Either 50 degrees lean of peak or 75-150 degrees rich of peak is best. As long as the CHT's stay below about 380. Below 360 ideally. Stay out of the Redbox and transition through it as fast as possible.
Great Video Brandon. In the Cirrus, I have the lean assist but in my Grumman, I have just been pulling the mixture until it gets rough and bringing it back to smooth running. I am guessing that is putting me right around peak. I am going to try both methods shown here this afternoon. Thank you and fly safe man!
He is correct however not all cylinders are the same by leaning with the tac you could be running some cylinders hotter than others and without a full engine analylizer you are only leaning the cylinder which the probe for the egt is in the only way to safely lean the engine is to lean the hottest egt cylinder which would require the analizer
I hate to correct you, but the highest pressures & temps are approximately 40 degrees on the rich side of peak. In your example, you found peak with the Tach and then enrichened the mixture slightly putting you precisiely where you do NOT want to be. I recommend reviewing Savvy Aviation videos on proper leaning procedures.
With the greatest respect, I would like to suggest that anyone wishing to do least harm to their engine(s) and improve their fuel economy and in some cases performance, should seek out, arguably the most knowledgable and digestible information, by Mike Busch, Savvy Aviation. (Rather than add links which break over time, just search google and find articles by him). He explains in great detail, but in layman terms all the information you could ever want on leaning and why you might want to consider running LOP where possible and many other subjects for that matter. It is often thought that the manufacturers information is definitive, but as you'll see with a bit of research, over time, knowledge has been accumulated and what was once considered 'good practice' has subsequently been proved erroneous and the manufacturers are loath to go back and correct old manuals and data sheets etc. presumably because that incurs costs and re-certification? For what it's worth, since running my engines in the way Mike advocates, my engineers have said that, they are seeing a lot less wear and tear and much better condition of our Lycomings than would be expected in 'normal' use over a period of more than 10 years.
Excellent! Highly informative yet concise. That graph was particularly helpful. It would be really interesting to see videos covering the exact same topic for take-off, climb, and descent and landings.
I would just like to say thank you for that video I fly a Maule. And the type of flying I do is a very variation of altitude but videos like that definitely helps people like me thank you
So do I understand this correctly that you lean till you get the rise in RpM then the drop in RpM and richen to the peak rpm or do you richen just rich of the peak rpm just before the rise. Basically are you running at the peak rpm or rich of the peak rpm
The only way to harm your engine is not leaning and getting deposits causing hot spots and/or running 50 degrees ROP at high power settings resulting in high CHTs. LOP operations causes no harm and helps keep the engine free of deposits with cooler temps.
Nobody advocates running "50º ROP at high power". 50º ROP would be used for a 75% rated or less cruise, or for climbs at a high DA where the engine cannot develop anywhere near rated power.
@@jamesmiller7911 A vernier control can either be pushed or pulled, but it is basically locked in place- you have to depress a button on the end to get it to move. But it ALSO has a "screw in- screw out" function, that lets you make small adjustments either side of the locked position. So twisting doesn't necessarily give you a "finer" adjustment; you can do the same thing pushing or pulling- but it is more convenient since there is no trouble with overshooting the desired position. OTOH, when a vernier control fails it can be a catastrophe- smart people usually avoid them for throttles. Some people haven't gotten that message- they either lock and are unmovable or they disconnect completely with no chance of an inflight repair. They are heavier, much more expensive, and have undesirable failure modes. The choice is yours. (Personally, I like them...but while I have a couple I still cannot justify installing them on anything but a cowl flap)
I don't want to be that guy but the information in this video is not the best or most accurate. In fact, running the engine 50ºF rich of peak EGT is right about peak CHT and where you can cause the most harm to your engine. Even if at cruise this is not a big problem, there's really no reason to run the engine here, as this is neither the setting for best power (peak RPM), nor the setting for best economy (peak range). I have a video pointing to Lycoming's charts and explanation here - th-cam.com/video/actzekYCVV8/w-d-xo.html
Why would you ever allow the engine to run at peak? Isn’t that the highest probability of getting detonation? I wouldn’t even allow the engine to do it for five or 10 seconds
Use the tachometer, then watch the egt to confirm you're not too lean. Then put the egt in your scan check routine until you change mixture settings or requirements
You should correct your information. Running at peak EGT is not necessarily the hottest "engine" temperature or cylinder temperature. The hottest cylinder head temp occurs at highest intracylinder pressure.
Very true! You better do not listen to much. It can be done based on RPM, so far it is not plainly wrong. But you better forget the rest of this video.
