Hey Joe I got a tip: before twisting, straighten the individual wires better using this technique: put one end in the vice and the other in vice-grips. Then take the vice grips and do an underhand snap so as to shock the wire straight. The trick is that it stretches it a little to erase it's memory of being bent. Old school, from the time that bare copper wire was used to wire up panels... you will find the result after twisting much improved with this prep.
AveRage Joe I'm planning to build a 12V 720Ah house battery using 8x a CALB CA180. I will need bus bars for 400A so I'm looking at copper bar 1" wide by 1/4" thick to handle that... This will replace a 1,200Ah lead acid bank.
Nice!!! That should be a awesome setup! Yeah my power rack is replacing my current setup of 12 T-105 trojin Lead acid batteries. It had 1350ah at 12v but Ive had them since 2007ish. Are you going to do any videos of the progress?
Still doing blog posts :-) It'll be at www.sv-jedi.org I wrote 8 cells above but it's 16. I measured today and have plenty room for even 32 cells if I ever need it! I plan to to some Arduino work around it as well...
Solar Panels... i use one way diodes to regulate power to my braker box so power does not flow back thru the panels at night. I use single 12 volt wire to feed braker box. Brakers are 15 amp. Number 6 wire to controller and 6 to battery bank. Battery to 50 amp shunt number 6. And shunt to inverter 6. 6 also from inverter to supply breaker box and breakers
To make your wire stripping easier, just make a jig with 2 pieces of wood and a hole. Place the 2 pieces of wood together in the vise and drill a hole slightly larger than the wire through the seam where the 2 pieces meet in the vise and then remove. Now you can place a razor blade in between the 2 pieces and line it up so that it scores through the jacket of the wire without hitting the copper and all you then have to do is slide each jacketed piece through the hole and out the other side it will be cut through just enough to make the copper easy to remove all without haveing the razor sticking out. You can also create a similar hole in another spot to score the outer jacket the same way. This makes it very fast and easy. I built one a long time ago when I was scrapping old copper wire.
One thing I forgot to mention but should be common sense is that you can put a dab of silicone grease, wax or petroleum jelly in the opening of the jig to make the wire slide easier if it does bind up.
Yo nice vid! If you want to have straight wire try clamping one end in the vice and the other in a rotating clutch drill, step back until the wire is taught then start twisting the drill. The wire will be straight as an arrow in seconds.
Great stuff I need my battery packs for ebike use. 250w and 700w motor. That are your thoughts on making the packs with as many batteries as possible but having them without spacers but with proper fusing. From your experience, doesn’t catastrophic failure usually happen when, overcharging, too fast charging...over amping....over heating. I purchased a internal resistance meter for 50$ and am hoping to match my batteries with that. I want to keep my risk down for a fire.
Thanks! Only thing I could think of is heat having them so close together. I personally havent built an ebike battery yet so I cant say how warm they could get. What cells are you going to use?
Thanks!!! Yes I do, its a lot of work. Especially since I like to say uuuuuum or aaaaaand aaahhhhhh LOL Gotta cut those all out and put at the end :) I accidentally deleted them on this video, DOH!
Very interesting watching things come along. I do not have the money or time to invest in a battery wall but I do know quite a bit about lithium ion batteries. Recently I was considering the fact that you'd only need 55,000 of those disposable ecigs to power a house for a day. What I am finding with these power wall channels is they aren't really considering the biggest factors that affect battery life. In order the factors that affect li-ion batteries the most are: operational temperature, cycle range, current draw/load and then cycling. Cycling affects li-ions the least of those factors which is a big part of why they have such an advantage over lead acid for home or deep cycle applications. If you're going to custom build packs though the fact that they are recycled makes balancing them important and this is talked about a lot on these channels yet cycle optimization and thermal management seem like way more important factors to consider in longevity than balancing. Another peeve I have is this idea you need huge huge packs which compounds the need for balancing even more. Tesla does this to get massive instantaneous current draw out of them and as you notice are pretty aggressive about not using the full cycle to alleviate balancing issues. Why repeat that in a power wall? So I'm wondering if you'll be experimenting around with some of these other factors in your builds?
Thanks, its coming along one day at a time LOL. Yes Id like to keep them at a optimal temp if possible. I did get 6 bigger 48v dc fans to move the heat out, my cells are farther apart then most others and the slide out shelves have slots. I dont no how much heat they will produce at this time tho. Cycle range I think is important and want to get the most out of the cells. Current draw I will vary depending on what all I can power. At this time I only have about 700 watts in solar, so Ill need to start getting more panels. I can only afford 1 panel here and 1 there. What all have you read about temp,cycle range, current draw ect.
