Vita-Saw retains 15% for each hit period, so if you get 3 swings but only have 27% Uber, you keep all of it. Old Vita-Saw did that(so you'd saving 1% for every 5% during your last life), current one gives all the uber that swing accounts for.
the math on this thing is different. you dont keep 27% if you *HAVE* 27% you keep, if we still go with the 3 swings which would be 45%, 45% of your 27% - *which is ~12,15%.* If you dont believe me, play with it. EDIT: ok this got fixed in some later comments. *this comment here is wrong and you dont need to tell me that 4 times, thanks.* read the later comments it all clears up...
No, the old Vita-Saw just let you retain up to a flat 20% Uber on death just for the mere act of clicking on it in your inventory. If you had 19% then died, you kept all of it. The "new" Vita-Saw makes that safety net stronger in exchange for it now being a reward for clicking on nearby enemy gamers with it instead (1 organ you keep up to 15% Uber, 4 organs you keep up to 60% uber).
@WAtheAnum So a brief test verified that I got 18% uber and one organ pre-death, and had 15% post death. Another without suicide still let me keep 15% of my uber. So no, you will keep 27% of uber if you have 3 organs.
The Vaccinator just turns the majority of weapons into mere peashooters that it just makes Medic into a soulless demon… well he did sell his soul to the devil in the TF2 comics so it does make perfectly sense.
the vaccinator rebalance topic is interesting because I think medic needs a weapon like the vaccinator to keep the class interesting for people like me who've played medic for a long time, but it's just ridiculous. Finding the point where it's not broken but still rewarding to use is pretty finicky as well, because I've heard people wanting to simultaneously double the charge time and reduce the shield resistance to 30%, and I just have to think to myself "do you want the medic meta to be even more fucking limited than it already is?" If the vaccinator was nerfed into being unusable, I'd probably play a lot less medic because even though it's broken, it's the least brainless way to play medic. I want to see more rebalance ideas (that aren't just salt fueled +50% time to charge and -45% resistance lol) that keep this weapon interesting, so I hope zesty can make a good follow-up to this if he ever has any ideas about it.
@@JesseIsBetterThanYou yea i agree with you the vaccinator rebalancing idea is indeed interesting and eventhough i love playing with the vaccinator because its fun i also dislike playing against it too because the amount of damage they can absorb is ludicrous and yea i agree with that , the main problem isnt really about the damage resistance but rather how fast you can get it and how ridiculously spammable it is and i find that to be the main issue here rather than the damage resistance My balancing idea is that you will have 3 charges so that you will probably need more time to build and less vac spam and an initial build rate of 0% or maybe 10% but the more you heal the more the build up rate is and it is up to the base 66% faster charge rate so that you need to have some time to build this thing up and not have charge ready effectively instantly , maybe also lower the duration to maybe like 2.25 seconds or 2 seconds So yea , here is my balancing idea for the vac , i also dont want to see it nerfed into the ground but at the same time i dont want it to be broken because this concept is really cool but the execution well...... yea
I don't know maybe it's just me playing hybrid knight with the only acceptable melee weapon, a stock bottle. I pretty much never have issues with vacc medics, no one seems to be ready for the guy with a bottle to suddenly wize part you and beat your medic to death, usually a one-shot with a crit.
If you're writing that because of his argument for the amputator, let me say that as someone who uses that weapon very often, you don't really need to always have someone defending you. I usually just stay behind my team, basically using them as a meatshield, while I spam the taunt, and as long as you check for possible spies before, that works very well.
@@roman108 i relate to this so much as a medic main, one time I ubered a heavy at the *PERFECT* time for a rush, the cart was almost at the end, and this was the final stretch. He ended up wasting my ubercharge shooting at a fucking sniper on a tower when an enemy heavy killed the rest of my fucking team. I'm a F2P player so I couldn't yell profanities at him
Yeah, i basically "main" the vaccinator too and i feel a bit guilty about it now that i watched this video, but it is still funny as shit using it and denying the kritz push of the overconfident enemy Soldier and his medic GF Speaking of balancing the weapon, i think reducing the ubers from 4 to 2 will be enough, because if you reduce the resistances or the crits block it becomes useless
If there was one thing I would change about the crossbow is ammo; it literally takes longer to empty its ammo pool than the gas passer recharges at 67.25 seconds (1.75 second reload * 39 ammo pool) which means that you have over a minute to find ammo which basically means you have infinite ammo. The crossbows healing output can be sustained indefinitely so reduce the ammo pool to like 15 or 10.
@@mr.tatortot6469 I mean that it isn’t that good that even thought it has a big ammo pool since it’s a projectile weapon and is harder to connect hits with so the only real reason to lower the ammo pool is to make the damage higher
@@everythingmust though you could compare it to sniper rifles how they have a high ammo pool, lots of spare ammo means you can hang out in a safe, favorable spot and throw shots for long period before you have to go find ammo. Combine that with how the crossbow does more damage at longer range, honestly the crossbow is concerningly similar to the scorch shot as it gives you a lot of good things with no real downside.
I would make it so you have faster movement speed while it's active, it woukd make slightly more viable since you are still not actively healing your team and taunting stops you regardless
@@DemoSin ubersaw give you a chance to get full uber and run away, the vitasaw give you a last chance to keep some of your uber, basically vita saw medics charge in expecting they wont survive, while ubersaw medics charge in expecting to get full uber and escape
My only disagreements is Kritz-C and Overdose-A. I think they're both mid-high B-tier, but I can see Zesty's justification and it's definitely a game of preference with those two.
The duality of YT, recommending videos from less than 1 min ago, and then boom, 12 years old video of that german or russian kid idk smashing his keyboard
A nice QOL change I've always wanted for the Amputator was to make it a looping taunt. This would both keep up a constant stream of healing and allow you to cancel it at any time, but still leave you vulnerable because you're in a looping taunt and entering/exiting it does take some time
I had a similar idea, where it had a penalty of -25hp but you could take up to 5 organs at +15hp and +5% move speed per organ. It would also share the headsteal mechanic with the eyelander, airstrike, bazaar bargain, etc., as well as a taunt kill like the ubersaw that would get multiple organs on kill. Medic would start with 125hp at 107% speed. At max 5 organs, he’d have 200hp and move as fast as a scout.
Being able to contribute something to the team in 6 seconds instead of having to wait about 40 seconds or more and potentially dying to random crits and snipers losing all that progress just speaks so much about Vaccinator
Vacc that has two ubers. Gimmick is you can flick a team with no penalty, for -40% + no crit damage from all sources for 1 second. Would be good with close together team pushes as you can flick unlimited targets. Would be the first "uber the team" medigun.
I think this is too punishing. Only 1 second? For 2 charges? Come on, make it at least 1.5. Also wdym flick a team? And at least 3 charges. If you are going to nerf this thing, you don't need to nerf ALL its stats. You can reduce one thing and I think it would be more balanced. Either reduce the number of charges you have (nah) charge rate (nah) or resistances (yes) .
"okay fine, I'll stop using the vaccinator to give the other team a fair chance." My team just runs in and dies, bots join the server, and pubstompers wake up from their mandatory sleep schedule to stomp more people. Fuckin nevermind I guess.
Finally someone who also thinks that the amputator is really underrated. It's almost always my go to medic melee in casual. To be honest, its main problem for me is that almost every time I pull it out in casual, people don't stop yelling at me for not using the ubersaw.
lolno, its a skill check for a medic that isnt just playing like a wm1 pyro that heals, and its a team check for the enemy gamers, vacc has been reworked for a number of times already, it used to be just the medigun a med picked if he didnt want to die (healed med upon heal target taking the properly selected damage type(+ a miniscule amount of uber for the OGs who paid attention)), it stomps pubs bc no one has friends tbh; a heavy, a pyro, and a demo/soldier that knows how to AIM AT ALL/ AT THE MEDIC might as well mean that you get a 60% dmg reduction from ranged damage for 2.5 seconds at full uber, it doesnt sound like bs then. But a 12v12 with a 4 stack on the enemy team doesnt mean much because its casual.
