I used lead solder at one time and could not get it to work UNTIL I got some rosin flux paste. Once I lightly brushed the flux on the surface, it flowed with ease.
Hahahah, my first reaction when you mentioned lead-free solder, I was like why would you ever want to use that? It is total crap! But then you said the same thing :-) Merci
Remember to put the anchor on the foot of whoever thought lead free was a good idea using handcuffs, then throw him/her overboard. Give them a knife, if they want to save themselves, they can chop off their foot! Oh I am evil :-))
I've used that type of copper foil tape to make antennas! I made a two-element bow-tie antenna for my TV, and a dual-band fan dipole for 2m/70cm for my handheld - both using plastic laminated sheets. I didn't try soldering. I used small nuts and bolts to connect the coax. It was much easier and provided better physical support. SWR for 2m/70cm was decent - about 1.5 or better on both bands. Pretty cool!
I used to use Aluminium foil tape that Alarm system engineers used for protecting windows, it was easy to make a square element with using the stick on foil terminations. No soldering needed.
If you need to use lead-free solder be sure everything you want to solder is very clean, then smear solder flux on everything before you try to solder. It does help. Did you try bending the elements toward the coax to improve the SWR? It should act just like an inverted V. I've read an article on an actual J-pole made of metal tape stuck to a window. It worked just like one made of copper tubing.
I have made a high UHF helical beam antenna (RHCP) using tape like this on a paper roll. It was a winter project requiring a little gain and a lot of fun :-) learning about helical beam antenna construction.
You calculated the dimensions for free space and the glass has a certain dielectric constant which probably resulted in you having to shorten the antenna elements to raise the resonant frequency.
Hi Gil, as an electronics engineer I work with lead free solder often. It requires attention to work well. The most important is that lead free solder has a narrow temperature window in which it works well and it is lower than with solder containing lead, more like 260C where leaded solder works better at 350C. If you go above 260C with lead free it burns and doesn’t stick. And it ruins the tip. Clean your solder tip, wet is with a big drop of leaded solder if you still have some to recover the tip. If the tip looks nice and shiny again, solder with lead free at no more than 260-280C. You can buy tiny tins containing a solid kind of paste in which you can stick your tip to recover it. I have it called Tip activator. Handy to have when your tip needs some TLC!
@@RadioPrepper Yes I know. That’s because your tip is burned. You need shiny fresh tin on the tip to get the solder to melt. And once your tip is fine again (I hope you can revive it at all) you will notice that it works reasonable at lower temperature. Although leaded solder is still much more convenient. I fully agree on that. Lead free is best for automated well controlled soldering machines.
Just don’t be tempted to crank up the temperature if it doesn’t melt, stay at the low side. And for myself I prefer a bigger tip so you get better heat transfer at lower temperatures.
I made a 70cm Moxon with 1/4" copper tape on a piece of cardboard from the back of a notepad. It is zip tied to a small wood dowel, and is in my office so I can hit the repeater from there. Can't do it on the rubber duck.
I remember a stealth antenna for scanners made with foil tape , it had a horizontal piece with three or four virtical pieces of different lengths Yagi style , these were wrapped around a piece of drain pipe and then the assembly was put inside a larger diameter drain pipe with a top cap and a bottom cap with a hole and a piece of plastic mesh at the bottom to keep out insects and let condensation out ,this was then fixed to an outside wall with drain pipe wall clips
Shiny, metallic duct tape works can be used for this also. I made a j-pole of the duct tape stuck to a mirror about 30 years ago. It worked great for several years. Just make sure you check it with an ohmmeter to be sure it is conductive (most duct tapes are not).
In reference to your mentioned Yagi I built one from your calculations page attached 2 MTRS long in two sections of brush(broom handle) that screw together.Steel for elements and a 259 socket in a metal box....let's just say using my Chinese motorbike intercom set the directional distance is astonishing.Thanks for your posts. UK user
Bonjour Gil - great idea! I would say that you needed to shorten the antenna length for resonance in the 2m band because of the glass. I have a lot of experience with making wire vertical antennas on fiberglass or PVC supports, and always have to shorten them well below the theoretical free space length to make them resonate a particular frequency. The adjacent dielectric material, be it glass or plastic, makes the antenna longer electrically. One never knows how much to shorten it by, but you have to go through the process of tuning the antenna manually as you did. The standard free space formula 468/F for determining the half-wavelength is a starting point, but always gives too long a length for the actual antenna as in this case when a dielectric support material is so close. The glass may also absorb some of the rf as well, but not much.
