@Kris Nicholson still doesn’t mean they didn’t have reasonable grounds. The smell of cannabis can remain for some time. Even if there is no cannabis, they can be justified in searching a vehicle if there is a smell. The majority of police searches find nothing but they are still justified! So how do you prove there was no smell of cannabis?
Lets take this even one more step further... If a police officer wants to search your vehicle then a police officer will always find "reasonable" grounds by abusing said legislation's by stating that they can smell Cannabis when they don't, or suspect that you are carrying something etc hoping that you don't have a clue about the legislation they are trying to abuse !
A normal person can smell a cannabis smoker from 50 feet away. While a cannabis smoker believes that he smells just like everybody else. So yes they can smell it on you and you both know you are in possession and a search will prove the fact, thus your paranoid interpretation of their normal behavior.
@@thewizzard3150 your point doesn't stand when I don't smoke cannabis. I just live in an area where a lot of young lads do smoke. I'm 29 but could pass for early 20's and being stopped and searched is pretty much a monthly thing when I'm in my area. whether it be they can smell cannabis or a vehicle matching my description has been involved in local robberies. yet they have never found anything. it's happened so often I've found it a lot quicker to just let them search than to argue.
@@wagglycloth4547my view stands better and clearer than you after you have had a few and your mentality can pass for early teens. My regards to your local policing.
I was waiting for a lift by the side of the road and a car was pulled by the police right in front of where I was stood waiting. I could hear everything clearly and the officer, while not exactly rude to the driver, came across decidedly haughty. Mainly as the driver was, to the officer's disdain, filming the stop on his phone. After a couple of minutes of terse words between the two the officer then said out of the blue "I can smell cannabis Sir" to which the driver just laughed and pointed at something on his passenger seat which I couldn't see as hidden by the car door. The driver suddenly lowered his passenger window and urged me over with a "hey mate, stick your head in here and tell me what you smell". I admit I was curious so inhaled as I edged nearer only to be met with the unmistakable aroma of fish and chips. There was a small white paper wrapped package (obviously containing the driver's lunch fresh from the chippy) sat on his car seat. With his phone filming I instantly blurted out "Smells like fish and chips to me". You know in cartoons where a character gets mad and their face goes beetroot red and steam comes out of their ears? That's the best way I can describe the police officer's reaction. Before he stormed off back into his patrol car giving me one last angry glare as he angrily pulled his seatbelt on.
In my youth in 1980, remember a cop attending the college I was at to give a group meeting/lecture, he described how he conducted searches. One of my mates asked “what happens if they refuse you to allow the search?” The cop calmly replied, “well in that case all I need to do is say that I can smell drugs, and I can search them without their permission ” This was out if the horses mouth during a meet the public event. 🙄
That's when you should have given him some community justice and bashed the shit out of him. Cops act as they do because they believe they are immune to recourse. They're not armed in Britain and their back up is minutes away.
Actually in 1980 the police wouldn’t have even needed that. Under the sus laws all that’s as needed for search or arrest was suspicion you had done something as the Sus laws were very vague.
During a talk at school from a local Bobby on drugs he claimed that he could do a full strip search on one of the lads in my class. I told him that he couldn't, that he would be at risk of being charged with assault. The copper did not like that, he said he could do so if he wanted to. I pointed out that the lad was 15 and, therefore, legally unable to consent to such a search. Which made it an act of abuse. Ah, the good old days...
As a person who is self employed and a Van driver, the police in the past “twice” have made an excuse that, there have been a lot of vans stolen lately 🙄
So back in the late 90s, I was in a car that was stopped for a spot check. They spoke to the driver, and searched the car for "anything that shouldn't be in there". My understanding from this video, is that, that search was illegal. As far as I know, it was a random vehicle and not one matching any kind of description.
Despite what you may have heard or seen on TH-cam channels like this there is no such thing as an illegal search of a vehicle, the filth will simply say they had "reasonable suspicion" which trumps any card you or a solicitor can play.
A couple of years ago I was in a car and we were stopped and the police said the driver was wanted because he had made comments that are not approved by the state. He was arrested, beaten and later thrown out of a helicopter with a bag over his head into the North Sea..... Just a lovely glimpse of what the future may hold if the UK keeps heading down the path to tyranny.
I've never carried my insurance documents in a car, and have never known anyone who has. Would they really ask if you had them with you? Never in my experience.
I was breathalysed at 1am as the officer "smelt alcohol" - reading was ZERO - does the officer need a medical, or retraining ? Or do I complain that he is reprimanded for wasting everybody's time and police resources ? Nothing would come of it - just lies and excuses for a fishing exercise.
Very informative, curious to know how the reasonable grounds rules play out though when they search a vehicle because of a nonexistent 'strong smell of cannabis'. Even if they find nothing you cannot prove they made it up even though everyone knows they do and they'll just deny it anyway.
This is an interesting one. My immediate thought was that it's simply your word against theirs, but the fact there will be no cannabis found should presumably add more weight to your account.
Has anyone gave any credence that it may be the police officer or a police officer who smells of cannabis. In July last year SkyNews sent freedom of information requests to police forces across the whole country and it turned out that forces across the country employ at least 211 police officers and PCSOs who were guilty of crimes, according to data released under the Freedom of Information Act. For example North Wales Police said 20 police officers and five PCSOs have criminal convictions, including a sergeant convicted of assault, two officers guilty of drug possession and two officers convicted of cruelty to animals. So we can very safely assume the possibility that at least one police officer who is at a scene involving a vehicle search could actually be really smelling cannabis, but that smell could be emanating from a colleague.
@@woody41165 another interesting statistic - of all the items that ‘go missing’ from Police evidence lockers, 40% is drugs. I think you’re bang on with your point!
Mark stevens I haven't yet read any posts here contradicting BlackBeltBarrister's information, which would make them armchair lawyers. All I see people dissing the police, a large minority whom in all honesty, deserve being disrespected for their abuses against anyone who doesn't lick their boots.
William Ferguson you miss understand, I refer to people I know and I think most people would know at least one person who have watched enough tv to assume they are now a qualified Barrister.
Earlier this year the IPCC upheld a complaint (rare). they stated that an officer smelling drugs is not sufficient grounds for a search. Apparently this message has been sent out to all forces where I'm sure it's been universally ignored. Let's be honest how many times has an officer used the I can smell drugs excuse to search a person or vehicle when it suites them. Been searched twice with that one and never used drugs in my life, certainly never smoked cannabis and never smoked a cigarette in my life. Same happens with breath tests they can always smell alcohol even managed to smell it on me over three years after my last drink. Of course they will breath test you for driving erratically, apparently going around a puddle to avoid soaking pedestrians is erratic driving. They'll find any bullshit excuse that they think you'll be daft enough to put up with.
I've been stopped for crossing the centre lane marker, in a one way street, and erratic steering round a roundabout, bless em, they get so hurt, when you laugh at them for the absurd reasons for the stop.
I'm a TPCSO and recently we saw a man stop on a Zebra Crossing and drop his child off outside a school. He drove off and we followed him and were able to stop next to him and asked him to pull over in order to advise him re the crossing. As soon as he wound the window down there was a really strong smell of cannabis. A Traffic patrol was requested and we asked him to wait. Which he did. A patrol arrived, searched the car but found nothing. However, a drug wipe was carried out which proved positive and he was arrested. He wasn't issued a TOR for the crossing offence as we felt he had enough problems already.
So what punishment can the police face for wasting your time if they keep you there and you miss an appointment say for a doctor and they find nothing keeping you there for an hour?
@@thewizzard3150 It's not only happened to me, I've seen it happen to others, see them pulling someone over, I've been shopping came past again and they just letting guy on his way. Seriously police can and will find things to do to waste time and police will not charge themselves!
Yep, the worst thing you can do is tell them that you're in a hurry, they'll just smirk and keep you there for as long as they want, they're not in a hurry and have nowhere else to be until their shift ends.
@@dannyd2648 you people really don't get the whole attitude thing! Be nice and complimentry they won't keep you a minute. Growl and claim superiority, they will keep you all day and find something wrong.