Reducing the damage on the Ubersaw would ironically buff it. Since it builds Uber per hit instead of per kill, you're potentially getting more Uber per single target. I'd say nerfing the Uber build to 20% is fine, but I love the Ubersaw so much that I don't want to see it nerfed.
ngl, this might be one of the cases where a no random crits nerf actually works. If you want to use the ubersaw, you're going to have to kill them with a single swing, or survive a sustained fight with a slower melee weapon. If you can't just run in, get a random crit and free 25% uber, then you're either going to die with the uber you got or walk away with more uber by actually killing them. It'd significantly increase the risk involved in pubs where your opponent almost always has a stronger weapon and a melee weapon that can probably random crit, and in some cases increase the reward even more if you land multiple saws rather than killing them in a single shot.
Perhaps lower it's damage, and change it to like every 120 damage dealt you get 20% more uber, instead of uber gained on hit? But then random critical hits would make it overpowered, so let's make it so it can't random crit?
@@Woodland_Adventures that's an increase from 4 hits to gain full uber to 10... I'm fine with increasing the number of hits to get full uber, giving it some other nerf, or outright redesigning this weapon, but that's a +150% increase from its current state, I don't think anyone would use it after a change like that
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 that would just encourage battle medic, and it would be a general handicap to a medic playing with his team since he wouldn't have as many opportunities to get an ubersaw swing, I definitely think it shouldn't have a stat like that. 5% Less uber per hit and no random crits is fine for me
IMO the Solemn Vow is just as good as the Ubersaw since 25% Uber is really fucking good, but most of the time you use it you end up loosing all of it to dying anyways. And even if it isn’t that good it is a direct upgrade from stock and thus most certainly not on the same tier
About The Amputator, I think it would only need a small addition, something I'm borrowing from Lucio in Overwatch, which would to highlight the area that is affected by the taunt, so that other players know where to stand to get the heals and so the medic can also better position himself.
The Amputator is insanely good with defending corners. For example, the main entrance of Doublecross. You can heal everyone around the corner while you aren't able to be hit.
I love amputator medics. I love targets that don't move when they get bombed around a corner, stabbed. I also love that they are too occupied taunting to build uber properly
How in the hell do you put the stock bonesaw on the same level as the solemn vow? The SV is awesome in casual, it lets you decide if you should run away or punish your attacker. It's so much more useful than stock at the very least
in my experience the solemn vow is an upside when they are farther away. but once they are right in your face knowing their health doesn't matter when you know you can't outdamage them and the swingspeed of the bonesaw can really make a difference.
The problem is that in higher level play, and as a medic, you're probably already aware of the enemies health and already have a decent idea of what it is depending on the damage you witnessed.
I agree on the Ubersaw nerf. It's way too good to do what it does and not have a heftier penalty. I would honestly add no random critical hits along with the % drop to 20 and now we're talking reasonable.
Why not just alter the stock melee so we don't have to constantly balance melee weapons so they are on-par with options that were bad to begin with? This goes for every class except for spy engie and demo. It gets annoying to constantly have to contend with this idea that all the melee weapons aren't allowed to be objectively better than stock when 80% of the time stock melee was an objectively garbage option from the start. Yeah, the ubersaw is objectively better than stock. But it's clearly not OP and noone in their right mind thinks it is. SO BUFF STOCK.
@UCEDY5IBin3uaQZTNgXMoZCw no. the ubersaw is better than every. single. medic. meele. by a long shot, you want to use the vita saw? why not just use the uber saw if you're gonna risk that much for less uber? also here's a health penalty because FUCK YOU, want to use the amputator? you better get good with that crossbow aim otherwise whoops you have absolutely no self defense! unless you dont use the crossbow, but the crossbow is omega op why wouldnt you use it. you want to use the solemn vow? unless you're playing fucking valve comp (because community comp has banned like half of the fuckin' weapons in the game) good luck killing anything but the spy that was gonna die anyways as the weakest class in the game. yeah thats why the ubersaw is overpowered, theres these other meeles with stupid downsides and upsides that dont matter but the ubersaw is so much simpler. swing SLIGHTLY slower, 25% uber on hit, guaranteed critical hits. nerf the ubersaw volvo pls pls pls pls pls
Way slower swing speed would be a good nerf. I remember as medic with stock cross sign fighting a ubersaw medic... And I lost, Ubersaw should VERY rarely win melee fights, so even slower swing speed would be fine
I genuinely think medic needs more items. The class barely has any, and it doesn’t help that every melee and syringe gun is completely invalidated by the existence of the crossbow and ubersaw, lowering the effective selection even more.
Medic main here (a fairly decent one, I might say) One thing about vaccinator's possible nerf I've had in my mind - the amount of resistance would depend on how much Uber you had charged up - it would always grant full crit resistance, but the amount of normal damage resistance would have to scale up via the amount of bubbles you have ready. Once you use the Uber, you instantly use all the bubbles and gain scaled damage resistance. However, I've never thought about the time, if they'd better keep the 2.5 seconds or increase it too, depending on the number of charges = less bubbles with less damage resistance and less time vs. more bubbles stocked up for more damage resistance and longer Uber time
THANK YOU ZESTY! The over-dose is amazing! And something Iv'e figured out through experimenting is that is in fact had a hidden upside of better accuracy! It does not curve down as much which makes it easier to aim at and kill others.
I remember when everyone said the vaccinator was terrible because of how complicated it was to use, and I went "wow, you guys are weak, I'm going to learn how to use this thing and do great" and I did and I find it hilarious that only now everyone is complaining about it. I was using it before it was cool dangit. I honestly like it BECAUSE using it is more involved. juggling the extra mechanic of resistance switching is fun, since its one extra thing to do. hate me if you want but I love the thing.
i spent over 100h to get good at it . and i love it for the same reasons you talked about . don't forget the Vac tech with the crossbow is even higher skill .
I like the vaccinator because it makes demoknight into a legitimate option and because it makes snipers cry. The melee fights that I've seen break out when both sides have the vaccinator are hilarious. I know that it has a serious negative effect on the game, but I don't want to to get fixed until certain other issues are addressed first. I think that the ubersaw should have a slow deploy speed and a movement penalty. You can't switch it out, land a hit and bale anymore. You have to think before you use it and there's a risk in doing so. The high reward is unchanged though.
While syringe guns aren't preferred, especially stock, I really just like the design of stock and the overdose. The clear casing showing all the syringes that you refill, the overdose's quirky design with the medkit just haphazardly attached along with the tubing. I still love the Crossbow design and such, but the syringe guns I feel tie more into Medic's chaotic and violent nature.
You forgot to say 2 things about self healing: *Quickfix* : You can fully heal yourself when your use the charge. *Kritzkrieg* : You can heal yourself a bit with your perform the Oktoberfest taunt (which heals for 11 hp in 4 seconds).
The Oktoberfest isn't really notable except for 1 situation; afterburn after ending a fight with a pyro. Aside from that, standing still for that long feels like a death sentence.
Apparently unpopular opinion about the Vaccinator: I've personally never found it to be much of a problem. I feel like the only reason people hate the Vaccinator so much is due to bots basically forcing you to use it, therefore more people become better with it, and being harder to kill. If the bot crisis never happened, the Vaccinator would be almost perfectly balanced. A steep as hell learning curve for a major reward at the end. The ONLY change I would personally make to it would be to not allow multiple resistances to be popped at the same time. Say you pop an explosive resistance, but then you have a Scout or Heavy shooting at you, so you switch to bullet resist. Even if that 2.5 seconds for the Vacc bubble wasn't up, that previous explosion resistance is now gone, leaving you open to either a Soldier or Demoman to come and wreck house. Plus, this enables Soldiers and Pyros to only have one of their possible damage sources ignored at any given time, allowing them to use the other without issue.
I fucking love the Vaccinator because of how fun it is to use compared to stock medi-guns and ubers. I only feel a little bad about it being as broken as it is.
18:45 A damage penalty would honestly be a buff for the Ubersaw since you could milk more uber from an opponent. Maybe something like a movement penalty while it's out would be more fitting?
Honestly the only thing I'd do to the vac is to just cut out the fourth bubble entirely, now you're down to 3 bubbles each of which charge in increments of 33% Uber rather than 25% and chaining them together would make the Uber last half a second shorter than other Ubers rather than the current 2 seconds longer, but allow all bubbles to be popped at once for a RTD-Powerplay style resistance where you have a bubble for all 3 damage types but for a very short window. In addition I'd also lower the uber build rather by a mere 1% so it builds 66% faster and when the target is at full health it gets cut down to 33%, this last change is nothing meaningful but most certainly welcome.
