TF2: The Official Scout Weapons Tier List

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 902

  • @Caragoner
    @Caragoner 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1166

    By the way, fun fact, If you're in water the atomizer will always mini crit because swimming counts as being in the air :)
    Forget pyro shark
    Piranha scout

    • @galegopaulista4564
      @galegopaulista4564 3 ปีที่แล้ว +80

      Now I want someone to Photoshop Scout's head into Piranha Plant.

    • @butter5842
      @butter5842 3 ปีที่แล้ว +45

      Also useful to know if you are doing the soda popper contract and you realise you don’t have the skills to build up enough hype. So you can triple jump into water and still get kill progress.

    • @jaredroshaven3380
      @jaredroshaven3380 3 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      New troll playstyle:
      Use the FaN knockback or Shortstop shove to push enemies into bodies of water and then swap to the atomizer to annihilate them via piranha-Scout frenzy.

    • @jmurray1110
      @jmurray1110 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Though it’s only 5 higher damage than stock

    • @bigbear1045
      @bigbear1045 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Pyro shark, Piranha scout and the eal trolldier if it also works for the market gardener. Cool.

  • @snifflysara3065
    @snifflysara3065 3 ปีที่แล้ว +740

    Reasons I use the Sandman:
    A) It looks cool
    B) The taunt kill if I feel like using it
    C) Another projectile weapon I can practice with
    And most importantly
    D) "Hey I found my ball..!"

    • @samuelfreeman5483
      @samuelfreeman5483 3 ปีที่แล้ว +137

      I love my ball!

    • @galegopaulista4564
      @galegopaulista4564 3 ปีที่แล้ว +40

      In MvM, you can upgrade the sandman to also mark enemies to death, not only when hitting them with your melee, but also when hitting them with the ball. So if you have spare money, the Sandman becomes a direct upgrade to the fan of war MvM. So I guess that counts for something, too.

    • @flicker6741
      @flicker6741 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@samuelfreeman5483 uhh

    • @zurielschubert9410
      @zurielschubert9410 3 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      @@galegopaulista4564 Yeah but like, FoW can do just that without any upgrade and at any given time.

    • @yoshyfoods
      @yoshyfoods 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Same lmao, I do NOT use it for it’s gimmick, I only want to have a wooden bat and also say “I love my ball”

  • @glad16252
    @glad16252 3 ปีที่แล้ว +843

    I personally believe the SOAS should get a ball like the Sandman and Wrap Assassin. Some kind of fire ball that hits someone and burns enemies. Would make more use of the other upside and you get the resistance with it out when you fire the ball.

    • @MistakennJ
      @MistakennJ 3 ปีที่แล้ว +57

      that’s a good idea honestly

    • @PineapplePineapplePineapplePin
      @PineapplePineapplePineapplePin 3 ปีที่แล้ว +73

      Give scout a flare gun

    • @presseagainidareyou4704
      @presseagainidareyou4704 3 ปีที่แล้ว +52

      Yeah, and it is different enough from the Wrap Assassin because of fire’s healing decrease

    • @daddysempaichan
      @daddysempaichan 3 ปีที่แล้ว +84

      I think it'll be more funny if you gain crits while on fire. Maybe increased fire resistance while equipped so you're less likely to die while one fire as well.

    • @MrNoahlindsay
      @MrNoahlindsay 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      along with the crits that would make it one of the more fun scout weapons

  • @halt1931
    @halt1931 3 ปีที่แล้ว +470

    Are you still going to spin the wheel even when there's only the Engie left?

    • @galegopaulista4564
      @galegopaulista4564 3 ปีที่แล้ว +126

      I hope he does. It'd be funny.

    • @vinnythewebsurfer
      @vinnythewebsurfer 3 ปีที่แล้ว +66

      He should add the Sandvich to the wheel

    • @turquoise6336
      @turquoise6336 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Lol that'd be amazing.

    • @darthvaderbutwayshittier7054
      @darthvaderbutwayshittier7054 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What about the Sniper?

    • @turquoise6336
      @turquoise6336 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      @@darthvaderbutwayshittier7054 zesty said sniper will be last, so he wasn't going to be on the wheel anyways.

  • @ZaTrapu
    @ZaTrapu 3 ปีที่แล้ว +365

    Fun fact: the sandman's slow down effect sets a class's speed to that of about the same walking speed of a heavy and it slows every class to that speed. It's most effective on scout and is 99% useless on heavy (given the heavy isn't being given a speed boost, have the GRU/EN out, or under the effect of the steak's extra speed)

    • @ZestyJesus
      @ZestyJesus  3 ปีที่แล้ว +180

      IT'S SO BAD MAN I HATE IT

    • @pandapruitt2542
      @pandapruitt2542 3 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Ohhhh thats a good thought, a demoknight that doesn't know how to spam a+d is pretty much screwed huh?

    • @hmmmstvethebaffled7720
      @hmmmstvethebaffled7720 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      If I could fix the sandman I would make it the same as it used to be accept the stun stops you from shooting for much MUCH less time. I would make it so that the slow down stays the same but the player is never taken into a third person stun animation. Basically you hit a heavy with it, he stops firing for one second, is slowed down, and is able to start shooting again without the need to rev up or anything. And of course I’ll bring back the cleaver combo

    • @bruschetta7711
      @bruschetta7711 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      So it's useful on demoknights and scouts, but it's still broken so it sucks anyway
      Afterall you are trading health against ALL classes, in hope to hit a fast as fuck enemy with a slow projectile

    • @pandapruitt2542
      @pandapruitt2542 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@bruschetta7711 its true that it sucks but minus well try and find as many uses for it as possible.