Nice Gil. I have used that copper tape for a number of antenna projects - I use the wide 10cm copper tape, taped to a fibreglass mast to give a broad band vertical antenna. I have used the wide tape strapped to a hola-hoop for a magnetic loop antenna. For your vertical dipole, you should have the elements in a V shape - about 120 degree angle to drop the impedance closer to 50 ohms and give you a much better SWR
I used some alarm tape used to detect glass breakage to make a dipole for uhf to put on a celebrity radio commenters home office. First I determined the window was not coated with metallic film. He had a plastic grid in the window to imitate a pane glass window. So I was able to hide the antenna and feedline behind the plastic grid. The grid helped hold the feedline at right angles. I Used about 25 watts and received an excellent noise free signal used for several years. It was almost totally invisible which was good for aesthetic reasons.
bamboo, balsa wood Yagi and fold it up with the copper tape stuck to it and away you go portable to the top of a hill and the antenna weighs nothing. Edit: Good idea using the tape, I used it for making ground planes for an antenna that went through a roof at the ridge. It worked very well, used four bits of tape as a ground plane stuck the the inside of the roof. Nice video. I have used a lot of things to get round someone living in a flat. It was the days of CB, so you can imaging how big the antennas were. We even used a curtain rail cut end insulated (plastic) in the middle (Brass plated) it worked well, though it was horizontal it still got him talking to his mates and it was spot on for DX. Brilliant idea using the tape.
Your soldering iron carbon build up is what's making your life super difficult. Try a tip tinning compound. That with a brass wool soldering sponge helped remove all the carbon from my tip and it made a huge difference, even if I used lead free solder. Don't fall into the trap of sanding or eroding the tip material, you just need to clean the carbon off. It takes a while but I saved my tip and it works well now.
This works great, with this tape I was able to make a full wave VHF Lo antenna in my attic. Further on, I was able to add directors with some cardboard. Finally I made a huge reflector behind this massive antenna array.
This could be the answer for many coach built motorhome users too! You don't want to drill the body, plus it's plastic. Only other place is the bike rack for mounting. Loving this idea 👍
Great product for /P collapsible antennas. VHF\UHF\SHF LPDA on a roll of paper, You only need to strip 2 cm of the backing to mount it Gil (easier to remove).
Hehehe... not a bad idea at all. And it seems that I haven't forgot all the French language I've learned in school... isually I remember it when I get stuck in the Paris Airport for more than 4 hours ))) I think we could even turn it into some sort of copper tubing if there is none to build an antenna... and stick it to a thin PVC pipe or wood. And I guess the possibilities are endless ))) 73 have an amazing week.
Thank you for sharing such an extraordinary idea! A number of antenna designs already known and tested might be reconsidered now. Even if not achieving minimal SWR possible, such constructions may be estheticly looking and fun to build.
Consider taping it on the outside. The UV filters and whatever coatings that glass have are a serius RF screen. My particular case is with a full size J-pole antenna inside the room, i can barely use the 70cm band. However on the outside I can hit the repeater with 2.5W with a 5cm rubber ducky. So the glass is killing the J-pole.
I've not tested the electrical characteristics of the "conductive adhesive" copper foil tape... however, that material does exist if you didn't know. Amazes me how you can even wrap aluminum foil tape around wood and make antenna elements that work well. That's like using the non-conductive adhesive copper foil tape that I'm guessing works even better. However, just wanted to note that there is conductive adhesive copper foil tape too that might save on soldering requirements if the electrical characteristics are suitable.
Does the Kester flux help with the soldering performance? I usually tin/solder each side then solder together... not all at one time. Also, prior to solder use the Kester flux pen or flux on the surfaces prior to soldering. That's my experience... though yes... not so fun to work with. Amazes me how even only a difference in flux can effect soldering performance.
@@RadioPrepper I have some Kester #186 Flux Pens, that came with a solar cell DIY kit, that are expired and the one that wasn't kept in the fridge like the others still seems to work well. Not sure if freezing helps... though keeping in the fridge does from what I've read. I keep in a ziplock bag.
Probably a good idea to have anyway in a ham's toolkit but as emergency antenna also an option. Wondering if i can make a 4meter antenna on a old peace of bicarbonate i have in the shed.
Thank you so much! This is something I plan on buying, you never know when SHTF and you need an antenna! I suppose the shield and conductors could be taped as well!
@@RadioPrepper I was thinking of a folded dipole. Still, your VNA is only measuring VSWR vs frequency. If you just trim it so VSWR looks good at a desired frequency, you no longer have a resonant antenna for the desired frequency.
Hi Gil. Yes, lead free solder is something I always avoid - I tried it only once! The copper tape is very good. I have made a few antennas using this tape. Wrapping it round 4mm diameter glass fibre rod which is then covered with heatshrink makes an effective and robust whip type antenna. Also, I gave wrapped it around a plastic hula-hoop to make a very effective mag loop. Because of the RF skin effect, I suspect that this thin tape stuck to a plastic tube gives similar performance to a copper tube.
“There’s snow on the mountains, but I can’t go to the mountains...” (probably also caused by lead free solder too). I agree, lead-free solder is awful stuff.
Life is too short for lead free solder. In my experience, one of the best things about leaded solder is how well it desolders when you have to repair something.