**Vaccinator** I would increase the passive resistance from the vaccinator to 25% and decrease the uber resistance to 50%. **Vit-a-saw:** Each hit takes an organ, increases health regen by +2 up to 5 times. Or just straight up heals you on hit, or heals an ally on hit at the expense of your health.
I love the Solemn Vow on certain loadouts (not stock or Krits, since Ubersaw is better on those), and part of it is that it’s super fun to just be able to see that someone is low health and crossbow them with that reverse falloff. And on Quick Fix or Vaccinator, knowing when the enemy Medic is about to Über can be extra useful. I’d give it B tier instead of C tier.
Solemn vow is amazing on any medi gun. The info alone it gives makes it on par with ubersaw. Zesty does not play much medic if he thinks solemn vow os worse than amputator or quick fix is better than kritz. Solemn vow is essential for good kritz since you need to know when the enemy has uber so you can pop kritz without getting completely negated by uber. Also ubersaw on kritz is not really worth it.
I'm glad to see a fellow Overdose enjoyer. 15% less damage is only 1 damage less per syringe. That extra movement speed is great of being aggressive and throws people's tracking off. The usefulness when you gotta get to people who need to be topped up for healing at ranges and around corners? I adore the Overdose.
For a nerf for the Vaccinator, I would have a cooldown on activating Uber. Like, not long, just 2 seconds, but it would give a window for the opposing team to take down your Heal target.
@@caleb_artzs2533 i think 2 seconds is fine if the cooldown is for 1 target but you can spam on multiple. It'd force medics to not pocket 1 guy (which is the most annoying use of it) and instead rely on giving well timed well planned resistances to multiple people at the same time with the downside that once theyre on vacc cooldown they dont have overheal or a resistance meaning theyre a much easier kill in the long term
You said that you read the comment section so I just want to say, how are you doing? Edit: I just realized you forgot to point out the the kritzcreage can heal yourself when you taunt. This can be useful if you escaped from a pyro that set you on fire and there's no med kit or other medic nearby. I know it's really situational but I still think it deserves to be pointed out.
I think the vita saw is pretty decent. The thing is, when you pull out your melee to defend yourself, you're probably at risk of dying anyways, so you can at least try to save some uber for your next life
The problem is if you pull it out just before you die, you're pulling it out too late. You might at max get two organs, which is such a miniscule amount of Uber saved it wasn't worth it over the +25% and potential full survival of the Ubersaw or long-life utility of the Amputator. In order to get max use out of the Vita Saw, you need a LOT of organs, which means a lot of melee, and going for melee with Medic regularly with only 140 HP is practically suicidal behavior.
Loving the content Zesty, it truly is appreciated how much you are willing to just speak your mind and the honesty in the intermission sections of these videos is greatly appreciated also thank you editor
Vaccinator is a skill based medi gun. It's difficult to cycle bubbles on people. Respect the bubbles it may be annoying to play against but so does any other player who's good with a weapon.
I mean yes but there's not many other guns in TF2 that can functionally just remove classes from viability as the vaccinator. For as little healing as it takes to build Uber, you can cycle blast and bullet bubbles to turn 8 out of the nine classes (excluding hue long heater heavy) from being able to kill you. The last one is left with either charging you suicidally or doing a pittance of damage from afair with a projectile weapon, unless they land 2 shots in a row. In my opinion vaccinator needs less Uber build up (certainly doesn't need the faster Uber buildup considering you don't have to wait the full 40 seconds) and maybe a side- nerf of more flame based weapons for other classes. I.e. incendiary grenade launcher rounds for demo
@@timtamthemememan5094 the vaccinator has a clear indicator of when it's healing someone you know what you're doing when you decide to confront the vac. Scouts can pepper and force bubbles with chip damage or using the cleaver which can't be resisted along with the wrap assassin (their speed let's them bail when needed too), Soldiers dps, range, and mobility allows him to pressure the medic into wasting bubbles as well along with being able to jump out whenever, Pyro flamethrowers actively reduce the amount of resistance and healing along with the third degree and axtinguisher being heavy counters to vac (ability to m2 when you're retreating is good along with the close quarters playstyle Pyro already has), Demo to my knowledge has the capability to shred vacs with stickies and pipes with traps being able to still one shot the medic with enough stickies (demoknight is a melee class so that works too), heavy shouldn't even be trying to fight a vac and if he's caught out of position he'll die which can happen with anything jumping a heavy (fists of steel and gru are good for rushing the med or pocket if you're desperate), Engi's sentry can shred through med pops and even use the wrangler to just fight back the combo (the sentry rockets and bullets make it devastating too), Sniper forces medics to preemptively pop bubbles to cross sight lines which wastes their capabilities (more or less jarate bushwaka can kill med), spy has the enforcer or literally any knife. Along with this the amount of focus fire is active in pubs and comp is plentiful the vac thrives on forcing players into fights they can't win. If the med can juggle bubbles in a fight that's mastery over the medigun not brainless damage sponging like other weapons that's why f2ps usually drop it for being so different and hard to master. Plus a medigun like this makes medic really fun to play I've used it for a while and carrying with it feels earned not cheap.
Part of solemn vows value when used in competitive is that you also see other medics Uber charge in addition to everyone's health, which can allow you to not only call appropriate focus fires but also instead of maybe guessing the other teams Uber within a rough range, you have exact knowledge. Sometimes a medic could have been spamming crossbows for a bit or they aren't building efficiently, and so instead of playing it safe you can capitalize off those Uber advantages with certainty as opposed to accidentally taking a bad exchange. And also yeah people are generally tracking damage but if the other medic is crossbowing people you might not catch everyone that got healed so you can focus down the people who haven't been bowed yet
Just this man ranting for the longest time about the vaccinator just makes me want to use it more. ( yes I am a medic main and the vaccinator is my second most used medigun )
The Blutsauger works for those scouts that are expecting you to have the crossbow and miss. They run at you juking for the single shot then run at you in a straight line, but I have the blutsauger and am recovering health more rapidly than they expect and they die because they were running in a straight line. Also it works if you use the gravity the syringes are subjected to as a way to spam at enemies to recover some health when you are behind cover.
pyro flames also reduce the crit immunity on a Vac bubble as well meaning the phlog can kill a vac medic relatively well even with a fire damage resistance.
I often find the mirror movement effect of the Quick Fix a bad thing more often than not. I'll be topping people off, one of them rocket jumps and then I end up flying randomly and get murdered.
Kritz's need to be in a voice call is negated by something called the V key. It magically lets you tell your team right in their ear youre about to right click
I wanna see the ubersaw nerfed so medics actually use more than just one melee that so heavily outclasses all the others. Give it a draw/holster speed penalty and have it only be like 15 uber per hit, not 25.
Just make it marked for death for 5 seconds after pulling it out. Discourages people to just run at others with it, and makes it really last resort, or a big risk
Also, if you see this comment before the Engineer stream, I have been working on a rework for the Wrangler, and here is the changes: 1. Make you take no damage from your sentry while active. This gives mobile Engineer a buff, and with my nerfs, it would need it. 2. If the Sentry is hit, you lose metal, based on how much damage the Barrier stops. And if you have no metal, Barrier is disabled. This gives the Wrangler counter play, and uses resources from the Engineer. 3. If you hit the Engineer while it's active, disable the sentry and Barrier for a short time. Like 1 damage disables both for .03 seconds. This gives the enemy some choices on which to target. 4. No metal from dispensers while active. This hurts turtle Engineers mostly. 5. If the Engineer dies, or changes weapon, remove the Barrier and disable the Sentry for 3 seconds. Hope you see these changes.
Vita saw is great for giving the enemy team with snowball weapons (e.g eyelander, bazzar bargain) an extra head(s) for activating the weapon's main upside.
My proposed change for the vita-saw is to make the übercharge retention active not after death and instead after the use of übercharge, with a slight effectiveness nerf. Change organs from 15% -> 10% So after 4 organs you get 40% über after using up an übercharge. It makes it a nice side grade to the ubersaw on the condition you can stay alive.
Medic main: I wonder if reducing the Vax resistance to something like 50% and slightly increasing the amount of time it takes to get a bubble but making the bubbles last slightly longer so it isn’t just a complete and total Valve Nerf™ could be a good option.
50% down from 75% is actually too strong of a nerf. (1/4 -> 1/2). At which point you might as well just use anything else. The problem is more on just how you can just fuck literally anyone over in 1v1 for free.
