Awesome video. Glad you are getting the knowledge out there. I build one of these for an old 3G modem for lady who had an art studio in an area with no internet and very weak cell coverage. I made a dipole for 850mhz on an attic window with copper tape that she used for making stained glass windows. It was all she had and I had not planned on doing antenna work. I cut the end off a wifi antenna that had an SMA-RP connector, made a "pin" out of rolled up tape and put it into the SMA connector on the modem. Full signal right away. I was shocked. I soldered it with solder meant for making stained glass windows so came back a few weeks later with a proper factory made antenna, but she still talks about that bodge whenever I run into her in town.
I made a 2m/70cm yagi for satellite operation from a clothes drying rack (and some 3D printed parts). Works as good as an Arrow for a fraction of the price. I even made a video on it. On a side note this was the first antenna I made as a ham. Where other people go for a dipole as their first build I went for the much steeper learning curve…
I operated on 2m SSB back in the 1980’s using coat hanger wire bent into a folded dipole on the window. Only downside was getting RF feedback into the audio via the mic lead.
I stuck wider tape (Amazon, of course) on a piece of cardboard. Cut a moxon for 70 cm - like a PCB trace but about 0.5cm wide. It hit a local repeater.
Look up “flowerpot antenna” if you get a VK callsign in the URL you are in the right place. I use these a lot. I dont strip the coax I just joint a piece of wire to replace the centre conductor.(cheaper). 😊
About 8 years ago I had a 2 meter J-pole on a piece of plexiglass that i hid behind my desk. On my many night shifts I could place it in the window looking at Downtown Atlanta GA from my 8th floor work window. lots of 1/2 a watt contacts on simplex and repeaters.
I had a go at making a home made YouLoop Magnetic Antenna. To get it to make a round shape I fed it through a hula hoop from the pound shop.. It made it look a lot tidier as well.
I love your way of thinking. Instead of looking at commercially made antennas and thinking, "that would be very difficult to home-brew", look around you for objects with structural potential !
For ARRL members the March-April 2021 issue of On The Air magazine has an article describing how you can build this type of antenna as well. TNX for sharing, it is surprising how well these things can work. 73 - Dino KLØS
Don't forget the dielectric constant of the glass. This also has an effect on the resonant frequency of the antenna. The wider the tape is, the greater the bandwidth will be - probably. Keep up the great work !
I wonder if the shape also influences directionality. While a wire dipole is round, and thus every direction "sees" the same surface of copper, this is not the case for a tape. I did experiments with copper tape for antennas a few weeks ago, both to make microstrip antennas and larger dipoles (but free hanging). Looking to make an optimized antenna for 128MHz with a hopefully quite wide bandwidth (FM radio + 144)
@@keukenrol That is a very good question. It is good to hear about your experiments. Now I am wondering if a resonant loop antenna can be constructed by sticking copper tape to a window. Why don't you make a short video about your experiments ?
@@fotografm A bit short on time right now, but if I find something significant I'll share! EDIT: I was thinking about using a PCV pipe to bend the copper tape around in its width and make a kind of copper tube from it. Make 2 of it and use it as dipole.
I have some of tha ttape, though I did not get on with experimenting with it. The classic use for it is the "barber pole" antenna, where it is wrapped around a non conductive pipe. I sort of see making antennas being easier than buying them. With raw materials on hand I can make a 2M antenna faster than I can shop for one, and way faster than the wait for it to be shipped to me. Not to mention the time at a job to pay the high cost of factory antenna.
I've made several 2m antenna on fiberglass driveway markers. They're about a meter long and 8 dollars for a pack of 4 at WalMart :) Put about 10 turns of 18 or 16 AWG solid wire at the base, then continue straight to the other end of the rod. Trim the length back to resonance. You can heatshrink the whole length if you want, but be aware that the velocity factor change will probably affect your tuning Edit: Obviously needs a ground plane of some sort to work well.
As a quick way to prototype wire antennas, hot glue thin gauge copper wire to poster foam core boards. The hot glue lifts off with a bit of alcohol, so making small adjustments is easy. Also the foam core is essentially air, and thus has the same dieletric constant as air (of 1.0). Glass is much higher. Compensation is possible of course, but you won’t be able to directly translate dimensions from prototype to production antenna as easily.
Old estate agent's boards mare from Correx board would be very good for mounting the foil on. I always keep an eye out for those boards because they can be very usefully recycled! Another source can be those roll-up standing signs people make for events - they are held up by about 7' of aluminium poles which are a good basis for VHF/UHF antennas
That copper tape's adhesive is conductive, so if you want to add a little length, just add an inch of tape at the ends, making sure it overlaps the existing tape.
