See, I'm still operating under the idea that they are Ozma's daughters. At least their souls if not their minds. Like they inherited Ozma's reincarnation ability, but not as fully. The story is likely just a story, probably one Ozma made up.
@@SapphWolf I actually made another comment earlier about expanding in the idea of the maidens paralleling then daughters, but I’m at work right now and can’t flesh out that post until I get home. If you’re interested in reading my ramblings, you should check back in a couple of hours~
@@SapphWolf Twisted idea, what if they did reincarnate with their minds but didn't want to see the families of their reincarnated form upset with them leaving, giving themselves new lives without fear of their real mother.
To me the maidens always seemed weird because they all seemed to have the same seasonal powers. What was the point on distinguishing them through seasons if they are literally all the same.
Yeah that's like if they hyped up the Avatar as being the only person in the world capable of bending all 4 elements but every bender in the show could bend the 4 elements.
I feel like they only labeled them with seasons to distinguish who unlocks which relic/vault. But then again if that was the intent they should've just named them the Choice Maiden, the Knowledge Maiden, etc..
yeah the whole thing seems very flawed and confusing. like what's the difference between the maidens besides opening a specific vault? I thought by that episode with Amber using the maiden's powers that they all had specific powers and Fall's was weather powers. but that went out the window the minute Cinder started blasting fire everywhere!
The Maidens are literally smash bros Echo fighters of each other. I never got why the Maidens didn't have a unique superpower based on their titles. Like Winter is the Maiden of Creation, maybe some dust creation would be neat. Give the Summer Maiden a fucking Hakai, hell even Pokémon regional variants are more unique than these guys!
@@kupaakaleo137 but like... Cinder imbues her outfit with fire dust, alongside it being actual magic... she may have the power to control the winds like Fall, but it’s still pure magic
After the Salem/Osma backstory is revealed, MY HEADCANNON, is that the four maiden are actually Salem's and Osma's four daughters. They have inherited their parents' magic, and Osma's ability to reincarnate. Due to dying too young, they never developed a will or a personality of their own to be able to communicate with their 'host'. With each and every reincarnation their personalities fade away and are suppressed by the more powerful hosts, until they are nothing more than power cores without personality operating on pure instinct ingrained in their souls. They instinctively seek out women hosts (cause they're girls, and have always perceived themselves as such), who are pure of heart... (because that trait is ingrained in children). They cannot aid their host with knowledge or guidance, because they never had any to begin with. This is why every maiden has to learn their powers from scratch. And since the kids have unbidden potential for magic, just like their parents, what they specialize in depends entirely on the host's skills and preferences. The legend of the four seasons is just that... a legend born out of the deeds done by those carrying their powers over the centuries.
This is an amazing theory and will be interesting because penny is now a maiden will ozpin see penny as his kid and it will make sense why cinder hates ozpin cause that’s her dad who is against her and her mom I doub the writers will do this cause u know
@@jammiebirds same. 4 has always been an important number for the show (4 CCT towers, 4 kingdoms, 4 relics, 4 maidens, teams of 4, etc). Despite RWBY's limited budget and utilitarian nature, they bothered with creating four character models instead of just one or two.
Yea if you rewatch it almost exactly matches the maiden story too, the eldest winter maiden the tallest, and ozma’s tallest daughter had a blue dress and white hair. Aswell as the spring maiden in the remnants story was the shortest of the maiden’s and was green: coincidentally in Osma’s backstory there smallest of the 4 daughters wore a green dress. Edit: ages were wrong point out by Ice Age, corrected it to only say the part that was true to the remnants story and ozma’s backstory which was height.
@@megly146 What even is water at the point? Is it wet or is it even real? Will Cinder ever have anything Interesting to say or will she fake out die again? The world may never know
The maidens sound like an idea the writers had and monty said: maidens don’t follow the rule of cool. I also feel this happened with the two brothers creation. Trashed ideas by monty that they brought but because the writers thought they were cool while Monty was like: eh, they’re not
@@bryana.escaleralopez Hard to say. Some reports say Monty was mostly hands-off and just let Miles and Kerry do their thing, but it's also been said that he meddled a bit with who/what showed up.
I legit got teary eyed at the part w/ Freia being a writer who never got to finish her work and Penny being a heavily invested fan. 😭 that’s such a great idea, esp as it feeds into the history of Atlas In suppressing creative ideas And exploration of art like they did during the Great War. 🦄🏳️🌈
The statement of Relics being more important then the maidens rings so true. In the series, Maidens are treated not as ultimate badasses who wield legit magic but mere keys to unlock potential doomsday puzzle pieces.
@@derrickdaniels3955 Ya, and I as well as others are saying they're poorly written if that's all they are. They're not even really representations of the four seasons or individualistic as their name sakes would imply, or that they're really "special" in terms of power or presence as their origins imply, given how there's been little to no differentiation between dust, semblance and the supposed "actual magic" the four maidens can use, and how dispite Cinder or even the previous Fall Maiden having the "amazing power of magic" were beaten, rather easily in some cases, by normal people/huntsman. They're really just four keys that just happen to be power humans that unlock specific locks because they were supposed to individualized but the weren't written as such. Given what the Maidens were written as and how they're actually written, it comes off as poor because they obviously could have been do much more when they are so much less. Legit, it's to the point where actual keys could have replaced the four maidens and there would have been little difference storywise.
@@derrickdaniels3955 I think one of the annoying aspects of the Maiden powers is that their magic is functionally indistinguishable from Semblances. The entire concept of magic in the show is confusing as hell. We've got a girl with flower-themed superspeed, someone that can control ice and summon monsters, someone who can absorb and redirect lightning, yet somehow Qrow and Raven being able to turn into birds is a shocking twist reveal and the Maidens are special............why? People want their power for some reason? For fuck's sake Glynda is practically telekinetic but I'm supposed to be awed because a lady can shoot fire?
First time we see an all powerful maiden, she gets her ass kicked. It was kind of disappointing considering OZ hyped up the maidens the episode before.
To be fair, Glynda made it VERY clear in that same episode that, even with all the maidens' power, they were still consistently targeted to the point that people with less-than-noble intentions would get ahold of their powers with frightening success.
I feel like this could have been remedied by asserting that this particular maiden was inexperienced or had very little control, which would still make the power itself formidable while avoiding cheapening it with the exchange. This might have also played to the lore, and given evidence of the hunting of the maidens.
I don’t know what your talking about but the first time we saw an ALL POWERFUL maiden, who was fully realized, was Frieda. Frieda didn’t even give Cinder the CHANCE to touch her, so I ask, what are you talking about? Raven? Because she isn’t an all powerful maiden. Is she strong? Very. But so is cinder. You could reason they’ve had their powers (or part of them in Cinder’s case) for a similar amount of time, which would make sense as to why their fight was so close. Or are you talking about Amber? Because she was a new maiden when she was surprise attacked by THREE professional killers in the middle of nowhere.
The maiden power transversal kinda reminds me of the lantern Corps from DC comics like when the original wearer of the ring dies, the lantern's ring goes off to find whoever is worthy, except the maiden are conceptually weaker by theme and purpose. Each lantern represents something, Red (rage), Orange (greed), Black (death), White (life), Indigo (compassion), Blue (hope), Violet (love), Yellow (fear), and green (will power). Which speaks for the character and what they're personalities are like, but for the maidens the only thing that matters is what gender and age you are. It would have been more interesting if each maiden personality represent the season their supposedly based around.
Ikr it would be nice if the maidens had individual powers as they did in the side story of the original maidens. Fire,Earth,Water and Air. Maybe similar ideals from avatar where Summer(fire) Finds power and aggression as the best while Winter(water) thinks change whether its the environment or yourself to be the best. Fall(air) thinking freedom is the best and spring (Earth) thinking stability is the best. When I say the best I mean in terms of Ideals and beliefs.
@@swagachugaming7677 And it be interesting if penny got the spring since in the WOR we saw her use plant manipulation or at least something to that variety, it would have been a clever nod To her origins. But they quickly dropped that idea and settled with the avatar mix with storm from the x men. And they're not even that special considering the fact that dust & semblances are a thing, Weiss is particularly a maiden if she has the right amount dust at her disposal.
I know right? Imagine if the maiden powers were drawn to those whose personalities matched the nature of the seasons. And that once you became a maiden those traits would get amplified. It would be interesting to see a winter maiden struggle to be cool and collected, soft-spoken and patient rather than cold and apathetic, silent and listless. You could even have these attitudes play into certain traits that aren't emotional per say, but more like habits. Maybe spring maidens tend to be mothers who pass the Maidenhood Matrilinealy. Maybe summer maidens tend to fall in and out of love quickly and deeply due to them being passionate but fickle, never really settling down. And sometimes having children, but only on accident. Fall maidens could have stable relationships but not want any kids. Preferring to take on apprentices and watch the fruits of their labor pay off as the apprentice becomes the master and succesor (kinda tying into fall being start of school term, though admittedly different parts of the world start school during seasons other than fall). And winter maidens could have a tendency to be reserved, struggling to show warmth and affection, and also be celibate. This way the maidens could represent their seasons, and also different approaches to womanhood. Sure spring would be your stereotypical nuclear family, but even then it would be a matriarchy. Summer would basically go through lovers like candy and never intentionally have kids. Fall would have good relationships but show that even more grounded, warm women don't necessarily want kids. And winter could represent how some women don't even want a partner or sex in general, neither needing love nor lust. And again, no kids. Also, this would tie into how the day/night cycles are in seasons. Spring and fall have almost equal time between day and night, with the spring and fall equinox being perfectly equal. And the spring and fall maidens tend to pass down their maiden powers, through springs children or falls students. And summer and winter have increasingly skewed day/night times with the summer and winter solstice being the longest/shortest days of the year respectively. And sure enough, both summer and winter maidens are chosen solely by the power rather than being influenced by the previous holder.
Real Talk: Monty just wanted to make a fun action anime style cartoon that introduced and used ideas as he came up with them in a way that would allow it to continue as he liked...and the way Miles and Kerry run the show it's kind of just a generic fantasy hollywood ass macguffin story where elements exist to try and fill out the world, whether they are contradictory or not, and then don't think about the wider implications because they also want to push the story without a specific ending in mind...yet following the beats of a story that NEEDS and has a planned Ending when it very clearly doesn't.
Despite Monty not really being a writer or shakespear by any means. He at least knows alot on how to create a world and amazingly fun characters. I feel like he was a better editor of the writing then an actual writer. Mile's and Kerry's thing is they took everything Monty put so much heart into and just change yeet alot of great and interesting ideas and throw them out the window. Making a half baked and souless world and story with barely much explanaition and plot holes. Like there's alot of pontential that they just said screw it just put something and bam sell.
@@ultraoverloadx9333 Wrong Monty literally told miles and kerry to watch specific anime to take plot ideas and understanding from them and he never had any issue with how they wrote or did the job he would constantly introduce new characters he designed and left it to Miles and Kerry to give them character and or write them up and he also left them to create and or fill in the main story, only having come up with broad concepts that he left to others to fulfill because he either couldn’t do it himself or was too busy with the animation to bother with it.
@@ultraoverloadx9333 Monty never wrote a story before, he only wanted to do action scenes. Miles and the other writter used to be responsable for connecting the action scenes Month created in a coeherent story, but no one truly planed the story while writting.
@@enzojose4001 That first part I know but he just seemed like from what I heard he did gave some suggestions to the writers on his vision. Which is what I mean by editor not that he edits the writing or anything.
When the maiden powers were first introduced, I’d thought we’d get to see team rwby slowly collect them over time. Four seasonal/elemental powers for four different girls, and all that. It would have been fun to see the adventures team rwby would have to go on in order to get them, with lots of room for character growth and action. Watching them struggle with the near godly power they now have and the implications of that. Say, Ruby finally gets the fall powers back from Cinder (is dying involved? I don’t know, maybe rework the power transferral too) and now Ruby has the powers that she saw Pyrrha *die* from and get nightmares over it and is too scared to use the fall powers because she might hurt someone she cares about. I don’t know, I was hoping for more, ya know
I wrote a comment detailing my personal interpretations of what the Maidens’ personalities should be like. If you’d let me, may I expand on this idea? Weiss should definitely become the next Winter Maiden, not Penny. While Penny is a lovely character and I like her, she doesn’t feel... _right?_ Like, I think Weiss’ personality is more akin to what people associate with the winter season than Penny’s. She can be cold and hard to break through to sometimes, but there’s a hidden beauty under her icy exterior. She has her own unique warmth, despite her appearance. Yang should be Summer. In my comment, I mentioned how Summer could be a hotheaded and stubborn person, often wanting to do her own thing and shirking her Maiden responsibilities that were dumped on her against her will. This I feel corresponds with Yang. She can be flighty and hotheaded (for flip’s sake her Semblance LITERALLY sets her head on fire), and the responsibility of looking after Ruby was dumped on her much like how the Summer Maiden’s powers are just dumped on it’s new chosen. It would be cool to see her connect with the Summer Maiden, and learn that while fate can be a b***h sometimes you have to move on and keep going. Ruby would be fitting for Spring. The Spring Maiden idea I had takes inspiration from Demeter from Greek Mythology. She represents life and the love and respect for it. Ruby deeply cares about those around her and tries to preserve their lives as much as she can. It would be nice to see her get mentoring from Spring about her Silver Eyes and how it’s the physical manifestation of the passion she feels for those around her. Finally we have Blake. For my version of Cinder I had her inherit the Fall Maiden’s ability to cause everything living thing she touches to wither and die, but she wanted to use it for good. However, she was incapable of doing so, as is the finite nature of Autumn. She was exiled, burned with a mark on her eye to show her status as a monster. That’s why she’s so cold and spiteful: her soul grew colder with each night she spent roaming Remnant alone. Fall is often misunderstood: seen as the season of endings and never for the beauty it holds. This I feel could work with Blake: a Faunus, forever shunned by the world around her for what she is on the outside and not what’s on the inside. A kind and gentle soul, forever perceived as a monster with no heart. When she inherits the Fall Maiden’s ability, she panics. She worries she will turn out like Cinder did. However, she channels that fear. She decides rather than fighting her new destiny, she should try and cooperate with the new and drastic change. Blake learns to activate and deactivate her Maiden ability, as she embraced the change that is synonymous with her season.
While it is quite an engrossing pitch for the story, I'm fine with team RWBY not becoming the maidens. I'd like a story that's shifts the main protagonist focus not to the chosen one, but to the protectors of said chosen ones.
Yknow, the "all the maidens have the same powers" thing always really gets me, personally. It falls into "what do the maidens represent", but like, what was even the POINT of the seasonal theming if you're not gonna do anything with it? Especially since part of Salem's plan seems to be shoving all the maiden powers into Cinder. Like, to what end? To unlock the relics?? She doesn't need to stuff Cinder with maiden powers to do that. Do maiden powers stack? They don't seem to be stackable. It would make more sense each maiden power was unique with no overlap- maybe have each one represent a single element, or aspect of magic- and Salem was planning on turning Cinder into the ubermaiden with All The Powers. As it stands, there's no reason for them to be seasons at all- aside from the fact that there are four seasons and four maidens.
They could do more w/ the maidens. I just see it as "Aren't the maiden's just 4 women who can use magic?", They seem fairly basic due to the fact that it's just 4 People who have the same skill that used to be common before the gods cleared the board. Salem already had magic and is fully capable of using it if I'm not mistaken? I feel the maiden's are just meant to be a stronger force against salem.
Good points, both of you! Really makes Salem all the more scary imo. Though shed be way more than 4 times as strong cuz Oz kept a lot of magic if you think about it (the vaults, cane and stuff)
@@ravenfox247 Salem in a league of her own when it comes to a fight, there is nobody on remnent who can challenge her. Maybe Ruby's eyes will have an affect , but it won't destroy an immortal being.
@@donone352 I wasn't saying she was a maiden, sorry if i didn't make that clear. I was just commenting on how unremarkable the maiden's are as a whole. I mean even w/ full power Ozma couldn't hold a candle to salem's magical powers.
Cinder Fall holding Fall Maiden powers connected to relic of choice. She can develop as fully realised maiden and obtain that crown, instead she felt insecure hunting for more maiden powers 😭
@@scarletrose8766 Yeah I mean the name makes sense for fall powers but for some reason I think the fire powers just confused me XD Cause in summer its hot and all so fire would make sense. Idk XD
@@scarletrose8766 yeah tbh I actually dont really care that much since I dont really watch rwby anymore after everything that happend. I just try to catch up a little from time to time to see how the show is going now.
Imagine, just imagine, if before Cinder kills Pyrrha, the Fall Maiden powers that were stolen transfer to Pyrrha in that moment because of her struggle with Choice and her eventual Choice to fight a hopeless battle in the hopes that her sacrifice would mean something. Cinder loses the power she so desperately coveted because her Choices were shallow, short-sighted, and derivative while Pyrrha's Choice was noble and individualistic. Imagine, just imagine, if Raven received the powers, not because she also lowkey highkey stole them, but because the powers resonated with her resolve to not take any information she receives at face value. For her drive to seek out the Knowledge of the world and the puppeteers pulling strings from behind the scenes. Since the former Spring Maiden, who did not the powers in the first place, lost touch with her desire for knowledge, escaped her duties, and tunneled herself further into ignorance, the moment she comes across Raven, the powers spring forth (pun intended) from her body and transfer to Raven, because her desire for Knowledge was stronger. Not only would that scenario make Raven's schpeel to Yang about questioning what people tell her less of a monotonous monologue by a parent lecturing a child about shit the child already knows, but by making the transfer of powers spontaneous instead of intentional on Raven's part, it gives her character depth and the choices she makes in the story more practicality. Imagine, just imagine, if the plan to launch Amity Colloseum into the atmosphere as a communication satellite was PENNY'S idea, not Pietro's or Ironwood's, PENNY'S. The Creation of someone else exploring what it means to be human while everyone else helps her realize her ambition of Creating something that will help people across Remnant. Her display of ingenuity, self-awareness, compassion, and Creativity is what causes the powers to become hers in the season finale. Little plot changes here and there could've been all the difference in giving the Maidens more agency to the story and overall significance thematically.
That's so well put together it's almost maddening it's not canon. I also like to think that part of Raven's sorry should be that she has all the knowledge about Salem/Oz/the relics, which is what informs her choice to abandon it all. It'd work great with the buildup in v6 about Oz keeping secrets; he kept things from STRQ too, and Raven learning the truth (through the first question) leads to her decision to leave Oz/her team.
My main problem with the the Maidens is something that actually ties into another fundamental flaw that RWBY has had since the first season:It does a very poor job at explaining the limitations/rules/nuances of Dust,Aura,and Semblances(and when it does,it gets retconned.) and because of that,it has knockoff effects when Magic is introduced. When the Maidens come into the picture,the show obviously wants us to see Maidens as this powerful,mysterious,OOC(out-of-context) force that flips the established rules on it's head. The only problem with that? By the time the concept of Maidens is introduced,the show has done such a shit job at establishing the magic systems it had to begin with that there's no real distinction between Dust/Aura/Semblances. Because the show lacked solid baseline from which deviations could be made the purpose of the Maidens is muddled instantly. At this point,we've seen so many Semblances do so many things,that when it's revealed that Maidens have elemental control,it comes off as not only underwhelming,but it confused people into wondering what the Maidens were actually about. Can anyone honestly tell me that what we see the Maidens do is more esoteric than what we've seen out of Semblances? Weiss's allows her to speed up time,slow it down,and buff others. It's a mini magic system in and of itself. And maybe Weiss's is a weird case,but Ruby can turn into rose petals on command, and Blake can turn into afterimages. And on the villain side,Emerald can straight up do illusions and Merc's father can fucking steal a Semblance permanently. I think something has gone wrong if people thought at first that Qrow's Semblance was him shifting into a bird, rather than the bad luck And the writers had to confirm that the later was the case. It also doesn't help that what little narrative purpose the Maidens had to begin with(being a symbol of the Ancient past) was taken when the Relics entered the picture.