But Thank you for talking about the Dragon Fury, I've been getting kicked from MvM for using Dragon Fury. It does DMG for days, and it's perfectly balanced. If it could krit I'd be overpowered imo, but genuinely thank you for talking about my favorite flamethrower! I WANT A STRANGE DRAGON FURY!!!!
The Vax is a super interesting weapon, and I've got a real love/hate relationship with it. I love the general design of it and the way it works for the most part, but it's still ridiculously overpowered. I think the only thing you could do to fix it is to slow the rate at which it can build uber down IMMENSELY, building 4 bubbles with the Vax should be as slow as the Stock Uber, or at most the speed of the Quick Fix. Also the Kritzkrieg is my favorite Medi Gun to use, and the communication problem is easily dealt with using in game voice chat nine times out of ten.
I think an interesting change to the Vita-Saw would be removing the Uber keeping and instead allowing it to "siphon" health from a target and store it to be injected later for a short bonus to your passive healing rate, upping it to say, an additional 4-6 HP for ~5 seconds? With a cooldown on usage (or just straight up collection) of the next burst of health. You are trading 10 HP for the chance to save your ass from afterburn, or a bit of health to help you run away. Which is a really convoluted way of saying "I want Medic to shoot heroin"
Speaking of good medic videos, there’s also a video that I forgot whats it called, a collab of meet the medic, one of those medic ytp collabs. Yeah that’s a good one for the anniversary.
I would never stop using Vaccinator and laughing at anyone who cries about how broken this weapon is. Why people never complain about how broken Soldier and Demo as classes are in the right hands? The Vaccinator it THE ONLY weapon in the game that reliably shuts down the incoming rocket / sticky spam. Valve, never listen this guy and never nerf this weapon.
Well, you can die when a single soldier/demo spams explosives, but you have many options to avoid them. Soldier or demo never were op (and ofc broken) even if they are the most versatile and mobile "killing" classes. And "the rights hands" that can pull off some crazy shit with fr market gardener or pipe direct aiming ect should deserve the victory, and it's called "high skill ceiling". And "higher" skill in an ideal case should beat "lesser" But vaccinator grants buffs comparable to a 2 seconds uber, but 4 times quicker and more disposal. It's just more powerful than stock while not asking for more skill really
I know the amputator doesn't really need a change but it would make me happy if its' downside was swapped with the ubersaw's. ubersaw would still be stronger but it would feel a lot better to use the amputator. also it would be cool if there was a medic secondary similar to the crossbow that worked more like the huntsman, where you have to charge it to do more healing from a distance, like it would have scaling projectile speed and healing based on charge, and the healing and damage would be consistent rather than based on distance.
I love using the stock syringe gun since it's a middle ground between the blutsogher and the overdose. I helps you survive, regen and deal decent damage. And the overdose's tracking doesn't click with me
You can decently negate a Vacc med with the Sydney sleeper, the minicrits allow you to do almost normal damage to the uber duo. I like doing this as it makes sniper more of the support class he was intended to be.
Vita saw is shit. Less health and a downside you can't use unless you: build uber, get melee hits and die... As medic... Ubersaw is only good because it rewards last ditch efforts (i.e. getting a saw in at 75 or more uber) with an escape or sometimes a saw for 25% if you survive. Vita in comparison makes you die more because you get less health on the class that is the highest in the priority killing list
What Team Fortress 2 Classic does with the Uberspritze is pretty much the ubersaw, but you have less health, and is thus a more balanced option overall.
Vita-Saw retains 15% for each hit period, so if you get 3 swings but only have 27% Uber, you keep all of it. Old Vita-Saw did that(so you'd saving 1% for every 5% during your last life), current one gives all the uber that swing accounts for.
the math on this thing is different. you dont keep 27% if you *HAVE* 27% you keep, if we still go with the 3 swings which would be 45%, 45% of your 27% - *which is ~12,15%.* If you dont believe me, play with it.
EDIT: ok this got fixed in some later comments. *this comment here is wrong and you dont need to tell me that 4 times, thanks.* read the later comments it all clears up...
No, the old Vita-Saw just let you retain up to a flat 20% Uber on death just for the mere act of clicking on it in your inventory. If you had 19% then died, you kept all of it. The "new" Vita-Saw makes that safety net stronger in exchange for it now being a reward for clicking on nearby enemy gamers with it instead (1 organ you keep up to 15% Uber, 4 organs you keep up to 60% uber).
@WAtheAnum So a brief test verified that I got 18% uber and one organ pre-death, and had 15% post death. Another without suicide still let me keep 15% of my uber. So no, you will keep 27% of uber if you have 3 organs.
@@Quickstein Didn't know since I never had 20% post-mortem unless I was at 100%.
Thank i was so cringing inside the whole time ;(
Fun fact: the mercs, or atleast heavy, will change facial expression when injured, badly injured, or full health
what about pyro
Pretty sure this applies to everyone except Pyro
Yes
the engineer also frowns once a building goes down
@@zizo5349 as an engineer main, I confess that's what's happen to engineer's face and my face either >:(
The Vaccinator just turns the majority of weapons into mere peashooters that it just makes Medic into a soulless demon… well he did sell his soul to the devil in the TF2 comics so it does make perfectly sense.
Spy and Demoknight are the best *fuck you* weapons to the Vaccinator.
the vaccinator rebalance topic is interesting because I think medic needs a weapon like the vaccinator to keep the class interesting for people like me who've played medic for a long time, but it's just ridiculous. Finding the point where it's not broken but still rewarding to use is pretty finicky as well, because I've heard people wanting to simultaneously double the charge time and reduce the shield resistance to 30%, and I just have to think to myself "do you want the medic meta to be even more fucking limited than it already is?"
If the vaccinator was nerfed into being unusable, I'd probably play a lot less medic because even though it's broken, it's the least brainless way to play medic. I want to see more rebalance ideas (that aren't just salt fueled +50% time to charge and -45% resistance lol) that keep this weapon interesting, so I hope zesty can make a good follow-up to this if he ever has any ideas about it.
@@JesseIsBetterThanYou yea i agree with you the vaccinator rebalancing idea is indeed interesting and eventhough i love playing with the vaccinator because its fun i also dislike playing against it too because the amount of damage they can absorb is ludicrous and yea i agree with that , the main problem isnt really about the damage resistance but rather how fast you can get it and how ridiculously spammable it is and i find that to be the main issue here rather than the damage resistance
My balancing idea is that you will have 3 charges so that you will probably need more time to build and less vac spam and an initial build rate of 0% or maybe 10% but the more you heal the more the build up rate is and it is up to the base 66% faster charge rate so that you need to have some time to build this thing up and not have charge ready effectively instantly , maybe also lower the duration to maybe like 2.25 seconds or 2 seconds
So yea , here is my balancing idea for the vac , i also dont want to see it nerfed into the ground but at the same time i dont want it to be broken because this concept is really cool but the execution well...... yea
I don't know maybe it's just me playing hybrid knight with the only acceptable melee weapon, a stock bottle. I pretty much never have issues with vacc medics, no one seems to be ready for the guy with a bottle to suddenly wize part you and beat your medic to death, usually a one-shot with a crit.
Pyro: evil laugh
The ammount of trust zesty has in teammates is amazing, imo 90% of the time, you are the only person who's gonna defend you as medic.
Only for that trust to go in vain when playing casual pubs, as most teammates are braindead in there and incompetent lol
@@roman108 yup.
If you're writing that because of his argument for the amputator, let me say that as someone who uses that weapon very often, you don't really need to always have someone defending you. I usually just stay behind my team, basically using them as a meatshield, while I spam the taunt, and as long as you check for possible spies before, that works very well.
@@galegopaulista4564 I mean in general, he trusts his pockets soooo much more than he should
@@roman108 i relate to this so much as a medic main, one time I ubered a heavy at the *PERFECT* time for a rush, the cart was almost at the end, and this was the final stretch. He ended up wasting my ubercharge shooting at a fucking sniper on a tower when an enemy heavy killed the rest of my fucking team. I'm a F2P player so I couldn't yell profanities at him
I wish the Vacc wasn't as annoying to fight. I really like the active and interactive playstyle it promotes. Makes healing more challenging.
As a Vac medic, there’s nothing more satisfying than denying a sniper a quickscope with just one bullet bubble.
