Having a deck that has 50% removal spells and still be able to get ahead on board is absolutely bad game design. Removal is just too cheap and there are too many of those cheap spells in standard. Wizards needs to stop. Magic is supposed to be a game of chess with interesting board states and combat. Its gotten to were the only thing that matters is who goes first and draws the most removal.
Oh you nailed it! Just type in "Destroy" in MTG Arena with filtering Black as the color and Standard as the format. It's NUTS. And that's not even the Exile cards!
I feel like removal is so good because mono red mice exists. i just played a paper tournament at an end of the year store tournament where more than half of the decks were mono red mice. top 3 were mono red mice decks who had the perfect hands of heart fire hero, manifold mouse, and monstrous rages. I actually scrapped my way into 4th as golgari ramp (ish) and the only reason why i didn't die instantly was because I was lucky enough to have anoint with affliction and the 1 mana exile card from duskmourn that also requires a sacrifice of a creature or enchantment in my opening hand.
As I've replied ot other folks, those are both results of the same problems. When removal is exceptional (instant, cheap, unconditional) the creatures have to be equally better or creatures never have a chance. So both of those things end up pushing other stuff out of the meta.
I really like the method "go for the throat" went with creating more limited removal. Instead of destroy some specific type of thing only. It only removes one option. So now artifact creatures are a little more potent against premium removal. So they done have to make them have hexproof as much. They can focus their mechanics elsewhere. I'd like to see more like that.
It rubs me the wrong way when extensive cheap removal can easily get rid of expensive creatures, at instant speed no less. It really limits the design space of large creatures a lot. What's the point of casting Infinite God of all Existence when it dies to 2 mana Slap on the Cheeks?
I'm having a little success with creatures like Axebane Ferox and Predator Ooze. Having Innkeepers Talent giving out Ward to everything is also helpful.
Sunfall gives the user too much control over the board in so many scenarios imo. It’s one thing to exile all creatures, but the token just feels so unnecessary.
White especially has too much removal. I'd prefer that white focused a bit more on specific strengths rather than having more of everything. The devs over-countered the balance there.
I wish arena would crank up that 550 gold for 50 deal. I've been playing for months and seen it twice. One of them is when you pointed it out so much appreciated on that.
removal is so prevalent because standard is so huge. Every set needs efficient removal for limited, and with 13-19 sets in standard, that adds up to a ton of removal.
It was already leaning that way before we got to 3 year Standard. But also, with WotC knowing that Standard is in a 3 year rotation, they can always scale it back per set. It can still exist in ways that work for the limited environment, it just doesn't need to be top tier competitive level, which we've been getting in every set.
"what's your plan to win?" well I have a stack of like 100 different cards here... so it's hard to have a specific "plan" persay but I imagine somewhere in there exists a wincon...
Removals would be ok if there was a rule how many can you put in deck. Im tired of seeing black/blue decks where there is like no creature (or maybe 4 in whole deck) and there are like 30 removals and counterspells. Also they were the answer for out-of-control aggro decks. Seems like the problem is Wotc doesnt know how to balance game, or just doesnt care. Fuckin mouse dealing 15dmg turn 2, this is some high level bullshit.
The game is still balanced. We've seen that at multiple levels. But at the *lower* levels of play, things don't work out the same way. Some of that is due to player skill issues and such. That's the hard part to solve with most any game.
@@graemescott5282yea people only pack 12 removal spells cus 1-2 mana creatures can kill you turn 3-4. If there was less removal then people would complain about constantly getting ran over.
Yeah I won't say there can't be overall issues with power creep but I will say most times I see the words 'power creep' they actually translate to 'this card is powerful against decks/archetypes *I* like' as opposed to it being universally overpowered.