The total Mass of the material becomes a player here. The adhesive and glass introduce capacitance also. I've had some very good results with tape on 3/4" pvc pipe, and polyethylene. Use your power meter to map out the lobe pattern. ;)
I recently made an INMARSAT patch antenna from aluminum sheets and copper foil tape (made with the same specs as the one you made with PCB). I have no way of testing the SWR, but I was receiving/decoding ACARS. I've found that adding 3-6 layers of the tape can help, as the adhesive is "conductive".
I have made copper foil antennas for television on that ribbed plastic foam board used for posters. The foil I used was intended for stained glass and was not as wide as your foil. I was pleased with the results and made several of them for friends.
I think you could make a stealthy on glass mobile slot antenna with this stuff. Advantage of the slot antenna here is the seemingly horizontal antenna is actually vertically polarised, so ideal for FM work.
Over here in 'Merica, in the early 1990's we worked on a GM car program called 'Backlight' and made up FM diversity antenna prototypes with copper tape directly on auto window glass of test cars in a Detroit test area where there was nearly 1,000,000 microvolts/meter signal strength across several bands! There were so many transmitters, AM, FM, TV, cellular, business, etc that there was even cross-band suppression of a few broadcast AM stations by FM transmitters! It's the wild west in the USA when it comes to allowable signal strength!
I've seen Yagis made for the 2,4 GHz WiFi Frequencies in this fashion. There are a few videos around, a betteer known one features this build method as a "yagi driver" in a cantenna. Could work quite well as an HOA antenna for the US too...
In playing around, it seems like theres no penalty for just sticking some more on to the end for extra length. You could make your antenna longer with ease. You could also probably just tape the wire right to the strip without needing solder for experimentation with other configurations like j-poles or yagis. The options for duct tape substrates makes this an interesting portable antenna as well.
I have a dual-band Jpole on my sliding glass door made out of this stuff... but instead of using copper tape I use Aluminium Duct Tape used by the HVAC Construction guys... makes an easy and simple RF Ground trace as well as a easy SDR Loop and Planar Disk antennas for UHF+... makes easy home-made capacitors, and voltaic piles if you're into that sort of thing...
Yes, please do a cutting board yagi or log periodic. Your 2m dipole would benefit from a balun on the coax. You can also place a 1/2 wave for 70cm strip next to the 2m dipole and you'll get the 2nd band ok. 73 OM
The copper J Pole is the best I have seen we have 12 j poles in operation for 14 years now and I will put any antenna up against them they are awesome.
@@TechMindsOfficial thanks for the vid. My comment Was in relation to the unexpectedly broad and low return loss of the antenna which makes me think that the rf energy is being dissipated rather than radiated. It would be a good comparison of the frequency response of the antenna against a simple dipole made by stripping the ends of a coax cable. The width of that conductors will make the copper tape antenna more broadband. However you are right and it does show a novel approach of using a material made for one application being used in another completely different use which I love. One of the great aspects of the ham hobby and home brewing is that it make you look at what a product actually is, not what it says it is on the packaging! Well done,
I agree that experimenting with antennas is a lot of fun. Sometimes you get squat... sometimes you get surprising performance. In my experience intuition works at least as good as calculation.
I see a hf magnetic loop with the glass as the dialectic and a strip of foil on the back side of glass to make the capacitor covering a gap in the loop. Of course your going to be stuck at one freq. Be best with single pane glass
Nice experiment and interesting application of the tape. Perhaps decoupling the coax with a current choke of some kind would give a more meaningful vna curve. The swr curve you saw wasn't representative of the true situation.
Great video Mat, thanks for your work and sharing. I wonder if you would have got slightly better results if your coax was at right angles for at least a 1/4wave? Just a thought.
Nice experiments! I've done similar with copper foil tape acquired as "stained glass foiling tape" from a craft store. The only yagi-uda I tried that way was for 2.4 GHz Wifi which worked OK, but not as well as I was hoping. In that case I stuck the tape elements on a sheet of clear acrylic trimmed down to the rectangular outline of the yagi.
Matt, you have installed the 70cm antenna on a glass substrate but also within a metal loop frame (aka the double glazing panel) which may be what is causing the problem on 70cm. Try it in open air on a thin piece of plastic or similar and see if it works there. Of course, this doesn't solve the problem of an antenna in say a hotel room on holiday. A 5/8 whip on a sun lounger while on the beach might be a better option to a window antenna in the hotel room.
A lot time ago i got cellular base station antenna, but it didn't work. I disassembled it and inside was a similar strip of aluminium foil. But it looks like wave. Probaply if you cut the strip wave way it will work more efficiently.
