Clearest discussion on embouchure I’ve come across…excellent I use a lip out embouchure but hadn’t realised how a muscular band inside the bottom lip supports the reed
You guys make it look so easy. 3 years ago at 60 I decided to do my motorcycle test which I confidently passed. Learning to play the saxophone is something I have always wanted to do and for my 63rd birthday my wife has just bought me my very first Tenor Sax. Love it, and like the bike I wish I had started it years ago. There is one thing though, the bike is the easier of the two😁 I am really enjoying your brilliant feeds, I didn’t realise that there was so much to playing the saxophone. Will persevere though despite the squeaky notes. Cheers guys.
I found at least 2 brochures on my own, but I didn't imagine that both were okay. Thank you for all these tips, they are the most useful I've found on u tube!
I'm a beginner sax player, and new Sax School Pro member. I had only heard of the "classical" embouchure until this video. Good to know about the other variation.
Always lots to learn about embouchures John. Glad you enjoyed this - check out Joels' Ultimate Embouchure" class inside Sax School for loads more help with this.
I think I’ve been biting to hard and constricting the flow of air. Which I thought sounded better then too deep and soft bite, now I gotta find the nice space in between. I really like the jazz sound.
When i picked up the sax first time ( i was like 25 years old) i immediately started to use the "jazz embochure" i had no idea how these work. And when i have found a teacher he started to shame me on it. And told me that the only way to play is to use the "classical" approach. Then i told him that i feel much comfortable with my style and i am the one paying so if he does not like it he can fuck off and then he just stopped shaming me. I still play with the jazz approach to this day and i think that gives me a much more room to express myself with my own "sound"
I was taught what you are referring to as the Classical embouchure as the only embouchurel (our director was originally a French horn player and I also didnt learn alternate fingerings until 40 years later lol). Said 40 years later I also discovered a TH-cam video that demonstrated the Jazz embouchure (although they didn't refer to it as such) and they explained that it allows a much fuller and louder sound. I was surprised as to how much volume and tone I gained! I was only playing Bari at the time, in both Wind Symphony and Jazz. I do sometimes catch myself playing my Alto with my earlier embouchure and realize how much less mouthpiece I have taken in at the same time. Earlier habits take time to break/change.
Great video.... I was a clarinet player first, so when I started on saxophone, I had a pretty tight embouchure. I learned from a couple of teachers to use the "lip out" method; it really opened up the sound. Ended up playing mostly baritone, so the "lip out" style worked really well on that horn. Thanks for this great information!
I wish I had this tutorial back in 1967! The first 4 years I played sax I used a double embouchure (lips wrapped around top and bottom teeth). Nobody told me it was wrong until a summer clinician recognized it and had me correct it!
Lip out; I feel like it lets me practice longer too, bc there is so much less tension--even when being careful. I went down in reed strength some when I switched.
Thanks guy for the best embouchure mistake explanation I've come across. I tend to have a loose embouchure as my muscles tire and I tend to bite to overcome this. But the sad emoji is now burnt into my brain. Cheers
So informative. Now I know why I struggle with the low notes especially on the tenor. Coming from a clarinet embochure training(classical embouchure) It is natural to apply that to sax playing.
That is a lot of information. i hope some saxophonist takes note Most of those things i learned them by experience But I'm glad i was right My throat control i learned that by watching people doing it and trying to reproduce it and it's become a part of my playing Thank you for all that precious information
I’m a oboe player moving to tenor saxophone for highschool this year and I still am unsure how to form my embouchure and I have to do a lot of unwinding since oboe you need have to a very… different embouchure. Thank you for this :)
Great video. Have had an enforced break of playing the sax due to surgery, not sure when I can restart, but noticed I was overbiting before. When I restart I will go back to basics and this has given me a lot to think of - thank you
Great advice Nigel and Joel! My first sax teacher was primarily a clarinetist and taught me the “lip in” embouchure. Since changing to the jazz embouchure my sound has started to open up. It was a painful process while my whole voicing needed to adjust, but I wouldn’t go back. Work in progress still !
