For the children of faculty issue, it is an employment benefit. Just like health insurance. And it would apply best for the professor and secretary to the gardener and janitor. However, setting performance standards should not be waived.
The children of faculty preference seems OK. Legacy preferences seem like the modern day version of the grandfather rule used in Jim Crow election laws. A mechanism to provide a preference to primarily white scions without actually mentioning race.
@@chrislieu6757 Address the greed. Let them buy their way in. Let one rich dude getting his unqualified kid in make a scholarship for 3 qualified but less financially advantaged.
This is the first time I have heard the Harvard and Yale vacuuming up all the black talent argument, even though I have experienced it first hand as a Cornell Engineering graduate. The talent pool really isn’t that deep. By the time you get to a lower Ivy League like Cornell, we are getting the dredge of the affirmative action talent pool and people who can barely do arithmetic. I saw this first hand as a freshman engineer. Well done folks for speaking the truth!! Cornell is a Top 20 school on any metric and any ranking. I’d really hate to see what it’s like at a Top 50 or Top 100 school.
Perhaps if these elite universities are really that concerned about diversity, they might focus more on not regarding legacies or donations made once race is out of the picture, not a choice anymore
Not realistic. Money makes the world go round. Stop the donations and low income programs dry up. You get fewer low income due to lack of financing. I am pro buying your way into colleges and universities for just that reason.
Despite the fact that ALDC are more qualified in some way, there is still a preference isn't there. Large or small, there should not be an unearned advantage by virtue of who your parents are.
Two things, With Abolishment Slavery, the Exemption was Conviction and Incarceration. Resulting in arrest and convictions for trivial infractions ie Slave Labor. With judges, State Attorneys Police on a regular basis being Outed for Racist behavior, it is fare we can with an assured certainty expect a return to a previous era Placism in America.
Diversity exists in several forms outside of thought. Diversity in culture can provide perspectives and objectivity better than like minded people. After removing affirmative action in the University of California, diversity plummeted immediately... What can one do when the infrastructure of one's country makes it difficult for people of your race to advance? Perhaps affirmative action is not the answer, but it definitely does not affect Asian-American students negatively and it does address the problems of diversity. My issue is, most people can sit back and critique Affirmative Action, but they cannot provide another remedy. The leaky pipeline is real, and most professionals in America are either white or Asian. This lack of representation as well as facing racism in professional facilities (read about Ebony McGee, and her book Black Brown and Bruised) is chronically stressful and produces a racial battle fatigue that is indescribable. Imagine the amount of people of color who would not have been accepted without affirmative action. What do you guys say to them when their white counterparts have more of a benefit to education than them simply because the foundations of our country created inequitable access? I wish this debate was centered around the infrastructure of the United States rather than the surface-level argument of race. The focus on outliers, such as individuals who have great ancestors of Native folks is annoying but honestly irrelevant. The laughter in this video is frustrating, bringing up rare cases of Affirmative action instead of discussing the real questions that people of color want to know. Our entire country was made with the purpose of your race being your entire identity (as the United States continuously defined what it meant to be 'white' or worthy of rights), it was wrong of course but nonetheless, true. Why are we sitting here, questioning the morality of race being your identity when people of color do not have a choice? People of color have no choice but to live life through race because things were forced this way. What it meant to be a person as well as worthy of rights was defined by the United States government and to this day, race still affects people of color's economic stance, their healthcare, their environmental conditions , their quality of life, their mortality rate and other pre-conceived notions. Boo y'all, next time include someone who will challenge your opinions instead of a jerk-circle of yes-men lol.
Please separate your paragraphs for easier reading Firstly, I would suggest affirmative action based on economic status would be better. If the argument is that minorities come form economically poor situations, then they'll be taken care of but race as the middle man would be eliminated. This takes out a lot of racial resentment but still keeps generally the same "positive" effect as the previous affirmative action. Secondly, I question the value of the diversity you describe brings to education because you can see how ridiculous colleges like Harvard and Yale have become when they literally tantrum over trigger warnings, Halloween costumes, and basically drive themselves into hysteria whenever they hear an opposing view. What usually happens in these "race-conscious" discussions is that all the white people have to shut up and let the minorities (except Asians) talk and anything other than, "Omg, you're so brave." will be met with scorn and possible retaliation, which we know for a fact has been done to students if they ever spoke out against it. At best, you get a lecture about your white privilege and how awful you are for being born a white person. Also, in case you're wondering, no, I'm not white.