been playing play queue since i have more fun there. ranked queue is boring as it ends up being the same few decks and in order to win, you have to play a certain way, it sort of pigeon holes you into playing certain decks, which means less diversity, which means less fun
My hot take: The more Online ways to play Wizards enables, the more at risk paper magic and magic as a whole will be. Just look at what happened to Standard. Pioneer is next and with rumors of an online client for commander, it too will follow. I agreed a lot with you in this video, but I also disagreed with you on a couple of these, and some of them viscerally. 1) Need to be more formats besides commander. You said No. I disagree because i believe Commander is overrated and this 4-player formulation of MTG doesn't work well. If you want the game to end, are you actually having fun? If it was fun, you would want it to last as long as possible imo. 1v1 casual formats were the bread and butter for magic for 15-20 years and it was casual magic and it was fun. Commander feels like waiting in line simulator and with the variance in power level which can't be helped you aren't even rewarded, and I'm often made to feel guilty when I win in spectacular fashion. it's a 2.5/10 format. 2) Board wipes shouldn't be played if you can't win. You agreed. You said you want the game to end to play again or leave. Playing a board wipe to survive cripples your opponents which does give you an advantage to help you win. It extends the game, but I thought you liked playing commander. It feels bad to get board wiped but so do getting your spell countered and your creature destroyed which can both also extend the game especially if they were win-cons. 3) Universes beyond was the best thing for the game ever. You hesitantly agreed. this is the one I viscerally disagreed with. I see no need for magic to continue to grow in that way and bring in droves of new players. It is clearly being done for corporate profits. It is alienating longtime fans, the new fans will be ephemeral ,so who is left? It is strangling their golden goose. They went back on their word AGAIN, reinforcing that WotC cannot be trusted. I can't tell you how many "from now on" statements they've made that they've gone back on. (They said UB will never be standard legal. We gave them an inch and they took a mile. if you give a mouse a cookie etc etc). I joked with my friend that one day I will tap my Big mac to gain 3 life one day. Magic is becoming another casualty of capitalism because of UB and it will cause it to die with a whimper one day. You said every game is doing crossovers. Ok well what if you put literal Spongebob as the final boss of Elden Ring. I vehemently disagree.
I've responded to other folks about this already, but ultimately, it's all a result of the same problem. As removal gets better (instant speed, cheap, unconditional), the creatures have to be made equally better. Both of those things push out the midrange-y creatures/spells. So the majority becomes hyper aggro or hardcore control/ramp. It gets harder for *true* midrange stuff to hang around the top consistently.
These are relatively lukewarm takes. When did "tropes" become a problem? Here's a hot take: Your Arena collection will be worthless in 5 years when this Commander client comes out. Another hot take: Notice all the takes about Commander in this video? Commander is a plague upon Magic and is ultiimately what ruined it, not rotations or UB. Maybe Commander should just be gone instead of adding another format?
Commander is not the problem. If it 's not commander it would just be something else. Casual palyers make up the *overwhelming* majority of players in nearly every game. Feel free to hop in the Discord (linked in the description) if you want to discuss it further. TH-cam comments are back for bakcka nd forth discussions.
Boros Auras, Gruul Aggro and Jeskai Convoke are some of the best decks in standard....most of the top decks in standard are creature based decks...if anything the removal isn't good enough.
I would argue that's all of a result of the same problem. You have to keep making creatures more efficient and more juiced or they can't ever have an impact when you have instant speed, cheap, largely unconditional removal. Both of those elements squeeze out a lot of the midsized creatures and spells.
@@PowrDragn When has this not been the case in competitive standard ? Big creatures that don't have an ETB or haste/hexproof have been bad for a very long time. I've played in standard formats with better removal with much worse creatures than the current standard.
...Again...these are all part of the same problem. Folks are just pointing fingers one way or the other. The truth is they just need to scale down or make the midrange-y stuff both more resistant and more impactful. As i stated in teh video, it's just the direction the pendulum is swinging right now.
Having a deck that has 50% removal spells and still be able to get ahead on board is absolutely bad game design. Removal is just too cheap and there are too many of those cheap spells in standard. Wizards needs to stop.
Magic is supposed to be a game of chess with interesting board states and combat. Its gotten to were the only thing that matters is who goes first and draws the most removal.
Oh you nailed it! Just type in "Destroy" in MTG Arena with filtering Black as the color and Standard as the format. It's NUTS. And that's not even the Exile cards!
I feel like removal is so good because mono red mice exists. i just played a paper tournament at an end of the year store tournament where more than half of the decks were mono red mice. top 3 were mono red mice decks who had the perfect hands of heart fire hero, manifold mouse, and monstrous rages. I actually scrapped my way into 4th as golgari ramp (ish) and the only reason why i didn't die instantly was because I was lucky enough to have anoint with affliction and the 1 mana exile card from duskmourn that also requires a sacrifice of a creature or enchantment in my opening hand.