I'd actually argue it's not that they didn't define the powers well enough and more that the maidens aren't powerful enough given their description. The other power sources are actually pretty well defined. Dust, elemental energy in crystal or powder form. When activated it produces that element and can be manipulated to an extent by human will. Aura: The protective life energy created by a soul. Once unlocked it automatically protects the person from harm until the energy runs out. It can be used activate dust and power semblances. Semblance: a single magic power unique to the user. (Usually) It's named as such because it is a semblance of the original magic power people once wielded. The Maidens, in contrast, are supposed to have true magic power, which should be basically the power to do anything a semblance can do. They should practically be gods. Beyond commanding the elements they should be teleporting wherever they want, leaving after images all over the place, and opening up portals and turning into different animals. They should only be limited by their imaginations. That would fit with how they are described. Course, if they went this route then they could never give any of the main cast (including major side characters like Cinder and Penny) these powers because then almost nothing could stop them save maybe the Silver Eyes.
This is also one of the very few problems I have withthe show. Weiss' glyphs enable her to utilize dust into versatile forms. Shoot fireballs, icicles, summon giant chunks of ice from the ground, conjure firewalls, unleash strong torrents of wind, and giant chunks of rock (in V6). In a way she's basically a makeshift maiden. Weiss' abilities may be held down by the limitations of limited dust supply and aura reserves, but technically her skillset is more varied than the average maiden. She can summon Grimm, create magical trampolines, conjure hard light barriers, manipulate gravity and dilate time - abilities that maidens can't do even without the limitations of aura and dust. I am almost convinced that if Weiss is paired up with the rest of her team, they could defeat a fairly newbie maiden
Aurora Echoes and like that you've sparked my interest in writing a story with maidens abel to do the stuff you just put down like proper Magic but I'm bad at writing so not sure I could do it any form of justice
I agree, the Maidens should JUST have powers that apply only to their season. Spring with nature and plants, Summer with fire and heat, Winter with cold, snow and ice. And Fall with wind and storms
In regards to the part with the relics: the usage of McGuffins and plots around them, are not inherently bad. Overly Sarcastic Productions explained that in a trope talk. Just wanted to say that.
I feel like the Magic of the maidens should have something to do with their relic. Like Creation,they could have very strong healing powers,ressurection,growing plants and all around life and abundance. Destruction could have the opposite,killing people or draining them,destructive energy like fire or lightning. Knowledge could be things like having precognition or divination and even being able to scry on people or see into the past. Choice,that one would be hard and i feel like its the most random out of all the relics because you can do alot with the others,but choice i have no idea I feel like if they had put more thought into the relic idea,or maidens,they could have tried to give something alittle more tangable,especially if this is magic
Choice could be like a type of mind control of sorts. You give someone "choices" and they need to follow them to a tea and they cannot refuse by any means or stay silent. For instance "flee or kill your friends" in a dire situation that you can't have the luxury of just leaving a mission behind.
@@iceage951 yeah i was kinda thinking something similar to that but rather than straight on "brain control" it would "emotion boosts". For example, if somebody is acting wild or crazy, they could send "calm vibes" to them or if somebody is afraid or cowardly, send them "brave vibes" making them "temporarily" brave and courangeous. or maybe have the power to "change the future/present". yeah they can do that with their actions but like lets say somebody had died like 5 minutes ago, the choice maiden would have the power to "cchange" the present/past/future by making the person not die or not get killed in the first place (i am not sure if that makes sense)
Choice could also be probability manipulation. A maiden of choice can influence circumstances affecting one's actions. They can also shift outcomes resulting from said action. So basically Qrow and Clover semblances combined, on steroids, and the maiden can control it. They can also affect nature, but it has to be realistic (like Marble Phantasms in Nasuverse). It also affects the user themselves. Kinda giving them ultra instinct, the ability to move, act, or otherwise make the best possible decision without hesitation (hence being decisive). Knowledge could be clairvoyance as y'all said. Having farsight, but I'll also add a far-(insert every other sense here). It can also nullify illusory semblances like Emerald's and Neo's and other negatively affecting, mind altering semblances by giving "clarity". It also gives one the ability to acquire knowledge (any and all kinds) from other people by reading their minds and memories and "storing the information" into themselves. Conceptually, creation could not only build things on a physical level (like objects) but on a metaphysical level like a mighty empire, forge strong alliances and bonds, give someone powers or enhance acts that involve building in some way. Like construction or even the continuation of life itself. Destruction can also be used in more esoteric ways like cancelling semblances and depleting aura or severing friendships and inducing strife and war, remove one's inhibition or erase one's memories. It can also be used for purification. Curing diseases and ailments, remove obstacles (both physical and metaphysical), and purge trauma and negative emotions.
The Four Maidens aren't the powers of Salem's and Oz's children? in the photo from the wiki Ozma and Salem's Daughters are dressed accordingly to each season. I assume that the maidens are their daughters reincarnated in some form.
@@MegaJohnny74 Those 4 girl are clearly the maidens, they have Oz and Salem's magic and Ozpin ability to reincarnate. Oz and salems daughters are the original 4 maidens, the wizard story was made up my OZ to hide the truth
The actual answer is, who the fuck knows? I honestly doubt there's an actual explanation other than the writers thought that it would seem like a cool tie in.
Still don’t know how they distinguish each maiden from each other visually Because it’s not by ability (because each maiden has access to all elemental powers for some reason) And it’s not by color of the eye flame (bc that’s tied to aura color) So like how do they know which maiden is which??? Like we only know these things because the show tells us. Does each individual maiden just know which one they are automatically?? When they find a maiden do they have to shuffle them around to each door to find out? Does this bug me beyond belief? Yes
@@StarPichu12 I mean I guess But from a design(?) standpoint it’s always bothered me that we as an audience have no way to determine who a maiden is based on ability or reoccurring visual motif, the show has to blatantly tell us other wise we would have no freakin clue.
Yeah that's kinda what sucks about the maidens being so fucking similar. If we didn't get outright told or learn them one by one we'd have next to no indication. At the very least freyja has her etymology and design hinting at it but that's it. Even the names are confusing because Summer Rose and Winter Schnee aren't maidens yet Cinder Fall is a maiden.
@@firewolfandrewb honestly the spring maiden (like every maiden) has access to all elemental abilities so presumedly Raven is only wielding ice abilities to counter Cinders flames Which makes sense, but it all kinda just wraps back around to “why can all maidens use any element at any given time”
I wonder if the Maiden concept had been there from the start team RWBY would have been the new Maidens, or the next four chosen to be Maidens. I also feel like the Maidens would be better if the Gods had created them instead of Oz, giving them a closer link to magic and maybe more purpose.
Yeah I like that.Having them be created by the Gods makes them way closer to the mysterious force of nature that the show wants us to believe they are.
I always felt the RWBY girls were perfect candidates for the maiden powers. Their journeys could have been geared toward gaining each relic's representation. Like Yang needing wisdom and experience to become the Spring Maiden or Weiss becoming more geared toward creating her own path instead of being just another Schnee to become the Winter Maiden. They could have gone somewhere with this and my hopeless fingers crossed they still do in the finale or something.
The maidens story and the story of the relics don’t sync up at all. Just my opinion. All the maidens are just there to unlock vaults and that’s it. Also yeah the fact that ANYONE can use the relics really hurts a certain part of the importance in the shows lore. Cause when you think about the vaults don’t being a thing in the lore also don’t make sense when you really think about all that has been shown and told to us. Also when you think about why the relics need to brought together and even if this was not to case why do the maidens need powers to wield and fight with at all?
I think that's the big thing isn't it? It's not so much that there's just so much happening at once, but the fact that their is a severe lack of connection and purpose.
That's actually a really good point, props to you. Why do the maiden powers even need magic or powers if they're just glorified key holes. No rando on the street is going to go after a maiden who just unlocks a door if that's all they did. In fact it'd be more interesting if that's all they did and it was explored how their life was effectively decided for them as an emergency button or designed to do menial tasks for men.
I think the maidens are supposed be a deconstruction of the mythical magical girl trope. From the moment we meet Amber, it’s clear that having incredible power just makes them a target. Having the power go to the last person you think of sounds whimsical... before you realize that someone could theoretically take the power just by thoroughly torturing a Maiden before death. Or it could be whoever the power goes to turns out to be selfish jerk who doesn’t care about the world like Raven. Then there’s just the chaos and difficulty with the fact that the power only transfers upon death, so a Maiden with an ailing body and mind like Freya is kind of impossible to plan around, and becomes a burden to everyone’s peace of mind (Sort of like lifetime judge appointments...). Even when Pyrrha was first brought in on the secret, Qrow brings up that’s a stupid system for keeping the world safe. So while I think it serves a thematic purpose, I’m still frustrated by the plot and in-character actions that surround it. It’s not clear at all why Ozpin thought any of this was a good idea. He gave up his magic power, the last in the world, to let it bounce around unsupervised around the planet? If the idea was he wanted to empower humans to act independently, why does he lead a secret society dedicated to selecting and controlling these Maidens? Not that we know how much of that fairy tale video is even true. Even the stuff he told his own inner circle can’t be trusted.
I'm fairly certain that there is nothing special thematically happening with the maidens, and especially nothing nearly as complex as a deconstruction(at least not on purpose if it is the case). In fact, the writers seem to be afraid of involving the maidens in any situation where they can actually be effective. Amber got absolutely embarrassed by Cinder and her team, we never saw the previous spring maiden, Raven only got to fight Cinder and quickly catapulted herself back out of the plot, and Freya got all of a few seconds to show off her mastery of the maiden powers before she passed them to an inexperienced Penny. In reply to your second paragraph, it seems that the maiden system was just made up to give the story more room for growth beyond beacon's fall, which seemed like a good plan, but it came at the expense of Ozpin's logic and reasoning. Unfortunately that potential for the maidens to really be an important or revered force in the world is pretty much gone at this point, so now we just have Ozpin looking dumb and the maidens looking way too weak as magic wielders. I feel like making the maidens well known and respected figures rather than obscure travelers would have done the story well.
@@jdavis8373 A major theme of RWBY is questioning whether the students are being used as exploitable pawns so that would fit well with the any honor and prestige behind the maidens actually being a lie. That's why Weiss had that conversation with Winter about her being manipulated in V7. Or do you remember the ending verse of Time to Say Goodbye? "Were we born to fight and die? Sacrificed for one huge lie?"
@@jiado6893 The problem is that conversation, to be frank, wasn’t well written. Like Weiss assumes that Ironwood planned this all along during Winter’s military career but we aren’t even given an indication that’s the case and Winter herself says that he told her relatively recently. And Winter was given the choice to accept the opportunity and is completely willing to do it, nothing shown has ever implied that he manipulated her into anything.
I think that they were trying to make the idea of the maidens more interesting through the tension with Ironwood and Winter trying to manipulate the Winter maiden power. With the powers choosing Penny both rejecting Winters and Ironwoods belief in turning them into living weapons and asserting her humanity. That being said it never is really given anytime to grow. Also like, Cinder collecting the powers like Pokémon is really dumb.
"So as every good fanfic writer know, the best thing to do when you disagree with canon is to take what's there and go 'fuck it, this is mine now'." I mean... you're not wrong.
This concept of passed down powers has been shown within My Hero Academia with the power of One for all as it improves what it can do with each user that the predecessors select to inherit One for all I feel as though the presentation is handled very well where the users don’t just Willy nilly master the powers and instead have to slowly learn how to the powers work otherwise damage themselves by trying to use it all right off the bat
After watching your video I thought of each Seasonal Maidens not only having elemental magic but, powers that represent the relics in some way. Spring Maiden: Ability to replicate and even combine any semblances the user has encountered before. However, excessive use of power can be taxing to the mind to the point it can cause damages to the mind. Summer Maiden: Ability to negate any magic or magic-like phenomena such as Aura, Semblances, Dust temporarily as long as ability is in use also, capable of disabling Grimm temporarily but, does not destroy them. However, the power also negates user's own magic and any magic-like capabilities they posess as well as having no control on what the power affects similar to Qrow's semblance. Another limitation is that using this power on a Dust powered transport may lead to your demise. Fall Maiden: Ability to alter the fate of user, their allies or Enemies once per day such that the user or anyone else can be subjected to an event good or bad even cheating death. However, by altering someone's or their own fate will result in unintended opposite alteration of either the user or the people around them. Winter Maiden: Ability to manifast thoughts and imagination in real life such that they can create objects or even constructs by simply thinking about it while using the power. However, each use of this power consumes part of your lifeforce to bring these creations to life. But, what do you guys think? Should the Maidens have received such powers alongside their elemental magic or do you have different powers in mind? Also do you think the powers are a little rough on the edges?
This was an amazing video! And YES!!! I've always had major issues with the maidens ever since Raven vs Cinder. First thing is, I completely understand that the only reason the maiden's were included in the specific, weird way they were was because Monty passed and that was the most recent idea he came up with. However, I dare say that out of all the things they had to cut since his passing... I feel like the Maidens should have either been cut, or at least massively reworked. I feel like all the maidens having the same avatar powers was some... weird, backwards attempt at being original like "haha! You thought this was gonna be Shaolin Showdown!? But it was I, the Smash Clone!" But in the end it just made the Maidens more... boring. In my opinion assuming that going any deeper with the maidens would have screwed with the limited time the show has *cough* castbloat *cough*, I think that instead of giving the maidens powers, instead have them literally just be keys. They are keys to each of the vaults, and they literally have nothing to defend themselves but their own skill, which makes the burden of being a maiden all the more terrifying. On top of that it would fix the fact that RWBY already has three magic systems (Aura, Semblance, Dust) and now we don't have to worry about a fourth one. Also for future videos, I would love to see you tackle the topic of the show's cast-bloat. Cause as much as I love them, Ren and Nora have to go.
My main problem with the the Maidens is something that actually ties into another fundamental flaw that RWBY has had since the first season:It does a very poor job at explaining the limitations/rules/nuances of Dust,Aura,and Semblances(and when it does,it gets retconned.) and because of that,it has knockoff effects when Magic is introduced. When the Maidens come into the picture,the show obviously wants us to see Maidens as this powerful,mysterious,OOC(out-of-context) force that flips the established rules on it's head. The only problem with that? By the time the concept of Maidens is introduced,the show has done such a shit job at establishing the magic systems it had to begin with that there's no real distinction between Dust/Aura/Semblances. Because the show lacked solid baseline from which deviations could be made the purpose of the Maidens is muddled instantly. At this point,we've seen so many Semblances do so many things,that when it's revealed that Maidens have elemental control,it comes off as not only underwhelming,but it confused people into wondering what the Maidens were actually about. Can anyone honestly tell me that what we see the Maidens do is more esoteric than what we've seen out of Semblances? Weiss's allows her to speed up time,slow it down,and buff others. It's a mini magic system in and of itself. And maybe Weiss's is a weird case,but Ruby can turn into rose petals on command, and Blake can turn into afterimages. And on the villain side,Emerald can straight up do illusions and Merc's father can fucking steal a Semblance permanently. I think something has gone wrong if people thought at first that Qrow's Semblance was him shifting into a bird, rather than the bad luck And the writers had to confirm that the later was the case. It also doesn't help that what little narrative purpose the Maidens had to begin with(being a symbol of the Ancient past) was taken when the Relics entered the picture.
I have a take that’ll probably be ignored or be too flawed to work if we had the opportunity to change it. To make it more unique: The Fall And Winter Maidens are Female The Spring and Summer Maidens are Male since it’s the opposite gender it would be: Fall and Winter Maiden & Summer and Spring Bachelor So best way to generalize them is to call them the Seasonal Acolytes Only those of the same gender can take up those positions I chose this cause i want it to be a Sun and Moon contrast, The Moon represents Femininity and is Female and the Sun represents Masculinity and is Male. Abilities: Summer: All fire and heat based powers including plasma too Spring: Any and all Nature or Earth related powers Fall: All Weather based powers including the Air itself Winter: All Water, Ice, and cold based powers Magic: It’s magic in nature and they each have a source of magical energy to use these powers and convert said magical energy into the their respective energy of their seasons but it recharges like Mana meaning they can either tire themselves out or overuse it and need time to use these powers again and the amount of magical energy depends on the user and training. Limitation: They can only generate energy through the magic energy, like summer can only generate his own energy like plasma, electricity, heat and flames through converting their magical energy into it or for the Winter Maiden cold energy, they can’t convert the magical energy into matter like ice so winter would have to use cold energy and temperatures to make the ice appear instead or rocks and plants for spring they’d have to use its energy to manipulate Nature and Earth instead producing it from the magical energy since its matter. And not to mention the Acolytes are less powerful when they’re using their magical powers during the opposite season, summer is less powerful in winter, and vice versa, and fall is less powerful in spring, and vice versa. Emotional/Conceptual Aspect: Winter- Winter embodies Despair, the pain of the world, meaning being the winter maiden means you are, have or will have some form of emotional pain and despair to embody being the Winter Maiden, taking the despair of the world upon yourself to keep it from spreading. Fall- Fall embodies the connection between the world and its history, basically Nostalgia, using the past of not just themselves but the world around them to keep it from making the same mistakes again. Spring- Spring embodies Hope, hope for the future, keeping all minds set on how to get through the paths laid out to lead to a better tomorrow. Summer- Summer embodies Passion, all the strongest emotions of the world itself, the weakest emotion one could feel is the one that the user least feels the most passion for, so it can very from the most passionate feeling being love for the world and embodying all the love within it and happiness, to anger and hatred, all it takes is passion on an emotion to fuel the flame of the Summer Bachelor which is what makes them the one with the most raw power. Events: Minor: The Summer and Winter Acolytes are stronger during their respective time, Summer during High Noon and from comets and Winter during Midnight or during a blood moon, the blood moon and comet only come in every so years but they have their enhancements from a full moon and high noon everyday but only during that hour Spring and Fall can be enhanced 24/7 by their respective season unlike summer and winter since they embody their major seasons far more so they can only be enhanced in smaller ways, but once their respective season is over Spring and Fall would have to wait till their seasons are active again to have this constant enhancement 24/7 while Summer and Winter would only have an hour but only need to wait till the next day. Major: During a solar eclipse the moon and sun symbolically becomes one meaning all Acolytes are at the most powerful state and fuse as a gender less entity of the seasons making them the Eclipse, the avatar of the world itself, Capable of even being the bridge between the world and afterlife and manipulate souls and its energy(Aura), but it’s dangerous to be in this form if there’s powerful threats due to danger of the cycle of the seasonal acolytes ending if they die in this form making it their strongest and most vulnerable form at the same time Sorry this isn’t as neatly put together as it could but i hope y’all liked this concept
The Maiden kinda are linked to their respective relics thematically. Pyrrha having to make the choice between becoming the next Spring Maiden or not. How the knowledge Raven got from Ozpin's secrets drove her away from her family and loved ones. Penny, since she was a robot, being a creation of Atlas' advanced engineering. Though I guess they mostly came to be when they realised that since the bad guys already had control over one Academy they needed something to prevent them to just take the relic, so bam, instant glorified keys.
So uh... I don't even feel like that fanfic rwby rewrite part was necessary to the video. Besides, the concepts were starting well but she got way ahead of yourself, especially with the genders. It's both exclusive and inclusive and I see no point in it. Just have it be random.
Hey remember when Dust was important? It was in the opening cutscene and literally nowhere else. (Roman spends two entire volumes stealing the stuff but he might as well have just been taking money or precious jewels to sell) RWBY's biggest problem is that it keeps throwing out new cool ideas without developing any of the old ones. Or the new ones, really =/
24:00 - Unicorn of War: "All this is to say that, like most things in RWBY, I love the ideas on display here but everything feels like a rough first draft." I feel the same way with the other Miraculous holders in Miraculous Ladybug. The show can add more heroes to help Ladybug and Chat Noir but if it doesn't develop the ones that it already has, then what's the point?
