80% of your mixing is pointless
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2024
- So many details and decisions go into every mix - but what really matters?
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If It Matters to your listening Emotion and the way you yourself wants to hear things come Out , then IT Matters
The listener IS consuming your music Like MC Donalds burgers
They Just want to benefit their Ego
Others Producers will maybe listen cosely
But many Stars and music mayors they manipulate Others by saying that Here and there things IS wring or Not top Level
If ITS constructive and true critics then thats Something important and good but If the Intension IS to throw Stones in your way ITS bullshit
Jelousy and many Intensions IS played Back and displayed by musicians Ego so be carefull and Just Play the music in Front of people
If Theres Standard stereotype consumers Like your music ITS very good
A friend of Mine Always thinks when im saying so rtjing about the Sound and detail correction i want to say His Musik IS Not Professional , but thats Not , ITS Just elements i think can be brought to the highest quality
People listened to my Instrumentals month ago and years ago and they think ITS still on the Same Level
They start talking bullshit and you See them gloryfying a Person when coming Up with good music
But thats Not a reason to Talk bullshit about me or someone Else , If you confront them they dont mean IT Like this
I sort Out These people
They are Just Ego consumers , and they try to depress Others because they are living in the Same Level for 10 years
Whatever Happens around you or in the Internet you have to be in a Neutral point to understand IT
Fans and followers often dont understand If they Chose their Heros
They just follow the opinion and they cancle or they Hype
Eminem and 50 Cent as well as many Others IS using this to cut the Business of Others
Your download is a scam. E-mail for download? Dude, your download offer is pointless. And 8 trackers to this site. No, thanks.
@@neuntausendlux Also 80% of it is pointless according to this dude.
dude your channel is really killer man. i agree there's so much pointless information out there. it's important to make the mix for yourself and the LISTENER, and not worry so much about what sounds good to an engineer or producer. they often focus on things that literally no one care about
If your melody and chords are trash then it don't matter how good your mix is it's still always going to be trash. I have heard pop songs with what I consider to be terrible mixing mastering.
a wise guy told me "good mix or production almost always went unnoticed, it feels normal, but bad mix or production stinks even to the untrained ears".
"If the movie is easy to film then it's hard to watch"
One up!!
the only people in the world to whom music that comes across well doesn’t mean the same thing as music that sounds good are sound engineers.
This applies to everything. No one cares what good u do only the bad will get noticed.
It’s like cooking
On a slightly removed note - I spent years trying to perfect a live guitar sound, and during one sound check it sounded magnificent so I turned round to make a note of all the 19" rack settings, and of course I had pressed bypass!
Were you drunk
Bro. 😂
This is a meme among live audio people. Mostly with compressors. Also EQ. You're not a full grownup until you've tweaked a compressor in bypass.
@@yalu2 I’m a full grown up … And I’m compressed about it !!!
😆😆😆
Haha
Mix it until YOU are completely happy with.... You will probably be the only one who listens to it anyway.
good point
sad BUT
T R U E
Jokes on me: I’m never happy with a mix.
@@GlenESton Right??? I drive myself nuts for days till I get it right. Then 6 months later, I think... "that could be better" lol
@@TheRoseCityRockersSame here, but I think that just means we improve, and what was the gold standard for us 6 months ago is subpar now, which is actually a good thing
Yeah, I totally agree. A few years back, we co-produced a song for Pink that ended up as a B-side on a Pink-single. We did a rough production in our studio and sent what we thought was a very rough mix as a 128kbps MP3 to her label, expecting feedback. We never heard back from the label, but a few months later, that "crappy" MP3 was released worldwide. That’s when I realized that what we audio nerds obsess over, the average listener doesn’t really care about at all. My mixing confidence definitely improved after that! 😊
Great example!
What's the song?
OUCH, 128kbps mp3? Those telephone sounds (of 128bps) kinda haunted me.
" When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" -God on Futurama
You have to master all the complex stuff to make it look simple in the end.
If you mix it right then nobody will notice cause you mixed it right.
A big point of mixing is making things not stick out an be annoying or draw attention to certain things
Very true and he's also talking about production as well...
which is why usually the volume fader and if thats not enough, the eq and compressor will get you to the 80%.
@@Solanaar reverb is important too!
Exactly. Nobody outside of the mixing world can point out anything, including guitar sounds, EQ, compression etc. They don't even care or know what these are. Only thing that matters is the overall feel of the sound. It they can't point out anything that's odd about a mix it's actually a huge compliment, because that means the sound is balanced, easy to take in, radio ready etc.
@@lippi2171 if my music gets radio ready in this day, I've effed up
The whole point is that it's FELT.
Of course consumers aren't gonna know wtf is happening, but it will feel better to them than a mix that would be regarded by most as being worse.