Couldn't see anything at all on your gauges...Would be more useful to show how one operates lean & rich of peak with a multiple cylinder engine monitor...then show how these alternative procedures (finding peak, then rich vs lean) are reflected on the rpm & egt gauges.
That's quite "old" knowledge and some inforrmation plainly wrong, even based on old POH from the 70ies. As a general information incomplete and misleading at best...
yep completely wrong and is still the ignorant method rental clubs and flight schools still teach until this day. EGT has nothing to do with engine damage its only a sign of wasted gas going out the pipe, lean of peak toward stoichiometric side to keep cylinder head temp 380 or below and your engine will last a lifetime. "avoid the red box", hint hint from the engineer who knows how to do this properly, not from this stupidity in this video.
While you are well intentioned, your information is almost as wrong as it can be. Slightly rich of peak is the worst possible place to run your engine. PLEASE PELASE PLEASE watch or read any or all of Mike Busch's articles and/or webinars about the subject of leaning. And for goodness sake, get a full engine monitor!! The old single probe analog gauges tell you next to nothing about the actual state of your engine. I mean no offense. Peace.
Ive sat through about 10 of mike Busch's Seminars at Oshkosh. Its impossible to run leak of peak accurately in a carbureted engine. The fuel/air mixture is completely different in each cylinder. Only fuel injection model engines that have the ability to precisely put the same about of fuel/air mixture in each cylinder will this work. and I hate to tell you this. but everyone has been flying airplanes for over 100 years using the method I teach in this video.
Beware of anyone who keeps ending sentences with "ok?" These are rigid non-thinkers who just memorize what they have been told is "right thinking". This video is not only shallow, it's mistaken and wrong in many significant details. This guy is NOT an engineer nor does he work from real data. Temperatures don't follow his silly triangular diagram. Proper leaning with real instrumentation recognizes that EACH cylinder needs real-time EGT and CHT readouts, and should be done with WOT (wide open throttle) to get the best possible mixture distribution. This means you should be at an altitude that will lower the engine output to a cruise power percentage. You should wind up about 50 degrees F LEAN of peak, although even leaner is perfectly acceptable. Leaning with partial throttle is asking for it due to cylinders possibly being at very different places on the curve because the of throttle plate interfering with even mixture distribution. AGAIN: if you want to do this right and get useful range enhancement without risking shortening your engine life, you need EACH CYLINDER INDIVIDUALLY INSTRUMENTED for BOTH EGT AND CHT. And it's CHT you need to worry about- so lean past peak EGT until you can see the cylinders aren't running hot- EGT is not the thing that is going to do the damage.
Im showing people the leaning process on a normal aircraft sir.. not one with an engine monitor… plus in order to do lean of peak and to do it correctly you have to have a fuel injected engine with tuned Injectors so everything is distributed equally… OK.
@@Ayersaviation That is absolutely *wrong* . A normally carburated engine often has very even distribution once the throttle plate is wide open. (Lycomings sometimes do not, but Continentals are fine once you are running wide open.) LOP operation at an altitude where WOT gives cruise power- 65-70% is not only possible but the only intelligent way to fly. So don't give me that crap about "fuel injection and tuned injectors only". You obviously need to get educated about this- I suggest you get a copy of Jack Norris' book "The Logic of Flight". If you don't recognize that name, he's the guy that not only designed the props but was Mission Flight Director for the Voyager Around the World Un-Refueled flight in 1983. And I'd say he knows a hell of a lot more about this topic than YOU do. And I can vouch for his techniques, as if _that_ was necessary. An "engine analyzer" sits right between your ears once you get EGT and CHT from each jug. Try thinking more and spending less on electronics.
Nice to see someone explain it right. So many amateurs giving bad information. But then again, you're an instructor so proper teaching is expected.
Presented in a very clear method. I liked how you turned to airplane to better see the guages with more direct sunlight.
Either 50 degrees lean of peak or 75-150 degrees rich of peak is best. As long as the CHT's stay below about 380. Below 360 ideally. Stay out of the Redbox and transition through it as fast as possible.
Great Video Brandon. In the Cirrus, I have the lean assist but in my Grumman, I have just been pulling the mixture until it gets rough and bringing it back to smooth running. I am guessing that is putting me right around peak. I am going to try both methods shown here this afternoon.
Thank you and fly safe man!
He is correct however not all cylinders are the same by leaning with the tac you could be running some cylinders hotter than others and without a full engine analylizer you are only leaning the cylinder which the probe for the egt is in the only way to safely lean the engine is to lean the hottest egt cylinder which would require the analizer
I hate to correct you, but the highest pressures & temps are approximately 40 degrees on the rich side of peak. In your example, you found peak with the Tach and then enrichened the mixture slightly putting you precisiely where you do NOT want to be. I recommend reviewing Savvy Aviation videos on proper leaning procedures.