Yeah, i basically "main" the vaccinator too and i feel a bit guilty about it now that i watched this video, but it is still funny as shit using it and denying the kritz push of the overconfident enemy Soldier and his medic GF
Speaking of balancing the weapon, i think reducing the ubers from 4 to 2 will be enough, because if you reduce the resistances or the crits block it becomes useless
not only that it could block virtually all taunt kills (aside from the swords)
For real
"Sometimes, I pop the bubble so hard, I rip the charges!"
Except for the satisfaction of killing a vac medic
If there was one thing I would change about the crossbow is ammo; it literally takes longer to empty its ammo pool than the gas passer recharges at 67.25 seconds (1.75 second reload * 39 ammo pool) which means that you have over a minute to find ammo which basically means you have infinite ammo. The crossbows healing output can be sustained indefinitely so reduce the ammo pool to like 15 or 10.
How is that op
@@everythingmust was I ever stating it was op?
@@mr.tatortot6469 I mean that it isn’t that good that even thought it has a big ammo pool since it’s a projectile weapon and is harder to connect hits with so the only real reason to lower the ammo pool is to make the damage higher
@@everythingmust though you could compare it to sniper rifles how they have a high ammo pool, lots of spare ammo means you can hang out in a safe, favorable spot and throw shots for long period before you have to go find ammo. Combine that with how the crossbow does more damage at longer range, honestly the crossbow is concerningly similar to the scorch shot as it gives you a lot of good things with no real downside.
@@privatepessleneck the downside ia a different type of weapon that takes more skill to use
For a second there I thought this was going to be “How it feels to play medic”
Don't do that don't give me hope
one day
When "How it Feels to play Medic in TF2" comes out, the Heavy Update will drop
@Soldier [TF2] OR, We force valve to release the Heavy Update so we get Lazy's vid faster
Sigh…
The Amputator is my favourite melee ever I've hard used it for years, but meta-slaves whinged me into the ubersaw.
I still love this thing though
I would make it so you have faster movement speed while it's active, it woukd make slightly more viable since you are still not actively healing your team and taunting stops you regardless
I use the Amputator exclusively.
Wow, I honestly thought it healed for a lot less than it actually does. I'll definitely give it another go.
The Amputator is my favorite medic melee as well
Make the self heal bonus passive and increase uber gain from AOE. now its good
Vita Saw is the literal "guess i'll die" weapon, you don't try to survive, you try to bounce back faster once you come back
it really is a weapon that reward you to dive bomb to the opponent chasing you to get a few hits in
@@luthfihar3211 So how is it diferent to the Ubersaw?
@@DemoSin ubersaw give you a chance to get full uber and run away, the vitasaw give you a last chance to keep some of your uber, basically vita saw medics charge in expecting they wont survive, while ubersaw medics charge in expecting to get full uber and escape
@@luthfihar3211 well with both of them you go face first into the enemy but yes, with the vita saw you go knowing you won't get out alive
I can already taste the medic mains salt.
*Angry Meems!
Ah yes, opinions! My old nemesis!
Wait how-
I came here expecting lots of broken OP tiers...
My only disagreements is Kritz-C and Overdose-A. I think they're both mid-high B-tier, but I can see Zesty's justification and it's definitely a game of preference with those two.
Everyone else: "NO YOU CAN'T USE THE SYRINGE GUNS YOU CAN ONLY USE THE CRUSADER'S CROSSBOW"
Me: "haha overdose go brrrrrrrrr"
"Our Medic just died again trying to Battle Medic god dammit"
The duality of YT, recommending videos from less than 1 min ago, and then boom, 12 years old video of that german or russian kid idk smashing his keyboard
Cool
did you know that video was actually staged?
@@society1876 sorry, who ?
A nice QOL change I've always wanted for the Amputator was to make it a looping taunt. This would both keep up a constant stream of healing and allow you to cancel it at any time, but still leave you vulnerable because you're in a looping taunt and entering/exiting it does take some time
21:25 mentions a beer “if anyone was curious” as if he didn’t just say his fanbase was children 10 seconds ago.
early onset alcoholism!
I suggested this elsewhere, but the way to fix the vita-saw: make it like the eyelander. Plus 5 max heath per organ. That's it, done.
That's a little boring, but I wouldn't be able to come up with anything better either
This but with health regen, and each hit steals life to heal you.
Also Vita-Saw and über-saw should swap penalties.
I had a similar idea, where it had a penalty of -25hp but you could take up to 5 organs at +15hp and +5% move speed per organ. It would also share the headsteal mechanic with the eyelander, airstrike, bazaar bargain, etc., as well as a taunt kill like the ubersaw that would get multiple organs on kill.
Medic would start with 125hp at 107% speed. At max 5 organs, he’d have 200hp and move as fast as a scout.
why would you give medic a mechanic that forces him to go for melee kills, i dont see how that would make it any better
Being able to contribute something to the team in 6 seconds instead of having to wait about 40 seconds or more and potentially dying to random crits and snipers losing all that progress just speaks so much about Vaccinator
Vacc that has two ubers. Gimmick is you can flick a team with no penalty, for -40% + no crit damage from all sources for 1 second. Would be good with close together team pushes as you can flick unlimited targets. Would be the first "uber the team" medigun.
why is sprite cranberry man in comments
Quick fix: am I a joke to u?
I think this is too punishing. Only 1 second? For 2 charges? Come on, make it at least 1.5. Also wdym flick a team? And at least 3 charges. If you are going to nerf this thing, you don't need to nerf ALL its stats. You can reduce one thing and I think it would be more balanced. Either reduce the number of charges you have (nah) charge rate (nah) or resistances (yes) .
"okay fine, I'll stop using the vaccinator to give the other team a fair chance."
My team just runs in and dies, bots join the server, and pubstompers wake up from their mandatory sleep schedule to stomp more people.
Fuckin nevermind I guess.
Finally someone who also thinks that the amputator is really underrated. It's almost always my go to medic melee in casual. To be honest, its main problem for me is that almost every time I pull it out in casual, people don't stop yelling at me for not using the ubersaw.
Ah yes, my favorite loudout, the crossbow,quickfix,and the uber saw because I'm a generic medic main.
Quick-Fix>Kritzkrieg>Uber>Vaccinator
Don’t most of them consider the quick fix slightly worse than normal?
Crossbow>Overdose>Blutsager>Stock
Ubersaw>Vitasaw>Solemn Vow>Stock
@@solgerWhyIsThereAnAtItLooksBad It is very well balanced, faster charge, weaker Uber, its just stock Uber is so Damn Powerful
I apologize on behalf of all vacc medics. We are sorry for our crimes against tf2 balance.
lolno, its a skill check for a medic that isnt just playing like a wm1 pyro that heals, and its a team check for the enemy gamers, vacc has been reworked for a number of times already, it used to be just the medigun a med picked if he didnt want to die (healed med upon heal target taking the properly selected damage type(+ a miniscule amount of uber for the OGs who paid attention)), it stomps pubs bc no one has friends tbh; a heavy, a pyro, and a demo/soldier that knows how to AIM AT ALL/ AT THE MEDIC might as well mean that you get a 60% dmg reduction from ranged damage for 2.5 seconds at full uber, it doesnt sound like bs then. But a 12v12 with a 4 stack on the enemy team doesnt mean much because its casual.
Reducing the damage on the Ubersaw would ironically buff it. Since it builds Uber per hit instead of per kill, you're potentially getting more Uber per single target. I'd say nerfing the Uber build to 20% is fine, but I love the Ubersaw so much that I don't want to see it nerfed.
ngl, this might be one of the cases where a no random crits nerf actually works. If you want to use the ubersaw, you're going to have to kill them with a single swing, or survive a sustained fight with a slower melee weapon. If you can't just run in, get a random crit and free 25% uber, then you're either going to die with the uber you got or walk away with more uber by actually killing them. It'd significantly increase the risk involved in pubs where your opponent almost always has a stronger weapon and a melee weapon that can probably random crit, and in some cases increase the reward even more if you land multiple saws rather than killing them in a single shot.
Perhaps lower it's damage, and change it to like every 120 damage dealt you get 20% more uber, instead of uber gained on hit?
But then random critical hits would make it overpowered, so let's make it so it can't random crit?