Attach the copper tape antenna to a broom stick with plastic cable ties just to experiment with it. You also might want to put a hook at the free end of the broomstick and another hook installed into the celing so you can hang the broomstick antenna temporarily from the ceiling for experimentation. Good luck
I guess, it’s all about inspiration. Someone might not be able to afford an “off the shelf” antenna. So making an antenna out of something you might have in the garage would be useful. For those that have money and can buy ready made antennas, then maybe they want to experiment. You don’t have to make it if you don’t want to, that’s called free will. This video just shows “one” type of material out of millions that could potentially be used to make an antenna. This antenna doesn’t perform well, but it performs better than having no antenna :)
Hey matt i made a vhf/uhf tape measure hand held beam that works pretty well for doing satellites it folds down small and the weight is very very light. 🇦🇺
I came across some forgotten boxes of corner tape used for caulking projects. It has a thin (thickness) strip of galvanized aluminum and I wondered about the possibilities.
Hi there, very very interesting your video; I also was thinking of testing a similar set up, but then life&work got in the way ... I think that there are three factors that needs to be considered: 1) each arm is not tubular as in a "normal" antenna, but it is instead a thin flat surface; that changes the way currents are distributed on the antenna radiating surface and hence the response to a particular frequency; 2) the glass, usually, contain lead; of course, this interfere with the workings for this (and any) antenna; 3) the spacing / the gap between the two arms of the antenna; So, for example, I'd like to see how the same identical setup would behave if instead of being stick on a glass surface, is glued on a plastic surface and then set up in open air not near any metallic object; different width of copper tape probably behave differently; I'd like to see that ... different thicknesses also may behave differently ... and also I'd like to see what, if any, difference does it make by varying the gap between the arms, all other factors being equal. I know, it's a lot to ask ... may be you could come up with series of videos? Just saying ...
Nice video! As others have noted, you’ll get some interaction with the metal around the frame of the window and possibly something from the coatings in the glass. When I’ve done these sort of antennas, I shoot for a 1.5 SWR (as it’s a dipole) and don’t worry too much about the slight mismatch. If you’re making home antennas, I recommend the co-ax “flowerpot” antenna. I have one of these for SOTA and it’s an excellent performer.
The wider and flatter the conductor, the lower it's inductance per length. The difference in inductance between 1 meter of 1 mm round wire vs 1 metre of flat 40mm wide copper tape is astounding. Check this with an LC meter and you will be blown away. Btw, When you moved the coax on the vhf version did it change the SWR ? Did you choose a specific coax line length ?
I think permittivity of glass can screw you. I have some window mount 868MHz antennas that are tuned just right (on free space like air) but somewhat off when mounted on glass window. Similar problems are usual, for example mounting antenna in a plastic tube can (often at higher frequency at least does) change it's tuning. I'm unable to explain why this makes a problem at high frequency but worked for you in lower frequency like air/2m band.
I'm not surprised by the wide bandwidth, given that you're using copper tape. I think you might have gotten better performance by running the coax away from the antenna at a 90 degree angle for at least a 1/4 wavelength and including a simple choke balun, which could be just a few turns of the coax wrapped into a coil near the antenna feed point.
I posted a video at the end of last year making the same type of antenna stuck to my kitchen window. Makes for a great "last resort" apartment antenna!
A lot of newer, multi-glazed windows have plastic frames to further reduce the thermal transfer. Although it looked to me like Matt's window may have plastic "beauty" frames inside with an aluminum outer (circumference) frame. In that latter case, yes it will affect the dipole some.
You could make a massive Magnetic Loop Aerial from the outer ring of scrap Trampolines that people have in their gardens etc. Free to good home. I just don't have space as live in a pensioners Bungalow. Cheers from old George
Nice video! But not having a balun can have a drastic impact on the radiation pattern, and I assume can severely impact the input impedance at the UHF frequencies. Also running the coaxial cable in the antenna nearfield may have an impact as well.
Try to make an yagi-antenna on a plastic-folie, (DIN A-4 size plastic shield for a of paper, by an example) for a Test, maybe on 70cm, ... this size will fit! Or any other flexible non conductive plastic, which you can roll down, ... . But keep in mind, to feed the coaxial-cable, perindicular from the antenna pattern. (90 degrees) This is the most problem, you can achieve, making a correct connection to the antenna! (best should be 1/4 of Lambda, minimum ... !) Take care of the lenght of the shield and the inner wire, of the coax splitt-off, they are always the same lenghts! - Always! - Especially on the higher frequencies, like 70cm and more! Even 23cm and 13cm are possible! - A lot to experiment, with different patterns of style an types. It will work, ... ! Also sw-antennas are 'possible', when folded as an meander-pattern (linke a snail, or an 'up and down'-pattern) You can hang this kind of antenna on a Wall, or a 'big' window! Sorry für my bad English, it's not my native tounge, ... HNY - 73 de Markus L. - db9pz
Cut the elements you made for 440 Ham band, in HALF along its length, and then try your same test. The only other thing at 440Mhz is to put it into a J-pole configuration. N7tzq
i for one, and many others, always try without a balum first. I have yet to find a need for one unles it is a design like the EFHW whee you need 49:1. There are some designs that use 9:1 also, and of course the Legendary Doublet needs a 4:1 feed, though it also needs a tuner and tuners for twin feed have the 4:1 built into them almost universally.