Hi Nigel, I'm intermediate and playing with jazz style but my tutor play with double eambrochure and he it touching mouthpiece with top teeth at all. It took him 15 y to develop and I tried is very hard but it sounds amazing. PS I love your tutorials! You are great
A really excellent video the different embouchure techniques were clearly explained together with pros and cons really super presentation. As for me coming back to saxophone after many more years that I care to remember I had never heard of the jazz method but will certainly give it a try. But in fact when I come to think of it I have seen quite a few star sax players use that embouchure in the past but thought nothing of it. Well done Nigel & Joel great work!!!!
Thank you! One of the best explanations and demonstrations of the difference between these two embouchures. I have been working toward a jazz embouchure for the past few months and your demo helped me get more clarification. Much appreciated!
HI. I've been a SaxSchool Student for just over a year now. I'm taking a short break from practice right now to relax my face a bit, and doing some review study. I've found that when I get a bit tired, I try too hard, and that usually results in biting down, doing the "smile" thingie, and then you get air leaks from the sides, crappy sound and sore lower lip. As to the embouchure I use, well, I've only been at it a year and I'm still sorting that out. I have an old mp with a large throat and tip gap. I tend to relax with that one and approach the "no embouchure" end of things. It gives me more freedom for bends and scoops, and as Joel puts it, a more personal sound. I also have a newer mp with a narrow throat that seems to be really sensitive to air flow. When I use the jazz approach I get a lot of over tones, so with that one I tend toward the classical embouchure. So still working on it. Still having fun. Keep up the good works.
Hi Thanks Nigel and Joel. I think I have probably made all of these most common mistakes. I have tended to try and form the classical embouchure. This has resulted in too much mouth piece, too little plus biting the mouth piece too hard resulting in a very sore lip. Going forward I will be trying to develop the Jazz embouchure, all points noted. Thanks again. AK
This is a brilliant video and really shows the difference in tone and colour you get when you use the jazz embouchure. One of the best tutorials I've seen in a long time!
Hi Nigel, I just got started and the sounds I make on the saxaphone is terrible. 😅😅 Trying to correct the mistakes early on! Haha thank you for the free content! Love your channel! 🙏🏾❤️
I loved your reed and mouthpiece videos, thanks! Your videos have really given me hope these past 5 years I have not been able to play. Maybe after my heart surgery, I can start Sax School! I used a Rovner on my alto. On my tenor the stock mp. I love ALL your videos and you are the Coolest Dude on youtube! many thanks and keep up the good work! Jim Curtis, New Jersey, USA.
I'm using what is closest to the "jazz" embouchure. Still working on consistency as a beginner, but making progress. Definitely get a fuller sound with it.
Some time ago i changed from classical to loose embourche and i like the change in sound. I found with loose embourche the pitch goes down a bit so i have to push the mouthpiece further up than before. I still tend to bite for altissimo, working on that.
6 month sax player here. I am using more of a classical embouchure. my teacher is mega classically trained and if its good enough for him, its good enough for me.
Great lesson thanks Nigel and Joel - sometimes I bite too hard when I’m concentrating and sometimes I’ve air escaping at the sides and I’m going to try the happy v sad emoji method to fix this ! 😄v ☹️🙌
Hi. Have you ever tried the stan getz emboucher for stopping you students from to much pressure. Stan would use a double lip emboucher. Lip under the top teeth as well as the bottom teeth. Student learn to not bite very fast that way. Patrick
Brilliant video. This is such a challenging topic and there is so much out there and not all of it is useful or helpful! This video is both. Great job, guys! Thank you!
This is great!!! I use both and go back and forth really a lot depending on what kind of sound i think/feel the music requires in that split second. You guys are really good on this subject!
Thx guys, I love your style and enjoy the fun the two of you have😄 Although I am still struggling with the embouchure, it shows opportunities to improve!