@@thewizzard3150 So your saying just be a pleb? youtuber buzztex audit has just proven my point in latest vid @1hr 20mins harassing him with non-legal document at his house.
@@BillsAllotmentDiary they will ignore arrest you are you for control substance then take you down the police station and do a anal search there a vid on crime bodge
Hi BlackBeltBarrister, Fabtastic instructional and informative video - Have watched various online videos wherein a person driving a vehicle had been stopped under Section 163 and the police officer has stated that have smelled cannabis where none existed and then conducted a search of the vehicle - What defence does a person have against the police abusing their station under this basis?
I have a friend with a more than questionable criminal past. The police used the fact that they could see his work tools, considering his past in burglary as an excuse to search his vehicle. That was a fun one for him to explain to his boss.
Yeah they care that much about burglaries it takes them 3 weeks to respond ot sometimes not at all. I came home to my front door smashed and thought someone was still in there. I phoned 999 and no one came. I called them back 3 times. Eventually I had to walk to my neighbours and sat there until 6am, no one ever turned up. A week later I got a card put in my letterbox from the police with a crime number on it if I needed it for insurance purposes. That's how much they are interested in burglaries.
@@lauralishes1 I'm sure that was a very unpleasant experience for you, but if the all the Police Officers on duty in your area at that time were busy with something else (another person who'd been broken into and thought someone was still inside their house; doing a constant watch on someone in custody; sitting at hospital with a Rape victim; transporting a prisoner; interviewing someone; at hospital because they themselves have been hurt; waiting for the private ambulance to transport a person found hanging in a park to the coroner's office etc etc etc etc They are all daily occurrences, every shift, every day. The Police can't just magic up Officer's to respond to everything and to say that they aren't interested in Burglaries just is not true, they can only be in one place dealing with one incident at a time.
With regards to the police saying "I can smell weed" then im told the below info works quite well. 1) Get a dash cam that records audio and fit it to your car. 2) When the police pull you over stay in your car and lower the window, when they arive at your door to talk wait a couple of seconds and ask them "What is that funny smell"? 99% of the time they think you are making a bacon joke so they say haha there is no funny smell. 3) When they cannot find anything wrong and decide they want to search your car and they say they can smell weed then you remind them that they have already said there is no funny smell and its all on dash camera with audio :)
I would say that if the vehicle is parked on the drive of the person’s home the Constable would have reasonable grounds to suspect that the person does not live in the vehicle.
how do you define driving suspiciously? - is the car on tip toes or something - surely this is an easy out for the police to say that the car was "driving suspiciously" at any time they want to search a random vehicle?
My question is this Can the police legally do a stop and search on a vehicle which is a live in home (Driver has no other physical home)? is there a difference between say a van and what is essentially a moving home?
@@collincovid6950 I also asked about what applies to a boat (as i now live on the water) as it is my home. I still have loads of live in vehicles of all sizes and type so knowing this would be very helpful though I have managed to avoid any search (excluding customs) as we had kids and it was our home and I was always polite and not shitty about it.
@@collincovid6950 yes it is especially with the new laws coming in that in some cases will let them take away live in homes and crush them.... peoples homes.
Under Section 163 road traffic act you do need to provide your details That act just allows the police officer to stop the car it's section 164 and section 165 which you must produce your details and documents
9:30 an officer may develop a reasonable suspicion by smelling the odor of drugs. The problem is that this, along with many other "reasonable grounds", can so easily be abused by the Police. If they want to search a vehicle, for _whatever_ reason, they can just say "I smelled cannabis" and that's the reasonable grounds that goes on their paperwork. Whether they genuinely thought they could smell drugs or not can never be proven afterward, even if they never find any drugs in the vehicle. And then they've done their search and that's that.
If you are clean and its a 163....and they use the "can smell alcohol/drugs"...just say "well its must be one of you two, I want a senior officer here now and want you both tested". Ignore their protests and call the police...999.and say you have been stopped by police who are 'acting as if drunk or on drugs' and you fear for your life. That normally get them to **** off.
Brian J Hoskins Two points. 1. You can lose your sense of smell through brain damage, and we know many police have been involved in altercations where that may have happened but hasn't manifested itself in behavior that is different than normal for a plod although it can effect your sense of smell. You can lose your sense of smell if you have a brain tumor which you may yet not be aware of. A simple head cold can effect your sense of smell as can over indulgence of alcohol or illicit or even prescribed drugs as well as the demon, smoking tobacco. They can do simple tests to see if your olfactory nerve is working, and simply being a plod doesn't automatically mean you are fine. How do I know? I failed a smell test, I can't smell lemons. 2. I worked in a situation where testing for drugs wasn't left to the flawed nose of some hung over human. There is the technology which can detect the presence of most drugs in a confined place, yet they can't afford it because they are spending their money on gay bumble bee outfits and rainbow paint jobs for their cars. There again, why entrust expensive technology to people whose ideology is, if you can't eat it, drink it or fuck it, let's break it.
Simply having a tool kit in your vehicle either for maintenance or work purposes can result in arrest.Apparently Screwdrivers are potential offensive weapons; my very limited knowledge of the law concludes that it was down to the police to prove intent.
And every time they want to search your car they use the smell of weed even though you pass the test and don’t smoke the police are a joke but you are a top bloke thanks for all your information
I was randomly stopped in my van along with other vans in a coned off layby as part of a search for stolen tools. The officer implied that she didn't need a search warrant so I felt obliged to open the doors! Only a week later when I complained did the local police inspector send a completed 'stop search' form to make things right ! Stop and search was not mentioned at the time of the incident so was it an illegal search? Obviously I was gullible enough to open the doors
I have not been stopped for over a decade. I can recall seeing a police car flashing it's lights behind me, and I just assumed they wanted to overtake, so I slowed down, but they kept following me. I eventually cottoned on that my lights were not showing and they wanted me to stop. I was stopped once back in my scooter riding days, and dragooned into shepherding stray sheep that were wandering on the road as the copper needed some assistance. I wonder if that was reasonable grounds.
Police have always backed off searching my vehicle as I have a vicious, very vicious dog in the back, one that cannot be restrained. We have tried having it put down but the vet said he could not do anything, took it to the rifle range and bullets just bounced off. The animal is coming up to its 1200 birthday. If ever getting married check the berth certificate of the proposed mother-in-law as some, as I have found out, are beastly. She snarls at police officers from the back seat
If a police officer says he/she believes they can smell drugs in your vehicle, and proceeds to search it for drugs, but can’t find any, would that mean they had searched your vehicle under false pretences?
Great question... ...in sensible countries like the US that have a written constitution that clearly specifies such things - it could be deemed an illegal search, and the results of that search could be deemed inadmissible as evidence. In the U.K.... ...not so much 🤣
What happens if the car is stopped without good reason, a search is carried out without good reason but the officers find something incriminating? If it was highly incriminating like a body or an explosive device I can't imagine any lawyer getting the evidence thrown out of court, but maybe that would be the case for something of lesser significance?
Why is the music louder than your voice? I struggled to hear most of your introduction. Setting that aside, this was very interesting and helpful. How a, “suspect,” establishes that the police are acting in good faith seems to be an issue that will only be settled after the fact? Good luck getting justice if you were wrongfully searched and then let go anyway?
I'm thinking about the time I was pulled for being on the phone whilst driving, I told the officer I wasn't, I got out of my car and pulled my phone out of my pocket to show him, he wasn't satisfied, he thought I had a second phone, he said he's searching my car under the anti-terrorism act. I just let him carry on with it. 🙄
I would say you can't and shouldn't but then you can nail afterwards if they have crossed the line, whatever good it will do. But I will bow to Blackbelt Barristers superior knowledge.
You can ask them what their reasonable suspicion is. You could even say to them that you are helping them, as you will be complaining, so it will help them if they tell you what their reasonable suspicion is so that you are sure that they have one. If they can't articulate their reasonable suspicion, may be they don't have one, but it may also be that the reason for their suspicion should not be articulated to a potential perpetrator of the crime.