I know that everyone is tired of the trope of "The Chosen One". But honestly. Why are the maidens not the four protagonists ??? Seriously. It was going to make a lot more sense than being a random character that appears at some point in the story and would solve the problem that RWBY team has of not really being protagonists of their own stories.
The more writer side of me wants to say the reason they didn’t do build-up to Penny getting the powers was it would have killed the twist. While most writers could probably figure out that Winter was not going to become the maiden, it was treated more or less as a twist right up into the scene it happened that Penny would be the one to become the next bearer. Balancing build-up and shock swerve are two very hard things to do and often you have to sacrifice one for the sake of the other. Honestly speaking though, I wouldn’t really care if the maidens represented nothing. Sometimes, as much as we like to get hung up on thematic elements as writers, hyper focusing on those elements can come to the detriment of the story because not only does it make things predictable but it runs the risk of running stale. When you really get down to it, some of the most famous stories and movies really don’t represent anything. Or at least the author really didn’t intend for them to represent anything and it’s more English teachers trying to build metaphors off the material available in some cases. I’ve heard large theses about what the shark in Jaws represents, when in full actuality all it is, by the intention of the author and then filmmakers, just a big scary monster with a realism bend. This isn’t me saying representative fiction can’t be great, it most certainly can, but sometimes things just don’t need to be like that. And honestly speaking I do still see some influence the relics have on the maidens or women whom fate seem to decide to become maidens. We don’t know anything about summer so leaving that aside. Penny is a literal creation and functionally speaking not a woman or as to the origins of her spirit, which came from a man. However, she identifies and off as a woman and as a creation that her becoming the winter maiden and thus connected to the relic of creation makes sense. Raven had her worldview and alliances affected by gaining knowledge, so much so she ran away from both her teammates, family, and mentor. While she might have done this before she became the spring maiden and thus connected to the relic of knowledge, semantically it does make sense. That knowledge has now stuck with her and is why she firmly is set in her ways to the point you would align with the villains because of what she knows of them. Cinder and Amber are both affected by choices. Amber made the choice to disregard the danger and go about without any help or protection, despite being very young and not well trained in her powers. She paid for that choice with the consequence of getting ambushed and beaten down by others that had also chosen evil. Cinder has stuck to her choice to turn her back on a majority of humanity and subsequently begin losing her humanity. Is it as in-depth characterization and metaphor as it could be? No. But it is they are and I felt that if they made it more parents there would be a risk of being too up too obtuse.
Strong disagree here. The thing with themes, sometimes the author didn't mean to add them in but they are still there. It's not just English teachers looking to deep (btw, they do this as a thought exercise in critical and creative thinking). Using your example with Jaws; yes the director didn't mean to use the shark as a metaphor for the primal fear that humans have. However, he still taps into that fear to make an effective thriller movie. That's what a good story does. They use human experiences and emotions to make the audience think or feel something, which causes a theme to emerge, whether the writer likes it or not.
@@patronofdragons So if an author didn't intend a theme, and someone insists there is one but another person either says they got something different from it or also saw no theme; who's right? Is anyone right? Can one side call the other wrong? I wasn't just using English teachers as an example with the intent of being derisive, merely pointing out the observation that where someone sees a theme; someone else might see something completely different or lack of anything. Just an entertaining plot. To go back to Jaws, one could argue the shark isn't a metaphor for primal fear and is instead a literal, tangible danger. No different than having a loaded gun pointed at one's self. It's scary to be attacked by something bigger than we are in a place we aren't as capable of defending or evading danger, like the ocean. But it's just as much a fact of life that great whites are big, capable of inflicting grievous harm, and humans can't swim very fast. Compare this to much more apparent thematic horror with Alien, which despite being often called 'Jaws in Space', is much heavier on the metaphoric horror with rape imagery, bastardizations of pregnancy, and very visceral looking imagery on the monster and set designs. What I was demonstrating here was such a dissonance however. Unicorn concluded the maidens representing nothing and had no thematic ties to the respective relics. I stated I did see some ties tethering them together and that intensive attempts at a theme might not be necessary. They are certainly not wrong in their judgement, but I'm just noting this is a YMMV kind of topic.
The problem with that is that this type of thinking is *TERRIBLE WRITING.* When you make a twist you have to keep *both* the build up and the shock in mind when writing a story. Because losing either makes the twist fall apart. When you have no build up at all you get the feeling that the twist was lazily came out of nowhere and only happened because the writer wanted to be shocking for the sake of it. When you lose you the shock by making everything so frigging obvious you make everyone see it coming a mile away and make the audience just sit in boredom as the plot gets to the obvious conclusion everyone expected. Both of these things aren’t good for a story. When writing a good twist you have to leave breadcrumbs of this conclusion so that the audience can be surprised when you want them to be and when the audience looks back they see little hints of this conclusion all along and believe the author was a genius. Also themes are just a basic element of a story. And a important one at that. Because themes add a bit of consistency to the story and can shape how one views the story. You can say RWBY has a theme regarding fours and you can see that crop up in numerous ways in the story. Themes don’t inherently make things “predictable.” You can still have a clever twist that was foreshadowed competently while still having themes in the story. Heck you could interwoven the themes into the twist for maximum effect. And even without this what else is there that justifies the Maidens’ inclusion? They are essentially living macguffins needed to find the macguffins, and once they get those they aren’t actually needed anymore. They’re plot devices more than real characters. And the issue there is that theme feels more like a stretch then anything else and it reveals a hole in the Maiden system. The story previously said that someone *HAS* to be a biological woman to be eligible. Men are explicitly exempt from this. Penny however isn’t a biological girl, she’s just a robot who *looks* like a girl. Logically speaking she shouldn’t be able to get the powers of the Winter Maiden, but she does which raises questions that I highly doubt the writers even thought through. Like what *are* the rules? Is Penny eligible because she identifies as a girl? The show never portrayed the Maiden Powers as actually caring about what someone thinks… since they aren’t sentient beings, they are magical powers given limitations by a old wizard, if they did I doubt they would let the Maiden Powers go to their fucking killer. If so then what’s stopping someone biologically born male from just saying they identify as female and just killing the Maiden? Would it work for them like it did Penny? If that’s the case then Salem could just send anyone to get the powers, because if Hazel did that would the powers go to him. What’s the point of Salem keeping Cinder around then? And what’s the point of establishing this gender barrier if it’s this easily bypassed? Functionally the barrier stops actually acting as one because the limitations doesn’t fundamentally exist. If you establish rules like this you have to actually follow them. While Raven might bear this theme it’s not really handled well. We don’t know a whole lot about what she knows or why she specifically did the things she did. She might know about Salem’s immortality but with how tight lipped Ozpin was about it she also might not. And her character in relation to Team STRQ and Yang isn’t as executed well as it could have been. Raven gets a decent amount of screen time but she isn’t used functionally. She spouts pointless exposition and maybe tries to get Yang to join her, but it never really goes anywhere, Yang’s arc with her and Summer are underdeveloped. Except we don’t really see that. We don’t see Amber actually do that. We don’t see her actually disregard any dangers. And Qrow was close enough to intervene in the battle so it was likely that he was supposed to be around from afar to protect her, which is something we seen him do with Ruby so it’s likely to be the case, so she didn’t really make a choice. If anything I would argue that the *lack* of choice is what connects her to choice. Since the situation with Cinder ambushing her and stealing her powers were things that were out of her own hand, thus she had no choice at all in this scenario. And Cinder could fit what you said I guess but we know so little about her character and why she does things that it frankly doesn’t matter. Choices made by characters don’t really matter if there is no real reason for them. She just wants power for power’s sake.
@@ryancarson6962 Hands full at the moment so I'll do a full response later. I was just noting that they went for a twist, I wasn't defending it :) To briefly entertain playing devil's advocate however, one should note the limited screen time available for a season. Could resources and time been allocated to the Penny plot? Probably. But adding so much build up can also risk dragging out a plot.
You lost me at the part where you suggest having each Oracle having to be a specific "gender". Like, why does the gender of the person even have to matter, when a far better option is to just have each god have a philosophy, and their oracle following that philosophy religiously be it in a good or bad way. This way it truly opens up the "Maiden" concept to all genders seeing as how that is your goal; by not making it matter so much. It also opens up some interesting conflicts of how some past Oracles could've been at war, or how some characters in the cast can disagree with the oracles and their philosophies, as well as their enforcement of them. You obviously put in research into religions and philosphies, you should've focused more deeply into that, but putting up a barrier to characters that align with those ideals, but can't become an Oracle simply because they're "not the right gender" sounds so dumb and backwards of what we're trying to achieve. I agree with a lot of what you criticize about the show, and I agree that something needs to be changed. However this alternative you're offering just seems like you're pushing this weird agenda. In the video you say how you wanted to open the concept of the maidens to any gender... but for some reason you just segregated it even more. If you wanted to expand the amount of characters that can be "Maidens", why even make gender a factor at all?
tbh I didn't understand WHY you chose to change the sexism angle. Yes, it's not well done in RWBY, but the Maidens being a representation of female empowerment can work especially considering Salem is a victim of her abusive father, is twisted by male presenting gods... RWBY seems to be trying something here with her hairstyle being clearly based off a Geisha. Also, I feel like the "Enby can fit any role" to be a big ol' yikes... I get it was conceived by two nb people but maybe don't create a story where male and female overlap with enby in a "jack of all trades" way?? I just... not a fan of this video at ALL I'm sorry
Hi, Oracle creator here. Now, when I came up with the idea of nonbinary folks being a "jack of all trades" for lack of a better term, I did that because I wanted to make sure that my gender isn't left out. We're barely represented as is, let alone in positions of power. Also, you're forgetting a key aspect: the deity decides whether or not a person is worthy. It isn't just "oh, I'm nonbinary, I can be any Oracle!" The deity has to give the okay. Otherwise, no powers. Believe me, I've thought long and hard on this.
@@CrystalDragonCynzi I comprehend the choice to go to the more inclusive approach but I think the concept of an Oracle(be it any season) needs to be more inclusive as well for it to work. If a enby were to become the winter Oracle it would make certain members of the audience uncomfortable, because of course it would, “female” is not how you want to be recognized, and while people can identify as both perceiving it as the norm is something I cannot jive with, personally (having an outside force or deity dictating who is or isn’t worthy of power would not fix my issues, either, that can have some pretty nasty implications for trans folk...). I don’t mind having the Oracle be restricted to one gender or one umbrella term, you can use it to explore the struggles of one particular demographic the same way I mention in the original comment for women, but if you want to be more inclusive, if I may give my own idea, just make the Oracles have to be four different genders regardless of what season, that way it could be about harmony between four very different individuals and the implications would be less dangerous. I don’t want to act like the fun police here, it’s your au, it’s your choice to do as you please, I just hope I’m expressing the reasoning as to why reading it would make me personally uncomfortable :P
@@seasustrai6547 Hi, sorry for taking so long to reply back! It took me some time to be sure I was understanding what you meant (autism, yay) and then I fell asleep, but you do bring up a really valid point. I hadn't even seen it as possibly having the implications of an outside force judging if someone is "trans enough" which to me is bonkers--if you're trans you're trans. But thank you for pointing that out. I've since decided that rather than it being a "you must be this tall to ride this ride" thing, it would be more that any and all genders are able to be an Oracle, the person has to have the right qualities mainly. Thank you for having this discussion with me and for pointing these things out.
@@CrystalDragonCynzi thank you for dedicating some time to understand what I was trying to say (English is not my first language). Good luck on the rewrites
The maidens not having specific powers always bugged me glad you made this video. Like everytime Cinder uses fire I'm like "bitch you aren't the summer maiden, you're fall; you should be making plants die and shit" Edit: Thanks to Cinder's backstory we know her semblance is fire or heat. And since Penny seems to only use ice/snow. And Amber's fighting style was mostly storms. I do infact think there are specific powers. But think of it more like a One for all were it basically acts as a semblance enhancer which is why Cinder uses massive fire. That's the magic fused with her semblance. It'd be like if Bakugo had One for all, he'd have explosives ontop of strength enchancement.
I made a alternative to the maindens based on the "Rise of the Guardians", with insted of maindens we have a group based on folclore characters: Nicholas Schnne (Santa claus) : guardian of Wonder, "the one who sees a light in the deepest dark". Bunnybun (easter bunny) : guardian of Hope, "the one who will never give up on a cause". Thoothyanna (Thooth Fairy): guardian of memories, "the one who will guard the most importants chapters of life". Sandy (sandman): guardian of Dreams," the one who shall make their achivments come True". I'll look for better names later They are choosen by a misteryous ententy called "The moon man" who chooses the next guardian based on this characteristics of "Wonder","Hope","Memories" and "Dreams", so that they can defeat the King of Nightmares (the boogeyman), who is the REAL master of Grimm. I also gave a new origin to Dust, insted of simple Minerals, they're pieces of the ancient planets destroyed by the Nightmare King. This is how it would play out: Wonder: Weiss in this story would be much more close to her grandfather, so much so that her orignal goal of become a huntress was so that she could fight side by side with her grandfather. But afters his death "DEFINITELY" caused by natural causes, weiss stars to be more pessimistic, even getting a much more racist point of view thanks of the influance of her father and mother. But this Changes once she meets with team RBY, and she starts to have much more happines in her life, especially after meeting Blake (who she'll end up dating in this version). She would start to see much more oppurtunitys of helping old enemys and actually make a difference and fix her old mistakes, she would also be the one to try to reason out with the villans way more than the rest of the cast, even more than Ruby, because of what her grandfather thaught and represented. Hope: Blake is someone who's starting to give up on her cause, especially after the assasination of BunnyBun (who's the equivalent of Gahid and M.king), she would just try to hide her traits and try to leave it behind...but she can't. Depp down she cares about the discrimination of Faunus and would still do small things like donating money, stoping assault, etc. And after the fall of beacon she would say "FUCK IT" and go after the white fang and try to defeat the corruption within the group that BunnyBun created in intent to raise the Faunu's voices so that he could bring equallity Blake afterwards would be a "hopefull" character, meaning that she would be the first one to keep the team's self-steam and try her best to keep everyone moving forwards. Memories: Yang would be tossing certains memories away so that she could focus on the "most important" and ending up ruining her relationship with her TRUE mother, Summer, and creating a obssecion on finding her BIOLOGICAL mother, Raven. But after rediscovering those memories she starts to question her self to why she was after something that she din't needed, and stat to focus on what is REALLY important, her family and friends and keep them all safe. She would become one that would reminds the team of the reasons/ the ones they are fighting for, keeping in the importance of those memories and how that can bring streght. Dreams: Ruby has a lots of dreams, she dreams with a better world, dream to become a huntress and whishes for the better of humanity. Ruby would have a bit of every of the Guardians, and she would have the most conflict with the Nightmare King, since she has thee "Silver Eyes", gift of the Moon man and she was chosen by Sandy (who's a god like figure of this world). She would want to help every one's dreams come true, and try to make a better world in the process Obs: that's it, relly liked the video and sorry for any bad english.
I'm still all for the Four Oracle's of Remnant inspired by Cynzi but I'd die for a whole RWBY team based on Rise of the Guardian's Characters, they could be old friends of Nicholas Schnee. I'm thinking their team name could be like MNST (Moonstone) or maybe SAND (Sand).
Yeah, I'm definitely going with Team SAND, also, I imagine they'd be in charge of acting as the Oracle's Bodyguards that's meant to always be by their side so they'll have extra protection if they're unable to fend off anyone trying to steal their powers. We've got: Sandstone Mansnoozle (The Team's Leader who resides in Vacuo with the Nightcrawler's & is in charge of protecting the Summer Oracle of Vacuo, he was born mute, therefore, he can't speak. However, his semblance allows him to control sand, & one of the things he can do with Sand is manipulate it & form Emoji/Wingding's-Like Symbol's in tandem with his Sign Language Gesture's. His weapon's are known as "Ol' Lukoje", a pair of Dust-Energized Kinetic Palm Gun-tlet's that also have a Dust-Constructed Whip Mode. He's in charge of protecting the Current Summer Oracle of Vacuo, Carnelius Ifriti, Emeraude's (My rewrite of Emerald Sustrai & Carnelius' Predecessor) Best Friend who alludes to the Genie of the Lamp from "Aladdin & The Wonderful Lamp" from "1001 Arabian Nights" by Antoine Galland like the Spirit of the Lamp of Knowledge of The Summer Oracle of Vacuo's Vault, Jinn, does. Aster Bunnymund (A Hare Faunus with the Ears & Tail of a Hare who specializes in Dust Alchemy as well as Hunting down the Creatures of Grimm who originated from Menagerie but now resides in Vale with the Gran Tavola & is in charge of protecting the Fall/Autumn Oracle of Vale, he's also the uncle of one of my own character's, Leveret De Blanc's to be specific, both have the ability to conjure a portal that leads anywhere they're know of or has at least heard or seen before, Leveret conjures his portals by tracing his index finger on a hard, flat surface in a clockwise-fashion while Aster conjures his by stumping the ground 3x times like a rabbit would. His weapon's are known as "Pascal" & "Washi", Twin Kukri Dagger''s w/ Built-In Revolver's that merge together into a Gravity-Energized, Bladed Boomerang & a collection of Dust-Flinted Metsubushi. He's in charge of protecting the Current Fall/Autumn Oracle of Vale, Ambre DunLoch, Lancelin's (Whose part of Team GALM/Gallium AKA: Team Knights of the Round Table) Auncle who alludes to the Lady in the Lake from the Old English Legend of "King Arthur & The Knights of the Round Table" like the Spirit of the Sword of Destruction of The Fall/Autumn Oracle of Vale's Vault, Morgen, does.) Nicholas Schnee (Weiss/Winter/Jaxon's (My rewrite of Whitley Schnee who now alludes to both Jack from "Jack & The Cuckoo Clock Heart" by Matthias Malzieu & Jack Frost from European Folklore) Grandfather & Marzanna's (My rewrite of Jacques Gele (Schnee) who not only fill is the Evil Queen Grimhilde to Weiss' Snow White, but also alludes to Jadis the White Witch from "The Chronicles of Narnia" Series.) Father who is not only in charge of protecting the Winter Oracle of Atlas, but also is married to her. (Her name's Yuki, who alludes to Snegurochka from Russian Folklore.) His semblance, which he passed down to his children & grandchildren is known as "Solomon", which allows them to conjure a glyph which in turn conjures any Creature of Grimm they've slain before, with Nick's go-to one being a Krampus Grimm, Weiss' being 7x Pukwudgie Grimm, Winter's being a Golem Grimm, & Jaxon's being a fleet of Impundulu. His weapon's are known as "Frech" & "Nett" (German for Naughty & Nice), Twin Dust-Coatable Koncerz Sword's. He use to have been in charge of the Schnee Dust Company, but, with his wife falling gravely ill, he left Marzanna in charge while he takes care of his dying wife with the help of Team RWFS/Rufous. And after Yuki dies, Friya Turq, A member of Team RWFS (AKA: Team Robin Hood & His Merry Men) who alludes to both Friar Tuck & The Blue Fairy/The Maiden with Turquoise Hair from "The Adventures of Pinocchio" like the Spirit of the Scepter of Creation of the Winter Oracle of Atlas' Vault, Sidhe, does, becomes the next Winter Maiden of Atlas.) Dentata Alternanthera (A Hummingbird Faunus with the Wings & the Feather's in her Braided Hair of a Hummingbird who resides in Mistral & works as Mistral's top officer in lowering Mistral's crime rates & is in charge of protecting the Spring Oracle of Mistral. Her semblance allows her to gain insight on an item's history simply by touching it, which could also explain her unhealthy obsession with collecting teeth she's collected from criminals she beat up as she needs them to learn more about how they ended up as such. Her weapon's are known as "The Sister's of Flight", a pair of bracer's with a concealed Ramdao she can take out in a Sekiro-Esque fashion, a collection of Dust-Cored Dart's she can sling at enemies, & a Grappling Hook Function she mostly uses to latch onto her enemies if they attempt to run for it or to trip them up. She's a bit preoccupied at the moment solving Mistral's crime's, but her main task is to keep a close eye on Ren Yin, who alludes to Guan-Yin, Chinese Goddess of Mercy who makes an appearance in "Journey to The West" by Wu Cheng'en like the Spirit of the Crown of Choice of the Spring Oracle of Mistral's Vault, does.)
