Bellator’s Royce Gracie & Ken Shamrock Recount UFC 1 and UFC 5; Debate Rules + Strategy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ธ.ค. 2015
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Im with ken in this one
Because most people are excuse makers
Royce Gracie: "I beat him before, and I will beat him again" pre fight interview of UFC 5. Royce Gracie: " I never said I could beat him" the above interview
I always thought Rocye Gracie was a legend, looking at the truth though ruins all that. His family made up the rules as they went along and changed them right in the middle of fights.
@@Damitsall I still have to give the family credit for revolutionizing the Martail Arts.
@@Damitsall I lost respect when I found out about him doing steroids.
@@adamwarlock3530 what about ken? He wasn’t on roids?? 😅😅
@@titomish5914 ken didn’t build his reputation as a smaller guy who beat giants through technique. Steroids ruins Royce’s whole facade
Royce has no argument against Ken's rational point, it was very clear that ken won the 2nd fight too,
Totally. He just shrugs his shoulders and ignores the claims and direct questions. Slimy
Nah! ...bigger, heavier, roided out his mind. In the top position he buried his head and did nothing.
@@lukeskyrunner95he’s just heard a million excuses from ken
Ken Shamrock is right.... That's why you can't wear Gi, nor shoes in a MMA fight.
They used to allow shoes but you weren't allowed to kick. So obviously most fighters wanted the ability to kick.
Art Jimmerson wore boxing shoes in his fight with Royce at the same event
They let Jimmerman wear shoes, because boxers don't know how to kick or wrestler.
I always thought Ken was a fantastic fighter!
Kens got a point with the shoes being a weapon and the gi not
But one can also say Shamrock's use of steroids was a weapon for him as well. Theres a reason they are illegal in sports.
Shoes did not cost him the fight, he thought he could fall out of Royce's guard for a leg lock, he never tried that nonsense again.
Royce was not wearing shoes either. Ken was beat fair in the 1st fight.
It was a very girly thing to say. Please don't take my magic shoes off, I am going to lose my enchantment just like Cinderella 😂
@@kpllc4209 This would be a really good point if I had said "The shoes cost him the fight" 👍
Say what you want Kens gameplan was beautiful that second fight!
After hearing about some of the shady shit Royce and his family pulled I can understand why he didn't last in the UFC. Shamrock was a true legend and far surpassed Royce in the MMA world even after all that stuff went down.
Gracie was a genius and simply used everything at his disposal to creatively beat Ken .... kens mad , I don’t blame him , it’s humiliating getting beat by a 176 pound Royce
@@humanactivated1017 He bent the rules and was allowed to get away with it. Every stunt he pulled was prohibited for everyone else.
@@rebal180 that’s smart , gives him a huge advantage countering for the 30 pound weight disadvantage .
Ken won zero tournaments.
@@ilikepushrodv8s210 Royce won zero championships.
5:07
"He came here to play for the draw."
Uh, no dude, he came there for a 3hr fight and called for an additional 3 minutes after your brother broke contract twice.
Ken Shamrock entered this competition with an excellent strategy. Gracie says, "He fought for the draw, not the win." This very much reminds me of the episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation called "Peak Performance." In this episode, Data decides to play a game called Strategema against a person named Kolrami, a member of an alien race known as the Zakdorn. The Zakdorn are considered the most intelligent strategists in the galaxy. People have Data play Kolrami, because they want to see the arrogant Kolrami lose. However, Kolrami wins. In a rematch, Data did not play to "win." Instead, Data played for a "Draw." As a result, Kolrami eventually throws in the towel and leaves. Everyone says, "Data, you won!"
That is exactly what happened with Shamrock vs Gracie. The first time we saw Shamrock play to "win," even though the rules were against him and very much favored Gracie. The second time we saw Shamrock play for a "draw." This made it so Gracie was the "loser."
The Gracie family can no longer arrogantly say, "No one in our family has ever lost a fight." Now, we have seen multiple members of the Gracie family lose fights.
The Gracies have verifiable losses in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 90s and in the 2000s. The 80s is the only decade I can't find a loss for.