I just signed up for course I just replaced my tenor and alto and my chops are shot. I don’t even know which emboucher playing rock and blues when younger I’d say closer to lip out as I naturally seem to have a bright sound. And volume has never been much of an issue for me playing on a size 6 dukoff. But biting to hard is def something to look at. Tenor still feels ok but alto has been not so good.
I just realized now, after my 1st 3 months, i was taking too less mouthpiece, and too much bottom lip pressure. Thanks guys, I'll practice my scales now, and use that mm, by mm technique, find my sweet spot, then less pressure 👍🎷🎷
Never made it a habit to use the jazz version but I do like the feel better, I was also only ever taught the classical. I feel like you have to build up more of a callus for the classical though. After coming back to it after years of no practice the jazz is definitely easier on the bottom lip.
I can get a sound and don't experience a problem when I play a D. But, I lack control on G below that. I either don't get a sound, or I more often get an upper register tone, instead of the expected G. Even if I attempt to recall the feel for the successful embouchure at the G, I end up fussing to try and find it again. That's why I found your video : )
Nigel and Joel, thank you for this teaching. I am new to the saxophone and trying desperately to learn and play it. I have an older sax (tenor) which was my uncle's sax. Don't know where he accumulated it from or if he was in the band while in school. For the most part it seems to be in good condition from what I can tell. Please keep up the good work.... I am learning:)
Regardless of the infinite number of variations adopted by the highest grade saxophonists, wrt embouchure, mouthpiece,, reed, instrument etc etc, the saxophone inherently and essentially sounds like and is perhaps designed to sound like the Bombay Taxi Horn. One does not need to travel to Bombay to hear the taxi horn as these are available in junk shops, second hand shops, curiosity shops , pawn shops and flee markets around the world.
There are two very basic types of embouchure ever. The first type is that used by Adolphe Sax himself and all saxophonists up until the late thirties or early forties. The double lip or double cushion embouchure. The second type is the single lip or teeth on top embouchure which is the type preferred by rock, funk , and hard jazz players. One is not better than the other as some of the greatest jazz men have used or are using the double lip type and some of the greatest classical players have used and are using the single lip type. One thing is absolutely clear and demonstratable and that is that no amount of gimmickry with the single lip type can approach the double tip type for warmth, softness , darkness, and smoothness but with not as much projection. Bergonzi states in his video that the “no embouchure” embouchure requires the player to insert the mouthpiece into the mouth exactly as if inserting a drinking straw. This video has it that the top teeth should rest on the mouthpiece beak.Which race of humans inserts a drinking straw so that the top teeth rests on it? As far as in generally practiced a drinking straw is inserted into the mouth so that it is supported by the two lips with the teeth not being involved in the least.
Hello, I see you have an HR mouthpiece. What ligature do you use for this? I have an Otto Link HR - MP and am looking for a suitable ligature. Very clear and informative video. Many Thanks.
Hi. Glad you enjoyed it! I’m playing an Otto Link 7*. There’s not a vast array of choice for OL mouthpieces, and I’d advise against the standard OL one, but BG do a leather one that fits well. Also, there is a lig called a Winslow that fits great too. I currently just use 3 rubber o-rings which I find work a treat!
Thanks for the great info. Do you have advice for trumpet players transitioning to sax? As a trumpet player for years but brand new to sax, I think sometimes, especially as I get tired, on sax I might pull the corners of my mouth back to hit higher notes (on trumpet that would be going from the "ta" sound shape to a "tee" sound shape). I don't want to get bad habits. Thank you.
Great question. Really it’s just most important to take the time to develop your embouchure slowly because you will use different muscles from your trumpet embouchure. So just a few mins playing at a time and when you do get tired, take a break. Go for it.
Great video I’m quite new to everything and I have trouble with my mouth getting sore after a few hours of practicing my embouchure. I’m gonna give the jazz embouchure a try and see how it works out for me.
