Surprised how weak she is at pulling. Struggles with even adding a tiny bit of weight on pullups while still climbing 9A, I think this goes to show finger strength really is the centerpiece of climbing
Climbing outdoors, I have never been forced to rely solely on my two arms (or one arm) to pull my full body weight up to get to the next hold. In my opinion, resistance, technique and knowing yourself are the centerpieces of climbing
Because her footwork and technique are so good. If you’re really strong you can brute force your way up stuff to a certain extent, if you’re not you have to rely solely on technique. It’s probably a bit of a feedback loop, her technique in so good she doesn’t get strong at pulling, and because she isn’t as strong more she can’t rely on it so her technique has to improve so much more as she climbs higher grades.
Is percentage of height a good way to measure the hip mobility? Isn't that affected by your lower body to upper body ratio? If you have very long legs but a short upper body, you might get a better score than the other way around?
If you were to do it using the same scheme but based only on the leg length you'd have demonstrated an alternate way to calculate 100(2*sine(angle_between_legs / 2)), which probably isn't the intent. Note that the measure also is not linear--it is just a benchmark.
Its a 'good' way to measure because its quick and simple. We are always careful to keep assessments as simple as possible, where possible, so that they are accessible and low burden to the athlete. You are totally correct that ratios will change the score. Though as a coach doing these assessments we take notes if necessary and can do further tests if we feel its important to exercise programming.
@@lifeguylifeworld Around climbing it's not so much the shorter levers being an advantage but more about being able to use shorter legs to make use of foot positions and get into drop knees that others don't seem to be able to make work. I'm sure there are other moves that are made harder with short legs, but it affects the climber less outdoors than it would indoors.
Are you sure split aganst the wall is a good way to test hip flexibility? If you can do the splits like Hazel, the mechanics of the split changes a lot and it isnt even the same split type that Angus did, since she can just sit and freely anteriorly rotate the pelvis. The split against the wall doesnt allow for anterior rotation of the pelvis and thus many people will be stopped by their hip anatomy, not adductor flexibility.
Hi Sokrates, yes you are totally right about the mechanics changing. The shot of Hazel moving up against the wall (seated) is not typically how we take the measurement. Standard practice is to do this from standing (as seen with Angus). Some will be limited by hip anatomy in this position but we use this position regardless because it intuitively tells us more about flexibility and mobility of the hip while on 'the wall'. If we find anatomy to be the limiting factor, it is of course still worthwhile doing this test. However for most it won't be anatomy limiting them. I have still seen very flexible climbers drop into a full splits in this position, many can still achieve enough anterior pelvic tilt by dropping their hips away from the wall and keeping their chest into the wall. We could get more complicated in this part of the assessment but often the basics teach us the most and then if we need to dive deeper we can do so later.
@@LatticeTraining there could also be the point that most people climb in overhangs of some degree and that in that scenario your chest and hips are almost never so close to the wall that it would be equivalent of trying to do the splits against a vertical wall. So would free splits not be better because of this reason.
Interesting that Hazel's Crit Force score is higher than Angus's and his Max Force is higher than hers when normalized for body weight. Is the Crit Force measurement a way of testing "Power Endurance"?
Critical force is better defined as an exercise threshold, above which energy needs to be provided by anaerobic energy systems. What this shows, is that Hazel is able to provide a greater relative contribution of energy via the aerobic pathway. Which is very beneficial because this are very efficient at not producing biproducts that cause fatigue or disrupt muscle function. Exactly what we want to see in an elite level route climber :)
@@LatticeTraining Sorry to bother you one more time but, out of curiosity, What's the average CF benchmark expected for men climbing 9a? How good is a CF around 90% of BW? Thanks a lot!
Ha ha yeah it’s all relative. What I absolutely love about this girl is she’s so real. She’s not bothered about starving herself to get her weight right down or training to be real jacked and super strong, nah, she just thinks I’m good enough to climb without all that and if I’m not I’ll just get better, she’s happy climbing as she is and enjoying it.
I think Tom said that one arm hanging the lattice rung is around 8B boulder strength, due to it being a harder hold than most 20mm's. Compared to the incut bm2000 edge often referred to as the benchmark for 8A. Can't apply skill if you can't hold a hold...can make a hold easier to hold if you're more skillful. Swings and roundabouts.