@@Woodland_Adventures that's an increase from 4 hits to gain full uber to 10... I'm fine with increasing the number of hits to get full uber, giving it some other nerf, or outright redesigning this weapon, but that's a +150% increase from its current state, I don't think anyone would use it after a change like that
25% uber on hit, -10% uber build rate on user
Now its balanced
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 that would just encourage battle medic, and it would be a general handicap to a medic playing with his team since he wouldn't have as many opportunities to get an ubersaw swing, I definitely think it shouldn't have a stat like that. 5% Less uber per hit and no random crits is fine for me
IMO the Solemn Vow is just as good as the Ubersaw since 25% Uber is really fucking good, but most of the time you use it you end up loosing all of it to dying anyways. And even if it isn’t that good it is a direct upgrade from stock and thus most certainly not on the same tier
"Just as good as the Ubersaw" may be a bit of a stretch, but I agree that it's very underrated. It's my go to Medic melee.
I need this weapon so badly
Its meta in competitive since no competent players gonna let you ubersaw them anyway
Solemn vow isn't a straight upgrade anymore, they nerfed the swingspeed (not a big change but isn't one of the two direct upgrades anymore)
@@yumm186 i said direct upgrade as 10% is completely negligible and doesnt change anything
Man, that intermission is really heartwarming. Thank you for today video!
About The Amputator, I think it would only need a small addition, something I'm borrowing from Lucio in Overwatch, which would to highlight the area that is affected by the taunt, so that other players know where to stand to get the heals and so the medic can also better position himself.
The Amputator is insanely good with defending corners. For example, the main entrance of Doublecross. You can heal everyone around the corner while you aren't able to be hit.
bad water 3rd point is also extremely good
I love amputator medics. I love targets that don't move when they get bombed around a corner, stabbed.
I also love that they are too occupied taunting to build uber properly
The 3 spies on the enemy team: _allow us to introduce ourselves_
@@John_Smith_Dumfugg the 4 spies and the 5 snipers on the enemy team
How in the hell do you put the stock bonesaw on the same level as the solemn vow? The SV is awesome in casual, it lets you decide if you should run away or punish your attacker. It's so much more useful than stock at the very least
SV should also allow your patient to see enemy health
in my experience the solemn vow is an upside when they are farther away. but once they are right in your face knowing their health doesn't matter when you know you can't outdamage them and the swingspeed of the bonesaw can really make a difference.
@@crissis3263 wait it does?
@@JoNarDLoLz *should.
sorry my bad
The problem is that in higher level play, and as a medic, you're probably already aware of the enemies health and already have a decent idea of what it is depending on the damage you witnessed.
I agree on the Ubersaw nerf. It's way too good to do what it does and not have a heftier penalty. I would honestly add no random critical hits along with the % drop to 20 and now we're talking reasonable.
Why not just alter the stock melee so we don't have to constantly balance melee weapons so they are on-par with options that were bad to begin with?
This goes for every class except for spy engie and demo. It gets annoying to constantly have to contend with this idea that all the melee weapons aren't allowed to be objectively better than stock when 80% of the time stock melee was an objectively garbage option from the start.
Yeah, the ubersaw is objectively better than stock. But it's clearly not OP and noone in their right mind thinks it is. SO BUFF STOCK.
15% uber per swing wouldn't be significant, 25% is too good.
20% is really the sweetspot
@UCEDY5IBin3uaQZTNgXMoZCw no. the ubersaw is better than every. single. medic. meele. by a long shot, you want to use the vita saw? why not just use the uber saw if you're gonna risk that much for less uber? also here's a health penalty because FUCK YOU, want to use the amputator? you better get good with that crossbow aim otherwise whoops you have absolutely no self defense! unless you dont use the crossbow, but the crossbow is omega op why wouldnt you use it. you want to use the solemn vow? unless you're playing fucking valve comp (because community comp has banned like half of the fuckin' weapons in the game) good luck killing anything but the spy that was gonna die anyways as the weakest class in the game. yeah thats why the ubersaw is overpowered, theres these other meeles with stupid downsides and upsides that dont matter but the ubersaw is so much simpler. swing SLIGHTLY slower, 25% uber on hit, guaranteed critical hits. nerf the ubersaw volvo pls pls pls pls pls
Way slower swing speed would be a good nerf.
I remember as medic with stock cross sign fighting a ubersaw medic... And I lost, Ubersaw should VERY rarely win melee fights, so even slower swing speed would be fine
@@OMalleyTheMaggot the uber saw is really op though. a f2p spy can give you half uber, 75% if he cloaks.
No, thank you zesty. you manage to make a knowlegeable and thoughtfull arguement on your choices yet still make it entertaining. a very rare trait.
But his main argument about his main criticism, the vaccinator, is just... wrong. If you go full invulnerability, you have 2.5 seconds of it.
I genuinely think medic needs more items. The class barely has any, and it doesn’t help that every melee and syringe gun is completely invalidated by the existence of the crossbow and ubersaw, lowering the effective selection even more.
The solemn vow is better than the ubersaw
@@Gofaw Pffft
Medic main here (a fairly decent one, I might say)
One thing about vaccinator's possible nerf I've had in my mind - the amount of resistance would depend on how much Uber you had charged up - it would always grant full crit resistance, but the amount of normal damage resistance would have to scale up via the amount of bubbles you have ready. Once you use the Uber, you instantly use all the bubbles and gain scaled damage resistance. However, I've never thought about the time, if they'd better keep the 2.5 seconds or increase it too, depending on the number of charges = less bubbles with less damage resistance and less time vs. more bubbles stocked up for more damage resistance and longer Uber time
The vita saw can save up to 60 percent of uber, not percent of your uber percentage, just to clarify
THANK YOU ZESTY! The over-dose is amazing! And something Iv'e figured out through experimenting is that is in fact had a hidden upside of better accuracy! It does not curve down as much which makes it easier to aim at and kill others.
I remember when everyone said the vaccinator was terrible because of how complicated it was to use, and I went "wow, you guys are weak, I'm going to learn how to use this thing and do great" and I did and I find it hilarious that only now everyone is complaining about it. I was using it before it was cool dangit. I honestly like it BECAUSE using it is more involved. juggling the extra mechanic of resistance switching is fun, since its one extra thing to do. hate me if you want but I love the thing.
i spent over 100h to get good at it . and i love it for the same reasons you talked about . don't forget the Vac tech with the crossbow is even higher skill .
For some reason I love the amputator, I think it's one of the most underrated weapons in the game.
This soothes the pain of lazypurple quitting when he only had medic left to do in his feel to play series
What happened to LazyPurple?
wait what, he quit? When?
Wait what?
Maybe he's taking very very very very long to do it idk y'all
@@thaliddell he got ligma.
I like the vaccinator because it makes demoknight into a legitimate option and because it makes snipers cry. The melee fights that I've seen break out when both sides have the vaccinator are hilarious. I know that it has a serious negative effect on the game, but I don't want to to get fixed until certain other issues are addressed first.
I think that the ubersaw should have a slow deploy speed and a movement penalty. You can't switch it out, land a hit and bale anymore. You have to think before you use it and there's a risk in doing so. The high reward is unchanged though.
While syringe guns aren't preferred, especially stock, I really just like the design of stock and the overdose. The clear casing showing all the syringes that you refill, the overdose's quirky design with the medkit just haphazardly attached along with the tubing. I still love the Crossbow design and such, but the syringe guns I feel tie more into Medic's chaotic and violent nature.
The reason Medic has so many terrible weapons is pretty much because they're not the Crossbow and Ubersaw
You forgot to say 2 things about self healing:
*Quickfix* : You can fully heal yourself when your use the charge.
*Kritzkrieg* : You can heal yourself a bit with your perform the Oktoberfest taunt (which heals for 11 hp in 4 seconds).
The Oktoberfest isn't really notable except for 1 situation; afterburn after ending a fight with a pyro. Aside from that, standing still for that long feels like a death sentence.
@@MsMollieMac
Sure it's rare to use it wisely but sometimes it's the difference between death and life.
Apparently unpopular opinion about the Vaccinator: I've personally never found it to be much of a problem. I feel like the only reason people hate the Vaccinator so much is due to bots basically forcing you to use it, therefore more people become better with it, and being harder to kill. If the bot crisis never happened, the Vaccinator would be almost perfectly balanced. A steep as hell learning curve for a major reward at the end.
The ONLY change I would personally make to it would be to not allow multiple resistances to be popped at the same time. Say you pop an explosive resistance, but then you have a Scout or Heavy shooting at you, so you switch to bullet resist. Even if that 2.5 seconds for the Vacc bubble wasn't up, that previous explosion resistance is now gone, leaving you open to either a Soldier or Demoman to come and wreck house. Plus, this enables Soldiers and Pyros to only have one of their possible damage sources ignored at any given time, allowing them to use the other without issue.