Look at the stats. There is clear discrimination against Asians. Harvard fought fiercely to keep this secret, but now we know. Thanks to the Supreme Court.
I was actually very disappointed by the professional quality of some of the judges. A couple of them are so dumb! As a taxpayer, I am absolutely dismayed.
Now that I know how the sausage is made, I’ve lost my appetite. Take aways: the only diversity that matters is in proportional representation of Blacks…which can be served by admitting ADOS but also Nigerians or Afro Caribbeans…Asians I’ve learned do not contribute to diversity. Conservatives at 8%? Not a problem as ideological diversity is unimportant. Harvard is three or more schools in one - ALDS, minorities and perhaps up to 30% who qualify in their own right based on merit. Of this group they best be supremely qualified (100-300 points higher on standardized testing) lucky and preferably not white; the spots for white applicants are canabalize by those extremely important ALDS and diversity spots. Prediction: SELL squash/rowing/fencing academies!
Response to "the1ne" -- Affirmative action (AA) programs were intended for Native Black Americans (NBAs). That effort got them into the trades, law enforcement, fire departments, various lower-level supervisory and administrative positions, and opened up management and the professions to those qualified via experience and/or educational opportunities -- to attend graduate business, law and health professions schools, for example. Etc. Prior to the 1970s AA served White males on an exclusive, de facto* basis. Other groups have benefitted since then, and today White women are the principal beneficiaries. I'm surprised at your attitude because it's an indication you have bought into a narrative that doesn't make sense for our lineage. Using violence and disdain America has thwarted every effort Black Americans have made at collective self-determination. And we have always done what we could with what little had. And while individual self-determination is important, we have significantly less means to do it right. We are damaged psychologically for the depravity the country purposefully perpetrated on us, we live in the worst areas, attend the worst schools, have less access to capital and decent amenities, and are the face of mass incarceration. Etc. And while we are VICTIMS of a horrific disregard we're still standing, still making enormous contributions to the cultural, economic. political and scientific life of the country. For example, we created America's stealth economics, but most folks don't understand the financial dynamics making this possible, as the teaching of American History (K-12) is white-washed and, in many states, it's a crime to teach the breadth and depth of Black American History (which is American History). Criminalizing its rigor and specificity puts daggers in the minds, bodies & souls of NBAs (and many others). And we will not stand for it.
TRUTH/SATIRE: The affirmative action goal was to help integrate NBAs into every facet of American life. Enter WHITE SUPREMACY MATTERS (WSM). On the advice of its affiliated law firms, student parties to these affirmative action cases chose to squash one piece of a puzzle NBAs use to help effect collective self-determination. Those claimants agreed to be used by WSM because they have determined they're more deserving of seats at UNC (Chapel Hill), and Harvard U (MA), seats which heretofore have been occupied by NBAs and POC**, most of whom thrive, graduate, and do well in life. Other efforts could possibly serve claimants, but they, WSM and the country haven't pursued them. Furthermore NBAs had an outsized role in making those schools possible, but acknowledging as much helps derail their goal of hijacking those seats for themselves. The recriminations that follow AA affect NBA beneficiaries the most. This makes the devil blush with ecstasy. Decades ago he discovered his WSM-affiliated lawyers torched the memo declaring "past is prologue." His smiling face froze then he fainted and couldn't get up. And here we are. It's no secret he expeditiously rewards them when their eternity beckons, as their complete devotion will enable them to descend into his hot embrace with a spit-fire quickness. (*de facto/in effect - by right or not, **POC/People of Color, Truth/Satire, KFB 042223)