@@Miura.Powers Just that you might have thought it was as hard as the bm2000 and had created ideas of how strong that makes her fingers, but incorrectly because it's actually a harder edge. But you knew this anyway! so never mind haha.
LOL - I am amused at how much these Lattice tests vary between climbing "stars". Basically, XY climbing star comes in and says what his expectations are ... if he/she says V11-V12, like Magnus, he'll get a V13 score. If a less humble celeb says V17, the test would show V15-V16 ... Sometimes the feet touch the ground (at the finger strength test) other times not, etc - Smells like many PhDs hang on it -)
i wonder: do these results represents a generell rules of gender differences? because this is also what i and i guess a lot of other climbers know: women are more flexible and men stronger. critical force is highly related to bodyweight... its funny when people that climb 9a can max pull-up my bodyweight. xD
I made a video on gender differences in climbing and will do more! It is true that, on average, women are more flexible (especially in the hips which is very important in climbing) and men have bigger muscle fibers. The question is "how much"? And "are these differences enough to predict level of performance"?
Awesome!! So you think the critical force plate is better than current methods of testing? More typical two arm/one arm max hang and then %of that for repeater duration.
We think the critical force method is currently one of the best assessment tool for climbers available. Using an all-out test we can determinef exercise thresholds and capacities in just 4 minutes. Using an MVC pull we can determine max strength in a matter of minutes. Its far more time efficient and removes the inaccuracies of using pulley systems. Critical force also alludes the ration of energy systems an athlete uses where as time-to-failure tests indicate performance or overall capacity but not which energy systems are the primary contributor. Though the main drawback is needing to use advanced equipment and data processing. Hopefully as we develop these methods they become easier and more accessible :)
@@LatticeTraining Given they mostly climb routes, how important do you think Critical Force is in that timeframe for someone who only boulders? I would think critical force is important just over a shorter time frame.
@@davidbecker54 I am not sure I understand. CF is a threshold measured by intensity e.g. Kg or %BW. The length of the test will be the same for every style of climbing. The more aerobic contribution the higher the intensity CF sits at.
@@LatticeTraining Ah, maybe I'm misunderstanding the CF test a bit. Based on the definition on your site, CF is intensity versus time. I think we would expect a boulderer to still potentially test at the same intensity as a route climber, but the route climber might be able to sustain it for a longer period of time. Is this correct? If so, do you often see a massive drop-off of intensity much sooner for boulderers?
@@davidbecker54 I think you are looking at the definition for CF Curve. This will include the component of W' which is a capacity that better suits 'intensity vs time'. In this case we do see it (W') drop off quicker for Boulderers but may a greater volume overall. This is linked to there anaerobic capacity or their ability to perform above the aerobic intensity zone. If you are interested I would recommend reading our research paper from 2020. It should shed some light in the details of CF and W'. - www.researchgate.net/publication/343601001_An_All-Out_Test_to_Determine_Finger_Flexor_Critical_Force_in_Rock_Climbers
Surprised how weak she is at pulling. Struggles with even adding a tiny bit of weight on pullups while still climbing 9A, I think this goes to show finger strength really is the centerpiece of climbing
Climbing outdoors, I have never been forced to rely solely on my two arms (or one arm) to pull my full body weight up to get to the next hold. In my opinion, resistance, technique and knowing yourself are the centerpieces of climbing
Because her footwork and technique are so good. If you’re really strong you can brute force your way up stuff to a certain extent, if you’re not you have to rely solely on technique. It’s probably a bit of a feedback loop, her technique in so good she doesn’t get strong at pulling, and because she isn’t as strong more she can’t rely on it so her technique has to improve so much more as she climbs higher grades.
Hazel is quite strong. She's holding quite a bit of muscle which allows her to just power through. Amazing climber.
Is percentage of height a good way to measure the hip mobility? Isn't that affected by your lower body to upper body ratio? If you have very long legs but a short upper body, you might get a better score than the other way around?
Fair point. I've noticed (outside anyway) that short legs and longer torso can actually be a genetic advantage.
If you were to do it using the same scheme but based only on the leg length you'd have demonstrated an alternate way to calculate 100(2*sine(angle_between_legs / 2)), which probably isn't the intent. Note that the measure also is not linear--it is just a benchmark.