Nice project (minus the annoying solder)! This tape is also commonly used in guitar shielding. Not sure if it is different but the backing is conductive.
Nice idea!! The problem with swr and some losses is not in the tape but with the the glass. It has a high quantity of lead. Sticking the tape to a plexiglass strip would give you a better swr. It's also advisable to get the feed points of the elements closer together.
The first thing that came to mind when I saw the width of the tape was. eddy current. Ordinary antenna and antenna wire have a high "fineness ratio" = small diameter compared to length and thus less area span-wise to 'wander' sideways. I would expect that it would be influenced a lot by nearby conductive objects like wires, or even the human body. Try waving your arm in the vicinity of the tape antenna and watch the SWR . just a guess.
Back in the early 90's while working on the GM 'Backlight' program to design antennas on the rear window glass of GM cars we used copper tape to mock up antennas, worked really well! Fun fact: Detroit Greenfield Road area has broadcast signal strength as hi as 1,000,000 uV/meter, this was the test area for the program! GM radios performed poorly in that environment at the time! There was even cross-band suppression by 2 FM stations into the AM band at 590Khz where the GM radio goes silent even though there was a station there!
It's great stuff, perfect for making all sorts of things, you can use it to make filters for UHF/Microwave, you can shield projects with it, make antennas, even make power connections
You could make a helical antenna by wrapping it around a carton tube. Also, there is a TH-camr who wraps aluminium foil strips around a hula hoop and makes a magloop like that ;-)
Dear Gil, I suppose your window frame is PVC type. If so there is a pretty nice metal frame inside and it "kills" your improvised antenna. This tape antenna will work as a normal dipole if you have a wooden frame and no metal parts embedded in it. For sake of the science you can play with a piece of plywood or PVC with a certain size and stick the type to it but keep it out of the window frame.
It was wonderful to hear you speaking in French. I just began studying French, using Duolinguo. My goal? Traveler’s level French, in time for a May ‘22 trip. On ham radio, I am enjoying your videos. I am considering the QPR facet of the hobby. Thank you for all! 73 de David AE4LH
Another use for this stuff besides making PCB tracks, ground planes, and shielding. Look at the big box hobby stores in the stained glass area for different sizes.
I use lead solder whenever possible. The only place I don't is when a customer needs to keep something ROHS compliant. Having said that I also realize that lead is tremendously toxic. Lead may come from the ground but it is not in the highly refined state that you find in solder. Lead is mined and processed from ore's. The three most common are galena (lead sulfide), cerussite (lead carbonate) and anglesite (lead sulfate). It's a compound usually associated with copper, silver and zinc. In it's naturally occurring states its either not hazardous to much less hazardous than pure lead. Pure lead once it's processed is extremely hazardous and in the case of small children causes devastating lifetime effects to the brain development.
Yes, ingesting it is pretty bad, but I have been soldering since I was 12 and casting lead bullets since I was 18, with no ill effects. I just wash my hands and don't chew on the stuff...
@@RadioPrepper I'm a fanatic about lead. I have a 2nd cousin that suffers from numerous serious health problems due to exposure to lead as a child. She will be lucky if she lives to be 30 years old. The main victims of lead are small children 6 years and younger who ingest it in drinking water. It's the environmental pollution that's a problem. The limit is 15ug/L (or 15 ppb parts per billion) for "relatively" safe drinking water. In the USA 15ug/L is the EPA's action level. Levels above that and you start to see drastic leaning disability in children along with a lot of other health effects. Babies who have their formula mixed with tap water receive more per day than any other family member. Point being it takes a microscopic amount of refined lead to contaminate a enormous quantity of water. The lifelong health problems, including anemia, hypertension, immunotoxicity and toxicity to the reproductive organs along with neurological and behavioral effects of lead that can be irreversible and can all be avoided if the planets population only handled and disposed of lead properly. It's estimated that as many as 1 million people per year die from the side effects of lead exposure.
Maybe I should have that checked, given my previous exposure... The most I probably would have been exposed to would have been shooting in poorly ventilated areas and handling lead bullets... Stay tuned...
Use some steel wool or, "brillo pad" to clean the tip. Also a wet sponge works wonders. The SWR is likely affected by the metal window frame proximity.
Nooo steel wool! That's a common mistake and a great way to ruin your soldering iron tips! You want to use something that's not as "hard" as the tip so you don't scratch it up, instead use something like a 100% copper or brass scrub pad or brush to clean the tip along with a plain wet sponge.
@@Justin-bd2dg trust me, steel wool still scratches the surface and makes your tips not last as long compared to using bronze or brass. Those scratches collect more garbage and blacken more easily which means you have to clean more often as well... That is, if you want to work quicker and make cleaner connections. You think your Japanese iron company has a vested intrest in making your tips last longer or would it be better for their business model if you bought tips more often?🤔
I wonder if you could use the thin metal wiring inside solar panels for use as an antenna for (FM) Radio reception? You have to disable power generation somehow by masking the glass with a sheet of sunproof black plastic. Can it be done?