Like come on this isn't some mystery. When we were new to this, we could compare a bad mix to a good one and it was BLATANT how different it was even though we had no idea what was happening.
So its more a matter of perspective. A listener hears an emotive whole, but the mixer males technical detail adjustments so the struggle faced is tying the two things together by taking a lot of steps back and squinting at the painting
You missed the part when he said that there is a standard for professional mixing, once you're above that standard, the differences don't matter anymore. He's not talking about shitty mixes, that's not the point of his arguments.
Rs It’s in the satisfaction of one’s own work ig the takeaway is to not beat yourself down whether this is the right mix for the song or not as long as you go based off of the rules, plus the rules you’ve ignored and mainly off feel and sound you’re good. If it feels good you’re good. That’s all ppl want, you can spend a week studying which clipper is the best for a drum or switch out the API EQ for an SSL one and ppl won’t care because they want the feeling you’re portraying not the subtle warmth from a transformer that comes from a decision you made on the fly trying to come up with an opinion on how to approach the song.
Interesting point if you consider the rise of the busted sub sound in rap. Like digitally clipped masters is now in *some contexts* the right production choice despite being profoundly frowned upon in other circles. That clipped sound is part of what makes people feel the music.
80/20% Ground Beef
was waiting for this one 😂
That’s 80% beef and 20% whatever was laying on the ground.
@@Tony-yp7okno 20% fat
FAX
I prefer 93/7.
an electrician's work can barely be seen, you can only see and interact with the lights, switches and the sockets. but whenever I went past a house that I worked on, I always remember the unseen masterpiece I did on that house. and that brings joy to my heart. it's up to the next electrician to discover and marvel over that beauty that's waiting for him. same mindset goes with my music production.
When I was a gigging guitar-player, I obsessed over pedals. I gigged a giant pedalboard. One night, the singers wife asked me after a show what I was doing with my feet onstage. I told her that I was turning my pedals on and off. She asked what pedals do. I told her that they change the sound of my guitar. She said, "Oh.....they *do* ?" Another night, my EVH half-stack stopped working. I finished the gig with a mic'ed Peavey 1x12 combo. Nobody could tell the difference. Huge lesson: Nobody cared. They were there to have a good time - not to hear boutique amps and pedalboards-of-doom. Lol !!!
I've had the same experience, over the years I have used tube and solid state and modelers and even my wife can't tell the difference
who cares if no one cares? make music you like how you want to make it. their opinions don't matter. i don't make music solely for other people. i make the art that resonates with me and if other people like it great. if they don't, it matters none
well if you had fun it's totally worth that for just you then - but I do agree it doesn't matter and oftentimes only the bigger picture matters. When we first had to use a complete backline on a contest (part of the rules for quick band exchange) although everyone could make some adjustments basically guitars were all one clean one distorted sound and the bass was straight in
we were super sceptical and quickly learned. No one cared that there weren't 20 nuances of drive on no on could tell what a bass fuzz pedal is for anyway. So we just played a pretty hassle free gig and left with that lesson
@@BH-fi1sb I've come to adopt this philosophy: If you can tell the difference, kudos to you! You've trained your ears well! But don't expect anybody else to care.
The only thing most people care about is general proficiency at playing _and_ singing catchy songs, ideally ones they know. And it's gotta be both: if noone sings, noone cares. Figuring out songs by ear also raises a few eybrows. On top of that, as long as the general sound is in the right ball park, the rest doesn't even seem to register with the average audience.
@@DonHalli Oh, trust me, I still care. I just try not to be paralyzed by the thought that I couldn't possibly play this live before nailing that technique perfectly. My previous standards have safely kept me off any stage whatsoever.
Most people aren't into fashion, but everyone can tell when someone is well dressed
Well said.
that analogy limps a bit.
if someone is well dressed, we cam see they look good (if something sounds good, people can hear it)
someone who knows that someone looks good doesnt necessarily understand what work went into creating the dress, and doesnt really care much most of the time. that doesnt make the process less important.
Most guys have no clue about what make up is, but we know when we see a pretty face 😅
@@MrMockigton That was the entire point they were trying to make. Most people don't know or care for the process of mixing or putting together a nice outfit, just the end result. But even an untrained ear can hear a really bad mix just like someone with no real fashion accumen can see when someone looks bummy. Not once did he say that detracts from the process or make it any less important, just that the average person doesn't care what the process is. But they certainly notice the difference when the process isn't there, e.g.; a person that looks bummy or a horrid mix. That analogy is perfect. 👌
But most people agree that high fashion looks unnatural and ugly. If you become too much of a connoisseur of something, you lose touch with the common human experience/reaction to something
over perfection sometimes can lead to imperfection
and at the same time it doesn't have to be perfect. complex feelings and emotions are lost in a "perfect" mix
nothing is perfect, a mix can be "perfected" forever, you just leave the mix at certain point of the infinite interpretations
That's not possible when you're dealing with gatekeepers. They want your mixes to their liking. Ain't no way around that.
