John also invited me on Mormon Stories. Twice. I was later told that I also "lacked empathy" and was too controversial and he didn't want to platform me. I asked if I could take him to lunch and go over any differences we had and he never got back to me. Weird behavior for somebody who loves to flex how scared apologists are of him..
One man speaks calmly to a camera explaining rationally his stance and perspective, calling his intellectual opponent his brother. The other yells himself into a red-faced frenzy and name calls his intellectual opponent. Only in 2024 is it the latter who claims he is unsafe around the other.
I can understand John being upset so many Mormon apologists will say anything to make their faith perfect but they won’t talk about the real issues or focus on them either there is such a sense of no empathy or space for compassion. They will support anything the brethren say and will never go against it or stand against it but will twist it into something positive. It sounds very fake and very prideful it’s as if the perspective is to not see others for who they are or accept they walk a different path or a different way in life. There is a lot of hurt caused by such words and actions because the obvious is being looked over and meant to sound as if hurtful words are ok. Members truly do not understand the struggle and fight it is to leave Mormonism they think we leave to sin and many of us it’s not the reason. Can you imagine trying to unwind and erase 42 years of the gospel of Mormonism shoved down your throat? 42 years of wearing a mask and living a fake front as to who you really are to please and impress others while losing who you are and being so sad and so lost because your loving for others and not yourself to earn the love of a so claimed God. Yet the judgement still exists after leaving but now you add shame and shunning to it which brings about more Hirt and more anger of which Mormons aren’t even aware of but still look at you as a failure or a screw up or not a true believer because you left, because you did something that was best for you and your mental health and your sanity and your happiness but for members there’s no compassion for that it’s just judgement and where is Christ in that?
@@lgoldytlgoldyt9827And yet you mentioned nothing of your relationship with Christ or how the Church prevented such a relationship? What exactly was your role in the incidents mentioned?
Any missionary serving in a country or area with non-white ethnicity will tell you that the church organization was not “made for straight, white males”. It is an amazing organization that benefits all people from Relief society, to primary, to Elder’s quorum and Sunday School. It teaches people how to serve in a community, to teach and speak publicly, and how to lead. This is aside from the spiritual benefits. There were many members I met who, because of the church and callings they had had, had progressed in their careers and been promoted to leadership positions at work, both men and women. Those active in the church also, generally had very stable family relationships and their children were much more outgoing and emotionally intelligent than the average youths we would encounter on the streets who spent their time either socially closed off or pursuing things like drugs and sex, lacking the ability to face real life with any degree of seriousness or level-headedness. The notion that the church is made for just one type of person is laughable and hints at a close-minded misunderstanding of what the church, as an organization actually is.
What utter sanctimonious nonsense....... are you forgetting the 126 years of RACIST doctrines and policies upheld by 11 successive 'prophets' who were supposedly speaking to and for God which has now been disavowed, does this RACIST history get taught to the non-white ethnicities?? Are women given any authority over men in the LDS church?? Are people who are born LGBTQ welcome and able to participate?? So JD was absolutely correct by describing the LDS church being for white straight men. A lot of people don't leave the LDS church to pursue drugs or sex as you disingenuously imply, most leave because they've discovered the awkward history, the polygamy, men marrying children as young as 14 years old, they've discovered the BoM is a 19th century work of FICTION, they've discovered the Book of Abraham is NOT a translation as claimed by the 'prophet' Joseph Smith himself but a complete work of FICTION. Doe the LDS church tell prospective members about any of this...... or does it remain hidden in the LDS Gospel Topics Essays??
When the other side turns to personal insults, you’ve won the debate. You guys haven’t even debated, but clearly you’ve struck a chord deep inside of him.
I completely agree -- John is engaging in "ad hominem" attack -- a logical fallacy in which John Dehlin attacks the character, motive, or other personal traits of his perceived opponent instead of addressing the actual argument or issue(s) at hand. The term comes from Latin, meaning “to the person.” Rather than engaging with the substance of the argument, an ad hominem attack shifts the focus to the individual, often as a way to undermine their credibility or distract from the debate. When someone resorts to an "ad hominem" attack, they are running low on ammo.
Totally agree Jacob, I had some interaction with him a while back regarding the interview he had with my brother Mike Norton.. He gave Mike four hours of interview and I reached out to John to offer to give another perspective to the things Mike claimed in the interview that weren't exactly true.. John originally seemed interested then it went weird and he started asking loaded questions and stopped engaging.. as if he was afraid to have Mike's agenda exposed on his channel..
@@oceancoast92657 I feel so sad for your brother. I’ve seen him on a few other things he has posted and he seems to be seriously ill. Either the hate is eating him alive or he is being controlled by demons. I saw a post where he was standing in the dark, in front of a temple of brilliant light. He was holding a sign begging for donations to “destroy the church and burn the “F-ing”temples to the ground”. He was using the most obscene foul language. The contrast to the holy, light filled peaceful temple, with a raging, hate filled manic begging for money was wild. I hope he gets help. 😢 It makes me sad to see people go so dark and hate filled when Leaving the church. Something must have happened to him. 🥲🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 I’m sorry you have to see your brother this way. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I've talked with your brother a couple of times, ever since he did the crop circle stunt in Cache Valley. I tried to have some open discussions with him but then he would become mean and nasty and start swearing at me and calling me horrific names. I kept my cool and I thought to myself, this guy could never treat me as a friend. I'm sorry to say this about your brother. I was fascinated though how he was very generous years ago to the Jehovah's Witnesses and tried to help them out with their building as it was being raised in Nibley Utah.
Jacob put the video back up who cares if it hurts John’s feelings. Why is there a double standard that antis can criticize the church but defenders of the faith are “bigoted” if they criticize antis?
@@aspenmgy I only know that some stranger on the internet told me something without proof or evidence in reply to a comment I made. Even if true, I feel that the spirit of my comment is accurate.
Isn't crazy how exmos like Dehlin adopt the holier than thou attitude that they attribute to the church, the leadership, and the members, and elevate themselves above them with their new found glory. It's pure contentious pride.
I would say John does not have a holoer than thou attitude I see that more in the membership. I lived it for 42 years thinking I was better than others and had something they didn’t have and that attitude ruined me. Leaving the church is humbling and difficult because you realize you are not that person but you are you and loved by Christ the same if not more because you rely on Him more than ever to overcome the complex that an institution taught you to be. Members are so prideful and full of judgement and won’t bow down to a humble space to see others or accept the journey they are on. You all place judgment because we left something that hurt is or just didn’t work for us and refuse to accept the path we walk now as we judge what we have lived and experiences and you all expect us to leave and stay silent and leave it alone. For many of us we have found our voices and found our feelings and can now express them freely and gain some healing by telling our stories because they aren’t being written for us by men anymore
@@lgoldytlgoldyt9827I’d say your post has a holier than thou attitude: “members are so prideful and full of judgement” That’s a pretty broad statement for a whole category of millions of people…
@@lgoldytlgoldyt9827 That would be a very hard way to live. I’m so sorry that was your perception of yourself towards others. I’m an active member and have been taught from scriptures and leaders that I have a sacred stewardship towards my brothers and sisters inside and outside of the church to love and bear others burdens. To follow Christ in compassion and love. In fact, King Benjamin states:(From the Book of Mormon) “When ye are in the service of your fellow man, ye are only in the service of your God.” And I could list thousands of talks and scriptures that teach us members we have a sacred duty to love, bless and lift our fellow man. That we are all beggars before God. No one is better than the other. Not sure how you developed your arrogant prideful take. That must have been difficult to carry around. 😢 I’m glad you don’t have that burden to bear anymore.
If there's someone that is very good at manipulation, it's John Dehlin. He talks about empathy, and yes empathy is important, but the way he uses it on his channel is extremely manipulative. Example 1: He has David Archuletta's mother on his channel. She cries and says that people in the church ask her about "her son", not recognizing that she has two sons. He connects with her with empathy, agreeing that it's a church problem. With his educational background he knows it's a social group problem in general, not a church problem. Any parent of any famous person has seen this same thing happen. Just because her social group is her ward does not mean it's a church problem. But John uses his "empathy" to send his listeners the message "the church is the problem". Example 2: He has a former bishop on his channel complaining that when his family was in need everyone in the ward prayed for his family, but nobody stepped up to help. John again manipulates this situation to make it seem like a church problem. In fact we are taught to act AND to pray, and John knows this, but the way he uses the situation he tells his viewers it's a church problem. Example 3: He states that masturbation isn't a sin, that "bishops masturbate" and "stake presidents masturbate". He has no authority to make a statement what is sin and what isn't, and he manipulates the situation claiming church leaders are guilty of it. If they are, they are aware of the atonement and they seek professional help. If he saw them, he's beaching confidentiality. And of all the clients he has had that want to break that habit, he ONLY brings them up. The way he says it, he makes it sound like "all bishops and stake presidents do this, it's okay, go ahead and do it too". And again the context of the message is stating this is a church problem. In fact, it's a social problem. I have compassion for him, I really do, but I also recognize, as a mental health professional, how he uses his professional background to manipulate every interview.
@@af146983 "i think more equating Delin to Korihor" Korihor was never a member of the church; Nehor was apostate. What is remembered is Alma's argument with Korihor and not so much is known about Nehor but it is the argument that is similar. Alma tied knots in Korihor's arguments. As for me, I am certainly more of an Alma than a Nehor or Korihor. I would love to be compared to Alma.
Interesting. The #1 thing I think about Jacob when watching is that he is SO intense. Unwavering. & that’s coming from someone who myself tends toward intense (partially contribute to my LDS upbringing). I see John intense at moments but no way not even close to the ballpark of Jacob’s constant unwavering intensity. & I’m ok w/intensity. I’m just learning now, I have watched some of Steve. Is he neutral then on the John/Jacob spectrum of LDS beliefs? On the intensity scale my barometer would be Steven at the bottom (low intensity), John in the middle, & Jacob very top! He’s like staring you down taking no prisoners, sticking to his line of reasoning unwavering. Does he even breathe or look away from his singular focus? Sorry not trying to talk anything polarizing religious but just generally trying to see how it is that you see him as “chill”😂. He one of the last people I see as chill. Steve would fit that 100 x more IMO. Am I missing something?
John’s statement is so heinous. “I’m not going to feel safe”. So no matter what Jacob has to say in response from a different viewpoint is now suddenly a “threat”. What a joke.
It’s the language of progressives. They deflect with accusations and one of those is labeling their opposition with the attribution of danger. Colleges rant the same line of “safe spaces” which are just places they can escape reality and live with their own confirmation bias. It is cowardly and accusatory like the Adversary is too.
My exmo brother literally said the same thing to my family to blame me for why he won’t come by for family gatherings. He cited wrestlings fights we had as kids as still traumatizing him in his 30’s.
People like Dehlin are just following the leftist script. They accuse you of doing precisely what they are doing to you. They call you a bigoted jerk and then when you say that you disagree with what they believe they scream and cry about your lack of empathy. All leftists work like this. Transgender activists spew hateful things against people who believe differently than them. Then if you say anything they don’t like - no matter how mild - they rage against you and say that they don’t feel safe. A total cop out and incredibly manipulative.
That's a very nice thought. But I promise you, he doesn't care. Do you have any idea how much money he would give up if he resumed faithfulness? He literally could not afford it. Not the way he looks at life.
This reminds me of how exmormons complain that church officials and apologists won't engage and have conversations. I guess they have their reasons and so does John Dehlin.
Why you can't rationize wth a narcissist: Rationalizing with a narcissist is often futile because their thought patterns and emotional needs are deeply ingrained and resistant to logical reasoning. Here are the key reasons why it’s difficult to rationalize with a narcissist: 1. Emotional Over Logic Narcissists prioritize their feelings, needs, and perceptions over facts or logic. If the discussion challenges their sense of superiority or control, they may dismiss rational points to protect their self-esteem. 2. Defense Mechanisms They often use denial, projection, or gaslighting to avoid accountability. Rather than admit fault, they might shift blame onto others or distort reality to fit their narrative. 3. Fear of Vulnerability Rational discussions often require introspection and humility, which narcissists avoid at all costs. Acknowledging someone else’s point might feel like a loss of control or an attack on their fragile self-esteem. 4. Need for Control Narcissists have a deep need to dominate conversations and control outcomes. They may dismiss logical arguments simply to maintain power in the interaction. 5. Lack of Empathy Rationalizing often involves understanding and considering another person’s perspective. Narcissists’ inability or unwillingness to empathize makes it hard for them to see the merit in someone else’s argument. 6. Fixation on Winning Conversations with narcissists can become a "win-or-lose" scenario. Their goal is often to "win" the argument, not to seek mutual understanding or resolution.
