing the same old games for a 100 years. they need to sell the new shtt
Arcade racers are designed on purpose to be unrealistic, that's the whole point, if you want realistic physics then go play Sim racing games
This video was spot on. As we’re currently in the stagnant era of racing games- I really like how you cover these issues in a objective and unbiased manner without leaving out any pros and cons. We need more people like this in the racing game scene.
Arcade racing games are built with unrealistic physics by design, that's the whole point, you do realize arcade racing games have always had unrealistic physics by design, arcade means unrealistic, Sim means realistic, and simcade is somewhere in between
The whole damage and license thing is just stupid
The car manufacturers do not mind their cars being destroyed in movies, even in some movies where they sponsored/had direct involvement you see their cars being destroyed
Bmw paid to have the z8 in a 007 movie and the car was literally split in half there
And on top of that if you want to see any licensed car being destroyed all you have to do is type on TH-cam car from manufacturer x crash (example Audi crash) and you’ll find plenty of videos
Why do car manufacturers only care about car damage when it’s a virtual car on a video game? How many modern games you can even lose a bumper of a licensed car? It’s ridiculous honestly
To answer the last paragraph of your comment, it's the same old "ViDeO gAmE cAyUsEd vi0LeNcE" type of crankery
where there is this news media that's actually putting Driveclub, and some other games like Minecraft and Fortnite, like how is the racing games like Driveclub had anything to do with that tired discussion?
@@adlibbed2138 yeah pretty much
Those ppl are unbelievably stupid
Yes I fucking hate this, makes me even more pissed that it will probably never change - it will only get worse
Racing games are fucking doomed to being nothing but an ad for cringe manufactures
Like if they are a bunch of old boomers that doesn't understand the videogame industry. Especially the racing genre.
@@adlibbed2138 "car gore" is a real thing I guess lmao
It baffled me how many people attributed lack of realistic car damage as "developer laziness" as I've always thought that car licensing being to blame was common knowledge.
In defense of GRIP, hard to drive with little downforce was the point. The entire point of GRIP was that it was a reboot of an old game called Rollcage which had similar characteristics. Honestly they succeeded in my opinion, though I’ll admit they do need a little bit more aerodynamic grip
Thank god for Wreckfest.
I find it baffling that Ubisoft managed to make Driver San Francisco with incredible gameplay and physics and then somehow manage to go backwards in quality with the Crew 2 just 7 years later it just makes no sense to me
Technically different developers. Most of Driver devs went to make Watchdogs and the driving in that series is somehow still much better than The Crew.
@@shira_yone Didn't they also work on the crew series? I was certain I heard somewhere that they worked on that series along with Watch Dogs
@@SlurpyPie The Crew is mostly developed by ex-Eden Games (French) people now in a new studio called Ivory Tower, who did Test Drive Unlimited; if you wondered why The Crew is obsessed with massive map, and now goes back to Hawaii, that's why.
Driver SanFran is developed by Reflections (British), no idea why but Brits are so much better at making racing games in general (such as old Codemasters and old Playground Games).
Both driver San Francisco and the crew 2 both have unrealistic physics by design, they are both arcade games, that's what arcade means, if you want realistic physics then go play Sim racers
@@mathewhosier9739 projecting much? Nobody has said anything about realism throughout this comment section.
_"B-but it's arcade, go play sim racers if you want good physics"_ is how you sound like, acting as if arcade physics can't be good and most importantly, bad; this is one of the most pathetic excuse people have been throwing around to defend shit arcade physics, when in reality there are many arcade racers that have great handling physics without being ultra realistic (Project Gotham Racing, Driveclub, Wreckfest, Grid Autosport, etc).
Hell, The Crew even improved the physics in Motorfest, proving that The Crew 2's physics was indeed underbaked and could've been made better.
Appreciate you putting the names of the games in the video
Amazing video my guy... I can't imagine how long it took you capture all the game footage from different games
You make a good point on fun physics being something that people will come for. BeamNG has next to no content if you ignore it's pure sandbox modes but it's endlessly entertaining because of it's damage model and off-road driving that punches ridiculously far above it's weight.
I don't get why car companies making it harder for game developers to implement proper vehicle damage. Your products do shapeshift when crashed at highspeed! And it's not your fault. Portraying your products in-game like it being made in titanium are borderline misleading.
Imagine some dumbass buying your car after playing a game where you can mow entire field full of trees with a sedan and this guy doing the same in real life and ended up in ICU. Smh.
