Should We Unhitch Sexual Morality From the Bible? Investigating Andy Stanley's LGBT Views
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Should We Unhitch Sexual Morality From the Bible? Investigating Andy Stanley's LGBT Views
40,000 congregants and perhaps millions of people around the world look to Andy Stanley for spiritual guidance, but should they? Years ago Andy Stanley was thrust into controversy when he encouraged his congregation to "unhitch from the Old Testament."
Most recently, the controversy has been stirred by viral social media posts that have threatened to expose Andy Stanley as a heretic. "Why?" you may ask. Well, the claim is that Andy Stanley has become an LGBTQI+-affirming pastor. It appears Andy Stanley is now encouraging his church to "unhitch" morality from the Bible altogether. Join us as Josh, Michael, and Michael investigate the claims about Andy Stanley and discuss what Christians should do when pastors become LGBT-affirming.
#remnantradio #theology #theologypodcast #theologydiscussion #biblepodcast #christianpodcast
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I read Stanley’s book “Irresistible” a couple years ago and found it so chock full of wrong teaching and bad logic, all pulling one away from biblical faithfulness, that I am not surprised at all to hear him saying these things now.
Who knows what harm he is yet to cause.
Thank you for making this video. It’s not about finding flaws. It’s about rightly responding to dangerous and false teaching.
Mike can you do a review on Stanley's book "Irresistible"? Because my pastor uses that book as a guide to run a church.
Agreed. Not a surprise, especially after watching his conversation with Jeff Durbin in the Unbelievable Podcast about "unhitching".
Great to see you here, Mike. And thanks for flagging this talk. 🙏🙏
Pastor Mike, I'm a subscriber of yours and find it interesting the close circle of you tube creators.
Here's my thought, please critique.
I feel the Andy Stanley and those who are alike have fallen prey to "toxic empathy." I'm not sure if I've heard this term elsewhere or coined it myself, but toxic empathy is when empathy to the pain of others leads them or others away from truth and into sin. (Perhaps you can refine the definition)
I get it, Andy probably has a multitude of people with same sex attraction, and he cares for them so much that his empathy has convinced him to rationalize.
Yeah, Wingman. You would be humorous if you weren't as dangerous to the body as you fear other "teachers" (theologians, for what else is a teacher?) to be.
Stick to the basics. Read your C. S. Lewis for crying out loud. How many times have I listened to you slog through stuff he said better, more clearly, and certainly in fewer words.
All your commenters are yes men, or worse "women always learning." Go Mike! cheerleaders. There are others, whose stock is up, while poor Pentecost is in real bear territory, (Bye Bye Benny), such as brother Minor (major on them!), a truer Roundhead than you who at least gives lip service to "continuationism" like your mentor, like it or not he is, Chuck Line by Line Smith.
A God-please cannot be a man pleaser.
Teach Pauline doctrine, which was given to him by special revelation, and is not strictly speaking found anywhere in the Judaic text.
For example, how the law, connected to those "weak and beggarly elements" of the universe was "administered" (governed and promulgated) by angels!
Three witnesses attest, in good legal fashion:
1. Stephen, martyr number one
2. Paul, rabbi of the new covenant
3. The author of Hebrews, who knows some things:
a. Jesus is better than the "angels"
b. His covenant is better than the load no forefather could bear
c. That soul and spirit are different! and made separate by that thing you "Sola Scriptura" Pharisees talk about, but don't understand: "the word of God"
Many things you do well, and better than anyone else, which is why I stab you:
"Faithful are the wounds of a friend."
Powerful points made about the struggle between old/new self.
Good job, brothers for standing on the firm foundation of Scripture and not deviating to comfort the flesh. So refreshing.
Why does it matter how Andy "got there"? We can all have complicated life of passions, but as you say, we dont have to act on them.
First-time viewer to your channel. So some "mega pastor," preaching "darkness," is "the light." I just love that Jesus told us to watch for wolves in sheep's clothing. Thank you for making this video and exposing a wolf!
it's a false pastor that is president of a major theological seminary, he didn't started this way, he has been slowly warping his teachings since 2010 after he watched some atheist on youtube bash the scripture and that made him abandon his confidence in the scripture
I fight my flesh every day regarding sin I'm born with, why should members of this community get a pass!!
Well done, guys!
How about the church “unhitching” this heretic?!
I have a cousin who is a lesbian. I loveher but I don’t have a relationship with her. I can’t condone what she’s doing. I pray for her and will always be here for her- but I feel if I associate with her- then I’m affirming her lifestyle. It breaks my heart, but what else can I do? ❤️✝️🙏
I think it depends on the situation, but if she doesn’t claim to be a Christian then it’s not affirming her lifestyle to talk to her. 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 talks about it. I also think that family is a different situation to general friendships or church fellowship. Maybe that’s helpful.
I HAVE GONE TO ANDY'S CHURCH FOR 23 YEARS AND HE IS FANTASTIC!!! YOU GUYS TAKE EVERYTHING OUT OF CONTEXT!! PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR JESUS BUT ARE TURNED OFF BY THE OLD TESTAMENT AND ARE ASKED TO UNHITCH FROM THE OLD TO FIND JESUS!! FOR A NEW BELIEVER THEY CAN GET BE HARD, IT HAPPENED TO ME!!!! I FOUND JESUS FIRST THEN LEARNED THE OLD!!! YOU MUST WANT TO TRY AND IMPRESS YOUR FRIENDS THAT YOU ARE CATCHING ONE OF THE MAIN PREACHERS IN AMERICA ON SOMETHING BUT YOU ARE JUST MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF!!!
After hearing Mr. Stanley say these things, it sounds like a man who is not a Christian. Is the Holy Spirit in you if you are saying this to an audience. There is no fear of God in that man, He is deceiving many and discrediting good pastors.