The fact that John Dehlin can’t stop talking and obsessing over the Church is all you need to know. I respect when someone decides that the Church isn’t for them. But it always makes me question how secure someone is in their decision to leave the LDS faith when they spend half their life trying to convince others that the Church isn’t true. At some level, I think these defectors aren’t totally sure that the church isn’t true. So, they obsess over looking for evidence that supports their decision to leave the church. These “nonbelievers” then try to evangelize their disbelief to anyone they can get to listen, subconsciously hoping that the more people they can lead away from the church, the more credence their decision to abandon their faith will have. If confronted about their obsession to lead people away from the Church, they will invariably say something about how they discovered the church wasn’t true and now they want to help people escape their oppressive beliefs. I have been a member of the church for 30 years and I have yet to see how the Church has hurt anyone. If you decide to leave the Church, I support that decision, but please stop looking pathetic by obsessing over something you supposedly don’t believe and move on with your life.
I would leave the Church alone but somehow it won’t leave me alone. I still get missionaries drop by about 1 a month. I have taken my name off the records. I have told them I have left the church and have removed my records but somehow they just keep coming by. If they weren’t 18-19 year olds I probably would do something more drastic but they are kids at the end of the day. Tell your church to stop sending your missionaries and Ward members by.
@@LomochenkoYou Are A Hypocrite I See You Still commenting on LDS channel and Ward radio then you said I can leave the church alone I don't think so 😂
The whole "you lack empathy" thing comes across as super disingenuous to me. It's poisoning the well, for starters. And it's also super prideful, as though John's views are correct bc he's a good person, and Jacob's views are wrong bc he's not as good of a person. And if Jacob would just develop some empathy for a change, he'd stop criticizing John as much and agree with him more.
It makes the assumption and forces the assumption of evil intentions or psychopathy. It’s the “do your parents know you’re gay?” If you say no. You’re gay. If you say yes, you’re gay. Do your parents know you are a psychopath without empathy?
Moses 6:37 And it came to pass that Enoch went forth in the land, among the people, standing upon the hills and the high places, and cried with a loud voice, testifying against their works; and all men WERE OFFENDED because of him. Yes Jacob you are soooooo offensive. Keep it up!
John Dehlin appears bitter and resentful that the church will not change to accommodate his worldview, preferring instead to stir up contention. What a miserable man he is.
@@nataly140 agreed. It is just slower changing with the times. Just like it always has. A little behind everyone else but they are changing. It is nothing like the church I grew up with in the 80s
People like to think that the church, under human leaders, is somehow trying to fit in with the world. This has never been the case. Not only has the church never fit in with the world, but its leaders have never made decisions without divine guidance.
@@jc72outdoors But I thought God was the same yesterday, today, and forever? And I thought his doctrines were never changing? Or is it his policies? Or is it former doctrines that are now considered policies? Or is it prophets speaking for God (D&C 1:38 “…whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.”) that is changing? Or is it past prophets that teach doctrine and is now disavowed by current prophets (Adam-God doctrine)? Or…is it temple ceremonies, polygamy, word of wisdom, blacks and the priesthood, the several first vision accounts, edits to the BoM, etc., etc? I just get so confused with the Mormon never-changing God.
@@TheSheistyBluntI have seen his videos on Julie Hanks. He never calls her names. He strongly disagrees with her philosophy and is critical of her helping tens of thousands of Latter-day Saints justify abandoning their covenants. Criticizing her actions isn't rude when they're harmful. It's the wicked that take the truth to be hard.
At 5:20 he states, "Drinking is usually the first step someone takes as a right of passage when leaving the church. It's almost like an exmormon baptism." Do you consider this statement to be "thoughtful" and "without malice"?
Lack of conversation and the talk behind the curtain shows John’s true colors. He’s not really willing to have a true and real conversation, he only wants to be in his controlled world. Dangerous man. He’s a wolf.
Wait but one poster on here said Jacob Hanson is so “chill”😂how could you be afraid of him? I’m Dying. All religious debates aside, Jacob comes off as intense & threatening. Like many LDS men in my life it feels comfortable to me. I agree with you that Jacob is someone to be scared of & not “chill” 💯.
I'm not a Mormon and have no desire to be one. However this man calling himself a life coach, no matter his religious beliefs, is already a major red flag to me. Every life coach I have ever met has been a scam artist.
Every exmo on TH-cam or insta are all shilling “coaching” it’s sad. Pedal doubt and when life falls apart they offer coaching which is do drink go sleep around…. Really good life advice from people who “just escaped the Mormon cult” 😂😂
“We all have positive feelings about Jesus, but the atonement is actually insidious doctrine, because it’s all based on a deficit model of your brokenness, and you needing someone to make you clean and to make you whole.” - John Dehlin (Minute 21 Mark). TO WHOM SHALL WE GO? For behold, my brethren, it is given onto you to judge, that ye may no good from evil’, and the way to judge is as plain, that you may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night. For behold, the spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto a way to judge; for every thing which invite us to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God. But whatsoever thing persuaded men, to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then you may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil… And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that you do not judge wrongfully. - Moroni 7:15-18 By their fruits, you shall know them: Someone endured a whole lot of yucky stuff to create this collage of unwholesomeness th-cam.com/video/rXuAyJ1Qw1o/w-d-xo.html John Daehlin, repent, repent and believe the gospel. Stop sliming the best thing on earth and cleverly and craftily, and persuasively using people whose faith, you broke to increase your ability to break the faith of more people! - David Alexander
What video does that quote come from? I remember John Dehlin saying this, but I forget what video it was. After I heard him say this it substantiated what I've long believed about John -- he is an atheist.
I get very similar responses from my friends and family who are ‘progressives’ when it comes to honestly discussing differences in religion or politics. It’s like they have a whispering desire, a sense of logic and rational, that they can have an honest conversation face to face with someone of an opposing view and get along. However, if given time they are flooded with doubts and dark thoughts and want to avoid us. If given the chance these conversations go well in person, but many times the doubts stop them from reaching that point. It strikes me as the same as when someone investigates the church. They might enjoy the spirit of God as they speak with missionaries, visit a members home, read, pray, and go to church, but if too much time goes by or a lack or prayer or scripture study, then the spirit of God isn’t there enough and they get influenced to not speak with us anymore. A very common story unfortunately.
The biggest factor when it came to joining the church, was all of the negativity I received for investigating it. When people come at you with anger and slandering words, you know you are doing the right thing. May God continue to bless you for standing with Him at all costs ☀️
The Jehovah's Witnesses feel the same way. That reasoning is deeply flawed. If what you say is true then the Jehovah's witness faith would also be true.
Jehovah's Witnesses also feel persecuted. They genuinely have been and were put in concentration camps in the Second World War. This I guess proves they were right.
That doesn't seem to be a reliable way to determine that what you're doing is right. They might just be concerned for you and don't know how to express it well. I'm sure many members of the Church felt the same way when their relatives decided to follow BY out west to live polygamy and leave Nauvoo and the original church that Joseph started. The same as you might feel if a family member of yours might choose to join the FLDS Church. The Church does teach probably more truth than most religions and has a great structure for families, but also seems to teach many falsehoods and things contrary to the teachings of Jesus. Thus why Jesus taught against joining any formal religions and just following simple truths like he taught on our own.
Yea… I’m a bit doubtful that anything good would come from meeting with him. Not after he demanded you change your opinion and conversation about Julie Hanks. Julie doesn’t need him to bully you into an apology… especially when one isn’t warranted. If Julie wanted to discuss on air with you the criticisms leveled at her… she can ask for that discussion herself… she’s a big girl.
Jacob he may not drink or smoke but according to women that worked with him, he had plenty of unwanted ted sexual advances, causing them to leave his organization. We have a friend that served his mission with Dehlin and he was a problem on his mission so this goes way back. People are trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but maybe that is being too generous.
Wow I feel like I’m in relief society again with all the gossip😂oh wait…maybe this is what happened behind closed does in the important priesthood meetings all along & I never knew 🤔
The truth is John is freaking scared out of his wits! He knows he doesn't have a logical leg to stand on and he will be mentally destroyed when he actually has to think instead of feel. John has been looking for a way out of this ever since you called his bluff!
Ummm. Faith, by definition, doesn't have a logical leg to stand on. Believing in things without evidence (which is irrational) is faith. I still see value in faith, but trying to pretend like there is evidence is faulty thinking.
@@terrillmel until faith becomes KNOWLEDGE - hence the evidences are provided to those with said faith. For example, Copernicus had to have some sort of faith in his work, else we'd have a very different cosmology, wouldn't we? There is some conflation with the terminology and understanding of how faith works in every sphere wherein truth is being sought. The notion that faith is based on something that does not exist is the real fallacy here. Faith is something we all act upon every moment of our lives and a serious investigation into this concept will render some pretty remarkable understanding of our personal faith, once undertaken (seriously). Another example is the faith that astronomers have in black holes. No one has ever [actually] laid eyes on one, and apparently one wouldn't "see it" anyway, due to the immense light around it's event horizon. What's the work based on? Math. There's some math involved that has to be proved out, so billions of dollars are spent on the idea - that's "faith".
John knows that Jacob wouldn’t came face-to-face with John Dehlin with his bad apologetics. There are too many holes in the “restored gospel” or should I say “ongoing restoration”. Ongoing means that they are bringing you a new revelation pertaining to the kingdom of God, but instead you have them removing doctrines. That’s not ongoing restoration, that’s reduction to past doctrines. God was Adam, now he’s not. Blacked were cursed, now they aren’t. Polygamy was required to go to the high test level of the celestial kingdom, now it’s not doctoring according to pres Hinkley. Book of Abraham was written by his own hand and translated by Joseph smith, now we believe that it wasn’t written by Abraham at all and is not an actual translation but instead a Catalyst used to bring forth the book of Abraham. I could go on, but I think you get my point.
I honestly do believe John Dehlin is trying to do good. I don't think he's intentionally and knowingly trying to deceive members of the church with stuff he knows isn't true. John has served as a place of empathy and compassion for many members of the church who have begun to deconstruct their faith. I was one of those members. My cousin is a good friend of John's and would often tell me how he had been helped immensely by John's podcast. When my faith, marriage, and mental health were in absolute shambles, I messaged John directly and told him my situation. He was not pushy, he didn't jump all over and capitalize on my faith concerns and doubts. He just listened. He offered support in how I needed it at the time. Over the next few years, I reconstructed my faith completely. But I'll tell you, that was born from the non-judgemental empathy, love, and compassion from both members of the church and also ex mormons like John. Eventually I began to see the foundation of my faith had more been created by the culture and people around me rather than the rock of our Redeemer - Jesus Christ. I investigated many churches and faiths. Over time I eventually found myself back in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Not because I had nowhere else to go and because I was pressured back in. I rejoined the faith because of the fruit that came from exercising faith in the restored gospel. I know early and current church leaders are imperfect. I know revelation isn't a perfect process. I know that "bishop roulette" is a real thing and each of us as members need to make sure we continually know and remind ourselves what the foundation and reason for our being members of this church is. If that is contingent on bishops, stake presidents, other members, or even the apostles never offending us or making honest human errors - we will struggle to stay. I know I did. FAITH is a power. Faith without knowing reaps benefits. I lost sight of that for a while. It's people like Jacob, Cardon, Kwaku, Dave, Don, etc sharing their experiences that helped me reconstruct. If I look at my own experience, I see similarities of myself in John. I feel John still has too much that he hasn't processed from negative experiences with the church he's had. This consistently prevents him from opening himself to civil conversations. This was 100% what happened to me. You can see little hints of this in his interview with the Paul brothers, he's still hurting. I know he is. Like I was, he's respectful most of the time, until he isn't and can't be. It's because he's hijacked with grief, fear, hatred, and resentment to members and leaders of the church. And John, if you happen to read this, please know that you haven't strayed too far to be healed from the events of your past. You very well may have had good reason to leave the church when you did. What was done to you was not ok and like Jeremy Runnels, you were given very little empathy and compassion for the questions and concerns you had. I challenge you to be willing to risk everything to rediscover and reconstruct your faith in the restored gospel.
Is it anger or is it seeing the church you once loved and loved becoming more hurtful and more harmful and the people following in the same manner and feel you can’t slow the pace but you can give a helping hand to anyone trying to escape the inferno . There is so much anger when you leave anger that is questioned over and over, I’ve had people tell me it’s because I left I say no it’s because I am now free but those I love are stuck in the tunnel vision I once saws life through and I now stand outside that tunnel where I am not seen, heard or understood and my new faith and relationship with Christ is not alright so I’m not seen as me imagine the anger in that. You stand in a whole mother world alone screaming from the top of your lungs here I am this is me love me for who I am, all we see is shame, guilt, shunning, fake friendships that once were, members who judge us instead of loving us as Christ loves us because that love does not exist in the church because you are to busy aiming for perfection and earning Gods love than to just follow what He taught and be who He is
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Joseph Smith...Brigham Young....others were not? At least John has not make any wacky claims to Angels with Flaming Swords telling him to marry and have sex with Young Girls and Married Women!!!!
