To answer the last question, I just like owning real cards. I like the art and supporting the game economy. I like Damaged Cards and finding good deals. All my Cards and Decks are real and it makes me happy to look at my beat up cards that have a home.
To the claim about og duals being the "end all be all" for cedh, i 100% agree. I played a game where i got a comment from another player because i played a temple of epiphany turn 1. I said it entering tapped isn't that relevant and pushed my scry, and then proceeded to turn 2 my commander (narset, enlightened master) because of what i drew after the scry (jeweled lotus). I won that game next turn and made sure to tell him that was all because of the scry.
85.91% of decks, according to their data. Higher than both City of Brass and Mana Confluence. Not trying to bash them or the data, but I 100% agree it should be on the list.
It's wonderfully ironic seeing the difference between what Legacy players recommend for starting in the format versus the difference between PWP's recommended cards selection. Legacy players will absolutely tell you to buy out a playset of OG Dual Lands and all the Force of Wills you need.
Those are very different formats. Loosing 2 life is way less relevant in cEDH than in Legacy. Comparing cEDH to something like Highlander is a way more apt. We have gotten so many good fetchable lands in the past few years you can easily get away with not having duals. We don't live in a time where GB only had 3 fetchable duals (OG, Shock and Murmuring bosk).
On the note of Mana Crypt going into every deck, there are 4 mana rocks that go into every deck, including creature heavy stax decks actively looking to turn off mana rocks with Null Rod, Stony Silence or Collector Ouphe. These four rocks are Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Chrome Mox, and Mox Diamond. These sorts of anti-rock decks still run these four rocks but not rocks like Mana Vault, Arcane Signet, other signets or moxen, etc.
I played Najeela Cedh with no duals with great success for a long time. Still use it with only 5 and the difference isn’t that much. The mana rocks/ dorks really help out soo much more
Fetches and shocks are so important. If you're relatively new to the game, lands aren't sexy, but they're so important. If you grab the fetch and shock for a 2 color deck, you'll always have those to play. In time you'll have the potential for a 5 color deck.
Idk what you're talking about, I see a seamless mana base and it just makes me super excited for whoever is playing it. They get to cast their spells on time. Lands are some of the sexiest cards out there!
I am suprised they did not talk about ancient tomb at all. I get gaeas cradle for the expensiveness and color restriction but ancient tomb can be put in any deck while giving a good ramp in mana. It for me feels like it is as good as city of brass in mid game (such as turn 3-4).
I bought the dual lands first getting into cEDH in 2019. It was mostly because I saw them drastically spiking. If I had to purchase them now, I wouldn't go about it the same way. They do make a difference in decks but not to the point of prioritizing them over rocks and tutors.
My LGS does friday night commander events. About half of the players bring cEDH or just under but still powerful decks. We've had a lot of discussion about proxies. eventually the store decided to rule that proxies can only be used if you have at least one copy in your collection.
Very surprised there was no Birds of Paradise, Dockside Extortionist, Demonic Tutor, or Mystic Remora. They're the top played cards in their respective colors.
I think if WoTC is going to put something on the reserve list and still have it be legal for tournament play, then they should allow proxies of at least reserve list cards in order to to make competitive play more accessible and equitable.
Meanwhile I Bought a gilded Drake and a Grim monolith for $12 combined and one of each revised dual for 50-150 each depending on color. But that was eight years ago
I feel like. if I was gonna buy a cEDH deck, I would go mono coloured first for sure. K'riik or Godo or Birgi would be my choice, then would save money on duals and other mana fixing cards. I was lucky to get my mana crypt for 50 €. I do like the Red channel land, I run that in my Winota deck because it makes 2 spirits that trigger winota. I don't run the white one though. the black one is alright too I think, don't remember what it was called
I am all about the proxies even if I own the cards. My reason is that this is very expensive cardboard. If I own a card that can pay my electric bill if I sold it, I want to keep it as near mint as possible. Playing the cards will wear on them so any card I own worth more than $5 is going in a binder and will be proxied to keep the card near mint.
Dude I currently have selvala, yisan, k’rrik, yuriko, and ikra-Kraum turbo naus, all proxied. the only thing they commonly share is some of the rocks lol. Not many staples that are shared between the decks XD
I've been able to pick up I think, three Mana Vaults because the 4th edition or semi-older versions aren't actually that expensive. Yeah it's like 40-60 but compared to a Mana Crypt? Great value
The lotus is not everywhere. Innala, roger, raffine, jetmir, kinnan all do not play the lotus. It is really good in malcolm, Murderbird and winnie tho.