I fucking love the Vaccinator because of how fun it is to use compared to stock medi-guns and ubers.
I only feel a little bad about it being as broken as it is.
Zesty:
"I like this..."
*Crossbow*
"But this is brilliant."
*Escape Plan for Medic*
18:45 A damage penalty would honestly be a buff for the Ubersaw since you could milk more uber from an opponent. Maybe something like a movement penalty while it's out would be more fitting?
If an enemy lets you ubersaw them that many times they deserve to be penalized
I agree, but maybe the fix is mark for death while active? Then using it is a real gamble.
-10% uber build rate on user
- 149 hp on wearer
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 yes
Honestly the only thing I'd do to the vac is to just cut out the fourth bubble entirely, now you're down to 3 bubbles each of which charge in increments of 33% Uber rather than 25% and chaining them together would make the Uber last half a second shorter than other Ubers rather than the current 2 seconds longer, but allow all bubbles to be popped at once for a RTD-Powerplay style resistance where you have a bubble for all 3 damage types but for a very short window.
In addition I'd also lower the uber build rather by a mere 1% so it builds 66% faster and when the target is at full health it gets cut down to 33%, this last change is nothing meaningful but most certainly welcome.
Medic mains will say knowin how to use the vac feels so rewarding : )
Medic main here. Yes lol
Heard people have used the Vaccinator to fuck over cheaters which sounds hilarious, really.
@@ArbitraryOutcome demoknight vac best combo
@@mengie1877 fellow medic main here. Can confirm.
Medic mains be the only one saying it’s well balanced and not OP (including me lol)
**Vaccinator**
I would increase the passive resistance from the vaccinator to 25% and decrease the uber resistance to 50%.
**Vit-a-saw:**
Each hit takes an organ, increases health regen by +2 up to 5 times. Or just straight up heals you on hit, or heals an ally on hit at the expense of your health.
I love the Solemn Vow on certain loadouts (not stock or Krits, since Ubersaw is better on those), and part of it is that it’s super fun to just be able to see that someone is low health and crossbow them with that reverse falloff. And on Quick Fix or Vaccinator, knowing when the enemy Medic is about to Über can be extra useful. I’d give it B tier instead of C tier.
Solemn vow is amazing on any medi gun. The info alone it gives makes it on par with ubersaw. Zesty does not play much medic if he thinks solemn vow os worse than amputator or quick fix is better than kritz.
Solemn vow is essential for good kritz since you need to know when the enemy has uber so you can pop kritz without getting completely negated by uber.
Also ubersaw on kritz is not really worth it.
I'm glad to see a fellow Overdose enjoyer. 15% less damage is only 1 damage less per syringe. That extra movement speed is great of being aggressive and throws people's tracking off. The usefulness when you gotta get to people who need to be topped up for healing at ranges and around corners? I adore the Overdose.
For a nerf for the Vaccinator, I would have a cooldown on activating Uber. Like, not long, just 2 seconds, but it would give a window for the opposing team to take down your Heal target.
Agreed. It would also make it fall in line with the total Uber time for the other mediguns
"Not long" for almost the same time a bubble lasts? Nah.
@@ilusoriob Yeah agreed.
2 seconds is to long.
@@caleb_artzs2533 i think 2 seconds is fine if the cooldown is for 1 target but you can spam on multiple. It'd force medics to not pocket 1 guy (which is the most annoying use of it) and instead rely on giving well timed well planned resistances to multiple people at the same time with the downside that once theyre on vacc cooldown they dont have overheal or a resistance meaning theyre a much easier kill in the long term
Vaccinator: broken (needs rework)
Pyro: im bout to end this mans whole career
No team with half a brain is going to let a pyro get close to you
You said that you read the comment section so I just want to say, how are you doing?
Edit: I just realized you forgot to point out the the kritzcreage can heal yourself when you taunt. This can be useful if you escaped from a pyro that set you on fire and there's no med kit or other medic nearby. I know it's really situational but I still think it deserves to be pointed out.
*points at crossbow*
This is brilliant.
*Gestures to overdose*
... But I like this.
Incorrect, the syringe gun is A tier
You mean s tier (I'm kidding btw)
@@Soapromancer also it fuckin MELTS every class if you have crits
@@Soapromancer nah lol , its (S+)ock
Lmao
IF you hit, else it is awful
I like using the Vaccinator when there's this one dipshit conch box soldier dive bombing spawn and somehow dominating half my team
Vac being able to hinder bots for the minor downside of you actually needing to play competently to fight against it really isn't that bad
Competitive Players 🤝 Casual Players 🤝 Hating Vaccinator.
I think the vita saw is pretty decent. The thing is, when you pull out your melee to defend yourself, you're probably at risk of dying anyways, so you can at least try to save some uber for your next life
The problem is if you pull it out just before you die, you're pulling it out too late. You might at max get two organs, which is such a miniscule amount of Uber saved it wasn't worth it over the +25% and potential full survival of the Ubersaw or long-life utility of the Amputator. In order to get max use out of the Vita Saw, you need a LOT of organs, which means a lot of melee, and going for melee with Medic regularly with only 140 HP is practically suicidal behavior.
Loving the content Zesty, it truly is appreciated how much you are willing to just speak your mind and the honesty in the intermission sections of these videos is greatly appreciated also thank you editor
As someone who plays vac med a lot, I prefer to call it a knowledge check that many pub players just don't pass :)
Vaccinator is a skill based medi gun. It's difficult to cycle bubbles on people. Respect the bubbles it may be annoying to play against but so does any other player who's good with a weapon.
I mean yes but there's not many other guns in TF2 that can functionally just remove classes from viability as the vaccinator. For as little healing as it takes to build Uber, you can cycle blast and bullet bubbles to turn 8 out of the nine classes (excluding hue long heater heavy) from being able to kill you. The last one is left with either charging you suicidally or doing a pittance of damage from afair with a projectile weapon, unless they land 2 shots in a row.
In my opinion vaccinator needs less Uber build up (certainly doesn't need the faster Uber buildup considering you don't have to wait the full 40 seconds) and maybe a side- nerf of more flame based weapons for other classes. I.e. incendiary grenade launcher rounds for demo
@@timtamthemememan5094 the vaccinator has a clear indicator of when it's healing someone you know what you're doing when you decide to confront the vac. Scouts can pepper and force bubbles with chip damage or using the cleaver which can't be resisted along with the wrap assassin (their speed let's them bail when needed too), Soldiers dps, range, and mobility allows him to pressure the medic into wasting bubbles as well along with being able to jump out whenever, Pyro flamethrowers actively reduce the amount of resistance and healing along with the third degree and axtinguisher being heavy counters to vac (ability to m2 when you're retreating is good along with the close quarters playstyle Pyro already has), Demo to my knowledge has the capability to shred vacs with stickies and pipes with traps being able to still one shot the medic with enough stickies (demoknight is a melee class so that works too), heavy shouldn't even be trying to fight a vac and if he's caught out of position he'll die which can happen with anything jumping a heavy (fists of steel and gru are good for rushing the med or pocket if you're desperate), Engi's sentry can shred through med pops and even use the wrangler to just fight back the combo (the sentry rockets and bullets make it devastating too), Sniper forces medics to preemptively pop bubbles to cross sight lines which wastes their capabilities (more or less jarate bushwaka can kill med), spy has the enforcer or literally any knife. Along with this the amount of focus fire is active in pubs and comp is plentiful the vac thrives on forcing players into fights they can't win. If the med can juggle bubbles in a fight that's mastery over the medigun not brainless damage sponging like other weapons that's why f2ps usually drop it for being so different and hard to master. Plus a medigun like this makes medic really fun to play I've used it for a while and carrying with it feels earned not cheap.
don’t mind me, I’m a just a solemn vow med seething and coping with c tier
4:30 me with my strange 3rd degree feel the exact same way
With the Amputator you are rewarded for good positioning and timing. Absolutely his best melee other than the Ubersaw.