Regarding thermal management air cooling is fine there is no need to do water cooling. However an AC might be necessary because sudden high draw current the battery temp will climb rapidly easily when the hot water heater and oven is on at the same time. Then that won't cool off without lots of circulation and just a few hours of temps over 40C while its under load would eat into an 18650s cycle life even over time. Even 30C isn't great especially recycled batteries are not likely to handle the high temps well. This means outside temps on most months wouldn't be a problem for the cells cooling off but they can reach peaks that are very high and during the hotter months around 30C would be bad not because its that bad for them to be that hot except that they will get much much hotter than that during higher current draws lasting several hours. My research largely comes from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery , common sense stuff like that Tesla walls use water cooling despite being stationary and lower current and university researchers like this guy: www.almaden.ibm.com/institute/2009/resources/2009/presentations/JeffDahn-AlmadenInstitute2009.pdf
Yeah I shouldnt need water cooling but if the need arises I can insert tubes between the cells and pump water or coolant. 30c/86f doesnt seem to be to hot to me but I think my system should stay below that with the fans. Ill have an intake side and a exhaust side similar to a computer tower. I dont think my setup at 10kw would run the AC for very long. I plan to run most of the led lights, tv/outlets and fridge to start with. Thats what I did with my lead acid batteries. As time goes on Ill add more packs if I get a steady supply of cells. Thanks for the links Ill check them out.
at a 5kw draw on his power wall each cell will only be drawing about 1A and maybe peak at 1.5A when appliances first start. thats only 0.4c constant for maybe 5mins while cooking a pie in the microwave while making toast. if you have good quality cells (I understand these are recycled) then they won't heat much past room temp, during the day you will have the solar to compensate this and some will even have the grid to take the load off the system. he's building a 10kw battery, he won't be going fully off grid yet.
Uhhh, yeah, this is why I decided to go with buying bare 6AWG, I don't need another project on top of my battery project. ;) If you are planning on a ring terminal, I'm concerned that you will not have enough over hang to accommodate for this option. Currently I have about 3" of over hang that I bend into position for ring terminals. New Camera rocks BTW!
+Terry Texas Thanks man, Ya I had that roll of 12g wire sitting there for a while so I figured Id use it. No I dont plan to use any ring terminals. Have other plans for that :)
Did you print the 18650 holders yourself, if so why you not print it a little wider so the busbar can fit easely between, just an suggestion great explaining video
Super cool video. I've recently started harvesting cells with the goal of powering up lights + fans of the house with a powerwall, inverter & solar. I'm gonna be building 80 cell packs and will start with 3. Please forgive my newbie question. What is the main advantage of using 48v over 12v? Can I start with a 3p 12v Power Inverter (3000-6000watts), to later upgrade to 14p 48v?
+Francisco Suarez Thanks! 48v is more efficient. Yes you could start with a 3s80p setup for 12v but to run 3000-6000watts you would kill the batteries pretty fast. Also if you start with 12v then move to 48v later you end up buying more stuff or things twice like an inverter for example. If you can hold out and go 48v first, I would do that🖒
Higher voltage =~ less IR drop for the same wattage, as Resistance is largely a constant, and Current is reduced by increased voltage. Also, 13S is a common Ebike voltage, hence BMSes for ~ 48 volts are something of a commodity, as are those for 14s. 48 volt input inverters, however, are a lot more common, as are Buck converters, for 48 volts.
oi oi oi - LOL @ stripping.... I am wondering why people r going with larger gauge wire solid core when the consensus is that fine gauge cores bundled up transfer DC supposedly better? and may take less heat to speed up the process of soldering them maybe??
LOLZ. I used what I had laying around. Ya dc is better with a bunch of fine wire bunched together but Im not sure about the soldering part, didnt try tho either :)
the cells you are grouping are around 100 18650 cells if we consider 2000 mA and all of them in parallel you will have around 200 amp I think your bus is to thin. I think you need the equivalent of #2AWG
That is only if he ever decided to pull 200 amps from each pack if you were talking about a 90C rated jacketed wire. In reality, they will likely see far less than half an amp per cell in normal operation. Now let's figure out how much each busbar can really handle. Each 12 gauge wire at such short lengths in the open air is likely good for continuous 40 amps with a fusing current of 235amps for 10 seconds. This will likely be a 6-7% voltage drop at 40 amps per strand. With 40 amps per strand, you can pull over 100amps per 3 strand leg but also remember he has each leg soldered to effectively 50% of the cells since it is U-shaped. So with open air, he should be able to pull 120 Amps + 120 Amps = 240 Amps per pack continuous which is still more than enough with a 10-second fuse current of just over 1400Amps which are well beyond where all the battery fuses will blow.
+AZTekkie I was just goin to let the fuse hold them but since the pvc I used are all different wall thinknessessssss, I came up with a fix and that vid along with the fuses in next video
When you cut your PVC holders how thick did you make them and did you use PVC adhesive to connect them or did you use super glue? Thank you. Love your videos.
Very nice job, and impressive quality cam too!! It seems your busbars are 10mm2, where HBPowerwall was 5mm2, and flyjabiru11 was 6mm2. do you agree? was it on purpose?
+Ernesto Sabado Thanks, I was just mimicing a 6gauge wire basically/using up the wire I had and my packs are 100s, petes are 77 and cant remember what flyjabiru11's are. Might be 100s. I probly could of used less but this what I ended up doin lol
Hey average joe i need a little help. I was asked to make a battery pack for a customer. There system is 12v has 2 lead asid batteries in it. The compartment has just enough space to hook up the wires. I was thinking 4s and how ever many parallel i can get. Should i empliment a bms or not? Also i need help getting fuses to prevent pack damage. Thanks
I would for sure use a bms even if its one of the cheap ones since 3s or 4s doesnt match up perfectly. 3s is kinda low of 12.6 max voltage and 4s 16.8v. You could possibly use LifePo4 cells, there voltages match better. Depending on the how many parallel cells and what kind of cells you use will help determine the fuse. If using used laptop cells I wouldnt go over a 1amp discharge per cell and no more then a 3amp axial glass fuse since the fuse will pop at roughly 6amps. I use .5 amp fuses and they pop at 2 amps. The 1amp fuses also pop at 2 amps. Most everything else pops at twice there rating on the axial glass fuses. 👍
LOL Thanks, Yeah I would have gotten bare copper wire but I had this wire sitting off to the side for the last 4-5 years and I havent touched it. So I figured why not put it to good use ;)
I want to use a powerwall as either a backup to grid power in the event of an outage or a way to store power to take advantages of lower day rates. So my question is, do they make an inverter that will also correctly recharge the powerwall (18650 cells)?? If so can you share a link?