Where can I buy this t-shirt?
@@WrvrUgoThrUR working on it but keep on trying to perfect it so might take a few centuries yet lol
Amen. People who talk most about snare compression are usually not the best songwriters. It is a vulnerable position to present new musical ideas and reveal something of yourself. Technical stuff is a safe zone.
So true. I remember working with this producer, and every time we were unsure about a little detail in sound, EQ, etc. his reply was, "It won't impact this album making it to the top 10 or not..."
@@DonHalli " If you do something for the love of it, then every detail is worth it. " Depends if you are doing it for the love of music or for the love of using FX plugins and mixing. If you do it for the art, the rest are more or less incosequential. Many producers are obsessed more than even pro mixers because they're basically more DAW nerds (always buying plugins and obsessed with minituae) and less about the groove and song...
Performance always rules and the complication of modern mixing is still correcting what shouldn't have been infront of the mic in the first place. That said I think listeners are actually award about things like the amount of bass, sheen, punch, atmosphere and the like - they aren't total idiots
@DonHalli i get what you're saying because I kindnof obsess over the details too. But that's not what he's saying. What he's saying is just because you care about it that way, doesn't mean everyone else will. It doesn't affect if people like the song or not.
@@AboveEmAllProduction lol, yeah right that's why Jordan put a heart on his comment. Seems like it's you who didn't get it...
@@AboveEmAllProduction boy you're one angry and frustrated dude... so agitated, can't even spell correctly... lol
Yep, I figured this out years ago. I played 3 different versions of a song to my wife and she couldn’t tell the difference between any of them 😂
HA!!
I think this is because when someone listens to a song, they only hear one version of it. It's like a song on the radio-you don’t have multiple versions to choose from, just one. You can’t compare it.
This is most likely a repeat … but it’s worth repeating 😉
1 - Mixing and mastering are the *last* stages of the music production cycle.
2 - What ultimately does matter is the performance captured well of a great song.
3 - Mixing is really about bringing cohesion amongst different parts to make a greater whole. Thus, you will either address technical issues or add character.
4 - The mixer will always be attentive to the individual elements. Everyone else just hears it in totality.
5 - Engineering is an analytical pursuit. Music, while having an analytical side, is mostly experienced emotionally and intuitively.
Buy my beats
I encourage everyone to embrace the suck and mix the living daylights out of your tracks. Let’s hear that kick you auditioned 100 kicks to find, that snare reverb you agonized over. Don’t release stuff you aren’t proud of, even if people “don’t notice” YOU notice and you have to live with that.
It all adds up! -Steve Porcaro
Idk, I'm just trying to find tutorial videos on mixing (so hard to find beginner ones that go into any detail), so I have never mixed anything, but I swear, just based on my experience in the "expensive headphone world", that even YOU don't notice many of the choices you make (as evidenced by comments above about how they would tweak a compressor as it was bypassed). Or if you do notice them, it may not actually sound "better" to you, you very easily could have just got the subconscious satisfaction of "I chose that" (again, just like with the bypassed compressor- you FEEL like you're making the sound "better" just cuz you're changing things).
Again, somewhat talking out of my blank, but I'm just basing this on other sound-related things where the strength of placebo can be veryyy strong (like how many "sound-myths" are there lol? I could list a ton).
Well said that. I think I may go a little overboard sometimes but it's much preferable to what this video seems to encourage. Not many are going to ever hear my music anyway, so I might as well do it "right" ;)
@@Vingul it’s your expression to the world, esoteric audio engineering concepts and all.
@@CarsonHoy hell yea, I’m finally starting to think it *actually* sounds good as well, lol.. though I’ve been happy enough with each step of the way (however frustrating and subpar it’s been at times, I always made sure to finish the track). Starting to get enough know-how, software and hardware to let loose a bit. Gonna do more freeform exploring after finishing «the current track»…
Not sure why I tell you this but there you go ;) iz cool. Fun to tweak sounds how you want them and arrange them into music.
"80% of the streams come from 20% of the artists" - On Spotify it's actually more like 99.4% of the streams come from 10% of the artists.
i released 10 albums make most of my money off one song so stupid
@@holliefitzzzi wonder what that one song is?
And pretty much all those 10% have bad and uninteresting music
And probably Spotify don't have permission of 99.9% of all artists in the platform to have their music on.
Lol! True!
This is part of the reason I release 3 tracks a week. Because I've had this data for a long time after my own happy accidents and others.
Tracks I've rushed in a couple of hours with only free plugins have done many millions and others I've obsessed over with UAD plugins did no numbers.
I've been fast to leave behind arguments over things that don't matter and it's why I don't work with others often because they are still stuck on the things that don't matter. Like which EQ or tape emulation is best .