Great episode. I actually own 8/10 duels and still proxy them! But 100% agree, there are much more impactful cards I would buy over duals and if I'd known that before I brought them, I probably wouldn't own them now.
It was actually a bit of a hot take as we found out. Many people are very much of the mind that if you want to win in this format, you must run Duals. We are hoping to help spread the message that it's not actually true.
The collector on me wants to personally own all of my cards, but I do build decks using proxies. Then over time I buy the cards as I can. If proxies weren’t allowed across the format, I truly believe it would change the meta. How many people are going to pay $10k ish for blue farm?
I think that seton krosen protector does not use manna crypt, with alout of cards in the deck being just a green, and it also does not accelerate to getting my commander out
Gemstone caverns was the only reason I got a turn 0 win in the flash-hulk times and so it holds sentimental value for me. I feel like it's a little worse now but still a solid card.
Fantastic video. I've been trying to get into cedh and have a few power cards myself. I wanted to know though how viable are equipments? I have a few swords and feel like their effects are worthwhile but I'm not sure
I like owning my cards but I like more proxy friendly tournaments (for any format). I even go often with 100% real cards anyway, but I like the chance to jam elves in legacy once without buying 4 craddles or what not. In fact, I sold many cards when legacy pauper died and I have been buying back a few due to Cedh, despite my group being 100%, just for the sake of it.
I almost have them all except the duel land and mox Diamond unfortunately my first cdh deck is azami I don’t think she can hang at tables right now in this meta working on getting mox diamond next then the lands
If the point of CEDH is to win as efficiently or as quick as possible, and best way to that is to use the best cards available then I don’t understand the hate towards the duals? Yes its maybe a small advantage over the Shocklands but its an advantage nonetheless. Since most of the decks get proxied anyway, who cares if someone buys a Volcanic Island for their collection? In fact if the point of the video was to advocate acquiring cards that are both collectible AND useful in cedh then the duals easily fit this. Towards the latter part of this video, i sensed the shift in tone to a “value” mindset, which seems antithetical to the idea of cedh. And I dont mean “value” from a card resource standpoint but more from a financial one, which frankly is alleviated by proxying. JMHO.
I never mind proxies if the person playing acknowledges that they are using them ! We have 1 person at our lgs who constantly plays cedh proxies in casual commander games ! Not even cedh games ! It’s horrible when a new playing with a precon wants to play and this dude drops a proxied jewelled lotus / mana vault / crypt / some sort of mox just over all not fun and has tainted the perspective of proxies for my lgs :(
Personally i love to own my cards, but when you're talking about a format like cedh where a single deck can set you back thousands of dollars. You've got to be ok with proxies. Otherwise it isnt accessible to most people.
I say what I always say: If a card is an auto include in any deck or any specific colour ... it should be banned! If you want to play homogenized formats play 60 card decks. The EDH commitee sux ...
As long as it's not sanctioned or tournament play for a dual or something then I'm fine with it . But once you start playing for real cards with high value then yeah I want real cards on the table only 🤷
To answer the last question, I just like owning real cards. I like the art and supporting the game economy. I like Damaged Cards and finding good deals. All my Cards and Decks are real and it makes me happy to look at my beat up cards that have a home.
To the claim about og duals being the "end all be all" for cedh, i 100% agree.
I played a game where i got a comment from another player because i played a temple of epiphany turn 1. I said it entering tapped isn't that relevant and pushed my scry, and then proceeded to turn 2 my commander (narset, enlightened master) because of what i drew after the scry (jeweled lotus).
I won that game next turn and made sure to tell him that was all because of the scry.
Kinda surprised Ancient Tomb is not up there. City of Traitors I get, but Ancient Tomb is so good if you are playing colored manarocks.
85.91% of decks, according to their data. Higher than both City of Brass and Mana Confluence. Not trying to bash them or the data, but I 100% agree it should be on the list.
It's wonderfully ironic seeing the difference between what Legacy players recommend for starting in the format versus the difference between PWP's recommended cards selection. Legacy players will absolutely tell you to buy out a playset of OG Dual Lands and all the Force of Wills you need.
Those are very different formats. Loosing 2 life is way less relevant in cEDH than in Legacy.