  • @stuff9680
    @stuff9680 3 ปีที่แล้ว +290

    The Sandman had the biggest fall from grace, used to be great and justified the -15 health now the only people who use it are either veterans going on a nostalgia trip or new players who've seen old combo videos

    • @Mantafirefly
      @Mantafirefly 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Yeah, if they took away the health penalty and just gave it something like -20% melee damage then it would be equippable, even if only as an unremarkable melee option.

    • @ChronoSquare
      @ChronoSquare 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I miss playing with my balls :(

    • @Kyle_Reese
      @Kyle_Reese 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Theres a dumb roblox ripoff of tf2 that buffed the sandman, no more health penalty, just melee dmg penalty, and slowdown increases the closer you are to your target, its not OP i think, its just annoying to fight against

    • @dkskcjfjswwwwwws413
      @dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@Kyle_Reese typical colors 2 unironically has some good balance choices

    • @vivelespatat2670
      @vivelespatat2670 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 i.e Sniper not 1 shotting Medic in 0.1 sec

  • @tonyshum5569
    @tonyshum5569 3 ปีที่แล้ว +140

    back scatter is still my guilty pleasure, it's just like the backburner, the less you actively try to get behind someone the more often it'll happen

    • @dripapproved1582
      @dripapproved1582 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      I swear people just turn tail and run when you have it equipped

    • @THEFurfoot
      @THEFurfoot 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      one shotting a light class is a strong dopamine

    • @Froggediah
      @Froggediah ปีที่แล้ว

      It’s helped me get better accuracy when I stop using it because I need to try to shoot more accurate with it and with an even more accurate gun you hit loads of shots. It’s just helped me become a better scout overall

    • @DannyCheezits
      @DannyCheezits ปีที่แล้ว +4

      It's a super underrated training wheels item. It trains ur positioning and secondary usage by making you reliant on them

  • @nicholasho1595
    @nicholasho1595 3 ปีที่แล้ว +167

    Pocket Pistol should have been above stock. The health back on hit, like you said, is meh, but that faster firing rate is useful in any situation, and the lower clip size means nothing since the faster firing rate makes you hit more shots.

    • @GogiRegion
      @GogiRegion 3 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      See, I think that it would be above stock without the healing, but the healing makes it just even better. Sure, it goes through the clip super fast, but the reload is fast enough as is, so you end up dealing more damage. If you can hit your shots, it does a ton super fast. And ideally, it’s a finishing tool anyways, so the downside only affects you if you get into a situation where Scout would probably lose anyways.

    • @mesplin3
      @mesplin3 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@GogiRegion Yeah, the only argument I could see for the pistol being better is for clip size. But as pistols are made to be a finishing tool, you'd rather kill the enemy quicker than later. The health upside is almost irrelevant.

    • @chaoz7370
      @chaoz7370 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      But putting it above stock pistol implies its comparable to mad milk, which it isn't

  • @jtd2117
    @jtd2117 3 ปีที่แล้ว +45

    59:20 For the Shortstop the wiki says... "40% faster fire rate and 40% tighter spread, 20% more knockback from damage, 60% less pellets but each pellet does twice the damage as stock so roughly a 20% damage penalty at base damage, and it's ramp up only goes up to 150% compared to the usual 175%." It should also be noted that crits work differently with this weapon. Instead of 1 shot being a crit... when the random crit get activated you get 2 seconds of guaranteed crits. Enough time to pump out the entire clip btw.

    • @aetu35
      @aetu35 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      thats what happens when you let someone just port a pistol into a primary slot

    • @dkskcjfjswwwwwws413
      @dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      what the hell is the shortstop anymore

    • @CoffeeIssues
      @CoffeeIssues 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      i like calling my shortstop the shotiper (shotgun + sniper) because of its tighter spread lmfao

    • @nicolasdesenvolvedor1642
      @nicolasdesenvolvedor1642 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 its the best scout primary (imo)

  • @CosmicAfro
    @CosmicAfro 3 ปีที่แล้ว +212

    As a wielder of a Collector's Sun on a Stick, I can assure you that you're incredibly wrong on my dear sir. (Pushes up glasses, rubs hands together, and calls your mom on Facebook)
    On paper, the sun's stats do look odd, but the actual effectiveness in pubs is quite high. While yes, a Pyro or... Cowmangler, on occasion, is necessary for this weapon to be fully realized, the amount of times I have outlived a Pyro's flames from either his thrower OR his arsenal of flares thanks to the 3 tick to 4, is actually quite surprising. As a class where every HP point counts in whether you live or die, being able to travel further on fire is an immensely useful benefit.
    Additionally, pyros are in every casual game. There is almost never a time where a Pyro is not present somewhere on a map that is somewhat populated.
    But what REALLY makes this weapon stand out to me is that it's a crit-mechanic weapon WITH random crits enabled. And because the Scattergun is basically Scout's melee, the Sun takes up a very useful slot when you're not doing a gimmick- and frankly has more effectiveness than fish, wrap, cane (because you don't take more damage), FoW. Is it his best in slot? No, Meta dictates the Boston or Atom, but it's not an E tier weapon. Killing someone with this mechanic is rare, but it feels SO satisfying. I've beaten down Heavy's on fire because their health can't regen as fast with a medic, and see Medic's run in horror as their big friend is brutally beaten.
    At worst, it's an alternative stock bat, but at its best its easily busted with its output.