I don't think 'pro standard' matters either because you are discounting how much major labels spend on marketing and also how much work a producer does (not the engineering) , the mix has to serve the song that is all.
Totally agree about the marketing, projection stuff. And it ain't just the labels, of course.
Agree with you, and love your channel, keep spreading wisdom !❤
There are two types of production and mixing decisions.
1. Those that make the production/mix better.
2. Those that make the production/mix different.
#1 is obviously important.
I find people spend most of their time stressing about #2 when literally nobody is ever going to know the difference.
Seeing the variety in mixes in the feature a few months ago of Bogren, Otero, Odeholhm, Middleton, etc. kind of shows how much mixing at a pro level is to taste. And some were better in some ways and less good in other, comparatively. Some of the mixes emphasised the emotions of strings, others made the vocals or drums drive musical impact, and so on
I’m a guitarist of 30+ years. I’ve explained this point a million times, nobody cares about your gear or how flashy your playing is. They care about how your music makes them feel. Stop obsessing over technical stuff & focus on writing. Great video
SO much truth in this. Some of the best music I think is purely vibe, circumstance and event. Did a certain medley connect with me at a particular point in time? Then I've got it on repeat!
Some of my favourite sounds nowa days is from artists and producers that mostly no one has even heard of, and probably not even considered "masters" at mixing and audio. Just as long as the song is audible and has a story to tell (harmonically, rhythmically or vocally), somebody out there will appreciate it.
Step 1 : Make a good melody and finish the song. Step 2 : Gain stage, Compress and Reverb. Step 3 : Add clipper to the Master BUS to cut the peaks and finish with ozone 11 .Congratulations you just completed your track ✨🎉
A good mix or production is icing on the cake. At the end it's all down to how good the song is
I am shocked when I go back and listen to some of my favs growing up how lacking in punch the mixes are. But you're right... It hits my ear as a little odd in today's context, but then I keep listening because they're still good songs.
my theory is people used to listen loud on a bigdecent Hifi so everything is done for inferior devices and less energetic volume levels. I notice thin older mixes are a lot clearer and less exhausting when absolutely cranked through speakers than a modern mix tuned for a Bluetooth speaker that's running at conversation volume
you think mixing is important and then you listen to early blues, jazz or even the early 80s post punk and realise that it IS not really
@@ArkansyaI think initially they can be off-putting though just because they sound different, but they definitely do grow on you if they are actually good songs.
Like first time I listened to Aftermath by The Rolling Stones I was like “eh, I don’t know”, just because it sounds kind of muddy compared to modern mixes, but after a few more listens I was loving it because most of the songs were really good.
So I think it’s important but it isn’t make or break, as long as the mix is “good enough” and the song is well written
@@Arkansya true with a lot of those but damn I wish I could hear the double bass more on early jazz because live small ensemble jazz doesn't sound like those records the bass is deep and all encompassing when I see it live. On records its inaudible.
There are two things that matter in music:
1. The overall song/vocal/melody.
2. The feeling that it communicates to the listener.
That feeling needs to be there in the core rhythm of the song but could be taken away from by a mixing problem. Don’t mess up the feeling.
Absolutely. It's kinda like( to me anyways) all these ppl putting out their metal instrumentals, with no vocals whatsoever. It's kinda corny. I simply cannot jam out to an instrumental with no vox. The only ppl that care about heavy guitar instrumentals are guitar players. Nobody else cares about guitar playing.
Great video. I think what you say is sort of half true.
The paradox is that if you are producing a mix for a popular artist, the very basic minimum will do. As long as the mix sounds like what the audience have heard before they are happy. Whereas, if you are mixing for a small fanbase of enthusiasts it's much more likely that your mix has to be absolutely brilliant.
Any song (regardless of mix quality or performance skill) accrues by default the kudos of being played on the radio/TV/game. It has the benefit of having passed a built in quality control. There, the mix just has to be good enough, especially if it's by a well known artist.
But if you are operating for a small group, and there's no-one to "approve" the product, then all you have is your own genius. I've had deep personal experience of this dichotomy.
The last part of the paradox is that when you make music for YOURSELF, every tiny decision in the mix will live with you, sometimes for years.
I'm in my seventh decade now, and I am quite skilled at letting go and trusting myself, but for decades I sweated over everything!
Good luck out there.
This is a great point. A good song is a good song, even recorded on a boombox in a bathroom.
For a few years I found myself less busy performing live and started producing my own stuff. This lead to learning how to mix, I was OBSESSED, watching as many videos one after the other about little touches, I’d tie myself in knots to the point I didn’t even know what I was hearing and what I wanted the end result to be!
I’ve become busy performing live again and my attention has shifted. Suddenly the time when I am mixing I can tell my mixes are better, I’ve stopped obsessing over little tweaks and just focusing on getting the right end product right so it just sounds like a good song! It’s so liberating.
