Excellent! It's such a treat that Østein provides his music to me for the videos. I barely do it justice with the little snippets I am able to use. Glad you listen to his music for chilling. Check out the new vocal version of "Theydream", just released yesterday. It's awesome! :)
You are right, the image is the socket side on the mobo. I've done the same thing before, spent quite a bit of time troubleshooting on a project only to realize I had used the wrong pinout guide.
Yes, that's the first problem. The second problem was that the pin numbering is incorrect in the table on the Github. The wire colors are going to the wrong pin numbers on the DIN according to that table. It's always a pain to get the pinout right on those DIN connectors. I usually add a little blurb with "male connector, solder side" or something equivalent whenever I sketch out a pinout to minimize confusion.
I'm surprised there weren't alternate control and caps-lock keycaps for the Amiga positions, I'm sure the firmware would support that option - tons of PC-USB keyboards can swap those locations too. In that case it's marketed more toward the Unix-nostalgic, but it equally applies to Amiga users!
@@JanBeta you can even swap the location of the LED on this one! Other boards with a built-in ctrl-caps swap tend to still only have a light under caps, so there’s just as much of a mental disconnect as when they’re off in the corner.
Yes, that's one part of the problems. The table with the pin numbers is also off as far as I can see. Plus, the cables seem to sometimes use different wire color coding. So the best way to do it would have been to just check the pinout before putting the connector together. But I was too impatient for that bit. :D
It took me 4 hours to solder my PiDP11 panel, so I am sure that would have about the same number of solder joints. It was definitely soothing to do, though.
You'll need additional chips in order to use a Pico in this application; the Teensy++ uses 5 volts for all of its GPIO, but newer Teensies and the Pico use 3.3 volts and will be damaged if you use 5 volts.
Unfortunately, current 5V products are going the way of the dodo. One of the few remaining would be the ATMega series, possibly some of the PIC series too.
Maybe that's due to the fact that the A2000 was designed by Commodore in Braunschweig who also built the first line of Commodore PCs. I guess they just used a PC style case and modified it slightly to fit the Amiga connectors etc. Probably still the same measurements as a standard PC of that period. Just guessing but seems feasible. :D
I was just going to say the same. The picture shows a socket, not a plug. It should be wired as you are looking at it from the back of the plug, not the front.
yeah, the graphic is clearly a socket. the pinout for the socket is the same as the pinout for the plug when you're soldering the plug (ie. looking at it from the wiring side). it doesn't make sense to me to show the wiring of a plug when looking at the pins of the plug.
Yeah I don't really fault the diagram as for a lot of people are looking at the back of the connector where the wires go in. Should just say "from rear" or something.
@@bengelman2600there's 3 reasonable ways to think of it: looking "into" the socket from the outside. looking at the plug from the wiring side (ie. when you're soldering it). and looking at the pins. two of those are the same, and the other is wrong.
In my defense, my laptop screen looks that filthy partially because it has the common problem with the anti-glare coating disintegrating that the MacBooks from that time all develop sooner or later. But, yes, it's also dusty and dirty. :D
With the correct microcontroller out of production and the github last updated 2 years ago, isn't this project dead? Obviously the board can be reworked to use something else on QMKs supported hardware list but that's a much more advanced project.
Yes, it's pretty much obsolete at this point unfortunately. I hope that somebody works out an updated version eventually. I think the main problem is that the recent Teensys and other microcontrollers don't support 5V logic out of the box. :/
There are still alot of 5v options out there like the atmega 32u4 and even then logic level converters are cheap. Other options would be using i2c expanders that have alot of options when it comes to voltage. Then again I do not use microcontroller boards but put the chip straight onto the pcb when I design a custom macro keyboard.
@@samuraidriver4x4 For sure lots of options. Sounds like you have all skills to do it anyway, I think I could pull it off myself but this GitHub project was supposed to have all the problems solved for a lower skill audience and it doesn't do that anymore.
I wish I could finish the C=Key project I built a little while back (a board that can translate between C64 & 128 keyboards to PS2 and vice-versa), got it all physically built (once I translated the messy component labelling into something sensible), but the programming side, they left that out of the instructions, presumably because they'd rather I bought from them than DIY built myself, and I have no idea how those things work when it comes to what files to use or which programmer to use, it sucks when a good idea is abandoned... :(
Oh, that sucks indeed. Which project did you attempt to build? I am only aware of the Keyrah from individual computers to adapt C= keyboards. But that's a commercial product and not openly available for DIYing.