The pip-ms/msx series I believe can do both solar and grid. It has a mppt charge controller built in. If you dont want to use solar you dont have to. www.mppsolar.com/v3/pip-ms-series/ or www.mppsolar.com/v3/pip-hs-series/
This is the first time making these and have not used any copper blocks of any sort. I know others are using the copper block method but I dont plan to go that route.
@@AveRage_Joe each strand of copper in your b. bar has a gauge. Flyjabirus (?) Is 2.5mm2 I think. I was wondering if you knew what gauge you used? It looks like 14 way solid copper.
Depends on the max amps of pack. I did 3 12awg twisted together for 60amps however since it bends around the pack for both sides its 120amps max. Each 12awg is 20amps.
I figured up to 1amp per cell since I was using a bunch of random old laptop and medical cells. I have 100 cells per pack so that is 100a. I could run higher for short time if needed. If using new cells then go off the specs of new cells. If using random old cells then I would only go up to 1amp per cell. So 100p is 100amp, 80p is 80 amp ect.... Does that help? Let me know!🤘
Congrats for really interesting videos, they are a pleasure to watch. I hope you keep them coming. I have one question, since I'm trying to replicate these bus bars: I've done 4 so far, and they're all kinky. My question is: are the kinky ones safe for use with same amperage as the non-kinky? Or is it only a matter of aesthetics? Thanks for your help.
+fmarpt Ya im still using the kinky ones. There still bus bars :) Im workn on another bus bar vid and found a lil trick for inserting in drill. Basically i just wrapped some really tiny wire around the wires to keep them close together on the drill side. Once in drill keep a lot of tension while spinning and it helps with the kinks
I used tape. Easier to insert in drill. Maybe more tension will help with the kinkiness...:) have to try it. But the important thing for me is they're safe to use
Thanks! Its probly not that much of a difference except maybe when soldering fuses or fuse wire. If you do fuse wire you would want to extend them a little to around 10mm (my opinion). If I had a bunch of the copper pipe on hand I would of used it. I used the twisted method since I had that wire at home allready 🖒
Nods ...well I do have copper pipe leftover. :) So I am going to try that on my first build. There is another build on here where the builder flattens it, uses a dremel to cut a channel through one side of the flattened pipe and solders the fuse links to it and then solders each fuse link to the cells ... sounds like a decent idea so I am going to try that as well. thanks again for all your hard work.
AveRage Joe ok, I understand obtainium and onhandium! I just wondered why someone would go out and buy the wire and strip it off when you could just buy the bare wire. Onhandium makes the difference! And ...listening to this the second time I heard you say about buying bare wire! Missed it the first time!
Yes you could. That was going to be my method but I ended up doing the twisted wire because I had a roll of the 12/2. I did use 1/4" pipe that I smashed down as a bus bar in some of my fuse testing videos. It worked great. I used the pipe that was used for a water line to the freezer to make ice from lowes.
I'm in the Dominican Republic. The systems here use deep cycle 30Ah marines batteries in an array, charging them off the grid, then switching to an inverter when the power goes out twice a day. But most homes only need a few amp hour for LED lights and maybe a TV or computer. Fridges don't lose temp in four hours. It will be a real game changer when we can use Tesla batteries. Aside from costing $75-$100 each, marine batteries crap out after a couple years. The whole system is $1000 with one battery so I'm wanting to go DIY when I can.
I have been using the trojan batteries for the last 10 years or so and they have worked really well. They are the golf cart 6volt t-105 and 225amps each. Can you get those down there. I would thing marine batteries would be good. If you used a mppt or pwm charge controller I bet the batteries would last a lot longer because they are designed for lead acid batteries. I use a xantrex C60 and it works awesome. Maybe you could try a desulfator on them or build a ssgc charger. They are easy to build and work like a desulfator. I use it on my boat batteries, lawn mower and any other lead acid I get and it brings them back to life.
Trojan is the preferred brand here, but two or three years is the typical lifespan from using every day. I'm considering a backup 12dc system since we have very limited need.
I have been thinking about trying it :) as I dont have anything else to charge with at the moment. Ill have to get the manual out to see if I can change the settings to meet the requirements.
Why not to buy bare wires to do it. Isn't it a waste to skin the wire both the material and the time. Surprised to learn that bare wire is more expansive.
Yeah bare would be a batter choice but I had wire on hand so thats what I used. Also YES later on I saw that bare was more expensive!🤷♂️ Crazy isnt it!
AveRage Joe why didn't you use the copper pipe for frig? Not enough to carry the current or more expensive? How about using a M type copper pipe after smashing it flat?
I really thought about using the copper pipe but I was trying to do everything as cheap as I could and recycling as much as possible. I think the copper tube would carry the current as most cells are far less then 1amp each. Yeah you could smash it flat for sure. I make my own terminal lugs with copper pipe and smash it flat.
+Ian Home Not sure what you mean by 10kw battery with 5kw of batteries but ill be using a 3500watt and my batteries will be just abive 10kw. Basically you dont want to go over the max amps of the cells or the amps that your packs or batteries can put out. Hope that makes since.
