Scary kayak sailing in 40mph winds, I went for a LONG swim!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2022
- In this video I give a detailed rundown of the events that led to a near disaster on the water while testing the our new kayak sailing system. Lots of great lessons here for all sea kayakers, skin on frame kayakers, and kayak sailors.
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It's so helpful when good paddlers are so transparent about their swims. Thank you for sharing your experience.
As a SAR/EMS person, I have to applaud your discussion and intro monologue.
Thank you for the approach you took in the discussion and video
I love your honesty! Need more humans like you.
Sometimes I think we ONLY learn from OUR mistakes. Thanks for extracting every bit of knowledge from mistakes made and cautions dismissed. I learn from listening to your thought process (before and after the experience). You are a great teacher.
Thanks John, are you still paddling that boat?
@@capefalconkayak I sure am. I get my LPB out on Whitehall reservoir 3-4 times per week (May-early November)… I do about 5 miles in 1 hour (I’ve slowed down since my initial 6 miles in 1h0m on the Hudson), but the shallow lakes of Massachusetts are just slower than the very dynamic Hudson River. My LPB is in its 13th season. I added a second coat of PU a few years ago. I live a mile from the lake (3 from the boat ramp) and there are 3-4 other lakes within a few miles. Been retired for almost 9 years and have 2 grandsons, most frequent comments about the boat are “that really moves” … “wow your fast”. And I still explain the construction and your workshop almost once a week. That’s why I call it my “ice breaker”.
Glad you're Safe! 🦺
I learned decades ago with canoes, kayak and even a large 17 foot rowing wherry that could take multiple passengers; you only have the power of a single person and the wind is a heck of a lot stronger. So much stronger that you should expect to be blown downwind to the shore and it doesn't matter how hard you can pull or paddle.
Thanks for sharing this...That was way more dangerous in your condition than I think many of your viewers understand...I commend you for not stopping in this craft and continuing to share what works and what does not...
Thank you for sharing your experience with this! I'm glad you're alright!
Thank you for sharing this. I’m looking at the possibility of adding a sail rig to my touring boat. This provides a lot of details that most sail manufacturers aren’t really talking about. I really appreciate this!
Thanks for all those lessons learned. This is also good information for those of us who prefer solo kayaking.
Fascinating to watch the process. Glad you made it out ok.
As a water person and sailor for decades I totally understand the fun time to be had. Im glad it worked out as you are safe...thats most important. But since you did have some reservations on conditions when you were at the launch and trying new rigging you might have waited for more favorable winds. The video is excellent. It's wonderful how you explain the things that worked, things you messed up on and the I think Ill do this next time. Windy day for sure!!!! While you were explaining the kayak being pushed by the wind when trying to roll up (sail in water) and use the other side of the boat, if the waves are of a decent size like in the video you can also time the swell to help roll the boat up. That sure looked like a fun day otherwise.....sometimes you JUST GET WET.
Thanks for sharing, it was really interesting to see how you managed in your circumstances and all your considerations retrospectively. So much can be learnt from this. Awesome stuff!
Thanks for sharing how things can go wrong. This very valuable.
Great video - just back from a surfski trip in 40mph winds that also went wrong and thanks for sharing your experience.
You had an awesome time by the looks of it! Very skill full, paddle safe!!
Thanks for sharing this adventure. Used to see + 40 knots at the gorge and at that level wind would start picking up board and sail and flipping it down wind faster than I could swim. Very impressed with your sail setup and skills. What a hoot.
Thanks Brian lots to reflect on there
Mistakes make great entertainment, being a sailor it's interestingto see a sail in action on a kayak, not that you make uninteresting videos. I'm not a kayaker but I love your work, and I'd love to make one of your designs. glad you're OK.