It works very well! In big agreement with you about the lead-free crap. 'Tin-Whiskers' is just one thing that comes to mind, never mind the high temp (pad killer). I also heard that anything satellite related is lead only. Good one.
Here is an idea, how about a J Pole antenna if you have a tall window. Another option is to find a large piece of thick Mylar sheet (might be available at an art supply store or a supplier for signage) and stick the copper to the Mylar sheet. You can roll it up and deploy when needed. There is another item that might still be available in the USA, it is called a Venttenna. It amounts to a piece of PVC pipe with what might be a J Pole stuck in it. It is designed to be mounted on top of an existing drain line vent on the roof of a building, yes its noticeable but my excuse is "I am venting the sewer gas a little further up so I don't smell it in my home". You could use the copper tape and Mylar antenna and glue it to the inside of a PVC pipe and attach it to a vent pipe. Its works great for repeater frequencies both U and V frequencies and if one lives in the hellacious area that is governed by an HOA (home owners association, usually a very corrupt self governing neighborhood zoning organization). Here in SV land if one is in good terms with all the residents of the condo buildings you live in you might be able to mount one on top of an existing vent on the roof, all that's left is to get the feed line down to your apartment.
A half wave of twinlead (free space length X 0.95 Velocity Factor) taped perpendicular to the antenna between antenna and coax should relieve some of the mechanical stress on the feed point. It will be easier to solder to and will also serve as a balun. KC5UES
Comment ce va. Kester 37-63 is the best damn solder you can buy. NASA has long recommended and exclusively uses this mix versus 40-60. 37-63 has a lower melting point that 40-60, and it flows really nice. For what it's worth I'm a retired Electronics guy - 52 year career including radio broadcast engineer. Been to NASA soldering school, and learned a lot from that and life. For instance wet your iron tip and heat the joint, applying the solder to the wire and NOT the tip. Use lots of flux if needed. I use multicore organic flux solder, but paste flux is terrific. 73s K7BDD
@Radio Prepper, Give the TS-100 or the KSGER T-12 solder stations a try. Fast heat/recovery on those, AND the T-12 has a few more watts than my Hakko 936 did. On the KSGER, make sure you groundbond the case, for safety.
I used lead solder at one time and could not get it to work UNTIL I got some rosin flux paste. Once I lightly brushed the flux on the surface, it flowed with ease.
Hahahah, my first reaction when you mentioned lead-free solder, I was like why would you ever want to use that? It is total crap! But then you said the same thing :-) Merci
ROHS compliance
I agree with you on the lead free solder, it should be all gathered up and melted down for boat anchors.......
Melt it down and make it into miniature figurines for wargamers lol
Melting for casting to harden my bullets...
Remember to put the anchor on the foot of whoever thought lead free was a good idea using handcuffs, then throw him/her overboard. Give them a knife, if they want to save themselves, they can chop off their foot! Oh I am evil :-))
Yup - tried really hard to go lead free but it isn't even a poor substitute for real solder it is rubbish.
It's for making stills.
I've used that type of copper foil tape to make antennas! I made a two-element bow-tie antenna for my TV, and a dual-band fan dipole for 2m/70cm for my handheld - both using plastic laminated sheets. I didn't try soldering. I used small nuts and bolts to connect the coax. It was much easier and provided better physical support. SWR for 2m/70cm was decent - about 1.5 or better on both bands. Pretty cool!
I used to use Aluminium foil tape that Alarm system engineers used for protecting windows, it was easy to make a square element with using the stick on foil terminations. No soldering needed.
If you need to use lead-free solder be sure everything you want to solder is very clean, then smear solder flux on everything before you try to solder. It does help.
Did you try bending the elements toward the coax to improve the SWR? It should act just like an inverted V.
I've read an article on an actual J-pole made of metal tape stuck to a window. It worked just like one made of copper tubing.
I did not try that no..
I have made a high UHF helical beam antenna (RHCP) using tape like this on a paper roll. It was a winter project requiring a little gain and a lot of fun :-) learning about helical beam antenna construction.
You calculated the dimensions for free space and the glass has a certain dielectric constant which probably resulted in you having to shorten the antenna elements to raise the resonant frequency.
Hi Gil, as an electronics engineer I work with lead free solder often. It requires attention to work well. The most important is that lead free solder has a narrow temperature window in which it works well and it is lower than with solder containing lead, more like 260C where leaded solder works better at 350C. If you go above 260C with lead free it burns and doesn’t stick. And it ruins the tip.
Clean your solder tip, wet is with a big drop of leaded solder if you still have some to recover the tip. If the tip looks nice and shiny again, solder with lead free at no more than 260-280C.
You can buy tiny tins containing a solid kind of paste in which you can stick your tip to recover it. I have it called Tip activator. Handy to have when your tip needs some TLC!
Thanks I'll try, but that stuff has a hard time melting at 480C!