Well I knew what I was trying to say .. doh .. that should read 10kw battery and 5kw of solar panels. Thanks for the videos BTW. I'm trying to build a battery pack with 18650 batteries .. was wondering if I expanded the battery system what inverter I should get that will cope with above ? 12 gage wire is 2mm .. I hope so because I just ordered some for battery packs .. I'm thinking 20*4 batteries per pack (or should I do 100 per pack like you ?). So need buzz bar for that many .. have ordered the cell holders from ali express
I thought you ment to say that but Ive been wrong before. My intuitive skills were off that day ;) What battery voltage are you planning to use. "They" say you shouldnt go over (in watts or amps) what your battery pack can produce so you cant ruin your packs from to much drain at once basically. Im using used laptop cells so my amp draw would be smaller vs used tool cells. Plan it that way if you can. What all are you planning on powering? Yeah your right, 12g wire is mm. 80 or 100 is fine. I just happen to build my first pack 100 so I just kept with it. I didnt have a reason at the time. Im glad I stuck with it because they fit on the server rack shelve great :)
Battery is 1,000 18650's to start with (which I think gives me around 8kw of power) Battery is planned at 48 volts (for inverter) .. Planning on powering a house (which used between 10-20kw per day) Still trying to work out what calculations are for series and parallel. I think at 3.7 nominal I need 13 cells in series to get the volts up to 48v. Was just limiting the packs to 80 because there will be less heat on the buzz bar .. (sounds like 100 in a pack would be ok)
Yeah if your packs are 80p and cells are 2000ma than at 48v your roughly at 8kw. Most would do 14s because the higher the voltage then less losses. Some are even doing 15s :O Yeah 100p would only help but if you keep adding strings of 13s or 14s then 80 cell packs or 100 cell packs wont matter to much especially for heat
This is my 3rd time building this pack, and I build it mostly out of trash, I build it better every time! lol, I use it mostly for experimenting, Probably going to put it in a toy boat next. the cells are likely pretty annoyed with me anyway, hopefully I wont need to rebuild it again, need... pft, might do it again for the hell of at 3 in the morning in a few months.
I have learned my lesson in doing bus bars the easy way and I thank you for your generous sharing 😊
Thanks for watching!💥🤘
knew there was a reason to hold off on making my buss bars. Do like that design a bit more than i've been using.
+AZTekkie They do make it look nice
Hey Joe I got a tip: before twisting, straighten the individual wires better using this technique: put one end in the vice and the other in vice-grips. Then take the vice grips and do an underhand snap so as to shock the wire straight. The trick is that it stretches it a little to erase it's memory of being bent. Old school, from the time that bare copper wire was used to wire up panels... you will find the result after twisting much improved with this prep.
Thanks!!! Ill give it a try, I still need 6 more to complete the rest of my packs lol. I didnt have enough :( Are you building a powerwall?
AveRage Joe I'm planning to build a 12V 720Ah house battery using 8x a CALB CA180. I will need bus bars for 400A so I'm looking at copper bar 1" wide by 1/4" thick to handle that... This will replace a 1,200Ah lead acid bank.
Nice!!! That should be a awesome setup! Yeah my power rack is replacing my current setup of 12 T-105 trojin Lead acid batteries. It had 1350ah at 12v but Ive had them since 2007ish. Are you going to do any videos of the progress?
Still doing blog posts :-) It'll be at www.sv-jedi.org
I wrote 8 cells above but it's 16. I measured today and have plenty room for even 32 cells if I ever need it! I plan to to some Arduino work around it as well...
Solar Panels... i use one way diodes to regulate power to my braker box so power does not flow back thru the panels at night. I use single 12 volt wire to feed braker box. Brakers are 15 amp. Number 6 wire to controller and 6 to battery bank. Battery to 50 amp shunt number 6. And shunt to inverter 6. 6 also from inverter to supply breaker box and breakers
To make your wire stripping easier, just make a jig with 2 pieces of wood and a hole. Place the 2 pieces of wood together in the vise and drill a hole slightly larger than the wire through the seam where the 2 pieces meet in the vise and then remove. Now you can place a razor blade in between the 2 pieces and line it up so that it scores through the jacket of the wire without hitting the copper and all you then have to do is slide each jacketed piece through the hole and out the other side it will be cut through just enough to make the copper easy to remove all without haveing the razor sticking out. You can also create a similar hole in another spot to score the outer jacket the same way. This makes it very fast and easy. I built one a long time ago when I was scrapping old copper wire.
Thats an even better Idea! I was going to make one out of some scrap metal but wood would be a little faster. Thanks, nice idea!
One thing I forgot to mention but should be common sense is that you can put a dab of silicone grease, wax or petroleum jelly in the opening of the jig to make the wire slide easier if it does bind up.
Yo nice vid! If you want to have straight wire try clamping one end in the vice and the other in a rotating clutch drill, step back until the wire is taught then start twisting the drill. The wire will be straight as an arrow in seconds.
Thank You!!!🖒
Great stuff
I need my battery packs for ebike use. 250w and 700w motor.
That are your thoughts on making the packs with as many batteries as possible but having them without spacers but with proper fusing.
From your experience, doesn’t catastrophic failure usually happen when, overcharging, too fast charging...over amping....over heating.
I purchased a internal resistance meter for 50$ and am hoping to match my batteries with that.