Instead just let the dev implement vehicle damage. *But*, make them portray your car as the safest car when accident happen in semi-realistic way. People will consider buying your car after that presentation.
4:41 funny that you mention this, because The Run is exactly where Rivals gets the majority of its vehicle sim from lol. It’s essentially just The Run with a straight port of MW12’s tire model, steering code, and drift assists (internally named DriftComponent). Later games change a few more things, but even in Unbound after they refactored the whole thing, that DNA is still there. The suspension sim, for example, can be traced all the way back to ProStreet (also MW05 but it’s a bit more simple in there).
Huh, interesting. Rivals feels completely different to The Run and has brand issues like the clipping as well. I guess that is what happens when you tack on code like that.
I've recently played through original Grid Legends and RaceDriver:Grid
While tire model feels better in Legends, Racedriver:Grid's damage model, "soft" collisions without cars being glued to each other, actual compliance of suspension allowing you to better see what's going on with the car and react to going over bumps intuitively... It's just more fun.
I still wish BugBear will someday create racing game with gamemodes inspired by "serious" IRL motorsports. Few tweaks to the handling model of Wreckfest (make sliding slower and get rid of "man+clutch" advantage), features like slipstream, downforce and pitstops and it would be the ultimate arcade/simcade platform for years to come. Touring, rally, rallycross, ovals... Every motorsport that includes contact racing or light offroading could be great theme for neverending stream of DLCs.
It's the racing game of my dreams
Wreckfest is already a rallycross game, it even includes classic rallycross tracks like the Estering.
@@Oscar97o I know that it has IRL tracks, both traditional and rallycross circuits. What I meant was introduction of additional IRL inspired classes and rules (event types).
The original Grid is still my favourite racing game for various reasons but the physics and damage model are definitely two of them. Handles the balance between slidey arcade type physics and then high downforce, tightly gripping Le Mans spec cars and open wheelers well. The drift physics are absolutely my favourite in any racing game; just loose enough, high speed, just the right amount of control (even with the assists off when you have the right car)
@@Red_Beard2798 My only issue with the first Grid is that the AI just seems to cheat in the higher difficulty settings. They can take corners faster than you.
Alex: Decline of Physics in Racing Games
HP2010: *PHYSICS WAS NEVER AN OPTION*
HP2010 is where the b2d feels good, every car is generally responsive to your inputs unlike later entries
Just got recommended this video and really glad I came across this. Really overlooked topic. I also noticed and disliked the recent trend that arcade racing seems to always just feel very off. Accessible and easy to pick and up play usually, sure, but also just doesn't feel right or actually fun, and most of the fun comes from other elements of the game. I know you mentioned the issues with GRID Legend's carryover physics from the previous title and the grippy drifting, but it is also one of my favorite arcade racing in the recent years and it actually does feel very nice for the most part. It is something I hope more of these arcade racers try to strive for again too, or better. Definitely agree that devs should try to stop reinventing the wheel and try to carryover what worked and do improvements over a good base.
On the topic of vehicle damage, I don't mind them getting toned down too much, but I'm also very open to the idea of games embracing more fictional cars and lawyer-friendly designs that are similar enough to the real thing while still being fictional so that developers can get loose again with damage models and what not. Especially as we have games like Forza and Gran Turismo already that provide that aspect of accurately turning real life cars into virtual interactive vehicles, it'd be nice to have more games embrace things in a different direction and get creative with fictional original vehicles.
Absolutely. Indie studios knows this so well and it's VERY effectve. They really should break free from the licesing hell with compromising contracts and giving more longevity to racing games.
@@b.1570 Definitely. Really hoping at least one of the big studios take a gamble and embrace fictional designs again and set up a trend someday. I even imagine this would be attractive to the higher up suits since no licensing costs from car manufacturers.
Back then with big established series like Ridge Racer and Burnout, they have so many great looking lawyer-friendly fictional cars, and even the GTA series manages to create both familiar close-to-real-life yet iconic original cars too. I think most players outside the hardcore car enthusiast crowd aren't too attached to licensed cars anyways. Sure having your Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos and stuff will attarct a crowd, but peole will be even more attracted and stay longer when the actual game is fun and full of depth. The car enthusiasts tend to also already exist in their niche ecosystem with sim racing, with most people who are really into cars dedicated to Assetto Corsa and Gran Turismo. We haven't tapped into "loves cars/racing but not exactly a licensed car enthuaist" general crowd for a while now.