I think you guys are fatalistic, but one criticism I have of your show format is this. A. You introduce a topic. B. It often takes you 30 minutes to actually get to the the real EXAMPLES you wanting to critique. I see this pattern again and again in your shows. I suggest A. Introduce your topic B. Give examples of what your are examining C. Then offer your criticisms, support, insights. It is very frustrating as a listener when you get this backwards….which you do all the time….as you carried away by your own thoughts before you have even clearly defined what you against.
I was a lesbian and was still married to my ex when I walked into my church. I was struggling with being a Christian and being gay and wanted both things. Until one night in my room crying out to God about it and he convinced me of my sin, I cried and cried and begged for forgiveness and asked Him to change me. I am now not attracted to women. Saying this I know and have watched testimonies of people still having the attraction to the same sex but are celibate due to their love for Jesus. The same as if you lied before giving your life to Jesus you continue to give the sin to God and repent to walk out your salvation (if you are still lying) for example, we are not all changed of all the past at the moment of conversion. Transformation can take a long time and we aren't perfect till we are with the Lord!
Hope this makes sense 🙏🏼
So glad that you've decided that Jesus is worth surrendering your all for. He is so wonderful and so worth of our complete devotion. He will continue to strengthen you, as you keep on putting Him first.
What do you say to the person who has repented, surrendered to Jesus, even married the opposite sex and is still attracted to same sex. Do we condem and ostricise them?? Or do we show love and mercy and accept them as "who God made them to be". If the church can't show grace, we are no better than the Pharasees.
@wisedyes yeah that's what I was saying, sometimes the new man is still attracted to the same sex. They aren't in sin if they don't follow through with their temptation. Absolutely show them love and mercy and support them in every way.
@@wisedyes
God never made them to be any more than He made us with any other sin. Homosexuality is from the fall.
@@gemmabramley3748 So it's ok to be same sex attracted. Just deny your feelings. Sounds like hell. How about do it in a comitted relationship??
"There is a massive difference between loving people and affirming sin. None of us is without sin. But we can't celebrate it." A..M..E..N.
Amen. Jesus said go and sin no more.
Were the... relationships... in Deuteronomy 21:11, and Exodus 21, also sinful, then?
And fully, consensual?
Amen
Timestamp?
@@TheShiningEnergy 20:55
God sets the standard for morality/righteousness, not the passions of our flesh which have zero eternal value
Great content. I've had same-sex attraction challenges but follow the word of God rather than my own feelings. So good to hear the truth. I've recently left the Church of England as it appears they are heading to bless same sex relationships..
Keep pressing on brother. When you see Jesus, He will say “well done my good and faithful servant.”
That is awesome Martin! So refreshing in these times! You are a model of God’s power and intent! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👍🏼✝️
I knew there were Christians out there like you! Thanks for sharing your perspective. A person may not be able to control his attractions, but he can always choose to follow God. Not easy, but it’s what all believers are called to do. Praying that you find a church home that upholds the Word of God and welcomes you like family. 🙏🏽
Brother! Praying for continued strength!
Thanks 👍
Thanks for this, you guys. Beautifully articulated.
Thanks Alisa!
Thank you!
Nice work, How about also calling out the vast amount of Heretical apostasy on TH-cam? I’d help with that, there’s too much, and its grievous.
The video of AS advocating divorce of a heterosexual marriage to affirm the homosexual relationship is horrifying.
Absolutely heart breaking …. Gut wrenching. He baptized me in his dad’s church.
and why would you want a person to live in denial and unhappy relationship that would cause them misery why you want that person to live in hell with a person they dont love nor are attracted to
As someone with a disability (multiple sclerosis), I reject the idea that I must be defined by it. I reject that I can do nothing about what it takes away from my life - or that I must just give in when my illness causes me to do things against the Word of God (sloth, anger, envy)… I could give in. I could give up. And the world would forgive me for it. Actually the world expects me to do just that. But I would know, in my heart, I COULD do more. I would know in my heart that I was falling short of what I could do with God. And God would know too. So even if homosexual inclination is a disability - giving in to it, letting it define you, acting on where it causes you to be inclined to fall short of the moral law - THAT is a choice. EVEN if choosing the alternative is harder that giving in - it’s still a choice to give in.
Preach
I’m praying for you today. Praying you have a good day today.
Right!
May we agree in prayer right now for your continued protection, improvement of symptoms and victory over the world (and "the weak and beggarly elements" thereof)? And also for your family, that all would be saved, filled with the Spirit, empowered to serve in peace with God and fellowship one with another.
May revelation, peace, mercy, healing, success in ministry and good fruits in the graces of the Spirit and the power of the Gospel abound to you and your loved ones now and for the future, according to this promise of the holy scripture:
"Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your house."
Well said! We ALL GIVE UP and sacrifice for Jesus. Every one of us.
I was at Michael Miller's conference in Cincinnati last weekend and please tell him that God is healing my hands and tinnitus issues. I wasn't even thinking about either of those things but our loving and merciful and caring Heavenly Father remembered my prayers! Hallelujah Don't stop believing or praying guys!
That is incredible!!! Thank you for letting me know! Please go let the pastors know what happened to you!
I was saved, listening to an Andy Stanley sermon when he was an associate pastor at first Baptist. He baptized me. My heart is breaking.
I hurt with you.
Romans 12:15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus is the Christ, and this is pleasing to God.
I was saved listening to him on the radio. He was such an amazingly good pastor. I was at church every time the door was open. It was an amazing 3 years as a new Christian. I pray that God will let me know how to pray for him and maybe call or email him. He is lost. I have been watching this from afar for 3 years. I moved 3 years after I got saved and have lived in another state. Lord, what does his wife think…his kids…his dad…
I'm so sorry. Seeing people we trust walk in false teaching is hard. Praying that God will comfort you
@@elijahmcgrath5918 I am tempted to call or email and explain my fears as a sister in the Lord and remind him how God used him in my life.
@@elijahmcgrath5918 was he even a Christian then? Or just Charles Stanley’s son?