I want to keep my risk down for a fire.
Thanks! Only thing I could think of is heat having them so close together. I personally havent built an ebike battery yet so I cant say how warm they could get. What cells are you going to use?
Nice video on making the bus bars! I like your minimalist jig. Simple but effective.
Thank You!!!😀👍
You put a lot of effort into these videos. Fair play. Looks great.
Thanks!!! Yes I do, its a lot of work. Especially since I like to say uuuuuum or aaaaaand aaahhhhhh LOL Gotta cut those all out and put at the end :) I accidentally deleted them on this video, DOH!
Very interesting watching things come along. I do not have the money or time to invest in a battery wall but I do know quite a bit about lithium ion batteries. Recently I was considering the fact that you'd only need 55,000 of those disposable ecigs to power a house for a day. What I am finding with these power wall channels is they aren't really considering the biggest factors that affect battery life. In order the factors that affect li-ion batteries the most are: operational temperature, cycle range, current draw/load and then cycling. Cycling affects li-ions the least of those factors which is a big part of why they have such an advantage over lead acid for home or deep cycle applications. If you're going to custom build packs though the fact that they are recycled makes balancing them important and this is talked about a lot on these channels yet cycle optimization and thermal management seem like way more important factors to consider in longevity than balancing. Another peeve I have is this idea you need huge huge packs which compounds the need for balancing even more. Tesla does this to get massive instantaneous current draw out of them and as you notice are pretty aggressive about not using the full cycle to alleviate balancing issues. Why repeat that in a power wall? So I'm wondering if you'll be experimenting around with some of these other factors in your builds?
Thanks, its coming along one day at a time LOL. Yes Id like to keep them at a optimal temp if possible. I did get 6 bigger 48v dc fans to move the heat out, my cells are farther apart then most others and the slide out shelves have slots. I dont no how much heat they will produce at this time tho. Cycle range I think is important and want to get the most out of the cells. Current draw I will vary depending on what all I can power. At this time I only have about 700 watts in solar, so Ill need to start getting more panels. I can only afford 1 panel here and 1 there. What all have you read about temp,cycle range, current draw ect.
Regarding thermal management air cooling is fine there is no need to do water cooling. However an AC might be necessary because sudden high draw current the battery temp will climb rapidly easily when the hot water heater and oven is on at the same time. Then that won't cool off without lots of circulation and just a few hours of temps over 40C while its under load would eat into an 18650s cycle life even over time. Even 30C isn't great especially recycled batteries are not likely to handle the high temps well. This means outside temps on most months wouldn't be a problem for the cells cooling off but they can reach peaks that are very high and during the hotter months around 30C would be bad not because its that bad for them to be that hot except that they will get much much hotter than that during higher current draws lasting several hours.
My research largely comes from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery , common sense stuff like that Tesla walls use water cooling despite being stationary and lower current and university researchers like this guy: www.almaden.ibm.com/institute/2009/resources/2009/presentations/JeffDahn-AlmadenInstitute2009.pdf
Yeah I shouldnt need water cooling but if the need arises I can insert tubes between the cells and pump water or coolant. 30c/86f doesnt seem to be to hot to me but I think my system should stay below that with the fans. Ill have an intake side and a exhaust side similar to a computer tower. I dont think my setup at 10kw would run the AC for very long. I plan to run most of the led lights, tv/outlets and fridge to start with. Thats what I did with my lead acid batteries. As time goes on Ill add more packs if I get a steady supply of cells. Thanks for the links Ill check them out.
at a 5kw draw on his power wall each cell will only be drawing about 1A and maybe peak at 1.5A when appliances first start. thats only 0.4c constant for maybe 5mins while cooking a pie in the microwave while making toast. if you have good quality cells (I understand these are recycled) then they won't heat much past room temp, during the day you will have the solar to compensate this and some will even have the grid to take the load off the system. he's building a 10kw battery, he won't be going fully off grid yet.
Uhhh, yeah, this is why I decided to go with buying bare 6AWG, I don't need another project on top of my battery project. ;) If you are planning on a ring terminal, I'm concerned that you will not have enough over hang to accommodate for this option. Currently I have about 3" of over hang that I bend into position for ring terminals. New Camera rocks BTW!
+Terry Texas Thanks man, Ya I had that roll of 12g wire sitting there for a while so I figured Id use it. No I dont plan to use any ring terminals. Have other plans for that :)
That's a really cool way of doing it!
Thank you very much Joe!
You betcha!
New camera is looking great!
+levik1832 Thanks Man!!!
Go to a scrapyard to look for copper wire by the pound it will be significantly cheaper than buying anything new
Ill have to do that for the next round😀🖒
Always interesting.
Thanks Man!
If you clam shell the razor and drill a hole thru some plywood you could make a wire stripper that way
Yep Ive seen those, might have to try it!!
Neat setup
+John Morin Thanks!👍
Hello.. you are doing really good. Pls I wish to know how to link a BMS in 14 s and 7 s series for 24 and 48 volt connections
Thanks for the link.. Yes it was me that come up with it :-)
You betcha!😆🤘
@@AveRage_Joe Nice work on your battery packs too !
Thanks Man!!
Nice job!
+Steve Dutcher Thanks man and Thanks for watching!
you should check how i split my cables. a bit safer :) simple tool i did build. good work m8!
+DIY Tech & Repairs Thanks, Ill check out your tool ;) Is it a vid all by itself
beauty ! (bus bars)
+Richard Riehle Thank You!!!