He’s not. Once you’re on the other side, it’s a scary new reality, and John works hard to be a safety net with those who have lost their faith. This personal attack on another human is sick buddy.
Wow! This is so sad. My daughter was bullied my the kids at Church and she took her name off the records of the Church. I will keep John in my prayers. There is always hope!!
@IJN-33 I had a similar experience, there was a bully in my ward who was so rude every Sunday when I was a kid. He's left the church. I feel bad for him
"My daughter was bullied my the kids at Church and she took her name off the records of the Church" My daughter was also bullied by the kids at church *but* has not removed her name; no need for that. As she is becoming a mother it may occur to her some benefits from church affiliation.
The truth is John is afraid of looking the fool. He knows he will not be able to play you once in person. Your meeting would be filmed and so he knows the world will see he hasn't got a leg to stand on. He has no foundation... only accusations... and you would be able to refute those for the world to witness. We love you Br. Hansen
Isnt it pretty much a guarantee that someone who strongly accuses another of lacking empathy is the one who lacks?? Can anyone imagine President Nelson criticizing another for lacking empathy?
lol he left at 4 hours and 13 minutes because it ran way over the time budget. You make it seem like he was run off by them, that is objectively not the case at all. He mentioned several times he had a time he had to leave by. He walked off amicably. This is why I have a hard time trusting anyone on the internet. John, Jacob, you, everyone just stretching the truth.
I've been watching John for years, all the way back to the early days of MS, when he was, dare I say, somewhat tolerable. But eventually, I had to step away-for the sake of my own sanity. It’s unfortunate, but I have to admit, his behavior is nothing short of a masterclass in being problematic. For starters, his career seems to hinge on bulldozing over anyone else’s opinion, as if only his perspective has the divine right to exist. Back in the early MS days, he was actually capable of respect-imagine that! But over time, he’s transformed into an extremist, someone who only sees the world in stark black and white, and who has perfected the art of manipulation to rally people to his hollow cause. It’s a truly tragic downfall. The worst part? Too many people have willingly jumped aboard his bandwagon to nowhere. Now, he’s the walking embodiment of scripture’s warning: the blind leading the blind. And sadly, the end of that road isn’t exactly a scenic view.
I think you're right. I too followed John in the early days. I started to see, though, how he would spin his interviews. It dawned on me that there had never been an episode (remember this is probably more than a decade ago) in which he did not use the word, polyandry. Then I saw how he tried to milk his church discipline for publicity, despite that his own website revealed his fundamental rejection of Christian faith.
This is just crazy to me. John is in so much pain and trauma, he cannot see the hypocrisy of his words and actions. 🤷🏼♀️ I hope he can find peace and healing.
There are many reasons why I pity John Dehlin, one of them being that he never mentally graduated high school, as we saw with his labeling and pettiness.
The problem with John Dehlin is because he was excommunicated from the church for a serious sin, as no one is excommunicated for minor ones, instead of accepting that repenting and getting back on track, he goes around saying about leaders and their sins, which is between them and God. As mine our between me and God no one else. If a leader sins badly, it's for him to put it right, I cannot justify me doing the same. Then he goes around trying to comfort those who have been disaffected because of stepping outside of the laws of God. Trying to get the church to accept them as they are rather than going through repentance putting it right with God and man. In D&C 88 It says if you cannot abide the law of the Celestial kingdom, you cannot abide a Celestial glory. We have to abide the law of whatever kingdom we end up in. Same here if I step out of the law of the land I am put in prison. It's why we have a spirit prison because these rejected Christ laws and therefore cannot go into the paradise. Moroni 10:32 32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God. We have to deny ourselves of all ungodliness to dwell with God. Only God knows what that is, He reveals it to prophets and we take it or leave it. Those who deny themselves of ungodly actions, thoughts and words dwell with God those who want to live by their own laws live in one of the other kingdoms. No one is forced to live Celestial law. John Dehlin won't do a show with you because you have truth on your side which will make him look an idiot and put an end to his podcast. What he's really saying is until you become more like me I can't have a conversation with you. People who call you names do it because their logic cannot stand against truth no more than darkness can exist in the light. It's all about the teddy bear Jesus rather than man up and repent, just accept them as they are, no growth or development never become anything special like a God. When I joined the church it was blatantly obvious that lots of changes needed to be made no way was God going to accept me as I was. I glad He didn't as I have become so much more loving kind and empathetic. Respect women more I could go on and on I was so far away from Christ and far closer to the devil, not an ideal place to find yourself. John wears a hat that says thrive! If I was thriving in life I certainly wouldn't be doing podcasts bitching about the church the people or the laws they are living up to. You only do that because his life offers nothing else of interest so sad!
He was excommunicated for speaking out against church leaders which is something every member of the church should be willing to do when it is warranted. But since the church leaders refuse to accept criticism and must maintain control, they excommunicate dissidents when they get loud enough.
What utter delusional garbage..... The LDS church has a history of excommunicating those who shine a light on it's awkward history, the cover-ups, the continuously changing narrative, the dishonesty and fraud and some of the harmful practices. They have recently excommunicated Nemo the Mormon (Douglas Stilgo) for shining a light on the lies told by some of the church leaders. Instead of putting their own hose in order they punish those who speak out.
I've become quite familiar w/ John Dehlin's content over the years. He may have his share of flaws, but I don't see any sin he committed that is worth being excommunicated over. I believe his excommunication was on political grounds more than moral grounds.
@@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i if that's all it was, he would be more consistent. But he's built on a foundation of his own hubris and he's paralyzed with fear that it will fall
@@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i really he is just so pointing out his own ignorance and misguided expectations of it. it’s a religion he doesn’t understand. combine with narcissism and we get Dehlin.
It always cracks us up when people say that every person who leaves the church “becomes smokers, drinkers, druggies, and swingers”. Honey I think you better take a lonnnng hard look at SLOMW and ask yourself who the “smokers, drinkers, druggies, and swingers” are. Not every person who is in the church does this (in secret) and not everyone who leaves the church chooses destruction. Geez Jacob!
"Not every person who is in the church does this (in secret) and not everyone who leaves the church chooses destruction." I don't think the first part of that sentence is what you wanted to write. But it is true, I am sure, that " not everyone who leaves the church chooses" smoking, drinking and so forth. But "not everyone" is a really low standard. It is possible for generalizations to be true as generalizations, despite the existence of counter-examples.
I actually think there's something to the "male body female brain" argument. John Dehlin may look like a middle aged man, but don't be fooled: he's actually a 15 year old bipolar chick who's losing her sanity. I pray that John will find a resolution to his identity crisis.
I'm sorry, but I don't see John as honest. But, maybe he is...kinda like a rabid dog is sincere. That's it! He's sick and hurting and lashing out, doing much more harm than good. And he can't see it or understand it.
Doesn't think he's "going to feel safe"? This is a very specific usage of the word safe. Usually, its about your physical well being. In this case, John is saying that he won't feel emotionally comfortable. He's taking his own emotions that are a result of being challenged on his ideas and blaming others for it. This is why he says so many people who disagree him lack empathy. I also feel uncomfortable when people challenge me because, like many people, I get embarrassed easily, worry what other people think, and am prone to negative emotions. But those emotions are separate issues to whether I'm right in a discussion or not.
This is interesting. I don't necessarily see a distinction between being "nefarious" and somehow wanting to make the Church (and, more relevantly, Mormon culture) over into something that matches "progressive" (it's not, really) identitarianism. Because as you show here, Dehlin is not just a hypocrite but a person who is not able to defend his expressed viewpoints without turning the defense into a weird attack on the character of anyone who disagrees. "You're a bigot," he says. "You lack empathy," he says. "I don't feel safe," he says. (That last is the lamest of all.) Dehlin, Hanks, Reel, all those folks have decided that their pop culture morality trumps the laws, ordinances and covenants of the Gospel of Jesus Christ ... and yet they are unable to suggest why or how that might be true without engaging in the unhinged rants like the one you feature in this video. If you think about it, that makes Dehlin the one lacking in empathy. He's unwilling to concede that you or other faithful members of the Church have sincere beliefs and that we can and do approach others with love. It leaves him raging, almost spitting, as we see him in that clip.
So ALL THE OTHER TIMES when Dehlin is calm....for hours at a time....that doesn't count? (Are you unexposed to Jacob and LDS Apologists when they are spitting out in minor rages???)
@ That’s funny. “Doesn’t count.” Like what you’re supposed to do is add up normal minutes and count them against nasty, name-calling, abusive minutes. Hilarious. And then blame “LDS Apologists” for being unreasonable and mean and stuff. Comedy gold, baby. Sort of like the guy who abuses his wife. What about ALL THE OTHER TIMES when I was nice, he asks. :-)
@ Look up the word, whataboutism. Gosh, you guys are so lame. I get that Dehlin shows his ugly side. Yours too, that’s the problem. You don’t like it, that’s why you’re trying to defend him. Maybe get some empathy.
Learning about narcissism was such a game-changer for me. Understanding how people manipulate others should really be something everybody knows, much like everybody should know to stay away from dangerous predators. Sometimes, the best you can do is not engage and draw firm boundaries. I think John understands that very well. Sadly, I see narcissistic patterns of abusive manipulation all too often in the LDS community.
Says a member of a church that is terrible to those who have left labeling them unbelievers, faithless, or apostates. But cool, go ahead and pick up that rock and throw it.
The Stick of Joseph interview was very eye opening. I suddenly saw a man who struggles with scrupulosity and wrongly identified that pain with the church. He is trying to rescue people from that kind of pain, not realizing the power of Jesus Christ is bigger and more far reaching than he has ever kown. Come home John! Arms will open wide.
@@-tikla you do realize that literally millions of people who aren’t Mormon believe in the power of Jesus Christ right? Jesus isn’t exclusive to Mormons
When you know you are only speaking truth, you have confidence on your side. If you're not confident that what you're saying is the truth, you will fear being challenged.
I love how you act like John Dehlin is the boss at the end of a video game. He has no bearing on the fact that the Lamanites and Jaredites never existed
@@_Lachoneus Proven....via DNA...Archeology... Anachronisms... Frankly the burden is on you to back up the claims of Joseph Smith about "The Book of Mormon" and its content.....SINCE there is nothing settled to date. The best you can claim is that absolute proof does not exist to dismiss all of that completely. There is little room to PROVE IT ALL....but it exists.
@_Lachoneus the book doesn’t describe the history of the Americas at all. The people in the Americas came over from Eastern Asia and trace their ancestry back to there. They didn’t have livestock such as horses, goats, donkeys or animals like elephants. They had deer, dogs, jaguars, turkeys and marine life. They didn’t have wheat but ate beans corn and squash. They didn’t use gold and silver coins for currency but use cacao beans, feathers, jade, and other forms of trade. Their metallurgy was varied but they didn’t write on metal plates and their languages were not Hebrew or Egyptian in origin. They did not use iron or steel tools for agriculture during Book of Mormon times. They did not have a Christian religion in any way including the writings of Deutero Isaiah or the New Testament
@kuriju88 we have much to learn about the story of the americas. Entire civilizations are buried under jungle growth. Just because some of those things you mentioned are unprecedented or undiscovered doesn't mean they didn't happen on a scale described in the bom. And time has proven much kinder to the bom than the critiques of it. Much to the chagrin of critics, there are many aspects of the bom that point to ancient origins. I'm sure you're familiar. I'm unconvinced by JS's purported endless access to obscure books and so many "lucky guesses" for the best naturalistic explanation critics can cook up. Joseph's (or anyone else's) access to the Bible and alleged genius creativity just doesn't add up to the bom. In my world-view, the burden of proof is still on the critics...
Congratulations! If John Dehlin criticises you, you have made the top tier of good people and saints. But don't bother going on his show; it's like trying to argue with Lucifer himself! It's a total waste of time. By the way, Lucifer also knows everything is true,
@@krismurphy7711 Actually, not telling bad stories and tragedies isn't necessarily lying, when done with good intentions. There are no legitimate reasons to make public Smiths sins and shortcomings.
@@Charlie-xu4zh LDS's own Articles of Faith, Be honest in your dealings with your fellow man. Deliberate omission in order to win favour is DISHONEST!!!!! But then again the LDS church has a history of hiding the truth.
This is a classic narcissistic interaction. They can't accept that others have valid feelings that don't align with theirs. They manipulate and belittle you because of your feelings or beliefs. Thank you for explaining your side of the story, Jacob. Keep standing up for truth.
