Why I Rejected My Software Engineering Offer At Amazon

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 81

  • @GrindLifter
    @GrindLifter 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +140

    This is my favourite jobless youtuber

    • @AK-vx4dy
      @AK-vx4dy 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      I don't think he is job less, with such skill he bills thinking not working 😀

    • @RobertElderSoftware
      @RobertElderSoftware  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +28

      This is my favourite comment.

  • @dave7244
    @dave7244 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +51

    4:21 So you get criticised for allegedly not following the wiki and when you do, you also get criticised. I love management like this.

    • @lolkthnxbai
      @lolkthnxbai 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Managers in a nutshell.

    • @kyleMcBurnett
      @kyleMcBurnett 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      uh huh. Follow the documentation, you're wrong, follow what people say, you're wrong. Do something original, you're super wrong. its just a job.

  • @Oysteims
    @Oysteims 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +58

    The employee turnover rate at big-tech companies is crazy, at 50% to 70% turnover rate. That is an absolutely insane number for highly skilled labour. When the average tenure is between 1.6 to 3 years, despite having the highest salaries and best benefits in the market (in the world), that is a symptom of a seriously unhealthy work culture and industry. It's also interesting to note that the median age at big tech is less than 30 years old.
    If I only gave you these statistics, and asked you to guess which industry it is, most people would probably guess the fast-food industry because that's how bad those numbers are. Unsurprisingly, Amazon is amongst the worst, alongside companies like Apple, Meta and Tesla.
    It seems to me from my "European perspective" that they just want a steady stream of naive worker-bees, fresh out of university, who can pass the leet-code interview, so they can work them to the bone for 18-36 months until the employee get's burnt out, dissolutioned with the industry and quits. The unfortunate thing is that this is slowly transpiring in all OECD countries.

    • @lolkthnxbai
      @lolkthnxbai 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Yup, young people with no major life commitments (kids or wife mostly) right out of school. Just do 2-4 years for the resume and move on. Now they can say they're former amazon/google/Facebook developer for their next job or project.

    • @juanperezmich
      @juanperezmich 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      " the highest salaries and best benefits in the market (in the world)", which it's all BS since you either 1) spent 85% of it on rent and just plain existing closer to work or 2) spent 45% of your day stuck in traffic Monday to Friday then avoid going anywhere because, well, traffic and living so far from anything you need to waste half a day getting anywhere. So, it's just selling your life for a kick in the bottoms once they have flailed you enough.

    • @Oysteims
      @Oysteims 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@juanperezmich That's the case for every major western city, the cost of living crisis is not unique to the US. You just get paid a whole lot less and have *no* stock compensation programs anywhere else. The total compensation for US tech workers is the best in the world compared to what you will get anywhere else for the same job.

  • @LambdaTechnology
    @LambdaTechnology 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    This was incredibly informative. Coming from Wall St for a decade, and then finally moving to opening my own tech co, your analysis of the work environment is exactly what we all know for big tech nowadays, but few speak about. In short, this vid “says the quiet part, out loud.”
    In sum, my assessment on your decision? Two words: well done. The rest of the world needs people like you. The big tech firms can churn and grind out 22-25 yr olds as much as they like… committing professional burnout runs on these people, with zero consequence.
    As for your bit regarding the stock options… I chuckled a bit coming from Wall St. These guys have the turnover rate as a well substantiated piece of data right under their thumb. And they know it. Wall St knows it and the big tech owners know it.
    And there’s an Actuarial Desk Employee somewhere who knows exactly what you just said… but he’s not doing what you just did… “speak the quiet part, out loud.”
    Well done 👍

  • @no_name4796
    @no_name4796 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +27

    well at least we know something which isn't your favorite thing

  • @agh0x01
    @agh0x01 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    You highlighted a couple of very interesting ideas, especially the point about risk on taking shortcuts and management ambiguity.

    • @ThomPorter74
      @ThomPorter74 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Yeah, this one is nasty, what a crap environment! That and sitting in a meeting 2 management levels up getting berated for something I hadn't even seen yet.

  • @brians7100
    @brians7100 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    this video gave me some ptsd from my last job. my new job is way better, mostly due to the smaller scale of the company. my previous job was at a fortune 50 company and it was reminiscent of your time at Amazon.