@@TuvofLuv yes 100%. coming from an olympic weightlifting background, having a long torso and short limbs 100% helps with hip mobility
Its a 'good' way to measure because its quick and simple. We are always careful to keep assessments as simple as possible, where possible, so that they are accessible and low burden to the athlete. You are totally correct that ratios will change the score. Though as a coach doing these assessments we take notes if necessary and can do further tests if we feel its important to exercise programming.
@@lifeguylifeworld Around climbing it's not so much the shorter levers being an advantage but more about being able to use shorter legs to make use of foot positions and get into drop knees that others don't seem to be able to make work. I'm sure there are other moves that are made harder with short legs, but it affects the climber less outdoors than it would indoors.
Are you sure split aganst the wall is a good way to test hip flexibility? If you can do the splits like Hazel, the mechanics of the split changes a lot and it isnt even the same split type that Angus did, since she can just sit and freely anteriorly rotate the pelvis. The split against the wall doesnt allow for anterior rotation of the pelvis and thus many people will be stopped by their hip anatomy, not adductor flexibility.
E.g. If I do the splits freely, I am about 5-10 cm off the ground, since I can rotate pelvis and hips freely. Against the wall I am 1 meter off.
what would you suggest?
Hi Sokrates, yes you are totally right about the mechanics changing. The shot of Hazel moving up against the wall (seated) is not typically how we take the measurement. Standard practice is to do this from standing (as seen with Angus). Some will be limited by hip anatomy in this position but we use this position regardless because it intuitively tells us more about flexibility and mobility of the hip while on 'the wall'. If we find anatomy to be the limiting factor, it is of course still worthwhile doing this test. However for most it won't be anatomy limiting them. I have still seen very flexible climbers drop into a full splits in this position, many can still achieve enough anterior pelvic tilt by dropping their hips away from the wall and keeping their chest into the wall. We could get more complicated in this part of the assessment but often the basics teach us the most and then if we need to dive deeper we can do so later.
@@LatticeTraining there could also be the point that most people climb in overhangs of some degree and that in that scenario your chest and hips are almost never so close to the wall that it would be equivalent of trying to do the splits against a vertical wall. So would free splits not be better because of this reason.
Interesting that Hazel's Crit Force score is higher than Angus's and his Max Force is higher than hers when normalized for body weight. Is the Crit Force measurement a way of testing "Power Endurance"?
They covered that in one of the videos they did with Magnus Midtbø
Critical force is better defined as an exercise threshold, above which energy needs to be provided by anaerobic energy systems. What this shows, is that Hazel is able to provide a greater relative contribution of energy via the aerobic pathway. Which is very beneficial because this are very efficient at not producing biproducts that cause fatigue or disrupt muscle function. Exactly what we want to see in an elite level route climber :)
@@LatticeTraining Sorry to bother you one more time but, out of curiosity,
What's the average CF benchmark expected for men climbing 9a?
How good is a CF around 90% of BW?
Thanks a lot!
Heys guys, out of curiosity,
What's the average CF benchmark expected for men climbing 9a?
How good is a CF around 90% of BW?
Thanks a lot!
I tried a route she warmed up on. She is very strong.
Ha ha yeah it’s all relative. What I absolutely love about this girl is she’s so real. She’s not bothered about starving herself to get her weight right down or training to be real jacked and super strong, nah, she just thinks I’m good enough to climb without all that and if I’m not I’ll just get better, she’s happy climbing as she is and enjoying it.
Does that mean, Hazel can't one arm hang on the Lattice Rung? Damn, i have to step up my "skill-game".
I think Tom said that one arm hanging the lattice rung is around 8B boulder strength, due to it being a harder hold than most 20mm's. Compared to the incut bm2000 edge often referred to as the benchmark for 8A. Can't apply skill if you can't hold a hold...can make a hold easier to hold if you're more skillful. Swings and roundabouts.
@@MythAvatar Tom is right. I could hang from the BM2000 Edge 2 arm with around 7,5kg more, but i don't see what it has to do with my question ;)
@@Miura.Powers Just that you might have thought it was as hard as the bm2000 and had created ideas of how strong that makes her fingers, but incorrectly because it's actually a harder edge. But you knew this anyway! so never mind haha.