I like the idea that ozma made the maidens to keep his daughters alive like he is kept alive, and the reason he seeks them out, try’s to control who they go to etc, is because he wants his daughters he feels so much guilt over to still be alive. Maybe the magic they have us the magic passed down to them by Salem and Ozma. The immortal family.
Not having new stuff isn't the problem. The show needs better focus. Find the thing that works and expand on it, not throwing everything in the pot and hoping that it will all work out.
(This is a comment before watching the video). The maidens are so cool and I wish they weren’t retconned. If they were an idea from the beginning I feel like there would’ve been more time to develop what they could represent
Do we know why teams of huntsmen are 4? Maybe these could have been the first? Like, they were once the high standard, and the characters of team RWBY have to be the new high standard of teamwork and cooperation, replacing the fracture of the maidens’ original team. But I also think they are just going to connect them to Oz’s daughters and that’s it.
Just a suggestion but the maidens maybe could have been based off of the relics with powers that relate like destruction can destroy stuff or creation can create stuff etc. Make it like the people who wield the powers must have this personality trait in order to use it fully so it’s not like some girl can get the power and be able to use it and if this is the case, then give destruction to cinder and make her an actual threat.
I feel like RT could have spun the cliche of the Maiden story on it's head and emphasized how it was a huge mistake on Ozma's part. Like, dude you just spread your singular ability to unlock the relic chambers across 4 other people who are arbitrary at a baseline AND you made yourself way weaker than Salem in a 1 on 1 fight. Good one mate. Instead of relying on this idea of these 4 mysterious people being the key to everything (and thereby taking it very seriously), you could treat it as if it's this absurd, stupid decision that a flawed person made and it ultimately led to Salem's victory. Also, Penny's semblance/soul is part of a MAN'S and nobody has mentioned how it undermines the "women only" aspect of the maidens. Like, that's a PERFECT setup to address how semblance/soul isn't gendered and maybe there COULD be a male or trans maiden, so long as the prior maiden had them in their thoughts.
Honestly, I don't think relying on a McGuffin is itself a plot, but using them results in you needing to make the story around them good, as in a "The journey is what manners" thing
For me that exactly the point, on his long life, Oz finished to make error in some old life. So its only logic that maidens seems artificial in the story : because they are. Oz did it sentimentaly while thinking of his lost children, without thinking so much about it.
I don't remember if I mentioned it somewhere before, but I had an idea of the Maiden Powers having the same powers, but changing as they are received by different Maidens. Adapting abilities and traits similar to previous Maiden's Semblances, or changing the colors of some of their elements to match their Aura's. All the Maidens can summon lightning, but the color of their lightning would be different, and their speed, precision and force will vary. If a Maiden has an aggressive, battle driven personality, they might have the ability to form powerful weapons and unleash the elements with greater force. By contrast, a calmer, more focused Maiden would be able use their abilities with precision. Similar to how Dust amplifies Semblances and Weapons, each new Maiden modifies the Maiden Powers by adding their own traits to it. If Yang were to gain Maiden Powers, they would replicate some of the traits of her Semblance and allow future Maiden's to use a similar ability to increase their strength when they're in danger. The change retains a part of the previous Maidens, and allows their strength to continue helping others long after death, while also characterizing previous Maidens.
Has anyone ever questioned that, why instead the Spring vault is a desert (similar to Summer) and Winter is a grassy field (similar to Spring) and why is the Winter maiden relic creation, I feel like I would switch the maidens associated with a relic and give the one power each. Spring nature and earth powers and the creation relic. Summer fire powers and the knowledge or choice relic Fall air/wind powers and the choice or knowledge relic Winter ice powers and the distraction relic
I was okay with everything until the thing with Penny, didn't watch the rest of the Volume and seriously, I watched V5 and 6 with passion but I still prefer my An Ren being Salem theory and the girl just being a former Student, not Salem who looked up to Ozpin and still admires him, basically a young adult who graduated and knows about his "secret" statue.
Honestly when it comes to the Maidens I always thought it was more of a vindictive attack from Salem on Ozpin. Because he made these women, and so by wanting to claim them for her self, it was kind of Salem’s way of punishing Ozpin. The relics are the end game items. Taking the maidens is more of a personal extra. “Rubbing salt in the wounds.”
A really simple ass way to connect the Maidens to the Relics would to have the Relics function exclusively in the hands of the Maidens. Not only do you need the Maiden to open the vault, she's also necessary for the relic to actually work. If there was more thematic connection between the Maidens and the Relics, there's some genuine potential here.
I mean they represent Ozma's daughters and each are the key to the relics that he locked away to prevent the end of the world... Pretty straight forward.
Cinder is a still a POINTLESS character...We are 7 Volumes into the series and we STILL have no backstory for Cinder or her motivations for working for Salem
From what I heared Miles came to Monty with the desire to expand on the lore and add the relics for that reason. Monty didn't like the idea but compromised by creating the four maidens. Now after Monty's death Miles was able to introduce the relics into the story. However the maidens were still there so he apparently made them the keys to the relics. This seems to be a case of "too many cooks spoil the broth"
@@troperhghar9898 I don’t think a joke where Oscar refers to a hypothetical transgender person as ‘a transgender’ would go over very well. The topic itself is worth discussing, imo, but not if we’re going to be using dehumanizing language regarding people of unconventional gender identities.
The Avatar still keeps their individuality though. Each one tries to fulfill their destiny as the Avatar in their own way. Heck, as far as we know, Aang is the first Avatar to ever have kids, showing they can also choose how to live their life
'There dosent need to be a reason why women get these powers in the first place... Not when men have historically held most of the cards in their favour ...' I dont understand your reasoning here. Sexism exists, therefore the lore doesnt need to have reasons?
This may be unpopular and I’m not trying to have this come off as sexist. This is just the writer in me being analytical and realistic. All the characters in RWBY are not something I would call great characters. Team RWBY itself features one actually good character, Weiss. One bland but kinda good character, Ruby. A character whose more inconsistent than a politician, Yang. Finally a character I hate, not in a villain I love to hate way but in a I hate this character with my soul, Blake. A good character needs to be consistent. Weiss has been the most consistent character in the show, but if you compare her to almost any show she kinda looks like a bad character because she scratches the bare minimum requirements to be a good character. In comparison to all the characters in RWBY Weiss is the shining star but in comparison to other shows she’s kinda bad.
@ZerotoHero148 Dude there is nothing sexist about what you said, because if team RWBY were dudes and written as we've seen, the problem would be the same. Hell as a writer myself, inconsistencies in characterization are what I try to avoid because of crap like this. Miles and Kerry need a writer or two that are good at world building and drama, but they refuse for reasons that God only knows.
@@DemonicRemption i just didn’t want anyone to take what I said the wrong way. This is 2020 after all. I will say the show got better in volume 7 cause the new writers, but they need to cut the main cast in half to fix their problem. There’s too many characters. It should be Team RWBY, Oscar, Qrow, Penny, Ironwood, Ace ops, then the Villain Squad.
Well it could’ve definitely been interesting to see the powers reject their host due to combating parts of them, such as differing personality, gender, sexuality or other core concepts of a person’s psyche. I mean, realistically the only reason that it’s four women in lore is because Ozma had four daughters. It’s not really used past “look at this strong women!” Who then proceed to get hunted for the rest of their lives and rather easily get taken down.
@@McKnighty okay, well you can’t really say what he “wasn’t about” because he’s not around to make such statements. The maidens were one of his last ideas before his unfortunate passing, so who knows, maybe he had more ideas about them past just what we have in the show.
@@klausoshaunacey8429 In the three seasons he's worked on, he's never been seen to be interested in the whole expanding gender thing that some people obsesses over. And created any characters that represented that either. We have enough evidence that he loves to drink pee by comparison.
Ok, so I know that I am 10 months late but I have a few ideas for the maidens. So we know that each season represents a specific element and the relics represent a specific quality, so I decided to expand a bit on that. Now the Summer maiden is the guardian of the Sword Of Destruction, so I was thinking that maybe the power could transfer through death or murder. So if the original maiden died of natural causes or by accident, then the power would transfer to the person they were closest to or if the maiden was murdered then the power would go to the murderer. Thus, representing the quality of death and destruction. The elemental power would be fire. The Fall maiden is the guardian of the Crown Of Choice, so when the original maiden grows weak, she will be able to choose the new maiden and the new maiden will be able to choose whether or not she wants the power. So basically both parties have a choice in each in their destinies. This also means that the fall maiden power can be easily corrupted. The elemental power could be wind. The Winter maiden of the guardian of the Staff Of Creation, so basically the power will be hereditary ( like the glyph semblance), so the firstborn child of the winter maiden will receive the power. The winter maiden will lose their power immediately and the magic will reside in their child. However, the child will not immediately show that power rather the power will grow with the owner. This means that even though the power is lost immediately, it will take time to adjust to the new body and will reveal itself throughout various stages. I made this concept a bit more complicated to show that creation is not a short process with things materializing out of nowhere, rather it is a long process involving formation and growth. Also, this way we can tie the creative powers of the staff to the summoning power of the glyphs suggesting that maybe the glyphs are tied to the winter maiden. The power is ice and snow. The Spring maiden is the guardian of the Lamp Of Knowledge and spring signifies growth and change. So, I decided on Coven's approach. As the original spring maiden's power weakens the power of the new maiden increases. The new maiden doesn't take away life though, they only take away the magic. So basically there is a gradual change in the power dynamic. This allows the original maiden to adjust to the lack of magic and the new maiden to adjust to magic. This new host is selected on one particular condition. The newer maiden must be less experienced in life but should have a greater curiosity. Thus the new maiden would have plenty of room to learn, showing that the process of attaining knowledge is more important than knowledge itself. The elemental power is nature. Now I know that I have plenty of plotholes in this idea (I just thought of it today in the shower) and implementing them would greatly change the storyline, so no need to take these seriously. I just wanted to establish certain base concepts. I tried my best in making the maiden powers more unique so that each maiden would not be a carbon copy of the other. Some extra details -- I decided that the maidens won't have a particular gender. Anyone can die, any biological and fertile gender can have children, anyone can choose and anyone can have a deep interest in learning. I know that the winter maiden power is a bit controversial so I just want to shed some light on it. The only way for the power to transfer to the new maiden is by having a biological child. If the current maiden doesn't have a biological child or can't have one then the power will disappear from that family forever and will choose a more suitable family lineage. So, this means that for a noble family ( like the Schnees ) who is in control of the maiden power, to retain their position is by procreation. This ties down the traditional concept of marriage and parenthood being sacred, creating a deeper sense of conflict for the maiden. Do they follow their dreams or do they follow their conservative lifestyle and keep their family in power. So yeah, here are my ideas. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.
Yeah, a LOT of things are pointless now a days in RWBY. Any one of these ideas could've worked on their own, but when dumped into a melding pot then throwing the contents onto a wall to see what sticks muddles the ideas into a redundant mess that can only be understood by data miners or fan fiction writers who implement their own logic into the series in order to force the story to make sense for them. Still, whatever floats your boat as far as I'm concerned.
I am a very simple person and I like fantasy & magical stuff so when I see a show or a movie that is about "magic" and "powers" I like it and sometimes I ignore the plot or story and just enjoy it (for example, the percy jackson movies, I enjoy & like because magic & gods and powers are cool!!! However, I also like it when a show or movie has a story, has some (at least one) deep meanings, and if it has magic or powers, that makes it the perfect series for me (like ATLA, HxH, BNHA, The Magicians, etc.). Like you said, all the things the creaters/writers make/create are COOL and AMAZING but they are just concepts. They are a rough draft and need to start reviewing and rewriting to make it a great final draft. (For example, Legend of Korra could have been just as amazing as ATLA but because the writers didn't have an exact "end goal", they tried to do so much but it didn't always succed)
What would be awesome is if each of the Maidens had not only powers, but also personalities and certain characteristics that match their seasons. Let’s start off with Winter. We can take her powers in either one or two ways: go for the obvious and give her straight up ice powers, or subvert the audience’s expectations and go in a completely different direction in terms of her abilities. For sake of argument we’ll go for ice for now. What I think could be an interesting idea would be to build up the Winter Maiden to be cold and unforgiving: basically Salem on a smaller scale. But when Team RWBY track her down, she doesn’t fight them. She welcomes them, saying that she had been expecting them. She proves to be a welcoming and understanding woman, even though she has a hard time properly expressing her emotions as a result of her Maiden Status. This I feel would be an interesting take on the concept of the Winter season: often perceived to be cold and lifeless but holds an immense beauty behind what’s on the surface. This stereotyping is what led to her self inflicted exile: as a result of her Maiden Powers she was highly feared by all. She chose to separate herself from the rest of Remnant, seeing that no matter what she did she had no place there. Next up is Summer. I decided to go with fire powers for her. She’s the exact opposite of the Winter Maiden: Summer is hotheaded and is one to quickly escalate situations and start fights. Summer is a time of year associated with broken promises: touch and go, had fun, next. I can see the Summer Maiden being something of a nomad, travelling all over Remnant and doing as she pleases. She’s liked by all, but also feared by some due to her volatile nature. Then we have Spring. Spring is often a season associated with life and healing, so for the Spring Maiden I think healing abilities would be fitting for her. As for personality, I took a bit of inspiration from Demeter from Greek Mythology. She is naturally very motherly and caring, but a force to be reckoned with when angered. She could be placid like Winter, welcoming Team RWBY with open arms. However, strength wise she pales in comparison to her fellow Maidens. She tries to avoid conflict as much as she can, as she is more than aware that Spring’s place is to heal, not to harm. Finally we have Fall. Much like how Summer and Winter are opposites, it makes sense for her and Spring to be opposites too. Whereas the Spring Maiden possesses the ability to heal, I think an interesting take for Fall would be for her to kill everything she touches. I think Cinder is supposed to be the Fall Maiden, so let’s use that to improve her character. I think a cool trend for the Fall Maiden would be that each one isn’t a monster at her core: she is misunderstood and often looked down at in favour of her fellow Maidens. Cinder could be the same: she wanted to use her powers for good but had no control over the lives she inadvertently ended. As is the nature of Autumn: nothing can escape its cold grasp. She was scolded and ostracised from the people of Remnant, but not before she was burned with a mark of destruction over her eye. Cinder toured Remnant alone, her soul growing colder with each night she spent in exile. She decided that if they wanted the Fall Maiden to be a monster, then she’ll give them one they will never forget. She sets out to find and kill the other Maidens, looking to fulfil the destiny the people of Remnant had forced her to adopt. That the Fall Maidens before her had forced her to adapt to.
They kinda had that in the tale of the four seasons. Winter is when you stay in and reflect, Spring is when you recover and renew, Summer is the time to go out and enjoy life, and Fall is when you look back and be thankful. They could just use those are themes for the respective Maidens' stories and it could become a nice meaningful plot element.
@@tulicloure Fair enough. I haven't seen the show: mainly because it's been nuked from TH-cam. But I know what I need to know about the characters from slipping into the RWBY fandom and piecing information together from what I gathered in conversations.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios I mean, they had that in the "origins story" of the Maidens, but it's never really followed through with the actual Maiden characters. So you're mostly right with what you said, IMO.
I've always been under the impression that the series will culminate with the 4 main protagonists ultimately inheriting the maiden powers, hence why the idea of 4 protagonists was so important in the first place. Ruby as Spring, Yang as Summer, Blake as Fall, and Weiss as Winter.
![[FULL EP.73] เปิดบ้าน 70 ล้าน "แป้ง Zbing" ยกมาทั้งญี่ปุ่น l เคหสถานบานปลาย l One Playground](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YBnJhTt07Pg/mqdefault.jpg)
IT'S ME :D Thank you for having me!
Pleasure to see such creativity at play.
I agree with everything in you're part in this vid
I love the oracle idea!
I love your new idea for the maiden's
where's your fanfic page? I'd read that.
Personally, I would prefer it if we went less of the 'powers of the gods' route, and more of the 'Ozma wanted his daughters back' route.
See, I'm still operating under the idea that they are Ozma's daughters. At least their souls if not their minds.
Like they inherited Ozma's reincarnation ability, but not as fully.
The story is likely just a story, probably one Ozma made up.
@@SapphWolf I actually made another comment earlier about expanding in the idea of the maidens paralleling then daughters, but I’m at work right now and can’t flesh out that post until I get home. If you’re interested in reading my ramblings, you should check back in a couple of hours~
She took THE KIDS!!
@@SapphWolf Twisted idea, what if they did reincarnate with their minds but didn't want to see the families of their reincarnated form upset with them leaving, giving themselves new lives without fear of their real mother.
Agreed. Plus that also works with Salem wanting the maidens under her control
To me the maidens always seemed weird because they all seemed to have the same seasonal powers. What was the point on distinguishing them through seasons if they are literally all the same.
Yeah that's like if they hyped up the Avatar as being the only person in the world capable of bending all 4 elements but every bender in the show could bend the 4 elements.
I feel like they only labeled them with seasons to distinguish who unlocks which relic/vault. But then again if that was the intent they should've just named them the Choice Maiden, the Knowledge Maiden, etc..
yeah the whole thing seems very flawed and confusing. like what's the difference between the maidens besides opening a specific vault?
I thought by that episode with Amber using the maiden's powers that they all had specific powers and Fall's was weather powers. but that went out the window the minute Cinder started blasting fire everywhere!
The Maidens are literally smash bros Echo fighters of each other. I never got why the Maidens didn't have a unique superpower based on their titles. Like Winter is the Maiden of Creation, maybe some dust creation would be neat. Give the Summer Maiden a fucking Hakai, hell even Pokémon regional variants are more unique than these guys!
@@kupaakaleo137 but like... Cinder imbues her outfit with fire dust, alongside it being actual magic... she may have the power to control the winds like Fall, but it’s still pure magic
"No two Summers are alike. But all four seasons are the same." you're not wrong lol
No two summers are alike
RWBY and summer: am I a joke to u?! 😛
@@gracerlampi7605 Don't you mean Ruby and Summer?
@@whatsthemeaningoflife1701 yea
@@gracerlampi7605
Ruby and Summer are basically just ‘ctrl c and ctrl v’. Sorry, it’s just their characters look too alike.
@@gracerlampi7605 At this point, yes.
"Power doesn't corrupt. Power reveals."
Great quote. I always thought the idea of someone going crazy with just power made no sense.
Same
After the Salem/Osma backstory is revealed, MY HEADCANNON, is that the four maiden are actually Salem's and Osma's four daughters. They have inherited their parents' magic, and Osma's ability to reincarnate. Due to dying too young, they never developed a will or a personality of their own to be able to communicate with their 'host'. With each and every reincarnation their personalities fade away and are suppressed by the more powerful hosts, until they are nothing more than power cores without personality operating on pure instinct ingrained in their souls.
They instinctively seek out women hosts (cause they're girls, and have always perceived themselves as such), who are pure of heart... (because that trait is ingrained in children). They cannot aid their host with knowledge or guidance, because they never had any to begin with.
This is why every maiden has to learn their powers from scratch. And since the kids have unbidden potential for magic, just like their parents, what they specialize in depends entirely on the host's skills and preferences.
The legend of the four seasons is just that... a legend born out of the deeds done by those carrying their powers over the centuries.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who entirely believes this theory, 4 kids just seemed too specific.
This is an amazing theory and will be interesting because penny is now a maiden will ozpin see penny as his kid and it will make sense why cinder hates ozpin cause that’s her dad who is against her and her mom I doub the writers will do this cause u know
@@marichatismynameandladynoi1990 This is why FanFics exist! XD
@@jammiebirds same. 4 has always been an important number for the show (4 CCT towers, 4 kingdoms, 4 relics, 4 maidens, teams of 4, etc). Despite RWBY's limited budget and utilitarian nature, they bothered with creating four character models instead of just one or two.