While I can agree that going on the show may be a bad move, I don't see the point is calling his viewers "minions". It just doesn't strike me as a christian attitude or one that moves the conversation forward.
Truthfully, I can't see how people don't see right through John's questions, as well as those of most of his co-hosts. My wife and I watched a recent episode and she exclaimed, "Objection, your honor, leading the witness." 🤣
Some of the videos I've seen of Dehlin's, such as his interview with the New Name Noah guy, persuade me to believe he is past feeling. I doubt much would be accomplished meeting with him.
Saludos desde Lima Perú, tienes razón Jacob, hace años cuando confrontaba mi fe, vi muchos vídeos de Dehlin y pensé que esa capaz era la mejor forma de vivir, siendo buena persona libre y sin la necesidad de la Iglesia y su dogma, y eso que Perú aún es en cierta medida conservador, pero ya se está sembrando bastante en los pensamientos de los jóvenes el progresismo tanto a hombres como mujeres, entonces creí en cierta manera que esa vida que Dehlin promovía era bastante atractivo para mí, al madurar y cuestionar ambas partes,, me di cuenta que era un serio error dejar la Iglesia porque ya estaba viendo esa polarización radical en el pensamiento, gracias Jacob por tu contenido, que Dios te bendiga.
Those who sell the Holy One of Israel for 20 pieces of silver and expose him to shame will not be forgiven in this life or in the life to come. All they deserve is a serious warning and a deaf ear, period.
Summed up. John Dehlin: "I don't feel safe if I'm not the one in control, so I don't feel safe on even footing with someone who disagrees with me." I think he had the Paul brothers on because they advocate a position, but they don't post reaction videos or rebuttals. Personally, I also think there is another factor where he felt like he could control the conversation because they are younger and less experienced. Fundamentally, John does not "feel safe" with someone he doesn't feel like he can control. His emails are tests to see if he can control your behavior. You having empathy, the way he uses it, means agreeing with him. Or at least, not disagreeing with him. Also, like a lot of people, I don't think he can tell the difference between throwing character accusations and judgements (like when he calls Jacob "heinous") and descriptions of fact (Jacob showing specific conversations). With people like that, since they cannot distinguish good faith and bad faith arguments, they can't be relied on for good faith conversations. I've seen this a lot with certain relatives who have left the church. They get paranoid, even claiming that I disagree with them as a plot to make them look bad in front of other people--even in conversations where I've pointed out that we're disagreeing and we can change topics, and they are the one that pursued the conversation. At the heart of it, people who really drink the leftist cool-aid become fragile people who are afraid of someone disagreeing and need an affirmative chorus of group think to feel safe. Also, I think a lot of the people leaving the church in the last 20 years are so are actually the most dogmatic people, jumping ship to woke culture because it is even more dogmatic than the LDS church. The individual I mentioned above was very dogmatic as a member of the church, and not just as dogmatic as a woke person outside the church. She has always views the world through a black-and-white lens. She once even commented, before her woke views hardened, that she noticed a lot of people who remain in the church around her are the ones that have a more nuanced view.
Great video Jacob. Thank you for standing for the truth, and not backing down. John knows the truth, and I'm sure it hurts him whenever he faces it. This is why he might be avoiding you. His pride has him in a pickle because he won't humble himself and come back to church. We should pray for him.
I just don’t like the double standard, John criticizes and brings on guests who criticize and it’s good… but when Jacob does it it’s heinous and bigoted.
He seems like a very emotionally manipulative guy, especially his harping on “empathy”. No wonder why he’s popular with women almost out of the church. He’s projecting his hurt onto everyone that comes on his show.
I'm proud of you Jacob. I've enjoyed your information. I've actually prayed for John in hopes he would find peace with the Lord again. I feel he is hurting too. ❤️
Sir, I do subscribe your channel. Thanks. keep up the good work. I hope we always take care our personal mental health, by active in the Church, by praying regularly, studying our scriptures, serving our families and neighbors, and do positives activities with them.
Why did the Paul Brothers Dehlin Podcast last almost 6 hours? A narcissist might continue a conversation indefinitely if they feel they are losing control, cannot reconcile their perspective with others, or feel their ego is threatened. Here’s why this might happen: 1. Need to Maintain Control A narcissist often needs to feel dominant in a conversation. If they sense they are losing an argument or their viewpoint isn’t prevailing, they may drag out the discussion, hoping to outlast or wear down the other person. 2. Avoidance of Accountability They might resist concluding a conversation to avoid admitting fault or conceding a point. Keeping the discussion going allows them to evade resolution and maintain their sense of superiority. 3. Emotional Manipulation Narcissists can use prolonged discussions to frustrate or exhaust others, potentially forcing the other person to give in or disengage. This tactic reinforces their control and protects their fragile self-esteem. 4. Refusal to Let Go If a narcissist perceives the conversation as a challenge to their identity or beliefs, they may continue obsessively until they feel they’ve "won," regardless of the time or emotional toll on others. 5. Lack of Empathy A narcissist’s inability to consider others’ emotional energy or time makes it easier for them to drag conversations to extremes without recognizing the negative impact.
Disappointed this didn’t happen. You are much more like John Dehlin than you want to admit. You both agree that is Joseph Smith was a pervert, a pedophile, a lying sos, right? So what’s the point? Were you going to try to convince Dehlin that Joseph was still a prophet anyway? You and Dehlin have many similar beliefs.
When you change according to my satisfaction then I will feel safe enough and superior enough to engage with you and win. This is narcissism and manipulation. Not your fault. He is governed by his fear and will receive wages from that spirit.
The Church itself is pulling the rug from under Jacob's feet. For example on two occaisions having Gay Men's Choirs performing at visitors' centers. The Church itself is making small shifts to accomodate John Dehlin's world view...or at least ensure that people with "woke" views feel less uncomfortable if they attend.
@@Themanyfacesofego They will make the full shift. Just wait. The already a completely shifted away from polygamy, blacks being denied the priesthood, the name Mormon, etc.
@@Lomochenko the church will NOT make a full shift! To do so would be apostasy. But to have a choir sing is simply accepting people. They are children of God too.
@@ThreeD.s You can see a pattern in other denominations: First there is a dialogue with marginalized groups. Commitees are set up etc. Activities happen to bring people together. Language is softened. Then compromises start to happen. For example in denominations of the Anglican religion, Churches cannot yet marry homosexuals, but are allowed to bless them in a church service (following the marriages which have happened elsewhere in registry offices etc.) Members of the congregation are now actually free to be in same sex relationships; Priests can be too as long as these are platonic relationships. A male Priest therefore can be married to another man.
John Dehlin bit so hard on the "white male privilege is evil" meme, that he ended up destroying his faith, his family's faith, and the faith of thousands of others who have been deceived by his youtube channel. His life story is a very sad one, and should serve as an example of a path not to follow.
When a light switch is turned on, the darkness has no choice but to flee.
John also invited me on Mormon Stories. Twice. I was later told that I also "lacked empathy" and was too controversial and he didn't want to platform me. I asked if I could take him to lunch and go over any differences we had and he never got back to me.
Weird behavior for somebody who loves to flex how scared apologists are of him..
He sounds like a hypocrite who does not keep his word
I miss your content bro. Getting back to content creation anytime soon?
@@Posidan124 one day
I got called "a Heartless Ghoul" by a Tankie once. Ideologues seem to project quite readily.
John literally blocked me.
I was quite proud of that. 😜
One man speaks calmly to a camera explaining rationally his stance and perspective, calling his intellectual opponent his brother. The other yells himself into a red-faced frenzy and name calls his intellectual opponent. Only in 2024 is it the latter who claims he is unsafe around the other.
Facts
I can understand John being upset so many Mormon apologists will say anything to make their faith perfect but they won’t talk about the real issues or focus on them either there is such a sense of no empathy or space for compassion. They will support anything the brethren say and will never go against it or stand against it but will twist it into something positive.
It sounds very fake and very prideful it’s as if the perspective is to not see others for who they are or accept they walk a different path or a different way in life.
There is a lot of hurt caused by such words and actions because the obvious is being looked over and meant to sound as if hurtful words are ok.
Members truly do not understand the struggle and fight it is to leave Mormonism they think we leave to sin and many of us it’s not the reason.
Can you imagine trying to unwind and erase 42 years of the gospel of Mormonism shoved down your throat? 42 years of wearing a mask and living a fake front as to who you really are to please and impress others while losing who you are and being so sad and so lost because your loving for others and not yourself to earn the love of a so claimed God.
Yet the judgement still exists after leaving but now you add shame and shunning to it which brings about more Hirt and more anger of which Mormons aren’t even aware of but still look at you as a failure or a screw up or not a true believer because you left, because you did something that was best for you and your mental health and your sanity and your happiness but for members there’s no compassion for that it’s just judgement and where is Christ in that?
Incoherent stereotypes and generalizations. @@lgoldytlgoldyt9827
And then has the gall to claim that Jacob is the one that doesn't have empathy. The lack of awareness is astounding.
@@lgoldytlgoldyt9827And yet you mentioned nothing of your relationship with Christ or how the Church prevented such a relationship? What exactly was your role in the incidents mentioned?
Any missionary serving in a country or area with non-white ethnicity will tell you that the church organization was not “made for straight, white males”. It is an amazing organization that benefits all people from Relief society, to primary, to Elder’s quorum and Sunday School. It teaches people how to serve in a community, to teach and speak publicly, and how to lead. This is aside from the spiritual benefits. There were many members I met who, because of the church and callings they had had, had progressed in their careers and been promoted to leadership positions at work, both men and women. Those active in the church also, generally had very stable family relationships and their children were much more outgoing and emotionally intelligent than the average youths we would encounter on the streets who spent their time either socially closed off or pursuing things like drugs and sex, lacking the ability to face real life with any degree of seriousness or level-headedness.
The notion that the church is made for just one type of person is laughable and hints at a close-minded misunderstanding of what the church, as an organization actually is.
But anything else wouldn't support his need to virtue signal 😊
@@DeGreyChristensen the people in other countries are oblivious to all the issues of Mormonism
What utter sanctimonious nonsense....... are you forgetting the 126 years of RACIST doctrines and policies upheld by 11 successive 'prophets' who were supposedly speaking to and for God which has now been disavowed, does this RACIST history get taught to the non-white ethnicities?? Are women given any authority over men in the LDS church?? Are people who are born LGBTQ welcome and able to participate?? So JD was absolutely correct by describing the LDS church being for white straight men. A lot of people don't leave the LDS church to pursue drugs or sex as you disingenuously imply, most leave because they've discovered the awkward history, the polygamy, men marrying children as young as 14 years old, they've discovered the BoM is a 19th century work of FICTION, they've discovered the Book of Abraham is NOT a translation as claimed by the 'prophet' Joseph Smith himself but a complete work of FICTION. Doe the LDS church tell prospective members about any of this...... or does it remain hidden in the LDS Gospel Topics Essays??
@@iknovate If you served in Mission, Salvador, Brazil, you would think the LDS church was made for black females.
Thank you for saying this. John Dehlin’s statement that The Church is just for straight white males is clearly so untrue.
When the other side turns to personal insults, you’ve won the debate. You guys haven’t even debated, but clearly you’ve struck a chord deep inside of him.
Yes!
I completely agree -- John is engaging in "ad hominem" attack -- a logical fallacy in which John Dehlin attacks the character, motive, or other personal traits of his perceived opponent instead of addressing the actual argument or issue(s) at hand. The term comes from Latin, meaning “to the person.”
Rather than engaging with the substance of the argument, an ad hominem attack shifts the focus to the individual, often as a way to undermine their credibility or distract from the debate. When someone resorts to an "ad hominem" attack, they are running low on ammo.
@@kimballrasmussen1307 because the "argument" here is that jacob is a hypocrite
Totally agree Jacob, I had some interaction with him a while back regarding the interview he had with my brother Mike Norton.. He gave Mike four hours of interview and I reached out to John to offer to give another perspective to the things Mike claimed in the interview that weren't exactly true.. John originally seemed interested then it went weird and he started asking loaded questions and stopped engaging.. as if he was afraid to have Mike's agenda exposed on his channel..
@@oceancoast92657
I feel so sad for your brother.
I’ve seen him on a few other things he has posted and he seems to be seriously ill.
Either the hate is eating him alive or he is being controlled by demons.
I saw a post where he was standing in the dark, in front of a temple of brilliant light. He was holding a sign begging for donations to “destroy the church and burn the “F-ing”temples to the ground”. He was using the most obscene foul language.
The contrast to the holy, light filled peaceful temple, with a raging, hate filled manic begging for money was wild.
I hope he gets help. 😢
It makes me sad to see people go so dark and hate filled when Leaving the church.
Something must have happened to him. 🥲🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I’m sorry you have to see your brother this way. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Wow
Now this is a story i want to hear!!