Comparing cEDH to something like Highlander is a way more apt. We have gotten so many good fetchable lands in the past few years you can easily get away with not having duals. We don't live in a time where GB only had 3 fetchable duals (OG, Shock and Murmuring bosk).
Gaea’s Cradle has been so expensive for so long I can’t even imagine it being sub $100
i.imgur.com/tzgNhZ5.jpg
On the note of Mana Crypt going into every deck, there are 4 mana rocks that go into every deck, including creature heavy stax decks actively looking to turn off mana rocks with Null Rod, Stony Silence or Collector Ouphe. These four rocks are Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Chrome Mox, and Mox Diamond. These sorts of anti-rock decks still run these four rocks but not rocks like Mana Vault, Arcane Signet, other signets or moxen, etc.
I played Najeela Cedh with no duals with great success for a long time. Still use it with only 5 and the difference isn’t that much. The mana rocks/ dorks really help out soo much more
I agree but it does make your adnaus abit better so it's always worth. Imo
Fetches and shocks are so important. If you're relatively new to the game, lands aren't sexy, but they're so important. If you grab the fetch and shock for a 2 color deck, you'll always have those to play. In time you'll have the potential for a 5 color deck.
Idk what you're talking about, I see a seamless mana base and it just makes me super excited for whoever is playing it. They get to cast their spells on time. Lands are some of the sexiest cards out there!
I love this video. It would be helpful for many new players.
Own one copy of many of these and keep them in a binder then get good proxies to make multiple decks with
I am suprised they did not talk about ancient tomb at all. I get gaeas cradle for the expensiveness and color restriction but ancient tomb can be put in any deck while giving a good ramp in mana. It for me feels like it is as good as city of brass in mid game (such as turn 3-4).
The thumbnail was Ryan's idea smh
And you love it.
I bought the dual lands first getting into cEDH in 2019. It was mostly because I saw them drastically spiking. If I had to purchase them now, I wouldn't go about it the same way. They do make a difference in decks but not to the point of prioritizing them over rocks and tutors.
Good news, I got all of them!!
Mana Crypt isn't typically in Yuriko lol but some ppl cant seem to cut it when they venture into Yuriko
I love Cedh
In the pain lands section you guys put Breeding Pool instead of Yavimaya Coast
Good eye!
My LGS does friday night commander events. About half of the players bring cEDH or just under but still powerful decks. We've had a lot of discussion about proxies. eventually the store decided to rule that proxies can only be used if you have at least one copy in your collection.
Great series. Can’t wait for more
Very surprised there was no Birds of Paradise, Dockside Extortionist, Demonic Tutor, or Mystic Remora. They're the top played cards in their respective colors.
We have a part 2 coming out. It covers these.
Yeah but they're all cheap or close to a ban.
If I could, I’d just play 2 of each shock land rather than buy duals.😅
You added Breeding Pool as a pain land instead of just a shock land. I think it was mistaken for Yavimaya Coast
Sol Ring used to be on the reserve list! Can you even imagine the price now? haha
I think if WoTC is going to put something on the reserve list and still have it be legal for tournament play, then they should allow proxies of at least reserve list cards in order to to make competitive play more accessible and equitable.
Meanwhile I Bought a gilded Drake and a Grim monolith for $12 combined and one of each revised dual for 50-150 each depending on color. But that was eight years ago
I feel like. if I was gonna buy a cEDH deck, I would go mono coloured first for sure. K'riik or Godo or Birgi would be my choice, then would save money on duals and other mana fixing cards. I was lucky to get my mana crypt for 50 €. I do like the Red channel land, I run that in my Winota deck because it makes 2 spirits that trigger winota. I don't run the white one though. the black one is alright too I think, don't remember what it was called
This is what I did. I went mono blue, then Dimir, now I’m running an Esper deck. It definitely made things easier
Even 10 years later I don’t need duals. Fetches + shocks are usually enough with all the other many cycles of lands out.
I am all about the proxies even if I own the cards. My reason is that this is very expensive cardboard. If I own a card that can pay my electric bill if I sold it, I want to keep it as near mint as possible. Playing the cards will wear on them so any card I own worth more than $5 is going in a binder and will be proxied to keep the card near mint.
Dude I currently have selvala, yisan, k’rrik, yuriko, and ikra-Kraum turbo naus, all proxied. the only thing they commonly share is some of the rocks lol. Not many staples that are shared between the decks XD
I've been able to pick up I think, three Mana Vaults because the 4th edition or semi-older versions aren't actually that expensive. Yeah it's like 40-60 but compared to a Mana Crypt? Great value
Huge value
Breeding pool in the pain lands😂
The lotus is not everywhere. Innala, roger, raffine, jetmir, kinnan all do not play the lotus. It is really good in malcolm, Murderbird and winnie tho.