I haven’t listened to the whole episode yet but I cant imagine what his dad Charles is thinking…he’s been a lifelong devout Christian and I just can’t imagine that he isn’t totally heartbroken over this. Praying for Andy’s repentance and salvation.
This is rough, man. I hate discernment ministry stuff, but this has to be done. This can not go unchallenged.
People need discernment ministry because most don’t read God’s Word and they fall for false teachings.
Little penguins with guns. So cute. Someone has to do it.
“Andy Stanley doesn’t believe that the blood of Jesus was effective.”
Nail on the head.
Biblically speaking, technically if a man divorces his wife without cause he is still committing adultery if he gets into a relationship even after an official divorce. Obviously being in a same sex relationship is sin, but even Stanley's understanding of divorce and adultery is pretty skewed. I guess considering the relationship his parents had, and his dad continuing in ministry even when he probably should have stepped away at least for a time, it's not that surprising that he's confused on these things.
2 Tim 4:3 states: For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. .... This is one of the signs of the end times. How very sad. Thank you for the clarity of this segment.
Maybe Andy's gay?? He wants to "unhinged" from traditional marriage.
Excellent content, guys! As a former "music contractor" for North Point Ministries, I've seen this coming for a LONG time. :( Happily, the Lord plucked my wife and me out of that (church growth) movement and that "church". We were introduced to the doctrines of grace, repented of our low view of God and Scripture and have never looked back. Pray for Andy and the thousands who are deceived by his false teaching.
(2Peter 3:2) forbids unhitching the old testament from the new. We are to be mindful of the words spoken before by the holy prophets and the apostles
Remnant radio - I know it’s hard and I know it breaks your hearts but you will stand before God and HE will commend you for exposing this. I commend you
This is a grief! I'm from France this issue is raging! Here Lutheran , calvinists and Free evangelic church are celebrating LG "union" and they ordained "a L couple" as Pastors in Montpellier. After a synode the Belgium free evangelical churches issued a statement to break free from the decision that : the Unified reformed church (calvinists, lutherans and free evangelical churches) position to affirm LGBTQ etc. Was not sustainable. A minorité of pastors from Lutherans churches founded the " protestant and attestant movement " i.e: we're protestant against the Roman Catholic and attesting the truth of the scriptures and thus not affirming and some condemning. This has to stop! We caannot be a minority to attest that the holy scriptures are true! It's crazy! As a french when I heard the Marcionism in Andy's mouth and his discussion with Jeff Durbin and with Dr James White...I think we all sensed this was coming...It's such a chagrine...
Praying for you! We are all in a dire place. God bless you.
If we are suppose to unhitch then why does Jesus say “““Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.”
Matthew 5:17… then continue reading through verse 20
Excellent exposition guys!👍🏼 based on Andy Stanley’s logic, you’d have to apply this to adulterers, fornicators, pedaphiles, etc…😢
You do. And they are saved by the blood too. It is profoundly offensive, this cross of Christ.
@@duncescotus2342 they are saved by the blood, amen…however, like Jesus told the adulteress woman, “I don’t condemn you either, go and sin no more”…
@@gilbertocolon2079 Yeah, do that, bro.
@@gilbertocolon2079 this text you’re referring to was later added to the Bible by scribes based on a majority consensus from those in the study of New Testament textual criticism.
But that is not to say that isn’t a good representation of who God is and what He would do in a situation such as described in that text.
With that said, there are bibles today that don’t mention homosexuality as an explicit over-encompassing sexual immorality.
Can't begin to imagine what his father, Charles Stanley, feels. Moreover, how it hurts the heart of Father God, Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit.
My heart breaks for Charles too. 💔
I have had 4 (at one time very close) friends now who have walked away from their marriages for a same sex relationship. Friends who were in my small group, friends I fellowshipped and ministered with at one time. It’s very heartbreaking to watch this becoming more and more accepted.
May I ask if they still believe they are under grace?
Do they believed they are already saved because of the Cross?
I hope you can give a fair answer as I have a great interest in the meaning of grace.
@@simonskinner1450 well, none of them claim to be believers now. But, from what I was able to tell, none chose this path believing they were under grace so it was ok. The progression I witnessed is that they veer off into progressive Christian teachings leading them to believe that homosexuality isn’t sinful at all, eventuality choosing that lifestyle telling themselves God is cool with it, but yeah - none of them claim any kind of Christian faith at this point.
@@annadillard7145 Believing in God is not cool, but they are 'gaslighted' into Evoatheism, and if they did believe they are told they are spread saved. They are not.
I do have a Ytube video series called 'Myths in so-called Christianity' and I expose false beliefs from false teaching.
It is however sad if they were good people apart from their sins you nentioned, but they will be judged.
@@annadillard7145 Thanks for sharing of your heart-wrenching stories of your friends. These now countless anecdotes lead me to believe that there is a powerful demonic spirit at work in convincing people to pursue “unnatural” relationships at rates unseen historically since the falling of the Greek and Roman empires, where paganism inspired all manner of sexual sin. It is a renewal of Sodom and Gomorrah.
It is so brutal to witness the cultural shaping of my nieces and nephews in the combo of full embrace of everything LGTBQ+ and the parallel rejection of everything Christian and biblical. It seems that holding to both (the bible and sexual perversion) ends of being a transitory passing through station as LGBTQ+ convictions eventually land people into hardened atheism.
Progressive affirming Churches appear to be built on hillsides of slippery slopes as temporary camping out locations - aiding the eventual fall down the cliff.
It is sick and clearly reprobate. The book of Romans is VERY clear on this. We can't sugar coat it or explain it away. It isn't definition a "falling away" and perverse behavior.
Growing up, getting told “no, don’t do that,” when it comes to sexuality didn’t work for me. Unfortunately, it wasn’t until very recently that I realized how good God’s order of marriage, marital priorities, and order of the household is. I think it was Michael Rowntree who explained marriage and sexuality differently than what I grew up with. Anyway, I recommend it for anyone. It wouldve saved a lot of stress, I could’ve used my time toward self-improvement or development, and other more noble and profitable things. I love God’s order of marriage and the household, I feel very belonged, loved, and protected as a wife.