The Star Trek analogy is absolutely hilarious great comment
Sakuraba says hello
They never stated that the family was undefeated. They said their STYLE was undefeated against any other style. Helio lost to Santana(his student). Yes they lost to those who studied Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Helio also lost to Kimura BUT that wasn't Vale Tudo. It was a judo/jiu-jitsu match...
Matt Hughes showed what Royce is like without a gi
Matt Hughes won from what the Gracies taught him. Show some respect. Did you know the Gi coulda been used on Gracie as well?? Or would it even be Royces fault for not being told anything about the gi?
No, Matt Hughes showed what Royce is like against a Division One All-American Wrestler who is allowed to protect his hands and has also made a significant study of submissions and striking. Hughes was simply the far superior athlete and had far superior training for the venue in which they fought. Gracie Jiu-jitsu by itself is not designed for modern MMA.
@@MrMZaccone You are right Matt was definitely the best mma fighter. Mma fighter. Style vs multiple styles and if you heard what Matt said, he told everyone that Gracie JiuJitsu is how Matt evolved and even knew submissions. As far as your comment about it not working look at some of the greatest fighters in the world..they are JiuJitsu experts, and UFC fighters are still learning under the Gracie lineage to this day and are dominating. This isn't even a debate.
@@monkkenyon2539 You're right, it's not a debate, it's a straw-man argument on your part. When did I say anything about Gracie Jiu-jitsu "not working"? That would be never. I said that "BY ITSELF", it is not designed for modern mma. This is incontrovertible.
@@MrMZaccone Really? Not designed for modern mma. Again, it is still being taught by the Gracies and is still be implemented to this day. What Matt uses as far as submissions goes is what Gracie and his family brought to America and thanks to him most people in mma, especially UFC use it to destroy people. Staw manning is actually what you are doing not me. Nobody needs to look far to see Matt Huges is one of the most dominant fighter of his time, but all the greats in the sport have said they owe what they do to the Gracie family. But go ahead and tell the UFC that while they laugh at you.
Shamrock won the second fight
He didn't win the second fight. He lost 2 out of 3 and tied 1
Raccoon Daddy well he lost one by a tool. Lost another by a low blow. And tied one but left Gracie with a crazy black eye.
@@JohnDoe-yz1uf He lost one by the rules he accepted to fight by. He tied one but came out looking like a giant steroided pussy that used his vastly superior strength to just lie on Gracie. And the third, yes he took a low blow, but when the ref didnt see it, he just kept whining and let himself be hit in the head. Even if we discount the last fight as a ref error (since I dont think even Ken "master of excuses" Shamrock claims it was intentional), he stands at 1 loss and 1 draw.
@@alanfrost75 Gracie is shit
@@franmadaraki616 You are welcome to that absurd opinion, but it nonetheless does not change the fact that he was better than Shamrock.
The shamrock name is royalty in MMA, Ken and Frank both badass
They cannot be compared with the Gracie name
Royce was certainly a great fighter and pioneer of the sport, but Ken Shamrock was and is a legend and the better fighter, athlete and person, Ken did more with less.
Ken had 25 pounds on him. How is that less?
@@Jpeterson7 Not to mention being juiced like a Mexican racehorse.
Jpeterson7 is right. Ken had 25 or 30 pounds on Royce depending on the fight and was juiced like a Mexican racehorse. How does that make him the better fighter having lost two out of three to Royce?
@@MrMZaccone Royce tested positive for roids too btw. when he fought sakuraba
@@elrifle24 Yes he did. Considering all the roid-monsters he faced and defeated back in the day, before there was any testing, I'm not terribly surprised. Disappointed? Yes. Surprised? No. Keep in mind, there wasn't even testing the first time he faced Sakuraba.
Good explanation from Ken.
"How am i supposed to fight somebody that doesn't want to fight me back" - tell that to kazushi sakuraba
I love gi's.
I remember thinking it was BS when they announced the fight a draw,
Clearly Ken won that fight.
Anyone in doubt go back and watch,
and judge the fight in its entirety!!!!
Shamrock won 60-45 all f*****g day
+Vegeta Seven You obviously don't remember that fight... LMAO. You either KO, TKO, submit, or draw. There are no rounds to score. There aren't even judges.
Ken fought that way to avoid getting submitted. That's why the first fight was more honest.