    • @JPthePsycho447
      @JPthePsycho447 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Eyy cosmic

    • @ZestyJesus
      @ZestyJesus  3 ปีที่แล้ว +136

      this is a fair argument and I concede to the lashing

    • @mauriceanderson5413
      @mauriceanderson5413 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@ZestyJesus take it boy

    • @tonyawwwno3364
      @tonyawwwno3364 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @Zesty Zucc counter-counter-point, the sun on a stick uses the same sound effect as the default bat

    • @-RandomStranger-
      @-RandomStranger- 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I agree with everything except the SOAS being better than *fish* .
      _Nothing beats _*_fish_*

  • @sudoku5148
    @sudoku5148 3 ปีที่แล้ว +149

    babe wake up, new zesty tier list

    • @henrybadger785
      @henrybadger785 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Yes honey

    • @the3plyspy
      @the3plyspy 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@henrybadger785 lmao

    • @Whois2th
      @Whois2th 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Okay 🥺💙

    • @_kokku_
      @_kokku_ 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      bet

    • @tal5667
      @tal5667 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@henrybadger785 literally what I was thinking lo

  • @waffles9733
    @waffles9733 3 ปีที่แล้ว +161

    Can't believe Zesty didn't even talk about recoil jumping in the Force-a-Nature segment

    • @lambsauce5312
      @lambsauce5312 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @Jack D Rippr least murderous white person in Western Africa

    • @knines6279
      @knines6279 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      @Jack D Rippr factually incorrect. Has Scout ever said he was a soda popper? Didn’t think so.

    • @-RandomStranger-
      @-RandomStranger- 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      ​@@knines6279 you listening? Okay
      Grass grows
      Sun shines
      And brother...
      I hurt people!
      *_Im a force a nature!_*

  • @OlaftheGreat
    @OlaftheGreat 3 ปีที่แล้ว +108

    I occassionally use the Sandman to annoy people on Degroot Keep (where I'm already going to die in one random crit swing anyway), this is basically the only use I've ever been able to come up for it.

    • @roman108
      @roman108 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Gotta be fun to slow down those pesky charging demoknights huh

    • @vivelespatat2670
      @vivelespatat2670 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@roman108 Till you realise charging as Demoknight remove all debuffs

    • @-RandomStranger-
      @-RandomStranger- 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@vivelespatat2670 muahahahah! 2 year later reply!1!1!1!
      Anyways demoknights cant remove slowdown effects. Infact they prevent demoknights from charging AT ALL and they cant do anything except wait for the debuff to end

    • @Master_Brutus
      @Master_Brutus 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@-RandomStranger-the one thing the sandman is good at. Demoknight counter.

  • @smackeroon688
    @smackeroon688 3 ปีที่แล้ว +90

    SOAS but, passively, while you're on fire you move faster. Kinda like an Escape Plan for Scout but you just go like Baby Face speed while on fire. Every scout experiences the pain of burning to death in front of a health pack, and this could make for a funny gimmuck weapon.

    • @krypto9071
      @krypto9071 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I like the idea but baby faces blaster speed is a bit ridiculous

    • @ferdithetank7535
      @ferdithetank7535 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@krypto9071 Except that it doesn't work in that corner case, since afterburn completely wrecks your boost

    • @smackeroon688
      @smackeroon688 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@krypto9071 it only works while you're receiving constant damage as the second frailest class in the game. And it only works when fighting the Pyro. I'm not gonna say it works for heavy too cuz of the bio long because if you get that close to a revved heavy I'd be shocked if you didn't die even with that movement speed

    • @homicidalrhino7266
      @homicidalrhino7266 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@smackeroon688 anything that makes the scout faster is op and a passive buff like that would have scouts using nothing but the soan and just be Pyro counters

    • @susko5673
      @susko5673 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's a great idea

  • @purplehaze2358
    @purplehaze2358 3 ปีที่แล้ว +136

    The stun glitch shouldn’t be an instant “Terrible weapon” label for weapons that slow opponents because, at least in my experience, the vast majority of players don’t think to channel the soul of a scout main and spam A and D really fast when they get stunned. Even people who know about the glitch rarely think to do so in the heat of the moment. I can assure you, the sandman is a terrible weapon for reasons other than that.

    • @scouttf2143
      @scouttf2143 3 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      It’s bad because the upside is practically useless, why slow down a demoman when you can just use your primary to kill them? It’s basically the stock bat with a really big downside

    • @Dog-999i
      @Dog-999i 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      Whenever I use the Sandman it feels like the slowdown affect doesn’t change anything (except for my health).

    • @didsomeoneaskforanegg2168
      @didsomeoneaskforanegg2168 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      It's not even mashing ad, all you need to do is walk diagonally. I main bonk scout and it's stupidly easy to mitigate it

    • @homesinc
      @homesinc 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      its still awful because lowering speed is a weak mechanic whilst the lowered max hp is an awful penalty

    • @sevendeadlysquids404
      @sevendeadlysquids404 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Well, my understanding is it's in the "broken/needs reworked" category because the bug exists, even if the bug is not abused in most circumstances, it shouldn't be present. The weapon is undeniably broken in its current state. Even without the issue, it's still so awful I wouldn't be surprised if he argued it belongs in the category anyways.

