V commandos stealth mechanics are “push your luck” based, SAS is a strategy puzzle, much like the old commandos PC game. You may want to take a look at this video from the Gimpy Gamer who actually had one of the preview sets for a detailed comparison th-cam.com/video/aFG2-seR8xg/w-d-xo.html
Hi Robert, I’m gonna pin this comment just so people can see that very true comparison. As a Brotherhood of Venice player which uses the same mechanics there definitely can be a pushing your luck side to it but there is a good balance of strategy there too. I can see how SAS is a much more (I’d almost say rhythmic) style of strategy with the patrol patterns and routes. The Commandos comparison is spot on. (Also I’m assuming you’re one and the same Robert that designed the game?)
@@HansVonMannschaft What's the difference? The publisher IS the company that makes the games. Unless you're talking about the company contracted to do the actual printing (manufacturing)?
This is weird advice. "Don't back this Kickstarter because you have to wait for it." That's literally all Kickstarters. Looking at the comments, it seems I'm not the only one confused by this take.
There are indeed instances where it feels sensible to have at most one game in a genre / theme. If that's enough to 'scratch the itch' then that's fine, but if it's a favourite genre / theme, then that argument doesn't work as well. e.g. for someone who loves word games, they might have paperback, Just One, Codenames, So clover etc. etc. but for others 'Just One' is enough. FWIW I've appreciated Sam's willingness to engage and indeed watch that other video, and take on board the comments from Rob. It's not the dismissiveness we might see from one of the more popular UK-based content creators, but reasonable acknowledgement of a different opinion.
Hey Ian, I really appreciate your kind words. I'll always strive to be open to being wrong and hearing other peoples opinions on this kind of thing, at the end of the day what I may see as a negative/ positive may not be the same for others and that's absolutely ok :)
I am backing exactly because I own V-Commandos (actually V-Sabotage), and I am expecting a more puzzle-y alternative. It looks like I will play V-Sabotage more with children and this by my lonesome. I also like the 'slightly different' vibe that I get from the game...
It seem some one haven't played V commando neither read the rulebook of SAS. These games have the same theme but come on! The rules are just really, really, reallyyyy different. There is not even the term "LoS " in the V commando rulebook. In SaS the whole game play evolve around LoS to be spotted and shoot back. there is low and hig cover moving fast o slow, there is real interactions with environment , even noise range , the game play on squares and not only tile as 1 space, the guards have routes, yo can get into vehicules..and so on... Sensation will be so different. Please read the rules next time before giving advice.
The shop is out of apples, buy bananas, thats also fruit. That's the feeling I get from your advice. By watching your video its good to see you researched the company. you give some good advice by telling the completed campagnes they have and how they treat their customers/backers. When talking about the game itself you don't do that. I don't see a good comparison about how the mechanics work, if the rules are fidley or not and if game play is smooth. Basicly you say, they share the same theme and thus you don't need the game. Have you seen a playthrough of the game itself? there are some serious differences. It's because those differences that I sold V-Commando's last year, but I'm backing this one. I do like the way you make your video though, short and to the point, no bla bla as other makers do. But if you give a game/kickstarter a big "no" I hope you come with better arguments next time.
Author gently pointed on existence of very similar game already available for similar price. Does it exhausts the argument -probably no, but it adds to decision making.
They whole point of Kickstarter is you get a game in the (near) future, so that not a valid argument. Then he must argue that the game is very similar as you say and that's not a part of this video. So his advice isn't based on......?
@@antonnieuwkoopable but I do not want to see comparison video. i have vcommandos -enough for me just to point it out. Again, author is not an ultimate judge, feel free to disregard his personal opinion or criticize it
I think that this video has a very valid point that the game scratches the same itch as another. All the video is doing is making you think ‘will I play this if I have a very similar game?’ If you listen to what is said, Sam likes the look of this game. At no point has he downed on it. The video is just trying to make you think before you buy…
Personally I backed this because I liked the puzzley-nature of it, compared to the 'push your luck' style of V Commandos. For solo, I prefer that strategic approach instead. My only 'concern' is how replayable it will be, but I am hoping for more scenarios to be unlocked during the campaign (as well as hopefully future expansions..?), but I think the price is reasonable enough to take that risk - even if I only play through it once, it'll be worth it.