Some people might believe British police are not so well versed in 'Law' considering the numbers of police being sacked or even banged up for conducting criminal acts as reported almost on a weekly basis...
I got stopped in an Enterprise rented van once going to collect some materials for work just before the Scottish border. The van was brand new, and plastered with the Enterprise logo all over and totally empty at this stage. The officers had a camera man with them filming vehicles pulled at random and I was told that filming for television was a suitable reason to stop me. One officer said we are pulling people at random in the Hope of finding something to create footage…and do I mind? The other officer then asked “is this your vehicle” when it’s plastered with enterprise logos and rent from £49 per day stickers… he asked can he look in the back so he opened the side loading door and obv it was clean and empty… he then asked much to the dismay of the other officer and the cameraman can he look in the rear doors to see what’s there 😂 bearing in mind it was just a empty sprinter van… the camera man asked for permission should the bbc want to use the footage but couldn’t stop laughing at how daft the officer was
Section 163. The reason why " we are filming for TV and want footage" is an entirely legal and "suitable" stop because all stops are legal for any, or no reason at all. They could be playing car snooker and even if they literally admit that in court, there would be no legal reason why they couldn't. It would still be a legal stop. They could even say "just because the driver is black", and it would still be a legal stop
@@hannahalice1000 True Hannah, I used to work nights as a driver, and I got stopped or followed regularly, it was clear, that being an unsociable hour, the police were just bored. But they are amazed when you see through it, and get abrupt and testy at being held up.
Question: why, time and time again, does refusing to answer questions (*questions that one isn't lawfully abliged to answer*) constitue "antisocial behavior" thereby incurring a search? Maybe you've answered this question and can link to a specific video?
@@timboatfield Hey, Tim. That's an excellent suggestion. I have contemplated a number of ways to approach this right down to doing my own version of a legal, polite and respectful "audit" of sorts. - but I don't like that idea... yours, however, is a great way of remaining neutral and putting each side's points into the video and giving everyone a professional viewpoint on each. 👍
Indeed - I am thinking about a good way of doing this and I would prefer doing it with agreement and/or cooperation with any creator - but a great idea, I feel.
what if you are a food delivery driver and the house you are delivering food too has just had a drugs bust and then you pull up with food order? had nothing in car or on him except their food order with receipt. the car and he himself was searched. is that legal it is clear he was delivering had all receipts from previous orders that evening so they couldn't just say he a food delivery bag.
What about if the Officer says he smelt it, as an excuse to claim grounds for a search and nothing is found at the end of the search? Please From an Injured British War Veteran
Just checking why your ex profession relevant dude? This ain't America with it's hero worship of military lad If you got injured doing a job you volunteered for then that on you , it bad enough that you'll be taking disabled resources that real disabled people need.
You would be amazed by the smells and things you find in peoples cars, I'm not talking searching, I'm a mechanic/MOT tester we have to go threw your cars for locking wheel nut keys, service books, and seat mounting points. Dirty ash trays, used mask, tampons in the glove box, week old gym kits in the boot....Thanks
I was told by a police man in public before wittnesses. Before we where dis armed after Port Arthur that if he found me with a rifle threaded for a silencer. By the time it got to court it would have a silencer on it.
As in many videos, you read out the actual law regarding to the issue you're talking about. It often refers to 'him', rather than 'they'. Does a female have a defence that the law doesn't apply to her as it only refers to 'him'? (I think I know the answer but I'd love to know why 'him' is used and not 'him/her', or 'they'.)
I have a question I'm hoping you can help with. If the police do a search on a vehicle are they allowed to remove parts of the car while doing there search, for example trim parts or interior light etc. Hope you can help been trying to find the answer online and just can't find anything, not asking because I want to get up to no good it was just a question that came up in the pub with the lads and none of us could figure out what the answer is many thanks.
For clarity and avoidance of doubt, does a search of the vehicle include a search of the person and belongings of passengers or does that fall under the laws on searching individuals? The specific situation I’m thinking of is something that happened to me about 25 years ago. I had called a mini cab to get home from a work event at around midnight. The mini cab was stopped by the police on a dual carriage way and the driver was instructed to pull into a petrol station just ahead. The police instructed both me and the driver to get out of the vehicle whilst it was searched. They found nothing so insisted on searching both the driver and me. From what I was able to gather, from what the police said and the conversation the driver had with his dispatcher as he drove me home, they had a report that a driver with that company who drove a car of the same colour, make and model was suspected of distributing drugs for a gang (I think they picked up packets from the bulk distributed then delivered them to the street dealers, same as how some companies use mini abs to deliver packages like mobile phones) so all drivers with that make, model and colour of car had been stopped. The driver was very apologetic, the police not at all and were actually quite hostile.
Must the police state what they expects to find? Say drugs or stolen goods or can a search be open ended once any reasonable reason has been satisfied? And they can act upon anything they find.
As MOST Stop & Searches lead to no further police action, this must greatly undermine the vast majority of policemen's suspicion decisions. Brings into question either their competence on being suspicious OR their underlying attitude to adhering to fair search requirements and subsequent complaints against them.
@Ubiquitous Ubiquitous police reports confirm it is true, although I agree it will be a deterrent, but how good is impossible to say, and society will need to decide if what may be random frisks are acceptable.
Another very interesting video Daniel. Daniel. Thanks for the clarification. Had to chuckle when you said most of us (your viewers) will know this as 'going equipped ' What are you trying to say about your audience 😉😆😆😆😆
If the doors are locked can they search the vehicle? If I get out of the vehicle lock it and stand by the side of the road can they still search it with out a warrant.
I am curious about the law surrounding vehicle dashcams. Can the police size or demand you hand over footage from your dashcam. Can you be prosecuted for deleting footage prior to the police arrival or for refusing to hand it over?
The case is R v Howell 1981. This is the court preferred definition put out by CJ Tasker Watkins. It's a very basic definition that very rarely fits the circumstances of any arrest I've witnessed or read about. It's a complaint not a crime and is therefore non recordable. You don't have to give your details or be fingerprinted, photographed or DNA taken.
@@cypeman8037 I heard the guy on channel ,news now Scotland,asking 2 cid in Aberdeen ,if they have ever heard of r versus Howell ,,when they were asking him questions
Because the police are not required to articulate their reasonable grounds on scene, its simply fucking amazing how may times those "reasonable grounds" are only given when a formal complaint s made days or weeks later,
If they were leaving the scene of an offence, surely a red estate car (which is a pretty broad group) at or near the scene, couldn't be the one... And just a description of a "car" can't be used...FFS Plus, driving suspiciously? Really? It's this moment Han Solo told Chewey to "fly casual" Various substances that the Police will be familiar with -I wonder how they would get familiar with those substances...
A crow or pry bar is illegal in a car? What? I carry loads of spare tools in my car boot…pretty sure I spotted a long forgotten crow bar tucked in there. I would have no “specific” use excuse for it despite me not ever have been a burglar 😳. Sorry BBB, but some of our laws are just ridiculous and need a revision. For example, I also have a locking pen knife that I dare not keep in the car anymore…despite the fact that the locking action is not used for stabbing people, but rather stopping the blade closing upon one’s fingers during normal use…however I doubt plod would see it that way. Thankfully I believe anecdotally that most judges are pragmatic, but then again…Law is law right!
Can declining to answer questions you are not obliged, by law, to be grounds for suspicion? Also I have seen some examples from the USA where there are immigration or DUI checkpoints and the driver has supplied all required documents via a bag hung out the window. This keeping the windows rolled up and avoiding the "I smell cannabis" line. Lastly if there were no reasonable grounds and an illegal search performed would any evidence this obtained be inadmissible and what remedy would you be entitled to?
Thanks for the info, however, if a copper wants to search a vehicle they have stopped under 163 they will have no problem abusing their power to do so, this will include breaking their own laws & lying.