I've talked with your brother a couple of times, ever since he did the crop circle stunt in Cache Valley. I tried to have some open discussions with him but then he would become mean and nasty and start swearing at me and calling me horrific names. I kept my cool and I thought to myself, this guy could never treat me as a friend. I'm sorry to say this about your brother. I was fascinated though how he was very generous years ago to the Jehovah's Witnesses and tried to help them out with their building as it was being raised in Nibley Utah.
Your story would be interesting to hear. Do you think your brother being on the spectrum has a lot to do with his unhealthy obsession with the Church?
Before we discuss our differences, you're going to need to prove you see things my way.
More like, “Before we discuss our differences you must acknowledge me as morally superior.”
Jacob put the video back up who cares if it hurts John’s feelings. Why is there a double standard that antis can criticize the church but defenders of the faith are “bigoted” if they criticize antis?
@@Rangerthehound I believe he made fun of John's family in the removed video.
@@aspenmgy Honestly, I'm a newer sub, so I wouldn't know. Obviously, Jacob is going to do what's best for his channel; I'm just some guy.
@@Rangerthehound knowing now what was in the video do you think he should put it back up?
@@aspenmgy I only know that some stranger on the internet told me something without proof or evidence in reply to a comment I made. Even if true, I feel that the spirit of my comment is accurate.
@@Rangerthehound okay. If that was the actual problem with the video do you think he should leave it down?
Isn't crazy how exmos like Dehlin adopt the holier than thou attitude that they attribute to the church, the leadership, and the members, and elevate themselves above them with their new found glory. It's pure contentious pride.
I would say John does not have a holoer than thou attitude I see that more in the membership. I lived it for 42 years thinking I was better than others and had something they didn’t have and that attitude ruined me. Leaving the church is humbling and difficult because you realize you are not that person but you are you and loved by Christ the same if not more because you rely on Him more than ever to overcome the complex that an institution taught you to be. Members are so prideful and full of judgement and won’t bow down to a humble space to see others or accept the journey they are on. You all place judgment because we left something that hurt is or just didn’t work for us and refuse to accept the path we walk now as we judge what we have lived and experiences and you all expect us to leave and stay silent and leave it alone. For many of us we have found our voices and found our feelings and can now express them freely and gain some healing by telling our stories because they aren’t being written for us by men anymore
@@lgoldytlgoldyt9827I’d say your post has a holier than thou attitude:
“members are so prideful and full of judgement”
That’s a pretty broad statement for a whole category of millions of people…
@@lgoldytlgoldyt9827 Wow, I feel so bad you lived 42 years of being a member and thought you were better than every one else
@@lgoldytlgoldyt9827
That would be a very hard way to live. I’m so sorry that was your perception of yourself towards others.
I’m an active member and have been taught from scriptures and leaders that I have a sacred stewardship towards my brothers and sisters inside and outside of the church to love and bear others burdens. To follow Christ in compassion and love.
In fact, King Benjamin states:(From the Book of Mormon)
“When ye are in the service of your fellow man, ye are only in the service of your God.”
And I could list thousands of talks and scriptures that teach us members we have a sacred duty to love, bless and lift our fellow man. That we are all beggars before God. No one is better than the other.
Not sure how you developed your arrogant prideful take. That must have been difficult to carry around. 😢
I’m glad you don’t have that burden to bear anymore.
If there's someone that is very good at manipulation, it's John Dehlin. He talks about empathy, and yes empathy is important, but the way he uses it on his channel is extremely manipulative.
Example 1: He has David Archuletta's mother on his channel. She cries and says that people in the church ask her about "her son", not recognizing that she has two sons. He connects with her with empathy, agreeing that it's a church problem. With his educational background he knows it's a social group problem in general, not a church problem. Any parent of any famous person has seen this same thing happen. Just because her social group is her ward does not mean it's a church problem. But John uses his "empathy" to send his listeners the message "the church is the problem".
Example 2: He has a former bishop on his channel complaining that when his family was in need everyone in the ward prayed for his family, but nobody stepped up to help. John again manipulates this situation to make it seem like a church problem. In fact we are taught to act AND to pray, and John knows this, but the way he uses the situation he tells his viewers it's a church problem.
Example 3: He states that masturbation isn't a sin, that "bishops masturbate" and "stake presidents masturbate". He has no authority to make a statement what is sin and what isn't, and he manipulates the situation claiming church leaders are guilty of it. If they are, they are aware of the atonement and they seek professional help. If he saw them, he's beaching confidentiality. And of all the clients he has had that want to break that habit, he ONLY brings them up. The way he says it, he makes it sound like "all bishops and stake presidents do this, it's okay, go ahead and do it too". And again the context of the message is stating this is a church problem. In fact, it's a social problem.
I have compassion for him, I really do, but I also recognize, as a mental health professional, how he uses his professional background to manipulate every interview.
Excellent analysis
Korihor doesn't want to meet Alma this time around, huh? Nice
Are you equating Jacob to Alma? 🙄
@@WildPelivanno but dehlin is definitely an antichrist
@WildPelivan i think more equating Delin to Korihor
💯
@@af146983 "i think more equating Delin to Korihor"
Korihor was never a member of the church; Nehor was apostate. What is remembered is Alma's argument with Korihor and not so much is known about Nehor but it is the argument that is similar. Alma tied knots in Korihor's arguments. As for me, I am certainly more of an Alma than a Nehor or Korihor. I would love to be compared to Alma.
Dude Jacob is one of the most chill guys ever and Dehlin is going on about "HE LACKS EMPATHY!!11!! HE'S SO BIGOTED OMG!!1!"
You need to watch Jacob when he is on Other Shows....he craves acceptance and will say things the way he thinks it will gain him acceptance.
Interesting. The #1 thing I think about Jacob when watching is that he is SO intense. Unwavering. & that’s coming from someone who myself tends toward intense (partially contribute to my LDS upbringing). I see John intense at moments but no way not even close to the ballpark of Jacob’s constant unwavering intensity. & I’m ok w/intensity.
I’m just learning now, I have watched some of Steve. Is he neutral then on the John/Jacob spectrum of LDS beliefs? On the intensity scale my barometer would be Steven at the bottom (low intensity), John in the middle, & Jacob very top! He’s like staring you down taking no prisoners, sticking to his line of reasoning unwavering. Does he even breathe or look away from his singular focus? Sorry not trying to talk anything polarizing religious but just generally trying to see how it is that you see him as “chill”😂. He one of the last people I see as chill. Steve would fit that 100 x more IMO. Am I missing something?
@@krismurphy7711 Nonsense
@@angelalewis3645 I have seen the same thing as Kris from Jacob.
@angelalewis3645 it's true, even of you don't want to admit it.
"I don't think I'm going to feel safe meeting with you" 😂 He's talking like you made credible threats against him and his family hahaha
John’s statement is so heinous. “I’m not going to feel safe”. So no matter what Jacob has to say in response from a different viewpoint is now suddenly a “threat”. What a joke.
Show me evidence you're a different person than my labels or else I will continue to believe my labels. What a joke.
It’s the language of progressives. They deflect with accusations and one of those is labeling their opposition with the attribution of danger. Colleges rant the same line of “safe spaces” which are just places they can escape reality and live with their own confirmation bias. It is cowardly and accusatory like the Adversary is too.
My exmo brother literally said the same thing to my family to blame me for why he won’t come by for family gatherings. He cited wrestlings fights we had as kids as still traumatizing him in his 30’s.
People like Dehlin are just following the leftist script. They accuse you of doing precisely what they are doing to you. They call you a bigoted jerk and then when you say that you disagree with what they believe they scream and cry about your lack of empathy. All leftists work like this. Transgender activists spew hateful things against people who believe differently than them. Then if you say anything they don’t like - no matter how mild - they rage against you and say that they don’t feel safe. A total cop out and incredibly manipulative.
It’s time to come home John. Your Savior loves you dearly.
Jesus doesn’t exist at this point.
That's a very nice thought. But I promise you, he doesn't care.
Do you have any idea how much money he would give up if he resumed faithfulness? He literally could not afford it. Not the way he looks at life.
This reminds me of how exmormons complain that church officials and apologists won't engage and have conversations. I guess they have their reasons and so does John Dehlin.
Hilarious that he accuses your rants of being hurtful while he has quite literally ruined untold thousands of people and their families
By repeating Church History????
@@Ruby_Villain👍🏻👍🏻
@krismurphy7711 By related highly omitted "information" about Church History. Get it right Kris.
Still hoodwinked by the antichrist nonsense I see.
@@Ruby_Villain John Dehlin is hardly an "Anti-Christ"....he more like a Liberal Democrat Mormon.
@@Ruby_Villain Ruins? So the LDS Lifestyle is the ONLY TRUE LIFESTYLE ON THE PLANET?? Such utter arrogance.
Why you can't rationize wth a narcissist:
Rationalizing with a narcissist is often futile because their thought patterns and emotional needs are deeply ingrained and resistant to logical reasoning. Here are the key reasons why it’s difficult to rationalize with a narcissist:
1. Emotional Over Logic
Narcissists prioritize their feelings, needs, and perceptions over facts or logic.
If the discussion challenges their sense of superiority or control, they may dismiss rational points to protect their self-esteem.
2. Defense Mechanisms
They often use denial, projection, or gaslighting to avoid accountability.
Rather than admit fault, they might shift blame onto others or distort reality to fit their narrative.
3. Fear of Vulnerability
Rational discussions often require introspection and humility, which narcissists avoid at all costs.
Acknowledging someone else’s point might feel like a loss of control or an attack on their fragile self-esteem.
4. Need for Control
Narcissists have a deep need to dominate conversations and control outcomes.
They may dismiss logical arguments simply to maintain power in the interaction.
5. Lack of Empathy
Rationalizing often involves understanding and considering another person’s perspective.
Narcissists’ inability or unwillingness to empathize makes it hard for them to see the merit in someone else’s argument.
6. Fixation on Winning
Conversations with narcissists can become a "win-or-lose" scenario.
Their goal is often to "win" the argument, not to seek mutual understanding or resolution.
The fact that John Dehlin can’t stop talking and obsessing over the Church is all you need to know. I respect when someone decides that the Church isn’t for them. But it always makes me question how secure someone is in their decision to leave the LDS faith when they spend half their life trying to convince others that the Church isn’t true. At some level, I think these defectors aren’t totally sure that the church isn’t true. So, they obsess over looking for evidence that supports their decision to leave the church. These “nonbelievers” then try to evangelize their disbelief to anyone they can get to listen, subconsciously hoping that the more people they can lead away from the church, the more credence their decision to abandon their faith will have. If confronted about their obsession to lead people away from the Church, they will invariably say something about how they discovered the church wasn’t true and now they want to help people escape their oppressive beliefs. I have been a member of the church for 30 years and I have yet to see how the Church has hurt anyone. If you decide to leave the Church, I support that decision, but please stop looking pathetic by obsessing over something you supposedly don’t believe and move on with your life.
I would leave the Church alone but somehow it won’t leave me alone. I still get missionaries drop by about 1 a month. I have taken my name off the records. I have told them I have left the church and have removed my records but somehow they just keep coming by. If they weren’t 18-19 year olds I probably would do something more drastic but they are kids at the end of the day. Tell your church to stop sending your missionaries and Ward members by.
@@LomochenkoYou Are A Hypocrite I See You Still commenting on LDS channel and Ward radio then you said I can leave the church alone I don't think so 😂
The whole "you lack empathy" thing comes across as super disingenuous to me. It's poisoning the well, for starters. And it's also super prideful, as though John's views are correct bc he's a good person, and Jacob's views are wrong bc he's not as good of a person. And if Jacob would just develop some empathy for a change, he'd stop criticizing John as much and agree with him more.
Definitely an expert at deception and manipulation.
It makes the assumption and forces the assumption of evil intentions or psychopathy.
It’s the “do your parents know you’re gay?”
If you say no. You’re gay. If you say yes, you’re gay.
Do your parents know you are a psychopath without empathy?
Or is he intimidated by him
@@joshuasmith2689 That's the LDS church all over..... experts in deception and manipulation.
John Dehlin engages in many malicious and deceptive behaviors. He has successfully covered up the allegations against him from myriad women.
Moses 6:37 And it came to pass that Enoch went forth in the land, among the people, standing upon the hills and the high places, and cried with a loud voice, testifying against their works; and all men WERE OFFENDED because of him.
Yes Jacob you are soooooo offensive. Keep it up!
@@2inthebox858 you might as well be quoting from the lord of the rings or Harry Potter, book of Moses is fiction
@@dr33776 opinion no evidence to support your claim come on man do better
@@dr33776 Nonsense.
John is getting more and more angry. More so since how he got wrecked by the Paul brothers. Repent John!
he has a lot of pride!!!