The replayability was something I was concerned about too but I'd assume that they'll likely add new ground tiles in stretch goals and/or expansions. Your thoughts on the pricing though are spot on, I think this is priced so reasonably that even if you play through it all once and decide to sell it on you'll still have gotten your moneys worth out of it.
So firstly, the way the patrol/sentry mechanics play out means that it will be different each game depending on the event cards, and thus force different tactics each time it's played. Lots of missions also have "special events" shuffled into a section of the event deck meaning that something happen *roughly* around a certain time not a set turn (eg. in the mission "head of the snake" you are trying to assassinate a German officer but at some point between card 20 & 34 a staff car with motorbike escort will drive onto the map, pick him up and he will leave) so that broad time window changes the way things play out each time it's played. Speaking of event cards, there are actually 3 different decks that are compatible with every mission that change spawns / units / events, every mission has 3 difficulties and every single thing in the game can be expanded, contracted & customised to suit. Plus, with the way that the decks/tiles/points/routes work you can design your own missions in 30 seconds. The game is an absolutely massive sandbox in both physical size and options.
@@dicesportsrob79 That sounds awesome, and I understood some of that from GimpyGamers excellent preview, so I am confident with backing this one. I put 'concern' in inverted commas because its a mild thing, my point being the reasonable cost means even if it were a problem, I know I'll get my money's worth anyway. Aug23 is going to feel like a long wait!
Really enjoy these videos well put together, informative and with no padding.. Always good to do your research on the companies as much as the game, I’ve been burnt on KS and don’t want to make that mistake again..
And a year on I have just heard of this game. A year on V-Commando only seems to be available on eBay for quite a high cost so, whilst your assessment was valid and probably correct at the time, i imagine now that may have changed. I have just backed a late pledge for the 'all-in' package which i am looking forward to. Thank you for this video, and others, on this item 👍
Unless they've ran out of US stock you can buy direct from Triton Noir on their website. At the time of recording this they did still have stock to ship to the UK
ok, i GOTTA disagree. yes, they are in the same genre, but VC and RR are two different games. (full disclosure - i've never played EITHER) VC seems clunky and disjointed with its gameplay. lots of 'roll the dice to see if fate allows you to remain hidden' and 'this random card makes EVERY AI on the board go left/right/up/down for no reason' stuff. it's not as refined as RR. RR appears to be as close as a tabletop game could get to the old Commandos video game. it's more technique/puzzle solving than roll-of-the-dice-fate. also, RR is larger and more of an 'open world' experience. and the AI rules in RR make SO MUCH more sense than VC! so your suggestion to not back is 1) based on there is already a (worse, IMHO) game of this genre out there, and 2) it'll take a few months of waiting to get RR? got it. everyone is entitled to their opinion. i'm just giving a little pushback on your reasoning. (hopefully respectfully)
Wait, wait! So you're saying we shouldn't back a Kickstarter because it's similar to a game already in print? We'll I guess that shoots the shit out of 45% of the minis-on-boards-with-stamped-dice Kickstarters. LOL.
Clearly the publisher did not pay their protection money this month??? LOL 'Don't buy other games are the same and available today.' As one Deisgner mentioned ot me - that covers 75% of all games available in the market place today. If you dont have something of value to say, with definitive reasons, why post a 'click bait' video like this? I'll take Nates opinion over this sort of silly view grabber post.
@@benjarvie6201 bc the the pov 4:30 is total BS he had read the rules he would know the 2 games have so much differences. There is not even the term "LoS " in the V commando rules book. In SaS the whole game play evolve around LoS to be spotted and shoot. You also have low and hig cover, you get a real interaction with environment , even noise range , the game play on squares and not only tile as a space, the guard have route..and so on... Sensation will be so different.