Regards from Scotland, David
thank you for sharing this i still consider myself new to kayaking even though I've been doing it for a while now and this helps with preparing when out on rough condition, wich i havent been in yet.. thank you.. stay safe
Good analyses. If you havent solved trouble: you might test another/thicker/harder string at the cleat or a mini "curry-cleat" with ring. Fix end of rope with aft-knot. Add list of mistakes! Tow-belt great idea! Rolling Bernie*Danube/Vienna
What about using cam cleats instead of clam cleats?
thanks for posting this. i've watched tons of your vids and i learned a lot from this one. plans for my next trip are now being adjusted to include this new knowledge.
I’m hoping to get out in the exact same conditions and duplicate the incident and then show how rolling up on the Windward side would change things and also how to do a self rescue in these conditions.
Excellent !
Great report. Love it. Nearly nuclear winds at the gorge. Relax and try again with same conditions.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you!
I really loved this! This is one of the best kayak videos I’ve seen. Very useful and helpful!
I wanted to make a suggestion to check out the technique of using a paddle float and heel hook rescue. Heel hook is by far the fastest way I’ve personally managed to get back into my boat.
You might find it a bit easier to get into your boat and less scary.
I bought my paddle float on Amazon for 37$, it was just like the Level six but no mark up or brand stamp. It’s a great addition for peace of mind. And just folds up and lashes to your kayak deck easily.
This might seem a bit extreme but I liken you to John Glenn, in that you are executing a well- thought-out test plan with the risk posture of a bold engineer and the adroitness of a brilliant seaman. We didn't get where we are by following timid leaders. Lead on bold human.
I have a wonderful tiny pack canoe made by op. When getting it from the car to the water in the hood river area, there are days when it catches enough wind to almost pick me up off the ground. When wind report says 20mph here, it kinda means 10-30
Really interesting video!!!
Great to see this kind of on the water test and also real life emergency management!
What are your opinions on the Kokatat Idol drysuit? This 2 in 1 design seems very convenient.
That's hard core!
That was scary!
Brian, another fantastic vid... As I was watching and you were explaining the difficulties of sailing in high winds, I thought, "Hmmm, kitesurfers look for highwinds, would that even be a possible alternative to a sail?" A friend of mine uses one with a double occupancy canoe, one kiting, one steering...
A four-line kite might be doable in a tandem kayak but solo you are pretty restricted to a single line parifoil. I’ve done a lot of that over the years but it’s a difficult thing to use practically because it takes so much time to get up into the sky and it’s very hard to get it out of the sky so any starting and stopping decisions need to be made miles in advance. It’s also somewhat limited on the angles to the wind. And only works in winds over 15 mph and less than 25
Hmm ... lucky guy. You might have been stuck in Portland traffic. If you paddle below the dam you can play in wind, waves, cold water AND big current. When I get the $$$, I'll be getting back to you about a skin on frame canoe. Can't wait. Thank you for the video (2x). It took me back to "sailing" (capcizing) a canoe out of the Cascade Locks when I was a kid.
Glad you’re safe. Everyone has their own safety calculus.
I like the phrase ‘a pretty miserable extraction’….I guess that was putting it mildly. Glad you are ok and appreciate you posting this….sadly it has put me off getting a sail forever :-)
From a safety perspective There’s nothing about a sail that isn’t exactly the same as normal kayaking. I personally think kayak sailing is safer than regular kayaking because people who go out sailing take rescue skills so much more seriously than ordinary kayakers that can end up in the same conditions.
Oh No! Please sail someday. What Brian was showing was soooo much more than what you might or I might set up for. I liken it to " no I will never drive a car because I saw an Indy 500 race and I couldn't do that". Set up for your conditions/comfort level and comfortably explore your envelope. Amazing joy is found in the adventure: claim your share.
@@paulskaar8556 I guess you have a point :-) I keep an eye on apolloduck for sailing kayaks/canoes but so far nothing within my budget. I also think I would miss some of the caves and narrow channels I can explore with the sea kayak. Happy sailing!
If one is going to sail in these conditions, a rig that allows you to adjust the rake of the mast would be useful. First, the center of pressure can be moved aft by increasing the rake and if constructed appropriately, the mast and sail can be dropped back on deck if needed for stowage or in a difficult righting situation. Just some thought and good video.