@@cabezama1970 I am controlled by Maxwell's Demons ;) But for a quick experiment, I've often skipped the balun. For a more permanent installation or serious application, sure. Bal those Uns!
@Miguel Cabeza Calculating a dipole is calculating a dipole, no matter what frequency. This is an experimenters video, to promote homebrew, its not an off the shelf product Im going to start selling! :-)
I did the copper tape made One for 1.2 ghz 1288. Repeater try cutting down the middle 12 inch I did this on the box from my 1to2 coax box Get some cardboard a scaple knife card board copper tape MOXON ANTENNA HAVE FUN Guy kc2ayg Cheerios
I Love The Effort, But I See A Lot Of Faults In The Video, I May Need To make Similar Video Actually And Show Whats Up, You Did Use A VNA Wich Is Props For You, But All I Can Say Is You Need More Tinkering Untill You Can "sell" This Idea To people As Antenna To use, I Can See This Being Good For HOA Neighborhoods And Such Or Other Situations, But I Assure You, Making Just A Antenna From A Copper Wire Is Mucch Better, BUT If Tape is all you got, use it wisely and You Need To Calculate MORE Then Just A Lenght, Wideness To, Everything Needs To Be Tuned For The Frequency You Want To Tranceive. Props To You For Using The Coax Correctly At The Dipole, I See A lot Of Radio Enthusiasts Using It Wrong And It Hurts To Watch :D But You Should Throw Out HOW Its Corrrectly Made, I May Do That In My Video If I Decide To make One. Sorry For My English, Its Not My Native Language.
This copper tape is used to shield any electric circuit, it's used pretty intensively in electric guitar for the electronic parts under the potentiometer...
Awesome video. Glad you are getting the knowledge out there. I build one of these for an old 3G modem for lady who had an art studio in an area with no internet and very weak cell coverage. I made a dipole for 850mhz on an attic window with copper tape that she used for making stained glass windows. It was all she had and I had not planned on doing antenna work. I cut the end off a wifi antenna that had an SMA-RP connector, made a "pin" out of rolled up tape and put it into the SMA connector on the modem. Full signal right away. I was shocked. I soldered it with solder meant for making stained glass windows so came back a few weeks later with a proper factory made antenna, but she still talks about that bodge whenever I run into her in town.
Thats awesome! Just goes to show that you dont always have to purchase off the shelf products to get good results. Science is science :-)
Some people put rear window defroster tabs/Connector on the copper tape. It gives a nice option for removing the coax. 👍🏻✌🏻🇨🇦
I made a 2m/70cm yagi for satellite operation from a clothes drying rack (and some 3D printed parts). Works as good as an Arrow for a fraction of the price. I even made a video on it.
On a side note this was the first antenna I made as a ham. Where other people go for a dipole as their first build I went for the much steeper learning curve…
Thats awesome! I have not got into building yagi's yet, but I look forward to it! Cheers
I operated on 2m SSB back in the 1980’s using coat hanger wire bent into a folded dipole on the window. Only downside was getting RF feedback into the audio via the mic lead.
I've made loop antennae for HF using copper tape around the edge of an A1 foam board. . I found them very good for receive.
Good tip!
I stuck wider tape (Amazon, of course) on a piece of cardboard. Cut a moxon for 70 cm - like a PCB trace but about 0.5cm wide. It hit a local repeater.
Look up “flowerpot antenna” if you get a VK callsign in the URL you are in the right place. I use these a lot. I dont strip the coax I just joint a piece of wire to replace the centre conductor.(cheaper). 😊
Oh yes, I have experimented with these types of antennas, they work very well indeed.
Aluminum Foil, heat duct tape antenna?
Love my flower pot!
About 8 years ago I had a 2 meter J-pole on a piece of plexiglass that i hid behind my desk. On my many night shifts I could place it in the window looking at Downtown Atlanta GA from my 8th floor work window. lots of 1/2 a watt contacts on simplex and repeaters.