@@xfactorb25222 If there is a time limit then the fight needs to be scored so there can be a decision. Gracie wanted a time limit, therefore there should've been scoring.
I love both of these guys. Those were some great times back then!!
I believe Ken, the Gracies back in the day use to do the rule changing like they wear the GI and no shoes for others BS all the time. I am a Gracie fan not a Gracie hater but they did do good marketing to make themselves look good.
+VAPOR BADTREKK what ever dude the truth hurts
Sakuraba beat several Gracies when they wore the GI. lol Ken is just crying. lol
Too bad you believe Ken when the evidence says he's just making shit up.
@big dog Nonsense. There are almost no punches harder to avoid than those of a ranked boxer and Royce took Art Jimmerson down without getting hit even once. He would have done exactly the same thing to Frazier, Rosier, or Gordeau, he'd trained for years to do exactly that. The fact that Gordeau broke both his hand and his foot in the first match illustrates the weakness of striking in a real fight.
@just Bfree Ever met a Gracie, studied with one or had a personal relationship with one?
Hey, they took my hat from me so I know how you feel ken. If I’m 50 lbs heavier than my opponent and I can’t stop him then it doesn’t matter wtf I have on or don’t.
Ken invented ground n pound
And roids for mma
@@titomish5914 gracies invented bribing the refs
I’m a huge fan of Ken, but I’d credit Mark Coleman as being the originator of Ground N Pound.
Ken has a valid point it's not an excuse
It's more than an excuse, it's a lie.
Cool interviews. Great idea to have these two ufc pioneers do a pro wrestling-like shoot interview. Kudos.
Royce didnt have shit to say when asked is the gi a weapon royce talking ab wieght bhahaha
I watched that "super" fight, when it happened. Gracie(s) succeeded prior to that because he (they) wait, they step back, they wait for the opponent to attack and open themselves up then actually fight. Now Hoyce wants to hide behind GJ as a 'style' to do nothing offensively? Hold up, Ken waited defensively but still beat Hoyce's ass in UFC V. You say Ken is the one who did nothing? Hoyce sits back and fake punches and fake kicks to get the opponent to actually attack so they are open. Sorry Hoyce, Ken figured out your family's 80+ year tradition in one single fight. He then came back and dished up some of your own style AND at the same time beat your ass so that you had to be carried out of the arena.
used to love the gracies until i watched this... damn cheaters!
@D core as if , Japanese fighters get obliterated so bad they can’t even get into the UFC . Sakuraba was great but that was 1999 bruh
"I developed the ground and pound" = "I developed the lay and pray"
BlowJobJutsu
the should have let Shamrock wear his shoes. or Gracie should have taken off his Gi and Shamrock no shoes... Peace out.
2 old warriors relieving the past
Gracie are dirty fighters.
The Gracies attempt to teach what works in a real fight. What does "dirty" have to do with it?
@@MrMZaccone dirty has everything to do with it when he was not teaching anyone in the fights where they would change the rules to his favor, I am a fan of the man, he has done great things and I have been training under his style for a long time, but it is what it is when he takes the mans wrestling shoes away cause it is a weapon then the gi should have also not been allowed, it was clearly used as a weapon to choke him with.........
@@garypugh4279 "not teaching"??? WTF are you talking about? Now you want him to teach his opponents or he's a dirty fighter? That's idiotic. Of course the Gi is a weapon and if you know how to use it, it can be used against the man wearing it too, just like any clothing. You're making zero sense. I, interestingly enough, am not a fan of the man and I studied with him, in person in 1997, '98, and '99. I am however a fan of what the study of self-defense based jiu-jitsu can do to provide one with real self-defense. Royce's early fights were a clear and incontrovertible demonstration of this. First, no one took Ken's wrestling shoes away, he's simply lying, and second, in their first fight, Royce didn't use the gi to choke with. That was only in the second fight where Ken wore his precious wrestling shoes and still couldn't do better than a draw, even with an artificial standind restart. The argument is a complete non-starter.
@@MrMZaccone you are a fucking idiot, it is a fact they took his wresting shoes cause it was a weapon there for if no weapons are allowed the go should have been taking also, so go troll your stupid shit somewhere that someone's gives a crap , cause I sure dont care about your bullshit....