Great episode.
I actually own 8/10 duels and still proxy them! But 100% agree, there are much more impactful cards I would buy over duals and if I'd known that before I brought them, I probably wouldn't own them now.
It was actually a bit of a hot take as we found out. Many people are very much of the mind that if you want to win in this format, you must run Duals. We are hoping to help spread the message that it's not actually true.
@@PlayingWithPowerMTG 100% true in my opinion. The only argument I can see is turbo Naus strategies but that's even open for debate.
The collector on me wants to personally own all of my cards, but I do build decks using proxies. Then over time I buy the cards as I can. If proxies weren’t allowed across the format, I truly believe it would change the meta. How many people are going to pay $10k ish for blue farm?
I think that seton krosen protector does not use manna crypt, with alout of cards in the deck being just a green, and it also does not accelerate to getting my commander out
Gemstone caverns was the only reason I got a turn 0 win in the flash-hulk times and so it holds sentimental value for me. I feel like it's a little worse now but still a solid card.
Fantastic video. I've been trying to get into cedh and have a few power cards myself. I wanted to know though how viable are equipments? I have a few swords and feel like their effects are worthwhile but I'm not sure
I like owning my cards but I like more proxy friendly tournaments (for any format). I even go often with 100% real cards anyway, but I like the chance to jam elves in legacy once without buying 4 craddles or what not.
In fact, I sold many cards when legacy pauper died and I have been buying back a few due to Cedh, despite my group being 100%, just for the sake of it.
I almost have them all except the duel land and mox Diamond unfortunately my first cdh deck is azami I don’t think she can hang at tables right now in this meta working on getting mox diamond next then the lands
If the point of CEDH is to win as efficiently or as quick as possible, and best way to that is to use the best cards available then I don’t understand the hate towards the duals? Yes its maybe a small advantage over the Shocklands but its an advantage nonetheless. Since most of the decks get proxied anyway, who cares if someone buys a Volcanic Island for their collection? In fact if the point of the video was to advocate acquiring cards that are both collectible AND useful in cedh then the duals easily fit this. Towards the latter part of this video, i sensed the shift in tone to a “value” mindset, which seems antithetical to the idea of cedh. And I dont mean “value” from a card resource standpoint but more from a financial one, which frankly is alleviated by proxying. JMHO.
Number one card is a printer
Tymna/Thrasios lists arent on jeweled lotus usually
YES I GET TO UM ACTUALLY
CODIE DECKS BUILT AROUND CASCADING INTO THE 0 MANA TUTOR DOESNT WANT MANA CRYPT
However codie tutor into naus is unplayable at the current meta
Both sad and happy to say i have almost all the bang for your buck cards 😂😢
I never mind proxies if the person playing acknowledges that they are using them ! We have 1 person at our lgs who constantly plays cedh proxies in casual commander games ! Not even cedh games ! It’s horrible when a new playing with a precon wants to play and this dude drops a proxied jewelled lotus / mana vault / crypt / some sort of mox just over all not fun and has tainted the perspective of proxies for my lgs :(
Agree
Personally i love to own my cards, but when you're talking about a format like cedh where a single deck can set you back thousands of dollars. You've got to be ok with proxies. Otherwise it isnt accessible to most people.
I need more fast mana rn then free counterspells then lands
erm, acktually, Animar doesnt use mana crypt
Ancient Tomb and Urza's Saga cEDH staple Lands?
Dual lands are not worth the monetary cost. There are many reasonable substitutes.
How does LED rate?
And basics instead of duals can even be an upside against people with bloodmoon, back to basics or sometimes against carpet 👍🦭
Is your patron Master Ash?
Sythis is a deck where you put none of those power 4 in 😅
No mention of Mox Amber in the Mana Rock segment?
It’s usually only good in decks that can turn one their commander reliably, or would even want to do that.
it was in the graphic
I say what I always say: If a card is an auto include in any deck or any specific colour ... it should be banned! If you want to play homogenized formats play 60 card decks. The EDH commitee sux ...
First
Check again...
As long as it's not sanctioned or tournament play for a dual or something then I'm fine with it . But once you start playing for real cards with high value then yeah I want real cards on the table only 🤷