Hedonistic Hubris .
What I was thinking.
John Dehlin appears bitter and resentful that the church will not change to accommodate his worldview, preferring instead to stir up contention. What a miserable man he is.
The church changes all the time.
@@jc72outdoorsit doesn't change by his request though 😂
@@nataly140 agreed. It is just slower changing with the times. Just like it always has. A little behind everyone else but they are changing. It is nothing like the church I grew up with in the 80s
People like to think that the church, under human leaders, is somehow trying to fit in with the world. This has never been the case. Not only has the church never fit in with the world, but its leaders have never made decisions without divine guidance.
@@jc72outdoors But I thought God was the same yesterday, today, and forever? And I thought his doctrines were never changing? Or is it his policies? Or is it former doctrines that are now considered policies? Or is it prophets speaking for God (D&C 1:38 “…whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.”) that is changing? Or is it past prophets that teach doctrine and is now disavowed by current prophets (Adam-God doctrine)? Or…is it temple ceremonies, polygamy, word of wisdom, blacks and the priesthood, the several first vision accounts, edits to the BoM, etc., etc?
I just get so confused with the Mormon never-changing God.
amen mate. Until he can heal from his feelings of hurt towards whoever harmed in. Then he will never change
Dude, I find your videos very thoughtful (no pun intended).
I think you state things Without malice and as truthfully as you can.
Have you seen any of his videos about Julie Hanks?
@@TheSheistyBluntI have seen his videos on Julie Hanks. He never calls her names. He strongly disagrees with her philosophy and is critical of her helping tens of thousands of Latter-day Saints justify abandoning their covenants. Criticizing her actions isn't rude when they're harmful. It's the wicked that take the truth to be hard.
At 5:20 he states, "Drinking is usually the first step someone takes as a right of passage when leaving the church. It's almost like an exmormon baptism." Do you consider this statement to be "thoughtful" and "without malice"?
@scottvance74 well, in my experience, people who leave the church usually start drinking...so yes. I know 3 personally who have.
@@TheSheistyBlunt no
Lack of conversation and the talk behind the curtain shows John’s true colors. He’s not really willing to have a true and real conversation, he only wants to be in his controlled world. Dangerous man. He’s a wolf.
A wolf in wolf's clothing, yet many remain unable to see him for who he is.
John Dehlin is afraid of Jacob Hanson!
Wait but one poster on here said Jacob Hanson is so “chill”😂how could you be afraid of him? I’m
Dying. All religious debates aside, Jacob comes off as intense & threatening. Like many LDS men in my life it feels comfortable to me. I agree with you that Jacob is someone to be scared of & not “chill” 💯.
@@SarahBoyden😂
@@SarahBoyden Do you want men to be betas?
@@SarahBoydenand you are scared of what exactly?
@@nataly140 he comes across very intense & threatening. No mercy- In my humble opinion :)
Thanks for posting this. I think you made more than a good effort, while also being yourself.
I'm not a Mormon and have no desire to be one. However this man calling himself a life coach, no matter his religious beliefs, is already a major red flag to me. Every life coach I have ever met has been a scam artist.
Every exmo on TH-cam or insta are all shilling “coaching” it’s sad. Pedal doubt and when life falls apart they offer coaching which is do drink go sleep around…. Really good life advice from people who “just escaped the Mormon cult” 😂😂
He has to be a "life coach" because the state of Utah wouldn't give him a license to be a therapist. That's the rumor.
He has an actual PhD in psychology.
@@user-mn447 ok that doesn't mean what he does is right. He's also not a licensed therapist. The state of Utah wont give him one.
Rumor does not equal fact. There are lots of reasons he may not have a license. He may have chosen to not get a license.
“We all have positive feelings about Jesus, but the atonement is actually insidious doctrine, because it’s all based on a deficit model of your brokenness, and you needing someone to make you clean and to make you whole.” - John Dehlin (Minute 21 Mark).
TO WHOM SHALL WE GO?
For behold, my brethren, it is given onto you to judge, that ye may no good from evil’, and the way to judge is as plain, that you may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
For behold, the spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto a way to judge; for every thing which invite us to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
But whatsoever thing persuaded men, to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then you may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil… And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that you do not judge wrongfully. - Moroni 7:15-18
By their fruits, you shall know them:
Someone endured a whole lot of yucky stuff to create this collage of unwholesomeness
th-cam.com/video/rXuAyJ1Qw1o/w-d-xo.html
John Daehlin, repent, repent and believe the gospel. Stop sliming the best thing on earth and cleverly and craftily, and persuasively using people whose faith, you broke to increase your ability to break the faith of more people! - David Alexander
@@ruexcited2WholeHearted
AMEN! 🙌🏻
Amen!
What video does that quote come from? I remember John Dehlin saying this, but I forget what video it was. After I heard him say this it substantiated what I've long believed about John -- he is an atheist.
@@firecloud77
John Dehlin made that statement about Jesus Christ and His Atonement during his interview with the Stick of Joseph Podcast brothers.
@@Whatiftheresmore1314 Thanks!
I get very similar responses from my friends and family who are ‘progressives’ when it comes to honestly discussing differences in religion or politics. It’s like they have a whispering desire, a sense of logic and rational, that they can have an honest conversation face to face with someone of an opposing view and get along. However, if given time they are flooded with doubts and dark thoughts and want to avoid us. If given the chance these conversations go well in person, but many times the doubts stop them from reaching that point.
It strikes me as the same as when someone investigates the church. They might enjoy the spirit of God as they speak with missionaries, visit a members home, read, pray, and go to church, but if too much time goes by or a lack or prayer or scripture study, then the spirit of God isn’t there enough and they get influenced to not speak with us anymore. A very common story unfortunately.
Please reupload the video that he asked you to take down!
Yes!
That is an excellent idea
The biggest factor when it came to joining the church, was all of the negativity I received for investigating it. When people come at you with anger and slandering words, you know you are doing the right thing. May God continue to bless you for standing with Him at all costs ☀️
Based
The Jehovah's Witnesses feel the same way. That reasoning is deeply flawed. If what you say is true then the Jehovah's witness faith would also be true.
Jehovah's Witnesses also feel persecuted. They genuinely have been and were put in concentration camps in the Second World War. This I guess proves they were right.
@@Themanyfacesofego More right than many though. Depends if you focus on what you have in common. LDS does, Jehovah's witness not so much.
That doesn't seem to be a reliable way to determine that what you're doing is right. They might just be concerned for you and don't know how to express it well. I'm sure many members of the Church felt the same way when their relatives decided to follow BY out west to live polygamy and leave Nauvoo and the original church that Joseph started. The same as you might feel if a family member of yours might choose to join the FLDS Church. The Church does teach probably more truth than most religions and has a great structure for families, but also seems to teach many falsehoods and things contrary to the teachings of Jesus. Thus why Jesus taught against joining any formal religions and just following simple truths like he taught on our own.
He doesn't want to engage with you because he knows your plan is to expose him.
Jacob, you’re perhaps the nicest person on the internet, no one is more quintessentially LDS than you online. (This is a compliment)
Disagree.
Yea… I’m a bit doubtful that anything good would come from meeting with him. Not after he demanded you change your opinion and conversation about Julie Hanks. Julie doesn’t need him to bully you into an apology… especially when one isn’t warranted.
If Julie wanted to discuss on air with you the criticisms leveled at her… she can ask for that discussion herself… she’s a big girl.
Jacob and John would be an extremely boring interview. Jacob’s content on his channel is silly.
Jacob he may not drink or smoke but according to women that worked with him, he had plenty of unwanted ted sexual advances, causing them to leave his organization. We have a friend that served his mission with Dehlin and he was a problem on his mission so this goes way back. People are trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but maybe that is being too generous.
DO YOU HAVE EVIDENCE, CORROBORATION, DOCUMENTATION FOR THIS DEFAMATORY COMMENT?????
@ no more than you ever have, just their experience.
@@krismurphy7711😂😂😂
yeah, have to be careful about being too christ like
Wow I feel like I’m in relief society again with all the gossip😂oh wait…maybe this is what happened behind closed does in the important priesthood meetings all along & I never knew 🤔
The truth is John is freaking scared out of his wits! He knows he doesn't have a logical leg to stand on and he will be mentally destroyed when he actually has to think instead of feel. John has been looking for a way out of this ever since you called his bluff!
Ummm. Faith, by definition, doesn't have a logical leg to stand on. Believing in things without evidence (which is irrational) is faith. I still see value in faith, but trying to pretend like there is evidence is faulty thinking.
@@terrillmel until faith becomes KNOWLEDGE - hence the evidences are provided to those with said faith. For example, Copernicus had to have some sort of faith in his work, else we'd have a very different cosmology, wouldn't we?
There is some conflation with the terminology and understanding of how faith works in every sphere wherein truth is being sought. The notion that faith is based on something that does not exist is the real fallacy here. Faith is something we all act upon every moment of our lives and a serious investigation into this concept will render some pretty remarkable understanding of our personal faith, once undertaken (seriously). Another example is the faith that astronomers have in black holes. No one has ever [actually] laid eyes on one, and apparently one wouldn't "see it" anyway, due to the immense light around it's event horizon. What's the work based on? Math. There's some math involved that has to be proved out, so billions of dollars are spent on the idea - that's "faith".
John knows that Jacob wouldn’t came face-to-face with John Dehlin with his bad apologetics. There are too many holes in the “restored gospel” or should I say “ongoing restoration”. Ongoing means that they are bringing you a new revelation pertaining to the kingdom of God, but instead you have them removing doctrines. That’s not ongoing restoration, that’s reduction to past doctrines. God was Adam, now he’s not. Blacked were cursed, now they aren’t. Polygamy was required to go to the high test level of the celestial kingdom, now it’s not doctoring according to pres Hinkley. Book of Abraham was written by his own hand and translated by Joseph smith, now we believe that it wasn’t written by Abraham at all and is not an actual translation but instead a Catalyst used to bring forth the book of Abraham. I could go on, but I think you get my point.
The way his eyes constantly dart as he rants is a HUGE red flag. He's quick to become unhinged when the topic isn't his comfy echo chamber.
Yep!
I suggest you watch him speak when he’s not ranting. His eyes dart quite often
I honestly do believe John Dehlin is trying to do good. I don't think he's intentionally and knowingly trying to deceive members of the church with stuff he knows isn't true. John has served as a place of empathy and compassion for many members of the church who have begun to deconstruct their faith. I was one of those members. My cousin is a good friend of John's and would often tell me how he had been helped immensely by John's podcast. When my faith, marriage, and mental health were in absolute shambles, I messaged John directly and told him my situation. He was not pushy, he didn't jump all over and capitalize on my faith concerns and doubts. He just listened. He offered support in how I needed it at the time. Over the next few years, I reconstructed my faith completely. But I'll tell you, that was born from the non-judgemental empathy, love, and compassion from both members of the church and also ex mormons like John. Eventually I began to see the foundation of my faith had more been created by the culture and people around me rather than the rock of our Redeemer - Jesus Christ. I investigated many churches and faiths. Over time I eventually found myself back in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Not because I had nowhere else to go and because I was pressured back in. I rejoined the faith because of the fruit that came from exercising faith in the restored gospel. I know early and current church leaders are imperfect. I know revelation isn't a perfect process. I know that "bishop roulette" is a real thing and each of us as members need to make sure we continually know and remind ourselves what the foundation and reason for our being members of this church is. If that is contingent on bishops, stake presidents, other members, or even the apostles never offending us or making honest human errors - we will struggle to stay. I know I did. FAITH is a power. Faith without knowing reaps benefits. I lost sight of that for a while. It's people like Jacob, Cardon, Kwaku, Dave, Don, etc sharing their experiences that helped me reconstruct.
If I look at my own experience, I see similarities of myself in John. I feel John still has too much that he hasn't processed from negative experiences with the church he's had. This consistently prevents him from opening himself to civil conversations. This was 100% what happened to me. You can see little hints of this in his interview with the Paul brothers, he's still hurting. I know he is. Like I was, he's respectful most of the time, until he isn't and can't be. It's because he's hijacked with grief, fear, hatred, and resentment to members and leaders of the church. And John, if you happen to read this, please know that you haven't strayed too far to be healed from the events of your past. You very well may have had good reason to leave the church when you did. What was done to you was not ok and like Jeremy Runnels, you were given very little empathy and compassion for the questions and concerns you had. I challenge you to be willing to risk everything to rediscover and reconstruct your faith in the restored gospel.
Thank you for your gentle but assertive approach to defending our faith. Oh the irony of this man’s accusations of your character!
Over the years I've noticed John's disposition has dropped quite a bit. Anger has gotten the best of him from kicking against the pricks.
Not "the pricks"....just "pricks."