Of course Ken is right, there’s a reason you can’t wear a gi or shoes now. They’re both weapons/tools/liabilities. MMA has safer rules now. It’s the simplest thing to comprehend. Loved them both back in the day and they’re both legends. Royce knows damn well a gi is not usable against him, if you grab someone’s gi you’re leaving all their limbs free to do whatever they want to you. If Kens hands are gripping his gi Royce would be free to put him into multiple submissions. Double edged sword all in favor of Gracie.
Thats not actually true. Shoes 👟 are colossal advantage over barefoot oponent. With shoes you will move a hell of lot faster than without. And will be way more explosive. While white pijamas with black belt is quite of disadvantage. On the second fight Shamrock beat BJJ defence very easy. You not gonna convince me that if i grab the pijamas he will manage to do something. Simply lift him up completely ignore what will do to me and slam him on the ground. 40 pounds lighter? I will throw him like useless object in the trash can. Suplex. Side throw, overhand throw, windmill throw, leg throws... all kinds of throws. 40 pounds lighter? I will lift him up even with only one hand. Simply grab ANY part of his body and smash him on the ground. The gi pijamas i can grab and put them on his face. Literally will beat him with his own dress. Or belt. I can grab his belt and pull. No way 40 pounds lighter than to have even remote chance to resist. Pull leg trip trap. Throw him on the ropes. Even grab the pijamas and lift up and slam down. In other words grab something, lift up and slam down. When slammed down, lift up again and slam down...
Team Shamrock here, kudos to the Gracies for putting their name and the name of BJJ out there, but it was mostly a very elaborated publicity stunt to make them look invincible.
The gi is an advantage but a disadvantage u can hold on to it in a clinch
The Gracies had a hand on the rules of fighting and Royce is complaining about the unfair weight difference...oh really
Gracie's verifiably full of shit. First of all, in the fight in question, the weight differential was 25 lbs NOT "40 to 50 lbs" like he asserts. Second of all, the purpose of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu IS to be able to subdue people who are much much heavier and stronger than you. Even the Gracie Patriarch, Helio said that. So WTF would he say , "If you can't beat someone 40 to 50 lbs lighter than you, blah, blah, blah" If the person you are fighting, weighs 40 to 50 pounds lighter than you but knows Jiu-Jitsu, theoretically they are SUPPOSED to beat you, so there is NO SHAME in losing to such a person WHATSOVER. In addition, it is MUCH MUCH easier to beat somebody who weighs 128 if YOU weigh 178 (Like Gracie said he "always" has), than for somebody who weighs 300 pounds to beat somebody who weights 260 pounds. That is just an incredibly stupid statement made my Royce Gracie.. And lastly, being heavier is not always or necessarily synonymous with being stronger, better, quicker, more skilled or more experienced. That was just a really really ignorant thing to say.
Ken says at 03:33 "He wraps a gi around my neck and he chokes me", and that gave me the impression he was sugesting the Royce applied a sleeve choke, instead of a RNC. From the footage of the fight, it's kinda hard to tell because of the angle, since on the moment of the choke the fighters were filmed from behind, but you can still see Royce's right arm in front of Ken's neck and Royce's left hand passing in front of the right hand and on top of Ken's head in classic RNC fashion, even the comentator of the fight tells it like so, plus i've never heard anyone saying it was a sleeve choke (Ezekiel choke). Maybe what Ken meant to say is that Royce was using the gi to hold on to the position (wich Royce doesn't deny) and then choked him (via rear naked choke). The weird thing is on wikipedia the result of the fight is registered as sleeve choke (maybe the person who wrote it saw this interview and got confused?!?), but on sherdog it's registered as RNC. So after all the gi was used as a tool throughout the fight, but it wasn't what got Shamrock choked. It was interesting to hear Ken Shamrock's take on it, but i wonder if he had the false impression, during the choke, that he was being choked with the gi, probably because he didn't even knew he could get choked from that position, and just stuck with that opinion after so long.
Exactly!!!! They didn't even announce that he was being choked cause it was all so new.
I never knew Ken was so salty and delusional.
@@thef.a.c.e.foundation8316 ask Yoshida
I recall at some point, they let guys wear shoes as long as they didn't kick. Not sure if you can still do that.