Affirmative action (AA) programs were intended for Native Black Americans (NBAs). That effort got them into the trades, law enforcement, fire departments, various lower-level supervisory and administrative positions, and opened up management and the professions to those qualified via experience and/or educational opportunities --- to attend graduate business, law and health professions schools, for example. De facto (custom) AA exclusively served White males prior to the 1970s. Other groups have benefitted since then, and White women are the principal beneficiaries today. I'm surprised at your attitude because it's an indication you have bought into a narrative that doesn't make sense for our lineage. Using violence and disdain America has thwarted every effort Black Americans have made at collective self-determination. And we have always done what we could with what little had. Individual self-determination is important, we have significantly less means to do it right. We are psychologically damaged, (largely) unhealthy, live in the worst areas, attend the worst schools, have less access to decent amenities, and are the face of mass incarceration. We have not perpetrated this onto ourselves. We're still standing, still making enormous contributions to the cultural, economic. political and scientific life of the country. We created America's stealth economics but citizens don't understand the financial dynamics making this possible, as the teaching of American History (K-12) is white-washed. Furthermore it's a crime in many states to teach the rigor and specificity of Black American History (which is American History). Criminalizing it put a dagger in the minds, bodies & souls of NBAs and others. And we're not going to tolerate it. Back to AA: Its goal was to help integrate NBAs into every facet of American life. Enter WHITE SUPREMACY MATTERS. Some interlopers today have chosen to ride that elephant, to tightly hitch their wagons to it, egged on (largely) by organized White Supremacists (WS) in law firms and other organizations/some of the WS are Black. All are engaged in squashing an effort helping the NBA lineage seed and water an effort to help it grow collective self-determination. Those used by these WS believe they're entitled to seats that have gone to NBAs. They are not entitled to them. Other efforts could address their grievances. Because the country has not made those efforts NBAs experience the recriminations and other fu*kery, making the devil himself blush. Even he knows "history is prologue." His senior advisors in the aforementioned law firms and other organizations haven't gotten the memo. With due respect. (KFB 042123)
For the children of faculty issue, it is an employment benefit. Just like health insurance. And it would apply best for the professor and secretary to the gardener and janitor. However, setting performance standards should not be waived.
The children of faculty preference seems OK.
Legacy preferences seem like the modern day version of the grandfather rule used in Jim Crow election laws.
A mechanism to provide a preference to primarily white scions without actually mentioning race.
@@chrislieu6757 Address the greed. Let them buy their way in. Let one rich dude getting his unqualified kid in make a scholarship for 3 qualified but less financially advantaged.
@Axileus How are they both in violation of the law?
How are either of them in violation of the law?
This is the first time I have heard the Harvard and Yale vacuuming up all the black talent argument, even though I have experienced it first hand as a Cornell Engineering graduate. The talent pool really isn’t that deep. By the time you get to a lower Ivy League like Cornell, we are getting the dredge of the affirmative action talent pool and people who can barely do arithmetic. I saw this first hand as a freshman engineer.
Well done folks for speaking the truth!! Cornell is a Top 20 school on any metric and any ranking. I’d really hate to see what it’s like at a Top 50 or Top 100 school.
atrocious audio balancing on this one, host shouldn't be twice as loud as the panelists
Perhaps if these elite universities are really that concerned about diversity, they might focus more on not regarding legacies or donations made once race is out of the picture, not a choice anymore
Not realistic. Money makes the world go round. Stop the donations and low income programs dry up. You get fewer low income due to lack of financing. I am pro buying your way into colleges and universities for just that reason.
Despite the fact that ALDC are more qualified in some way, there is still a preference isn't there. Large or small, there should not be an unearned advantage by virtue of who your parents are.
Two things, With Abolishment Slavery, the Exemption was Conviction and Incarceration. Resulting in arrest and convictions for trivial infractions ie Slave Labor. With judges, State Attorneys Police on a regular basis being Outed for Racist behavior, it is fare we can with an assured certainty expect a return to a previous era Placism in America.