Yea if you rewatch it almost exactly matches the maiden story too, the eldest winter maiden the tallest, and ozma’s tallest daughter had a blue dress and white hair. Aswell as the spring maiden in the remnants story was the shortest of the maiden’s and was green: coincidentally in Osma’s backstory there smallest of the 4 daughters wore a green dress.
Edit: ages were wrong point out by Ice Age, corrected it to only say the part that was true to the remnants story and ozma’s backstory which was height.
“Cinder has the character depth of a puddle”
you’re too kind she has no depth it’s more like a damp paper towel
that's an insult to damp paper towels everywhere.
NOT ANYMORE! HAHAHAHAH.
She's a generic mustache Twirling Villain eh??
She actually has the depth of a water molecule
@@megly146 What even is water at the point? Is it wet or is it even real? Will Cinder ever have anything Interesting to say or will she fake out die again? The world may never know
"There's a lot you could do with ___, but they didn't do anything" Summarizes RWBY's writing.
Underrated comment
The maidens sound like an idea the writers had and monty said: maidens don’t follow the rule of cool. I also feel this happened with the two brothers creation. Trashed ideas by monty that they brought but because the writers thought they were cool while Monty was like: eh, they’re not
@@bryana.escaleralopez Hard to say. Some reports say Monty was mostly hands-off and just let Miles and Kerry do their thing, but it's also been said that he meddled a bit with who/what showed up.
I legit got teary eyed at the part w/ Freia being a writer who never got to finish her work and Penny being a heavily invested fan. 😭 that’s such a great idea, esp as it feeds into the history of Atlas In suppressing creative ideas And exploration of art like they did during the Great War. 🦄🏳️🌈
Although the show kind of gave the impression she was an artist with her paintings and such which can also be just as inspiring.
David Miller only if it went anywhere
And it makes for such a personal connection between two characters.
It feels like....
They Purchased a shiny new car..... but theres no wheels on it.... and the trunk is full of groceries that are going bad
Loool
Guess they gotta get out and push then
@Static Gaming Pretty much
The statement of Relics being more important then the maidens rings so true. In the series, Maidens are treated not as ultimate badasses who wield legit magic but mere keys to unlock potential doomsday puzzle pieces.
Cuz thats what they are story telling wise.
@@derrickdaniels3955 Ya, and I as well as others are saying they're poorly written if that's all they are.
They're not even really representations of the four seasons or individualistic as their name sakes would imply, or that they're really "special" in terms of power or presence as their origins imply, given how there's been little to no differentiation between dust, semblance and the supposed "actual magic" the four maidens can use, and how dispite Cinder or even the previous Fall Maiden having the "amazing power of magic" were beaten, rather easily in some cases, by normal people/huntsman.
They're really just four keys that just happen to be power humans that unlock specific locks because they were supposed to individualized but the weren't written as such.
Given what the Maidens were written as and how they're actually written, it comes off as poor because they obviously could have been do much more when they are so much less. Legit, it's to the point where actual keys could have replaced the four maidens and there would have been little difference storywise.
@@WyseWalker Absolutely, the maidens are like Captain Marvel in the MCU like you're here,you exist....why?
@@derrickdaniels3955 I think one of the annoying aspects of the Maiden powers is that their magic is functionally indistinguishable from Semblances. The entire concept of magic in the show is confusing as hell. We've got a girl with flower-themed superspeed, someone that can control ice and summon monsters, someone who can absorb and redirect lightning, yet somehow Qrow and Raven being able to turn into birds is a shocking twist reveal and the Maidens are special............why? People want their power for some reason? For fuck's sake Glynda is practically telekinetic but I'm supposed to be awed because a lady can shoot fire?
@@ButterflyScarlet Its weird yes, you're right.
First time we see an all powerful maiden, she gets her ass kicked. It was kind of disappointing considering OZ hyped up the maidens the episode before.
To be fair, Glynda made it VERY clear in that same episode that, even with all the maidens' power, they were still consistently targeted to the point that people with less-than-noble intentions would get ahold of their powers with frightening success.
@@Canido19 I take your point on-board
@@goddesssalem4842 Thanks
I feel like this could have been remedied by asserting that this particular maiden was inexperienced or had very little control, which would still make the power itself formidable while avoiding cheapening it with the exchange. This might have also played to the lore, and given evidence of the hunting of the maidens.
I don’t know what your talking about but the first time we saw an ALL POWERFUL maiden, who was fully realized, was Frieda. Frieda didn’t even give Cinder the CHANCE to touch her, so I ask, what are you talking about? Raven? Because she isn’t an all powerful maiden. Is she strong? Very. But so is cinder. You could reason they’ve had their powers (or part of them in Cinder’s case) for a similar amount of time, which would make sense as to why their fight was so close. Or are you talking about Amber? Because she was a new maiden when she was surprise attacked by THREE professional killers in the middle of nowhere.
"The powers of the seasons" = They can all fly and have fiery eyes and can make wind and fire blasts
The maiden power transversal kinda reminds me of the lantern Corps from DC comics like when the original wearer of the ring dies, the lantern's ring goes off to find whoever is worthy, except the maiden are conceptually weaker by theme and purpose. Each lantern represents something, Red (rage), Orange (greed), Black (death), White (life), Indigo (compassion), Blue (hope), Violet (love), Yellow (fear), and green (will power). Which speaks for the character and what they're personalities are like, but for the maidens the only thing that matters is what gender and age you are. It would have been more interesting if each maiden personality represent the season their supposedly based around.
Ikr it would be nice if the maidens had individual powers as they did in the side story of the original maidens. Fire,Earth,Water and Air. Maybe similar ideals from avatar where Summer(fire) Finds power and aggression as the best while Winter(water) thinks change whether its the environment or yourself to be the best. Fall(air) thinking freedom is the best and spring (Earth) thinking stability is the best. When I say the best I mean in terms of Ideals and beliefs.
@@swagachugaming7677 And it be interesting if penny got the spring since in the WOR we saw her use plant manipulation or at least something to that variety, it would have been a clever nod To her origins. But they quickly dropped that idea and settled with the avatar mix with storm from the x men. And they're not even that special considering the fact that dust & semblances are a thing, Weiss is particularly a maiden if she has the right amount dust at her disposal.
@@noctisastrum7495 that would of been so interesting omg. CRwby needs to sit and talk about what they are doing wrong smh.
@@swagachugaming7677 when rwby is over they definitely need that fma brotherhood treatment
I know right? Imagine if the maiden powers were drawn to those whose personalities matched the nature of the seasons. And that once you became a maiden those traits would get amplified. It would be interesting to see a winter maiden struggle to be cool and collected, soft-spoken and patient rather than cold and apathetic, silent and listless. You could even have these attitudes play into certain traits that aren't emotional per say, but more like habits. Maybe spring maidens tend to be mothers who pass the Maidenhood Matrilinealy. Maybe summer maidens tend to fall in and out of love quickly and deeply due to them being passionate but fickle, never really settling down. And sometimes having children, but only on accident. Fall maidens could have stable relationships but not want any kids. Preferring to take on apprentices and watch the fruits of their labor pay off as the apprentice becomes the master and succesor (kinda tying into fall being start of school term, though admittedly different parts of the world start school during seasons other than fall). And winter maidens could have a tendency to be reserved, struggling to show warmth and affection, and also be celibate. This way the maidens could represent their seasons, and also different approaches to womanhood. Sure spring would be your stereotypical nuclear family, but even then it would be a matriarchy. Summer would basically go through lovers like candy and never intentionally have kids. Fall would have good relationships but show that even more grounded, warm women don't necessarily want kids. And winter could represent how some women don't even want a partner or sex in general, neither needing love nor lust. And again, no kids. Also, this would tie into how the day/night cycles are in seasons. Spring and fall have almost equal time between day and night, with the spring and fall equinox being perfectly equal. And the spring and fall maidens tend to pass down their maiden powers, through springs children or falls students. And summer and winter have increasingly skewed day/night times with the summer and winter solstice being the longest/shortest days of the year respectively. And sure enough, both summer and winter maidens are chosen solely by the power rather than being influenced by the previous holder.
Real Talk: Monty just wanted to make a fun action anime style cartoon that introduced and used ideas as he came up with them in a way that would allow it to continue as he liked...and the way Miles and Kerry run the show it's kind of just a generic fantasy hollywood ass macguffin story where elements exist to try and fill out the world, whether they are contradictory or not, and then don't think about the wider implications because they also want to push the story without a specific ending in mind...yet following the beats of a story that NEEDS and has a planned Ending when it very clearly doesn't.
Despite Monty not really being a writer or shakespear by any means. He at least knows alot on how to create a world and amazingly fun characters. I feel like he was a better editor of the writing then an actual writer. Mile's and Kerry's thing is they took everything Monty put so much heart into and just change yeet alot of great and interesting ideas and throw them out the window. Making a half baked and souless world and story with barely much explanaition and plot holes. Like there's alot of pontential that they just said screw it just put something and bam sell.
@@ultraoverloadx9333 Wrong
Monty literally told miles and kerry to watch specific anime to take plot ideas and understanding from them
and he never had any issue with how they wrote or did the job
he would constantly introduce new characters he designed and left it to Miles and Kerry to give them character and or write them up
and he also left them to create and or fill in the main story, only having come up with broad concepts that he left to others to fulfill because he either couldn’t do it himself or was too busy with the animation to bother with it.
@@mckenzie.latham91 Fair point
@@ultraoverloadx9333 Monty never wrote a story before, he only wanted to do action scenes. Miles and the other writter used to be responsable for connecting the action scenes Month created in a coeherent story, but no one truly planed the story while writting.
@@enzojose4001 That first part I know but he just seemed like from what I heard he did gave some suggestions to the writers on his vision. Which is what I mean by editor not that he edits the writing or anything.
When the maiden powers were first introduced, I’d thought we’d get to see team rwby slowly collect them over time. Four seasonal/elemental powers for four different girls, and all that. It would have been fun to see the adventures team rwby would have to go on in order to get them, with lots of room for character growth and action. Watching them struggle with the near godly power they now have and the implications of that. Say, Ruby finally gets the fall powers back from Cinder (is dying involved? I don’t know, maybe rework the power transferral too) and now Ruby has the powers that she saw Pyrrha *die* from and get nightmares over it and is too scared to use the fall powers because she might hurt someone she cares about. I don’t know, I was hoping for more, ya know
I wrote a comment detailing my personal interpretations of what the Maidens’ personalities should be like. If you’d let me, may I expand on this idea?
Weiss should definitely become the next Winter Maiden, not Penny. While Penny is a lovely character and I like her, she doesn’t feel... _right?_ Like, I think Weiss’ personality is more akin to what people associate with the winter season than Penny’s. She can be cold and hard to break through to sometimes, but there’s a hidden beauty under her icy exterior. She has her own unique warmth, despite her appearance.
Yang should be Summer. In my comment, I mentioned how Summer could be a hotheaded and stubborn person, often wanting to do her own thing and shirking her Maiden responsibilities that were dumped on her against her will. This I feel corresponds with Yang. She can be flighty and hotheaded (for flip’s sake her Semblance LITERALLY sets her head on fire), and the responsibility of looking after Ruby was dumped on her much like how the Summer Maiden’s powers are just dumped on it’s new chosen. It would be cool to see her connect with the Summer Maiden, and learn that while fate can be a b***h sometimes you have to move on and keep going.
Ruby would be fitting for Spring. The Spring Maiden idea I had takes inspiration from Demeter from Greek Mythology. She represents life and the love and respect for it. Ruby deeply cares about those around her and tries to preserve their lives as much as she can. It would be nice to see her get mentoring from Spring about her Silver Eyes and how it’s the physical manifestation of the passion she feels for those around her.
Finally we have Blake. For my version of Cinder I had her inherit the Fall Maiden’s ability to cause everything living thing she touches to wither and die, but she wanted to use it for good. However, she was incapable of doing so, as is the finite nature of Autumn. She was exiled, burned with a mark on her eye to show her status as a monster. That’s why she’s so cold and spiteful: her soul grew colder with each night she spent roaming Remnant alone. Fall is often misunderstood: seen as the season of endings and never for the beauty it holds. This I feel could work with Blake: a Faunus, forever shunned by the world around her for what she is on the outside and not what’s on the inside. A kind and gentle soul, forever perceived as a monster with no heart. When she inherits the Fall Maiden’s ability, she panics. She worries she will turn out like Cinder did. However, she channels that fear. She decides rather than fighting her new destiny, she should try and cooperate with the new and drastic change. Blake learns to activate and deactivate her Maiden ability, as she embraced the change that is synonymous with her season.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios Please, expand away! I love seeing people’s ideas on story improvements!
While it is quite an engrossing pitch for the story, I'm fine with team RWBY not becoming the maidens. I'd like a story that's shifts the main protagonist focus not to the chosen one, but to the protectors of said chosen ones.
@@sekimeikai3332 same!
Having team RWBY become the maidens is such a cliche idea tbh
Yknow, the "all the maidens have the same powers" thing always really gets me, personally. It falls into "what do the maidens represent", but like, what was even the POINT of the seasonal theming if you're not gonna do anything with it? Especially since part of Salem's plan seems to be shoving all the maiden powers into Cinder. Like, to what end? To unlock the relics?? She doesn't need to stuff Cinder with maiden powers to do that. Do maiden powers stack? They don't seem to be stackable. It would make more sense each maiden power was unique with no overlap- maybe have each one represent a single element, or aspect of magic- and Salem was planning on turning Cinder into the ubermaiden with All The Powers. As it stands, there's no reason for them to be seasons at all- aside from the fact that there are four seasons and four maidens.
They could do more w/ the maidens. I just see it as "Aren't the maiden's just 4 women who can use magic?", They seem fairly basic due to the fact that it's just 4 People who have the same skill that used to be common before the gods cleared the board. Salem already had magic and is fully capable of using it if I'm not mistaken? I feel the maiden's are just meant to be a stronger force against salem.
Salems not a maiden, she a magic user and 4 times more powerful than any maiden. The maidens are just Ozma split magic that he gave away
Good points, both of you! Really makes Salem all the more scary imo. Though shed be way more than 4 times as strong cuz Oz kept a lot of magic if you think about it (the vaults, cane and stuff)
@@ravenfox247 Salem in a league of her own when it comes to a fight, there is nobody on remnent who can challenge her. Maybe Ruby's eyes will have an affect , but it won't destroy an immortal being.
@@donone352 I wasn't saying she was a maiden, sorry if i didn't make that clear. I was just commenting on how unremarkable the maiden's are as a whole. I mean even w/ full power Ozma couldn't hold a candle to salem's magical powers.
@@Tkoonce he incinerated salem, she o ly won dou to her immortality she is less powerful than full power ozma.
Cinder Fall holding Fall Maiden powers connected to relic of choice. She can develop as fully realised maiden and obtain that crown, instead she felt insecure hunting for more maiden powers 😭
I always thought Cinder had the powers of the summer maiden (since fire and all) but to be fair, I also stopped watching after season three.
@@shy8311 well fall maiden powers kinda connect to her last name dunno if that was intentional but hey cinder fall ......
@@scarletrose8766 Yeah I mean the name makes sense for fall powers but for some reason I think the fire powers just confused me XD Cause in summer its hot and all so fire would make sense. Idk XD
@@shy8311 yeah but its a thing I believe cinder also used ice powers too to freeze raven
@@scarletrose8766 yeah tbh I actually dont really care that much since I dont really watch rwby anymore after everything that happend. I just try to catch up a little from time to time to see how the show is going now.
Imagine, just imagine, if before Cinder kills Pyrrha, the Fall Maiden powers that were stolen transfer to Pyrrha in that moment because of her struggle with Choice and her eventual Choice to fight a hopeless battle in the hopes that her sacrifice would mean something. Cinder loses the power she so desperately coveted because her Choices were shallow, short-sighted, and derivative while Pyrrha's Choice was noble and individualistic.
Imagine, just imagine, if Raven received the powers, not because she also lowkey highkey stole them, but because the powers resonated with her resolve to not take any information she receives at face value. For her drive to seek out the Knowledge of the world and the puppeteers pulling strings from behind the scenes. Since the former Spring Maiden, who did not the powers in the first place, lost touch with her desire for knowledge, escaped her duties, and tunneled herself further into ignorance, the moment she comes across Raven, the powers spring forth (pun intended) from her body and transfer to Raven, because her desire for Knowledge was stronger. Not only would that scenario make Raven's schpeel to Yang about questioning what people tell her less of a monotonous monologue by a parent lecturing a child about shit the child already knows, but by making the transfer of powers spontaneous instead of intentional on Raven's part, it gives her character depth and the choices she makes in the story more practicality.
Imagine, just imagine, if the plan to launch Amity Colloseum into the atmosphere as a communication satellite was PENNY'S idea, not Pietro's or Ironwood's, PENNY'S. The Creation of someone else exploring what it means to be human while everyone else helps her realize her ambition of Creating something that will help people across Remnant. Her display of ingenuity, self-awareness, compassion, and Creativity is what causes the powers to become hers in the season finale.
Little plot changes here and there could've been all the difference in giving the Maidens more agency to the story and overall significance thematically.
This sounds really cool O:
#REMN
WRITE IT!
I COULD HELP?
XD
That's so well put together it's almost maddening it's not canon. I also like to think that part of Raven's sorry should be that she has all the knowledge about Salem/Oz/the relics, which is what informs her choice to abandon it all. It'd work great with the buildup in v6 about Oz keeping secrets; he kept things from STRQ too, and Raven learning the truth (through the first question) leads to her decision to leave Oz/her team.
Well you know what they say, hindsight is 20/20
Nah, see the problem is that's good writing. We can't have that here, no sir.
I mean, Watts said it himself in V5:
“The Maidens are merely a means to an end.”
I would recommend checking out the Kyoshi books, Thomas. Really paints Kuruk in a new light.
Yeah but now because of it I really don't like Yangchen
My main problem with the the Maidens is something that actually ties into another fundamental flaw that RWBY has had since the first season:It does a very poor job at explaining the limitations/rules/nuances of Dust,Aura,and Semblances(and when it does,it gets retconned.) and because of that,it has knockoff effects when Magic is introduced.
When the Maidens come into the picture,the show obviously wants us to see Maidens as this powerful,mysterious,OOC(out-of-context) force that flips the established rules on it's head. The only problem with that? By the time the concept of Maidens is introduced,the show has done such a shit job at establishing the magic systems it had to begin with that there's no real distinction between Dust/Aura/Semblances. Because the show lacked solid baseline from which deviations could be made the purpose of the Maidens is muddled instantly.
At this point,we've seen so many Semblances do so many things,that when it's revealed that Maidens have elemental control,it comes off as not only underwhelming,but it confused people into wondering what the Maidens were actually about.
Can anyone honestly tell me that what we see the Maidens do is more esoteric than what we've seen out of Semblances? Weiss's allows her to speed up time,slow it down,and buff others. It's a mini magic system in and of itself. And maybe Weiss's is a weird case,but Ruby can turn into rose petals on command, and Blake can turn into afterimages. And on the villain side,Emerald can straight up do illusions and Merc's father can fucking steal a Semblance permanently.
I think something has gone wrong if people thought at first that Qrow's Semblance was him shifting into a bird, rather than the bad luck And the writers had to confirm that the later was the case.
It also doesn't help that what little narrative purpose the Maidens had to begin with(being a symbol of the Ancient past) was taken when the Relics entered the picture.
I'd actually argue it's not that they didn't define the powers well enough and more that the maidens aren't powerful enough given their description. The other power sources are actually pretty well defined.
Dust, elemental energy in crystal or powder form. When activated it produces that element and can be manipulated to an extent by human will.
Aura: The protective life energy created by a soul. Once unlocked it automatically protects the person from harm until the energy runs out. It can be used activate dust and power semblances.
Semblance: a single magic power unique to the user. (Usually) It's named as such because it is a semblance of the original magic power people once wielded.