What are your rights, regarding your own questioning of the police? I.e. “Why did you stop me?” Or, “Why do you want to search me?/My car?” Given there are no exigent circumstances, is the driver allowed to establish their sufficient grounds before allowing any search? Do the police have the right to disregard your questioning? Or must they answer and establish their grounds? My encounters with police usually lead to the officer/s in question refusing to answer any reasonable query. Indeed, even when I’ve been helpful (which is all the time) they seem either not to know, or just not willing to answer. As a teen I was asked who I was and where I was going, by a random (to me at any rate) police officer, to whom I responded, “Do I have to tell you that?” I just got the same question back, but with more, “attitude.” I literally stood my ground and asked, “What are my rights, right now? Am I legally compelled to tell you, a complete stranger, my personal details?” After being ignored a third time, and another officer creeping up behind me, I’m ashamed to say, I caved in and gave them everything. At the end of the encounter, once they were being less intimidating, I tried one last time. “Did I have to tell you my details, by law? What would have happened, if I’d refused?” The answer I got sounded more like a threat than a response to anything I’d asked. I was left feeling like the police don’t want to be trusted or respected, and actively discourage it. This was many years ago now, and I hope things are better? But, sheesh! 🤦♂️ I still don’t really know what my rights are these days? . . . 🤷♂️🙄
I wa stopped on my way from work after midnight in my midlife crisis car. I lowered the window and asked what the issue was. " O you can drive on sir, you are not what we are looking for". It took every ounce of restraint not to say " You mean i am a white middle aged man rather than a young black guy". I think the police should need probable cause to pull over any car.
Dakrayus Make a complaint and see it the IOPC find the intelligence they were using to justify their reasonable grounds. For a long time the IOPC were seen as a poodle of the police but they seem to be upping their game after a lot of adverse publicity about their lack of action against obvious bad uns.
I would have thought you could generate a SAR (Subject Access Request) for the information that led to the "intelligence." Sure BBB could clarify this.
hi can you explain the right a single woman has the right to not get into a male officer's vehicle (I heard that there is a right to request a woman officer)????
What if the person was on the way to the airport for a fortnights holiday, or longer and didn't have any documents on them when pulled over and asked to produce them?
Its all bollocks! They do what they like and stop whoever they like, they worry about justifying it after the event, for example I was stopped because one of my passengers looked back as the police car was following me, upon stopping me they claimed they could smell cannabis and proceeded to search the car, after which they searched each of us individually even going to the length of calling a police woman in, to search a female passenger. We were completely innocent of any crime, but since when has that stopped them. I'm sorry, but the Law is worded in such a way that its able to be twisted to suit the police, and there is nothing you can do about it except grin and bear it, its a farce!
Hello. If the police want to search my vehicle with a dog, I am allergic to dogs, and the pc goes ahead, after informing the pc of my condition, meaning I could not drive my car, this has not happened to me but just in case, what is your opinion on this.
The problem is the damage is done even if the search was unlawful because the police will just say the have reasonable suspicion because the reasonable suspicion text is subjective and many police abuse that subjective nature. But you can always claim it was unlawful after they don't find anything and claim against them. Often these claims are settled after a year without going to court
All very well and informative telling us all these acts and subsections, but how are we, the general public, meant to remember all that if stopped by the police?
You educate yourself.... exactly as you would in any walk of life. Knowledge is power as they say. Preparation is key...prep for the future like any reasonable person would You see a risk, you know you need to know some of this stuff...you learn it in advance so your armed with something. Just because it's complicated doesn't mean it's hard to grasp the basics...have you even tried writing up an overview of the law... start with differences between INTERNATIONAL LAW Vs DOMESTIC LAW. Then Breakdown Domestic into PUBLIC VS PRIVATE LAW.... Then breakdown into types of law...& System of courts & their jurisdictions. Then look deeper into one or more eg PUBLIC LAW >CRIMINAL LAW >ROAD TRAFFIC LAW >OFFENCES VS PENALTIES >PRIMARY LEGISLATION>SECONDARY LEGISLATION >REGULATIONS >LOCAL LAWS See that's a working overview just for you. Now You choose...are you going to be the pigeon or the statue in a legal situation.
Love your channel. Serious question. If my car is stopped because a Blue Mondeo was seen at a burglary with a crow bar. Can the police go fishing once they establish I am not and the car is not in question? For example wrong plates and I don't match the suspect. If they did find something say a prohibited substance at the back of the glove box. Can you question on what grounds they have?
Stopped a vehicle at random and then the constable *thinks* they smelled drugs. I'm glad there's no way *that* could be abused...
Your after-shave is guilty
That's why you don't open your windows in order to communicate.
@Kris Nicholson sue them? How do you prove there is no smell of cannabis?
@Kris Nicholson still doesn’t mean they didn’t have reasonable grounds. The smell of cannabis can remain for some time. Even if there is no cannabis, they can be justified in searching a vehicle if there is a smell. The majority of police searches find nothing but they are still justified! So how do you prove there was no smell of cannabis?
@Kris Nicholson but if there is a smell then it is reasonable grounds. Even just a waft. Again, how do prove there wasn’t a smell?
Lets take this even one more step further... If a police officer wants to search your vehicle then a police officer will always find "reasonable" grounds by abusing said legislation's by stating that they can smell Cannabis when they don't, or suspect that you are carrying something etc hoping that you don't have a clue about the legislation they are trying to abuse !
A normal person can smell a cannabis smoker from 50 feet away. While a cannabis smoker believes that he smells just like everybody else. So yes they can smell it on you and you both know you are in possession and a search will prove the fact, thus your paranoid interpretation of their normal behavior.
@@thewizzard3150 I think you've missed my point.
@@PINACI no. I got your point, but are you avoiding mine?
@@thewizzard3150 your point doesn't stand when I don't smoke cannabis. I just live in an area where a lot of young lads do smoke.
I'm 29 but could pass for early 20's and being stopped and searched is pretty much a monthly thing when I'm in my area.
whether it be they can smell cannabis or a vehicle matching my description has been involved in local robberies. yet they have never found anything.
it's happened so often I've found it a lot quicker to just let them search than to argue.
@@wagglycloth4547my view stands better and clearer than you after you have had a few and your mentality can pass for early teens. My regards to your local policing.
I was waiting for a lift by the side of the road and a car was pulled by the police right in front of where I was stood waiting. I could hear everything clearly and the officer, while not exactly rude to the driver, came across decidedly haughty. Mainly as the driver was, to the officer's disdain, filming the stop on his phone. After a couple of minutes of terse words between the two the officer then said out of the blue "I can smell cannabis Sir" to which the driver just laughed and pointed at something on his passenger seat which I couldn't see as hidden by the car door. The driver suddenly lowered his passenger window and urged me over with a "hey mate, stick your head in here and tell me what you smell". I admit I was curious so inhaled as I edged nearer only to be met with the unmistakable aroma of fish and chips. There was a small white paper wrapped package (obviously containing the driver's lunch fresh from the chippy) sat on his car seat. With his phone filming I instantly blurted out "Smells like fish and chips to me". You know in cartoons where a character gets mad and their face goes beetroot red and steam comes out of their ears? That's the best way I can describe the police officer's reaction. Before he stormed off back into his patrol car giving me one last angry glare as he angrily pulled his seatbelt on.
That is fantastic! Thanks for sharing 🤣
So the constable was correct then, something was fishy, top work from him. 🤗
The moral of that story is always buy your drugs from the chippy
I was fully believing this delightful story right up to the end when the cop pulled his seatbelt on - never happens ever LOL
In my youth in 1980, remember a cop attending the college I was at to give a group meeting/lecture, he described how he conducted searches. One of my mates asked “what happens if they refuse you to allow the search?”
The cop calmly replied, “well in that case all I need to do is say that I can smell drugs, and I can search them without their permission ”
This was out if the horses mouth during a meet the public event. 🙄
That's when you should have given him some community justice and bashed the shit out of him. Cops act as they do because they believe they are immune to recourse. They're not armed in Britain and their back up is minutes away.
@@TheDrouyn
Exactly, he should be left unconscious some night with a note pinned to his shirt, "I told them I smelled drugs, I lied."
Actually in 1980 the police wouldn’t have even needed that. Under the sus laws all that’s as needed for search or arrest was suspicion you had done something as the Sus laws were very vague.