Looking nice bro
Thanks for watching!!!
Did you print the 18650 holders yourself, if so why you not print it a little wider so the busbar can fit easely between, just an suggestion great explaining video
No, I didnt print the holders. I cut them from sch80 pvc pipe I found at Lowes hardware store!
Nice! Was really looking forward to the cat-skinning part! :-)
They look great!
+jimginnyohio Here kitty kitty lol. Thanks man!
Super cool video. I've recently started harvesting cells with the goal of powering up lights + fans of the house with a powerwall, inverter & solar. I'm gonna be building 80 cell packs and will start with 3. Please forgive my newbie question. What is the main advantage of using 48v over 12v? Can I start with a 3p 12v Power Inverter (3000-6000watts), to later upgrade to 14p 48v?
+Francisco Suarez Thanks! 48v is more efficient. Yes you could start with a 3s80p setup for 12v but to run 3000-6000watts you would kill the batteries pretty fast. Also if you start with 12v then move to 48v later you end up buying more stuff or things twice like an inverter for example. If you can hold out and go 48v first, I would do that🖒
Higher voltage =~ less IR drop for the same wattage, as Resistance is largely a constant, and Current is reduced by increased voltage.
Also, 13S is a common Ebike voltage, hence BMSes for ~ 48 volts are something of a commodity, as are those for 14s. 48 volt input inverters, however, are a lot more common, as are Buck converters, for 48 volts.
oi oi oi - LOL @ stripping.... I am wondering why people r going with larger gauge wire solid core when the consensus is that fine gauge cores bundled up transfer DC supposedly better? and may take less heat to speed up the process of soldering them maybe??
LOLZ. I used what I had laying around. Ya dc is better with a bunch of fine wire bunched together but Im not sure about the soldering part, didnt try tho either :)
what you clean up i didn't even notice :)
good video as all ways.
+Zero Bytes Ok good then maybe the mess wasnt noticeable lol.
its unherd off for a tinker to have a clean bench :)
but all good was just taking the piss out of ya
cant wait see the end result.
+Zero Bytes I know right, I cant wait either.
the cells you are grouping are around 100 18650 cells if we consider 2000 mA and all of them in parallel you will have around 200 amp I think your bus is to thin. I think you need the equivalent of #2AWG
Oh do you think, How come?
That is only if he ever decided to pull 200 amps from each pack if you were talking about a 90C rated jacketed wire. In reality, they will likely see far less than half an amp per cell in normal operation.
Now let's figure out how much each busbar can really handle. Each 12 gauge wire at such short lengths in the open air is likely good for continuous 40 amps with a fusing current of 235amps for 10 seconds. This will likely be a 6-7% voltage drop at 40 amps per strand. With 40 amps per strand, you can pull over 100amps per 3 strand leg but also remember he has each leg soldered to effectively 50% of the cells since it is U-shaped. So with open air, he should be able to pull 120 Amps + 120 Amps = 240 Amps per pack continuous which is still more than enough with a 10-second fuse current of just over 1400Amps which are well beyond where all the battery fuses will blow.
YES!! All of that ^^^^^
how do you plan on attaching them to your holders or are you just relying on the fuse wires to keep them attached?
+AZTekkie I was just goin to let the fuse hold them but since the pvc I used are all different wall thinknessessssss, I came up with a fix and that vid along with the fuses in next video
When you cut your PVC holders how thick did you make them and did you use PVC adhesive to connect them or did you use super glue? Thank you. Love your videos.
Thanks Man! I cut them to about 3/8" and Yep, just uses super glue 🤣
Very nice job, and impressive quality cam too!!
It seems your busbars are 10mm2, where HBPowerwall was 5mm2, and flyjabiru11 was 6mm2. do you agree? was it on purpose?
+Ernesto Sabado Thanks, I was just mimicing a 6gauge wire basically/using up the wire I had and my packs are 100s, petes are 77 and cant remember what flyjabiru11's are. Might be 100s. I probly could of used less but this what I ended up doin lol
hey Joe, thanks for the vedio. just wandering how many strands are there in the black cable you stripped? is it single copper wire or 5-6 strand.
pratik das Thanks for watching! Yeah the wire I used was just the 3 strands of 12g wire! 🖒
Hey average joe i need a little help. I was asked to make a battery pack for a customer. There system is 12v has 2 lead asid batteries in it. The compartment has just enough space to hook up the wires. I was thinking 4s and how ever many parallel i can get. Should i empliment a bms or not? Also i need help getting fuses to prevent pack damage. Thanks
I would for sure use a bms even if its one of the cheap ones since 3s or 4s doesnt match up perfectly. 3s is kinda low of 12.6 max voltage and 4s 16.8v. You could possibly use LifePo4 cells, there voltages match better. Depending on the how many parallel cells and what kind of cells you use will help determine the fuse. If using used laptop cells I wouldnt go over a 1amp discharge per cell and no more then a 3amp axial glass fuse since the fuse will pop at roughly 6amps. I use .5 amp fuses and they pop at 2 amps. The 1amp fuses also pop at 2 amps. Most everything else pops at twice there rating on the axial glass fuses. 👍
Its old laptop batteries being used. If you could do a video to help me as im waiting for all parts and trying to prosess the batteries
Hello Joe i am looking to a small wire 6 amp or 5 amp for my 18650 pack
Plz tell as how to get it...
Thank so much
For bus bars or fuses?
For fuses..