It’s like that line Bruce Lee says in enter the dragon - “It's like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.”
Thanks for this!
One guy I know doesn't like his songs mixes because they have micro-timing issues
Micro-timing issues
so now we want to know: Why the double pair of NS10ish Speakers?
I think the most important aspect of a mix lays in the creative/artistic decisions that influence the vibe and feel of the song...more than the "sonic quality"
I was listening in the last days songs I loved just after highschool, and still love those records, yesterday went to the studio and while replacing some cables and adding new gear I was listeing to those records and I felt those mixes would be sonically better....but no, the project a vibe and feel that make them feel write and make me like the music
3:05 : "It's always about the song". nuff said.
well something that is pointless for sure... wait for it... " This Video "
if shiny clean mixes mattered that much, old school death metal wouldn't have caught on
Punk Rock, and Hip-Hop too.
Old school death metal will never catch on with the mainstream. It's too awful. Most people like shiny things.
Moral to the story: Quit driving yourself nuts with micro stuff in mixes and/or masters.
I finished mixing my band's debut album one month ago and I all I can say that I was so sick of it when I was sending final WAVs to mastering engineer haha. I treated it as a 'training field' for my producing and mixing skills (e.g. one song has three different mixes), and the whole process was stretched over 2.5 years (I wrote all the songs March -June 2022), so super burnout occured at the final stage. But all in all, I'm happy to drag it to the finish line. A really compelling and satysfying feeling :) Kinda like building a skyscraper all by yourself with your friends stopping by from to time to time and helping you with most important elements. And the view from the top is lovely, though you don't really want to stay inside these walls any minute longer :D
Congratulations
That's one of the problems
You can tweak forever.
@@thedevilsadvocate5210 Thanks! Art is never truly finished only abandoned, isn't it :)
wow. the timing of this video was PERFECT for me. I just got tasked with mixing 18 songs in the next four days and all I could think of was that it was impossible...I can safely mix two songs a day and prefer to just work on one a day, but 18 is quite the stretch. Now I'm actually excited to see how fast I can burst through these and still be "ok" with them when they go to mastering. Thanks for the best 7 minutes of my day so far!
Keep us posted, rooting for you dude!
Hey so were you able to complete it?
I trust it went well tho
I used to have a ton of plugins and little bit of this and that, but now I have one rule: whatever I produce, it must be playable on an orchestra, also. And that reduced my plugins and my editing. And the solo artist is always happy that when I hand over the midi and the musical sheets, s/he knows that s/he can make a tour with an orchestra and a band, if the album becomes big. This is how I end up with 8 stems. Cleaner, easier.
the fuck does that mean kobe bryant
He doesn't do post-glitch.
Nothing wrong with geeking out on gear and tweaking sounds, but in the end it's all about the song and the performance.
this is far too much of a balanced opinion for a youtube comment haha
even a toddler can spot a kick sound if it's not the right one
If no one has an alternative version of your track that has been mixed or mastered differently then there is no way of making a coherent or plausible comparison to it.
Your video title is so true. Typically mixing is done as needed. I started to notice this during some of my mixing adventures. There were quite a few that sounded fine without being heavily mixed. I know there are examples of songs that have totally insanely-complex mixes that do add value to those particular songs. However, there are quite a few songs that don't need that much tweaking. I suppose some people just mix for the sake of mixing.
I agree! I’ve been playing guitar and writing songs for 30 years, and lately I’ve been studying the mixing side. In most videos I watch here on TH-cam I can hardly hear a difference when people are A-B:ing the stuff they’re teaching. And if I can’t hear it, I’m pretty sure casual listeners won’t hear it either :)
This ^^^^
Supported myself financially as a pro musician for over 40 years. Aside from the basic mixing moves, and basic mastering steps, I don't hear any discernible difference when these producers/engineers make these subtle adjustments to "take your mix from amateur to pro" and these moves are supposed to be "make or break" for success.
You're correct: casual listeners i.e. 99% of the paying customers definitely do not hear those subtle changes.
Very true!
👍🏻
With notable exceptions - when one makes music in the vein of e.g. Pink Floyd or Tangerine Dream or Art Of Noise or Kraftwerk, the sounds chosen and the vibe given by the mix does make a HUGE difference... or if you're producing groundbreaking genius material like Prince (think Kiss, or When Doves Cry) or Hendrix - the sounds and the genius production, including using LESS sounds or tracks or effects or eirher instinctively or strategically leaving in supposed imperfections and unpllished parts, is part of their being groundbreaking.
With all due respect and as a rock lover and pop "appreciator", a Benny Blanco pop hit or Nickelback will never be even renotely groundbreaking - it's all pretty safe, bland, corporate friendly stuff.
🤷🏼♂️
Yet, as I said initially, I do agree in principle.