@@RadioPrepper Yes I know. That’s because your tip is burned. You need shiny fresh tin on the tip to get the solder to melt. And once your tip is fine again (I hope you can revive it at all) you will notice that it works reasonable at lower temperature. Although leaded solder is still much more convenient. I fully agree on that. Lead free is best for automated well controlled soldering machines.
Just don’t be tempted to crank up the temperature if it doesn’t melt, stay at the low side. And for myself I prefer a bigger tip so you get better heat transfer at lower temperatures.
Ok thanks. I did order new tips..
I made a 70cm Moxon with 1/4" copper tape on a piece of cardboard from the back of a notepad. It is zip tied to a small wood dowel, and is in my office so I can hit the repeater from there. Can't do it on the rubber duck.
Just got my copper tape in the mail and I'm about to give this a go. Thanks for the idea!
I remember a stealth antenna for scanners made with foil tape , it had a horizontal piece with three or four virtical pieces of different lengths Yagi style , these were wrapped around a piece of drain pipe and then the assembly was put inside a larger diameter drain pipe with a top cap and a bottom cap with a hole and a piece of plastic mesh at the bottom to keep out insects and let condensation out ,this was then fixed to an outside wall with drain pipe wall clips
Shiny, metallic duct tape works can be used for this also. I made a j-pole of the duct
tape stuck to a mirror about 30 years ago. It worked great for several years. Just make
sure you check it with an ohmmeter to be sure it is conductive (most duct tapes are not).
I've seen this tape used as bus bar by the model railway guys, they probably have tips on soldering it (and sources of leaded solder).
In reference to your mentioned Yagi I built one from your calculations page attached 2 MTRS long in two sections of brush(broom handle) that screw together.Steel for elements and a 259 socket in a metal box....let's just say using my Chinese motorbike intercom set the directional distance is astonishing.Thanks for your posts. UK user
i use the silver and tin solder and never had a issue, i also use flux when I'm using it as well.
Bonjour Gil - great idea! I would say that you needed to shorten the antenna length for resonance in the 2m band because of the glass. I have a lot of experience with making wire vertical antennas on fiberglass or PVC supports, and always have to shorten them well below the theoretical free space length to make them resonate a particular frequency. The adjacent dielectric material, be it glass or plastic, makes the antenna longer electrically. One never knows how much to shorten it by, but you have to go through the process of tuning the antenna manually as you did. The standard free space formula 468/F for determining the half-wavelength is a starting point, but always gives too long a length for the actual antenna as in this case when a dielectric support material is so close. The glass may also absorb some of the rf as well, but not much.
Great info thanks.
Nice Gil. I have used that copper tape for a number of antenna projects - I use the wide 10cm copper tape, taped to a fibreglass mast to give a broad band vertical antenna. I have used the wide tape strapped to a hola-hoop for a magnetic loop antenna. For your vertical dipole, you should have the elements in a V shape - about 120 degree angle to drop the impedance closer to 50 ohms and give you a much better SWR
I used some alarm tape used to detect glass breakage to make a dipole for uhf to put on a celebrity radio commenters home office. First I determined the window was not coated with metallic film. He had a plastic grid in the window to imitate a pane glass window. So I was able to hide the antenna and feedline behind the plastic grid. The grid helped hold the feedline at right angles. I Used about 25 watts and received an excellent noise free signal used for several years. It was almost totally invisible which was good for aesthetic reasons.
bamboo, balsa wood Yagi and fold it up with the copper tape stuck to it and away you go portable to the top of a hill and the antenna weighs nothing. Edit: Good idea using the tape, I used it for making ground planes for an antenna that went through a roof at the ridge. It worked very well, used four bits of tape as a ground plane stuck the the inside of the roof. Nice video. I have used a lot of things to get round someone living in a flat. It was the days of CB, so you can imaging how big the antennas were. We even used a curtain rail cut end insulated (plastic) in the middle (Brass plated) it worked well, though it was horizontal it still got him talking to his mates and it was spot on for DX. Brilliant idea using the tape.
Your soldering iron carbon build up is what's making your life super difficult. Try a tip tinning compound. That with a brass wool soldering sponge helped remove all the carbon from my tip and it made a huge difference, even if I used lead free solder.
Don't fall into the trap of sanding or eroding the tip material, you just need to clean the carbon off. It takes a while but I saved my tip and it works well now.
Will do, thanks.
So many ideas, thanks for the great video.
Nice work, Gil. The antenna is a success!
This works great, with this tape I was able to make a full wave VHF Lo antenna in my attic. Further on, I was able to add directors with some cardboard. Finally I made a huge reflector behind this massive antenna array.
Great demonstration, I'm planning on making a slot antenna out of copper tape. Vertically mounted, horizontally polarised 73 de GØUSL
I love the creativity. Great ideas!
I am going to build this antenna, so simple and cheap. Good idea.