The lack of downforce and bouncy suspension in GRIP, is perfect for what it is trying to emulate. I haven't played the game myself, but i have played the games it was inspired by and attempts to emulate (Rollcage 1 and 2 for the PS1). The cars in those games are supposed to be futuristic ATV's, going on any anf all surfaces, not to mention driving upside down, so flipping your car and the lack of downforce was part of the intended experience for it.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm no expert and I would love to learn more from 1st hand accounts.
When the original dirt has better car damage than your $70 AAA game you know there’s a problem
Thank you for not only being fair with your critique of Hotshot Racing's physics, but also pointing out that people still love that game. I personally love it myself despite its physics and collision shortcomings..
Even outside games classified as racing games you get dodgy physics models.
GTA 4's physics model is way superior to 5's. Honestly, people asked for it. If they don't like skill based, weighty handling and really like fancy graphics, priorities shift. OK so maybe 4's wasn't perfect, but it was something to improve rather than just replace with something really dull.
Even cartoony physics like the older GTA and Saints Row games can be fun, better than some middling nonsense that just wants you to go to place A and B in the most grippy way possible.
The real problem, is that they're designing the handling model for the wrong game.
Take Blur for instance. That game has terrible handling, (cars slide out easily, driving is kind of inconsistent, you have to go unfathomably slow to make a turn) but it works because the game is designed for it. The boost cancels sideways momentum, the tracks are extremely wide and full of just straight paths, and they don't really try to distract the player from what's important in the game. (The powerups)
DiRT 5, may not have the best handling, but it's extremely similar to Motorstorm. Which is well known for it's wide roads and splitting pathways, which happens to work well with handling model like Motorstorm's.
All you need to do is just create the right game for the physics.
Hotshot Racing, that game already has a good handling model, in my opinion. All you need to do is just make the physics a bit less goofy, and then it'll be just fine (And even then, the physics are better than Ridge Racer, which has similar handling)
With DiRT 5, wider roads and more paths (like Motorstorm) would work a lot better than just basic roads in that game
GRIP, that game doesn't need as crazy of roads as it does, maybe tone down the tracks a little, but keep the wide roads and it'll be just fine.
GRID Legends is the other case. Maybe lean _a bit_ more on the arcade side, and then you could make it work better.
The Crew 2... yeah that game just isn't salvageable no matter what you do. Never let Ubisoft make a racing game, folks.
Say what you will about GRID 2, I still believe it has a better handling model than future Codemasters games.
5:31 honestly if I ever make a car company, I wouldn’t mind game developers using my car models used in racing games for destruction I’d be fine with it🤷♂️
Good luck with surviving the onslaught of people making fun of your car’s crash vulnerabilities.
Split/Second had some weird, physics with some of their cars. The major issue i had with it was the double accelerate drifting
as long as reviewers keep praising forza horizon, nothing will change for racing games
Most underrated channel by far
I fully agree with the exceptional physics in "Dirt 2" & "Flatout Ultimate Carnage". It's wonderful hearing someone mention this as I too love racing games & am often dissatisfied with arcade racers today. "Need For Speed The Run" is my favorite in the vast series, it's refreshing to hear your opinions on all this! A big thumbs up & a enthusiastic sub from me my friend. I love the content!
Gotta stop hating on arcade games. F-Zero GX, Midnight Club 3, Ridge Racer 7 aren't realistic at all, yet they have great/fun physics. Theres good arcade physics and bad arcade physics. Just like sims... Theres good sim physics and bad sim physics too.
I love how a sub 10 minute video describes why I haven't touched a new racing game in nearly 15 years...
It's not just arcade racing. Richard Burns Rally remains the gold standard for rally racing physics and probably all sim racing too. It's still played today and knocks all other rally games outta the park. It was made in 2004...
yeh yeh dick burns rally is the best sim whatever
Absolutely not, RBR vanilla physics are inferior to dirt rally 2.0
RBR with a shit ton of mods on the other hand do indeed have superior physics though
@@TheSultan1470 Lol at you liking your own comment. Most beta thing ever...
@@Puntatacosimuladores Fair point, well made. Still amazing that such an old platform can be modded to be market leaders though...