And yes, record labels, execs and A&Rs are often tone, sound, and lyric deaf, so a vocal 1 full bar off might easily.go released.
😉
I don't think that this should stop you from doing your best for your productions.
100% agree
Please make a part 2 to this fam, could listen to a rant about this forever honestly
Wow. I, too, am just realizing that the things that I obsess over aren't addressed in several of the songs that I love .
Songs that I write that I don't think are mixed and ready, repeatedly get positive compliments.
I'm glad I saw this, as I prepare for a week long writing and recording session.
When I was about 15 I've noticed that with my songs that I've sketched out in like an hour, people would complement me on those more than those that I've struggled to put together for weeks... but also for me that obsessive fine-tuning is the fun of it. I don't make my music to be on the radio, I make it to listen to it myself. That's why it matters that it's "perfect" - as in I won't notice the problems with it after I've mixed and rendered it.
Almost literally something I said to my wife the other day: all these "remasters" of songs I love - they are still just the songs I love - and often I like the remasters less because it's not how I fell in love with the songs in the first place.
exactly, that seems to almost never go over well
Ok boomers
*ahem Megadeth
@@Gigatless I mean there are albums from like 2 years ago getting remastered
So true. It’s all point of view. I remember hearing Barry Manilow say that so many of the songs he thought would be fillers were his hits and the songs he just knew would be huge hits weren’t. Same with recording, mixing and mastering. While recording my own music with no help from any pros, I have probably inadvertently made many mistakes and broken rules, but those same things I’ve done can probably be found on tons of professional albums, because they all sound drastically different.
Along time ago,while mixing live performances, I was reminded to 'not sweat the small stuff,and it's all small stuff'. Taking that to heart, I have always aimed to capture and reinforce the spirit of the performance and share it with the audience. It has proven to be a much more enjoyable task. A 57 on the kick? If it works for the song....what the hell, go for it.
Very good video, this is something I talk about a lot with my friends and colleagues. It is totally true that the mix doesn't matter at all, especially when we know that the average listener doesn't even listen to music on the best or flattest and most transparent frequency equipment to appreciate every detail. Some listen on $1 headphones they bought on the street and have all the EQ distorted and still can enjoy every song without problems.
What I want to contribute to this topic is something you mentioned about whether they pay attention to the mix, the sound selection, the snare, etc and really people in general don't. They accept the final product without questioning that decision making that perhaps for us as artists is an odyssey. For years I have always wondered why my producer friends asked me or gave me instructions on how X thing should sound or that Y thing should be in a certain way but when they listen to established artists that doesn't happen, they simply accept it and there is no in-depth analysis.
This is something that always caught my attention and in a certain way it also got me annoyed (and I'm not talking about good suggestions between common colleagues or logic, I mean that if I instead of for example Skrillex, had released that X song they would be analyzing it from head to toe. When being released by Sonny they simply pressed play and enjoyed it). The truth is that these are psychological and behavioral issues that are not very studied, it's crazy to listen to the music that we enjoyed as kids and find that they didn't sound as good as we remembered them.
Clearly this topic is a lesson for many, especially when it comes to dedicating hours and hours to a mix and getting stuck or not releasing a song because you think it doesn't sound quite right... We have to relax a little and enjoy it more, these small details are what matter.
A hug, Jordan
It's true that mixing is really just shaping the sounds to fit the mood. Most of the moves only matter if the song calls for it. A bit of low and hi passing, some saturation, taming of ugly frequencies, but most of all balance of the elements and dynamics of the arrangement which of course involve depth and spacing! Pretty cool to remember how rad bad sounds can be. Many of the records I loved as a teenager sound pretty bad, but the songs and energy rule. Was just listening to Nirvana's Incesticide which I still love, and wow there are some gnarly sounds in there, yet it's perfect
Isn't that a bit peculiar though? Like...as if the bad sounds don't sound bad to you, but there's a perception it's bad (general opinion?). Perhaps those songs just plain sounded good to you, I don't think there's any reason to justify it. If you listen to it, you subjectively like it, which means it's good to you? If not you're weird.
Thats because its a club and if ur in that club they can make sure its gonna be a hit
I saw that same interview when it first came out and that was the one part that stuck out to me the most!
Mixing is such a general word though. If you do not declutter mixes and and have clarity, your song will be forgotten. Muddy and muffled mixes have a hard time competing.
100%!! Once I created my custom template of standard busses and honed in on my fav plugins I know very well, my mixes are done way faster which leaves me time to have fun at the end. Practice obviously helps but picking out my top 15 or so plugins to get most of the work done has really sped up my process. I have my "go to" plugins: 4 channel strips, 2 compressors, 4 delays, 3 reverbs, etc and I just get it done. If after the initial mix I think something needs a different sound, then I dive into my vault and see what I have to give a track a different flavor.