Diversity exists in several forms outside of thought. Diversity in culture can provide perspectives and objectivity better than like minded people. After removing affirmative action in the University of California, diversity plummeted immediately... What can one do when the infrastructure of one's country makes it difficult for people of your race to advance? Perhaps affirmative action is not the answer, but it definitely does not affect Asian-American students negatively and it does address the problems of diversity. My issue is, most people can sit back and critique Affirmative Action, but they cannot provide another remedy. The leaky pipeline is real, and most professionals in America are either white or Asian. This lack of representation as well as facing racism in professional facilities (read about Ebony McGee, and her book Black Brown and Bruised) is chronically stressful and produces a racial battle fatigue that is indescribable. Imagine the amount of people of color who would not have been accepted without affirmative action. What do you guys say to them when their white counterparts have more of a benefit to education than them simply because the foundations of our country created inequitable access? I wish this debate was centered around the infrastructure of the United States rather than the surface-level argument of race.
The focus on outliers, such as individuals who have great ancestors of Native folks is annoying but honestly irrelevant. The laughter in this video is frustrating, bringing up rare cases of Affirmative action instead of discussing the real questions that people of color want to know. Our entire country was made with the purpose of your race being your entire identity (as the United States continuously defined what it meant to be 'white' or worthy of rights), it was wrong of course but nonetheless, true. Why are we sitting here, questioning the morality of race being your identity when people of color do not have a choice? People of color have no choice but to live life through race because things were forced this way. What it meant to be a person as well as worthy of rights was defined by the United States government and to this day, race still affects people of color's economic stance, their healthcare, their environmental conditions , their quality of life, their mortality rate and other pre-conceived notions. Boo y'all, next time include someone who will challenge your opinions instead of a jerk-circle of yes-men lol.
HERE, HERE. Read, sister-woman.
Please separate your paragraphs for easier reading
Firstly, I would suggest affirmative action based on economic status would be better. If the argument is that minorities come form economically poor situations, then they'll be taken care of but race as the middle man would be eliminated. This takes out a lot of racial resentment but still keeps generally the same "positive" effect as the previous affirmative action.
Secondly, I question the value of the diversity you describe brings to education because you can see how ridiculous colleges like Harvard and Yale have become when they literally tantrum over trigger warnings, Halloween costumes, and basically drive themselves into hysteria whenever they hear an opposing view. What usually happens in these "race-conscious" discussions is that all the white people have to shut up and let the minorities (except Asians) talk and anything other than, "Omg, you're so brave." will be met with scorn and possible retaliation, which we know for a fact has been done to students if they ever spoke out against it. At best, you get a lecture about your white privilege and how awful you are for being born a white person.
Also, in case you're wondering, no, I'm not white.
Look at the stats. There is clear discrimination against Asians. Harvard fought fiercely to keep this secret, but now we know. Thanks to the Supreme Court.
I support SFA 100%.
What a mess you have in the USA!
Greetings from Europe.
I was actually very disappointed by the professional quality of some of the judges. A couple of them are so dumb! As a taxpayer, I am absolutely dismayed.
Cheng T
Expand Please. Thanks
what you mean by that
Now that I know how the sausage is made, I’ve lost my appetite. Take aways: the only diversity that matters is in proportional representation of Blacks…which can be served by admitting ADOS but also Nigerians or Afro Caribbeans…Asians I’ve learned do not contribute to diversity. Conservatives at 8%? Not a problem as ideological diversity is unimportant. Harvard is three or more schools in one - ALDS, minorities and perhaps up to 30% who qualify in their own right based on merit. Of this group they best be supremely qualified (100-300 points higher on standardized testing) lucky and preferably not white; the spots for white applicants are canabalize by those extremely important ALDS and diversity spots. Prediction: SELL squash/rowing/fencing academies!