@@krismurphy7711 Oh, hi Kris!! Bringing all that anger you have here to Jacob's channel too? Why?
I agree. I see the same exact thing.
LITERALLY!
Is it anger or is it seeing the church you once loved and loved becoming more hurtful and more harmful and the people following in the same manner and feel you can’t slow the pace but you can give a helping hand to anyone trying to escape the inferno . There is so much anger when you leave anger that is questioned over and over, I’ve had people tell me it’s because I left I say no it’s because I am now free but those I love are stuck in the tunnel vision I once saws life through and I now stand outside that tunnel where I am not seen, heard or understood and my new faith and relationship with Christ is not alright so I’m not seen as me imagine the anger in that.
You stand in a whole mother world alone screaming from the top of your lungs here I am this is me love me for who I am, all we see is shame, guilt, shunning, fake friendships that once were, members who judge us instead of loving us as Christ loves us because that love does not exist in the church because you are to busy aiming for perfection and earning Gods love than to just follow what He taught and be who He is
That so true you will know them by their fruits ❤
John Dehlin is simply driven by ego. Nothing else.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Joseph Smith...Brigham Young....others were not? At least John has not make any wacky claims to Angels with Flaming Swords telling him to marry and have sex with Young Girls and Married Women!!!!
He needed a PhD thesis, chose to look for angles instead of witnessing the miracles in front of him
Much like Jacob. We need both of them in this journey towards understanding. Jacob is a bit high-handed, John is still quite Mormony! ☮️
He’s not. Once you’re on the other side, it’s a scary new reality, and John works hard to be a safety net with those who have lost their faith.
This personal attack on another human is sick buddy.
Ego and Satan, yes.
Wow! This is so sad. My daughter was bullied my the kids at Church and she took her name off the records of the Church. I will keep John in my prayers. There is always hope!!
Growing up I had the same experience. I feel for your daughter. It's a tough experience. Weirdly all my bullies left the church and I stayed.
@IJN-33 I had a similar experience, there was a bully in my ward who was so rude every Sunday when I was a kid. He's left the church. I feel bad for him
"My daughter was bullied my the kids at Church and she took her name off the records of the Church"
My daughter was also bullied by the kids at church *but* has not removed her name; no need for that. As she is becoming a mother it may occur to her some benefits from church affiliation.
Thank GOD your daughter uses her brain! I feel her, I don't want any association with this CULT either!
@@boarderut "I don't want any association with this CULT either!"
Of course. But what you DO associate with you will simply not call it a cult.
Oh my gosh , you are amazingly kind and such a good human
Kind? God you guys are a backward bunch of narcissists that know so much of nothing really!
Kudos for holding firm and not giving into the emotional manipulation.
The truth is John is afraid of looking the fool. He knows he will not be able to play you once in person. Your meeting would be filmed and so he knows the world will see he hasn't got a leg to stand on. He has no foundation... only accusations... and you would be able to refute those for the world to witness. We love you Br. Hansen
Isnt it pretty much a guarantee that someone who strongly accuses another of lacking empathy is the one who lacks?? Can anyone imagine President Nelson criticizing another for lacking empathy?
Nope. But man you’re really skilled at gaslighting and DARVO buddy.
President Nelson might call someone "myopic." 😆
John Dehlin won't invite anybody on his podcast that he knows he cannot benchpress or make look like a fundamentalist.
lol I’m assuming youre referring to the Stick of Joseph bros..
Not at all reality.
@@latterdayskepticmaybe your in denial 😂
True.
@@latterdayskeptic why did you delete all your videos?
The stick of joseph made the co-host walk out. This time jacob will make the host and staff walk out
I won’t watch JD anymore even if SoJ is on! Are you serious that JD’s co-host walked out of the interview???
I seriously doubt that. The LDS Church is a lie!
lol he left at 4 hours and 13 minutes because it ran way over the time budget. You make it seem like he was run off by them, that is objectively not the case at all. He mentioned several times he had a time he had to leave by. He walked off amicably.
This is why I have a hard time trusting anyone on the internet. John, Jacob, you, everyone just stretching the truth.
@@TheSandyStoneeveryone stretches the truth online. Critics as well.
@@TheSandyStoneJingleheimerschmidt
Ask him about how much money he makes by fostering faith crises in people.
Fostering??? PLEASE. People find Dehlin and ALL the other content BECAUSE people START LOOKING.
@@krismurphy7711 and he provides the fodder
@@krismurphy7711😂😂😂😂😂
@@JD-pr1et And WHY do they start looking? Because of, THANK GOD, The Internet.
@krismurphy7711 So, finding antichrist deception while trying to find answers to questions. Got it.
I've been watching John for years, all the way back to the early days of MS, when he was, dare I say, somewhat tolerable. But eventually, I had to step away-for the sake of my own sanity. It’s unfortunate, but I have to admit, his behavior is nothing short of a masterclass in being problematic. For starters, his career seems to hinge on bulldozing over anyone else’s opinion, as if only his perspective has the divine right to exist. Back in the early MS days, he was actually capable of respect-imagine that! But over time, he’s transformed into an extremist, someone who only sees the world in stark black and white, and who has perfected the art of manipulation to rally people to his hollow cause.
It’s a truly tragic downfall. The worst part? Too many people have willingly jumped aboard his bandwagon to nowhere. Now, he’s the walking embodiment of scripture’s warning: the blind leading the blind. And sadly, the end of that road isn’t exactly a scenic view.
I think you're right. I too followed John in the early days. I started to see, though, how he would spin his interviews. It dawned on me that there had never been an episode (remember this is probably more than a decade ago) in which he did not use the word, polyandry. Then I saw how he tried to milk his church discipline for publicity, despite that his own website revealed his fundamental rejection of Christian faith.
This is just crazy to me. John is in so much pain and trauma, he cannot see the hypocrisy of his words and actions. 🤷🏼♀️ I hope he can find peace and healing.
There are many reasons why I pity John Dehlin, one of them being that he never mentally graduated high school, as we saw with his labeling and pettiness.
The problem with John Dehlin is because he was excommunicated from the church for a serious sin, as no one is excommunicated for minor ones, instead of accepting that repenting and getting back on track, he goes around saying about leaders and their sins, which is between them and God. As mine our between me and God no one else. If a leader sins badly, it's for him to put it right, I cannot justify me doing the same. Then he goes around trying to comfort those who have been disaffected because of stepping outside of the laws of God. Trying to get the church to accept them as they are rather than going through repentance putting it right with God and man.
In D&C 88
It says if you cannot abide the law of the Celestial kingdom, you cannot abide a Celestial glory.
We have to abide the law of whatever kingdom we end up in.
Same here if I step out of the law of the land I am put in prison. It's why we have a spirit prison because these rejected Christ laws and therefore cannot go into the paradise.
Moroni 10:32
32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
We have to deny ourselves of all ungodliness to dwell with God. Only God knows what that is, He reveals it to prophets and we take it or leave it. Those who deny themselves of ungodly actions, thoughts and words dwell with God those who want to live by their own laws live in one of the other kingdoms. No one is forced to live Celestial law.
John Dehlin won't do a show with you because you have truth on your side which will make him look an idiot and put an end to his podcast. What he's really saying is until you become more like me I can't have a conversation with you.
People who call you names do it because their logic cannot stand against truth no more than darkness can exist in the light.
It's all about the teddy bear Jesus rather than man up and repent, just accept them as they are, no growth or development never become anything special like a God.
When I joined the church it was blatantly obvious that lots of changes needed to be made no way was God going to accept me as I was. I glad He didn't as I have become so much more loving kind and empathetic. Respect women more I could go on and on I was so far away from Christ and far closer to the devil, not an ideal place to find yourself. John wears a hat that says thrive! If I was thriving in life I certainly wouldn't be doing podcasts bitching about the church the people or the laws they are living up to. You only do that because his life offers nothing else of interest so sad!
He was excommunicated for speaking out against church leaders which is something every member of the church should be willing to do when it is warranted. But since the church leaders refuse to accept criticism and must maintain control, they excommunicate dissidents when they get loud enough.
@@Hawkquill what serious sin do you believe he did by interviewing members and former members?
He documented the whole excommunication process and interviews. Have a look and decide what major sin was commited.
What utter delusional garbage..... The LDS church has a history of excommunicating those who shine a light on it's awkward history, the cover-ups, the continuously changing narrative, the dishonesty and fraud and some of the harmful practices. They have recently excommunicated Nemo the Mormon (Douglas Stilgo) for shining a light on the lies told by some of the church leaders. Instead of putting their own hose in order they punish those who speak out.
I've become quite familiar w/ John Dehlin's content over the years. He may have his share of flaws, but I don't see any sin he committed that is worth being excommunicated over. I believe his excommunication was on political grounds more than moral grounds.
I really hope you and John can find common ground and mutual respect.
Dehlin is a narcissist. that is what is going on with that guy. a hurt narcissist.
Yeah , for him his "religion" is all about himself , while "Mormon" Christianity is all about SERVICE and _OTHERS_ and personal Eternal Progression !
Nah, he is just pointing out the lies within the LDS church
@@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i if that's all it was, he would be more consistent. But he's built on a foundation of his own hubris and he's paralyzed with fear that it will fall
@@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i John has stretched the truth, misled many, and now has a cult following. It's what exactly he wanted all along.
@@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i really he is just so pointing out his own ignorance and misguided expectations of it. it’s a religion he doesn’t understand. combine with narcissism and we get Dehlin.
Thanks and God bless you. Thank you for explaining your thought process so well
It always cracks us up when people say that every person who leaves the church “becomes smokers, drinkers, druggies, and swingers”. Honey I think you better take a lonnnng hard look at SLOMW and ask yourself who the “smokers, drinkers, druggies, and swingers” are.
Not every person who is in the church does this (in secret) and not everyone who leaves the church chooses destruction. Geez Jacob!
"Not every person who is in the church does this (in secret) and not everyone who leaves the church chooses destruction."
I don't think the first part of that sentence is what you wanted to write. But it is true, I am sure, that " not everyone who leaves the church chooses" smoking, drinking and so forth.
But "not everyone" is a really low standard. It is possible for generalizations to be true as generalizations, despite the existence of counter-examples.
I actually think there's something to the "male body female brain" argument.
John Dehlin may look like a middle aged man, but don't be fooled: he's actually a 15 year old bipolar chick who's losing her sanity. I pray that John will find a resolution to his identity crisis.
Dr. Martel....where did you go to medical school?
@@krismurphy7711 University of DeezNuts
Thank you for all you do, Jacob- bless you and your family, we need more thoughtful, faithful people like you❤
John “Double standard” Dehlin lol
I'm sorry, but I don't see John as honest. But, maybe he is...kinda like a rabid dog is sincere.
That's it! He's sick and hurting and lashing out, doing much more harm than good. And he can't see it or understand it.
Doesn't think he's "going to feel safe"? This is a very specific usage of the word safe. Usually, its about your physical well being. In this case, John is saying that he won't feel emotionally comfortable. He's taking his own emotions that are a result of being challenged on his ideas and blaming others for it. This is why he says so many people who disagree him lack empathy.
I also feel uncomfortable when people challenge me because, like many people, I get embarrassed easily, worry what other people think, and am prone to negative emotions. But those emotions are separate issues to whether I'm right in a discussion or not.
Jacob Hansen is just a simple clout chaser
This is interesting. I don't necessarily see a distinction between being "nefarious" and somehow wanting to make the Church (and, more relevantly, Mormon culture) over into something that matches "progressive" (it's not, really) identitarianism. Because as you show here, Dehlin is not just a hypocrite but a person who is not able to defend his expressed viewpoints without turning the defense into a weird attack on the character of anyone who disagrees. "You're a bigot," he says. "You lack empathy," he says. "I don't feel safe," he says. (That last is the lamest of all.) Dehlin, Hanks, Reel, all those folks have decided that their pop culture morality trumps the laws, ordinances and covenants of the Gospel of Jesus Christ ... and yet they are unable to suggest why or how that might be true without engaging in the unhinged rants like the one you feature in this video.
If you think about it, that makes Dehlin the one lacking in empathy. He's unwilling to concede that you or other faithful members of the Church have sincere beliefs and that we can and do approach others with love. It leaves him raging, almost spitting, as we see him in that clip.
So ALL THE OTHER TIMES when Dehlin is calm....for hours at a time....that doesn't count? (Are you unexposed to Jacob and LDS Apologists when they are spitting out in minor rages???)
@ That’s funny. “Doesn’t count.” Like what you’re supposed to do is add up normal minutes and count them against nasty, name-calling, abusive minutes. Hilarious. And then blame “LDS Apologists” for being unreasonable and mean and stuff. Comedy gold, baby.
Sort of like the guy who abuses his wife. What about ALL THE OTHER TIMES when I was nice, he asks. :-)
@@leightonanderson Let the You Tube Channel Host who is without an outburst cast the first stone....????????