Awesome! :-)
I had a go at making a home made YouLoop Magnetic Antenna. To get it to make a round shape I fed it through a hula hoop from the pound shop.. It made it look a lot tidier as well.
I love your way of thinking. Instead of looking at commercially made antennas and thinking, "that would be very difficult to home-brew", look around you for objects with structural potential !
For ARRL members the March-April 2021 issue of On The Air magazine has an article describing how you can build this type of antenna as well. TNX for sharing, it is surprising how well these things can work. 73 - Dino KLØS
Don't forget the dielectric constant of the glass. This also has an effect on the resonant frequency of the antenna. The wider the tape is, the greater the bandwidth will be - probably. Keep up the great work !
Absolutely, many factors to think about for a perfect tune. Cheers!
I wonder if the shape also influences directionality. While a wire dipole is round, and thus every direction "sees" the same surface of copper, this is not the case for a tape.
I did experiments with copper tape for antennas a few weeks ago, both to make microstrip antennas and larger dipoles (but free hanging). Looking to make an optimized antenna for 128MHz with a hopefully quite wide bandwidth (FM radio + 144)
@@keukenrol That is a very good question. It is good to hear about your experiments. Now I am wondering if a resonant loop antenna can be constructed by sticking copper tape to a window. Why don't you make a short video about your experiments ?
@@fotografm A bit short on time right now, but if I find something significant I'll share! EDIT: I was thinking about using a PCV pipe to bend the copper tape around in its width and make a kind of copper tube from it. Make 2 of it and use it as dipole.
I’ve made a 20m dipole from two metal measuring tapes before, worked contacts around the world on FT8 with it.
I've always wanted to try this. I wonder if SteppIR got their idea from that! :-)
I have some of tha ttape, though I did not get on with experimenting with it. The classic use for it is the "barber pole" antenna, where it is wrapped around a non conductive pipe. I sort of see making antennas being easier than buying them. With raw materials on hand I can make a 2M antenna faster than I can shop for one, and way faster than the wait for it to be shipped to me. Not to mention the time at a job to pay the high cost of factory antenna.
I've made several 2m antenna on fiberglass driveway markers. They're about a meter long and 8 dollars for a pack of 4 at WalMart :) Put about 10 turns of 18 or 16 AWG solid wire at the base, then continue straight to the other end of the rod. Trim the length back to resonance. You can heatshrink the whole length if you want, but be aware that the velocity factor change will probably affect your tuning
Edit: Obviously needs a ground plane of some sort to work well.
As a quick way to prototype wire antennas, hot glue thin gauge copper wire to poster foam core boards. The hot glue lifts off with a bit of alcohol, so making small adjustments is easy.
Also the foam core is essentially air, and thus has the same dieletric constant as air (of 1.0). Glass is much higher. Compensation is possible of course, but you won’t be able to directly translate dimensions from prototype to production antenna as easily.
Old estate agent's boards mare from Correx board would be very good for mounting the foil on. I always keep an eye out for those boards because they can be very usefully recycled! Another source can be those roll-up standing signs people make for events - they are held up by about 7' of aluminium poles which are a good basis for VHF/UHF antennas
That's a great idea!
Have a look at stained glass suppliers, you can get it in more discrete widths. you can also get liquid flux which makes soldering much easier. :)
That copper tape's adhesive is conductive, so if you want to add a little length, just add an inch of tape at the ends, making sure it overlaps the existing tape.
Don’t forget that the metal bits in the window will affect the tune. But antennas on windows can work very well!
The total Mass of the material becomes a player here. The adhesive and glass introduce capacitance also. I've had some very good results with tape on 3/4" pvc pipe, and polyethylene. Use your power meter to map out the lobe pattern.
;)
I recently made an INMARSAT patch antenna from aluminum sheets and copper foil tape (made with the same specs as the one you made with PCB). I have no way of testing the SWR, but I was receiving/decoding ACARS. I've found that adding 3-6 layers of the tape can help, as the adhesive is "conductive".
In the US we have what is called bristol board which could be used. also cardboard flats for display would give a nice flat surface.
I have made copper foil antennas for television on that ribbed plastic foam board used for posters. The foil I used was intended for stained glass and was not as wide as your foil. I was pleased with the results and made several of them for friends.
I think you could make a stealthy on glass mobile slot antenna with this stuff. Advantage of the slot antenna here is the seemingly horizontal antenna is actually vertically polarised, so ideal for FM work.
Over here in 'Merica, in the early 1990's we worked on a GM car program called 'Backlight' and made up FM diversity antenna prototypes with copper tape directly on auto window glass of test cars in a Detroit test area where there was nearly 1,000,000 microvolts/meter signal strength across several bands! There were so many transmitters, AM, FM, TV, cellular, business, etc that there was even cross-band suppression of a few broadcast AM stations by FM transmitters! It's the wild west in the USA when it comes to allowable signal strength!