You can use the gee against the person wearing it but I think it has advantage by dealing with with sweat. It gets slippery when both opponents are sweating.
Ken 100% correct.
Ken 0% correct because he's lying six ways to Sunday.
Ken is 💯 on this argument
@@MrMZaccone no it's the other way around
@@jerrywoods4066 Be specific.
@@MrMZaccone ken is telling it like it is
Gracies went to Japan and got ALL their asses kicked because they cant Rig PRIDE FIGHTING
Except Rickson won at both Pride 1 and Pride 4. You're full of shit.
jlpe lmkh patiently waiting on your response regarding Rickson 😶
@Jake-And you don't think Pride had rigged fights?
It’s sad there’s still so much animosity between these 2. Reminds me of Ali and Frazier. Bitter tension til the very end. In the perfect world I’d imagine Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, and Dan Severn hanging out at the bar, doing shows together, and being best friends
robertg305 and so what if he cry? he will still beat yo ass with tears coming down his face
Don't forget about Don Frye. I could see him with them too.
Severn and Shamrock are on good terms.
Not a fan of the Gracie's..I will side with Ken any day of the week.
Ken was right..
Shamrock brings up total legit beefs
Except he's lying so no he doesn't.
@@MrMZaccone how is he lying. Royce Gracie took steroids. It's proven so who's to say he wasn't taking steroids the whole time.
@@honkingantalope Roflmao! Have you seen Royce?
@@honkingantalope Plus, nobody took Ken's shoes away. He was told the same thing as every other fighter: Kick or wear shoes but not both. That's just one example of Ken lying.
Watching Hughes beat Gracie like a child tells you all you need to know.
Hughes would not have beaten Kimo or Dan Severn, both of whom were beaten by Royce.
@@douggherkin Sure he would have. He could have easily fought 185 back then. Considering the era.
1:25 end of the story Ken.
Royce is a jiujitsu practitioner that won purely on his art form and showed the world just how effective Brazilian Jiujitsu was. More like an infomercial for his art and it worked. And Gracie's had to protect him in the event but Shamrock was probably the first MMA fighter with decent all around skills. In the long run it worked bc had Royce lost UFC would not have become what it is today, along with ground submission fighting.
great points. all is as it should be for the popularity of the sport.
5:22 So I guess Royce flushed his head in the toilet after his fight with Hideo Tokoro
Typical Gracie’s.....
Course excuses only apply to people beside them...
Gracie lost the second fight and they know how shady they were with the rules, etc.
I watched the second match between Shamrock and Gracie. The audience may have thought it was boring, because it remained on the ground the entire time; however, there is no doubt Shamrock "won" the fight in the sense that Shamrock hurt/injured Royce Gracie far more than than Shamrock was hurt/injured by Gracie. There is no doubt Gracie was "Saved by the Bell." If there had not been a "Time Limit" or even if the "Time Limit" had been 60 Minutes, we likely would have seen either Gracie submit or the corner of Gracie throw in the towel.
Shamarock weighed 25 pounds more than Gracie and still could not get a tap 😂
I like both quite a bit from back in the day. My opinion used to be that I thought Ken whined a lot about it. I used to think "c'mon Ken. You're better than that." Then I saw a Bill Wallace interview. He was the announcer for UFC 1. He's also a martial arts icon. Anyway, he had some astute opinions that kind of changed my mind to Ken's way of thinking. I still respect both guys quite a bit. No spoilers on what Bill Wallace's opinions were. If anyone's interested ya can google "Bill Wallace talks about UFC1."
They are both legends !!!
They said No rules
But The Gracies gave Ken Rules
Yeah, in the first UFC, Art Jimmerson (the boxer) was allowed to wear shoes, but Shamrock wasn’t allowed to wear shoes. Doesn’t make sense....🤔
They knew ken was a threat
Wait, what? Did he just say he should have used the Gi as an advantage? Did he know the Gi could be used as a weapon then?
The gi is a weapon and offers many strategical advantages
2 good fighters for sure
Btw, if Gracie bjj is about defending yourself from someone stronger then why didn't Royce do that? Ken man handled Royce until he had to be helped off. Be a man and just admit you got you ass kicked so we can all move on dude.