    • @johnsimon8457
      @johnsimon8457 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      That’s the word for it - PTSD - small impressions destroy your career

  • @oblivion.4974
    @oblivion.4974 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    Wow your experience at Amazon really stresses me out

  • @Jordan10704
    @Jordan10704 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I think it’s interesting your experience was very similar to mine when I first joined Amazon in the office in California. Fortunately the office in Colorado is much, much better and they emphasize social interactions and work life balance

  • @stevenmcphee6902
    @stevenmcphee6902 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

    This video as well as most of the comments on this thread or a treasure trove of what NOT to do in life. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot over and over and over again with bad decision decision-making. I too was a 37 year-old loser the only way I got out of it was recognizing that you can escape the rules of the game, even if you don’t like them. You gotta learn them, then you gotta play the game and bend those rules to your own benefit. That means doing things that you don’t like in a strategic fashion until you can afford not to do those things anymore.

  • @Dad-ij2qy
    @Dad-ij2qy 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    What you learned is that there are people who will
    not say "I don't know." when you ask them a question.
    Working with these people is not easy. (Especially
    if he or she is in your chain of command.) Sometimes
    you're better off just to ignore them, and look for
    answers elsewhere.

    • @samgould8567
      @samgould8567 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

      If they are in your chain of command, best to look for another stream of livable income elsewhere.

  • @NostraDavid2
    @NostraDavid2 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    I hear those stories and feel like a unicorn. My team is very supportive of each other, even if we don't always agree, we don't have micromanagement, sure our PO is lacking some technical information but he trusts the rest of the team to cover that. It's a job on a giant Corp that's owned by a government, so everything moves likes molasses - the move from our old hosting platform to K8S took 1.5 years too long. Oh, and people don't like Bash, for whatever reason 😢.
    We're moving to "The Cloud" 'soon' enough (I bet that's taking another year, at least, before we can even think of starting to move 😆)

    • @merridius2006
      @merridius2006 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      By the time you move to the cloud you will realize you actually want to move back to on premises

  • @nebularzz
    @nebularzz 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    This is my favourite thumbnail

  • @ssznajder
    @ssznajder 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    One thing I know I’m bad at is speed. Often I’m way to cautious even though usually the solution I think of first is the one I end up using. I think part of it is that I love the feeling of having a solution “in the bag,” so looking for other potentially better ones allows me to extend that feeling. So I could have learned a thing or two from Amazon.
    That being said, I don’t know if I could do ten years even if it meant millions.

  • @loc4725
    @loc4725 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    I've heard from others that Amazon isn't a great place to work as a software dev, so your experience isn't especially surprising.
    But that said I guess on the plus side at least none of your direct managers came from sales & marketing.

  • @mudi2000a
    @mudi2000a 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Fascinating. Of course , as an intern it’s maybe difficult but if my employer wouldn’t provide me with a machine to do the actual work I would just tell them sorry I can’t work like that the machine is too small. And I can t remember any employer that then wouldn’t give me a better one. From family company to corporation. And then AWS had the audacity to write in the review that you wouldn’t use an IDE if they didn’t provide you an appropriate workstation. What a shit show.

  • @foobar8894
    @foobar8894 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    If principles (leadership or otherwise) are on a piece of paper, they generally only exist on that paper and nowhere else. Or put differently, "If you need to repeat it that often, it probably isn't true."
    Proper leaders lead by example and shape culture that way. The need to put stuff on a piece of paper is marketing, and marketing always is only concerned with making you believe something that isn't true.

  • @dough-pizza
    @dough-pizza 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    Oh man! I get why seasoned Java developers would be triggered by seeing you code Java on a command line. They're trained for auto complete and pressing buttons and that too isn't their fault since Java as a language I find is barely usable without an IDE.
    Anyways you certainly seem to have taken a liking to Jeff Bezos with that hairstyle of yours, coincidence?

    • @BigMichael78
      @BigMichael78 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      No, I think he wants to be like Billy Corgan.

  • @jerichaux9219
    @jerichaux9219 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    8:59 Is that CLI rizz I hear?

  • @simonabunker
    @simonabunker 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Amazon is my favourite version of Severance.

  • @asdfasdfasdf12
    @asdfasdfasdf12 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    wow that performance reviews sound cruel. same with a developer machine with 4 GB RAM is really horrific

  • @deanbell5164
    @deanbell5164 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    An interesting insight, thank you.