For fuse wire Im not sure. If you use the glass fuses Id go with 3amp if you want them to pop around 5-6amps.
@@AveRage_Joe did you mean if i choose the 3amp fuses his cut-off about 5 or 6 amp????
@@freeenergy Yeah the axial glass fuses I use typically pop at double there rating!
You make a good stripper.. why waste all the insulation that would be useful. Why not get a non-insulated copper wire/cable?
LOL Thanks, Yeah I would have gotten bare copper wire but I had this wire sitting off to the side for the last 4-5 years and I havent touched it. So I figured why not put it to good use ;)
I want to use a powerwall as either a backup to grid power in the event of an outage or a way to store power to take advantages of lower day rates. So my question is, do they make an inverter that will also correctly recharge the powerwall (18650 cells)?? If so can you share a link?
The pip-ms/msx series I believe can do both solar and grid. It has a mppt charge controller built in. If you dont want to use solar you dont have to. www.mppsolar.com/v3/pip-ms-series/ or www.mppsolar.com/v3/pip-hs-series/
Are you going to use solar also?
No I am not Thanks for the fast reply
no
Will this technique replace your previous method using three strands of copper wire connected to the copper plate?
This is the first time making these and have not used any copper blocks of any sort. I know others are using the copper block method but I dont plan to go that route.
Sorry, my mistake.
+Paul Rahe :) No Problem
Joe is the copper equivalent to 14 AWG solid gauge? Apologies if this has been asked before
AWG = American wire gauge and SWG = Standard wire gauge. Unless I misunderstood what you are asking and or some words didnt make in through.
@@AveRage_Joe each strand of copper in your b. bar has a gauge. Flyjabirus (?) Is 2.5mm2 I think. I was wondering if you knew what gauge you used? It looks like 14 way solid copper.
OOOOOOOH My bad, Yeah I used 3 strands of 12awg!
Hey! Joe, for a 100p pack how many wires do I need to twist togdther?
Depends on the max amps of pack. I did 3 12awg twisted together for 60amps however since it bends around the pack for both sides its 120amps max. Each 12awg is 20amps.
How do you calculate for max amps for a 100p pack?
I figured up to 1amp per cell since I was using a bunch of random old laptop and medical cells. I have 100 cells per pack so that is 100a. I could run higher for short time if needed. If using new cells then go off the specs of new cells. If using random old cells then I would only go up to 1amp per cell. So 100p is 100amp, 80p is 80 amp ect.... Does that help? Let me know!🤘
Congrats for really interesting videos, they are a pleasure to watch. I hope you keep them coming.
I have one question, since I'm trying to replicate these bus bars: I've done 4 so far, and they're all kinky. My question is: are the kinky ones safe for use with same amperage as the non-kinky? Or is it only a matter of aesthetics? Thanks for your help.
+fmarpt Ya im still using the kinky ones. There still bus bars :) Im workn on another bus bar vid and found a lil trick for inserting in drill. Basically i just wrapped some really tiny wire around the wires to keep them close together on the drill side. Once in drill keep a lot of tension while spinning and it helps with the kinks
I used tape. Easier to insert in drill. Maybe more tension will help with the kinkiness...:) have to try it. But the important thing for me is they're safe to use
+fmarpt Yeah I would of used tape but stuff I had was crap lol
Question, the bent end, can't that go in 1 cell ?
Yeah that was my bad😀 For sure go in one row!
AveRage Joe oh, I’m a noob, that was a serious question. At least I’m learning! Woot!
Which pvc were you using for the cell holders? The size please
PVC was from Lowes and is 3/4" sch80 part# 49731!
woo hoo thank you!!
😃👍
Good again Joe ....so do you think twisted wire is better than a flat copper busbar made out of flattened copper pipe?
Thanks! Its probly not that much of a difference except maybe when soldering fuses or fuse wire. If you do fuse wire you would want to extend them a little to around 10mm (my opinion). If I had a bunch of the copper pipe on hand I would of used it. I used the twisted method since I had that wire at home allready 🖒
Nods ...well I do have copper pipe leftover. :) So I am going to try that on my first build. There is another build on here where the builder flattens it, uses a dremel to cut a channel through one side of the flattened pipe and solders the fuse links to it and then solders each fuse link to the cells ... sounds like a decent idea so I am going to try that as well. thanks again for all your hard work.
Yeah I would for sure use it. Thats a cool Idea for the fuses. Ill have to look around to find! Good luck with your build!🔋👍
hey Joe, where can I find the batteries holders in your video?
I made them up myself! Heres a older video I did about making them th-cam.com/video/ChN9q7bVRRk/w-d-xo.html
You can just buy a roll of copper ground wire!
+PlanePreacher Yes you can! I was just using as much stuff I had around the house 👍
AveRage Joe ok, I understand obtainium and onhandium! I just wondered why someone would go out and buy the wire and strip it off when you could just buy the bare wire. Onhandium makes the difference! And ...listening to this the second time I heard you say about buying bare wire! Missed it the first time!
Could you use 1/4 copper pipe pounded flat for a bus bar?
Yes you could. That was going to be my method but I ended up doing the twisted wire because I had a roll of the 12/2. I did use 1/4" pipe that I smashed down as a bus bar in some of my fuse testing videos. It worked great. I used the pipe that was used for a water line to the freezer to make ice from lowes.