@@Eat-MyGoal Indeed, the modding community does manage to pull out several impressive stuff and keep several old games alive
I mean, look at NR2003, GTR 2, og rFactor and I guess you can even call Assetto Corsa old by now, and the modding community manage to keep those games alive
I miss Midnight Club. There's not a single other game series that combines such high level of car handling with tight open map design where almost every street corner feels entirely different when tackled from a different direction, if not downright driven straight through.
I miss playing that game. And the original GRID
For me Midnight Club 3 was the peak, LA's physics felt like a step back in most regards, though I did love the inclusion of in-car-view.
@@scottthewaterwarrior Honestly I agree. LA has fantastic immersion and details, but the race design is mostly far too simple, too many races repeat the same parts of the map in the same ways, the career progression is very lacking, and the overall gameplay pacing is much slower by comparison to 2 and 3.
@@Arexion5293 I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that!!! I hated the late game because of the repetitious nature... The map felt so underutilized in that game it's incredible. My favorite part was that you could play both with a Black Box NFS style tighter handling style or the loose and frenetic MC handling style. Simply by choosing the brake or hand brake. That, the cockpit view and customization were the only things I think it did better than 3, otherwise 3 did laps around it.
Going to an arcade recently and seeing the only racing game there was the new Cruisin’ game with one pedal hurt my soul
Still a surprisely fun game though!
@@GamerAlexVideos It was alright, I just wish I could have been playing either Outrun or the Grid arcade instead
That game also commits the cardinal sin for an arcade racer: if you win first place, you are still asked to insert more money!
@@scottthewaterwarrior
In Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune series of cabinet arcade racing games, it’s free credits for first place for PVP. But in Story Mode and Ghost Battles, it doesn’t.
2:40 same bro, Crash Time 4 psychics are amazing
7:17 NFS Rivals physics were fun though. Cars had different weight groups, nice drifting, and crash detection was also good. Only problem was crash physics felt bit weird.
Ah yes, I love falling through the ground while driving completely straight.
You mentioned GRID, among other things. I agree that the handling could be better. But the thing is that I hated the handling of GRID 2019 so much, but on the other hand I think GRID Legend is the 100% better game. They probably only made tiny changes. But they have made a huge difference for me.
As for Forza Horizon 5. Great handling, boring game for me....
I still say the best physics in racing games belongs to the WipEout series. Particularly Omega Collection. Tight handling, almost straddling into simulation territory (you know, as far as a futuristic racer _can_ go at least).
But even that doesn't do damage modelling any more. That was last seen in WipEout Fusion!
AFAIK, damage modeling was only present in Fusion, as a damage model. And I kind oc like the floatier physics of the PS1 Wipeouts better, but yeah, the the HD era Wipeout was and is pretty good for what it is.
Yeah, because there's barely any physics to account for compared to proper racing games
Too true. I really want a good arcade Racer again. It's why I've gotten more drawn to simracing tbh. At least there physics have improved, rather than gotten worse.
i love the burnout 1 song in the background :)
The thing that irritates me from car makers is the fact they make their race cars to compete and car wrecks does happen in motorsports and they try the absolute best to keep their cars intact or rather fully scarred throuthout the race and nothing is more gratifying than finishing a race with a beated out car. Why they have to limit that to a videogame? It's not real life. (GRID 2019's and Legends trying to bring NASCAR like and demolition derby without the main important and fun part with limited physics is SUPER underwhelming).
That's what made Codemasters so notorious with their games. from TOCA to Grid and the Colin Mcrae rally games because there aren't anything more thrilling than the knowing the limits if you damage your car enough and be out for good. Which makes sense for games that try to emphasise the motosport experience for a casual audience. Something that even simulators can't provide besides BeamNG and RBR. Yeah, Grid and Dirt brought me to motorsports and potentially Simracing (even tho I dislike sim elitism).
For game development, Destruction is a advanced feature for next gen gaming... meanwhile manufactureres don't actually want to see that way. That's why I think racing game devs should try to bring new IP's without compromissing their games with licensed cars and do similarly to BugBear did with Wreckfest, Rockstar with GTA Online cars, art of rally, The CarX series and so many others. Creating similar couterparts to real life cars with fictional parts and names and avoiding all the licesing hell, having more creative freedom and giving more longevity to racing games to not be potentially dislisted in the future. Same applies to car parts, music, and even locations. That's what I believe.
Thank you for making this video, this had to be told at last
Drifting in Unbound is sooo annoying. The player isn't given full control of the car's drift angle in a way that it can only turn inwards but not outwards. Cars randomly straighten up or just go off the road because they need to much speed to go sideways.