This could be the answer for many coach built motorhome users too! You don't want to drill the body, plus it's plastic. Only other place is the bike rack for mounting. Loving this idea 👍
What a neat project, thanks for that
Lead free solder is properly isht. Great dipole idea, i use this tape for the fm band.. i need a balun in between the 2 poles.
Great product for /P collapsible antennas. VHF\UHF\SHF LPDA on a roll of paper,
You only need to strip 2 cm of the backing to mount it Gil (easier to remove).
Yep, fortunately it came off easily!
Thanks for sharing.
Fun experiment
Thank you
Hehehe... not a bad idea at all. And it seems that I haven't forgot all the French language I've learned in school... isually I remember it when I get stuck in the Paris Airport for more than 4 hours ))) I think we could even turn it into some sort of copper tubing if there is none to build an antenna... and stick it to a thin PVC pipe or wood. And I guess the possibilities are endless ))) 73 have an amazing week.
Thank you for sharing such an extraordinary idea! A number of antenna designs already known and tested might be reconsidered now. Even if not achieving minimal SWR possible, such constructions may be estheticly looking and fun to build.
Consider taping it on the outside. The UV filters and whatever coatings that glass have are a serius RF screen. My particular case is with a full size J-pole antenna inside the room, i can barely use the 70cm band. However on the outside I can hit the repeater with 2.5W with a 5cm rubber ducky.
So the glass is killing the J-pole.
Good to see some improvisation. Looks like a handy item to have around.
Good for a stealth PMR antenna on the car's windscreen ;) Well done
Regards
Oh what very good idea thanks !!!
Love your work..
Way Cool! Thanks from 🇺🇸
Great idea think out of the box.
I've not tested the electrical characteristics of the "conductive adhesive" copper foil tape... however, that material does exist if you didn't know. Amazes me how you can even wrap aluminum foil tape around wood and make antenna elements that work well. That's like using the non-conductive adhesive copper foil tape that I'm guessing works even better. However, just wanted to note that there is conductive adhesive copper foil tape too that might save on soldering requirements if the electrical characteristics are suitable.
Does the Kester flux help with the soldering performance? I usually tin/solder each side then solder together... not all at one time. Also, prior to solder use the Kester flux pen or flux on the surfaces prior to soldering. That's my experience... though yes... not so fun to work with. Amazes me how even only a difference in flux can effect soldering performance.
I only have a can of flux, but I should try a pen, less messy..
@@RadioPrepper I have some Kester #186 Flux Pens, that came with a solar cell DIY kit, that are expired and the one that wasn't kept in the fridge like the others still seems to work well. Not sure if freezing helps... though keeping in the fridge does from what I've read. I keep in a ziplock bag.
Thanks, I will get some..
Muchas gracias. Buena idea.
Probably a good idea to have anyway in a ham's toolkit but as emergency antenna also an option.
Wondering if i can make a 4meter antenna on a old peace of bicarbonate i have in the shed.
lol i have a roll of that in the garage! wondering if you would have a different result on the outside of the window or further out on the balcony?
Interesting question...
Thank you so much! This is something I plan on buying, you never know when SHTF and you need an antenna! I suppose the shield and conductors could be taped as well!
I would expect much better SWR. Maybe window glass has some kind of protective coating. It usually contains metal.
I think its the metal frame of the window
Could be...
No Balun. Isn’t a dipole some 300 ohms?
A dipole is 73 Ohms. A doublet I think is around 300.
@@RadioPrepper I was thinking of a folded dipole. Still, your VNA is only measuring VSWR vs frequency. If you just trim it so VSWR looks good at a desired frequency, you no longer have a resonant antenna for the desired frequency.
Hi Gil. Yes, lead free solder is something I always avoid - I tried it only once! The copper tape is very good. I have made a few antennas using this tape. Wrapping it round 4mm diameter glass fibre rod which is then covered with heatshrink makes an effective and robust whip type antenna. Also, I gave wrapped it around a plastic hula-hoop to make a very effective mag loop. Because of the RF skin effect, I suspect that this thin tape stuck to a plastic tube gives similar performance to a copper tube.
Excellent. Yes, I'll never use the lead-free again!
“There’s snow on the mountains, but I can’t go to the mountains...” (probably also caused by lead free solder too). I agree, lead-free solder is awful stuff.
Life is too short for lead free solder. In my experience, one of the best things about leaded solder is how well it desolders when you have to repair something.
Nice project (minus the annoying solder)! This tape is also commonly used in guitar shielding. Not sure if it is different but the backing is conductive.
Gil, great stuff.. as always. Merci.
Thanks! BTW it's "Gil."
Outstanding.
Try a mag loop I did with copper foil tape ..I did and it worked well. Note some glass windows with thermal property's can be conductive..
Look behind me on the video ;-)
@@RadioPrepper Foil tape works well as a mg loop
Nice idea!! The problem with swr and some losses is not in the tape but with the the glass. It has a high quantity of lead. Sticking the tape to a plexiglass strip would give you a better swr. It's also advisable to get the feed points of the elements closer together.