With the greatest respect, I would like to suggest that anyone wishing to do least harm to their engine(s) and improve their fuel economy and in some cases performance, should seek out, arguably the most knowledgable and digestible information, by Mike Busch, Savvy Aviation. (Rather than add links which break over time, just search google and find articles by him).
He explains in great detail, but in layman terms all the information you could ever want on leaning and why you might want to consider running LOP where possible and many other subjects for that matter.
It is often thought that the manufacturers information is definitive, but as you'll see with a bit of research, over time, knowledge has been accumulated and what was once considered 'good practice' has subsequently been proved erroneous and the manufacturers are loath to go back and correct old manuals and data sheets etc. presumably because that incurs costs and re-certification?
For what it's worth, since running my engines in the way Mike advocates, my engineers have said that, they are seeing a lot less wear and tear and much better condition of our Lycomings than would be expected in 'normal' use over a period of more than 10 years.
Can you teach us how to lean the midture on descent, too? This woul be a good one.
Excellent explanation. Really good. Congratulations and Thanks a lot for this.
Excellent! Highly informative yet concise. That graph was particularly helpful. It would be really interesting to see videos covering the exact same topic for take-off, climb, and descent and landings.
I would just like to say thank you for that video I fly a Maule. And the type of flying I do is a very variation of altitude but videos like that definitely helps people like me thank you
Thank you for taking the time to show this.
So do I understand this correctly that you lean till you get the rise in RpM then the drop in RpM and richen to the peak rpm or do you richen just rich of the peak rpm just before the rise. Basically are you running at the peak rpm or rich of the peak rpm
yes Sir, You want to keep it Rich of Peak
Thanks. That was very helpful!
Ron
Thank you! Very helpful video and very nicely explained.
The only way to harm your engine is not leaning and getting deposits causing hot spots and/or running 50 degrees ROP at high power settings resulting in high CHTs. LOP operations causes no harm and helps keep the engine free of deposits with cooler temps.
Nobody advocates running "50º ROP at high power". 50º ROP would be used for a 75% rated or less cruise, or for climbs at a high DA where the engine cannot develop anywhere near rated power.
Besides pushing & pulling the mixture knob I notice you twisting it too. What does twisting it do? (I'm new to this)
my Mixture knob is the Venturi type where you can push/pull or twist in in and out to adjust it!
@@Ayersaviation Damn. "Venturi" type? You mean VERNIER???
I believe twisting gives you a finer adjustment.
@@jamesmiller7911 A vernier control can either be pushed or pulled, but it is basically locked in place- you have to depress a button on the end to get it to move. But it ALSO has a "screw in- screw out" function, that lets you make small adjustments either side of the locked position. So twisting doesn't necessarily give you a "finer" adjustment; you can do the same thing pushing or pulling- but it is more convenient since there is no trouble with overshooting the desired position. OTOH, when a vernier control fails it can be a catastrophe- smart people usually avoid them for throttles. Some people haven't gotten that message- they either lock and are unmovable or they disconnect completely with no chance of an inflight repair. They are heavier, much more expensive, and have undesirable failure modes. The choice is yours. (Personally, I like them...but while I have a couple I still cannot justify installing them on anything but a cowl flap)
@@craigwall9536 Oh dear, I feel your pain Craig. I think he is the worst kind of advert for the profession.
Hottest EGT is not dangerous at cruise RPM.
I don't want to be that guy but the information in this video is not the best or most accurate. In fact, running the engine 50ºF rich of peak EGT is right about peak CHT and where you can cause the most harm to your engine. Even if at cruise this is not a big problem, there's really no reason to run the engine here, as this is neither the setting for best power (peak RPM), nor the setting for best economy (peak range).
I have a video pointing to Lycoming's charts and explanation here - th-cam.com/video/actzekYCVV8/w-d-xo.html
Why would you ever allow the engine to run at peak? Isn’t that the highest probability of getting detonation? I wouldn’t even allow the engine to do it for five or 10 seconds
Use the tachometer, then watch the egt to confirm you're not too lean. Then put the egt in your scan check routine until you change mixture settings or requirements
Thank you !
an engine analyzer is not $10,000 try less than $2,000
That’s probably including labor and hopefully you don’t have any discrepancies with wiring
I would expect an engine analyser will pay for itself.
You should correct your information. Running at peak EGT is not necessarily the hottest "engine" temperature or cylinder temperature. The hottest cylinder head temp occurs at highest intracylinder pressure.
Very true!
You better do not listen to much. It can be done based on RPM, so far it is not plainly wrong. But you better forget the rest of this video.