  • @superequinox4185
    @superequinox4185 3 ปีที่แล้ว +53

    I think this series is actually important in the TF2 sphere. A lot of your views on balance and design runs contrary to the wider discussion. I don't personally agree with a lot of what you say, but your dissenting voice is refreshing

  • @Shaymaru
    @Shaymaru 3 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    I wish Zesty didn’t feel the need to instinctively assume people freak out when he places an item in a tier and felt the need to do that voice thing to acknowledge counter arguments. It happens a lot and it’s just very exhausting. I enjoy when Zest is just enjoying whatever he’s talking about instead, or is a little more restrained in his scripted videos.

    • @TheGlenn8
      @TheGlenn8 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Yeah, seeing someone talk to their strawman is pretty lame.

    • @maikidot
      @maikidot 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Yeah it's really obnoxious honestly, like it's fine if it's like rare but it happens literally every 5 minutes and it got old very fast.

  • @stuffstuff6932
    @stuffstuff6932 3 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    My idea for the sandman is to give it its mvm upgrade of mark for death. Having the duration based on the distance it was thrown and adding back the sandman cleaver combo but without any help from slowing effects.

    • @concorde837
      @concorde837 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Oi, that could be good

    • @nathan_thorn6906
      @nathan_thorn6906 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Hmm… might be good but maybe balance the old cleaver/sandman thing to simply use the minicrit boosted damage so the target still takes a solid chunk of damage, 70~ damage + bleed is plenty to wound someone into finishing range for a scattergun shot.

  • @PFSnypr
    @PFSnypr 3 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    Ive literally just been waiting Engi lmfao, the odds are not in my favor

    • @ZestyJesus
      @ZestyJesus  3 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      we're doing the engineer tomorrow on stream, so you don't have to wait much longer

    • @aperson4287
      @aperson4287 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ZestyJesus My Engie main senses are tingling.

  • @vinnythewebsurfer
    @vinnythewebsurfer 3 ปีที่แล้ว +77

    Scout had to be one of the most heavily adjusted character in this game and he’s still busted, it’s crazy

    • @susragejr477
      @susragejr477 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Busted?

    • @bl1tz533
      @bl1tz533 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@susragejr477 yknow the schtick. Sandman Cleaver is overpowered but puff and sting isnt

    • @МатвейМасалов-ф1р
      @МатвейМасалов-ф1р 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Thing is, base Scout and stock weapons were never changed after release!

    • @trice286
      @trice286 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      It doesn't matter how much you change his weapons. As long as his stock is good, he will always be insane. You can't nerf him directly because scout is alright in pubs compared to comp.

    • @DoodleZoo
      @DoodleZoo ปีที่แล้ว

      @@МатвейМасалов-ф1рthat’s not true

  • @theghostly4328
    @theghostly4328 3 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Thank god the FaN is super good and has the best rush of dopamine when you land that second shot that never gets old. I hope to god that the comp players don’t make this weapon have a nerf because it’s truly the best weapon

    • @didsomeoneaskforanegg2168
      @didsomeoneaskforanegg2168 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      FaN is fun but it sucks ass. It pushes ppl away from your intended range, reloads super slowly, and makes it so you can't shoot airborne without launching yourself backwards

    • @dripapproved1582
      @dripapproved1582 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@didsomeoneaskforanegg2168 You can supper jump if you aim it perfectly.
      Also if people would stop timing shots with it and just stick it in someone’s back and let lose I swear you’ll find it much more bearable. Everyone I watch use it shoots one shot waits a second then shoots again! NO that’s wrong it’s a double barrel baby, unless you are engaging at mid ranges don’t use it like his other primaries.

  • @grum9536
    @grum9536 3 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    I wish the sandman wasn’t nerfed so hard, I love the voicelines for it but I just can’t use it

  • @The___Rat
    @The___Rat 3 ปีที่แล้ว +38

    I missed the stream, but my personal fix for the Sandman is to make it stun people if it headshots them. They can still move but can’t shoot. Therefore it takes skill and aim, and you can keep the slow effect on a body shot, I feel that would be fine. And a headshot wouldn’t slow either, it’d be a whole new effect.

    • @galegopaulista4564
      @galegopaulista4564 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I like that change, but I'm not sure if it's enough to save the Sandman from being bellow average. I think it needs something else on top of that, but I'm not sure what.

    • @The___Rat
      @The___Rat 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@galegopaulista4564 hey, below average is better than broken bad, right? And I could see it being terrifyingly annoying if you get good with it, like the Amby.

    • @aperson4287
      @aperson4287 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Personally I really like the idea FSOAS proposed of making the ball mark people for death, so it could be a long range Fan O War, so you can combo from afar.

    • @mariustan9275
      @mariustan9275 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think it should mark people for death instead because if anything similar at all that limits other people happened on hit, it would still be frustrating. I mean some people still complain about the Natascha. I like the other idea people have where it marks people for death on hit instead.

  • @z1u512
    @z1u512 3 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    I could probably buy tf2 from valve if I have a dollar for everytime zesty says the word "hideously" or "competitive" in his videos.

  • @thatfurry5579
    @thatfurry5579 3 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    "Is a balancing mechanic for single fire weapons"
    Proceeds to list 3 autofire weapons

  • @timothytosser288
    @timothytosser288 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    40:15 what research phd is zesty doing?

  • @MsGhoulz
    @MsGhoulz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Backscatter is pointless.
    The number of times I die instantly from a random crit from a scout's scattergun....