I've seen Yagis made for the 2,4 GHz WiFi Frequencies in this fashion. There are a few videos around, a betteer known one features this build method as a "yagi driver" in a cantenna. Could work quite well as an HOA antenna for the US too...
In playing around, it seems like theres no penalty for just sticking some more on to the end for extra length. You could make your antenna longer with ease. You could also probably just tape the wire right to the strip without needing solder for experimentation with other configurations like j-poles or yagis. The options for duct tape substrates makes this an interesting portable antenna as well.
I have a dual-band Jpole on my sliding glass door made out of this stuff... but instead of using copper tape I use Aluminium Duct Tape used by the HVAC Construction guys... makes an easy and simple RF Ground trace as well as a easy SDR Loop and Planar Disk antennas for UHF+... makes easy home-made capacitors, and voltaic piles if you're into that sort of thing...
Yes, please do a cutting board yagi or log periodic. Your 2m dipole would benefit from a balun on the coax. You can also place a 1/2 wave for 70cm strip next to the 2m dipole and you'll get the 2nd band ok. 73 OM
Thanks! ;-)
Nice idea for indoor use.but i think it can be wrap on some thin pvc pipe so it work as copper pipe
I love making antennas :) It is fun even when they don't work very well. There are lots of weird & wonderful HF antennas out there.
The copper J Pole is the best I have seen we have 12 j poles in operation for 14 years now and I will put any antenna up against them they are awesome.
A dummy load has a very good swr across the band also.
While your comment it very true, have a think about what I am showing in the video. ;-)
@@TechMindsOfficial thanks for the vid. My comment Was in relation to the unexpectedly broad and low return loss of the antenna which makes me think that the rf energy is being dissipated rather than radiated. It would be a good comparison of the frequency response of the antenna against a simple dipole made by stripping the ends of a coax cable. The width of that conductors will make the copper tape antenna more broadband. However you are right and it does show a novel approach of using a material made for one application being used in another completely different use which I love. One of the great aspects of the ham hobby and home brewing is that it make you look at what a product actually is, not what it says it is on the packaging! Well done,
For windows too small, the tips of the dipole can be folded either 90 degrees, or 180 degrees back towards the center of the dipole.
Buy thinner tape and wind a helical on pvc pipe, loads of experiments on the net for sat. antennas.
a dipole resonant at 145.5 Mhz should also be resonant around 436.5 Mhz ;)
I agree that experimenting with antennas is a lot of fun. Sometimes you get squat... sometimes you get surprising performance. In my experience intuition works at least as good as calculation.
Nice one Matt happy new year
Same to you! thanks dude!
I see a hf magnetic loop with the glass as the dialectic and a strip of foil on the back side of glass to make the capacitor covering a gap in the loop. Of course your going to be stuck at one freq. Be best with single pane glass
Nice experiment and interesting application of the tape. Perhaps decoupling the coax with a current choke of some kind would give a more meaningful vna curve. The swr curve you saw wasn't representative of the true situation.
I always forget that true SWR can be hidden by coax
I saw some of that copper slug tape at my work and the 1st thing i thought was "ooh i could make aerials out of that" haha
The minds of a Ham operator eh! lol
Great video Mat, thanks for your work and sharing. I wonder if you would have got slightly better results if your coax was at right angles for at least a 1/4wave? Just a thought.
Great point!
Nice experiments! I've done similar with copper foil tape acquired as "stained glass foiling tape" from a craft store. The only yagi-uda I tried that way was for 2.4 GHz Wifi which worked OK, but not as well as I was hoping. In that case I stuck the tape elements on a sheet of clear acrylic trimmed down to the rectangular outline of the yagi.
That's a great idea!
Matt, you have installed the 70cm antenna on a glass substrate but also within a metal loop frame (aka the double glazing panel) which may be what is causing the problem on 70cm. Try it in open air on a thin piece of plastic or similar and see if it works there. Of course, this doesn't solve the problem of an antenna in say a hotel room on holiday. A 5/8 whip on a sun lounger while on the beach might be a better option to a window antenna in the hotel room.
A lot time ago i got cellular base station antenna, but it didn't work. I disassembled it and inside was a similar strip of aluminium foil. But it looks like wave. Probaply if you cut the strip wave way it will work more efficiently.
Attach the copper tape antenna to a broom stick with plastic cable ties just to experiment with it. You also might want to put a hook at the free end of the broomstick and another hook installed into the celing so you can hang the broomstick antenna temporarily from the ceiling for experimentation. Good luck
Love to hear why we want to do this with this material. What makes it useful opposed to other designs? Might be interesting for a DIY dish.