Part of this problem is that among Christians there is a juvenile idea about sex generally. People think they are going to find a “savior” in a heterosexual partner, That God kind of “owes us” fulfillment of sexual desires we may have. This is something pathetically very very common among many Christians.
If you don’t want to teach children, don’t have children.
Thank you guys for standing firm on this issue and approaching it quickly. God bless your ministry.
This whole topic puts fear in my heart. I’m a lover of truth and have a deep compassion for those who struggle to overcome sinful behaviours. Affirming homosexuality waters down the Truth. The truth being Jesus and His good news that sets us free! I believe the message and power of the gospel is the way to overcome sin. The struggle with homosexuality gives us insight to the power of sin in all our lives and how original sin has been past down. When we view sin as just a choice to stop a bad behaviour we can miss the gospel. As Paul said, all I want to know is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Justification starts the change and sanctification Continues the process till the day of Jesus Christ. Please Don’t rob the broken of the hope we have in Christ. 😢Minister the gospel in power and love!
The whole, "every time someone watches CP, the victim is re-victimized" garbage is laughably ridiculous. If this is true, then that means every time someone watches a video of a car crash, a murder, being bitten by a shark, etc., the victim is re-victimized. The logic is sorely lacking here, but that's par for the course when it comes to feminist nonsense. Unfortunately, even though this is a ridiculous notion, the mind can make it real. I'm gonna need to see some research showing that random people finding CP that had already been made has any effect on the rates of distribution or I call bullshit.
If you are attracted to females 11 and over (most likely 11-14), you are not a pedophile. That makes you a hebephile. Although most men are preferential teleiophiles (17ish+), it is normal and widespread for men to find females in this age range sexually attractive as well, although good luck getting anyone to admit that they think middle schoolers are kind of hot in today's world. Some studies show that possibly up to 20% of men have a hebephiIic preference. Our species was selected to evolve in this way, which explains why this relationship dynamic has never been considered an issue anywhere in the world for all of human history until like the end of the 1800's when the AoC was raised to an unnaturaIIy high age amidst a panic-ridden populace in the throes of mass hysteria over a largely fictitious work of yellow journalism by W. T. Stead "exposing" an underground child prostitution ring right under everyone's noses in Victorian England. At least we have the consolation prize of knowing the guy who wrote that garbage went down with the Titanic. America suffered a similar panic over prostitution, but the raising of the AoC here was to prevent newly-freed black men from having sex with white chicks and tainting the purity of the white race. It was never raised because people saw hebephilic relationships immoral or "predatory" (it was actually the norm at the time). The age of consent had always either been 12 or lower (it was 10 at the time, actuaIIy) in every society through all time. Under any other circumstance, no one in their right mind would have ever agreed to this blatant violation of personal freedom.
Being raped as a child has nothing to do with pedophilia, and most rapes are not even committed by pedophiles.
Up untiI the late 70's, therapists recommended CP as an effective outlet, although it wouldn't matter very Iong because the sexual liberation movement was full steam ahead. All the research was showing kids were sexual beings and willing relationships were perfectly harmless. There were many outspoken activists and Iarge activist organizations pushing for abolition of the AoC. The prevaiIing attitude of the day was that sex is a heaIthy and necessary part of growing up and everyone has the human right to erotic pleasure -- sex-positivity. They very nearly succeeded until a fringe group of radicaI sex-negative feminists started spewing out a whole bunch of baseless, unempirical, and unsupported nonsense about power dynamics and tried to co-opt the concept of informed consent, a medical term, bastardized it, and tried to apply it to sexual consent; as if having an orgasm is such an extreme life-risking endeavor akin to triple-bypass heart surgery. They also co-opted feminist rape rhetoric and applied the same terminology to wiIIing intergenerational relationships, calling them invariably abusive, manipulative, and harmfuI without justification. No one paid any attention to those prudish sex-hating Iunatics until very wealthy and influential far-right religious "my child is my property" conservatives realized that they had a common interest. AII the sudden these feminists with their not only wacky, but harmful beliefs were given a platform, dissenting opinions were suppressed, and heaps of funding magically became available for anyone willing to produce "research" that contradicted all past research and supported this new abuse/victim narrative. LittIe did they know they struck a gold mine, and once the reformists caught wind of how much money there was to be made by switching sides, many of them jumped ship to follow the money. What can I say? We ARE Americans, after all.
I gotta say, aIthough this has led to countless lives being needlessIy destroyed, it was a brilliant strategic move that caught everybody off-guard. The seemingIy unstoppable juggernaut of sexual freedom was stopped dead in its tracks basically overnight. The actual reason why everyone hates "pedophiles" and that kids are harmed by such relationships today has nothing to do with the innate rightness or wrongness of it. The sad truth is that the CSA victim industry is extremely profitabIe and has now become institutionalized; it's essentially a religion these days. Many people's careers now revolve around this narrative and have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. They've even started pushing for the censorship of people who are catching on and speaking out against this toxic ideology. That is definitely not a tactic a true believer would ever feel the need to employ. But, it is also a sign that they feeI threatened and fear losing their grip on power.
Also, people often assert vuInerability and innocence. But being preferentiaIIy attracted to femaIes at peak reproductive value (11-14) is not a disorder and impIies none of those things any more than being preferentially attracted to ones at peak fertility (late teens/early 20's) does.
The "having to be with someone your own age" nonsense is VERY new in human history and is only seriousIy predominant in America, the country with the most deviant sexual norms in human history. Also the country with the 2nd (only to Ukraine, who's currently being invaded by Russia) highest rate of depression in the worId and the highest rates of STDs and unwanted pregnancy in the Western world. No one can help who they feeI attracted to; that spark, that butterfIies-in-your-tummy feeIing, who they feel happiest around.