The Maidens, in contrast, are supposed to have true magic power, which should be basically the power to do anything a semblance can do. They should practically be gods. Beyond commanding the elements they should be teleporting wherever they want, leaving after images all over the place, and opening up portals and turning into different animals. They should only be limited by their imaginations. That would fit with how they are described.
Course, if they went this route then they could never give any of the main cast (including major side characters like Cinder and Penny) these powers because then almost nothing could stop them save maybe the Silver Eyes.
This is also one of the very few problems I have withthe show. Weiss' glyphs enable her to utilize dust into versatile forms. Shoot fireballs, icicles, summon giant chunks of ice from the ground, conjure firewalls, unleash strong torrents of wind, and giant chunks of rock (in V6). In a way she's basically a makeshift maiden.
Weiss' abilities may be held down by the limitations of limited dust supply and aura reserves, but technically her skillset is more varied than the average maiden. She can summon Grimm, create magical trampolines, conjure hard light barriers, manipulate gravity and dilate time - abilities that maidens can't do even without the limitations of aura and dust. I am almost convinced that if Weiss is paired up with the rest of her team, they could defeat a fairly newbie maiden
Aurora Echoes and like that you've sparked my interest in writing a story with maidens abel to do the stuff you just put down like proper Magic but I'm bad at writing so not sure I could do it any form of justice
@@nighthork9944 I feel your pain and I share it.
Aurora Echoes thanks man iv already started writing the draft up for the story
Who in the hell thought it was a good idea to make the maiden powers identical
I agree, the Maidens should JUST have powers that apply only to their season. Spring with nature and plants, Summer with fire and heat, Winter with cold, snow and ice. And Fall with wind and storms
"She killed the neighbor, but the bitch had it coming."
In regards to the part with the relics: the usage of McGuffins and plots around them, are not inherently bad. Overly Sarcastic Productions explained that in a trope talk. Just wanted to say that.
I feel like the Magic of the maidens should have something to do with their relic. Like Creation,they could have very strong healing powers,ressurection,growing plants and all around life and abundance. Destruction could have the opposite,killing people or draining them,destructive energy like fire or lightning. Knowledge could be things like having precognition or divination and even being able to scry on people or see into the past. Choice,that one would be hard and i feel like its the most random out of all the relics because you can do alot with the others,but choice i have no idea
I feel like if they had put more thought into the relic idea,or maidens,they could have tried to give something alittle more tangable,especially if this is magic
Choice could be like a type of mind control of sorts. You give someone "choices" and they need to follow them to a tea and they cannot refuse by any means or stay silent.
For instance "flee or kill your friends" in a dire situation that you can't have the luxury of just leaving a mission behind.
@@iceage951 yeah i was kinda thinking something similar to that but rather than straight on "brain control" it would "emotion boosts". For example, if somebody is acting wild or crazy, they could send "calm vibes" to them or if somebody is afraid or cowardly, send them "brave vibes" making them "temporarily" brave and courangeous.
or maybe have the power to "change the future/present". yeah they can do that with their actions but like lets say somebody had died like 5 minutes ago, the choice maiden would have the power to "cchange" the present/past/future by making the person not die or not get killed in the first place (i am not sure if that makes sense)
Choice could also be probability manipulation. A maiden of choice can influence circumstances affecting one's actions. They can also shift outcomes resulting from said action.
So basically Qrow and Clover semblances combined, on steroids, and the maiden can control it. They can also affect nature, but it has to be realistic (like Marble Phantasms in Nasuverse).
It also affects the user themselves. Kinda giving them ultra instinct, the ability to move, act, or otherwise make the best possible decision without hesitation (hence being decisive).
Knowledge could be clairvoyance as y'all said. Having farsight, but I'll also add a far-(insert every other sense here). It can also nullify illusory semblances like Emerald's and Neo's and other negatively affecting, mind altering semblances by giving "clarity". It also gives one the ability to acquire knowledge (any and all kinds) from other people by reading their minds and memories and "storing the information" into themselves.
Conceptually, creation could not only build things on a physical level (like objects) but on a metaphysical level like a mighty empire, forge strong alliances and bonds, give someone powers or enhance acts that involve building in some way. Like construction or even the continuation of life itself.
Destruction can also be used in more esoteric ways like cancelling semblances and depleting aura or severing friendships and inducing strife and war, remove one's inhibition or erase one's memories. It can also be used for purification. Curing diseases and ailments, remove obstacles (both physical and metaphysical), and purge trauma and negative emotions.
The Four Maidens aren't the powers of Salem's and Oz's children?
in the photo from the wiki Ozma and Salem's Daughters are dressed accordingly to each season.
I assume that the maidens are their daughters reincarnated in some form.
I disagree , I believe they are
same
@@MegaJohnny74 Those 4 girl are clearly the maidens, they have Oz and Salem's magic and Ozpin ability to reincarnate. Oz and salems daughters are the original 4 maidens, the wizard story was made up my OZ to hide the truth
@Mystic Digi And the wizard story is head canon too, because we all know OZ is full of shit
The actual answer is, who the fuck knows? I honestly doubt there's an actual explanation other than the writers thought that it would seem like a cool tie in.
Still don’t know how they distinguish each maiden from each other visually
Because it’s not by ability (because each maiden has access to all elemental powers for some reason)
And it’s not by color of the eye flame (bc that’s tied to aura color)
So like how do they know which maiden is which??? Like we only know these things because the show tells us. Does each individual maiden just know which one they are automatically?? When they find a maiden do they have to shuffle them around to each door to find out? Does this bug me beyond belief? Yes
@@StarPichu12 I mean I guess
But from a design(?) standpoint it’s always bothered me that we as an audience have no way to determine who a maiden is based on ability or reoccurring visual motif, the show has to blatantly tell us other wise we would have no freakin clue.
Yeah that's kinda what sucks about the maidens being so fucking similar. If we didn't get outright told or learn them one by one we'd have next to no indication. At the very least freyja has her etymology and design hinting at it but that's it. Even the names are confusing because Summer Rose and Winter Schnee aren't maidens yet Cinder Fall is a maiden.
Why tf did they give the SPRING Maiden ICE powers!?!?
@@firewolfandrewb honestly the spring maiden (like every maiden) has access to all elemental abilities so presumedly Raven is only wielding ice abilities to counter Cinders flames
Which makes sense, but it all kinda just wraps back around to “why can all maidens use any element at any given time”
I wonder if the Maiden concept had been there from the start team RWBY would have been the new Maidens, or the next four chosen to be Maidens.
I also feel like the Maidens would be better if the Gods had created them instead of Oz, giving them a closer link to magic and maybe more purpose.
Yeah I like that.Having them be created by the Gods makes them way closer to the mysterious force of nature that the show wants us to believe they are.
I always felt the RWBY girls were perfect candidates for the maiden powers. Their journeys could have been geared toward gaining each relic's representation. Like Yang needing wisdom and experience to become the Spring Maiden or Weiss becoming more geared toward creating her own path instead of being just another Schnee to become the Winter Maiden. They could have gone somewhere with this and my hopeless fingers crossed they still do in the finale or something.
The maidens story and the story of the relics don’t sync up at all.
Just my opinion.
All the maidens are just there to unlock vaults and that’s it.
Also yeah the fact that ANYONE can use the relics really hurts a certain part of the importance in the shows lore.
Cause when you think about the vaults don’t being a thing in the lore also don’t make sense when you really think about all that has been shown and told to us.
Also when you think about why the relics need to brought together and even if this was not to case why do the maidens need powers to wield and fight with at all?
I think that's the big thing isn't it? It's not so much that there's just so much happening at once, but the fact that their is a severe lack of connection and purpose.
That's actually a really good point, props to you. Why do the maiden powers even need magic or powers if they're just glorified key holes. No rando on the street is going to go after a maiden who just unlocks a door if that's all they did. In fact it'd be more interesting if that's all they did and it was explored how their life was effectively decided for them as an emergency button or designed to do menial tasks for men.
I think the maidens are supposed be a deconstruction of the mythical magical girl trope. From the moment we meet Amber, it’s clear that having incredible power just makes them a target. Having the power go to the last person you think of sounds whimsical... before you realize that someone could theoretically take the power just by thoroughly torturing a Maiden before death. Or it could be whoever the power goes to turns out to be selfish jerk who doesn’t care about the world like Raven. Then there’s just the chaos and difficulty with the fact that the power only transfers upon death, so a Maiden with an ailing body and mind like Freya is kind of impossible to plan around, and becomes a burden to everyone’s peace of mind (Sort of like lifetime judge appointments...).
Even when Pyrrha was first brought in on the secret, Qrow brings up that’s a stupid system for keeping the world safe. So while I think it serves a thematic purpose, I’m still frustrated by the plot and in-character actions that surround it. It’s not clear at all why Ozpin thought any of this was a good idea. He gave up his magic power, the last in the world, to let it bounce around unsupervised around the planet? If the idea was he wanted to empower humans to act independently, why does he lead a secret society dedicated to selecting and controlling these Maidens? Not that we know how much of that fairy tale video is even true. Even the stuff he told his own inner circle can’t be trusted.
I'm fairly certain that there is nothing special thematically happening with the maidens, and especially nothing nearly as complex as a deconstruction(at least not on purpose if it is the case). In fact, the writers seem to be afraid of involving the maidens in any situation where they can actually be effective. Amber got absolutely embarrassed by Cinder and her team, we never saw the previous spring maiden, Raven only got to fight Cinder and quickly catapulted herself back out of the plot, and Freya got all of a few seconds to show off her mastery of the maiden powers before she passed them to an inexperienced Penny.
In reply to your second paragraph, it seems that the maiden system was just made up to give the story more room for growth beyond beacon's fall, which seemed like a good plan, but it came at the expense of Ozpin's logic and reasoning. Unfortunately that potential for the maidens to really be an important or revered force in the world is pretty much gone at this point, so now we just have Ozpin looking dumb and the maidens looking way too weak as magic wielders. I feel like making the maidens well known and respected figures rather than obscure travelers would have done the story well.
@@jdavis8373 A major theme of RWBY is questioning whether the students are being used as exploitable pawns so that would fit well with the any honor and prestige behind the maidens actually being a lie. That's why Weiss had that conversation with Winter about her being manipulated in V7. Or do you remember the ending verse of Time to Say Goodbye? "Were we born to fight and die?
Sacrificed for one huge lie?"
@@jiado6893 The problem is that conversation, to be frank, wasn’t well written. Like Weiss assumes that Ironwood planned this all along during Winter’s military career but we aren’t even given an indication that’s the case and Winter herself says that he told her relatively recently. And Winter was given the choice to accept the opportunity and is completely willing to do it, nothing shown has ever implied that he manipulated her into anything.
One of my biggest questions is "Why do the Maidens have to die when the power is transferred, even if the Maiden is young?"
I think that they were trying to make the idea of the maidens more interesting through the tension with Ironwood and Winter trying to manipulate the Winter maiden power. With the powers choosing Penny both rejecting Winters and Ironwoods belief in turning them into living weapons and asserting her humanity. That being said it never is really given anytime to grow.
Also like, Cinder collecting the powers like Pokémon is really dumb.
"So as every good fanfic writer know, the best thing to do when you disagree with canon is to take what's there and go 'fuck it, this is mine now'."
I mean... you're not wrong.
This concept of passed down powers has been shown within My Hero Academia with the power of One for all as it improves what it can do with each user that the predecessors select to inherit One for all I feel as though the presentation is handled very well where the users don’t just Willy nilly master the powers and instead have to slowly learn how to the powers work otherwise damage themselves by trying to use it all right off the bat
After watching your video I thought of each Seasonal Maidens not only having elemental magic but, powers that represent the relics in some way.
Spring Maiden: Ability to replicate and even combine any semblances the user has encountered before. However, excessive use of power can be taxing to the mind to the point it can cause damages to the mind.
Summer Maiden: Ability to negate any magic or magic-like phenomena such as Aura, Semblances, Dust temporarily as long as ability is in use also, capable of disabling Grimm temporarily but, does not destroy them. However, the power also negates user's own magic and any magic-like capabilities they posess as well as having no control on what the power affects similar to Qrow's semblance. Another limitation is that using this power on a Dust powered transport may lead to your demise.
Fall Maiden: Ability to alter the fate of user, their allies or Enemies once per day such that the user or anyone else can be subjected to an event good or bad even cheating death. However, by altering someone's or their own fate will result in unintended opposite alteration of either the user or the people around them.
Winter Maiden: Ability to manifast thoughts and imagination in real life such that they can create objects or even constructs by simply thinking about it while using the power. However, each use of this power consumes part of your lifeforce to bring these creations to life.
But, what do you guys think? Should the Maidens have received such powers alongside their elemental magic or do you have different powers in mind? Also do you think the powers are a little rough on the edges?
I think the maidens would be more important if they were the only ones able to use the relic
This was an amazing video! And YES!!! I've always had major issues with the maidens ever since Raven vs Cinder. First thing is, I completely understand that the only reason the maiden's were included in the specific, weird way they were was because Monty passed and that was the most recent idea he came up with. However, I dare say that out of all the things they had to cut since his passing... I feel like the Maidens should have either been cut, or at least massively reworked.
I feel like all the maidens having the same avatar powers was some... weird, backwards attempt at being original like "haha! You thought this was gonna be Shaolin Showdown!? But it was I, the Smash Clone!" But in the end it just made the Maidens more... boring.
In my opinion assuming that going any deeper with the maidens would have screwed with the limited time the show has *cough* castbloat *cough*, I think that instead of giving the maidens powers, instead have them literally just be keys. They are keys to each of the vaults, and they literally have nothing to defend themselves but their own skill, which makes the burden of being a maiden all the more terrifying. On top of that it would fix the fact that RWBY already has three magic systems (Aura, Semblance, Dust) and now we don't have to worry about a fourth one.
Also for future videos, I would love to see you tackle the topic of the show's cast-bloat. Cause as much as I love them, Ren and Nora have to go.
My main problem with the the Maidens is something that actually ties into another fundamental flaw that RWBY has had since the first season:It does a very poor job at explaining the limitations/rules/nuances of Dust,Aura,and Semblances(and when it does,it gets retconned.) and because of that,it has knockoff effects when Magic is introduced.
When the Maidens come into the picture,the show obviously wants us to see Maidens as this powerful,mysterious,OOC(out-of-context) force that flips the established rules on it's head. The only problem with that? By the time the concept of Maidens is introduced,the show has done such a shit job at establishing the magic systems it had to begin with that there's no real distinction between Dust/Aura/Semblances. Because the show lacked solid baseline from which deviations could be made the purpose of the Maidens is muddled instantly.
At this point,we've seen so many Semblances do so many things,that when it's revealed that Maidens have elemental control,it comes off as not only underwhelming,but it confused people into wondering what the Maidens were actually about.
Can anyone honestly tell me that what we see the Maidens do is more esoteric than what we've seen out of Semblances? Weiss's allows her to speed up time,slow it down,and buff others. It's a mini magic system in and of itself. And maybe Weiss's is a weird case,but Ruby can turn into rose petals on command, and Blake can turn into afterimages. And on the villain side,Emerald can straight up do illusions and Merc's father can fucking steal a Semblance permanently.
I think something has gone wrong if people thought at first that Qrow's Semblance was him shifting into a bird, rather than the bad luck And the writers had to confirm that the later was the case.
It also doesn't help that what little narrative purpose the Maidens had to begin with(being a symbol of the Ancient past) was taken when the Relics entered the picture.
Really love the thematic overhaul you gave to Penny’s arc. It really needed that kind of oomph to it.
I have a take that’ll probably be ignored or be too flawed to work if we had the opportunity to change it.
To make it more unique:
The Fall And Winter Maidens are Female
The Spring and Summer Maidens are Male since it’s the opposite gender it would be:
Fall and Winter Maiden
&
Summer and Spring Bachelor
So best way to generalize them is to call them the Seasonal Acolytes
Only those of the same gender can take up those positions
I chose this cause i want it to be a Sun and Moon contrast, The Moon represents Femininity and is Female and the Sun represents Masculinity and is Male.
Abilities:
Summer: All fire and heat based powers including plasma too
Spring: Any and all Nature or Earth related powers
Fall: All Weather based powers including the Air itself
Winter: All Water, Ice, and cold based powers
Magic: It’s magic in nature and they each have a source of magical energy to use these powers and convert said magical energy into the their respective energy of their seasons but it recharges like Mana meaning they can either tire themselves out or overuse it and need time to use these powers again and the amount of magical energy depends on the user and training.
Limitation: They can only generate energy through the magic energy, like summer can only generate his own energy like plasma, electricity, heat and flames through converting their magical energy into it or for the Winter Maiden cold energy, they can’t convert the magical energy into matter like ice so winter would have to use cold energy and temperatures to make the ice appear instead or rocks and plants for spring they’d have to use its energy to manipulate Nature and Earth instead producing it from the magical energy since its matter. And not to mention the Acolytes are less powerful when they’re using their magical powers during the opposite season, summer is less powerful in winter, and vice versa, and fall is less powerful in spring, and vice versa.
Emotional/Conceptual Aspect:
Winter-
Winter embodies Despair, the pain of the world, meaning being the winter maiden means you are, have or will have some form of emotional pain and despair to embody being the Winter Maiden, taking the despair of the world upon yourself to keep it from spreading.
Fall-
Fall embodies the connection between the world and its history, basically Nostalgia, using the past of not just themselves but the world around them to keep it from making the same mistakes again.
Spring-
Spring embodies Hope, hope for the future, keeping all minds set on how to get through the paths laid out to lead to a better tomorrow.
Summer-
Summer embodies Passion, all the strongest emotions of the world itself, the weakest emotion one could feel is the one that the user least feels the most passion for, so it can very from the most passionate feeling being love for the world and embodying all the love within it and happiness, to anger and hatred, all it takes is passion on an emotion to fuel the flame of the Summer Bachelor which is what makes them the one with the most raw power.
Events:
Minor:
The Summer and Winter Acolytes are stronger during their respective time, Summer during High Noon and from comets and Winter during Midnight or during a blood moon, the blood moon and comet only come in every so years but they have their enhancements from a full moon and high noon everyday but only during that hour
Spring and Fall can be enhanced 24/7 by their respective season unlike summer and winter since they embody their major seasons far more so they can only be enhanced in smaller ways, but once their respective season is over Spring and Fall would have to wait till their seasons are active again to have this constant enhancement 24/7 while Summer and Winter would only have an hour but only need to wait till the next day.
Major:
During a solar eclipse the moon and sun symbolically becomes one meaning all Acolytes are at the most powerful state and fuse as a gender less entity of the seasons making them the Eclipse, the avatar of the world itself, Capable of even being the bridge between the world and afterlife and manipulate souls and its energy(Aura), but it’s dangerous to be in this form if there’s powerful threats due to danger of the cycle of the seasonal acolytes ending if they die in this form making it their strongest and most vulnerable form at the same time
Sorry this isn’t as neatly put together as it could but i hope y’all liked this concept
The Maiden kinda are linked to their respective relics thematically.
Pyrrha having to make the choice between becoming the next Spring Maiden or not.
How the knowledge Raven got from Ozpin's secrets drove her away from her family and loved ones.
Penny, since she was a robot, being a creation of Atlas' advanced engineering.
Though I guess they mostly came to be when they realised that since the bad guys already had control over one Academy they needed something to prevent them to just take the relic, so bam, instant glorified keys.
They represent how they don't know what they're doing
There was so much promise and then they just turned out to be magical keycards
So uh... I don't even feel like that fanfic rwby rewrite part was necessary to the video. Besides, the concepts were starting well but she got way ahead of yourself, especially with the genders. It's both exclusive and inclusive and I see no point in it. Just have it be random.
Would you consider doing a video on American Horror Story: Coven?
Hey remember when Dust was important?
It was in the opening cutscene and literally nowhere else. (Roman spends two entire volumes stealing the stuff but he might as well have just been taking money or precious jewels to sell)
RWBY's biggest problem is that it keeps throwing out new cool ideas without developing any of the old ones. Or the new ones, really =/
"Back to you, Tom." I just cracked up there because it sounds so much like a news broadcast 😂😂😂
13:52 as fanfic writer my self I can 100% confirm this is my mentality whenever I write fanfiction.