  • @ThomPorter74
    @ThomPorter74 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    "...get every last requirement nailed down..." Umm.... that's a good thing? 🤣
    Definitely sounds like you made the right choice. That sounds like a horrible work environment!

  • @diegotejada55
    @diegotejada55 วันที่ผ่านมา

    20:26 not a single thing he said has changed in the last 10 years. (well, not as much in-person these days)
    I do find it kinda crazy he went through all this as an intern though, this sounds like the manager had the same level of expectations for him as they would for a 2yr+ full-time, which is just not ok

  • @ParthaSarathylink
    @ParthaSarathylink 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Most of the things you said still relevant when i worked few years back

  • @MontrealKid628
    @MontrealKid628 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I am a software engineer approaching retirement. The corporate world is full of nonsense. You have to put up with it if you want to make $. What you do outside of work is more important, friends and family. As you get older, you care less about your job. Should they fire/downsize you, by that time, you have accumulated enough that it doesn't matter as much. Everyone should work hard during their younger years and save for an easier life later on.

  • @rcoppy
    @rcoppy 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I was at Amazon briefly as a TVC. The glazed silence during standups is too real 😂 at a different faang now I feel so much safer (helps that am finally FTE)

  • @svetimfm
    @svetimfm 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Planning above all else, slow is fast. I’ll say that it’s true there should be a balance, but it’s also true that things are almost never over-planned in tech.
    Bro refusing an IDE is such a boss move - ignore the feedback, Chad on good sir 💪
    With love, from Seattle

  • @yusufsalk1136
    @yusufsalk1136 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    all on the command line :D

  • @Jordan10704
    @Jordan10704 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    As far as the IDE thing, could you have developed outside of the VM on the desktop and synced the source between the two? That’s a pretty common approach to solve that problem.

  • @svetimfm
    @svetimfm 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Planning above all else, slow is fast. I’ll say that it’s true there should be a balance, but it’s also true that things are almost never over-planned in tech.
    Bro refusing an IDE is such a boss move - ignore the feedback, Chad on good sir 💪

  • @porroapp
    @porroapp 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    This is why I avoid AWS 😂

  • @zildeos9858
    @zildeos9858 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is my favorite TH-cam channel.

  • @johnsimon8457
    @johnsimon8457 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    “I would have been a multi millionaire”
    Today that’ll get you a nice 1200ft condo within view of The Spheres with enough left over to pay the HOA fees

  • @SXZ-dev
    @SXZ-dev 11 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Amazon always sounded awful to me, by far the worst company in the whole FAANG thing and that's saying something because past the campuses being cool the rest of them aren't great either

  • @meanguitar
    @meanguitar 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Yeah they tried to recruit me but it seemed like the worst place on earth to work.

  • @JannisAdmek
    @JannisAdmek 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Amazon is my favorite company to reject.

  • @armancharan7537
    @armancharan7537 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    i’m so sorry that you had such a multitude of negative experiences. honestly, though, they’re tragically typical. especially, in the field of information technology, it seems. it’s a shame that you decided to capitulate to these people instead of rising above them. materially, you’d have a lot more influence in the world today if you’d just worked there and focused on winning the long game

  • @Quast
    @Quast 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    18:18 Mhmmmm yeah, I just love it when you have a superior like that....

  • @vilijanac
    @vilijanac 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It is hard be professional in software development.
    Every senior will not like you, and if deliver hate you,
    not see your code before the boss.

  • @AK-vx4dy
    @AK-vx4dy 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Good to you that you escaped such people 😀

  • @jonescity
    @jonescity 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Working at big tech sounds stressful and terrifying.

  • @palantyr
    @palantyr 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Great content.

  • @AK-vx4dy
    @AK-vx4dy 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    If other teams are diffrent then Amazon has very bad luck loosing oportunity to hire you...
    Sometimes millions are less valuable than sanity

  • @jerichaux9219
    @jerichaux9219 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Your coworker is my least favourite coworker!