Would it be beneficial to have the ability to move the sail rig fore and aft while testing the rig possibly with multiple mast step positions?Also does the kayakers weight play a role in where the rig position should be?
you comment about break apart paddles and not being able to put them togterh was why , in my forst ever rolling class, i set the goal of "grab a half paddle from the front deck and roll up"... which i managed at thend of the 6 week class.
admittedly.. it was NOT in extreme conditions... and a sail up aty rthe same time - could you design it as quick release so the sail collapses easily if you capsize - we sdo that in sailing - releaing all the sails so they dont hold energy during the roll back up
Im now focusing more into greenland roll style where the paddle is not the power for the rol.. body movement dfoes that - and the paddle is less influential (think norsaq rolls) - so a half paddle should be plenty!
This sure seams like pushing the limits of you and the boat, glad you survived. Have you considered some sort of vang for the sail rig? might make raising the sail more complicated, but it would help prevent death rolls
I’ve got my sheet set up so it has a pretty strong Vang action something like this only happens when you’re just way outside of recommended conditions. I always try to minimize strings and complexity in kayaks. Although it isn’t terribly hard to set one up I just haven’t needed it.
Great video Brian. Do you grab the end of the upside down kayak and lift to empty most of the water out before turning the kayak over ? Good on ya.
That doesn’t really work in a self rescue scenario. But I do turn the boat on its side to get some of the water out.
@@capefalconkayak Also probably doesn't work well in a boat without bulkheads
As a dinghy sailor, what you're calling a clam cleat, I call a jam cleat - cam cleats have cams that move to accept and lock down on the line, and are better with loads. Jam cleats are used more for rigging adjustments like outhaul
Yeah the terminology is a little annoying and varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. What you’re calling a jam cleat Ronstan calls a V cleat and Clamcleat calls a clamcleat and a true jam cleat is completely different than either of those things. Generally in kayak sailing we use some variation on these little guys because they are compact and work well. And even the nylon ones with a fairleaded won’t slip until you hit around 60 mph of wind speed which isn’t really sailable conditions. Because the sails are only .7 - 1.3 Square meters they can handle the forces.
Do you have a video covering sea socks?
You can find one in the first section of our Free skin on frame kayak prep course. I personally hate the things but times like this it might be nice to have.
Also maybe you need some sort of kicker/vang to stop the boom riding up like that.
Vangs are possible but it’s usually just complexity I don’t bother with because in any normal wind situation the sheet has enough vang effect.
@@capefalconkayak I did notice that the sheet position gave some effect.
@@capefalconkayak did my other reply get removed because of the link? Hopefully you saw it about the k style clam cleats.
@@DansKoiPond I never saw the other reply?
@@capefalconkayak don't want to put another link. Search for 'barton k cam cleat' all the manufacturers do that style. I suggest it for your sheet jumping out issue. They also do base plates that hold the rope in the right place. Don't like the other style as they always slip. The other suggestion I had was a mast head float. Windy weather in the UK is sometimes called milk bottle weather because the dinghy sailors tie a plastic milk bottle to the top of the mast. It would stop it inverting and in a reasonable wind angling the mast to the wind would allow the sail to lift, righting it.
I sailed my kayak today and capsized. the winds were 30 plus. I had to be rescued. The winds and waves were too much for re-entry. The water was very cold.
The poison oak part was what made me cringe, although it's ivy for me. I hate that stuff!
I'm in Olympia WA. Where do I go to get a Reed custom sea sock? Thanks
You can send them the dimensions of your cockpit but if it’s one of my boats they actually have all of my custom templates on file. I can give you the reference numbers if you need.
@@capefalconkayak I have a blazing Aspen wooden kayak not skin on frame. With rear bulkhead but no front bulkhead.
😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
Are kayaks and canoes the only boats you can build using skin-on-frame? I'd love to build something along the lines of a rowing boat.