Shamrok has legit points. In the first fight he wasn't sure about if he can use gracie's gi against them, because it could have been seen as he is playing unfair, but the gracie used it as a weapon. In their second fight he wanted to completely dismantle BJJ, so that is why played the slow game, which actually gave the gracie more time, and more opportunities to win. Shamrok was saying in this fight "c'mon bro, what you gona do, what you gona do, here i play your game why aren't you winning still". Also no shoes and no rest in between matches, while the gracie uses gi as a weapon/tool, and had a deaccent rest before the match with Shamrok (15+ minutes), while Shamrok didn't even had the time to change his clothes.
And the gracie side of the story is of course lies and damage control "i can use my gi, against people who never trained in gi, but they can't use their wrestling shoes, but still i play fair and stuff".
Gracie could at least admit Shamrock got screwed on this, and Shamrock definitely won the second fight
Ken has a point when he says his boot was a weapon and the gi isnt considered one when it is. If you're gonna wear a Gi then dont use it for a choke, if youre gonna wear a boot, then dont use it to stomp, thats why todays game doesnt allow both gi or boots.
+English Hooligan Believe me, Gracie took the same shit that time! Maybe not for muscle grow but painkillers and stuff like that. They are still standard in the sport.
+English Hooligan try to read again. Its not about muscle mass.
it was a rear naked choke, he didn't use the gi to choke him at all. Don't know what Ken is dreaming about but they've probably both been hit too many times to be the people you ask to recount the fight. Watch the fight, he does not use the gi to choke. He uses his arms. lol
Watch the fight again he uses the gi to chock him.
That's why using the gi now is not allowed
What you said is silly because you can use the GI in a fight while you cant with a shoe. lol Keep in mind Sakuraba beat several Gracies while they tried to use there GI.
knowledge was the weapon
The initial UFC matches were massive set up to give advantage to a family that did not have any other credentials other than what was self appointed, hanging up or sitting on a table etc. in their training room, to show off how good they supposedly were with miss matched fighter and playing around with the rules to suit and gain a family win each time a member of it entered the ring.
I like listening to the guys
For me i didnt even - until some months ago - learn that at ufc1 the choke was with the Gi. Bad english maybe, but i think that fact wasnt displayed too much. The camera angle didnt make it easy for someone not trained or educated like me to understand it.
If Royce was fighting as a young man at the peak of his career in the MMA today, he would never win a fight.
Styles make fights & in that day it was discipline A vs discipline B. Unfortunately those two did not mix well. What was made clear was that BJJ was ahead of everything else. Gracies stayed primarily to it & other fighters expanded their knowledge to multiple disciplines which is why the Gracies are only part of history now. Ken was something to behold in Pancrase.
Yup, bjj got out of the blocks first. Then videos/cross training,youtube and exposure to jiu jitsu changed everything. Royce never advanced his game and Matt Hughes showed what a cross trained martial artist looks like against a straight up jiu jitsu guy
Lol, how many legit martial artists were invited??? I'm thinking it was basically only 2 with real grappling experience and that was Ken and Royce. It was all set up for Royce to win.
Ken is such an honest man, a real fighter!!...
Ken is a documented liar and a fraud.
Honest? 😅😅
Also we really dont know when Royce started using PEDS. Just because he got caught in the Sakuraba fight, it doesn't mean that he started using there.
Yeah that's bullshit, the guy literally choked Shamrock out using the gi and he's going to sit there and act like wearing the gi didn't give him an unfair advantage. He's a great fighter, but that's bullocks. Gracie used the gi throughout their second fight as well to keep Shamrock from fully mounting him during the fight, it gave Gracie a firmer hold on Shamrock during the fight. Every single one of their fights is controversial and the controversy always favored Gracie.
I''m with Royce on this one. The GI is a weapon but it's a double edge sword. It could have easily been used again Royce. Don't forget Royce got choked out by a clock choke before. And there second fight, Royce was really the champion and Ken was the challenger. It's up to him to take it away from Royce. He couldn't finish a fighter 30 lbs less than him.
Wasn’t it a RNC? Not a lapel or sleeve choke?
Correct Murilo!....
Ken has a good point but so does Royce. I never saw ken fight someone 40 pounds heavier then him.