@@JanBeta The project is just called the "C=Key" from Retro Innovations, it's available to purchase (based in the US though, higher costs to ship across the pond versus PCB manufacture and assembling yourself) but they shared the files for DIYing anyway, I mainly got it to use with my C64DTV projects, which use a PS/2 or AT interface, to have a real C64 keyboard for more realistic useage, but, the main IC (an atmel or atmega or something) needs programming, and, that's beyond my knowledge, I can follow instructions and usually get things right, but, there are none, just a parts list and where to solder them (poorly labelled I might add), but nothing to say with what or how to program it other than directly in a programmer or by the ISP header, and that's where it sits, no programming, just an assembled product I can't do anything with, and I can't find any alternative that is AT/PS2 compatible, only USB... :(
@@twocvbloke I've looked it up briefly and you seem to have to use a programmer to write the code to the Atmega for it to work indeed. The TL866 EPROM programmers should work for that, both through the ISP header or by putting the chip directly into the programmer. The ".hex" or the ".bin" files in the Github folder here github.com/go4retro/c-key/tree/master/obj-m162 should be the ones you need to put on the chip. I guess there are many other devices capable of programming those Atmega microcontrollers. The TL866 is just what I have here myself (and it's a highly recommended programmer for all things retro tinkering anyway). Maybe that helps a bit?
@@JanBeta I have a TL866 (as well as some small USB thing that alleges to do ISP, never actually used it for that), used it to check the Atmega I got was real, which was as far as I got, but thanks for pointing out which files to use, that's something they never mentioned, just need to remember where I put the board now, I think I assembled it before the summer, so it's been a while!! :D
Why no SMD parts? Way easier and faster to solder. Must not be 0603, 1206 or similar (Minimelf for the diodes) ist just fine, even for not so much trained amateuers.
It’s a matter of taste, I guess. Many peeps consider through-hole parts easier and more fun to work with. Should be relatively easy to modify the PCB files to have SMD footprints.
@@JanBetaI don't wanna build this keyboard, but I had to solder ~1000 (one thousand!) diodes some weeks ago! Took me around 3-4h with solder twezzers. Works nicely with some practice.
Not yet as far as I know. There is the possibility of using a slightly modified A500 keyboard with A1200 (as per my last video) and there is the Lyra USB adapter from icomp.de that can be used with the A1200 and USB keyboards (you could possibly use custom printed keycaps for the proper Amiga feeling).
Ich denke, ein Teensy muss es schon sein, nicht einmal weil er mehr Speicher für die Firmware braucht sondern weil ein Nano einfach ein wenig zu langsam ist um qls Tastatur Controller zu funktionieren....
Zumindest für die "Gaming-Crowd" sind die regulären Arduinos vermutlich wirklich zu lahm. Leider ist der Teensy, der hier benutzt wird schon länger "out of production". Ich hoffe mal, dass jemand Schlaueres eine Version baut, die z.B. einen Pi benutzt oder einen anderen Microcontroller, der 5V TTL Logik spricht. Die scheinen gerade rarer zu werden in den letzten Jahren. :/
Das wäre toll, ein paar Pis (Zero/Pico etc.) habe ich noch herumliegen😄, sind ja auch nicht mehr so leicht zu bekommen seit der zurückliegenden "globalen Malaise"...
@@JanBeta oh ja, for sure. I'm absolutely going to build one. I love my Hi-Tek keyboard but I'm almost afraid to use it. This one is going to be great!
If your sign is correct, you have to be way over 400 years old... Question1: to turn this into a PC keyboard, do you connect the usb cable to the Arduino USB directly? Question2: if your Mac detected the Arduino as a keyboard, does that means that Macs accept Amiga keyboards?
The sign is just a sneaky Star Trek reference. ;) The Teensy wired via USB acts as a USB keyboard controller, so you just have to use the PC firmware and it's going to work as a PC/Mac keyboard. The Mac doesn't know the Amiga keyboard code, it just sees the keyboard controller via USB. ;)
It's a shame that Teensy has been discontinued. Are there any alternatives for it? Looking down (@TwelveBaud), it looks like RPi Pico plus some voltage regulation, maybe?