  • @5ebastiancarlo5
    @5ebastiancarlo5 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Dear Robert, I want to share a perspective that differs from the majority of reactions to this video. While I understand yours and most people's frustration with major tech companies, I think it is important to remember a few things:
    First: A company, more so a major tech company, operates in a highly competitive space populated by other entities which lack any resemblance of the ethics which we humans posses due to our nature as a social species. Short of revolutionary musings, recognizing and accepting this landscape is essential for success in today's world; there seems to be no alternative.
    Second: It should not surprise you that a manager acts unethically or even illogically. The reason is that the manager is not just a person; they are, for better or worse, agents which embody the interests of the company. The company is, once again, a nonsensical entity. It is your job to understand this and act accordingly. You should also accept that the manager might not be the best person for the job, but they are the person who is there, and they were placed there by a (again, likely illogical) process, which must be respected.
    Third: It should come as no surprise that a company asks as much as possible from their employees, and that many employees comply, more so if the prospect of earning millions of dollars is on the table. This is the nature of the game. It is your task to be outwardly compliant, while inwardly doing what you think is best for you. That is, finding subtle ways to avoid the most egregious demands of the company.
    Fourth, and most importantly: Embracing these realities can alter your behavior in ways that are both conscious and subconscious. This will be noticed by your managers and some peers, which will give you entrance to a "secondary hierarchy" of the company which is not found on any org chart, a hierarchy which is quite flat and contains people all the way from interns to the CEO: That is, the network of people who are capable of putting their common sense below the company's interests. Being part of this group can lead to promotions and reduce your technical workload since you're contributing in a more significant, albeit different, way. The challenge lies in achieving this status.
    Having said all that, I wish you the best of luck in your entertainment/educational career, which is surely a more ethical and fulfilling path, where you're already making a significant impact.

    • @RobertElderSoftware
      @RobertElderSoftware  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      "Internalizing the previous facts will likely change your conscious and unconscious behavior. This will be noticed by your managers and some peers, which will give you entrance to a "secondary hierarchy" of the company"
      That's an interesting perspective. It brings to mind the phrase "If you want something done, give it to someone who is busy.". It certainly makes sense that if you allow yourself to become a victim of abuse and other people see this, then people will abuse you more. I think there's definitely a lot than can be said about developing a kind of 'secondary external communication style' that you separate from your internal thoughts in a corporate environment like this. Of course, this is kind of just a fancy way of describing 'office politics'.
      Although it's not surprising that a company can become unethical and heartless, I think it's not impossible for a company to become successful by at least maintaining bare minimum standards that will retain staff. I'd like to think that I did my part for society by voting with my feet.
      Some people feel the need to conform and to 'fit in' when confronted with a social hierarchy like this, but personally, I simply choose to not be a part of this hierarchy at all.

    • @foobar8894
      @foobar8894 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      "there seems to be no alternative."
      That's just a self fulfilling prophecy. But hey, "Welcome to the machine"
      Let's break it down:
      First: A company, also a major tech company, ultimately is just a collection of people doing things together. There really is no reason to not hold companies to the exact same standards you hold people. Behind every corporate decision is a human (or a group of humans) taking the decision. They are responsible for that. And there is a bigger group of humans going along with and executing on that decision, they too are responsible for that. There is nothing revolutionary about that. If anything, the whole idea that doing thing in 'a company' somehow shields you from personal responsibility is both revolutionary and pretty new. But yes, if you are willing to define 'success' as 'progress for me at the expense of others' not having to have ethics because you can hide behind 'the company' is really useful 🤐
      Second: The manager is just a person, see above. If they are acting unethical or illogical it's because they are acting in a selfish manner, nothing more, nothing less. (They may have been duped into believing that's a good thing, but still.)
      Third: A company does not ask anything. A human working at the company asks something. If that human (rightly or wrongly) believes they can make millions by coercing you into doing something they can't do themselves, that's not a justification for anything. It's just old fashioned exploitation.
      Fourth, and most importantly: Embracing these systems makes you part of the problem (at best, and complicit at worst). And yes, those in charge of the company will indeed appreciate this and reward you to an extend. But as little as possible and for as long as you are useful to them. You surely will never become part of the club, although they will hint at that possibility to keep you going. Carrot, stick and all that. Not being part of this group will lead to a better life for you and a better society for all. A big part of the challenge lies in not caring about 'status'.
      Don't get me wrong, I'm not even blaming you for seeing things this way. Loads of people do, it's pushed at us all the time. But please take a moment to think about who benefits most from you having this attitude. Is it really you who profits here?