I'm not a fan of demonizing peopIe because of arbitrary social norms. As I said, the Age of Consent in Mexico is 12, but since they're younger and have less experience, if they want to be with someone 18+, they can bring charges on the older party if they feel used/taken advantage of. They know that willing reIationships aren't harmful and people deserve freedom in their personal lives.
Ready for this conversation. What Andy Stanley said definitely came as a dissapointment.
Ask God about it
Hey troy! Rowntree has been telling me that you have had some helpful critiques of our Shean bowlz video. You should shoot me an email Id love to connect. Josh@theRemnantRadio.com
Beyond unhitching the Old Testament and sexual morality, Andy Stanley is ultimately unhitching God and replacing God with Andy Stanley.
More motivational speakers sprinkling heresy in leading people off the cliff
Thank you for this. Please pray for the Church of England in the UK, who are debating whether same-sex marriages can be blessed in church. So worrying and concerning.
Really? Is that something happening right now?
@@tpw7250 Absolutely yes. Europe overall is falling into apostate Christianity. It’s so bad that some biblically sound American churches have sent missionaries over to preach to the increasingly secularized culture and help remaining believers create faithful churches.
This is a grief! I'm from France this issue is raging! Here Lutheran , calvinists and Free evangelic church are celebrating LG "union" and they ordained "a L couple" as Pastors in Montpellier. After a synode the Belgium free evangelical churches issued a statement to break free from the decision that : the Unified reformed church (calvinists, lutherans and free evangelical churches) position to affirm LGBTQ etc. Was not sustainable. A minorité of pastors from Lutherans churches founded the " protestant and attestant movement " i.e: we're protestant against the Roman Catholic and attesting the truth of the scriptures and thus not affirming and some condemning. This has to stop! We caannot be a minority to attest that the holy scriptures are true! It's crazy!
@@Window4503 see my comment above about what went on in France !
@ Pamela Womack you should you and the christians against, get involved in the synodal process. I believe the Church of England works that way! You should begin to create a lobbying group to have impact on the process + intercession
Unfortunately, publishers only care about the bottom line which is the dollar. His books sell so that is what the publisher cares about. I am in complete agreement. We have to keep speaking truth. We are in the last days.....for real, for real last days. Apostasy is all around us. Keep up the great work guys!! 👏🏼👏🏼✝️😊
In reading Matthew Vines and Justin Lee, part of their argument is simply to create doubt! If anything sounds from the pit is this. "Did God really say?"
You compared homosexuality to theft! Forgets Andy Stanley compared them to DISABLED! This was sooooo good. Of someone tells me they were “born this way”, my response is “me too! I too was born with a sin nature…. Hence the need for all to repent and be born again, trusting Jesus to renew my mind” Thank y’all for doing this!
Truth is hate to those who hate truth. yay Jesus. *_"If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first." -John 15:18_*
Very good. I am appalled. I never would have thought the son of Charles Stanley would do this.
Andy is wrong & falsely teaching and leading many people away from the true biblical teaching. He's nothing like his father Charles Stanley, and that's sad because his dad taught the word of God the right way and you would think his son would do the same. Some times I think Andy is living a secret life. Like he could go either way if you know what I mean. Because he's always trying to to fight for homosexuality. Homosexuality it's just plain wrong and disgusting. If GOD says its a SIN then its a SIN. There ain't no in-betweens GOD made MAN to be with WOMAN & Woman to be with Man be fruitful and multiply.
It is better to trust in the LORD Than to put confidence in man.
Psalm 118:8 KJV
JESUS is The WAY & The ONLY WAY
God sets the standards for what a marriage is, and also sex in the song of Solomon. To remove God from any of that is to remove Him from your life. Period. No exceptions. This is very simple. You are either for Him or against Him. It's as simple as that
Check out the story of Rosaria Butterfield. She has an amazing testimony of unbelief to belief.
As for the issue of whether same-sex attraction is genetically determined, there is really no controversy. It is not. We know that there are other factors in this distortion of sexual desire because in studies of identical twins when one sibling is homosexual the other is also in less than 100% of the cases. The larger the studies, the fewer the brothers or sisters are homosexual if the other is. If homosexuality were genetically determined, then the figure of both being homosexual would be 100%.
A big factor in whether someone later becomes a homosexual is molestation. Around 40% of all homosexuals were introduced to sex through being molested as children or adolescents.
As for the culture, our traditional culture dating back to ancient times is Christian and well-developed morally while not perfect in practice (since we are all fallen). The problem is not our culture. Rather, the problem is the counter-culture of the New Left that came to the forefront in the late 1960's and has taken over colleges since the late 1980's. We need to reaffirm our traditional culture and our common sense that finds homosexuality to be disgusting and naturally revolting. That gut level emotional response protects individuals, families, and the society at large.
Ive always listened to Andy Stanleys father ..Charles Stanley ..A GODLY MAN ..A LAWFUL MAN . I KNOW HE MUST BE JUST AS GRIEVED AS WE ALL ARE ABOUT HIS SON Andy... pray for his soul. GOD BLESS AND THANK YOU GUYS.✝️🙏❤
Charles Stanley is such a good and Godly man, I really wonder how he feels about this error. 😔
@@TheWayWalker I imagine he is devastated. I loved being part of their church when I was a baby Christian.. such a great place to start. I had to move away due to family.
There are those in the church calling Charles Stanley a heretic. Sure glad we don't burn heretics at the stake anymore. ""If MY people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, pray and seek my face and turn from THEIR WICKED WAYS, then I will hear from heaven, and will heal their land."
Oh tell me about it. Charle Stanley’s work has added to my faith growth. God used this man to train my friend and I in our walk of faith. We are even planning to visit his church in September after a conference we are attending through G3. I was texting my friend today about this because I know Charles Stanley is probably broken to see his son on the headlines for things that are so heretical 🤦🏾♀️😞 this is so heartbreaking 💔
How does Charles Stanley feel about Andy Stanley?