That should totally be possible. I don't know enough about microcontrollers/Pi picos to pull it off myself unfortunately. I would guess that there are PC keyboard designs that use the pico already. All that would be necessary is to bring the clock and data signals that go to the Amiga to 5V TTL levels and modify the firmware a bit.
Good to see people doing this kind of work to keep old technology running.
Focus 10 is, because of your channel, in my chillout playlist. Like it alot! Thanx!
Excellent! It's such a treat that Østein provides his music to me for the videos. I barely do it justice with the little snippets I am able to use. Glad you listen to his music for chilling. Check out the new vocal version of "Theydream", just released yesterday. It's awesome! :)
@@JanBeta I will, thanx!
Jan devo dirlo,sei un campione!
Great job Jan
Thank you and Merry Christmas.
The pinout is shown from a soldering side
I think the pin out issue is the site is giving you the Amiga 2000 female plug side (See the holes?) and you are wiring the male side. No?
You are right, the image is the socket side on the mobo. I've done the same thing before, spent quite a bit of time troubleshooting on a project only to realize I had used the wrong pinout guide.
Yes, that's the first problem. The second problem was that the pin numbering is incorrect in the table on the Github. The wire colors are going to the wrong pin numbers on the DIN according to that table. It's always a pain to get the pinout right on those DIN connectors. I usually add a little blurb with "male connector, solder side" or something equivalent whenever I sketch out a pinout to minimize confusion.
I'm glad it's not just me that gets DIN plug pinouts backwards!
All the time! There should be some kind of rule to clarify which direction the pinout view is from for every DIN pinout.
I'm surprised there weren't alternate control and caps-lock keycaps for the Amiga positions, I'm sure the firmware would support that option - tons of PC-USB keyboards can swap those locations too. In that case it's marketed more toward the Unix-nostalgic, but it equally applies to Amiga users!
That's a neat idea. Should be relatively easy to modify the layout in the firmware a bit and maybe have some extra keys printed. :)
@@JanBeta you can even swap the location of the LED on this one! Other boards with a built-in ctrl-caps swap tend to still only have a light under caps, so there’s just as much of a mental disconnect as when they’re off in the corner.
The web site might not have the connection layout for the DIN connector mirrored, it might just be from the opposite direction.
Yes, that's one part of the problems. The table with the pin numbers is also off as far as I can see. Plus, the cables seem to sometimes use different wire color coding. So the best way to do it would have been to just check the pinout before putting the connector together. But I was too impatient for that bit. :D
It took me 4 hours to solder my PiDP11 panel, so I am sure that would have about the same number of solder joints. It was definitely soothing to do, though.
Nice job Jan Beta. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands
Teensy++ was absurdly expensive, it was wiped out by RPi Pico.
You'll need additional chips in order to use a Pico in this application; the Teensy++ uses 5 volts for all of its GPIO, but newer Teensies and the Pico use 3.3 volts and will be damaged if you use 5 volts.
Unfortunately, current 5V products are going the way of the dodo. One of the few remaining would be the ATMega series, possibly some of the PIC series too.
Looks like it has the exact width of the A2000, which is nice!
Maybe that's due to the fact that the A2000 was designed by Commodore in Braunschweig who also built the first line of Commodore PCs. I guess they just used a PC style case and modified it slightly to fit the Amiga connectors etc. Probably still the same measurements as a standard PC of that period. Just guessing but seems feasible. :D
Makes sense @@JanBeta !
Website is not incorrect, it shows the pinout of the SOCKET not the plug
The table with the wire colors/PIN numbers as well as the labels for the functions of the wires on the pinout are mirrored as far as I can see.
I was just going to say the same. The picture shows a socket, not a plug. It should be wired as you are looking at it from the back of the plug, not the front.
yeah, the graphic is clearly a socket. the pinout for the socket is the same as the pinout for the plug when you're soldering the plug (ie. looking at it from the wiring side). it doesn't make sense to me to show the wiring of a plug when looking at the pins of the plug.