@@krusty1796 i am not going to disagree with you as you have your opinion on the game. Which was the point I was making, everyone is entitled to their opinion, The producer of this video is perfectly entitled to give their opinion in the game, as you have just done. For me, I have limited funds and I don’t want another game that may scratch the same itch as another game I already own. So for me this video is useful. I may have been for you as well, you have disagreed with the opinion for your reasons and will be backing this project. That’s great. The game looks quite good. I hope you enjoy it and have lots of fun with it. :)
@@benjarvie6201 This is why his purpose is off. SAS don't scratch the same itch as V-C. Their is no pt to disagree with me sometime statement are false as his. I own V-C and they are totally different apart from the theme. What he said is like saying all games with the same theme are the same and that is just not true. Because in reality what is important is the game's mechanisms first. And he is not making his purpose around that. The fact we do reskin of games explain it itself we don't do re-mechanism changing all mechanisms of a game and calling it the same game . It's like saying ie great western trail and western legends are the same games. Or saying Andor is the same as lords of the ring journey in the middle earth. I could agree with him base on viable demonstration. But here 1st he hasn't done it and 2nd it's not possible. Since if we compare the ruleset we will see they are really different. Regarding the game itself until I haven't try it my self on TTS, I will not defend it much neither back it till then. It look cool but is it really? That's a different pt than saying they are the same. This is an other pt, this video don't really talk about the gameplay correctly. When you do a public statement the basic to do it fairly for the viewers.
I'm always looking for new content so thought I'd give you a look. The video is OK, but the title is in my opinion click baity. This puts me off watching anymore of your videos.
V commandos stealth mechanics are “push your luck” based, SAS is a strategy puzzle, much like the old commandos PC game. You may want to take a look at this video from the Gimpy Gamer who actually had one of the preview sets for a detailed comparison th-cam.com/video/aFG2-seR8xg/w-d-xo.html
Hi Robert, I’m gonna pin this comment just so people can see that very true comparison. As a Brotherhood of Venice player which uses the same mechanics there definitely can be a pushing your luck side to it but there is a good balance of strategy there too. I can see how SAS is a much more (I’d almost say rhythmic) style of strategy with the patrol patterns and routes. The Commandos comparison is spot on.
(Also I’m assuming you’re one and the same Robert that designed the game?)
Yes, I’m the designer.
@@shouldyoubackit It's also worth pointing out Word Forge isn't making this game. They're just the publisher.
@@HansVonMannschaft What's the difference? The publisher IS the company that makes the games. Unless you're talking about the company contracted to do the actual printing (manufacturing)?
@@bgm-1961 Google the difference between developer and publisher.
This is weird advice. "Don't back this Kickstarter because you have to wait for it." That's literally all Kickstarters. Looking at the comments, it seems I'm not the only one confused by this take.
There are indeed instances where it feels sensible to have at most one game in a genre / theme. If that's enough to 'scratch the itch' then that's fine, but if it's a favourite genre / theme, then that argument doesn't work as well. e.g. for someone who loves word games, they might have paperback, Just One, Codenames, So clover etc. etc. but for others 'Just One' is enough.
FWIW I've appreciated Sam's willingness to engage and indeed watch that other video, and take on board the comments from Rob. It's not the dismissiveness we might see from one of the more popular UK-based content creators, but reasonable acknowledgement of a different opinion.
Hey Ian, I really appreciate your kind words. I'll always strive to be open to being wrong and hearing other peoples opinions on this kind of thing, at the end of the day what I may see as a negative/ positive may not be the same for others and that's absolutely ok :)
Really like these videos! Short and concise, no fat to trim and regular uploads! Wish you great success with this channel!
Thanks Tharuk, I really appreciate that.
I am backing exactly because I own V-Commandos (actually V-Sabotage), and I am expecting a more puzzle-y alternative. It looks like I will play V-Sabotage more with children and this by my lonesome. I also like the 'slightly different' vibe that I get from the game...
There’s definitely space for both
It seem some one haven't played V commando neither read the rulebook of SAS.
These games have the same theme but come on!
The rules are just really, really, reallyyyy different. There is not even the term "LoS " in the V commando rulebook.