The dead and devine snare sounds in accordance to the time when it was put out. The snare sounds good lol
Great episode! This dawned on me when I was making a favorite songs playlist and noticed almost non of the songs had a mix I would have considered as a reference.
Pro mixers are pro mixers because of their clientele and tracks they are provided. You can’t polish a turd and neither can they. You know them for their hits, not for their stepping stones it took to get there or the side work they do for doctors with money.
Thank you. These are great points 👍🏼
Perfection is unattainable. Excellence is doable.
Everyone takes something different from the sound and message of the work.
What is the goal? What are the priorities of the listener? What’s most important to them?
First to say that this is more needed than many could understand
After I add a mixing plugin to a channel, I close my eyes and click the bypass button really fast without counting so I don't know if it's bypassed or not. Then I open my eyes and if I guessed wrong about whether it was bypassed or not, I take out the plugin.
YES! I recently produced my first for 4 songs ever yay but there was a moment in the track that i was bothered by beat following my vocal melodies to perfectly and I told my BeatMaker that and he was so confused cause to him it was going to sound completely off but that part was still not doing what i wanted to. Fast forward showed some people the song and NO ONE noticed anything weird and it proved something that i was already thinking, if the music feels good no one gives a shit, really well produced songs may get people saying it sounds like trash simply because they didn’t like how it made them feel. This whole experience w my songs just made me realize how I gotta trust myself and what I like and that it’s not that deep. I’m really glad you’re talking about these especially for the producers that still think like the one i worked with, have fun and nothing more ✌🏻
My favorite part about mixing tutorials is:
Did you heard that? You probably not, it's very subtle, it should be more felt that heard...
And I like, sure bro, you definitely not wasted half of an hour to make nothing burger...
yeah i think this mantra of doing miniscule things stems from the ideology that you shouldnt completely reshape your sound in the mix rather than getting it right from the getgo. but usually that should lead to "do small things you know are important" rather than "do this small thing to every single track because my tutorial said so"
I think what you said at about 2:00 is exactly right. I can spend stupid amounts of time looking for “magic”, when the magic is the tune & the vocal performance. The Beatles (sorry to go to that) didn’t have the gear nor computers to make their songs “perfect” but the TUNES & VOCALS are what is great. Had we been given different final versions we’d have loved those too bc we love the TUNES. Thank you for this!
This is absolutely true, some of my favourite albums ever sound like something straight out of some kid's bedroom with no real knowledge of Mixing or Mastering and I still choose to listen to those before 99% of the (well mixed) records that are put out nowadays
That is the lesson there. Priority is make a stable mix, then details/fine-tuning will be added later based on how much more time you have before the deadline.
Great message. Part of the problem might be if you mix quickly, people sometimes think to themselves that it can't be a master piece, it only took me three hours! But if i slave over it for weeks, than i can say i worked hard on it, therefore it can be deemed as perfect.
I just love creating:]
i think to me the important things to keep in mind are context and balance - what does the music WANT to sound like, and how can you square that with your artistic intent and more importantly the client's
Dude, you are dealing with sentient music? Does it tell you like "Oh come on, please HPF that, it's making me feel bloated"
I remember hearing NIN 'The downward Spiral' for the first time and was completely blown away by the mix. It had a profound influence on me that still informs what i do now. The mix engineers worked tirelessly on it, obsessing over every tiny detail. I work for months on mixes i do for myself (obviously i cant do this with commercial work ) and i believe in giving it the time it needs to be the best it can be.
This is so true. As producers, it's easy to forget that 90% of the people who listen to music have no idea what goes into making a track sound the way it does. I've noticed that it's more that producers/engineers are trying to impress other producers/engineers (who are a tiny portion of the people who listen to music). If the mix is decently balanced, the song is in key, and there aren't too many frequencies clashing, it really just comes down to how good and catchy the song is. It's a complete waste of time and energy obsessing over the technical stuff.
I truly needed to hear this...i ask my wife if she notices the difference even when i bypass. She said she definitely noticed the difference. Months later i ask her to be honest because i wont hurt my feels. She said, babe, i honestly dont hear the differences that you're pointing out. She said what she notices with my music is how it made her feel or what mood it put her in. Lesson: people simply want to enjoy the vibe of the song, they're not critically listening to a song while dancing and drinking alcohol. I now finish mixes faster😂
The thing that I’m most confused about is the feel. Snapping everything to the grid sucks the life out, but leaving a tad more room for the mix to breathe can lead to amateur hour sloppiness. I don’t know what the threshold is between the two.
Go with whatever feels gooood
Almost 15 years ago I’ve recorded mixed and mastered an album of traditional Cretan music in a studio I was working back then, because of budget constraints I had only one day to mix and master 11 songs, I hated the result and the fact I couldn’t change it, I haven’t listened it since then. I was away from Crete living in Athens ( Greece) for almost a decade but now I live in a village Crete at the same area where those musicians are and those type of songs are from.