LOL I did the same thing with the LEDs and the keys when building an MSX Clone. It was definitely a "d'oh!" moment, followed by desoldering...
Yeah, I didn't know how these lit key switches work. It's the very first keyboard I ever assembled on that level. :D
Would be nice if there was an Amiga layout option too. Can't we 3d-print the top?
I think there are several 3D-printed keyboard case options but I haven't really looked into it (mostly because I still don't have a 3D-printer). :)
Great result Jan!
Yes, it's beautiful! :)
Yeah this old problem, are they showing the plug or the socket, and from which direction?🙂
Yeah I don't really fault the diagram as for a lot of people are looking at the back of the connector where the wires go in. Should just say "from rear" or something.
@@bengelman2600there's 3 reasonable ways to think of it: looking "into" the socket from the outside. looking at the plug from the wiring side (ie. when you're soldering it). and looking at the pins. two of those are the same, and the other is wrong.
Exactly. It should be mandatory to put something on those pinouts that clarifies from which direction the pinout is to be followed. :D
17:04 I haven't seen a laptop screen as filthy as this... ever! Keep up the good work Jan, and clean your screens! New Year's resolution?
In my defense, my laptop screen looks that filthy partially because it has the common problem with the anti-glare coating disintegrating that the MacBooks from that time all develop sooner or later. But, yes, it's also dusty and dirty. :D
Thumbs up for the content and a thumbs up for the music!
The instructions on screen did say that some cables even by the same manufacturer were mirrored. see @9:52
Oh, I didn't realize that. D'oh. Could have spared me some headaches. :D
@@JanBeta too busy entertaining us !! :D
Too bad it doesn't have the proper Amiga layout, but it is good to see that there are alternatives.
It "feels" pretty good with the approximated layout. Of course it's a bit of a workaround to be able to use the PC parts.
Very nice keyboard.
With the correct microcontroller out of production and the github last updated 2 years ago, isn't this project dead? Obviously the board can be reworked to use something else on QMKs supported hardware list but that's a much more advanced project.
Yes, it's pretty much obsolete at this point unfortunately. I hope that somebody works out an updated version eventually. I think the main problem is that the recent Teensys and other microcontrollers don't support 5V logic out of the box. :/
There are still alot of 5v options out there like the atmega 32u4 and even then logic level converters are cheap.
Other options would be using i2c expanders that have alot of options when it comes to voltage.
Then again I do not use microcontroller boards but put the chip straight onto the pcb when I design a custom macro keyboard.
@@samuraidriver4x4 For sure lots of options. Sounds like you have all skills to do it anyway, I think I could pull it off myself but this GitHub project was supposed to have all the problems solved for a lower skill audience and it doesn't do that anymore.
I wish I could finish the C=Key project I built a little while back (a board that can translate between C64 & 128 keyboards to PS2 and vice-versa), got it all physically built (once I translated the messy component labelling into something sensible), but the programming side, they left that out of the instructions, presumably because they'd rather I bought from them than DIY built myself, and I have no idea how those things work when it comes to what files to use or which programmer to use, it sucks when a good idea is abandoned... :(
Oh, that sucks indeed. Which project did you attempt to build? I am only aware of the Keyrah from individual computers to adapt C= keyboards. But that's a commercial product and not openly available for DIYing.
@@JanBeta The project is just called the "C=Key" from Retro Innovations, it's available to purchase (based in the US though, higher costs to ship across the pond versus PCB manufacture and assembling yourself) but they shared the files for DIYing anyway, I mainly got it to use with my C64DTV projects, which use a PS/2 or AT interface, to have a real C64 keyboard for more realistic useage, but, the main IC (an atmel or atmega or something) needs programming, and, that's beyond my knowledge, I can follow instructions and usually get things right, but, there are none, just a parts list and where to solder them (poorly labelled I might add), but nothing to say with what or how to program it other than directly in a programmer or by the ISP header, and that's where it sits, no programming, just an assembled product I can't do anything with, and I can't find any alternative that is AT/PS2 compatible, only USB... :(
@@twocvbloke I've looked it up briefly and you seem to have to use a programmer to write the code to the Atmega for it to work indeed. The TL866 EPROM programmers should work for that, both through the ISP header or by putting the chip directly into the programmer. The ".hex" or the ".bin" files in the Github folder here github.com/go4retro/c-key/tree/master/obj-m162 should be the ones you need to put on the chip. I guess there are many other devices capable of programming those Atmega microcontrollers. The TL866 is just what I have here myself (and it's a highly recommended programmer for all things retro tinkering anyway). Maybe that helps a bit?