During a talk at school from a local Bobby on drugs he claimed that he could do a full strip search on one of the lads in my class. I told him that he couldn't, that he would be at risk of being charged with assault.
The copper did not like that, he said he could do so if he wanted to.
I pointed out that the lad was 15 and, therefore, legally unable to consent to such a search. Which made it an act of abuse.
Ah, the good old days...
43 years ago.
Wouldn't fly now and hasn't for decades.
As a person who is self employed and a Van driver, the police in the past “twice” have made an excuse that, there have been a lot of vans stolen lately 🙄
My van has only ever been searched once, but because it's grease n dirt covered items, they only lean inside and look around 😂
@@paulmitchell5375 So cover ‘your’ stolen items, with grease and mud?
I have had the one “you fit the description” haha
@@Jack-fs2im Just remember that Brazilian electrician Jean Charles De Menezes "Fit the description" of Ethiopian terror suspect Hussein Osman.
@@Ohm_mega But the police mislaid identity info of De Menezes and there is no resemblance to Osman.
So back in the late 90s, I was in a car that was stopped for a spot check. They spoke to the driver, and searched the car for "anything that shouldn't be in there". My understanding from this video, is that, that search was illegal. As far as I know, it was a random vehicle and not one matching any kind of description.
Despite what you may have heard or seen on TH-cam channels like this there is no such thing as an illegal search of a vehicle, the filth will simply say they had "reasonable suspicion" which trumps any card you or a solicitor can play.
A couple of years ago I was in a car and we were stopped and the police said the driver was wanted because he had made comments that are not approved by the state. He was arrested, beaten and later thrown out of a helicopter with a bag over his head into the North Sea..... Just a lovely glimpse of what the future may hold if the UK keeps heading down the path to tyranny.
@@sambrooks7862 Yes! Catch 22. The Police are allowed to lie.
@@sambrooks7862 "no such thing as an illegal search of a vehicle,"
Yes there is. They need to PROVE they suspected something.
I've never carried my insurance documents in a car, and have never known anyone who has.
Would they really ask if you had them with you? Never in my experience.
I was breathalysed at 1am as the officer "smelt alcohol" - reading was ZERO - does the officer need a medical, or retraining ? Or do I complain that he is reprimanded for wasting everybody's time and police resources ?
Nothing would come of it - just lies and excuses for a fishing exercise.
The problem is the police don't know what reasonable means
I am fairly sure they do
@@LRDefender80 Too many police officers don’t
@@brodem5597 how many?
@@LRDefender80 One police officer violating your rights is one too many.
Very informative, curious to know how the reasonable grounds rules play out though when they search a vehicle because of a nonexistent 'strong smell of cannabis'. Even if they find nothing you cannot prove they made it up even though everyone knows they do and they'll just deny it anyway.
This is an interesting one. My immediate thought was that it's simply your word against theirs, but the fact there will be no cannabis found should presumably add more weight to your account.
Has anyone gave any credence that it may be the police officer or a police officer who smells of cannabis. In July last year SkyNews sent freedom of information requests to police forces across the whole country and it turned out that forces across the country employ at least 211 police officers and PCSOs who were guilty of crimes, according to data released under the Freedom of Information Act. For example North Wales Police said 20 police officers and five PCSOs have criminal convictions, including a sergeant convicted of assault, two officers guilty of drug possession and two officers convicted of cruelty to animals. So we can very safely assume the possibility that at least one police officer who is at a scene involving a vehicle search could actually be really smelling cannabis, but that smell could be emanating from a colleague.
@@woody41165 another interesting statistic - of all the items that ‘go missing’ from Police evidence lockers, 40% is drugs. I think you’re bang on with your point!
@@thewholeroll
Don't fight it because if you do all that will happen is they will make sure they find something.
@@woody41165 they should of asked the number of those convicted of summary offences and those convicted of indictable offences for a better picture
Just found your channel, thank you for all you do. Too many armchair lawyers around. Great to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about.
Thanks, Mark. 🙏
So many armchair lawyers FOR REASON they can't get minimum advice free.
Mark stevens
I haven't yet read any posts here contradicting BlackBeltBarrister's information, which would make them armchair lawyers. All I see people dissing the police, a large minority whom in all honesty, deserve being disrespected for their abuses against anyone who doesn't lick their boots.
William Ferguson you miss understand, I refer to people I know and I think most people would know at least one person who have watched enough tv to assume they are now a qualified Barrister.
BornToDoIt would you expect a tradesman to come and do minimum work for free?
As we all know plod will simply abuse their 'discretion' to do what ever they want...and they wonder why they are hated...!!
Earlier this year the IPCC upheld a complaint (rare). they stated that an officer smelling drugs is not sufficient grounds for a search. Apparently this message has been sent out to all forces where I'm sure it's been universally ignored. Let's be honest how many times has an officer used the I can smell drugs excuse to search a person or vehicle when it suites them. Been searched twice with that one and never used drugs in my life, certainly never smoked cannabis and never smoked a cigarette in my life. Same happens with breath tests they can always smell alcohol even managed to smell it on me over three years after my last drink. Of course they will breath test you for driving erratically, apparently going around a puddle to avoid soaking pedestrians is erratic driving. They'll find any bullshit excuse that they think you'll be daft enough to put up with.
I've been stopped for crossing the centre lane marker, in a one way street, and erratic steering round a roundabout, bless em, they get so hurt, when you laugh at them for the absurd reasons for the stop.
I'm a TPCSO and recently we saw a man stop on a Zebra Crossing and drop his child off outside a school. He drove off and we followed him and were able to stop next to him and asked him to pull over in order to advise him re the crossing. As soon as he wound the window down there was a really strong smell of cannabis. A Traffic patrol was requested and we asked him to wait. Which he did. A patrol arrived, searched the car but found nothing. However, a drug wipe was carried out which proved positive and he was arrested. He wasn't issued a TOR for the crossing offence as we felt he had enough problems already.
So what punishment can the police face for wasting your time if they keep you there and you miss an appointment say for a doctor and they find nothing keeping you there for an hour?
They would be charged with wasting police time. An hour? Really?
@@thewizzard3150 It's not only happened to me, I've seen it happen to others, see them pulling someone over, I've been shopping came past again and they just letting guy on his way. Seriously police can and will find things to do to waste time and police will not charge themselves!
Yep, the worst thing you can do is tell them that you're in a hurry, they'll just smirk and keep you there for as long as they want, they're not in a hurry and have nowhere else to be until their shift ends.
@@dannyd2648 you people really don't get the whole attitude thing! Be nice and complimentry they won't keep you a minute. Growl and claim superiority, they will keep you all day and find something wrong.
@@thewizzard3150 So your saying just be a pleb? youtuber buzztex audit has just proven my point in latest vid @1hr 20mins harassing him with non-legal document at his house.
Love it ! I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY FOR ANY ADVICE GIVEN. spoken like a true professional . :) :) :) Read disclaimer after leaving first comment.
The old chestnut "sniff sniff, I think I smell cannabis coming from your car" instant MODA.
@@BillsAllotmentDiary they will ignore arrest you are you for control substance then take you down the police station and do a anal search there a vid on crime bodge
Them them, that's funny because I can smell pig 🐖 bullshit...
Hi BlackBeltBarrister, Fabtastic instructional and informative video - Have watched various online videos wherein a person driving a vehicle had been stopped under Section 163 and the police officer has stated that have smelled cannabis where none existed and then conducted a search of the vehicle - What defence does a person have against the police abusing their station under this basis?
Added to the list!
@@BlackBeltBarrister Thank you
@@BlackBeltBarrister wasnt there a case law stated that the smell alone of cannabis's was not grounds for search ??
Some Magic Trees smell bloody weird...
I have a friend with a more than questionable criminal past. The police used the fact that they could see his work tools, considering his past in burglary as an excuse to search his vehicle. That was a fun one for him to explain to his boss.
"There's been a lot of burglaries in the area" is the usual BS.