I guess, it’s all about inspiration. Someone might not be able to afford an “off the shelf” antenna. So making an antenna out of something you might have in the garage would be useful. For those that have money and can buy ready made antennas, then maybe they want to experiment. You don’t have to make it if you don’t want to, that’s called free will. This video just shows “one” type of material out of millions that could potentially be used to make an antenna. This antenna doesn’t perform well, but it performs better than having no antenna :)
Hey matt i made a vhf/uhf tape measure hand held beam that works pretty well for doing satellites it folds down small and the weight is very very light. 🇦🇺
I really wanna try this at some point.
Yes, definitely works
I came across some forgotten boxes of corner tape used for caulking projects. It has a thin (thickness) strip of galvanized aluminum and I wondered about the possibilities.
Great project !
Thank you!
Hi there,
very very interesting your video; I also was thinking of testing a similar set up, but then life&work got in the way ...
I think that there are three factors that needs to be considered:
1) each arm is not tubular as in a "normal" antenna, but it is instead a thin flat surface; that changes the way currents are distributed on the antenna radiating surface and hence the response to a particular frequency;
2) the glass, usually, contain lead; of course, this interfere with the workings for this (and any) antenna;
3) the spacing / the gap between the two arms of the antenna;
So, for example, I'd like to see how the same identical setup would behave if instead of being stick on a glass surface, is glued on a plastic surface and then set up in open air not near any metallic object;
different width of copper tape probably behave differently; I'd like to see that ...
different thicknesses also may behave differently ...
and also I'd like to see what, if any, difference does it make by varying the gap between the arms, all other factors being equal.
I know, it's a lot to ask ... may be you could come up with series of videos? Just saying ...
Great video. I have seen this done before. Great first antenna build for a new ham with limited space and skills.
Motters M7TRS 73 👍🏻
Nice video! As others have noted, you’ll get some interaction with the metal around the frame of the window and possibly something from the coatings in the glass. When I’ve done these sort of antennas, I shoot for a 1.5 SWR (as it’s a dipole) and don’t worry too much about the slight mismatch.
If you’re making home antennas, I recommend the co-ax “flowerpot” antenna. I have one of these for SOTA and it’s an excellent performer.
The wider and flatter the conductor,
the lower it's inductance per length.
The difference in inductance between 1 meter of 1 mm round wire vs 1 metre of flat 40mm wide copper tape is astounding.
Check this with an LC meter and you will be blown away.
Btw, When you moved the coax on the vhf version did it change the SWR ?
Did you choose a specific coax line length ?
would a balun improve the antenna?
I think permittivity of glass can screw you. I have some window mount 868MHz antennas that are tuned just right (on free space like air) but somewhat off when mounted on glass window. Similar problems are usual, for example mounting antenna in a plastic tube can (often at higher frequency at least does) change it's tuning.
I'm unable to explain why this makes a problem at high frequency but worked for you in lower frequency like air/2m band.
I'm not surprised by the wide bandwidth, given that you're using copper tape. I think you might have gotten better performance by running the coax away from the antenna at a 90 degree angle for at least a 1/4 wavelength and including a simple choke balun, which could be just a few turns of the coax wrapped into a coil near the antenna feed point.
I posted a video at the end of last year making the same type of antenna stuck to my kitchen window. Makes for a great "last resort" apartment antenna!
Thanks, Matt 😁
I smash the like button, whatever you make 😂 ❤
The frame tgat the glass is sandwiched on is aluminum . Would that affect the signal?
A lot of newer, multi-glazed windows have plastic frames to further reduce the thermal transfer. Although it looked to me like Matt's window may have plastic "beauty" frames inside with an aluminum outer (circumference) frame. In that latter case, yes it will affect the dipole some.
You could make a massive Magnetic Loop Aerial from the outer ring of scrap Trampolines that people have in their gardens etc. Free to good home. I just don't have space as live in a pensioners Bungalow. Cheers from old George
Nice video! But not having a balun can have a drastic impact on the radiation pattern, and I assume can severely impact the input impedance at the UHF frequencies. Also running the coaxial cable in the antenna nearfield may have an impact as well.
Thanks for sharing.
belly rumble at 3:26
I wonder if not having sharp, square edges would improve the SWR on the shorter version 🤔
Reminds me of the tape measure antenna ^^
...a sticky-tape, no measure antenna!
Next step: a Yagi antenna taped on an attic window (you would still need to crack it open a bit to be horizontal) 👍
Interesting… 🙂 i wonder is there a real-world ham application for this that a lightweight wire is less suitable for?