    • @CoffeeIssues
      @CoffeeIssues 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      i remember once having 20-30 hp and getting SNIPED (yes,sniped) by a scout's scattergun crit. needless to say we both were confused lmfao

  • @NoahtheGameplayer
    @NoahtheGameplayer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    36:30 so you rather die and wait for 20 seconds respawn, okay man sure,
    I mean it's all about survivability just to not die and having to wait 20 seconds again, that's why bonk is A Tier

  • @Metro_Stalin_Mayer
    @Metro_Stalin_Mayer 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    If there's something I will always be proud is to be the one caused Zesty the breakdown about the milky jokes

  • @WAtheAnum
    @WAtheAnum 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    the problem i have the candy cane are 2 things but mostly 1 next to, we all know, its WAY to hard +damage:
    It DROPS small health kits from the player you KILLED. this means "you" have to run to your target you killed and get it - and if not *anyone else can collect it which means it can even BACKFIRE if an ENEMY collects the kit drop.* Srs to say is that this weapon needs a total overhaul. lIke from ground up.

  • @ratcrusher3251
    @ratcrusher3251 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I think I remember you saying something about being a geologist or something, so i have a question: Does soapstone taste like Dawn or Ivory?

    • @ZestyJesus
      @ZestyJesus  3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      palmolive

    • @TheGlenn8
      @TheGlenn8 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Tastes like soap, duh.

  • @ashtongiertz8728
    @ashtongiertz8728 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    4:08 should still stun after a certain distance, say 60% of moonshot distance causes shoot stun, and moonshots completely stun. Then it would have a use as an anti-sniper tool, which this game desperately needs more of.

    • @mariustan9275
      @mariustan9275 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think people would still complain about that, no matter how skilled it is. People don't like to suddenly have their movement taken away. Maybe instead make it so it marks people for death or maybe an alternate version, highlight peopel through walls to mark a sniper.

  • @illegallyblind6916
    @illegallyblind6916 3 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Sandman is good, because you can crouch or be really close to a wall, then hold down m2. You can hear rapid crack sounds all across the map, and its funny annoying the enemy team.

  • @Thefrostedslime
    @Thefrostedslime 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    "Boston basher helps medic build uber"
    Fist of Steel heavies: Obesrve

  • @_telia
    @_telia 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    You can actually get an exact spread value from the CTX files. You need a decompiler, but the shortstop has a spread value of 0.04, and the scattergun has a spread value of 0.0675 (~1.7x tighter spread.) The shortstop has the exact same spread value as the pistol.

    • @llmkursk8254
      @llmkursk8254 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      This… Makes a lot of sense.

    • @dkskcjfjswwwwwws413
      @dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      its literally just the pistol you have got to be kidding me

    • @vivelespatat2670
      @vivelespatat2670 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      When a pistol try to become a primary weapon :

  • @Dramilos
    @Dramilos ปีที่แล้ว +1

    the virgin force a nature vs the gigachad shortstop

  • @adrianbyrdziak5130
    @adrianbyrdziak5130 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Idea for a sandman; what if the stun duration was reversed - the closer you are, the longer the stun will lust. In that situation it would be more like "I have half health, and need to reload. I can't win this battle, have a ball in the face, and don't chase me while I run". So, more like a panic attack in the functionality

    • @minimum850
      @minimum850 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah, and then a scout can run up to somebody and stun them, then pull out his scattergun at his effective rwnge

    • @adrianbyrdziak5130
      @adrianbyrdziak5130 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@minimum850 I don't think that's a big deal because people can shoot (it's a slow down, not a stun). The great strength of the scout is that he sticks his shotgun up your ass, firing the first bullet and before you manage to react the shoots again. Informing enemy of your existence as a scout, with an attack that deals very little damage is generally ... not recommended. The only situation where you are right is where the scout slows down a medic who is unable to defend himself too much. Any other class can shoot back. And when the scout is so close to you ... running away won't work anyway. With or without a slowdown. You have to kill him or you die. Slow down really doesn't effect this that much

    • @-RandomStranger-
      @-RandomStranger- 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@adrianbyrdziak5130 this is a late reply, but didn't you say "stun" in your original comment?

  • @the_exxtra1425
    @the_exxtra1425 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I think the sandman could reflect projectiles but slower swing speed and be an inverse of its current state.
    Instead of being more squishy, reflecting rockets and pills while traveling could make him survive more

  • @TheJosiahTurner
    @TheJosiahTurner 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    i think that the sandman should be given some form of interruption mechanic, for the duration of the slow, it could disable/postpone your ability to: use banners/keep banner effects, use uber/stay ubered (if you arent using stock uber), cloak, charge/keep charging (if you hit a charging demo it will stop them), keep a minigun revved (it would forcefully unrev the heavy and force him to rev again), unscope a sniper, etc
    you could hit a buff banner soldier during a push and cut like 3 seconds off of his ability to mini crit, you could make a vacc medic uninstall the game, you could hit a building to disable it for a few seconds, cowmangler style, catch a spy lackin and take his ability to cloak away, screw up a heavy's push by unrevving him, put an end to the 50 head demoknight's killstreak by cucking his charge, make a sniper unable to quickscope you when you approach, screw up a kritz uber
    etc
    also uber building aside, the BB is literally a direct upgrade if you can land your hits

    • @fakename5881
      @fakename5881 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      thats honestly one of the neatest balance ideas for the sandman ive ever seen

    • @vivelespatat2670
      @vivelespatat2670 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      "Unrrev a heavy" that's just old sandman

  • @cosmicmanta7340
    @cosmicmanta7340 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    1:00:00 Since it uses the T-shape, it effectively has a tighter spread by sqrt2, because it's missing the further-out corner pellets.