Yeah they care that much about burglaries it takes them 3 weeks to respond ot sometimes not at all. I came home to my front door smashed and thought someone was still in there. I phoned 999 and no one came. I called them back 3 times. Eventually I had to walk to my neighbours and sat there until 6am, no one ever turned up. A week later I got a card put in my letterbox from the police with a crime number on it if I needed it for insurance purposes. That's how much they are interested in burglaries.
There's 30 millions cars in the UK, trying to catch criminals by searching them at random is like spending police budget to buy lottery tickets.
@@lauralishes1 I'm sure that was a very unpleasant experience for you, but if the all the Police Officers on duty in your area at that time were busy with something else (another person who'd been broken into and thought someone was still inside their house; doing a constant watch on someone in custody; sitting at hospital with a Rape victim; transporting a prisoner; interviewing someone; at hospital because they themselves have been hurt; waiting for the private ambulance to transport a person found hanging in a park to the coroner's office etc etc etc etc
They are all daily occurrences, every shift, every day.
The Police can't just magic up Officer's to respond to everything and to say that they aren't interested in Burglaries just is not true, they can only be in one place dealing with one incident at a time.
With regards to the police saying "I can smell weed" then im told the below info works quite well.
1) Get a dash cam that records audio and fit it to your car.
2) When the police pull you over stay in your car and lower the window, when they arive at your door to talk wait a couple of seconds and ask them "What is that funny smell"? 99% of the time they think you are making a bacon joke so they say haha there is no funny smell.
3) When they cannot find anything wrong and decide they want to search your car and they say they can smell weed then you remind them that they have already said there is no funny smell and its all on dash camera with audio :)
I would say that if the vehicle is parked on the drive of the person’s home the Constable would have reasonable grounds to suspect that the person does not live in the vehicle.
An excellent video , explaining what a search of your Vehicle is about , Be Well my Friend , keep up the great content , have a great weekend .
Many thanks, you too!
They can just say we can smell the good stuff & then you wont have a bag of green to stand on..
how do you define driving suspiciously? - is the car on tip toes or something - surely this is an easy out for the police to say that the car was "driving suspiciously" at any time they want to search a random vehicle?
My question is this
Can the police legally do a stop and search on a vehicle which is a live in home (Driver has no other physical home)? is there a difference between say a van and what is essentially a moving home?
Good question, and hope it is answered. A mobile home is an interesting one.
@@collincovid6950 I asked in live chat and he is going to find out and let us know
@@KarrierBag Good. It is an obscure one
@@collincovid6950 I also asked about what applies to a boat (as i now live on the water) as it is my home.
I still have loads of live in vehicles of all sizes and type so knowing this would be very helpful though I have managed to avoid any search (excluding customs) as we had kids and it was our home and I was always polite and not shitty about it.
@@collincovid6950 yes it is especially with the new laws coming in that in some cases will let them take away live in homes and crush them.... peoples homes.
All the best getaway drivers know never to draw attention to their vehicle by speeding away from the scene of the crime, day or night.
Under Section 163 road traffic act you do need to provide your details
That act just allows the police officer to stop the car
it's section 164 and section 165 which you must produce your details and documents
Covered here
th-cam.com/video/EeBcLYhcU00/w-d-xo.html
@@BlackBeltBarrister I'm just stating that because you said under section 163 road traffic act a officer will require you details which isn't the case
9:30 an officer may develop a reasonable suspicion by smelling the odor of drugs. The problem is that this, along with many other "reasonable grounds", can so easily be abused by the Police. If they want to search a vehicle, for _whatever_ reason, they can just say "I smelled cannabis" and that's the reasonable grounds that goes on their paperwork. Whether they genuinely thought they could smell drugs or not can never be proven afterward, even if they never find any drugs in the vehicle. And then they've done their search and that's that.
If you are clean and its a 163....and they use the "can smell alcohol/drugs"...just say "well its must be one of you two, I want a senior officer here now and want you both tested". Ignore their protests and call the police...999.and say you have been stopped by police who are 'acting as if drunk or on drugs' and you fear for your life.
That normally get them to **** off.
Brian J Hoskins
Two points.
1. You can lose your sense of smell through brain damage, and we know many police have been involved in altercations where that may have happened but hasn't manifested itself in behavior that is different than normal for a plod although it can effect your sense of smell. You can lose your sense of smell if you have a brain tumor which you may yet not be aware of. A simple head cold can effect your sense of smell as can over indulgence of alcohol or illicit or even prescribed drugs as well as the demon, smoking tobacco.
They can do simple tests to see if your olfactory nerve is working, and simply being a plod doesn't automatically mean you are fine. How do I know? I failed a smell test, I can't smell lemons.
2. I worked in a situation where testing for drugs wasn't left to the flawed nose of some hung over human. There is the technology which can detect the presence of most drugs in a confined place, yet they can't afford it because they are spending their money on gay bumble bee outfits and rainbow paint jobs for their cars. There again, why entrust expensive technology to people whose ideology is, if you can't eat it, drink it or fuck it, let's break it.
@@wjf0ne other views exist
If you were a fair, decent and honest person you wouldn't be a cop in the first place.
Open ended arguments for the police making it almost impossible not to be suspicious
Simply having a tool kit in your vehicle either for maintenance or work purposes can result in arrest.Apparently Screwdrivers are potential offensive weapons; my very limited knowledge of the law concludes that it was down to the police to prove intent.
And every time they want to search your car they use the smell of weed even though you pass the test and don’t smoke the police are a joke but you are a top bloke thanks for all your information
I was randomly stopped in my van along with other vans in a coned off layby as part of a search for stolen tools. The officer implied that she didn't need a search warrant so I felt obliged to open the doors! Only a week later when I complained did the local police inspector send a completed 'stop search' form to make things right ! Stop and search was not mentioned at the time of the incident so was it an illegal search? Obviously I was gullible enough to open the doors
I have not been stopped for over a decade. I can recall seeing a police car flashing it's lights behind me, and I just assumed they wanted to overtake, so I slowed down, but they kept following me. I eventually cottoned on that my lights were not showing and they wanted me to stop. I was stopped once back in my scooter riding days, and dragooned into shepherding stray sheep that were wandering on the road as the copper needed some assistance. I wonder if that was reasonable grounds.
Police have always backed off searching my vehicle as I have a vicious, very vicious dog in the back, one that cannot be restrained. We have tried having it put down but the vet said he could not do anything, took it to the rifle range and bullets just bounced off. The animal is coming up to its 1200 birthday. If ever getting married check the berth certificate of the proposed mother-in-law as some, as I have found out, are beastly. She snarls at police officers from the back seat
I thought it was because it smelled so bad.
@@thewizzard3150 She does at that
If a police officer says he/she believes they can smell drugs in your vehicle, and proceeds to search it for drugs, but can’t find any, would that mean they had searched your vehicle under false pretences?
What would happen if the police carry out a search without reasonable grounds but find something suspicious? Could that still be used as evidence?
Great question...
...in sensible countries like the US that have a written constitution that clearly specifies such things - it could be deemed an illegal search, and the results of that search could be deemed inadmissible as evidence.
In the U.K.... ...not so much 🤣
Added to the video list!
Thanks BlackBeltBarrister
If they didn’t have "reasonable grounds" they wouldn't be carrying out the search.
@@sambrooks7862 lol
What happens if the car is stopped without good reason, a search is carried out without good reason but the officers find something incriminating? If it was highly incriminating like a body or an explosive device I can't imagine any lawyer getting the evidence thrown out of court, but maybe that would be the case for something of lesser significance?
So basically, yes. They can just make anything up, as reasonable grounds
Ah! The old: is that marijuana I can smell sir?
Yeah Sounds like it to me mate 👍
Why is the music louder than your voice? I struggled to hear most of your introduction. Setting that aside, this was very interesting and helpful. How a, “suspect,” establishes that the police are acting in good faith seems to be an issue that will only be settled after the fact? Good luck getting justice if you were wrongfully searched and then let go anyway?
I'm thinking about the time I was pulled for being on the phone whilst driving, I told the officer I wasn't, I got out of my car and pulled my phone out of my pocket to show him, he wasn't satisfied, he thought I had a second phone, he said he's searching my car under the anti-terrorism act. I just let him carry on with it. 🙄
Searching for a second phone using Section 43? Yeah, that's really justified. :/
So if no possible grounds exist for "reasonable suspicion" but they search anyway is this illegal?