Response to "the1ne" -- Affirmative action (AA) programs were intended for Native Black Americans (NBAs). That effort got them into the trades, law enforcement, fire departments, various lower-level supervisory and administrative positions, and opened up management and the professions to those qualified via experience and/or educational opportunities -- to attend graduate business, law and health professions schools, for example. Etc. Prior to the 1970s AA served White males on an exclusive, de facto* basis. Other groups have benefitted since then, and today White women are the principal beneficiaries. I'm surprised at your attitude because it's an indication you have bought into a narrative that doesn't make sense for our lineage. Using violence and disdain America has thwarted every effort Black Americans have made at collective self-determination. And we have always done what we could with what little had. And while individual self-determination is important, we have significantly less means to do it right. We are damaged psychologically for the depravity the country purposefully perpetrated on us, we live in the worst areas, attend the worst schools, have less access to capital and decent amenities, and are the face of mass incarceration. Etc. And while we are VICTIMS of a horrific disregard we're still standing, still making enormous contributions to the cultural, economic. political and scientific life of the country. For example, we created America's stealth economics, but most folks don't understand the financial dynamics making this possible, as the teaching of American History (K-12) is white-washed and, in many states, it's a crime to teach the breadth and depth of Black American History (which is American History). Criminalizing its rigor and specificity puts daggers in the minds, bodies & souls of NBAs (and many others). And we will not stand for it.
TRUTH/SATIRE:
The affirmative action goal was to help integrate NBAs into every facet of American life. Enter WHITE SUPREMACY MATTERS (WSM). On the advice of its affiliated law firms, student parties to these affirmative action cases chose to squash one piece of a puzzle NBAs use to help effect collective self-determination. Those claimants agreed to be used by WSM because they have determined they're more deserving of seats at UNC (Chapel Hill), and Harvard U (MA), seats which heretofore have been occupied by NBAs and POC**, most of whom thrive, graduate, and do well in life. Other efforts could possibly serve claimants, but they, WSM and the country haven't pursued them. Furthermore NBAs had an outsized role in making those schools possible, but acknowledging as much helps derail their goal of hijacking those seats for themselves.
The recriminations that follow AA affect NBA beneficiaries the most. This makes the devil blush with ecstasy. Decades ago he discovered his WSM-affiliated lawyers torched the memo declaring "past is prologue." His smiling face froze then he fainted and couldn't get up. And here we are. It's no secret he expeditiously rewards them when their eternity beckons, as their complete devotion will enable them to descend into his hot embrace with a spit-fire quickness.
(*de facto/in effect - by right or not, **POC/People of Color, Truth/Satire, KFB 042223)
affirmative action is fking awful lmao
Affirmative action (AA) programs were intended for Native Black Americans (NBAs). That effort got them into the trades, law enforcement, fire departments, various lower-level supervisory and administrative positions, and opened up management and the professions to those qualified via experience and/or educational opportunities --- to attend graduate business, law and health professions schools, for example. De facto (custom) AA exclusively served White males prior to the 1970s. Other groups have benefitted since then, and White women are the principal beneficiaries today. I'm surprised at your attitude because it's an indication you have bought into a narrative that doesn't make sense for our lineage. Using violence and disdain America has thwarted every effort Black Americans have made at collective self-determination. And we have always done what we could with what little had. Individual self-determination is important, we have significantly less means to do it right. We are psychologically damaged, (largely) unhealthy, live in the worst areas, attend the worst schools, have less access to decent amenities, and are the face of mass incarceration. We have not perpetrated this onto ourselves. We're still standing, still making enormous contributions to the cultural, economic. political and scientific life of the country. We created America's stealth economics but citizens don't understand the financial dynamics making this possible, as the teaching of American History (K-12) is white-washed. Furthermore it's a crime in many states to teach the rigor and specificity of Black American History (which is American History). Criminalizing it put a dagger in the minds, bodies & souls of NBAs and others. And we're not going to tolerate it.
Back to AA: Its goal was to help integrate NBAs into every facet of American life. Enter WHITE SUPREMACY MATTERS. Some interlopers today have chosen to ride that elephant, to tightly hitch their wagons to it, egged on (largely) by organized White Supremacists (WS) in law firms and other organizations/some of the WS are Black. All are engaged in squashing an effort helping the NBA lineage seed and water an effort to help it grow collective self-determination. Those used by these WS believe they're entitled to seats that have gone to NBAs. They are not entitled to them. Other efforts could address their grievances. Because the country has not made those efforts NBAs experience the recriminations and other fu*kery, making the devil himself blush. Even he knows "history is prologue." His senior advisors in the aforementioned law firms and other organizations haven't gotten the memo. With due respect. (KFB 042123)
@@kevinboone2178 so why do you think discriminating against Asians is ok