@ Look up the word, whataboutism. Gosh, you guys are so lame.
I get that Dehlin shows his ugly side. Yours too, that’s the problem. You don’t like it, that’s why you’re trying to defend him. Maybe get some empathy.
@@leightonanderson Empathy? Dehlin is the one who deserves empathy. Imagine being excommunicated for telling the truth. Christ's Church Assbackwards.
Learning about narcissism was such a game-changer for me. Understanding how people manipulate others should really be something everybody knows, much like everybody should know to stay away from dangerous predators. Sometimes, the best you can do is not engage and draw firm boundaries. I think John understands that very well. Sadly, I see narcissistic patterns of abusive manipulation all too often in the LDS community.
Remove the beam from your own eye first John.
Says a member of a church that is terrible to those who have left labeling them unbelievers, faithless, or apostates. But cool, go ahead and pick up that rock and throw it.
This is a very compassionate take on John Dehlin. He's a hurt child. He needs to recognize how childish, not child-like, he is acting.
Dehlin doesn’t need to change the Church it is being changed by the leadership.
WHY?
The Church doesn’t have leaders but corporate lackies.
The Stick of Joseph interview was very eye opening. I suddenly saw a man who struggles with scrupulosity and wrongly identified that pain with the church. He is trying to rescue people from that kind of pain, not realizing the power of Jesus Christ is bigger and more far reaching than he has ever kown. Come home John! Arms will open wide.
@@-tikla you do realize that literally millions of people who aren’t Mormon believe in the power of Jesus Christ right? Jesus isn’t exclusive to Mormons
@@dannyutah3859 absolutely! When I say I hope John comes home I mean home to Christ! Same team friend. Same team.
When you know you are only speaking truth, you have confidence on your side. If you're not confident that what you're saying is the truth, you will fear being challenged.
I love how you act like John Dehlin is the boss at the end of a video game. He has no bearing on the fact that the Lamanites and Jaredites never existed
Yep....the Burden of Proof is on TBMs. They need to START by explaining The 1832 First Version of the CLAIMED "First Vision"
Prove it
@@_Lachoneus Proven....via DNA...Archeology... Anachronisms... Frankly the burden is on you to back up the claims of Joseph Smith about "The Book of Mormon" and its content.....SINCE there is nothing settled to date. The best you can claim is that absolute proof does not exist to dismiss all of that completely. There is little room to PROVE IT ALL....but it exists.
@_Lachoneus the book doesn’t describe the history of the Americas at all. The people in the Americas came over from Eastern Asia and trace their ancestry back to there. They didn’t have livestock such as horses, goats, donkeys or animals like elephants. They had deer, dogs, jaguars, turkeys and marine life.
They didn’t have wheat but ate beans corn and squash. They didn’t use gold and silver coins for currency but use cacao beans, feathers, jade, and other forms of trade.
Their metallurgy was varied but they didn’t write on metal plates and their languages were not Hebrew or Egyptian in origin. They did not use iron or steel tools for agriculture during Book of Mormon times.
They did not have a Christian religion in any way including the writings of Deutero Isaiah or the New Testament
@kuriju88 we have much to learn about the story of the americas. Entire civilizations are buried under jungle growth. Just because some of those things you mentioned are unprecedented or undiscovered doesn't mean they didn't happen on a scale described in the bom. And time has proven much kinder to the bom than the critiques of it.
Much to the chagrin of critics, there are many aspects of the bom that point to ancient origins. I'm sure you're familiar. I'm unconvinced by JS's purported endless access to obscure books and so many "lucky guesses" for the best naturalistic explanation critics can cook up. Joseph's (or anyone else's) access to the Bible and alleged genius creativity just doesn't add up to the bom. In my world-view, the burden of proof is still on the critics...
Congratulations! If John Dehlin criticises you, you have made the top tier of good people and saints. But don't bother going on his show; it's like trying to argue with Lucifer himself! It's a total waste of time. By the way, Lucifer also knows everything is true,
Actually The Church knew a lot of what it had taught people was not completely true....and then about 10 years ago started to tell MORE of the truth.
@@krismurphy7711 Actually, not telling bad stories and tragedies isn't necessarily lying, when done with good intentions. There are no legitimate reasons to make public Smiths sins and shortcomings.
@@Charlie-xu4zh stick your head in the sand then
Charlie - Exactly!
@@Charlie-xu4zh LDS's own Articles of Faith, Be honest in your dealings with your fellow man. Deliberate omission in order to win favour is DISHONEST!!!!! But then again the LDS church has a history of hiding the truth.
I like and regularly listen to both you and John. It would be great if you could make the conversation happen.
We all have our journey. I think anyone whom leaves the church due to seeing say John had already been on that path. Hope they can make it back.
This is a classic narcissistic interaction. They can't accept that others have valid feelings that don't align with theirs. They manipulate and belittle you because of your feelings or beliefs. Thank you for explaining your side of the story, Jacob. Keep standing up for truth.
I wouldn’t go.
He’s just wants to make money off you and reenergize his minions.
If he wants to talk, let it be on your grounds and your terms.
While I can agree that going on the show may be a bad move, I don't see the point is calling his viewers "minions". It just doesn't strike me as a christian attitude or one that moves the conversation forward.
I agree with Alex.
Truthfully, I can't see how people don't see right through John's questions, as well as those of most of his co-hosts. My wife and I watched a recent episode and she exclaimed, "Objection, your honor, leading the witness." 🤣
Some of the videos I've seen of Dehlin's, such as his interview with the New Name Noah guy, persuade me to believe he is past feeling. I doubt much would be accomplished meeting with him.
Saludos desde Lima Perú, tienes razón Jacob, hace años cuando confrontaba mi fe, vi muchos vídeos de Dehlin y pensé que esa capaz era la mejor forma de vivir, siendo buena persona libre y sin la necesidad de la Iglesia y su dogma, y eso que Perú aún es en cierta medida conservador, pero ya se está sembrando bastante en los pensamientos de los jóvenes el progresismo tanto a hombres como mujeres, entonces creí en cierta manera que esa vida que Dehlin promovía era bastante atractivo para mí, al madurar y cuestionar ambas partes,, me di cuenta que era un serio error dejar la Iglesia porque ya estaba viendo esa polarización radical en el pensamiento, gracias Jacob por tu contenido, que Dios te bendiga.
Those who sell the Holy One of Israel for 20 pieces of silver and expose him to shame will not be forgiven in this life or in the life to come. All they deserve is a serious warning and a deaf ear, period.
Joseph Smith was the one charging SILVER for his look-in-his-hat LIES.
Summed up.
John Dehlin: "I don't feel safe if I'm not the one in control, so I don't feel safe on even footing with someone who disagrees with me."
I think he had the Paul brothers on because they advocate a position, but they don't post reaction videos or rebuttals. Personally, I also think there is another factor where he felt like he could control the conversation because they are younger and less experienced. Fundamentally, John does not "feel safe" with someone he doesn't feel like he can control. His emails are tests to see if he can control your behavior. You having empathy, the way he uses it, means agreeing with him. Or at least, not disagreeing with him.
Also, like a lot of people, I don't think he can tell the difference between throwing character accusations and judgements (like when he calls Jacob "heinous") and descriptions of fact (Jacob showing specific conversations). With people like that, since they cannot distinguish good faith and bad faith arguments, they can't be relied on for good faith conversations.
I've seen this a lot with certain relatives who have left the church. They get paranoid, even claiming that I disagree with them as a plot to make them look bad in front of other people--even in conversations where I've pointed out that we're disagreeing and we can change topics, and they are the one that pursued the conversation. At the heart of it, people who really drink the leftist cool-aid become fragile people who are afraid of someone disagreeing and need an affirmative chorus of group think to feel safe.
Also, I think a lot of the people leaving the church in the last 20 years are so are actually the most dogmatic people, jumping ship to woke culture because it is even more dogmatic than the LDS church. The individual I mentioned above was very dogmatic as a member of the church, and not just as dogmatic as a woke person outside the church. She has always views the world through a black-and-white lens. She once even commented, before her woke views hardened, that she noticed a lot of people who remain in the church around her are the ones that have a more nuanced view.
Huh? I think, I've seen, I don't think...that's probably where you should land.
Great video Jacob. Thank you for standing for the truth, and not backing down. John knows the truth, and I'm sure it hurts him whenever he faces it. This is why he might be avoiding you. His pride has him in a pickle because he won't humble himself and come back to church. We should pray for him.
I just don’t like the double standard, John criticizes and brings on guests who criticize and it’s good… but when Jacob does it it’s heinous and bigoted.
You edited the hell out of that clip you posted of John.
He seems like a very emotionally manipulative guy, especially his harping on “empathy”. No wonder why he’s popular with women almost out of the church. He’s projecting his hurt onto everyone that comes on his show.
I'm proud of you Jacob. I've enjoyed your information. I've actually prayed for John in hopes he would find peace with the Lord again. I feel he is hurting too. ❤️
Sir, I do subscribe your channel. Thanks. keep up the good work. I hope we always take care our personal mental health, by active in the Church, by praying regularly, studying our scriptures, serving our families and neighbors, and do positives activities with them.
Why did the Paul Brothers Dehlin Podcast last almost 6 hours? A narcissist might continue a conversation indefinitely if they feel they are losing control, cannot reconcile their perspective with others, or feel their ego is threatened. Here’s why this might happen:
1. Need to Maintain Control
A narcissist often needs to feel dominant in a conversation. If they sense they are losing an argument or their viewpoint isn’t prevailing, they may drag out the discussion, hoping to outlast or wear down the other person.
2. Avoidance of Accountability
They might resist concluding a conversation to avoid admitting fault or conceding a point. Keeping the discussion going allows them to evade resolution and maintain their sense of superiority.
3. Emotional Manipulation
Narcissists can use prolonged discussions to frustrate or exhaust others, potentially forcing the other person to give in or disengage. This tactic reinforces their control and protects their fragile self-esteem.
4. Refusal to Let Go
If a narcissist perceives the conversation as a challenge to their identity or beliefs, they may continue obsessively until they feel they’ve "won," regardless of the time or emotional toll on others.
5. Lack of Empathy
A narcissist’s inability to consider others’ emotional energy or time makes it easier for them to drag conversations to extremes without recognizing the negative impact.
Those who have no argument turn to insults
I don't see any sincere motivations from John Dehlin. I think he's delusional in his beliefs and he's certainly afraid of people he cannot bully.
That's a great way to put it.
Great video, thank you!
He demands you make a change in your life, but he spits on the church asking the same of LGBT individuals.
Disappointed this didn’t happen. You are much more like John Dehlin than you want to admit. You both agree that is Joseph Smith was a pervert, a pedophile, a lying sos, right? So what’s the point? Were you going to try to convince Dehlin that Joseph was still a prophet anyway? You and Dehlin have many similar beliefs.
When you change according to my satisfaction then I will feel safe enough and superior enough to engage with you and win. This is narcissism and manipulation. Not your fault. He is governed by his fear and will receive wages from that spirit.
I think Dehlin simply doesn't want an asshole TBM on his show????
@@krismurphy7711 careful your tolerance is showing.
True
Accurrate assessment of him.
Hmmmmmm... Trying to monetize off the members of your faith. I believe that is mentioned consistently in the Book of Mormon.
The Church itself is pulling the rug from under Jacob's feet. For example on two occaisions having Gay Men's Choirs performing at visitors' centers.
The Church itself is making small shifts to accomodate John Dehlin's world view...or at least ensure that people with "woke" views feel less uncomfortable if they attend.
Amazing how The Church has shifted from SIN to ACCEPTANCE.
@krismurphy7711 I don't think they have fully made the shift. It will be interesting to see where things go.
@@Themanyfacesofego They will make the full shift. Just wait. The already a completely shifted away from polygamy, blacks being denied the priesthood, the name Mormon, etc.
@@Lomochenko the church will NOT make a full shift! To do so would be apostasy. But to have a choir sing is simply accepting people. They are children of God too.
@@ThreeD.s You can see a pattern in other denominations:
First there is a dialogue with marginalized groups. Commitees are set up etc. Activities happen to bring people together. Language is softened. Then compromises start to happen.
For example in denominations of the Anglican religion, Churches cannot yet marry homosexuals, but are allowed to bless them in a church service (following the marriages which have happened elsewhere in registry offices etc.)
Members of the congregation are now actually free to be in same sex relationships; Priests can be too as long as these are platonic relationships. A male Priest therefore can be married to another man.
John Dehlin bit so hard on the "white male privilege is evil" meme, that he ended up destroying his faith, his family's faith, and the faith of thousands of others who have been deceived by his youtube channel. His life story is a very sad one, and should serve as an example of a path not to follow.