I'm in the Dominican Republic. The systems here use deep cycle 30Ah marines batteries in an array, charging them off the grid, then switching to an inverter when the power goes out twice a day. But most homes only need a few amp hour for LED lights and maybe a TV or computer. Fridges don't lose temp in four hours. It will be a real game changer when we can use Tesla batteries. Aside from costing $75-$100 each, marine batteries crap out after a couple years. The whole system is $1000 with one battery so I'm wanting to go DIY when I can.
I have been using the trojan batteries for the last 10 years or so and they have worked really well. They are the golf cart 6volt t-105 and 225amps each. Can you get those down there. I would thing marine batteries would be good. If you used a mppt or pwm charge controller I bet the batteries would last a lot longer because they are designed for lead acid batteries. I use a xantrex C60 and it works awesome. Maybe you could try a desulfator on them or build a ssgc charger. They are easy to build and work like a desulfator. I use it on my boat batteries, lawn mower and any other lead acid I get and it brings them back to life.
Trojan is the preferred brand here, but two or three years is the typical lifespan from using every day. I'm considering a backup 12dc system since we have very limited need.
I have been thinking about trying it :) as I dont have anything else to charge with at the moment. Ill have to get the manual out to see if I can change the settings to meet the requirements.
Why not to buy bare wires to do it. Isn't it a waste to skin the wire both the material and the time. Surprised to learn that bare wire is more expansive.
Yeah bare would be a batter choice but I had wire on hand so thats what I used. Also YES later on I saw that bare was more expensive!🤷♂️ Crazy isnt it!
AveRage Joe why didn't you use the copper pipe for frig? Not enough to carry the current or more expensive? How about using a M type copper pipe after smashing it flat?
I really thought about using the copper pipe but I was trying to do everything as cheap as I could and recycling as much as possible. I think the copper tube would carry the current as most cells are far less then 1amp each. Yeah you could smash it flat for sure. I make my own terminal lugs with copper pipe and smash it flat.
what inverter would I need for a 10k battery with 5kw of batteries?
+Ian Home Not sure what you mean by 10kw battery with 5kw of batteries but ill be using a 3500watt and my batteries will be just abive 10kw. Basically you dont want to go over the max amps of the cells or the amps that your packs or batteries can put out. Hope that makes since.
Well I knew what I was trying to say .. doh .. that should read 10kw battery and 5kw of solar panels. Thanks for the videos BTW. I'm trying to build a battery pack with 18650 batteries .. was wondering if I expanded the battery system what inverter I should get that will cope with above ? 12 gage wire is 2mm .. I hope so because I just ordered some for battery packs .. I'm thinking 20*4 batteries per pack (or should I do 100 per pack like you ?). So need buzz bar for that many .. have ordered the cell holders from ali express
I thought you ment to say that but Ive been wrong before. My intuitive skills were off that day ;) What battery voltage are you planning to use. "They" say you shouldnt go over (in watts or amps) what your battery pack can produce so you cant ruin your packs from to much drain at once basically. Im using used laptop cells so my amp draw would be smaller vs used tool cells. Plan it that way if you can. What all are you planning on powering? Yeah your right, 12g wire is mm. 80 or 100 is fine. I just happen to build my first pack 100 so I just kept with it. I didnt have a reason at the time. Im glad I stuck with it because they fit on the server rack shelve great :)
Battery is 1,000 18650's to start with (which I think gives me around 8kw of power)
Battery is planned at 48 volts (for inverter) ..
Planning on powering a house (which used between 10-20kw per day)
Still trying to work out what calculations are for series and parallel. I think at 3.7 nominal I need 13 cells in series to get the volts up to 48v.
Was just limiting the packs to 80 because there will be less heat on the buzz bar .. (sounds like 100 in a pack would be ok)
Yeah if your packs are 80p and cells are 2000ma than at 48v your roughly at 8kw. Most would do 14s because the higher the voltage then less losses. Some are even doing 15s :O Yeah 100p would only help but if you keep adding strings of 13s or 14s then 80 cell packs or 100 cell packs wont matter to much especially for heat
Can copper pipes be used to make busbars?
Yeah I dont see why you couldnt. I almost used some copper tube from water line for a fridg but had the 12g wire on hand.
I have a lot of new copper tubing left over from remodeling. Will I have to pound them flat or can I just use them as they are?
I was going to leave them in the tube form if I did it.
AveRage Joe yeeessssss!!! I’ll let you know how it comes out. Waiting for glass fuses to come in. Will do a video if it works out.
THANKS. 😁
Where do you get your batteries?
Mostly from a recycler right down the street!😲
hello love your vids who are the laptop giveaway winers
+Rowan parsons Thanks, oh ya almost forgot ;) ill do the drawing tonight or tomorrow!
ok
where is bumble bee?
BZZZ BZZZZ😆
I was doing this last night with stranded 10awg (I think), I was only making a little 12 cell in a 3s 4p config. this is the pack imgur.com/a/gr7Jg
There you go 👍 Did you tin the cells first, if so try adding a little less solder and it will keep the cells happy with less heat 😃
This is my 3rd time building this pack, and I build it mostly out of trash, I build it better every time! lol, I use it mostly for experimenting, Probably going to put it in a toy boat next. the cells are likely pretty annoyed with me anyway, hopefully I wont need to rebuild it again, need... pft, might do it again for the hell of at 3 in the morning in a few months.
Dude you almost cutted your head in that razor , th-cam.com/video/e0tjzgXnk0E/w-d-xo.html
I saw that in the video but I was further away then it looked lol :)