In SaS the whole game play evolve around LoS to be spotted and shoot back. there is low and hig cover moving fast o slow, there is real interactions with environment , even noise range , the game play on squares and not only tile as 1 space, the guards have routes, yo can get into vehicules..and so on... Sensation will be so different.
Please read the rules next time before giving advice.
The shop is out of apples, buy bananas, thats also fruit.
That's the feeling I get from your advice.
By watching your video its good to see you researched the company. you give some good advice by telling the completed campagnes they have and how they treat their customers/backers.
When talking about the game itself you don't do that. I don't see a good comparison about how the mechanics work, if the rules are fidley or not and if game play is smooth. Basicly you say, they share the same theme and thus you don't need the game. Have you seen a playthrough of the game itself? there are some serious differences. It's because those differences that I sold V-Commando's last year, but I'm backing this one.
I do like the way you make your video though, short and to the point, no bla bla as other makers do. But if you give a game/kickstarter a big "no" I hope you come with better arguments next time.
Author gently pointed on existence of very similar game already available for similar price. Does it exhausts the argument -probably no, but it adds to decision making.
They whole point of Kickstarter is you get a game in the (near) future, so that not a valid argument. Then he must argue that the game is very similar as you say and that's not a part of this video. So his advice isn't based on......?
@@antonnieuwkoopable but I do not want to see comparison video. i have vcommandos -enough for me just to point it out. Again, author is not an ultimate judge, feel free to disregard his personal opinion or criticize it
I think that this video has a very valid point that the game scratches the same itch as another. All the video is doing is making you think ‘will I play this if I have a very similar game?’
If you listen to what is said, Sam likes the look of this game. At no point has he downed on it. The video is just trying to make you think before you buy…
Personally I backed this because I liked the puzzley-nature of it, compared to the 'push your luck' style of V Commandos. For solo, I prefer that strategic approach instead. My only 'concern' is how replayable it will be, but I am hoping for more scenarios to be unlocked during the campaign (as well as hopefully future expansions..?), but I think the price is reasonable enough to take that risk - even if I only play through it once, it'll be worth it.
The replayability was something I was concerned about too but I'd assume that they'll likely add new ground tiles in stretch goals and/or expansions. Your thoughts on the pricing though are spot on, I think this is priced so reasonably that even if you play through it all once and decide to sell it on you'll still have gotten your moneys worth out of it.
So firstly, the way the patrol/sentry mechanics play out means that it will be different each game depending on the event cards, and thus force different tactics each time it's played. Lots of missions also have "special events" shuffled into a section of the event deck meaning that something happen *roughly* around a certain time not a set turn (eg. in the mission "head of the snake" you are trying to assassinate a German officer but at some point between card 20 & 34 a staff car with motorbike escort will drive onto the map, pick him up and he will leave) so that broad time window changes the way things play out each time it's played. Speaking of event cards, there are actually 3 different decks that are compatible with every mission that change spawns / units / events, every mission has 3 difficulties and every single thing in the game can be expanded, contracted & customised to suit. Plus, with the way that the decks/tiles/points/routes work you can design your own missions in 30 seconds. The game is an absolutely massive sandbox in both physical size and options.
@@dicesportsrob79 That sounds awesome, and I understood some of that from GimpyGamers excellent preview, so I am confident with backing this one. I put 'concern' in inverted commas because its a mild thing, my point being the reasonable cost means even if it were a problem, I know I'll get my money's worth anyway. Aug23 is going to feel like a long wait!
Really enjoy these videos well put together, informative and with no padding..
Always good to do your research on the companies as much as the game, I’ve been burnt on KS and don’t want to make that mistake again..
And a year on I have just heard of this game. A year on V-Commando only seems to be available on eBay for quite a high cost so, whilst your assessment was valid and probably correct at the time, i imagine now that may have changed. I have just backed a late pledge for the 'all-in' package which i am looking forward to. Thank you for this video, and others, on this item 👍
Let me know what you think of it when it arrives!
V Commandos is not available here in the US. Looked all over online. Guess I'm backing this. Unless someone can send me a link.