As I've replied ot other folks, those are both results of the same problems. When removal is exceptional (instant, cheap, unconditional) the creatures have to be equally better or creatures never have a chance. So both of those things end up pushing other stuff out of the meta.
I really like the method "go for the throat" went with creating more limited removal.
Instead of destroy some specific type of thing only. It only removes one option.
So now artifact creatures are a little more potent against premium removal. So they done have to make them have hexproof as much. They can focus their mechanics elsewhere.
I'd like to see more like that.
I think part of the issue is that a lot of the removal is instant speed, cheap, and largely unconditional.
Go for throat not effecting artifact creatures since they can’t breathe is still my favorite lore flavor
It rubs me the wrong way when extensive cheap removal can easily get rid of expensive creatures, at instant speed no less. It really limits the design space of large creatures a lot. What's the point of casting Infinite God of all Existence when it dies to 2 mana Slap on the Cheeks?
I've played waaaay too many games (Mono-Green) against people who have 12 (+) removal cards in their deck.
@@georgeblair3894 it’s time for Thrun.
I'm having a little success with creatures like Axebane Ferox and Predator Ooze. Having Innkeepers Talent giving out Ward to everything is also helpful.
Yes!!! It's so ....just dumb
@@ReyaadawnMTGhahahah!!!
Only Removal that is too good, is Sunfall, hate that stupid ass card
I know, I love to use it but hate when it plays against me.
Sunfall gives the user too much control over the board in so many scenarios imo. It’s one thing to exile all creatures, but the token just feels so unnecessary.
White especially has too much removal. I'd prefer that white focused a bit more on specific strengths rather than having more of everything. The devs over-countered the balance there.
"Death to removal." Boardwipe and exile the reason I play MTG Arena. But we hate the discard decks. It is our only weakness. 😂
I wish arena would crank up that 550 gold for 50 deal. I've been playing for months and seen it twice. One of them is when you pointed it out so much appreciated on that.
I will be incredibly happy when Cut Down is not in Standard anymore.
Would've been fine if it were a Sorcery.
I like on arena that they do have a way to still have flavor text on the cards, I miss it too but understand why it isn’t there anymore
removal is so prevalent because standard is so huge. Every set needs efficient removal for limited, and with 13-19 sets in standard, that adds up to a ton of removal.
It was already leaning that way before we got to 3 year Standard. But also, with WotC knowing that Standard is in a 3 year rotation, they can always scale it back per set. It can still exist in ways that work for the limited environment, it just doesn't need to be top tier competitive level, which we've been getting in every set.
"what's your plan to win?"
well I have a stack of like 100 different cards here... so it's hard to have a specific "plan" persay but I imagine somewhere in there exists a wincon...
I play a discard removal exile black deck... and i ironically hate it when i face a discard removal exile black deck 😂
Imagine thinking removal is too good when you can die on turn 3 from aggro decks. In. Standard.
It's all part of the same problem.
For a moment you could die before your turn 2 with laylane.
9:18 - Come play Oathbreaker if you're disheartened by Commander currently. it's a fantastic casual, multiplayer format
Oathbreaker is actually the opposite of what I want from Commander. I get why some people enjoy it, but it's definitely not my jam.
@ that’s super interesting because it’s my favorite multiplayer format nowadays. what don’t you like about it?
Removals would be ok if there was a rule how many can you put in deck. Im tired of seeing black/blue decks where there is like no creature (or maybe 4 in whole deck) and there are like 30 removals and counterspells.
Also they were the answer for out-of-control aggro decks. Seems like the problem is Wotc doesnt know how to balance game, or just doesnt care. Fuckin mouse dealing 15dmg turn 2, this is some high level bullshit.
The game is still balanced. We've seen that at multiple levels. But at the *lower* levels of play, things don't work out the same way. Some of that is due to player skill issues and such. That's the hard part to solve with most any game.
Removal is too good.... Mouse dealing 15 dmg on turn 2 ....pretty hard for both of these things to be true.
@@graemescott5282yea people only pack 12 removal spells cus 1-2 mana creatures can kill you turn 3-4. If there was less removal then people would complain about constantly getting ran over.
Yeah I won't say there can't be overall issues with power creep but I will say most times I see the words 'power creep' they actually translate to 'this card is powerful against decks/archetypes *I* like' as opposed to it being universally overpowered.