I thought having a higher Dielectric constant of 7-10 is better? 🤔
Can you explain?
@@hulkgqnissanpatrol6121 if you want the window to be a capacitor, yes. If you want the window to be effectively transparent to RF then no.
That would probably work really well for SDR applications. With that huge width I'll bet it would make an amazing Air band Rx antenna.
Great demonstration of assembling a non-traditional antenna. Thanks for the helpful ideas.
The first thing that came to mind when I saw the width of the tape was. eddy current. Ordinary antenna and antenna wire have a high "fineness ratio" = small diameter compared to length and thus less area span-wise to 'wander' sideways. I would expect that it would be influenced a lot by nearby conductive objects like wires, or even the human body. Try waving your arm in the vicinity of the tape antenna and watch the SWR . just a guess.
Interesting thanks.
Back in the early 90's while working on the GM 'Backlight' program to design antennas on the rear window glass of GM cars we used copper tape to mock up antennas, worked really well! Fun fact: Detroit Greenfield Road area has broadcast signal strength as hi as 1,000,000 uV/meter, this was the test area for the program! GM radios performed poorly in that environment at the time! There was even cross-band suppression by 2 FM stations into the AM band at 590Khz where the GM radio goes silent even though there was a station there!
I bought some copper "tape" at Hobby Lobby in the stained glass isle. I haven't used it yet, but it will be for an antenna project.
excellent !!!
It's great stuff, perfect for making all sorts of things, you can use it to make filters for UHF/Microwave, you can shield projects with it, make antennas, even make power connections
I use it for drone builds, shielding.
Thanks for the idea!
You could make a helical antenna by wrapping it around a carton tube. Also, there is a TH-camr who wraps aluminium foil strips around a hula hoop and makes a magloop like that ;-)
Good idea!
I have seen this video. He made a "trombone" variable capacitor to go with it. Very clever.
At this point in time it is easier to find the tape than the hula hoop...ha ha ha
Interesting video and that keeps it on the cheap side
Smart thinking
Dear Gil, I suppose your window frame is PVC type. If so there is a pretty nice metal frame inside and it "kills" your improvised antenna. This tape antenna will work as a normal dipole if you have a wooden frame and no metal parts embedded in it. For sake of the science you can play with a piece of plywood or PVC with a certain size and stick the type to it but keep it out of the window frame.
Tres bonne video merci
Thumbs up brother!
Thanks Gil ! Nice improvisation!
got it and works like a champ kg6mn mines at 70 cm
It was wonderful to hear you speaking in French. I just began studying French, using Duolinguo. My goal? Traveler’s level French, in time for a May ‘22 trip. On ham radio, I am enjoying your videos. I am considering the QPR facet of the hobby. Thank you for all! 73 de David AE4LH
Excellent!
Great idea!
Great! That's what i really needed - another project
Thanks for making and sharing this informative video!
Thanks for talking about lead free solder. I thought it was just me.
merci pour vos bonnes idee
As usual very informative, thanks.
Cutting the tape along its length before removing the backing will yield strips of whatever width strikes your fancy.
Another use for this stuff besides making PCB tracks, ground planes, and shielding. Look at the big box hobby stores in the stained glass area for different sizes.
One I have not tried but will is a Moxon on plexiglass.
I built 8 LPDA antennas over the holidays out of that exact copper foil tape.. works great!
Good to see you Gil. Great video. You are right about making any antenna with that stuff. 73 de KG7LOI.
pretty cool man!
Good experimenting Gil! And no slugs or snails up your windows! Bonus 😁👍🏻 Perhaps a vertical yagi on a window you can open and then direct the beam 🤔
That's an idea!
Great idea, thanks.
Will the lead free solder work better if you use flux?
Probably...
I use lead solder whenever possible. The only place I don't is when a customer needs to keep something ROHS compliant. Having said that I also realize that lead is tremendously toxic. Lead may come from the ground but it is not in the highly refined state that you find in solder. Lead is mined and processed from ore's. The three most common are galena (lead sulfide), cerussite (lead carbonate) and anglesite (lead sulfate). It's a compound usually associated with copper, silver and zinc. In it's naturally occurring states its either not hazardous to much less hazardous than pure lead. Pure lead once it's processed is extremely hazardous and in the case of small children causes devastating lifetime effects to the brain development.
Yes, ingesting it is pretty bad, but I have been soldering since I was 12 and casting lead bullets since I was 18, with no ill effects. I just wash my hands and don't chew on the stuff...