It's funny because I remember something like that with NFS Carbon all the way back in 2006... But that game made it too easy...
To me good physics in a arcade racer is mendatory, it's why I stopped playing The Crew dispite the concept being super fun, but I wasn't expecting driving a brick
not to mention that driveclub also had incredible physics for an arcade racer. not entirely accurate to real car behaviour but it was always predictable, had a proper learning curve and was always fun to drive
Dirt 5 is very clearly not meant to be realistic. They passed that torch to Dirt Rally 2.0 so they could do something less strict and fun for the casual gamer. Besides, you don't need exact physics to convey consequences and that game struck it pretty well. The moment you disrespect the terrain in Dirt 5, it shoves you face first into a wall or throws you off the course. The 90s Rally class of cars are too fast and fun to drive to care about proper physics since you're too busy brawling in a pack with the other cars going flat out through a rock trench. And the throwdowns genuinely feel like a duel.
Even though the physics aren't supposed to be realistic, as 'arcade' physics they absolutely suck. I covered that more so in my Gravel vs DIRT 5 video.
One of the reason why a new game engine/upgrade is needed is because some old engines have issues with some consoles or to reduce difficulties.
The Hedgehog Engine, for SEGA's Sonic The Hedgehog, is an example. They explained they needed an upgrade because HE1 somehow didn't worked well for the PS4 and Xbone, and why the Hedgehog Engine 2 existed.
Counter-Strike 2 isn't technically a "new" game, it's just CS:GO for Source 2 as the original Source coding script was a nightmare.
And DICE announced they will be abandoning the Frostbite Engine after the huge disaster Battlefield 2048 faced in favor of Unreal Engine.
I'm not sure if many of these racing games you showed where made with Unity, but after the disaster of bad decisions that led people abandoning Unity, hopefully new engines like Unreal and Godot helps the physics issues. (I'm no expert in game engine, so don't take my words seriously)
5:43 that's only partly true, in most cases for explosions they used unlicenced cars, but there is also licenced ford truck which might explode as well
Really good video, i would go as far as to say the physics are the most important aspect in racing games.
Super street racer is my favorite example, the game is really buggy, unfinished and so on. Buth the physics are so much fun that i sometimes find myself just driving around to enjoy them.
To this day Dirt 2 is still one of the best games I've ever played
Greatr video! I would recommend you increase the volume however, it's hard to hear.
and that's why car games are so boring nowadays, thanks for this video, finally someone sane who doesn't just focus on the graphics, good video, I wish companies would see it
Wow, someone who played Cross Race Championship, one of my favorite racing games, it feels like you are driving a car.
I always though that a great arcade racing game is the one with the best physics engine who simulates everything but in a "cinematic" exaggerated way.
Flat Out 1 was awesome for example.
The original grid was out of this world.
I still play Richard Burns Rally despite it's age, and it's because the physic engine just feel right.
Driver san francisco had some cool physics. still playing it. it really feels like those 70's chasing movies.
I made my own 3D car game with fairly advanced physics using Unity's rigid bodies and making my own soft body physics engine, and I can assure you that no a physics engine isn't that complicated, especially on a racing game where it doesn't really simulate the suspension parts and all that sort of thing.
Vehicle physics are the biggest reason why I like most car games that I like! I love FlatOut because of the feeling that you're controlling an actual physical object, instead of one of those electric rail car toys like most games. Taking jumps carefully to not flip and land straight, crashing into other cars, feels awesome
Agreed... And people gotta stop hating on arcade games too. F-Zero GX, Midnight Club 3, Ridge Racer 7 aren't realistic at all, yet they have great/fun physics. Theres good arcade physics and bad arcade physics. Just like sims... Theres good sim physics and bad sim physics too.
@@ScorpionF1RE_USA You're right! I like simulation physics the best, but arcade ones also deserve love
Wreckfest physics and online racing make this my favorite. Drivers win Wreckfest, cars win Forza online.
Art of rally has great physics with minimal graphics, play it daily.
"kerbs spin you out.."
like yes when you enter it wrong way
I'm a bit confused now. you seperated simulation games from arcade ones at the begining but still you showed both.. Anyways if it's about physics they are holding back arcade games most of the time so they only work for simulation titles if you ask me.
Ironically enough i recall some very famous series at their start like gran tourismo, touka, ridge racer and other games like that were like total bricks on a slide back then XD.