LOL - I am amused at how much these Lattice tests vary between climbing "stars". Basically, XY climbing star comes in and says what his expectations are ... if he/she says V11-V12, like Magnus, he'll get a V13 score. If a less humble celeb says V17, the test would show V15-V16 ... Sometimes the feet touch the ground (at the finger strength test) other times not, etc - Smells like many PhDs hang on it -)
I think I see a crack trainer prototype of some sort hanging there at 5.53 or so... Is this a sneak peak?
Also nice video.
109%?
What’s this?
9% over her height
Angus is a cut of beef.. it's like being named Benedict..
Damn, Hazel is so flexible and (was) so unexpectedly... weak (at pulling). How much did she improve before March?
Check the interview with her that was posted to the teamBMC channel. She talks about it there.
They're always dressed as if it's 15°C in the Lattice HQ
they keep their rooms that temperature for test consistency
No they dont! (i think? hahahah)
Product placement probably plus you want to keep your muscles warm or you’ll get an injury
your sofa looks quite cold - everybody in daunjackets
Who did a pull up with +90kg? what
I assume the person who did it was probably quite heavy.
@@babsds0 74kg there and I can pull +86kg. But maybe 74kg is considered as "heavy" for climber, I don't really know
@@KarlJean_B you can do a pull-up with 86kg attached? That’s seriously impressive
i wonder: do these results represents a generell rules of gender differences? because this is also what i and i guess a lot of other climbers know: women are more flexible and men stronger. critical force is highly related to bodyweight...
its funny when people that climb 9a can max pull-up my bodyweight. xD
I made a video on gender differences in climbing and will do more! It is true that, on average, women are more flexible (especially in the hips which is very important in climbing) and men have bigger muscle fibers. The question is "how much"? And "are these differences enough to predict level of performance"?
Jeezus, four minutes of repeaters sounds like agony.
„If you want to get fitter start trad climbing.“ Hahah I am gonna.
Awesome!! So you think the critical force plate is better than current methods of testing? More typical two arm/one arm max hang and then %of that for repeater duration.
We think the critical force method is currently one of the best assessment tool for climbers available. Using an all-out test we can determinef exercise thresholds and capacities in just 4 minutes. Using an MVC pull we can determine max strength in a matter of minutes. Its far more time efficient and removes the inaccuracies of using pulley systems. Critical force also alludes the ration of energy systems an athlete uses where as time-to-failure tests indicate performance or overall capacity but not which energy systems are the primary contributor. Though the main drawback is needing to use advanced equipment and data processing. Hopefully as we develop these methods they become easier and more accessible :)
@@LatticeTraining Given they mostly climb routes, how important do you think Critical Force is in that timeframe for someone who only boulders? I would think critical force is important just over a shorter time frame.
@@davidbecker54 I am not sure I understand. CF is a threshold measured by intensity e.g. Kg or %BW. The length of the test will be the same for every style of climbing. The more aerobic contribution the higher the intensity CF sits at.
@@LatticeTraining Ah, maybe I'm misunderstanding the CF test a bit. Based on the definition on your site, CF is intensity versus time. I think we would expect a boulderer to still potentially test at the same intensity as a route climber, but the route climber might be able to sustain it for a longer period of time. Is this correct? If so, do you often see a massive drop-off of intensity much sooner for boulderers?
@@davidbecker54 I think you are looking at the definition for CF Curve. This will include the component of W' which is a capacity that better suits 'intensity vs time'. In this case we do see it (W') drop off quicker for Boulderers but may a greater volume overall. This is linked to there anaerobic capacity or their ability to perform above the aerobic intensity zone. If you are interested I would recommend reading our research paper from 2020. It should shed some light in the details of CF and W'. - www.researchgate.net/publication/343601001_An_All-Out_Test_to_Determine_Finger_Flexor_Critical_Force_in_Rock_Climbers
First
Hey guys, is the critical force estimatd on 20 minutes? thx
This test of critical force is an all-out test. They work at maximum effort for 4 minutes. Many will reach a plateau in less than 3 minutes.
@@LatticeTraining you didn't show rhe result of it
00:39 Damn I've never felt so jealous of a wall before.