“I felt like this was a huge battle, and if Andy had been in a huge battle … you'd have to crawl over me to get to him,” Charles Stanley, now 80, says.” I would have stood by him, no matter what. I didn't feel like he did that.” There's no father-son preaching duo quite like the Stanleys.
Who was still taking this guy seriously after his unhitching from OT statements?
Two things: Jesus loves you just the way you are. And Jesus loves you too much to leave you stay the way you are.
We're ALL in process. But we have to admit that we need to be transformed (that is the very essence of what it means to be "poor in spirit" (Matthew 5:3)). To say, "I'm fine; nothing needs to change," is both arrogant and deadly.
Thanks guys. Tough conversation but vitally important subject. Our allegiance is first to Jesus and His holy word, the scriptures.
I was brought up in a “Christian“ group when I first came to Christ that definitely was influenced by Stanley. Women were the leaders, and the pastors wife was the head of the group, and she would say “we don’t need the old testament and we need to unhitch it.” Later on, she would say, “we don’t need Paul’s words. We only need Jesus words” when I started bringing up the issue of church leader ship, and what the Bible plainly says about it. These progressive Christians cut the Bible down as much as they can to fit their personal egos and agendas and to maintain social standing. of course I was labeled a misogynist and got ostracized, but I saw the truth that they were Christians who despised God‘s truth, and were willing to compromise whatever they needed to to have influence in their social circles.
So so glad you guys had this conversation on this topic! I was very concerned when I heard what Stanley said, and we need now more than ever to cling to God's Word for WHAT IT SAYS, and not what we feel. Proud of you fellas
I can’t even count how many times I said AMEN watching this! Thank you for responding to Stanley so fearlessly and so lovingly and more than anything-so Biblically. It’s powerful. God bless y’all.
@minute 38... Amen! The old self is crucified with Christ. We are new creations and SLAVES of God. Whatever your born-into-sin is, if it's not laid on the cross, it sits on your throne. What. Ever. The. Sin. Is. We love people and part of love is correction and there cannot be love without truth.
Yes and AMEN! Well stated gentlemen. I am appalled at the LGBTQ statements I see in the general media/entertainment of today.
Amen bro
Great episode. I've just subscribed. Lets pray for Andy Stanley! I'm glad (near the end) you clarified regarding same sex attraction after becoming a Christian. Becoming a Christian does not take away temptation for most people. We go through a sanctification process, a working out of our salvation regarding any sin we struggle with. We have been given a new spirit, but our souls still need to be refined. This is why Paul talks about renewing our minds. Our minds have been corrupted and we repent (change our minds) as we grow spiritually.
We must grip the truth with white knuckles and be willing to live and die for it.
What blesses me the most about this is that young men are speaking out. GOD BLESS THEM!
Thank you so much for standing firm on the words of Christ! We desperately need so much more of this from true Christians. I pray for Andy Stanley to repent of his ways.
You guys earned another follower. By the way I love and fully endorse Mike Winger 😁
Anyone else feel the world Christians inhabit is becoming smaller and smaller every week? Christian music, pastors, and teachers are all becoming sin affirming. "Gracing" people into hell. :(
Could it be the Great falling away?
Thank you for taking a firm stand on this subject and calling out Mr. Stanley as the false teacher he is. We can't shy away from such warnings.
One note: When you’re “born again” it doesn’t magically change who you are, just who you follow. You can still be same sex attracted after being baptized, you just choose to follow God rather than your own desires.
Oh wait they just addressed that haha
This is so sad….and very scary. God please protect your sheep from those who seek to mislead and destroy them.
Thank you so much, I used to listen to Dr. Stanley. Some time I ran across his son and decided to check him out. I was shocked when he said the OT was an ancient book that he didn't know if it was true, "I don't know if it's right, I wasn't there,". He also questioned Christ't belief in the bible. He is not even in my ballpark.
I call the age we're in THE AGE OF THE VEIL...Believers of the lies and haters of truth who have infiltrated the sanctuary...GOD STILL DESPISES WHAT HE HAS DESPISED...THANK YOU GUYS AND PRAYERS FOR ABSOLUTE DIVINE FAVOR...GOD BLESS
I love Charles Stanley. As a new Christian, his sermons have been so valuable. But look at his sons teachings. Kinda like Joel Osteen. They both are telling this worlds people what they want to hear. It’s sad.
Yes. I agree. I just love Charles. He’s 90 now. I imagine his heart his breaking. 💔
There is something very interesting (and frightening) to be learned here, related to the topic of group dynamics. And that is this: The larger the group, and the higher up you are in it, the less likely you are to have people confront you when you go off the rails. This sort of happens in the secular realm as much as it does in Christendom. Think of major figures who have fallen recently, as well as others who won't fall in this life because people are too terrified to ever call them on their junk. For instance, can you imagine people calling out the pope for straying from the truth? (No. He's not infallible.)
A small group doesn't typically let its leaders go off the deep end without saying something. But in a large group, the members figure either that 1) someone else will say something, or 2) maybe what's going on isn't really all that bad. I'm not necessarily putting down mega churches. But I do think that this is possibly their greatest weakness. The issue has to become a massive scandal before people finally call the leader out on their junk.
Thank you for doing this video! False teachers need to be called out.
Thank you for standing for truth. Very troubled that so many are drinking the cultural punch.
I think that what leads people to the position Andy Stanley appears to be in is a deep compassion towards lesbian and gay people. There is a recognition that lifelong celibacy is truly awful and represents lifelong loneliness and misery, often despair, depression, isolation and suicidal thoughts. This leads to a desperate attempt by people like Andy Stanley to have something else to offer. I tried celibacy for years but I found it absolutely awful and it has certainly left me with mental health issues. I bet the person who implied in this programme that lifelong celibacy isn't that bad isn't engaged himself in lifelong celibacy. Not one Christian who tried to fool me into believing that lifelong celibacy was good would have touched it with a bargepole himself. They are not stupid. They would try to encourage me to persevere and warn me that I would be disfellowshipped if I gave in then go home to their warm marital beds when I went home to my bed guaranteed to be cold all my life. I am not completely justifying Andy's position but I am trying to explain it.