Yeah, this is often true. Same folks that say a limited format is bad when it's one they don't win many in. 😉
been playing play queue since i have more fun there. ranked queue is boring as it ends up being the same few decks and in order to win, you have to play a certain way, it sort of pigeon holes you into playing certain decks, which means less diversity, which means less fun
I agree with your agreements.
My hot take: The more Online ways to play Wizards enables, the more at risk paper magic and magic as a whole will be. Just look at what happened to Standard. Pioneer is next and with rumors of an online client for commander, it too will follow.
I agreed a lot with you in this video, but I also disagreed with you on a couple of these, and some of them viscerally.
1) Need to be more formats besides commander. You said No. I disagree because i believe Commander is overrated and this 4-player formulation of MTG doesn't work well. If you want the game to end, are you actually having fun? If it was fun, you would want it to last as long as possible imo. 1v1 casual formats were the bread and butter for magic for 15-20 years and it was casual magic and it was fun. Commander feels like waiting in line simulator and with the variance in power level which can't be helped you aren't even rewarded, and I'm often made to feel guilty when I win in spectacular fashion. it's a 2.5/10 format.
2) Board wipes shouldn't be played if you can't win. You agreed. You said you want the game to end to play again or leave. Playing a board wipe to survive cripples your opponents which does give you an advantage to help you win. It extends the game, but I thought you liked playing commander. It feels bad to get board wiped but so do getting your spell countered and your creature destroyed which can both also extend the game especially if they were win-cons.
3) Universes beyond was the best thing for the game ever. You hesitantly agreed. this is the one I viscerally disagreed with. I see no need for magic to continue to grow in that way and bring in droves of new players. It is clearly being done for corporate profits. It is alienating longtime fans, the new fans will be ephemeral ,so who is left? It is strangling their golden goose. They went back on their word AGAIN, reinforcing that WotC cannot be trusted. I can't tell you how many "from now on" statements they've made that they've gone back on. (They said UB will never be standard legal. We gave them an inch and they took a mile. if you give a mouse a cookie etc etc). I joked with my friend that one day I will tap my Big mac to gain 3 life one day. Magic is becoming another casualty of capitalism because of UB and it will cause it to die with a whimper one day. You said every game is doing crossovers. Ok well what if you put literal Spongebob as the final boss of Elden Ring. I vehemently disagree.
Aggro rules standard already, do people want no control or midrange strategies?
I've responded to other folks about this already, but ultimately, it's all a result of the same problem. As removal gets better (instant speed, cheap, unconditional), the creatures have to be made equally better. Both of those things push out the midrange-y creatures/spells. So the majority becomes hyper aggro or hardcore control/ramp. It gets harder for *true* midrange stuff to hang around the top consistently.
These are relatively lukewarm takes. When did "tropes" become a problem? Here's a hot take: Your Arena collection will be worthless in 5 years when this Commander client comes out. Another hot take: Notice all the takes about Commander in this video? Commander is a plague upon Magic and is ultiimately what ruined it, not rotations or UB. Maybe Commander should just be gone instead of adding another format?
Commander is not the problem. If it 's not commander it would just be something else. Casual palyers make up the *overwhelming* majority of players in nearly every game. Feel free to hop in the Discord (linked in the description) if you want to discuss it further. TH-cam comments are back for bakcka nd forth discussions.
Boros Auras, Gruul Aggro and Jeskai Convoke are some of the best decks in standard....most of the top decks in standard are creature based decks...if anything the removal isn't good enough.
I would argue that's all of a result of the same problem. You have to keep making creatures more efficient and more juiced or they can't ever have an impact when you have instant speed, cheap, largely unconditional removal. Both of those elements squeeze out a lot of the midsized creatures and spells.
@@PowrDragn When has this not been the case in competitive standard ? Big creatures that don't have an ETB or haste/hexproof have been bad for a very long time. I've played in standard formats with better removal with much worse creatures than the current standard.
One mana buff spells with an insane number of effects are what shouldn’t exist
...Again...these are all part of the same problem. Folks are just pointing fingers one way or the other. The truth is they just need to scale down or make the midrange-y stuff both more resistant and more impactful. As i stated in teh video, it's just the direction the pendulum is swinging right now.