Why not put an AFR gauge and sensor in the system and bring manual leaning into the 21st century?
DB: 1. Cost. 2. It's not your plane to modify.
now at 75 % or below you should not be able to harm the motor no matter what you do with the lean ?
Yes. But I think it is little less, maybe 65%.
Cool video but it's so dark I can't see shit 😂😂😂
Learn more about proper mixture adjustment by watching this other video: th-cam.com/video/h3bATVXMHQg/w-d-xo.html
Couldn't see anything at all on your gauges...Would be more useful to show how one operates lean & rich of peak with a multiple cylinder engine monitor...then show how these alternative procedures (finding peak, then rich vs lean) are reflected on the rpm & egt gauges.
forget this crap its completely wrong, just go to Savvy Aviation to learn how a real engine works and how to lean properly.
i keep forgetting that your an expert on everything….
@@Ayersaviation You're. Not.
Ok, ok, ok, ok, ok,... 😂
This is all old school...and wrong !
You are totally wrong. Read the Lycoming procedure, below 75% lean to peak not rich of peak.
your an idiot
*you’re.
That's quite "old" knowledge and some inforrmation plainly wrong, even based on old POH from the 70ies. As a general information incomplete and misleading at best...
The information in that video is good basic information. I agree it was not complete but it was certainly not "plainly wrong".
yep completely wrong and is still the ignorant method rental clubs and flight schools still teach until this day. EGT has nothing to do with engine damage its only a sign of wasted gas going out the pipe, lean of peak toward stoichiometric side to keep cylinder head temp 380 or below and your engine will last a lifetime. "avoid the red box", hint hint from the engineer who knows how to do this properly, not from this stupidity in this video.
While you are well intentioned, your information is almost as wrong as it can be. Slightly rich of peak is the worst possible place to run your engine. PLEASE PELASE PLEASE watch or read any or all of Mike Busch's articles and/or webinars about the subject of leaning. And for goodness sake, get a full engine monitor!! The old single probe analog gauges tell you next to nothing about the actual state of your engine. I mean no offense. Peace.
Ive sat through about 10 of mike Busch's Seminars at Oshkosh. Its impossible to run leak of peak accurately in a carbureted engine. The fuel/air mixture is completely different in each cylinder. Only fuel injection model engines that have the ability to precisely put the same about of fuel/air mixture in each cylinder will this work. and I hate to tell you this. but everyone has been flying airplanes for over 100 years using the method I teach in this video.
Beware of anyone who keeps ending sentences with "ok?" These are rigid non-thinkers who just memorize what they have been told is "right thinking". This video is not only shallow, it's mistaken and wrong in many significant details. This guy is NOT an engineer nor does he work from real data. Temperatures don't follow his silly triangular diagram. Proper leaning with real instrumentation recognizes that EACH cylinder needs real-time EGT and CHT readouts, and should be done with WOT (wide open throttle) to get the best possible mixture distribution. This means you should be at an altitude that will lower the engine output to a cruise power percentage. You should wind up about 50 degrees F LEAN of peak, although even leaner is perfectly acceptable. Leaning with partial throttle is asking for it due to cylinders possibly being at very different places on the curve because the of throttle plate interfering with even mixture distribution. AGAIN: if you want to do this right and get useful range enhancement without risking shortening your engine life, you need EACH CYLINDER INDIVIDUALLY INSTRUMENTED for BOTH EGT AND CHT. And it's CHT you need to worry about- so lean past peak EGT until you can see the cylinders aren't running hot- EGT is not the thing that is going to do the damage.
Im showing people the leaning process on a normal aircraft sir.. not one with an engine monitor… plus in order to do lean of peak and to do it correctly you have to have a fuel injected engine with tuned Injectors so everything is distributed equally… OK.
@@Ayersaviation That is absolutely *wrong* . A normally carburated engine often has very even distribution once the throttle plate is wide open. (Lycomings sometimes do not, but Continentals are fine once you are running wide open.) LOP operation at an altitude where WOT gives cruise power- 65-70% is not only possible but the only intelligent way to fly. So don't give me that crap about "fuel injection and tuned injectors only". You obviously need to get educated about this- I suggest you get a copy of Jack Norris' book "The Logic of Flight". If you don't recognize that name, he's the guy that not only designed the props but was Mission Flight Director for the Voyager Around the World Un-Refueled flight in 1983. And I'd say he knows a hell of a lot more about this topic than YOU do. And I can vouch for his techniques, as if _that_ was necessary. An "engine analyzer" sits right between your ears once you get EGT and CHT from each jug. Try thinking more and spending less on electronics.