I was trying to say that while simulation racing physics have improved, arcade racing physics in comparison have only gotten worse. It was just merely a comparison and not trying to say that sims somehow negatively affected the physics design for arcade racers.
i like your video so much :) , im creating a racing game and your analyse are realy helpful :)
Motorstorm as great physics too. Also Motorstorm apocalypse is the only one compatible with steering wheels and is very nervous driving (PS: If you try to play Motorsortm Apocalypse with racing wheel to fix forcefeedback bug. Update the game. Turn on your ps3 manualy with wheel connected. The wheel need to be controller one. Once on the ps3 menu turn your wheel complely left and right, press pedals to calibrate the wheel and start the game. When your on the race, the wheel will only vibrate and to fix the full forcefeedback you need to pause the game, go to controller, go back, unpause then play the game with full forcefeedback feature! Little annoying bug! You have to do this process each time you quit the game)
Talking abaut Wreckfest, someone can explain why WHY vehicles when crash in to the hood or trunk, they deformation goes to down, and not like Driver games or BeamNG for example?? I explain? I know Wreckfest is not centered in simulation but its a game focused in destruction derby races and the level of detail and deformation needs to be almost close to the reality.
Personally feels more better and solid hit cars in Driver San Francisco than Wreckfest.
I think there's a simple way to describe this part of racing. A good racing game physics engine is the one you don't talk about (because it means it's not getting in the way of your experience).
I get where you are coming from, but I don't fully agree since great physics engines are talked about as well. I've certainly talked about my favorite physics in racing games to others before.
I still play flat out ultimate carnage on my PSP ( Playstation Portable ) - I don't get how modern games ( Excepting BeamNG ) seem to have worse physics these days when we have exponentially more processing power to use.
Sad that you didn't mention Motorstorm franchise. Burnout and Motorstorm franchise has the best vehicle destruction physics. And probably the most satisfactory.
Very impressive analysis and talking points.
someone finally mentioned that crash time exists
thank you, finally somebody dares to criticize Codemasters' wierd-ass driving physic :D Good job :)
I can't wait for Crash Time 4 to be on steam.
Im not gonna lie, i think both Dirt 5 and Grid Legends are the best of their series, when it comes to physics, car lists, track lists, career modes and fun factor they are the best of their series
I still think Codemasters could make a badass Street-Racing Underground-Themed game by recycling Grid 2's physics, improving the AI to be able to utilize it, add police and customization, with some storyline to it. Perhaps a game called "Off the Grid".. actually that's what I think Grid 2 should have been.
GRID 2008 was the pinnicle of racing physics
I feel insulted for not having motorstorm apocalipse mentioned
I can't mention them all!
sensetive crash hitpoint
like every Criterion games ever since Burnout 3
4:43 nope, The Run is an exceptional game in terms of setting. 90% of the tracks in this game are highways, which means fewer turns and the handling suited that. It would not have worked in Rivals.
There were plenty of sharp turns in The Run as well. So I don't think it was out of the realm of possibilities to keep the engine and tweak it instead of making a whole new one.
The sad thing about unbound is that the grip is actually well put together, but because of hoe unbalanced it is, it causes more issues then not.
how did flatout ultimate carnage do it so well?
What was the second last game? Oh I would be soo happy if you smacked a name on the clips. many of these seems fun but I have a hard time finding arcade games I like.
It's Crash Time 5. I had mentioned it earlier in the video!
@@GamerAlexVideos Oh sorry! thanks!
Bit late to be making a comment but with your point on the physics with Need for Speed most wanted 2005, Burnout Revenge and Blur. Yea the physics may have its flaws but its behaviour being realistic isn't the problem. It just needs to feel good to play which i'd argue all three succeed with
Vehicle physics matter in "arcade racers"? I think we both then disagree what "arcade racer" really means. Vehicle physics matter in racing simulators like Grand Tourismo. But in games like Ridge Racer they do not.
Uh no. Even arcade racers have some type of physics. It might not be 'real word' physics, but it still has to be there so a car can feel like a car.
We simply don't get any arcade racers anymore. Onrush was so much fun, MotorStorm. Nothing like those games out anymore. And don't even get me started on car combat. Nothing on the market is out for the genre. Twisted Metal or Vigilante 8 need a solid reboot.
Trailout?
I really dont understand the car companies opinion about car damage in games. A good racing game with a good damage model on cars is a better ad then their actual ads.
Nobody would think " rrggg i hate ford so iam going to destroy all fords in the game over and over again." Except of some kids maybe.