@@2wheelz3504 Thanks for taking the time to post this. In general I find that Christians are great at requiring others to make horrendous sacrifices but poor at making such sacrifices themselves. Paul in 1 Corinthians 7 says that single celibate disciples can serve Jesus all the more but in Protestant Churches, that is one of the passages we simply ignore. We don't know that Paul never complained of loneliness and sexual frustration: he speaks of a 'thorn in the flesh' and doesn't define that. And I am fed up with the cant spoken by married Christians when you ask them why they didn't choose lifelong celibacy and got married instead. They will say that they hoped to serve God better with their husband or wife, but 1 Corinthians 7 contradicts that. What they really should say is they married because they thought it would fulfil them more and make them happy. But they don't say that as it makes the con they are perpetrating on me (pretending that lifelong celibacy isn't execrable) all too obvious. When I was celibate for years, I was surprised at how unhelpful and unsupportive Jesus was. Christians would say to me: make a colossal sacrifice for God and God will give you colossal grace. But I didn't find that. You could try it for yourself. Follow the advice Jesus gives to the rich young man - sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor and live by faith in a totally non-materialistic life. If what you are saying is right, you will gain victory and God will bless you richly in spiritual things and what an amazing witness you will be to others. It was all so one-sided for me. Christians - nice people I had known for years and liked - would say that the Christian life involves huge sacrifices from everyone, but when I asked them what sacrifices on the scale of lifelong celibacy they were making themselves (so their experiences might inspire me) but I always drew a blank. Blessings to you anyway.
Can I just say that I really appreciate your soberness and respect when you are doing this video. It is so easy to get full of sarcasm and Snark when we discuss especially the homosexual community. And I see it sadly on a lot of “discernment” TH-cam ministries. just because Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal doesn’t mean that we can sit there and mocked these people. The New Testament talks clearly about respectfully addressing people and our speech being seasoned with salt.
Yes, many so-called discernment and polemical ministries have justified nastiness and seem to exist primarily to tear down, rather than to edify.
Thank you for standing on truth and exposing error!
Greetings from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺
Excellent episode and well handled. Keep up the good work fellas.
Andrew.
“If you love truth you must hate falsehood”. I wish that was more of the heartbeat in the church.
“We make our passions part of our core identity” instead of dying to self. BOOM 💥
Josh was on fire from 35:25-36:50!
@ 15:47 "A. Stanley has now to throw away some things that Jesus said"..Guys it was already in germination when he discussed with Jeff Durbin on the " Unbelievable?" Podcast..At a specific point in their conversation: Jeff tells him honesttly that his position is hereetical. Andy tries to respond/confront/ like "gottcha" moment and says that the Scriptures do not say Jesus raised from the dead , that Jesus didn't say He was who he was sthing to that effects BUT RATHER THAT John said, Paul said etc..
At 28:00 Andy doesn't understand the clobber passages. If he understood Romans 1 he would know the reason these men are homosexual is because they are already under the wrath of God. This is where people are confused about Romans chapter 1. They believe that homosexuals will fall under the wrath of God, I submit that the reason they are homosexuals is because they have already found themselves under the wrath of God and I believe scripture bears this out with the Greek word found in verse 24 26 and 28. paradidōmi.... God gave them up to another. They have been turned over. I submit they have been turned over to Satan for the destruction of The flesh. I know every circumstance is different and praise God there are those who come to faith in Christ and repent and are changed by the power of God. There are those however who do not and will believe a lie and be damned. These men who are wanting to work in the church while committing adultery and performing acts of sodomy. I believe these men fall into the latter category. Prove me wrong
This is stupid. They are misleading people and unfortunately it’s going to cost them eternity.
Andy Stanley asserts that the Christians formed the Bible, not the other way around. This is true, but not in the way, Andy asserts it. The church inherited the old testament Canaan based on what was common use in the Jewish community in any given area. This is why in Ethiopia, the book of Enoch, which was being used by Jews, became a part of the Ethiopian Christian Canon. The New Testament consists of the 4 gospel accounts, John’s apocalypse, and the rest is pastoral letters.
The historical understanding is that the Holy Spirit guided the church in the regular use of these letters. We know for sure Paul and other Apostles wrote pastoral letters we no longer have. They probably had good stuff. But for reasons we do not know the Holy Spirit allowed those to fall to the wayside.
So the cannon was formed through use within the church.
Andy takes a whole other approach. The church made the New Testament, but the Church determines it’s ongoing authority. Therefore Paul has clobber passages because of society changing. And so he can lay aside certain scriptures because they don’t seem to work in the current context of the world. This of course has the Church following culture at large rather than making it.
He can unhitch from whatever doctrine he thinks would damage his church business model. If the secular culture at large thought LGBTQ was horrible Andy would likely take a different side.
Hey Gents- I looked into Stanley’s preaching (or as he calls it ‘communication’ style) and he uses a format of ‘One point’ and a framework of Me-you-God-you-we (or something like that). Basically, he takes something he’s dealing with, assumes everyone else is dealing with it, checks the scripture for what it says, then asks what it says for you to do, then concludes with how we can all do it together….
That seems like a formula for ones own opinions to be paramount versus scripture
Sounds the opposite- using scripture to guide what one does
@@peterfox7663 I can see how at first glance, since scripture comes into play, that would be your first thought. I guess what it seems to me is that he's actually pre-conceiving his conclusion within the first two steps before going to scripture and then finding scripture and using improper exegesis to back up his planned point.
@@rrg0731 approaching the text to support a predetermined conclusion is very different than what you talk about in the first post (checking scripture for what it says, and asking what it says for you to do)
@@peterfox7663 Yeah I didn't articulate what I meant very well.
He didn’t always preach that way. I have 2 years worth of journals filled with notes from his sermons. I feel like God blessed me to let me sit under him.