Up to.you to make an issue of it ...
Raise a complaint, follow it thru first with the force in question then the IPC
But if the Police say I have reasonable suspicion how can you stop them .
I would say you can't and shouldn't but then you can nail afterwards if they have crossed the line, whatever good it will do. But I will bow to Blackbelt Barristers superior knowledge.
You can ask them what their reasonable suspicion is. You could even say to them that you are helping them, as you will be complaining, so it will help them if they tell you what their reasonable suspicion is so that you are sure that they have one. If they can't articulate their reasonable suspicion, may be they don't have one, but it may also be that the reason for their suspicion should not be articulated to a potential perpetrator of the crime.
Some people might believe British police are not so well versed in 'Law' considering the numbers of police being sacked or even banged up for conducting criminal acts as reported almost on a weekly basis...
I got stopped in an Enterprise rented van once going to collect some materials for work just before the Scottish border. The van was brand new, and plastered with the Enterprise logo all over and totally empty at this stage.
The officers had a camera man with them filming vehicles pulled at random and I was told that filming for television was a suitable reason to stop me. One officer said we are pulling people at random in the Hope of finding something to create footage…and do I mind? The other officer then asked “is this your vehicle” when it’s plastered with enterprise logos and rent from £49 per day stickers… he asked can he look in the back so he opened the side loading door and obv it was clean and empty… he then asked much to the dismay of the other officer and the cameraman can he look in the rear doors to see what’s there 😂 bearing in mind it was just a empty sprinter van… the camera man asked for permission should the bbc want to use the footage but couldn’t stop laughing at how daft the officer was
Section 163. The reason why " we are filming for TV and want footage" is an entirely legal and "suitable" stop because all stops are legal for any, or no reason at all.
They could be playing car snooker and even if they literally admit that in court, there would be no legal reason why they couldn't. It would still be a legal stop. They could even say "just because the driver is black", and it would still be a legal stop
@@hannahalice1000 True Hannah, I used to work nights as a driver, and I got stopped or followed regularly, it was clear, that being an unsociable hour, the police were just bored. But they are amazed when you see through it, and get abrupt and testy at being held up.
Considering how stupid that would have made the office look, in that situation I would have not only agreed but insisted the BBC use the footage
Hello Black belt,please explain the power of Northampton bulk center,are there warrants worth the paper they are written on,Thank you eddy
The reality is that police can do anything you let them do.
Question: why, time and time again, does refusing to answer questions (*questions that one isn't lawfully abliged to answer*) constitue "antisocial behavior" thereby incurring a search? Maybe you've answered this question and can link to a specific video?
Looking forward to this one.
👍
@@BlackBeltBarrister Ditto
@@timboatfield Hey, Tim. That's an excellent suggestion. I have contemplated a number of ways to approach this right down to doing my own version of a legal, polite and respectful "audit" of sorts. - but I don't like that idea... yours, however, is a great way of remaining neutral and putting each side's points into the video and giving everyone a professional viewpoint on each. 👍
@@timboatfield I quite agree - and I must uphold the integrity of the Bar in the process.
Indeed - I am thinking about a good way of doing this and I would prefer doing it with agreement and/or cooperation with any creator - but a great idea, I feel.
Under what circumstances can the police seize a vehicle and have it towed away without the owner’s consent?
Added to the list!
what if you are a food delivery driver and the house you are delivering food too has just had a drugs bust and then you pull up with food order? had nothing in car or on him except their food order with receipt. the car and he himself was searched. is that legal it is clear he was delivering had all receipts from previous orders that evening so they couldn't just say he a food delivery bag.
Hot BlackBeltBarrister helping us with the Popo again!
What about if the Officer says he smelt it, as an excuse to claim grounds for a search and nothing is found at the end of the search? Please
From an Injured British War Veteran
Just checking why your ex profession relevant dude?
This ain't America with it's hero worship of military lad
If you got injured doing a job you volunteered for then that on you , it bad enough that you'll be taking disabled resources that real disabled people need.
I thought that Insurance and MOT documentation was now done online?
You would be amazed by the smells and things you find in peoples cars, I'm not talking searching, I'm a mechanic/MOT tester we have to go threw your cars for locking wheel nut keys, service books, and seat mounting points. Dirty ash trays, used mask, tampons in the glove box, week old gym kits in the boot....Thanks
And thats only my car LOL, but to be fair most cars are rank when you look through them
I was told by a police man in public before wittnesses. Before we where dis armed after Port Arthur that if he found me with a rifle threaded for a silencer. By the time it got to court it would have a silencer on it.
What about a conflict of interest and you notice your getting stopped regular
As in many videos, you read out the actual law regarding to the issue you're talking about. It often refers to 'him', rather than 'they'. Does a female have a defence that the law doesn't apply to her as it only refers to 'him'? (I think I know the answer but I'd love to know why 'him' is used and not 'him/her', or 'they'.)
Great video. Head is spinning. Multiple re watches scheduled.
Absolutely essential. Multiple views are well advised for me.
Great video. What a vast amount of information.
Hi great video as always. One question do you have to open the door or window.
@blackbeltbarrister does all this apply in Scotland?
I have a question I'm hoping you can help with. If the police do a search on a vehicle are they allowed to remove parts of the car while doing there search, for example trim parts or interior light etc. Hope you can help been trying to find the answer online and just can't find anything, not asking because I want to get up to no good it was just a question that came up in the pub with the lads and none of us could figure out what the answer is many thanks.
Very clear thank you.
@blackbeltbarrister Is "acting shifty" reasonable grounds to suspect ?
I always carry a crowbar , I am a surveyor , I presume this is ok. I never take it out of the car even when not working .
Same here, crowbar and a big screwdriver for lifting drain covers.
Your vehicle is classed as property. To search your house/property , a warrant is required ?. So does a vehicle search not require your consent?
For clarity and avoidance of doubt, does a search of the vehicle include a search of the person and belongings of passengers or does that fall under the laws on searching individuals?
The specific situation I’m thinking of is something that happened to me about 25 years ago. I had called a mini cab to get home from a work event at around midnight. The mini cab was stopped by the police on a dual carriage way and the driver was instructed to pull into a petrol station just ahead. The police instructed both me and the driver to get out of the vehicle whilst it was searched. They found nothing so insisted on searching both the driver and me. From what I was able to gather, from what the police said and the conversation the driver had with his dispatcher as he drove me home, they had a report that a driver with that company who drove a car of the same colour, make and model was suspected of distributing drugs for a gang (I think they picked up packets from the bulk distributed then delivered them to the street dealers, same as how some companies use mini abs to deliver packages like mobile phones) so all drivers with that make, model and colour of car had been stopped.
The driver was very apologetic, the police not at all and were actually quite hostile.
Must the police state what they expects to find? Say drugs or stolen goods or can a search be open ended once any reasonable reason has been satisfied? And they can act upon anything they find.
As MOST Stop & Searches lead to no further police action, this must greatly undermine the vast majority of policemen's suspicion decisions.
Brings into question either their competence on being suspicious OR their underlying attitude to adhering to fair search requirements and subsequent complaints against them.
@Ubiquitous Ubiquitous police reports confirm it is true, although I agree it will be a deterrent, but how good is impossible to say, and society will need to decide if what may be random frisks are acceptable.
@Ubiquitous Ubiquitousillogical point
Another very interesting video Daniel. Daniel. Thanks for the clarification. Had to chuckle when you said most of us (your viewers) will know this as 'going equipped ' What are you trying to say about your audience 😉😆😆😆😆
I thought everyone knew 🤣😂
They don't Unless the stop is done by a non traffic ask to produce within 7 days now as they have all the info(or should have ) digitally provided
If the doors are locked can they search the vehicle?
If I get out of the vehicle lock it and stand by the side of the road can they still search it with out a warrant.
So if randomly stopped and the officer wants to search your vehicle, if asked, does the officer have to give the reason?