24:00 - Unicorn of War: "All this is to say that, like most things in RWBY, I love the ideas on display here but everything feels like a rough first draft."
I feel the same way with the other Miraculous holders in Miraculous Ladybug. The show can add more heroes to help Ladybug and Chat Noir but if it doesn't develop the ones that it already has, then what's the point?
I know that everyone is tired of the trope of "The Chosen One". But honestly. Why are the maidens not the four protagonists ??? Seriously. It was going to make a lot more sense than being a random character that appears at some point in the story and would solve the problem that RWBY team has of not really being protagonists of their own stories.
The maidens are the key to all of this. Their funnier characters then we've had before.
We may have gone too far in a few places
The more writer side of me wants to say the reason they didn’t do build-up to Penny getting the powers was it would have killed the twist. While most writers could probably figure out that Winter was not going to become the maiden, it was treated more or less as a twist right up into the scene it happened that Penny would be the one to become the next bearer. Balancing build-up and shock swerve are two very hard things to do and often you have to sacrifice one for the sake of the other.
Honestly speaking though, I wouldn’t really care if the maidens represented nothing. Sometimes, as much as we like to get hung up on thematic elements as writers, hyper focusing on those elements can come to the detriment of the story because not only does it make things predictable but it runs the risk of running stale. When you really get down to it, some of the most famous stories and movies really don’t represent anything. Or at least the author really didn’t intend for them to represent anything and it’s more English teachers trying to build metaphors off the material available in some cases. I’ve heard large theses about what the shark in Jaws represents, when in full actuality all it is, by the intention of the author and then filmmakers, just a big scary monster with a realism bend.
This isn’t me saying representative fiction can’t be great, it most certainly can, but sometimes things just don’t need to be like that. And honestly speaking I do still see some influence the relics have on the maidens or women whom fate seem to decide to become maidens.
We don’t know anything about summer so leaving that aside.
Penny is a literal creation and functionally speaking not a woman or as to the origins of her spirit, which came from a man. However, she identifies and off as a woman and as a creation that her becoming the winter maiden and thus connected to the relic of creation makes sense.
Raven had her worldview and alliances affected by gaining knowledge, so much so she ran away from both her teammates, family, and mentor. While she might have done this before she became the spring maiden and thus connected to the relic of knowledge, semantically it does make sense. That knowledge has now stuck with her and is why she firmly is set in her ways to the point you would align with the villains because of what she knows of them.
Cinder and Amber are both affected by choices. Amber made the choice to disregard the danger and go about without any help or protection, despite being very young and not well trained in her powers. She paid for that choice with the consequence of getting ambushed and beaten down by others that had also chosen evil. Cinder has stuck to her choice to turn her back on a majority of humanity and subsequently begin losing her humanity.
Is it as in-depth characterization and metaphor as it could be? No. But it is they are and I felt that if they made it more parents there would be a risk of being too up too obtuse.
Strong disagree here. The thing with themes, sometimes the author didn't mean to add them in but they are still there. It's not just English teachers looking to deep (btw, they do this as a thought exercise in critical and creative thinking).
Using your example with Jaws; yes the director didn't mean to use the shark as a metaphor for the primal fear that humans have. However, he still taps into that fear to make an effective thriller movie. That's what a good story does. They use human experiences and emotions to make the audience think or feel something, which causes a theme to emerge, whether the writer likes it or not.
@@patronofdragons
So if an author didn't intend a theme, and someone insists there is one but another person either says they got something different from it or also saw no theme; who's right?
Is anyone right? Can one side call the other wrong? I wasn't just using English teachers as an example with the intent of being derisive, merely pointing out the observation that where someone sees a theme; someone else might see something completely different or lack of anything. Just an entertaining plot.
To go back to Jaws, one could argue the shark isn't a metaphor for primal fear and is instead a literal, tangible danger. No different than having a loaded gun pointed at one's self. It's scary to be attacked by something bigger than we are in a place we aren't as capable of defending or evading danger, like the ocean. But it's just as much a fact of life that great whites are big, capable of inflicting grievous harm, and humans can't swim very fast.
Compare this to much more apparent thematic horror with Alien, which despite being often called 'Jaws in Space', is much heavier on the metaphoric horror with rape imagery, bastardizations of pregnancy, and very visceral looking imagery on the monster and set designs.
What I was demonstrating here was such a dissonance however. Unicorn concluded the maidens representing nothing and had no thematic ties to the respective relics. I stated I did see some ties tethering them together and that intensive attempts at a theme might not be necessary. They are certainly not wrong in their judgement, but I'm just noting this is a YMMV kind of topic.
The problem with that is that this type of thinking is *TERRIBLE WRITING.* When you make a twist you have to keep *both* the build up and the shock in mind when writing a story. Because losing either makes the twist fall apart. When you have no build up at all you get the feeling that the twist was lazily came out of nowhere and only happened because the writer wanted to be shocking for the sake of it. When you lose you the shock by making everything so frigging obvious you make everyone see it coming a mile away and make the audience just sit in boredom as the plot gets to the obvious conclusion everyone expected. Both of these things aren’t good for a story. When writing a good twist you have to leave breadcrumbs of this conclusion so that the audience can be surprised when you want them to be and when the audience looks back they see little hints of this conclusion all along and believe the author was a genius.
Also themes are just a basic element of a story. And a important one at that. Because themes add a bit of consistency to the story and can shape how one views the story. You can say RWBY has a theme regarding fours and you can see that crop up in numerous ways in the story. Themes don’t inherently make things “predictable.” You can still have a clever twist that was foreshadowed competently while still having themes in the story. Heck you could interwoven the themes into the twist for maximum effect. And even without this what else is there that justifies the Maidens’ inclusion? They are essentially living macguffins needed to find the macguffins, and once they get those they aren’t actually needed anymore. They’re plot devices more than real characters.
And the issue there is that theme feels more like a stretch then anything else and it reveals a hole in the Maiden system. The story previously said that someone *HAS* to be a biological woman to be eligible. Men are explicitly exempt from this. Penny however isn’t a biological girl, she’s just a robot who *looks* like a girl. Logically speaking she shouldn’t be able to get the powers of the Winter Maiden, but she does which raises questions that I highly doubt the writers even thought through. Like what *are* the rules? Is Penny eligible because she identifies as a girl? The show never portrayed the Maiden Powers as actually caring about what someone thinks… since they aren’t sentient beings, they are magical powers given limitations by a old wizard, if they did I doubt they would let the Maiden Powers go to their fucking killer. If so then what’s stopping someone biologically born male from just saying they identify as female and just killing the Maiden? Would it work for them like it did Penny? If that’s the case then Salem could just send anyone to get the powers, because if Hazel did that would the powers go to him. What’s the point of Salem keeping Cinder around then? And what’s the point of establishing this gender barrier if it’s this easily bypassed? Functionally the barrier stops actually acting as one because the limitations doesn’t fundamentally exist. If you establish rules like this you have to actually follow them.
While Raven might bear this theme it’s not really handled well. We don’t know a whole lot about what she knows or why she specifically did the things she did. She might know about Salem’s immortality but with how tight lipped Ozpin was about it she also might not. And her character in relation to Team STRQ and Yang isn’t as executed well as it could have been. Raven gets a decent amount of screen time but she isn’t used functionally. She spouts pointless exposition and maybe tries to get Yang to join her, but it never really goes anywhere, Yang’s arc with her and Summer are underdeveloped.
Except we don’t really see that. We don’t see Amber actually do that. We don’t see her actually disregard any dangers. And Qrow was close enough to intervene in the battle so it was likely that he was supposed to be around from afar to protect her, which is something we seen him do with Ruby so it’s likely to be the case, so she didn’t really make a choice. If anything I would argue that the *lack* of choice is what connects her to choice. Since the situation with Cinder ambushing her and stealing her powers were things that were out of her own hand, thus she had no choice at all in this scenario. And Cinder could fit what you said I guess but we know so little about her character and why she does things that it frankly doesn’t matter. Choices made by characters don’t really matter if there is no real reason for them. She just wants power for power’s sake.
@@ryancarson6962 Hands full at the moment so I'll do a full response later. I was just noting that they went for a twist, I wasn't defending it :)
To briefly entertain playing devil's advocate however, one should note the limited screen time available for a season. Could resources and time been allocated to the Penny plot? Probably. But adding so much build up can also risk dragging out a plot.
Maidens now are just glorified keys thanks to the vaults
Good Job RT
You lost me at the part where you suggest having each Oracle having to be a specific "gender".
Like, why does the gender of the person even have to matter, when a far better option is to just have each god have a philosophy, and their oracle following that philosophy religiously be it in a good or bad way. This way it truly opens up the "Maiden" concept to all genders seeing as how that is your goal; by not making it matter so much. It also opens up some interesting conflicts of how some past Oracles could've been at war, or how some characters in the cast can disagree with the oracles and their philosophies, as well as their enforcement of them. You obviously put in research into religions and philosphies, you should've focused more deeply into that, but putting up a barrier to characters that align with those ideals, but can't become an Oracle simply because they're "not the right gender" sounds so dumb and backwards of what we're trying to achieve.
I agree with a lot of what you criticize about the show, and I agree that something needs to be changed. However this alternative you're offering just seems like you're pushing this weird agenda. In the video you say how you wanted to open the concept of the maidens to any gender... but for some reason you just segregated it even more. If you wanted to expand the amount of characters that can be "Maidens", why even make gender a factor at all?
True
tbh I didn't understand WHY you chose to change the sexism angle. Yes, it's not well done in RWBY, but the Maidens being a representation of female empowerment can work especially considering Salem is a victim of her abusive father, is twisted by male presenting gods... RWBY seems to be trying something here with her hairstyle being clearly based off a Geisha.
Also, I feel like the "Enby can fit any role" to be a big ol' yikes... I get it was conceived by two nb people but maybe don't create a story where male and female overlap with enby in a "jack of all trades" way?? I just... not a fan of this video at ALL I'm sorry
Hi, Oracle creator here. Now, when I came up with the idea of nonbinary folks being a "jack of all trades" for lack of a better term, I did that because I wanted to make sure that my gender isn't left out. We're barely represented as is, let alone in positions of power.
Also, you're forgetting a key aspect: the deity decides whether or not a person is worthy. It isn't just "oh, I'm nonbinary, I can be any Oracle!" The deity has to give the okay. Otherwise, no powers. Believe me, I've thought long and hard on this.
@@CrystalDragonCynzi I comprehend the choice to go to the more inclusive approach but I think the concept of an Oracle(be it any season) needs to be more inclusive as well for it to work.
If a enby were to become the winter Oracle it would make certain members of the audience uncomfortable, because of course it would, “female” is not how you want to be recognized, and while people can identify as both perceiving it as the norm is something I cannot jive with, personally (having an outside force or deity dictating who is or isn’t worthy of power would not fix my issues, either, that can have some pretty nasty implications for trans folk...).
I don’t mind having the Oracle be restricted to one gender or one umbrella term, you can use it to explore the struggles of one particular demographic the same way I mention in the original comment for women, but if you want to be more inclusive, if I may give my own idea, just make the Oracles have to be four different genders regardless of what season, that way it could be about harmony between four very different individuals and the implications would be less dangerous.
I don’t want to act like the fun police here, it’s your au, it’s your choice to do as you please, I just hope I’m expressing the reasoning as to why reading it would make me personally uncomfortable :P
@@seasustrai6547 Hi, sorry for taking so long to reply back! It took me some time to be sure I was understanding what you meant (autism, yay) and then I fell asleep, but you do bring up a really valid point. I hadn't even seen it as possibly having the implications of an outside force judging if someone is "trans enough" which to me is bonkers--if you're trans you're trans. But thank you for pointing that out.
I've since decided that rather than it being a "you must be this tall to ride this ride" thing, it would be more that any and all genders are able to be an Oracle, the person has to have the right qualities mainly. Thank you for having this discussion with me and for pointing these things out.
@@CrystalDragonCynzi thank you for dedicating some time to understand what I was trying to say (English is not my first language). Good luck on the rewrites
Since when were the maidens supposed to be female empowerment
The maidens seem more like FF8's sorceresses, they are VERY similar.
I enjoyed this a lot. I loved the maidens idea with them being both the keys and the only users of the relics. 😁
I honestly have never put together the fact that the Firelord wiped out the Airbenders to try and stop the cycle of rebirth...until just now.
The maidens not having specific powers always bugged me glad you made this video. Like everytime Cinder uses fire I'm like "bitch you aren't the summer maiden, you're fall; you should be making plants die and shit"
Edit: Thanks to Cinder's backstory we know her semblance is fire or heat. And since Penny seems to only use ice/snow. And Amber's fighting style was mostly storms. I do infact think there are specific powers. But think of it more like a One for all were it basically acts as a semblance enhancer which is why Cinder uses massive fire. That's the magic fused with her semblance. It'd be like if Bakugo had One for all, he'd have explosives ontop of strength enchancement.
I feel like the Fall Maiden powers should focus only on wind and storms. Since autumn is mainly the windiest season
Lol Raven is the spring maiden and she out here using ice like what is going on in the writing room that made the writers connect ice to spring? 😭
@@elusivo3347it's fucking WIMDY
I made a alternative to the maindens based on the "Rise of the Guardians", with insted of maindens we have a group based on folclore characters:
Nicholas Schnne (Santa claus) : guardian of Wonder, "the one who sees a light in the deepest dark".
Bunnybun (easter bunny) : guardian of Hope, "the one who will never give up on a cause".
Thoothyanna (Thooth Fairy): guardian of memories, "the one who will guard the most importants chapters of life".
Sandy (sandman): guardian of Dreams," the one who shall make their achivments come True".
I'll look for better names later
They are choosen by a misteryous ententy called "The moon man" who chooses the next guardian based on this characteristics of "Wonder","Hope","Memories" and "Dreams", so that they can defeat the King of Nightmares (the boogeyman), who is the REAL master of Grimm.
I also gave a new origin to Dust, insted of simple Minerals, they're pieces of the ancient planets destroyed by the Nightmare King.
This is how it would play out:
Wonder: Weiss in this story would be much more close to her grandfather, so much so that her orignal goal of become a huntress was so that she could fight side by side with her grandfather. But afters his death "DEFINITELY" caused by natural causes, weiss stars to be more pessimistic, even getting a much more racist point of view thanks of the influance of her father and mother.
But this Changes once she meets with team RBY, and she starts to have much more happines in her life, especially after meeting Blake (who she'll end up dating in this version). She would start to see much more oppurtunitys of helping old enemys and actually make a difference and fix her old mistakes, she would also be the one to try to reason out with the villans way more than the rest of the cast, even more than Ruby, because of what her grandfather thaught and represented.
Hope: Blake is someone who's starting to give up on her cause, especially after the assasination of BunnyBun (who's the equivalent of Gahid and M.king), she would just try to hide her traits and try to leave it behind...but she can't.
Depp down she cares about the discrimination of Faunus and would still do small things like donating money, stoping assault, etc. And after the fall of beacon she would say "FUCK IT" and go after the white fang and try to defeat the corruption within the group that BunnyBun created in intent to raise the Faunu's voices so that he could bring equallity
Blake afterwards would be a "hopefull" character, meaning that she would be the first one to keep the team's self-steam and try her best to keep everyone moving forwards.
Memories: Yang would be tossing certains memories away so that she could focus on the "most important" and ending up ruining her relationship with her TRUE mother, Summer, and creating a obssecion on finding her BIOLOGICAL mother, Raven.
But after rediscovering those memories she starts to question her self to why she was after something that she din't needed, and stat to focus on what is REALLY important, her family and friends and keep them all safe.
She would become one that would reminds the team of the reasons/ the ones they are fighting for, keeping in the importance of those memories and how that can bring streght.
Dreams: Ruby has a lots of dreams, she dreams with a better world, dream to become a huntress and whishes for the better of humanity.
Ruby would have a bit of every of the Guardians, and she would have the most conflict with the Nightmare King, since she has thee "Silver Eyes", gift of the Moon man and she was chosen by Sandy (who's a god like figure of this world).
She would want to help every one's dreams come true, and try to make a better world in the process
Obs: that's it, relly liked the video and sorry for any bad english.
@Potato owo thanks
#REMN
KEEP IT FLYING HIGH
I'm still all for the Four Oracle's of Remnant inspired by Cynzi but I'd die for a whole RWBY team based on Rise of the Guardian's Characters, they could be old friends of Nicholas Schnee. I'm thinking their team name could be like MNST (Moonstone) or maybe SAND (Sand).
Yeah, I'm definitely going with Team SAND, also, I imagine they'd be in charge of acting as the Oracle's Bodyguards that's meant to always be by their side so they'll have extra protection if they're unable to fend off anyone trying to steal their powers.
We've got:
Sandstone Mansnoozle (The Team's Leader who resides in Vacuo with the Nightcrawler's & is in charge of protecting the Summer Oracle of Vacuo, he was born mute, therefore, he can't speak. However, his semblance allows him to control sand, & one of the things he can do with Sand is manipulate it & form Emoji/Wingding's-Like Symbol's in tandem with his Sign Language Gesture's. His weapon's are known as "Ol' Lukoje", a pair of Dust-Energized Kinetic Palm Gun-tlet's that also have a Dust-Constructed Whip Mode. He's in charge of protecting the Current Summer Oracle of Vacuo, Carnelius Ifriti, Emeraude's (My rewrite of Emerald Sustrai & Carnelius' Predecessor) Best Friend who alludes to the Genie of the Lamp from "Aladdin & The Wonderful Lamp" from "1001 Arabian Nights" by Antoine Galland like the Spirit of the Lamp of Knowledge of The Summer Oracle of Vacuo's Vault, Jinn, does.
Aster Bunnymund (A Hare Faunus with the Ears & Tail of a Hare who specializes in Dust Alchemy as well as Hunting down the Creatures of Grimm who originated from Menagerie but now resides in Vale with the Gran Tavola & is in charge of protecting the Fall/Autumn Oracle of Vale, he's also the uncle of one of my own character's, Leveret De Blanc's to be specific, both have the ability to conjure a portal that leads anywhere they're know of or has at least heard or seen before, Leveret conjures his portals by tracing his index finger on a hard, flat surface in a clockwise-fashion while Aster conjures his by stumping the ground 3x times like a rabbit would. His weapon's are known as "Pascal" & "Washi", Twin Kukri Dagger''s w/ Built-In Revolver's that merge together into a Gravity-Energized, Bladed Boomerang & a collection of Dust-Flinted Metsubushi. He's in charge of protecting the Current Fall/Autumn Oracle of Vale, Ambre DunLoch, Lancelin's (Whose part of Team GALM/Gallium AKA: Team Knights of the Round Table) Auncle who alludes to the Lady in the Lake from the Old English Legend of "King Arthur & The Knights of the Round Table" like the Spirit of the Sword of Destruction of The Fall/Autumn Oracle of Vale's Vault, Morgen, does.)
Nicholas Schnee (Weiss/Winter/Jaxon's (My rewrite of Whitley Schnee who now alludes to both Jack from "Jack & The Cuckoo Clock Heart" by Matthias Malzieu & Jack Frost from European Folklore) Grandfather & Marzanna's (My rewrite of Jacques Gele (Schnee) who not only fill is the Evil Queen Grimhilde to Weiss' Snow White, but also alludes to Jadis the White Witch from "The Chronicles of Narnia" Series.) Father who is not only in charge of protecting the Winter Oracle of Atlas, but also is married to her. (Her name's Yuki, who alludes to Snegurochka from Russian Folklore.) His semblance, which he passed down to his children & grandchildren is known as "Solomon", which allows them to conjure a glyph which in turn conjures any Creature of Grimm they've slain before, with Nick's go-to one being a Krampus Grimm, Weiss' being 7x Pukwudgie Grimm, Winter's being a Golem Grimm, & Jaxon's being a fleet of Impundulu. His weapon's are known as "Frech" & "Nett" (German for Naughty & Nice), Twin Dust-Coatable Koncerz Sword's. He use to have been in charge of the Schnee Dust Company, but, with his wife falling gravely ill, he left Marzanna in charge while he takes care of his dying wife with the help of Team RWFS/Rufous. And after Yuki dies, Friya Turq, A member of Team RWFS (AKA: Team Robin Hood & His Merry Men) who alludes to both Friar Tuck & The Blue Fairy/The Maiden with Turquoise Hair from "The Adventures of Pinocchio" like the Spirit of the Scepter of Creation of the Winter Oracle of Atlas' Vault, Sidhe, does, becomes the next Winter Maiden of Atlas.)