When he beat Dan Severn by submission in their first fight he was outweighed by exactly 40lbs. Severn-260 Shamrock-220
How much heavier was he ?
Tank Abbott was "fresh" and Taktarov was carried out of the ring. But I'm pretty sure Taktarov won that fight.
both guys did jack. royce can't say he did anything offensive in that fight, his whole style is to lay on his back. his face was completely mashed up though you can't deny that.
His face didn't get mashed up until they stood them up after 30 minutes. When the ref stood them up and they added a 5 minute overtime Ken got in a good punch and gave Royce a black eye. Then when it went back to the ground Ken was rubbing on the eye to fuck it up even more. That is not a win.
All I hear is excuses he said he prepared for a three hour fight and then complained about a extra three minutes
Shamrock wouldve gotten a close decision in the 2nd fight/so 1-1 , a tie overall and they are two of the best ever. No need for an argument :)
I'm gonna be impartial and call it like how I seen those first two fights numerous times and that's a decisive victory for Gracie in the first fight and a decisive victory for Shamrock in the second fight. Don't care that they called the second fight a draw because I feel Shamrock out worked and controlled Gracie besides damaging his face and body.
Ken is spot on. Gracie's are the most overrated ever. Earlier UFCs were set up for Gracie's by Gracie's. Royce showed what he was once rules weren't made by his family. Matt Hughes showed all that needed showed once the Gracie's didn't run the fights. Their last fight was Gracie doing what he did best kicking people in the nuts repeatedly. Fixing rules, kicking nuts, & pulling hair was Gracie's ways. Shamrock is the real deal & the first true mixed martial arts fighter in UFC.
Royce didnt take off his gee and strangle Ken with it..but I agree that Ken should have been allowed to wear shoes. I thought that in their second fight Ken was tying up the fight and Royce was hitting him in the side head, but Ken didn't move and was tying up the fight.
Heres where Gracie fools us. He says the gi is a disadvantage when wearing one-true-but, he knew Ken didn't practice, or know about brazilian jujitsu . This was the 90s...
I've lost respect for Royce as far as being a fair competitor and a sportsman. I respect and train juijitsu.
I like them both
I side with Ken. But Royce does have a point. Sakuraba used his gi against him no problem.
That's why the gracies stayed away from the Vale Tudo tournies
In their first fight Royce didn't use his gi to choke Ken 🤦watch the footage, you can clearly see Royce's hand slip behind Ken's head to secure a RNC from the side.
ROYCE IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, THE DUDE KEN JUS HUGGING GRACIE NOT LETTING GO OF BRAZILIAN JUJITSU SEEMS TO ME KEN WAS AFRAID OF GETTING CHOKED OUT AGAIN. GRACIE AT 178LBS DEFEATED SOME OF THE BEST TRUE HEAVYWEIGHTS (SEVERN,KIMO)AMONG OTHERS.BIG WEIGHT DIFFERENCE N GRACIE FOUGHT N CHOKED EM ALL OUT ,BADASS 178.
I don't know what to say, man. I am not a wrestler, I know next to nothing about wrestling, I don't know how important the shoes are in the overall strategy and movement. People could argue that Royce was barefooted too. People could argue that Sakuraba didn't need shoes either. I want to say this though: If you don't let Shamrock bring the shoes, Royce shouldn't have been allowed the gi either. If you wrap up the gi around your opponents neck, isn't that a weapon? I'm not taking Ken's side (although I still believe sometimes he tries to find excuses) but that's my opinion. Anyway, the Gracies owned the organization so of course everything was tweaked so Royce could have the best chances to win (included the fighters that participated). Had UFC 1 failed, it would've been the biggest disaster for the Gracies. They had lost other fights in the past, but this event was huge, it was on tape (or on TV as well), it's not the same as some fight that has no video.