I am an Evangelical (all my life). However, if we are going to be intellectually honest, we have to give credence to the critique that Sola Scriptura has a significant downside. While I believe the biblical teaching on homosexuality is crystal clear, the debate over this issue can quickly devolve into a religious "food fight" over the "proper" interpretation of Scripture. This is the downside.
Keep up the good work, continue to teach sound doctrine my brothers. Soon He who comes will come.
I don't see the problem with thinking about same sex attraction from a disability framework. How does this condone a sinful practice? It doesn't. How does it marginalize the priority of our identity in Christ? I don't think that necessarily follows from thinking about same sex attraction as a disabling experience either. Finally, whatever holiness means for believers, it does not have anything to do with our sexual orientation, heterosexual or homosexual. IOW, heterosexuality is not an attribute of holiness. Chastity, yes. Sexual purity, yes. But same sex attraction is no more an evil than opposite sex attraction. We are not morally culpable for inate desires. We are morally culpable for how we act on them. So I think you need to stop problematizing the comparison of SSA to a disability.
That’s for making this content and standing firm. God bless you guys!
Those who preach the law of Moses is done away with, are as guilty as this sodamite loving preacher, he is the fruit of their doctrine. God's Law is eternal, including his sabbaths and feast days and dietary guidelines. Eating pork is an abomination according to YHWH, so all those rightly calling homosexuality a sin and an abomination but enjoy their pork are hypocrites. Repent and obey God.
Great video guys. I think a lot of folks will really benefit from this video.
Im not defending Stanley's position, but perhaps you 3 straight, married guys should try to imagine how you would feel if you woke up tomorrow with no wife or children, and with sexual feelings towards women that you believed God strongly condemned. That's how a gay Christian feels every day.
Kinda feels like this video should be about five seconds long with them coming on and just saying, "nope!"
I can't believe this is even a question being asked... the answer ought to be so obvious that the question doesn't even come up. Our world sucks.
Was about to say the same - shortest video in their history. I guess they are doing this for any newborns out there that might not have read the Bible for themselves yet and automatically trust ministers because 'they know more'.
I don't think they are genuinely curious but are just using it as a title and a jumping off point to discuss his views
Yep!!
Additionally, if we justify homosexuality saying someone is born that way then we can't have justice because we are not responsible for our actions. The pedophile isn't committing a crime!!!?? NO! It is a crime. Do we then say a thief is justified because he is born that way??? A thief is not justified and neither can a homosexual.
@@anamericanfriend2367 Exactly and even if they were born that way, they aren’t born again that way!!
I listened to Josh's thief analogy and it falls short in one key way. Josh says that we seem to feel the need to stress - almost apologetically - how much we love lesbians and gay men when seeking to guide them on Biblical teaching but would never dream of telling thieves that we love them. But there is a clear difference here and we miss it for a reason I will explain later. With the thief, the Christian friend / pastor / minister / guide / counsellor is simply insisting from the thief what he or she is insisting on from himself or herself i.e. honesty and not stealing. There can be no hypocrisy here. But with a 100% homosexual person, the Christian, if insisting on Biblical literacy in forbidding all homosexual relationships and behaviour, is prescribing lifelong chastity / celibacy for the other. And yet the Christian, although he or she equally had the option of lifelong chastity, will almost never have opted that. Typically, a married Christian man with a loving wife and three children is telling the other person to endure a life without romance or sexual intimacy; married man returns to his warm bed while the other goes home and opens the door to a single and probably lonely life. That can so easily be seen as hypocrisy or even heartlessness that I think reassurance here is required. The thief analogy breaks down here. Any straight Christian who tells me how I must embrace a life devoid of erotic love - I ask them why they didn't embrace that same option. They always say something similar but I stare into their started eyes and discern their body language and it's always a lie. What the heterosexual Christian should be saying is that marriage was chosen because it gives companionship, romance, support, intimacy, sex and the best chance of a happy life. No way would lifelong chastity / celibacy have been considered: why make yourself lonely, isolated, depressed, despairing, sexually frustrated etc.? But they lie rather than admit to that for fear of sounding hollow and hypocritical.
Miller, you nailed it, Bro. The “Evangelical church” is embracing Universalism or, the new terminology, Inclusionism.
It was the inevitable result of Catholicism and Protestantism unhitching themselves from the authority of the Law by teaching that it was supposedly a bunch of antiquated Jewish rules and traditions that Jesus supposedly. Any religion that unhitches itself from the moral imperatives and principles of the Law is bound to embrace all sorts of perversions.
Are there any teachers in the Charismatic movement who are pro-LGBT affirming? I ask because they can go off the rails on other ways, but I don’t see Charismatics going in a woke/progressive direction on sexuality issues.
I am willing to concede that some people are really born with a desire or attraction to the same sex. But I must also concede that those people did to die to self and be born again.
Agree. Just like many are born with the desire to eat to their temporary fulfillment. Or to tear others down to feel better about ourselves. Our to have whatever the thing is that tickles our fancies. Jesus said that any of us who follow him must lay down our lives (desires, rights to be offended, our own way), take up our cross, & follow Him.
We are born with a sinful nature(ability and propensity to sin), however how we chose to sin is a matter of personal preference and choice!
So if a god designed us born with a sinful nature then that is that gods responsibility. And to design homosexual behavior is also that gods responsibility
When I studied psychology to become a family counselor studies showed that most homosexuality comes from sexual trauma as a child (not born with it).
@@rebeccanewell3449 so why did god design humans to be prone to homosexuality if traumatized?
I've heard Homosexuals say Jesus didn't say anything on the subject of Homosexuality but he did . In Matthew Ch. 19 V 5&6 He said For this cause shall a son leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and the two shall become one flesh. And in 1st Corinthians Ch. 6 V 9 it says Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. That being said we are all sinners and we all need to repent,
Holy smokes. This is such a powerful and well put together video; thank you so much for communicating truth with such love, and for helping others discern in these times.