    • @5ebastiancarlo5
      @5ebastiancarlo5 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@foobar8894 Hey, I appreciate your take, and it's clear you've put a lot of thought into this.
      Yes, a company is indeed a collection of individuals, but crucially, it's the investors at the top of the company who rule. They're a paradoxical group which we need for the economy to thrive, yet their interests often clash with broader societal needs. This is why I see them as necessary yet fundamentally at odds with most people's ethics.
      I don't aim for success at others' expense. Rather, my goal is to provide for my family and friends, a goal which pushes me to navigate the murky waters of office politics. I try to minimize the impact my actions might have on others, even if it's sometimes unavoidable.
      You mentioned being "duped" into certain beliefs. Yes, that's always a possibility, but I've come to my views through years of experience, not blind acceptance. I started with ideals similar to yours, but reality has a way of reshaping our philosophies.
      Regarding the system's rewards, I harbor no illusions of grandeur or joining some elite 'club.' As a wage worker, my expectations are grounded. It's about securing enough to support those I care about, not chasing status. Even if the system benefits more from my attitude than myself, it's a situation I'm willing to accept for the greater good of my personal circle.
      So, I see where you're coming from. I value the idealism, and damn, you might be totally right. But my perspective is rooted in a pragmatic approach to the current state of affairs. It's about finding a balance that works for me and mine, even within a system that's far from perfect.
      Take care.

    • @5ebastiancarlo5
      @5ebastiancarlo5 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@foobar8894 hey, I appreciate your take, and it's clear you've put a lot of thought into this.
      Yes, a company is a collection of individuals, but crucially, it's the investors who pump in the capital that rule. They're a paradoxical group we need for the economy to thrive, but their interests often clash with broader societal needs. This is why I see them as necessary yet fundamentally at odds with most people's ethics.
      I don't aim for success at others' expense. My goal is to provide for my close ones, a goal pursued by navigating the murky waters of office politics. I try to minimize the impact my actions might have on others, even if it's sometimes unavoidable.
      You mentioned being "duped" into certain beliefs. Yes, that's a possibility, but I've come to my views through years of experience, not blind acceptance. Sure, I started with ideals similar to yours, but reality has a way of reshaping our philosophies.
      Regarding the system's rewards, I harbor no illusions of grandeur or joining some elite club. As a wage worker, my expectations are grounded. It's about securing enough to support those I care about, not chasing status. Even if the system benefits more from my attitude, it's a situation I'm willing to accept for the greater good of my personal circle.
      So, while I see where you're coming from, and I value the idealism, my perspective is rooted in a pragmatic view of the current state of affairs. It's about finding a balance that works for me and my people, even within a system that's far from perfect.
      Take care.

    • @5ebastiancarlo5
      @5ebastiancarlo5 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@foobar8894 hey, I appreciate your take, and it's clear you've put a lot of thought into this.
      Yes, a company is a collection of individuals, but crucially, it's the investors who pump in the capital that rule. They're a paradoxical group we need for the economy to thrive, but their interests often clash with broader societal needs. This is why I see them as necessary yet fundamentally at odds with most people's ethics.
      I don't aim for success at others' expense. My goal is to provide for my close ones, a goal pursued by navigating the murky waters of office politics. I try to minimize the impact my actions might have on others, even if it's sometimes unavoidable.
      You mentioned being "duped" into certain beliefs. Yes, that's a possibility, but I've come to my views through years of experience, not blind acceptance. Sure, I started with ideals similar to yours, but reality has a way of reshaping our philosophies.
      Regarding the system's rewards, I harbor no illusions of grandeur or joining some elite club. As a wage worker, my expectations are grounded. It's about securing enough to support those I care about, not chasing status. Even if the system benefits more from my attitude, it's a situation I'm willing to accept for the greater good of my personal circle.
      So, while I see where you're coming from, and I value the idealism, my perspective is rooted in a pragmatic view of the current state of affairs. It's about finding a balance, even within a system that's far from perfect.
      Take care.

  • @seigneurdesbouseux6603
    @seigneurdesbouseux6603 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Having to produce code in a command line in one of the most advanced tech company in the world is ridiculous, did you complain about it ?
    your videos about your professionnal experience are trully depressing, looks like never saying no, never setting limits and having high expectations about others didn't serve you well

  • @vilijanac
    @vilijanac 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I am your manager, take ownership, code you produce, I am, working too. Work together?

  • @samarnagar9699
    @samarnagar9699 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Can i get an this is my favourite comment

  • @censoredeveryday3320
    @censoredeveryday3320 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Man, you caused you're own drama. I would have moved mountains to work at Amazon for the 401k and retirement match. Unsubbed

  • @greob
    @greob 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for sharing your experiences.