  • @casualsoapmuncher561
    @casualsoapmuncher561 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I never use the backscatter because I think it’s superior, but I do use it to sharpen up my aim, the -20% accuracy helps you adapt and hit your shots more, especially after switching back to stock. I used it starting out and I definitely recommend to anyone trying to get good as scout

  • @ashtongiertz8728
    @ashtongiertz8728 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    4:20 think, zesty, think! Who's usually sitting across the map? Which class is most likely to be at moonshot distance? What class is most likely to stick around on one spot long enough to get hit by a moonshot?

    • @RobbertRobbert12345
      @RobbertRobbert12345 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah I'm not sure anybody ever thinks of who that weapon effected the most.

    • @inkubus6192
      @inkubus6192 ปีที่แล้ว

      All nerfs to every other class must be made in service of the one long-ranged class in the game.

  • @WooHooLadttv
    @WooHooLadttv 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Commenting because I'm a simp for your channel
    Also, c\/m.

  • @thatkoboldgaming7114
    @thatkoboldgaming7114 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    35:42 You’re half right, comp players cried about it because if a scout overextended, he could duck around a corner, drink, and run away back to his team.

  • @Walker443
    @Walker443 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Can’t wait to see you review on the new tf2 Halloween skins

  • @CharlieMcGill2006
    @CharlieMcGill2006 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Potential Rework Idea for The Sandman:
    + Launches A ball that Inflicts afterburn on whoever it hits for a duration that depends on how far the ball traveled (like in cartoons how a fast moving projectile is on fire. Maybe it could have a little particle effect)
    - No Random Crits
    - 25% slower firing speed
    I feel like this could combo really well with the cleaver (yes ik sandman cleaver combo) since you could get stacking after burn and bleed damage that you could finish them off with your scattergun

  • @yaboichangkaishek3460
    @yaboichangkaishek3460 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Yes lord zesty blessing us with god like content

  • @yobber757
    @yobber757 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I really like how your opinions are different than the hundreds of pyro joe clones that make tf2 content

  • @shallowgod5539
    @shallowgod5539 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Honestly I think the PBPP is BETTER than the stock pistol. The extra speed for the unnoticable mag reduction is so good for the gun's uses and the health on hit is just a cherry on top. You'd be surprised how far 20+ hp will get you in a fight: it greatly extends your combat effectiveness alone because you keep yourself topped up.

  • @Frient
    @Frient 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I like how your "tryhard" voice is just Jerma

  • @DinnerForkTongue
    @DinnerForkTongue 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    I've said it before and will say it again: please keep being a scholar geophysicist, Z. Changing your life to revolve around a fickle social media heat algorithm that panders to the lowest common denominator of watchers, as you said, is a _shitty_ idea.

  • @mythos951
    @mythos951 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Simple change for the sandman: instead of making the ball give a slow effect, have it give marked for death. Essentially, make this weapon a ranged fan of war. You don’t even need to change the downside.

  • @blacklight683
    @blacklight683 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Why is the first comment just Boston?did I miss something?

  • @schweppley1614
    @schweppley1614 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Even though the sandman sucks balls, I still use it because the noise it makes when you stun someone is nostalgic to me, when valve nerfed this weapon into the ground, a part of me died, for all the weapons they nerfed into the ground, I’ll never forgive them for this one, there is no excuse for a weapon this horrible

  • @ArtistiqueMusic
    @ArtistiqueMusic 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I really liked the idea of the Sandman + Guillotin3 combo being the most effective way for a scout to take down a heavy quickly, because heavy often counters scout as they are both close range classes. I'm not sure how to rework it, but I do think that having the sandman + guillotine being a high single-target damage weapon combo is a very appealing idea, but pulling something like that off would have to require a high skill ceiling.

    • @chocox6491
      @chocox6491 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The sandman was killed because of that combo, all valve had to do is remove the crit on stunt players but in good old fashioned way valve killed the weapon

    • @fangrowls6336
      @fangrowls6336 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@chocox6491 no its the opposite, people despised it because of the stun. Not the crit.
      Or at least a combination of the 2

  • @Thebooooy
    @Thebooooy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    55:21
    At this part where he got to the shortstop, I braced myself for him to tear it apart...
    But what came next warmed my heart.

  • @FlipZFox
    @FlipZFox 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Personal idea, I believe that the *Sandman* should have some kind of partially blinding "trauma" effect, where your screen is blurry considering that your head definitely isn't going to take well to a baseball that has landed right onto your skull. Maybe add a bit of slight drunk-like aim effect or even just an inaccuracy debuff as well to fit well with the theme that you're dizzy as all hell but you're still able to fight back. I also personally think these ideas of mine should be put into test to be sure they are at least fun to fight against or isn't going to cause some kind of nauseous effect in real life just to be safe.

  • @Freesorin837
    @Freesorin837 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    As someone who uses Pretty Boy regularly, it’s really not useful for recovering health so much as it’s used to extend your life as you try to stay in the fight a little longer or try to get away.