Rowboats are totally doable although it’s a bit more challenging, because the ideal cross section shape of a rowboat is not a fair curve so you end up making individual forms for laminated ribs, which is a lot of work. I’ve made some gorgeous Adirondack Guide boats this way, but it doesn’t go together as easy as my steam bent system. You can get about 85% of that performance for about 35% of the work if you just build a larger canoe and put oars on it. I actually have a rowing system for my canoes that you can see in some of the other videos here.
@@capefalconkayak thank you! I've been trying to find more information about this style of building and not having much luck. Your channel is probably in the top 3 on TH-cam.
Why dont you use respectabele side fins ?
I’m not sure I understand what you mean?
Сколько стоят ваши каяки?
Suggest inflatable sponsons about a meter long , lashed along side the cockpit
A simply stopper knot would have solve the slip problem.
Yeah that’s generally how I do it with the closed cleats but the sheet cleat in this case was an open clam cleat so a knot wouldn’t change anything
Surely, if you're paddling solo, in wind, you must already be tethered to you boat *before* you flip? SUP paddlers do it, why not kayakers? Moulton Avery promotes the idea.
Generally speaking kayakers don’t tie themselves to kayaks because it creates an entanglement hazard during a wet exit. It’s also incredibly dangerous in the surf zone. That said there are certain situations in which I do it, mostly while flying a kite.
Brian, do you ever think about the possibility that someone may die from using one of your kayaks? Would you feel responsibility about that at all?
I think about it the same way as any kayak manufacturer. I’m obsessed with safety and I’ve done more than anyone else in the world to make safer skin boats and to promote using them safely so I will definitely feel terrible if something like that happens but I wouldn’t feel responsible.
Is a kayak designed to sail I don't think so so you pretty much ask for what you got
People have been using sails on kayaks for decades and it’s a great tool when used within the limits of the conditions the gear and the paddler. In this case I was intentionally forcing a situation like this because as a designer I need to see where the actual failure points in the system are. I’m not at all unhappy with what happened.
Well, the constant intensive talk is getting a bit tiring .. how about you first show the whole story and then explain what happened and why .. otherwise 👍
I frontload the caveats and explanations because if you do it the other way around people don’t actually watch the rest of the video and then I just end up with dozens and dozens of comments of people telling me what I did wrong and how stupid I was. That’s actually a good thing if you’re trying to be a professional TH-camr because it drives view count, but I’m just trying to educate people so that doesn’t really matter to me. A couple minute introduction and then an explanation of how I set up my kayak for conditions and then the play-by-play of the incident followed by a wrap up works well for me, but if it doesn’t work for you there’s always the fast-forward button.
@@capefalconkayak you just keep doing it the way your doing it......it works for me.
He is an amazing teacher. Very knowledgeable, lucid, organized and thoughtful. He freely shares information with humility. I for one, appreciate his thoroughness.
way oll this asplane ,better show and not oll this speak
I’m not here to entertain people or to get a bunch of views. I’m here to educate. which parts of what I said do you think are unimportant?.
And now, please repeat the same again in German.
Why were you even sailing with such a tippy/wobbly boat at 8 Bft (= gale)?
Besides, the sail was hoisted far too high above the boat. (see the topic of centre of effort)
Comb clamps are also more than conceivably unsuitable for sailing with an unstable kayak in such wind conditions. It is better to lead the sheet loosely out of the hand so to be able to react quickly (e.g. to sheet out, to ease the sheets, to slack).
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Original text:
Und, jetzt das Ganze bitte nochmals auf Deutsch.
Warum segelten Sie denn überhaupt mit so einem kippeligen Boot bei 8 Bft (= stürm. Wind)?
Dazu war das Segel doch außerdem viel zu hoch über dem Boot gehißt. (siehe Thema Segeldruckpunkt)
Auch sind Kammklemmen zum Segeln mit einem instabilen Kajak bei solchen Windverhältnissen mehr als denkbar ungeeignet. Das Schot sollte dabei besser lose aus der Hand geführt werden, um blitzschnell reagieren (z.B. mittels fieren) zu können.