@@RadioPrepper I'm a fanatic about lead. I have a 2nd cousin that suffers from numerous serious health problems due to exposure to lead as a child. She will be lucky if she lives to be 30 years old. The main victims of lead are small children 6 years and younger who ingest it in drinking water. It's the environmental pollution that's a problem. The limit is 15ug/L (or 15 ppb parts per billion) for "relatively" safe drinking water. In the USA 15ug/L is the EPA's action level. Levels above that and you start to see drastic leaning disability in children along with a lot of other health effects. Babies who have their formula mixed with tap water receive more per day than any other family member. Point being it takes a microscopic amount of refined lead to contaminate a enormous quantity of water. The lifelong health problems, including anemia, hypertension, immunotoxicity and toxicity to the reproductive organs along with neurological and behavioral effects of lead that can be irreversible and can all be avoided if the planets population only handled and disposed of lead properly. It's estimated that as many as 1 million people per year die from the side effects of lead exposure.
Maybe I should have that checked, given my previous exposure... The most I probably would have been exposed to would have been shooting in poorly ventilated areas and handling lead bullets... Stay tuned...
"got it up quite a bit; that's what she said" hahaha
Will be interesting to see how it works as a Quad! Thanks for the inspiration!
73 de Roland
Absolute genius!
Thanks for Sharing this Idea, it makes think of other Ideas !! For other projects!! Great Stuff!!
Progress!
Use some steel wool or, "brillo pad" to clean the tip. Also a wet sponge works wonders.
The SWR is likely affected by the metal window frame proximity.
Nooo steel wool! That's a common mistake and a great way to ruin your soldering iron tips! You want to use something that's not as "hard" as the tip so you don't scratch it up, instead use something like a 100% copper or brass scrub pad or brush to clean the tip along with a plain wet sponge.
@@macgyver5108 my $250 Japanese soldering iron came with steel wool. You are just poking the tip into it, it's not destructive.
@@Justin-bd2dg trust me, steel wool still scratches the surface and makes your tips not last as long compared to using bronze or brass. Those scratches collect more garbage and blacken more easily which means you have to clean more often as well... That is, if you want to work quicker and make cleaner connections. You think your Japanese iron company has a vested intrest in making your tips last longer or would it be better for their business model if you bought tips more often?🤔
@@macgyver5108 just call me a skeptic then...lol
What about finishing up with 1000 grit sandpaper?
I wonder if you could use the thin metal wiring inside solar panels for use as an antenna for (FM) Radio reception? You have to disable power generation somehow by masking the glass with a sheet of sunproof black plastic. Can it be done?
Maybe but it's much easier to use a simple wire.
It works very well! In big agreement with you about the lead-free crap. 'Tin-Whiskers' is just one thing that comes to mind, never mind the high temp (pad killer). I also heard that anything satellite related is lead only. Good one.
Here is an idea, how about a J Pole antenna if you have a tall window. Another option is to find a large piece of thick Mylar sheet (might be available at an art supply store or a supplier for signage) and stick the copper to the Mylar sheet. You can roll it up and deploy when needed. There is another item that might still be available in the USA, it is called a Venttenna. It amounts to a piece of PVC pipe with what might be a J Pole stuck in it. It is designed to be mounted on top of an existing drain line vent on the roof of a building, yes its noticeable but my excuse is "I am venting the sewer gas a little further up so I don't smell it in my home". You could use the copper tape and Mylar antenna and glue it to the inside of a PVC pipe and attach it to a vent pipe. Its works great for repeater frequencies both U and V frequencies and if one lives in the hellacious area that is governed by an HOA (home owners association, usually a very corrupt self governing neighborhood zoning organization). Here in SV land if one is in good terms with all the residents of the condo buildings you live in you might be able to mount one on top of an existing vent on the roof, all that's left is to get the feed line down to your apartment.
Years ago they made a free-standing HF+6 multi-segment vertical. Glad to see they are still around.
Can you use a solder sucker on old electronics to reclaim the real solder?
The flux would be burned, not worth the effort
A half wave of twinlead (free space length X 0.95 Velocity Factor) taped perpendicular to the antenna between antenna and coax should relieve some of the mechanical stress on the feed point. It will be easier to solder to and will also serve as a balun. KC5UES
I installed this product in home built aircraft for NAV/COM. 1983? I think. Stained glass makers utilize a similar product.
Could the hiss be from the cruddy solder? Curious to see if hiss goes away if lead solder is used. Maybe future video?
Comment ce va.
Kester 37-63 is the best damn solder you can buy. NASA has long recommended and exclusively uses this mix versus 40-60. 37-63 has a lower melting point that 40-60, and it flows really nice. For what it's worth I'm a retired Electronics guy - 52 year career including radio broadcast engineer. Been to NASA soldering school, and learned a lot from that and life. For instance wet your iron tip and heat the joint, applying the solder to the wire and NOT the tip. Use lots of flux if needed. I use multicore organic flux solder, but paste flux is terrific.
73s
K7BDD
@Radio Prepper, Give the TS-100 or the KSGER T-12 solder stations a try. Fast heat/recovery on those, AND the T-12 has a few more watts than my Hakko 936 did. On the KSGER, make sure you groundbond the case, for safety.
I have seen pictures of copper tape VHF antennas just like this one on aircraft fuselages!