    • @hypstersaurus6828
      @hypstersaurus6828 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      exactly, zesty really underestimates the power of this pistol. I used to play with mad milk or stock, but then i started using the pretty boy and god damn, to me it's literally a direct upgrade to stock. I've survived and won a lot of fights i wouldn't have otherwise thanks to that small health back and quick damage. People are sleeping on this weapon.

  • @catvs7529
    @catvs7529 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Honestly yeah, TH-cam back in it's glory days I know were definitely able to give a content creator a stable income.
    But that time is long since passed and now days if people want to make videos then that's all it is a hobby, which is pretty sad. But at the end of it I really appreciate your videos.

  • @narcant
    @narcant 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i have about 120 hours on scout and i never even considered using the Soda-Popper. thanks for educating us scout mains Zesty

  • @Nicky2414
    @Nicky2414 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    *When Zesty Jesus posts a video:*
    "Say goodbye to your brain cells, chucklhead!"

    • @josephg1125
      @josephg1125 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Exactly lol. Stock bat and basher on the same tier? Fan of war above basher, stock above pbpp LOL is the funniest one. And MM not in broken

  • @adorman
    @adorman 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    34:37 you can spam a,d,a,d... and you are not slowed.

  • @Iteration456-8_codename_goblin
    @Iteration456-8_codename_goblin 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Twitch did a fucky wucky but now zesty has posted based opinions, ebic

  • @delfinodolphinsquad910
    @delfinodolphinsquad910 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I feel like a measly 20 damage shouldn't be the amount to lose all your boost with the Baby's Face, it definitely needs the "lose boost on hit thing" but 20 damage is very low, especially with how hard it can fuck you over, I say anywhere between 50-100 damage to lose all boost should be it, that way you're not royally screwed from chip damage and stray shots. I don't think it would make it broken, but it'd make it less punishing for newer players too

  • @nugget0928
    @nugget0928 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    OH MY GOD IDEA. GIVE HEAVY THE SANDMAN AND GIVE SCOUT THE EVICTION NOTICE WITH THE MINIMUM HEALTH BEING 1-25 INSTEAD OF 100! IM A FUCKING GENIUS

  • @latocayito
    @latocayito 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I’m convinced the zesty man does that community online voice as a form of therapy with how much he does it lmao

  • @DavienKBowman
    @DavienKBowman 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    If zesty doesn’t do a tier list on the reskins, I’m unsubbing.

  • @TheSpoonman00
    @TheSpoonman00 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Pairing the Cleaver and Wrap Assassin with the BFB is legitimately fun. Even if you're moderately good at landing shots with either weapon, it's enough to get your BFB boost back up even if you get shot

  • @cannonfodder9248
    @cannonfodder9248 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    To buff baby face, remove the boost reduced on hit. You still cannot double jump and have the reduced clip size, which in my opinion would balance it out
    edit: zesty loves FaN I take back everything I said and I agree with him

    • @Dog-999i
      @Dog-999i 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I hate the boost lost on hit mechanic! It’s such lazy weapon design! I would take anything else like 50% clip size, less health, cannot double jump at all, marked for death when at full speed, etc.

    • @leonardo9259
      @leonardo9259 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Spineless
      But yeah, reducing the rate of boost lost would make it nice

  • @remuvs
    @remuvs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The thing with the Boston Basher, it's so redundant for the casual audience because in casual it's almost a given that the team is never on full health so you're basically always on the max build rate anyway.

    • @TheMasterd333
      @TheMasterd333 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      True but you can also boston basher jump so it still has a niche

  • @Christhewiztv
    @Christhewiztv 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I miss the old Sandman. It felt good and justified getting those skill shots.

  • @yeastmanjones
    @yeastmanjones 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    zesty is probably the most straightforward tf-tuber i seen in quite some time, and i’m here for it.

  • @karlbischof2807
    @karlbischof2807 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Finally someone says it, that stock scout is boring. Well i think he is fun in short bursts and i would definitely play scout more if he had more variety. When i do play scout its always unlockable weapons

  • @imfatkid420
    @imfatkid420 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    1:00:31 did you or any one else add this or update the wiki? Please do I have not played this game since I got it on the Orange Box and got all the achievements for me and my 2 of my friends I loved this game but I never had the money for a PC but I got one and I got TF2 but I don't know how to play PC games but I've been playing Xbox can I use my controller?

  • @zurielschubert9410
    @zurielschubert9410 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The complete disdain Zesty has for Comp Players fills me with joy and happiness while at the same time increasing my hate towards Comp Players for complaining about shit that's not broken in the casual setting.

  •  3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I once got killed by a ghibus wearing Scout.
    I died to his melee.
    I was on Soldier.
    It wasn't a random crit.
    And he was using the Candy Cane for melee.

  • @purplehaze2358
    @purplehaze2358 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The baby face’s blaster makes every damage source in the game a worse version of the Natasha because of a glitch that didn’t even exist. Easy D-tier at best.