I am curious about the law surrounding vehicle dashcams. Can the police size or demand you hand over footage from your dashcam. Can you be prosecuted for deleting footage prior to the police arrival or for refusing to hand it over?
#Question: Can you give us an explanation of "Breach of the peace" law. Are there any cases that I can read about regarding this?
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The case is R v Howell 1981.
This is the court preferred definition put out by CJ Tasker Watkins.
It's a very basic definition that very rarely fits the circumstances of any arrest I've witnessed or read about.
It's a complaint not a crime and is therefore non recordable. You don't have to give your details or be fingerprinted, photographed or DNA taken.
@@cypeman8037 I heard the guy on channel ,news now Scotland,asking 2 cid in Aberdeen ,if they have ever heard of r versus Howell ,,when they were asking him questions
@@johnmcdonald9295 And their reply?
@@cypeman8037 they didn’t know what he was talking about
Because the police are not required to articulate their reasonable grounds on scene, its simply fucking amazing how may times those "reasonable grounds" are only given when a formal complaint s made days or weeks later,
If they were leaving the scene of an offence, surely a red estate car (which is a pretty broad group) at or near the scene, couldn't be the one...
And just a description of a "car" can't be used...FFS
Plus, driving suspiciously? Really? It's this moment Han Solo told Chewey to "fly casual"
Various substances that the Police will be familiar with -I wonder how they would get familiar with those substances...
A crow or pry bar is illegal in a car? What? I carry loads of spare tools in my car boot…pretty sure I spotted a long forgotten crow bar tucked in there. I would have no “specific” use excuse for it despite me not ever have been a burglar 😳. Sorry BBB, but some of our laws are just ridiculous and need a revision. For example, I also have a locking pen knife that I dare not keep in the car anymore…despite the fact that the locking action is not used for stabbing people, but rather stopping the blade closing upon one’s fingers during normal use…however I doubt plod would see it that way. Thankfully I believe anecdotally that most judges are pragmatic, but then again…Law is law right!
this means all fuel checks carried out by the police are invalid aswell
Can declining to answer questions you are not obliged, by law, to be grounds for suspicion? Also I have seen some examples from the USA where there are immigration or DUI checkpoints and the driver has supplied all required documents via a bag hung out the window. This keeping the windows rolled up and avoiding the "I smell cannabis" line. Lastly if there were no reasonable grounds and an illegal search performed would any evidence this obtained be inadmissible and what remedy would you be entitled to?
Can you keep a couple of boxes of cow manure in the boot of your car?
Thanks for the info, however, if a copper wants to search a vehicle they have stopped under 163 they will have no problem abusing their power to do so, this will include breaking their own laws & lying.
What are your rights, regarding your own questioning of the police? I.e. “Why did you stop me?” Or, “Why do you want to search me?/My car?” Given there are no exigent circumstances, is the driver allowed to establish their sufficient grounds before allowing any search? Do the police have the right to disregard your questioning? Or must they answer and establish their grounds? My encounters with police usually lead to the officer/s in question refusing to answer any reasonable query. Indeed, even when I’ve been helpful (which is all the time) they seem either not to know, or just not willing to answer. As a teen I was asked who I was and where I was going, by a random (to me at any rate) police officer, to whom I responded, “Do I have to tell you that?” I just got the same question back, but with more, “attitude.” I literally stood my ground and asked, “What are my rights, right now? Am I legally compelled to tell you, a complete stranger, my personal details?” After being ignored a third time, and another officer creeping up behind me, I’m ashamed to say, I caved in and gave them everything. At the end of the encounter, once they were being less intimidating, I tried one last time. “Did I have to tell you my details, by law? What would have happened, if I’d refused?” The answer I got sounded more like a threat than a response to anything I’d asked. I was left feeling like the police don’t want to be trusted or respected, and actively discourage it. This was many years ago now, and I hope things are better? But, sheesh! 🤦♂️ I still don’t really know what my rights are these days? . . . 🤷♂️🙄
Is this the same in Scotland?
Scrubbing your car with a sponge should be an offence.
I wa stopped on my way from work after midnight in my midlife crisis car. I lowered the window and asked what the issue was. " O you can drive on sir, you are not what we are looking for". It took every ounce of restraint not to say " You mean i am a white middle aged man rather than a young black guy". I think the police should need probable cause to pull over any car.
Is there any way to request access to the "intelligence" that has been used to justify their "reasonable grounds"?
Thanks, enjoyed the video.
Intelligence and the police in the same sentence, never thought I would hear that!
Dakrayus
Make a complaint and see it the IOPC find the intelligence they were using to justify their reasonable grounds.
For a long time the IOPC were seen as a poodle of the police but they seem to be upping their game after a lot of adverse publicity about their lack of action against obvious bad uns.
I would have thought you could generate a SAR (Subject Access Request) for the information that led to the "intelligence." Sure BBB could clarify this.
@@JoannaHammond honestly I’m not sure, may be a sanitised version if released so the source isn’t named
Can’t hear music too loud
hi can you explain the right a single woman has the right to not get into a male officer's vehicle (I heard that there is a right to request a woman officer)????
What if the person was on the way to the airport for a fortnights holiday, or longer and didn't have any documents on them when pulled over and asked to produce them?
Good point, I've wondered that too, not being near your documents within the 7 day producer enforcement Period.
Its all bollocks! They do what they like and stop whoever they like, they worry about justifying it after the event, for example I was stopped because one of my passengers looked back as the police car was following me, upon stopping me they claimed they could smell cannabis and proceeded to search the car, after which they searched each of us individually even going to the length of calling a police woman in, to search a female passenger. We were completely innocent of any crime, but since when has that stopped them. I'm sorry, but the Law is worded in such a way that its able to be twisted to suit the police, and there is nothing you can do about it except grin and bear it, its a farce!
Hello. If the police want to search my vehicle with a dog, I am allergic to dogs, and the pc goes ahead, after informing the pc of my condition, meaning I could not drive my car, this has not happened to me but just in case, what is your opinion on this.
The problem is the damage is done even if the search was unlawful because the police will just say the have reasonable suspicion because the reasonable suspicion text is subjective and many police abuse that subjective nature. But you can always claim it was unlawful after they don't find anything and claim against them. Often these claims are settled after a year without going to court
All very well and informative telling us all these acts and subsections, but how are we, the general public, meant to remember all that if stopped by the police?
You educate yourself.... exactly as you would in any walk of life.
Knowledge is power as they say.
Preparation is key...prep for the future like any reasonable person would
You see a risk, you know you need to know some of this stuff...you learn it in advance so your armed with something.
Just because it's complicated doesn't mean it's hard to grasp the basics...have you even tried writing up an overview of the law...
start with differences between INTERNATIONAL LAW Vs DOMESTIC LAW.
Then Breakdown Domestic into PUBLIC VS PRIVATE LAW....
Then breakdown into types of law...& System of courts & their jurisdictions.
Then look deeper into one or more
eg PUBLIC LAW >CRIMINAL LAW >ROAD TRAFFIC LAW >OFFENCES VS PENALTIES >PRIMARY LEGISLATION>SECONDARY LEGISLATION >REGULATIONS >LOCAL LAWS
See that's a working overview just for you.
Now You choose...are you going to be the pigeon or the statue in a legal situation.
so can they enter my camper van if im parked up , if its a live in vehicle... or if its parked in a council or private car park over nite ?
Your camper van is not a 'vehicle'
Love your channel. Serious question. If my car is stopped because a Blue Mondeo was seen at a burglary with a crow bar. Can the police go fishing once they establish I am not and the car is not in question? For example wrong plates and I don't match the suspect. If they did find something say a prohibited substance at the back of the glove box. Can you question on what grounds they have?
So we all know where your drugs stash is now
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@TeflonBilly this man need to find a better place to hide his stash
Because the glovebox is the fist place the police will look
@@bfdmanbfd you're more likely to find a packet of Werther's. Which is a win.
@@NicholasWoodley 👍
The music is too loud in the mix
What if you are carrying a passenger
Can they be Question
Ed Under 163
Can or why should the take your keys of you, when they just been Awkward