Dentata Alternanthera (A Hummingbird Faunus with the Wings & the Feather's in her Braided Hair of a Hummingbird who resides in Mistral & works as Mistral's top officer in lowering Mistral's crime rates & is in charge of protecting the Spring Oracle of Mistral. Her semblance allows her to gain insight on an item's history simply by touching it, which could also explain her unhealthy obsession with collecting teeth she's collected from criminals she beat up as she needs them to learn more about how they ended up as such. Her weapon's are known as "The Sister's of Flight", a pair of bracer's with a concealed Ramdao she can take out in a Sekiro-Esque fashion, a collection of Dust-Cored Dart's she can sling at enemies, & a Grappling Hook Function she mostly uses to latch onto her enemies if they attempt to run for it or to trip them up. She's a bit preoccupied at the moment solving Mistral's crime's, but her main task is to keep a close eye on Ren Yin, who alludes to Guan-Yin, Chinese Goddess of Mercy who makes an appearance in "Journey to The West" by Wu Cheng'en like the Spirit of the Crown of Choice of the Spring Oracle of Mistral's Vault, does.)
The maidens could be gaurdians of the relics, and special forces to stop Salem. I'm just making a plot for them.
I like the idea that ozma made the maidens to keep his daughters alive like he is kept alive, and the reason he seeks them out, try’s to control who they go to etc, is because he wants his daughters he feels so much guilt over to still be alive. Maybe the magic they have us the magic passed down to them by Salem and Ozma. The immortal family.
What are all the genders? How do they work? How do agender and genderfuild work? I'm confused.
They should end the maiden plot after volume 9 and discover NEW STUFF
Not having new stuff isn't the problem. The show needs better focus. Find the thing that works and expand on it, not throwing everything in the pot and hoping that it will all work out.
(This is a comment before watching the video). The maidens are so cool and I wish they weren’t retconned. If they were an idea from the beginning I feel like there would’ve been more time to develop what they could represent
I always thought those season ladies were just strong and no more than that, I don't really understand why they also need to be keys.
Do we know why teams of huntsmen are 4? Maybe these could have been the first? Like, they were once the high standard, and the characters of team RWBY have to be the new high standard of teamwork and cooperation, replacing the fracture of the maidens’ original team.
But I also think they are just going to connect them to Oz’s daughters and that’s it.
Just a suggestion but the maidens maybe could have been based off of the relics with powers that relate like destruction can destroy stuff or creation can create stuff etc.
Make it like the people who wield the powers must have this personality trait in order to use it fully so it’s not like some girl can get the power and be able to use it and if this is the case, then give destruction to cinder and make her an actual threat.
the maiden maid me have hope for their potintial
but now, theyre wasted
I legit screamed when I saw the thumbnail. Not like an angry scream, I just love tea.
Oh my god, these ideas about the maidens are freaking awesome! Listening to this just makes me realise how poorly written this show is 🙄.
I feel like RT could have spun the cliche of the Maiden story on it's head and emphasized how it was a huge mistake on Ozma's part. Like, dude you just spread your singular ability to unlock the relic chambers across 4 other people who are arbitrary at a baseline AND you made yourself way weaker than Salem in a 1 on 1 fight. Good one mate.
Instead of relying on this idea of these 4 mysterious people being the key to everything (and thereby taking it very seriously), you could treat it as if it's this absurd, stupid decision that a flawed person made and it ultimately led to Salem's victory.
Also, Penny's semblance/soul is part of a MAN'S and nobody has mentioned how it undermines the "women only" aspect of the maidens. Like, that's a PERFECT setup to address how semblance/soul isn't gendered and maybe there COULD be a male or trans maiden, so long as the prior maiden had them in their thoughts.
Honestly, I don't think relying on a McGuffin is itself a plot, but using them results in you needing to make the story around them good, as in a "The journey is what manners" thing
For me that exactly the point, on his long life, Oz finished to make error in some old life. So its only logic that maidens seems artificial in the story : because they are. Oz did it sentimentaly while thinking of his lost children, without thinking so much about it.
I don't remember if I mentioned it somewhere before, but I had an idea of the Maiden Powers having the same powers, but changing as they are received by different Maidens. Adapting abilities and traits similar to previous Maiden's Semblances, or changing the colors of some of their elements to match their Aura's. All the Maidens can summon lightning, but the color of their lightning would be different, and their speed, precision and force will vary. If a Maiden has an aggressive, battle driven personality, they might have the ability to form powerful weapons and unleash the elements with greater force. By contrast, a calmer, more focused Maiden would be able use their abilities with precision.
Similar to how Dust amplifies Semblances and Weapons, each new Maiden modifies the Maiden Powers by adding their own traits to it. If Yang were to gain Maiden Powers, they would replicate some of the traits of her Semblance and allow future Maiden's to use a similar ability to increase their strength when they're in danger. The change retains a part of the previous Maidens, and allows their strength to continue helping others long after death, while also characterizing previous Maidens.
Has anyone ever questioned that, why instead the Spring vault is a desert (similar to Summer) and Winter is a grassy field (similar to Spring) and why is the Winter maiden relic creation, I feel like I would switch the maidens associated with a relic and give the one power each.
Spring nature and earth powers and the creation relic.
Summer fire powers and the knowledge or choice relic
Fall air/wind powers and the choice or knowledge relic
Winter ice powers and the distraction relic
I'd rather watch Monty's RWBY, then Rooster Teeth's Avatar:The Last Aurbender...
I was okay with everything until the thing with Penny, didn't watch the rest of the Volume and seriously, I watched V5 and 6 with passion but I still prefer my An Ren being Salem theory and the girl just being a former Student, not Salem who looked up to Ozpin and still admires him, basically a young adult who graduated and knows about his "secret" statue.
@@artistanthony1007Lol what?
Honestly when it comes to the Maidens I always thought it was more of a vindictive attack from Salem on Ozpin. Because he made these women, and so by wanting to claim them for her self, it was kind of Salem’s way of punishing Ozpin. The relics are the end game items. Taking the maidens is more of a personal extra. “Rubbing salt in the wounds.”
There is always an easy way to do stuff like this
Reboot Rwby
A really simple ass way to connect the Maidens to the Relics would to have the Relics function exclusively in the hands of the Maidens. Not only do you need the Maiden to open the vault, she's also necessary for the relic to actually work. If there was more thematic connection between the Maidens and the Relics, there's some genuine potential here.
The 4 maidens are oz’s and Salem’s daughters and then the powers were transferred.
I forgive you, Salem...
I beg you, MOTHER...
I WARN you...
... I ...LOVE YOU... STILL... BOTH OF YOU!
I still find it so funny that RT got Laura Bailey to voice Amber
It is kind of sad but also brillant how fans can come up with a better concept for the Maidens than the people working on the show.
I mean they represent Ozma's daughters and each are the key to the relics that he locked away to prevent the end of the world... Pretty straight forward.
Cinder is a still a POINTLESS character...We are 7 Volumes into the series and we STILL have no backstory for Cinder or her motivations for working for Salem
U idiot, now she has bland and boring backstory. Go watch it.
From what I heared Miles came to Monty with the desire to expand on the lore and add the relics for that reason.
Monty didn't like the idea but compromised by creating the four maidens.
Now after Monty's death Miles was able to introduce the relics into the story.
However the maidens were still there so he apparently made them the keys to the relics.
This seems to be a case of "too many cooks spoil the broth"
Honestly I want a scene where Oscar asks ozpin if a transgender can become a maiden, and we hear ozpins voice about how loaded a question that is
Transgender person*
@@RedMagius yes of course, but I was working with the idea that a farm boy and a 1000 year old man may not be as progressive as we may like as comedy
@@troperhghar9898 I don’t think a joke where Oscar refers to a hypothetical transgender person as ‘a transgender’ would go over very well.
The topic itself is worth discussing, imo, but not if we’re going to be using dehumanizing language regarding people of unconventional gender identities.
The Avatar still keeps their individuality though. Each one tries to fulfill their destiny as the Avatar in their own way. Heck, as far as we know, Aang is the first Avatar to ever have kids, showing they can also choose how to live their life
Roku had kids, Zuko is Rokus great-grandson on his mother’s side
... Well you clearly weren't paying attention to Avatar.
'There dosent need to be a reason why women get these powers in the first place... Not when men have historically held most of the cards in their favour ...'
I dont understand your reasoning here. Sexism exists, therefore the lore doesnt need to have reasons?
I always thought the maidens should have signature powers yk?
Summer : Fire
Fall : Wind
Winter : Ice
Spring : Nature
This may be unpopular and I’m not trying to have this come off as sexist. This is just the writer in me being analytical and realistic.
All the characters in RWBY are not something I would call great characters. Team RWBY itself features one actually good character, Weiss. One bland but kinda good character, Ruby. A character whose more inconsistent than a politician, Yang. Finally a character I hate, not in a villain I love to hate way but in a I hate this character with my soul, Blake.
A good character needs to be consistent. Weiss has been the most consistent character in the show, but if you compare her to almost any show she kinda looks like a bad character because she scratches the bare minimum requirements to be a good character. In comparison to all the characters in RWBY Weiss is the shining star but in comparison to other shows she’s kinda bad.
@ZerotoHero148
Dude there is nothing sexist about what you said, because if team RWBY were dudes and written as we've seen, the problem would be the same. Hell as a writer myself, inconsistencies in characterization are what I try to avoid because of crap like this.
Miles and Kerry need a writer or two that are good at world building and drama, but they refuse for reasons that God only knows.
@@DemonicRemption i just didn’t want anyone to take what I said the wrong way. This is 2020 after all.
I will say the show got better in volume 7 cause the new writers, but they need to cut the main cast in half to fix their problem. There’s too many characters. It should be Team RWBY, Oscar, Qrow, Penny, Ironwood, Ace ops, then the Villain Squad.
@@zerotohero1483 I agree with you. Blake is only bad because she is now a item to Yang.
@@shift6847 to me Blake has been bad since Volume 4 and she hasn’t had much outside of yang
@@zerotohero1483Blake in 4 was more of a person and now look at her. She now Yang's purse kitty.
Oh come on. Cinder is not as deep as a puddle.
She's as deep as a waxed marble floor.
I liked it till we got to the gender part.
The reason why is because Monty wanted girls to have this power.
Well it could’ve definitely been interesting to see the powers reject their host due to combating parts of them, such as differing personality, gender, sexuality or other core concepts of a person’s psyche. I mean, realistically the only reason that it’s four women in lore is because Ozma had four daughters. It’s not really used past “look at this strong women!” Who then proceed to get hunted for the rest of their lives and rather easily get taken down.
@@klausoshaunacey8429 Nah man. Monty is keeping it simple. He's refering to females. Girls. He was never about this whole gender thing.
@@McKnighty okay, well you can’t really say what he “wasn’t about” because he’s not around to make such statements. The maidens were one of his last ideas before his unfortunate passing, so who knows, maybe he had more ideas about them past just what we have in the show.
@@klausoshaunacey8429 In the three seasons he's worked on, he's never been seen to be interested in the whole expanding gender thing that some people obsesses over. And created any characters that represented that either.
We have enough evidence that he loves to drink pee by comparison.
@Metsarebuff 22 Gods have genders cause this is a fictional world where they do.
Ok, so I know that I am 10 months late but I have a few ideas for the maidens.
So we know that each season represents a specific element and the relics represent a specific quality, so I decided to expand a bit on that.
Now the Summer maiden is the guardian of the Sword Of Destruction, so I was thinking that maybe the power could transfer through death or murder. So if the original maiden died of natural causes or by accident, then the power would transfer to the person they were closest to or if the maiden was murdered then the power would go to the murderer. Thus, representing the quality of death and destruction. The elemental power would be fire.
The Fall maiden is the guardian of the Crown Of Choice, so when the original maiden grows weak, she will be able to choose the new maiden and the new maiden will be able to choose whether or not she wants the power. So basically both parties have a choice in each in their destinies. This also means that the fall maiden power can be easily corrupted. The elemental power could be wind.
The Winter maiden of the guardian of the Staff Of Creation, so basically the power will be hereditary ( like the glyph semblance),
so the firstborn child of the winter maiden will receive the power. The winter maiden will lose their power immediately and the magic will reside in their child. However, the child will not immediately show that power rather the power will grow with the owner. This means that even though the power is lost immediately, it will take time to adjust to the new body and will reveal itself throughout various stages. I made this concept a bit more complicated to show that creation is not a short process with things materializing out of nowhere, rather it is a long process involving formation and growth. Also, this way we can tie the creative powers of the staff to the summoning power of the glyphs suggesting that maybe the glyphs are tied to the winter maiden. The power is ice and snow.
The Spring maiden is the guardian of the Lamp Of Knowledge and spring signifies growth and change. So, I decided on Coven's approach. As the original spring maiden's power weakens the power of the new maiden increases. The new maiden doesn't take away life though, they only take away the magic. So basically there is a gradual change in the power dynamic. This allows the original maiden to adjust to the lack of magic and the new maiden to adjust to magic. This new host is selected on one particular condition. The newer maiden must be less experienced in life but should have a greater curiosity. Thus the new maiden would have plenty of room to learn, showing that the process of attaining knowledge is more important than knowledge itself. The elemental power is nature.
Now I know that I have plenty of plotholes in this idea (I just thought of it today in the shower) and implementing them would greatly change the storyline, so no need to take these seriously. I just wanted to establish certain base concepts. I tried my best in making the maiden powers more unique so that each maiden would not be a carbon copy of the other.
Some extra details -- I decided that the maidens won't have a particular gender. Anyone can die, any biological and fertile gender can have children, anyone can choose and anyone can have a deep interest in learning.
I know that the winter maiden power is a bit controversial so I just want to shed some light on it. The only way for the power to transfer to the new maiden is by having a biological child. If the current maiden doesn't have a biological child or can't have one then the power will disappear from that family forever and will choose a more suitable family lineage. So, this means that for a noble family ( like the Schnees ) who is in control of the maiden power, to retain their position is by procreation. This ties down the traditional concept of marriage and parenthood being sacred, creating a deeper sense of conflict for the maiden. Do they follow their dreams or do they follow their conservative lifestyle and keep their family in power.
So yeah, here are my ideas. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.
Yeah, a LOT of things are pointless now a days in RWBY. Any one of these ideas could've worked on their own, but when dumped into a melding pot then throwing the contents onto a wall to see what sticks muddles the ideas into a redundant mess that can only be understood by data miners or fan fiction writers who implement their own logic into the series in order to force the story to make sense for them. Still, whatever floats your boat as far as I'm concerned.
I am a very simple person and I like fantasy & magical stuff so when I see a show or a movie that is about "magic" and "powers" I like it and sometimes I ignore the plot or story and just enjoy it (for example, the percy jackson movies, I enjoy & like because magic & gods and powers are cool!!! However, I also like it when a show or movie has a story, has some (at least one) deep meanings, and if it has magic or powers, that makes it the perfect series for me (like ATLA, HxH, BNHA, The Magicians, etc.). Like you said, all the things the creaters/writers make/create are COOL and AMAZING but they are just concepts. They are a rough draft and need to start reviewing and rewriting to make it a great final draft. (For example, Legend of Korra could have been just as amazing as ATLA but because the writers didn't have an exact "end goal", they tried to do so much but it didn't always succed)
What would be awesome is if each of the Maidens had not only powers, but also personalities and certain characteristics that match their seasons.
Let’s start off with Winter. We can take her powers in either one or two ways: go for the obvious and give her straight up ice powers, or subvert the audience’s expectations and go in a completely different direction in terms of her abilities. For sake of argument we’ll go for ice for now. What I think could be an interesting idea would be to build up the Winter Maiden to be cold and unforgiving: basically Salem on a smaller scale. But when Team RWBY track her down, she doesn’t fight them. She welcomes them, saying that she had been expecting them. She proves to be a welcoming and understanding woman, even though she has a hard time properly expressing her emotions as a result of her Maiden Status. This I feel would be an interesting take on the concept of the Winter season: often perceived to be cold and lifeless but holds an immense beauty behind what’s on the surface. This stereotyping is what led to her self inflicted exile: as a result of her Maiden Powers she was highly feared by all. She chose to separate herself from the rest of Remnant, seeing that no matter what she did she had no place there.
Next up is Summer. I decided to go with fire powers for her. She’s the exact opposite of the Winter Maiden: Summer is hotheaded and is one to quickly escalate situations and start fights. Summer is a time of year associated with broken promises: touch and go, had fun, next. I can see the Summer Maiden being something of a nomad, travelling all over Remnant and doing as she pleases. She’s liked by all, but also feared by some due to her volatile nature.
Then we have Spring. Spring is often a season associated with life and healing, so for the Spring Maiden I think healing abilities would be fitting for her. As for personality, I took a bit of inspiration from Demeter from Greek Mythology. She is naturally very motherly and caring, but a force to be reckoned with when angered. She could be placid like Winter, welcoming Team RWBY with open arms. However, strength wise she pales in comparison to her fellow Maidens. She tries to avoid conflict as much as she can, as she is more than aware that Spring’s place is to heal, not to harm.
Finally we have Fall. Much like how Summer and Winter are opposites, it makes sense for her and Spring to be opposites too. Whereas the Spring Maiden possesses the ability to heal, I think an interesting take for Fall would be for her to kill everything she touches. I think Cinder is supposed to be the Fall Maiden, so let’s use that to improve her character. I think a cool trend for the Fall Maiden would be that each one isn’t a monster at her core: she is misunderstood and often looked down at in favour of her fellow Maidens. Cinder could be the same: she wanted to use her powers for good but had no control over the lives she inadvertently ended. As is the nature of Autumn: nothing can escape its cold grasp. She was scolded and ostracised from the people of Remnant, but not before she was burned with a mark of destruction over her eye. Cinder toured Remnant alone, her soul growing colder with each night she spent in exile. She decided that if they wanted the Fall Maiden to be a monster, then she’ll give them one they will never forget. She sets out to find and kill the other Maidens, looking to fulfil the destiny the people of Remnant had forced her to adopt. That the Fall Maidens before her had forced her to adapt to.
They kinda had that in the tale of the four seasons. Winter is when you stay in and reflect, Spring is when you recover and renew, Summer is the time to go out and enjoy life, and Fall is when you look back and be thankful. They could just use those are themes for the respective Maidens' stories and it could become a nice meaningful plot element.
@@tulicloure Fair enough. I haven't seen the show: mainly because it's been nuked from TH-cam. But I know what I need to know about the characters from slipping into the RWBY fandom and piecing information together from what I gathered in conversations.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios I mean, they had that in the "origins story" of the Maidens, but it's never really followed through with the actual Maiden characters. So you're mostly right with what you said, IMO.
I wonder how different rwby volume3 til now would look if Monty Oum never passed.
This is random but i love the art of cinder in the thumbnail where did it come from HAHAa
iirc it's from an RPG called Knights Chronicle - they had a crossover event with some of the RWBY cast.
@@christopherpickett4909 No it's from Amity Arena, the official tower defense type mobile game for RWBY
I've always been under the impression that the series will culminate with the 4 main protagonists ultimately inheriting the maiden powers, hence why the idea of 4 protagonists was so important in the first place. Ruby as Spring, Yang as Summer, Blake as Fall, and Weiss as Winter.