  • @Pogi820.
    @Pogi820. 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi, thank you for recommending the baby face's blaster, it was actually really fun to use.
    From my short experience with it I learned that:
    (I'm probably unoriginal here but…)
    - The gun is best paired with the flying guillotine, since one hit with this gives you the full boost, which gives you the speed advantage from afar.
    - Even though you are nearly forces to stay on the ground, don't be afraid to waste your boost in order to dodge a rocket, if you already hit 1 or 2 shots, you can refill your boost with the finishing one. You can also simply use the high ground more often.
    - The boost can sometimes compensate for your risky double jump in long distance jumps where height doesn't matter much.
    - You better recycle boost rather than keep your one if you want to get more value, the boost makes you more flexible: you pick your fights, you run away to health packs much faster and the enemy has hard time tracking you down or shooting you before your first shot…
    Again, I really thank you for "opening my mind" and making me notice how fun scout's variety of weapons can be, this refers to the other tier lists as well.
    (What do you think? I will be happy to know :)

  • @ghostford4850
    @ghostford4850 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Kum

  • @MJamesRave
    @MJamesRave 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Genuinely my most looked forward to videos right now. I'm super burned out with university and this helps

  • @greseduppig2011
    @greseduppig2011 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    33:57 isn't slow negated by strafing?

  • @shayanmanteghi5662
    @shayanmanteghi5662 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    25:19 Intentionally or not, Zesty actually made a good Waluigi impersonation there!

  • @Petgirl_sophie
    @Petgirl_sophie 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Having used the pretty boys for almost all my hours on scout you’re completely correct, the health back is sub par but its nice to have a easy way to top your health back off after being chipped

  • @swagguy7515
    @swagguy7515 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    bad idea for sandman and Natasha fix:
    have stun reworked to slow down fire rate and reload speed
    fix slow so that strafing doesn't hard counter it

  • @garnetbezanson1404
    @garnetbezanson1404 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I find the Wrap Assasin is also good when paired with the Mad Milk. If you can hit a milked enemy with the bulb you get a nice little trickle of health that acts as a small damage buffer.

  • @e.g.8018
    @e.g.8018 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    1:29
    What if instead of stunning someone, it launched them back with a ton of knockback. What I'm thinking is if you fire this in a group, they will be launched out the group where you can DM them away from their teammates. It'll need a better downside, though.

  • @frontierdustice
    @frontierdustice 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    As a fellow FaN enjoyer, I resonate with Zesty. That knockback you take from firing the FaN in the air is just extra mobility if you know how to use it properly.
    Forget the Winger or the Atomizer, this thing can launch you further than the two of them combined.

  • @TheAaaaaaaaaad12
    @TheAaaaaaaaaad12 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I understand why they had to nerf the sandman, cause getting hit by a try hard lime-scout and being unable to move for seconds is honestly not a very fun play to go against at.
    If i have to bring a balance patch for the " current " sandman, is like 2 options.
    1st option:
    + Hitting an enemy with a ball gives scouts a boost speed " speed and duration is base by the travel of the ball "
    this gives the players the ability to catch up it's target and easily pick them off while also not rendering the opponent to fight completely
    2nd option:
    + Hitting an enemy with a ball tilt's their facing by a random angle " the further the ball travels the harder the tilt goes "
    This one gives the enemies at a disadvantage from the beginning, by messing up their view so they can't tell where the scout is gonna come , but at the same time can be easily recovered by simply moving their mouse. It also punishes hard-scoping snipers and forces them out from scoping.

  • @karlbischof2807
    @karlbischof2807 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The backscatter technically has 3 downsides:
    -minicrits only apply at close range
    -2 less clips(it says 34% less clip when it should say 33%)
    -minus 20% spread

  • @scouttengu
    @scouttengu 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I actually found one use for the sandman that it's actually pretty good at. Hitting a demo knight with the ball while they are mid charge will basically cancel the charge since it changes the charge speed to the speed of a heavy. Once they have no charge, they are basically a free kill.
    Possible rework idea for the sandman: the ball should have an extra effect on top of the slowdown such as making the person marked for death. The duration of them being marked for death depends on how far the ball has traveled.
    Remove the -health downside and replace it with something like reduced melee damage.
    This rework would make the sandman a weapon that is meant for making it easier to get picks off on enemy medics or scouts. Designed for hitting them with the ball then running in to finish them off with your primary weapon.

  • @thewitchishammered
    @thewitchishammered ปีที่แล้ว

    No one ever expects you to actually hit them with the basher when you whip it out. Makes the salt in deadchat so much more delicious.

  • @fadingpower
    @fadingpower 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey man, really enjoy these videos, been getting some amazing sleep while listening to the chill discussions. + algorithm juice.

  • @jacobdavidson9833
    @jacobdavidson9833 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Those Bionicles are quite possibly the coolest backdrop I've seen from any youtuber.

  • @derelictgasstation
    @derelictgasstation 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    another thing he probably didn't know when making this, the wrap assassins version of "moonball shots" makes the baubles guaranteed crit after being airborn for over a second doing more damage than the guillotine

  • @a_dead786
    @a_dead786 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    FINALLY!! someone else who loves the shortstop. I didn't like it when I first tried but eventually it just clicked and i started doing REALLY GOOD with it.

  • @campellodasilva
    @campellodasilva 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for the video, Zesty (and editor)

  • @skippingstep1515
    @skippingstep1515 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    One thing worth mentioning is how great the Wrap Assassin and the Guillotine pair with the Baby Face, as the initial damage of the cleaver and ornament, along with the bleed damage afterwards, counts as boost. A successful cleaver and full bleed out equal 90% of your boost.

  • @murasakidevil
    @murasakidevil 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Playing perfectly with the soda popper is a huge dopamine rush. Activating hype mode and dodging all the spam for 15 or so seconds before dying horriblu to a natasha heavy is my favorite moment as a scout main

  • @succd.a.n.k9114
    @succd.a.n.k9114 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    >36:40
    should have used an edit of scout holding the bonk instead.
    still made me chuckle though