@@JanBeta I have a TL866 (as well as some small USB thing that alleges to do ISP, never actually used it for that), used it to check the Atmega I got was real, which was as far as I got, but thanks for pointing out which files to use, that's something they never mentioned, just need to remember where I put the board now, I think I assembled it before the summer, so it's been a while!! :D
A thing of beauty!
It is!
Why no SMD parts? Way easier and faster to solder. Must not be 0603, 1206 or similar (Minimelf for the diodes) ist just fine, even for not so much trained amateuers.
It’s a matter of taste, I guess. Many peeps consider through-hole parts easier and more fun to work with. Should be relatively easy to modify the PCB files to have SMD footprints.
@@JanBetaI don't wanna build this keyboard, but I had to solder ~1000 (one thousand!) diodes some weeks ago! Took me around 3-4h with solder twezzers. Works nicely with some practice.
Is there anything like this open sourced for the A1200?
No, Stephen Jones is working on a prototype but it will not be open source.
Not yet as far as I know. There is the possibility of using a slightly modified A500 keyboard with A1200 (as per my last video) and there is the Lyra USB adapter from icomp.de that can be used with the A1200 and USB keyboards (you could possibly use custom printed keycaps for the proper Amiga feeling).
guru meditation 😆
Ich denke, ein Teensy muss es schon sein, nicht einmal weil er mehr Speicher für die Firmware braucht sondern weil ein Nano einfach ein wenig zu langsam ist um qls Tastatur Controller zu funktionieren....
Zumindest für die "Gaming-Crowd" sind die regulären Arduinos vermutlich wirklich zu lahm. Leider ist der Teensy, der hier benutzt wird schon länger "out of production". Ich hoffe mal, dass jemand Schlaueres eine Version baut, die z.B. einen Pi benutzt oder einen anderen Microcontroller, der 5V TTL Logik spricht. Die scheinen gerade rarer zu werden in den letzten Jahren. :/
Das wäre toll, ein paar Pis (Zero/Pico etc.) habe ich noch herumliegen😄, sind ja auch nicht mehr so leicht zu bekommen seit der zurückliegenden "globalen Malaise"...
Argh...I want one badly but I'm having flash back of building the Mega65 DIY keyboard.
It is tedious indeed! But in the end, you have a very neat keyboard. :)
@@JanBeta oh ja, for sure. I'm absolutely going to build one. I love my Hi-Tek keyboard but I'm almost afraid to use it. This one is going to be great!
If your sign is correct, you have to be way over 400 years old...
Question1: to turn this into a PC keyboard, do you connect the usb cable to the Arduino USB directly?
Question2: if your Mac detected the Arduino as a keyboard, does that means that Macs accept Amiga keyboards?
The sign is just a sneaky Star Trek reference. ;) The Teensy wired via USB acts as a USB keyboard controller, so you just have to use the PC firmware and it's going to work as a PC/Mac keyboard. The Mac doesn't know the Amiga keyboard code, it just sees the keyboard controller via USB. ;)
@@JanBeta nice to know (both things).
Last update on the github was 2 years ago...
Yep, I procrastinated this quite a while. Sorry.
For someone who has seen nowadays custom keyboards, why does it still use Costar stabilizer, lol
Nice, I love new keyboards for those old systems. Not a fan of the originals 🤣
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEING UNEMPLOYED HOW MANY YEARS SHOULD GET A JOB ITS 2023 😊😊😊
get a life!
It's a shame that Teensy has been discontinued. Are there any alternatives for it? Looking down (@TwelveBaud), it looks like RPi Pico plus some voltage regulation, maybe?
That should totally be possible. I don't know enough about microcontrollers/Pi picos to pull it off myself unfortunately. I would guess that there are PC keyboard designs that use the pico already. All that would be necessary is to bring the clock and data signals that go to the Amiga to 5V TTL levels and modify the firmware a bit.