But i have to say i like unlicensed cars in some games too. Just for the creativity of some developers.
GRiD legends getting the love it deserves!
interesting notes
Great video
0:37 Wreckfest
Actually I think older Forza games used to have some gnarly damage models, especially compared to Gran Turismo, in fact to this day Forza had more extreme damage that GT.
Driver San Francisco was fantastic
this is the same reason Rockstar will never add licensed cars to GTA.
No mention of motorstorm pacific rift 🤔
its hard to follow the video without knowing which game is played on screen
I hate NFS 2012 rivel grid 2 no down force at all. Why make cars go so fast and turn way harder, jump and drift do not effect by speed. Higher speed = higher down force. Even the OG Underground 2 have these physics, there's no reason new game do not include it.
Where can one watch the full version of the Synetic clip at 5:00? I assume this is some kind of behind the scenes / making of / interview video so I'd like to watch it.
It's from this video: th-cam.com/video/ZC6_J-Od-p0/w-d-xo.html
@@GamerAlexVideos Thank you
Counterpoint: about half the games you talked about were simcades, the middle ground between simulation and arcade. Forza Horizon 5 and DiRT 5 are certainly not arcade racers. Though someone else could probably explain the difference better than me, I think the difference is that simcade is still mostly based in realism, you can’t do crazy stuff without crazy circumstances, while arcade allows you be sideways as much as you want.
You can go sideways faster and have more control in fh5 with properly setup car than sideways arcade auto brake to drift bs games
Forza Horizon 5 and DIRT 5 are definitely arcade racers in their mechanics. Not like Burnout levels of arcade but they are lean much more into the unrealistic arcade side than the balanced middle ground of simcade. Something like Forza Motorsport is a simcade.
Forza Horizon 5 and DiRT 5 cars feel like toys in comparison to Forza Motorsport which always has been a simcade. Meanwhile DiRT is slightly grounded yet easy pickup. but DiRT 5 it's too arcadey in comparison to the first 3 DiRT games.
I agree with everything! Why shouldn't we be getting a game with good physics without it being a linear close track sim racer.
I use games as therapy as a former IRL street racer, and I need the games to be realistic with a wheel but at the same time open, the only games that give me the feel I need are the Forza Horizon games.
I can get that feel also with Ghost era Need For Speed games using Unite mods and realistic physics mods, or Assetto Corsa with open map mods. Gran Turismo 7 does kinda intrigue me too as it features the Wangan as a track.
The only track racing game I think I'll be playing for a long time is something that could be competitive but not too serious like iRacing or something like that. My vision is something like Counter Strike meets Gran Turismo :)
>fh5
>good physics
FH5's certainly isn't the best, but it's way more solid than other recent racing games. (NFS Unbound comes to mind)
@@GamerAlexVideos I watched Buildzoid play Unbound on stream a good few times and damn that game is ass. I'll take MW05 or Carbon over Unbound any time of the week with how crap the physics in UB are.
Lowkey a lot of ur grid clips involve u driving ur rear quarter panel into a fucking car and dying.
Yea I don't have a lot of GRID 2019 clips on hand so I threw those in. I know that at least the one with the Plymouth was my fault, but the Porsche one was super weird as the vehicles are so sticky like I should have spun out if anything.
@@GamerAlexVideos theres a weird subtle bug to the game u can pnly fix by playing cautiously. The game's traction curve is fucking insanely soft with actual car physics. This means the cars do not snap so its easy to push them for the arcade experience, but on berms the weight transfer fucks with it and makes u have more grip INSIDE than u do outside. I think the devs talk about it somewhere. U have to slightly underdrive the moment u transfer weight. Or weaken rollbars in game tuning.
Bugbear always have great physics in their games
Driver SF was amazing, such shame Crew drivers like a turd
take a shot when he says physics
I'd like to point out that Forza Horizon 5 as well as all previous Forza games until 15 years ago actually have a terrible physics engine. If you've ever collided with another car, or a wall, or anything else, you'll know what I mean. Forza just happens to have an above average, dare I say realistic, tyre friction model that lifts the overall vehicle handling up from garbage tier to actually being enjoyable until there's any kind of collisions involved.
So the real problem is boring gameplay, not physics
Can you really talk about vehicle physics without mentioning Road Trip Adventure? I know it looks awful, but you can't help but just laugh when your car spontaneously launches because you hit even a single polygon at a weird angle.