Unless they've ran out of US stock you can buy direct from Triton Noir on their website. At the time of recording this they did still have stock to ship to the UK
I will say though, even if you could get your hands on V-Commandos or you think you like the gameplay loop, this is still a valid option
ok, i GOTTA disagree. yes, they are in the same genre, but VC and RR are two different games. (full disclosure - i've never played EITHER) VC seems clunky and disjointed with its gameplay. lots of 'roll the dice to see if fate allows you to remain hidden' and 'this random card makes EVERY AI on the board go left/right/up/down for no reason' stuff. it's not as refined as RR. RR appears to be as close as a tabletop game could get to the old Commandos video game. it's more technique/puzzle solving than roll-of-the-dice-fate. also, RR is larger and more of an 'open world' experience. and the AI rules in RR make SO MUCH more sense than VC!
so your suggestion to not back is 1) based on there is already a (worse, IMHO) game of this genre out there, and 2) it'll take a few months of waiting to get RR? got it.
everyone is entitled to their opinion. i'm just giving a little pushback on your reasoning. (hopefully respectfully)
Wait, wait! So you're saying we shouldn't back a Kickstarter because it's similar to a game already in print? We'll I guess that shoots the shit out of 45% of the minis-on-boards-with-stamped-dice Kickstarters. LOL.
😂
exactly!
Please do Heroes III! :)
I think I’ll be doing a late pledge video on it :)
Clearly the publisher did not pay their protection money this month??? LOL
'Don't buy other games are the same and available today.' As one Deisgner mentioned ot me - that covers 75% of all games available in the market place today. If you dont have something of value to say, with definitive reasons, why post a 'click bait' video like this? I'll take Nates opinion over this sort of silly view grabber post.
Out of interest how is this not of value?
@@benjarvie6201 bc the the pov 4:30 is total BS he had read the rules he would know the 2 games have so much differences.
There is not even the term "LoS " in the V commando rules book. In SaS the whole game play evolve around LoS to be spotted and shoot. You also have low and hig cover, you get a real interaction with environment , even noise range , the game play on squares and not only tile as a space, the guard have route..and so on... Sensation will be so different.
@@krusty1796 i am not going to disagree with you as you have your opinion on the game. Which was the point I was making, everyone is entitled to their opinion,
The producer of this video is perfectly entitled to give their opinion in the game, as you have just done.
For me, I have limited funds and I don’t want another game that may scratch the same itch as another game I already own. So for me this video is useful. I may have been for you as well, you have disagreed with the opinion for your reasons and will be backing this project. That’s great. The game looks quite good. I hope you enjoy it and have lots of fun with it. :)
@@benjarvie6201 This is why his purpose is off. SAS don't scratch the same itch as V-C. Their is no pt to disagree with me sometime statement are false as his.
I own V-C and they are totally different apart from the theme. What he said is like saying all games with the same theme are the same and that is just not true. Because in reality what is important is the game's mechanisms first. And he is not making his purpose around that.
The fact we do reskin of games explain it itself we don't do re-mechanism changing all mechanisms of a game and calling it the same game .
It's like saying ie great western trail and western legends are the same games. Or saying Andor is the same as lords of the ring journey in the middle earth.
I could agree with him base on viable demonstration. But here 1st he hasn't done it and 2nd it's not possible.
Since if we compare the ruleset we will see they are really different.
Regarding the game itself until I haven't try it my self on TTS, I will not defend it much neither back it till then.
It look cool but is it really? That's a different pt than saying they are the same.
This is an other pt, this video don't really talk about the gameplay correctly.
When you do a public statement the basic to do it fairly for the viewers.
Soo... When are you going to tell us why your name is Sam?
What do you mean?
dear author, there are again so many kickstarters threaten our sanity and purses . We hope for your help!
New videos soon :)
I'm always looking for new content so thought I'd give you a look. The video is OK, but the title is in my opinion click baity. This puts me off watching anymore of your videos.
Totally understand :) not every channel is a fit.
i indeed found VC way too similar to SAS. thank you for video
It's not like. Do some research!
very sensible reasoning.
Thanks Ian, I still think the game looks good and there’s definitely room in someone’s collection for both this and the likes of V-Commandos though