I ve met a Cretan Lyra player in the village and yesterday when we were playing together, he told me that this album is one of his favourite albums in this genre and that he loves how it sounds. He loves how much the sound fits the style and how much it has influenced the whole genre, the whole conversation started after he played one song from it and I told him that I have recorded it and mixed it, he was excited to meet the person behind on of his favourite albums
Im so grateful to have watched this! Eye opener!
Amatuer DJ here, i used to spend weeks picking records out and putting them in order, a week pracitcing/running a mix, then a few days fiddling with it in audacity before uploading it to youtube. Now, i just hit livestream, play a bunch of random, usually recently purchased tunes and thats it, its up, its out, its done and the result in terms of views and enjoyment ia drastically more.
"We believe in Nothing, Lebowski!"
LOL, best comment.
Thank you. I so strongly agree that a great song can be done any way you liike and it's still a great song. Your radio mix story says it all.
This is why I went into live sound. Mainly just getting the doors open on time is the hardest part. If you can get it to sound good, even better 😂
You've just hit the nail on the head, nobody cares what the kick drum sounds like by the time it's streamed in crappy audio down to your mobile phone, and yet producers are spending thousands on Atmos setups. Totally nuts! 🤔
side note, DEAD AND DIVINE. so mf underrated go and listen to any of those albums.... such gold. super cool knowing you worked with them
Very good commentary! So true in so many aspects of life. Thanks for providing such a good point.
Best mixing video ,advice, FACTS iv seen so far.
There is a lot of unbelievably well mixed music out there. Some of the music on youtube ads alone is quite brilliantly engineered. But do listeners always expect that degree of mixing perfection? No, they don't. It's only in recent years that musicians have been duped into thinking that the production is more important than the music itself. I also believe that this deception is just another form of gatekeep.
At parties I would sometimes insert my own music into the mix & no one knew the difference. No one cared. it's only when MIP's come along that you learn how "deficient" your tracks are.
In spite of all this being true, we should still put as much effort as we can into our mixes & continue to improve our craft.
Well, depends what you're aiming for, if you just want commercial success then yea. But when I work on my songs, I make them the way I want and I don't care if they get 10 listens or 10million, I just wanna enjoy listening to that song over and over again. And the most important of mixing for me is not making a technically perfect mix but a mix that has a soul
Professional pride is what it is.
It's like that in every field. Most people won't notice details and yet guys will still spend a ton of time tweaking things that go unnoticed.
i once got a friend tell me " what is that printer sound?" "oh that's the bass" and i was like damn...
I think this applies if you're making music for the majority of people who listen to music pretty casually and tend to mainly listen to whatever is on the radio, or whatever pops up on Spotify while they're working or commuting. If you're making music in a more niche scene or for people who are hugely into music they'll probably notice if something is out of time or the drums sound bad
In a way you are correct, but the mixing may be subliminally like the film end credits -- so much credit goes to what goes on behind the scenes and off camera. To be a benevolent contrarian:
1.) An "obsessive" standard is healthy as a long term industry development. Splitting hairs about which EQ plugin to use, no... but the correct snare drum sound itself - maybe.
2.) Bad mixes will be noticed. Good mixes are thankless. Great mixes (top 1%) may create acclaimed interviews. In short: no one noticing may be a good thing.
Otherwise we should be using ModTracker to write, mix, and master radio hits instead of using DAWs. You can write catchy stuff in a tracker, just ask the legions of fans who appreciate the artistry of old video game tunes (but they eventually get a more updated remix when they are covered).
The 80/20 rule ( or 'the Pareto principle') is a creative analysis tool and not rooted in actual mathematics. It's primarily used in economics and engineering as a comparative starting point. You can't just apply it to any group and then consider the results accurate, as it doesn't work like that.
lol this should be pinned
To me, there are fairly general applicable contexts for my own "80% rule". Firstly, 80% is good enough. Secondly, if 80% is achieved with 20%...then, I could just as well do 20% of that 20% to get 80% of the 80%, that's still pretty good. Eventually it's practically effortless!
I always say if the song has no soul, its mix quality is rather secondary. Thank you for reminding us that we shouldn't get stuck on the mix.
good mixers have good clients, good clients have good recording engineers. cla for example, can just pull faders up and have a kickass sound. thats reality, especially due to the song quality, harmonys, tightness etc. the songwriting, arrangement and recording is everything.
You don't make perfect mixes to impress the general public, you make them to impress other musicians and producers so you build a reputation among your peers
100% true ! Another think that it’s much easier to mix good sound. I believe it’s hard to brake nickel back raw sound. Good sounds in means good mix out
Best videos on TH-cam about music for sure
I watched about 20% of this video to get 80% of the message.