But anyway, I give credit to the old school Gracies for making BJJ so popular around the world. Like this anybody can train, in any corner of the world. UFC 1 was the biggest marketing for a martial art ever in history and it worked in people's favor in the end. Above Ken vs Royce, above the rules, the changing the rules a day before etc. We all benefit from this art being popular everywhere and not just in Brazil. Too bad that many gyms don't teach Gracie Combatives. I remember I talked to a club here in my city, I asked them if they had self-defense classes or Gracie Combatives and the dude there didn't even know wtf I was talking about. He told me: "But you could come, first class is free, you are going to learn technique." Yes, that's right, but competition jiu-jitsu and jiu-jitsu for events like UFC 1 are not always the same thing. I believe that a martial art should provide the self-defense (street fights, defending yourself in altercations etc.) and real fighting (jiu-jitsu vs karate, jiu-jitsu vs other arts type of thing) before it takes BJJ world championships into consideration. Some moves that work well in BJJ vs BJJ can expose you to strikes in a fight. I am not at an age where I want to make competing in BJJ my top priority. My top priority is to learn how to defend myself. Everything else is a bonus for me.
"Dude I'm 178 pounds, if I fight somebody 40 pounds lighter and i do not beat that person, I'll put my head on the toilet and I'll flush it"
Frank seems like a cool guy
It it had only been Royce, I would give the benefit of the doubt to Shamrock. But Ken, over the years became Mr. Excuse Guy: just watch his fights against Tito Ortiz, Don Frye, Sakuraba, Kimbo Slice, and so many others.
He also has an excuse for the Dan Severn rematch. He says they weren't supposed to throw punches so he didn't and Dan did. His excuse was he didn't want to set a bad example for the children LMAO
I hope Ken Wins,
Ken Shamrock is 100% correct. The rules of the UFC were not fair at all. The rules of the UFC were set up in a way that completely favored the fighting style of the Gracie family. This is no surprise, because the Gracie family are the ones who started up the UFC business organization and made the rules.
The rules with the clothes and shoes are just a part of it. For example, there were rules saying there was no biting, and no scratching with fingers.
The reason for this is because if a person who lacked grappling skills, such as Mike Tyson, were to fight Royce Gracie, we would see Tyson quickly lose in the UFC with this unfair rules.
However, if Tyson and Gracie fought in the real world with no rules, we would see Tyson BITE Gracie very quickly if the fight went to the ground! We would also see Tyson scratching the eyes of Royce Gracie out of his face, and ripping the ears of Royce Gracie off. Gracie would let go of Tyson very quickly!
At that point, Royce Gracie would realize just how worthless his fighting style is in the real world on the streets.
2:00 Well it is a good excuse
Royce should know that size never matters. A skinny guy can knock out a bigger guy with one punch. Its called technique. I remember that second fight well, Shamrock kicked his ass.
I agree with the argument that Ken makes. If you use your gi to choke your opponent, the gi at that moment becomes a weapon. By definition, a weapon, arm, fist, or armament is any implement or device that can be used with the intent to inflict damage or harm. I like Royce and respect his accomplishments, but he's wrong. Also, Ken's shoes would only qualify as weapons if he had used them to kick Royce, which he didn't.
i remember it being a rear naked not a gi choke
Exactly what I saw, the Gi wasn't what was wrapped around Ken's neck, but he was holding onto the Gi to keep the choke on. In a way neither is lying, Royce used the Gi to complete the choke but didn't choke him with the Gi itself. They are arguing semantics really
The Gi was a weapon eh? lol He rear naked choked you Ken, not a gi choke.
honestly I think Ken had advantage that Gracie wore gi. Cuz its easier to grab or hold oponent but at the same time Ken had only underwear and sweaty body. Also both guys didnt have shoes and time limit was because TV stream needed to be limited. I respect Ken but his excuses are full of shit.
Sakuraba used the GI against the Gracies tho.
murilo ninj
If a jujutsuka is allowed to wear his gi for the benefit of his style, why is the shoot wrestler not allowed to wear shoes for the benefit of his style?
Until you can honestly answer that, you have nothing.
misterrr7 same to royce too, which prevent ken from slipping out and control ur opponent, which makes it easier to choke ur opponents, but royce learn THE HARD WAY after he faced Sakuraba lol where sak use his gi to his advantage. That's why these days royce is not wearing gi. Lol.
@TheGoogler77 Jesus Fucking Christ! 25yrs later and you people cannot understand how Ken was choked? You can google the pictures, it was a rear naked choke, NOT a fucking Gi choke, goddamn! wtf? smh!