This is like the stereo antennas in some automobiles. They work, but are not very efficient.
I made a 70cm 2 meter stealth antenna for my cars rear window out of copper tape !
I made a tape measure yagi! Had fun making it.
Great job!
@@TechMindsOfficial the copper tape is giving me an idea of making a loop antenna using pvc using the copper tape! Or a receiving antenna for SDR.
Wouldn't you get better results if you had used a balum?
Try to make an yagi-antenna on a plastic-folie, (DIN A-4 size plastic shield for a of paper, by an example) for a Test, maybe on 70cm, ... this size will fit!
Or any other flexible non conductive plastic, which you can roll down, ... .
But keep in mind, to feed the coaxial-cable, perindicular from the antenna pattern. (90 degrees) This is the most problem, you can achieve, making a correct connection to the antenna! (best should be 1/4 of Lambda, minimum ... !)
Take care of the lenght of the shield and the inner wire, of the coax splitt-off, they are always the same lenghts! - Always! - Especially on the higher frequencies, like 70cm and more! Even 23cm and 13cm are possible! -
A lot to experiment, with different patterns of style an types.
It will work, ... !
Also sw-antennas are 'possible', when folded as an meander-pattern (linke a snail, or an 'up and down'-pattern)
You can hang this kind of antenna on a Wall, or a 'big' window!
Sorry für my bad English, it's not my native tounge, ...
HNY - 73 de Markus L. - db9pz
Link for that caculator, please.
I thought it was for TV... Might work better for that?
Velocity factor? And the metal in the window, put you off.
It makes good 5ghz wifi antennas.
Yep, 12 volts in and you can set the bias up to that voltage if required.
Also hooking this inside the roof beams and making a huge antenna for hf also. Making a very discrete solution to Karen’s Problems 😂
What about making an antenna with a measuring tape roller!? 👍😉
Look up John Portune W6NBC's videos; he makes a heap of antennas using aluminium foil tape as well.
Thanks, I will take a look!
I looked up that tape right away, might give the yagi-approach a whack. Thanks for posting...
Al double glazed windows have a aluminium Square to keep the two windows together! Is that not a problem to tune the antenna!!! Parasitic koppeling!??
Loading up a the aluminum frame of a sliding glass door...
Cut the elements you made for 440 Ham band, in HALF along its length, and then try your same test. The only other thing at 440Mhz is to put it into a J-pole configuration.
N7tzq
No Balun??
i for one, and many others, always try without a balum first. I have yet to find a need for one unles it is a design like the EFHW whee you need 49:1. There are some designs that use 9:1 also, and of course the Legendary Doublet needs a 4:1 feed, though it also needs a tuner and tuners for twin feed have the 4:1 built into them almost universally.
@@Siskiyous6 anun
I fully trust Maxwell's equations, and W2DU's book Reflections.
Unsubscribed :^!
@@cabezama1970 I am controlled by Maxwell's Demons ;)
But for a quick experiment, I've often skipped the balun. For a more permanent installation or serious application, sure. Bal those Uns!
@Miguel Cabeza Calculating a dipole is calculating a dipole, no matter what frequency. This is an experimenters video, to promote homebrew, its not an off the shelf product Im going to start selling! :-)
I can get this type of tape in my local hard wear store,
I did the copper tape made One for 1.2 ghz 1288. Repeater try cutting down the middle 12 inch I did this on the box from my 1to2 coax box
Get some cardboard a scaple knife card board copper tape MOXON ANTENNA HAVE FUN
Guy kc2ayg Cheerios
Thanks for the Video :) i will try it but i live in a hole xD
I Love The Effort, But I See A Lot Of Faults In The Video, I May Need To make Similar Video Actually And Show Whats Up, You Did Use A VNA Wich Is Props For You, But All I Can Say Is You Need More Tinkering Untill You Can "sell" This Idea To people As Antenna To use, I Can See This Being Good For HOA Neighborhoods And Such Or Other Situations, But I Assure You, Making Just A Antenna From A Copper Wire Is Mucch Better, BUT If Tape is all you got, use it wisely and You Need To Calculate MORE Then Just A Lenght, Wideness To, Everything Needs To Be Tuned For The Frequency You Want To Tranceive. Props To You For Using The Coax Correctly At The Dipole, I See A lot Of Radio Enthusiasts Using It Wrong And It Hurts To Watch :D But You Should Throw Out HOW Its Corrrectly Made, I May Do That In My Video If I Decide To make One. Sorry For My English, Its Not My Native Language.
like this hasnt been done a million times already.. waste of hdd space and bandwidth...
This copper tape is used to shield any electric circuit, it's used pretty intensively in electric guitar for the electronic parts under the potentiometer...