Not other than. Best
I only pull out the VAC to fuck over the unstoppable crit-demo combo
I always use the amputator thanks to the extra regeneration and aoe healing when taking cover when low on health
Part of solemn vows value when used in competitive is that you also see other medics Uber charge in addition to everyone's health, which can allow you to not only call appropriate focus fires but also instead of maybe guessing the other teams Uber within a rough range, you have exact knowledge. Sometimes a medic could have been spamming crossbows for a bit or they aren't building efficiently, and so instead of playing it safe you can capitalize off those Uber advantages with certainty as opposed to accidentally taking a bad exchange. And also yeah people are generally tracking damage but if the other medic is crossbowing people you might not catch everyone that got healed so you can focus down the people who haven't been bowed yet
Just this man ranting for the longest time about the vaccinator just makes me want to use it more. ( yes I am a medic main and the vaccinator is my second most used medigun )
The Blutsauger works for those scouts that are expecting you to have the crossbow and miss. They run at you juking for the single shot then run at you in a straight line, but I have the blutsauger and am recovering health more rapidly than they expect and they die because they were running in a straight line.
Also it works if you use the gravity the syringes are subjected to as a way to spam at enemies to recover some health when you are behind cover.
Well zesty, thanks to you for the great content, hope you stay safe
pyro flames also reduce the crit immunity on a Vac bubble as well meaning the phlog can kill a vac medic relatively well even with a fire damage resistance.
You should make a video about the Vaccinator alone and tell us how much you hate it lmao
I often find the mirror movement effect of the Quick Fix a bad thing more often than not. I'll be topping people off, one of them rocket jumps and then I end up flying randomly and get murdered.
Man yells about life beam for 8 minutes
Kritz's need to be in a voice call is negated by something called the V key. It magically lets you tell your team right in their ear youre about to right click
I wanna see the ubersaw nerfed so medics actually use more than just one melee that so heavily outclasses all the others. Give it a draw/holster speed penalty and have it only be like 15 uber per hit, not 25.
Just make it marked for death for 5 seconds after pulling it out. Discourages people to just run at others with it, and makes it really last resort, or a big risk
Also, if you see this comment before the Engineer stream, I have been working on a rework for the Wrangler, and here is the changes:
1. Make you take no damage from your sentry while active. This gives mobile Engineer a buff, and with my nerfs, it would need it.
2. If the Sentry is hit, you lose metal, based on how much damage the Barrier stops. And if you have no metal, Barrier is disabled. This gives the Wrangler counter play, and uses resources from the Engineer.
3. If you hit the Engineer while it's active, disable the sentry and Barrier for a short time. Like 1 damage disables both for .03 seconds. This gives the enemy some choices on which to target.
4. No metal from dispensers while active. This hurts turtle Engineers mostly.
5. If the Engineer dies, or changes weapon, remove the Barrier and disable the Sentry for 3 seconds.
Hope you see these changes.
This... actually sounds like some cool changes. The idea of using metal as sort of wrangler "health" is a really cool idea.
No, no, no
Do NOT decrease the damage on the Ubersaw
Why give the Medic more potential swings to gain uber?
Reduce the amount of uber gain, that's it
Vita saw is great for giving the enemy team with snowball weapons (e.g eyelander, bazzar bargain) an extra head(s) for activating the weapon's main upside.
A good way to nerf the vaccinator would be to only allow one type of bubble at a time. As for making it easier for new players I have no clue
Alsoooo maaaaybe no charge gain while bubble is active. Maybe.
My proposed change for the vita-saw is to make the übercharge retention active not after death and instead after the use of übercharge, with a slight effectiveness nerf.
Change organs from 15% -> 10%
So after 4 organs you get 40% über after using up an übercharge.
It makes it a nice side grade to the ubersaw on the condition you can stay alive.
that vitasaw in combination with the vaccinator would be busted lmao
make it so it only returns a % of the uber used so 1 organ on a vacc uber is 2.5% returned
Medic main:
I wonder if reducing the Vax resistance to something like 50% and slightly increasing the amount of time it takes to get a bubble but making the bubbles last slightly longer so it isn’t just a complete and total Valve Nerf™ could be a good option.
i think the "+67% übercharge rate" is actually the problem
50% down from 75% is actually too strong of a nerf. (1/4 -> 1/2). At which point you might as well just use anything else.
The problem is more on just how you can just fuck literally anyone over in 1v1 for free.
A good start would probably be to make it not charge while you’re ubering someone
@@Soapromancer imo that just doubles down on the weakness and doesn’t actually do anything to nerf it in the situations people dislike it
I like the Vaccinator since it's the anti-medicgf tool, it's hilarious to watch.
But Thank you for talking about the Dragon Fury, I've been getting kicked from MvM for using Dragon Fury. It does DMG for days, and it's perfectly balanced. If it could krit I'd be overpowered imo, but genuinely thank you for talking about my favorite flamethrower! I WANT A STRANGE DRAGON FURY!!!!
The Vax is a super interesting weapon, and I've got a real love/hate relationship with it. I love the general design of it and the way it works for the most part, but it's still ridiculously overpowered. I think the only thing you could do to fix it is to slow the rate at which it can build uber down IMMENSELY, building 4 bubbles with the Vax should be as slow as the Stock Uber, or at most the speed of the Quick Fix.
Also the Kritzkrieg is my favorite Medi Gun to use, and the communication problem is easily dealt with using in game voice chat nine times out of ten.
All of the medic's primaries should be lowered 1 tier just because the crossbow exists. Its that good.
I think an interesting change to the Vita-Saw would be removing the Uber keeping and instead allowing it to "siphon" health from a target and store it to be injected later for a short bonus to your passive healing rate, upping it to say, an additional 4-6 HP for ~5 seconds? With a cooldown on usage (or just straight up collection) of the next burst of health. You are trading 10 HP for the chance to save your ass from afterburn, or a bit of health to help you run away.
Which is a really convoluted way of saying "I want Medic to shoot heroin"
ayy i've been waiting for this
Speaking of good medic videos, there’s also a video that I forgot whats it called, a collab of meet the medic, one of those medic ytp collabs. Yeah that’s a good one for the anniversary.
I would never stop using Vaccinator and laughing at anyone who cries about how broken this weapon is. Why people never complain about how broken Soldier and Demo as classes are in the right hands? The Vaccinator it THE ONLY weapon in the game that reliably shuts down the incoming rocket / sticky spam. Valve, never listen this guy and never nerf this weapon.
Well, you can die when a single soldier/demo spams explosives, but you have many options to avoid them. Soldier or demo never were op (and ofc broken) even if they are the most versatile and mobile "killing" classes. And "the rights hands" that can pull off some crazy shit with fr market gardener or pipe direct aiming ect should deserve the victory, and it's called "high skill ceiling". And "higher" skill in an ideal case should beat "lesser"
But vaccinator grants buffs comparable to a 2 seconds uber, but 4 times quicker and more disposal. It's just more powerful than stock while not asking for more skill really
I know the amputator doesn't really need a change but it would make me happy if its' downside was swapped with the ubersaw's. ubersaw would still be stronger but it would feel a lot better to use the amputator.
also it would be cool if there was a medic secondary similar to the crossbow that worked more like the huntsman, where you have to charge it to do more healing from a distance, like it would have scaling projectile speed and healing based on charge, and the healing and damage would be consistent rather than based on distance.
My favorite is
- CRUSADER CROSSBOW
- Quick Fix
- Ubersaw
I love using the stock syringe gun since it's a middle ground between the blutsogher and the overdose. I helps you survive, regen and deal decent damage. And the overdose's tracking doesn't click with me
ayyy ive been waiting for this
You can decently negate a Vacc med with the Sydney sleeper, the minicrits allow you to do almost normal damage to the uber duo. I like doing this as it makes sniper more of the support class he was intended to be.
The opening minute: Zesty is an anti-vaxxer confirmed
lmao
Vita really is closer to high-d to low-c. It's a really good melee for when your team can't seem to help keep you alive.
Vita saw is shit. Less health and a downside you can't use unless you: build uber, get melee hits and die... As medic...
Ubersaw is only good because it rewards last ditch efforts (i.e. getting a saw in at 75 or more uber) with an escape or sometimes a saw for 25% if you survive. Vita in comparison makes you die more because you get less health on the class that is the highest in the priority killing list
NERF THE CROSSBOW
NERF THE CROSSBOW
NERF THE CROSSBOW
and make the Ubersaw give 20% instead of 25%
What Team Fortress 2 Classic does with the Uberspritze is pretty much the ubersaw, but you have less health, and is thus a more balanced option overall.