Interesting, I originally used the first one, but 9 years later I'm not so sure. I think it develops as you make progress, otherwise it prevents you from playing variety of styles effectively.
Hi Nigel, I recently tried three different Jazz mouthpieces and with all three I could not stop squeaking above high G. With my inexpensive Yamaha 5C i can hit the upper register with never a squeak. Is there a different embouchure for Jazz mouthpieces? I returned the Jody Jazz Custom Dark and the D'Adario Marble. I now have a Meyer M which I still squeak with.
It varies slightly in angle rather than shape. Think about how your head naturally moves when you sing from high to low, and try to replicate this movement. 👍🏼
@@JoelPurnell thanks for advice buddy ✌️ So the shape of embouchure doesnt change? Thats a relief for me because if that was the case that would be very challenging for beginners...
@@JoelPurnell In your opinion, what would be the most important things for faster and easier progress for beginners? Can you give some advices? Is learning proper embouchure the hardest part?
@@antonijelucius1010 Hi. There’s lots of factors that are important to get right in the early days of playing, and embouchure is certainly one. We have a great ‘starter pathway’ to help with all this inside Sax School and have also just launched a mini series on TH-cam over the last month that’ll help you get going. Definitely check them out! 👍🏼
thanks for these very helpful talk but I have a problem first thing first I am not a beginner i have been playing for a lot of time so my problem is when I get to altissimo range or just high notes starting from palm keys I find out while I practice them or making technique exc that at some point I bitting my bottom lip to get this sound to come out especially when I get to altissimo so when I practice them for 15 to 20 minutes that I had some pain in my lip so if this normal to bit a little bit to get these high notes and altissimo? or we had not bit at all?
That's a great video 📹 👍. I am a brand new player of tenor saxophone 🎷 and I have never been able to play key of G. I have begun to play key of C but even that doesn't sound soo good. (Not stable on a note). Please, I need a help.
Hi there you guys, thank you for your very helpful video. I took up the soprano saxophone at Christmas as it was a present from my dear husband. One problem that I've been having which is very frustrating, is that no matter what strength reed I play with, the sound keeps going soggy as the reed gets waterlogged. Is that caused by embouchure or is there another reason? Other than that, I'm getting on quite well, bearing in mind that I've been teaching myself. I've been playing alto sax since 1982, so not new to playing. My upper register is improving though, after starting off being very difficult, sounding thin. I have been spending lots of time working on this. Your help and advice would be really appreciated please. Thank you very much.
Hi Carolyn. Great to hear the video was helpful. If you mean you are getting lots of saliva in your sax (mouthpiece / neck) then it’s best to just keep cleaning it out with a sax swab. This is super common but it is always better if you don’t eat before playing and drink water while practicing. Hope that helps.
Thank you for a great tutorial on embouchure, I would have liked to hear you both playing at the same time, you Nigel one on standard embo and Joel playing his jazz embo, I could hear the difference when Joel gave an example but for my ear both at the same time would have helped me get a better picture. Nevertheless you guys are always great, thanks again.
It varies slightly in angle rather than shape. Think about how your head naturally moves when you sing from high to low, and try to replicate this movement. This also helps you find the right throat position. 👍🏼
This video made me think about the angle of the mouthpiece in relation to tone. It’s quite tricky to see our side view in a mirror but presumably the air flow should be travelling with the minimal impedance. Any tips on this?
Yes, think about blowing ‘through’ the horn rather than ‘at it’. Imagine a person in the distance and visualise knocking them over with your sound. I found this analogy very useful when I was younger.
If you have your teeth on the top, make sure that you are using down pressure and only sealing with the lower lip and not supporting. It’ll take time to adjust.
I‘m still struggeling between the two versions of the embochure and I still didn’t find out the right positions. Nevertheless your explanations will be very useful, thanks for these.
I'm a beginner on Alto Sax, I use the classical embouchure, but I find it more natural to not use my top teeth on the mouth piece. I'm about 2.5 months into playing
Great video! There's certainly loads of conflicting info out there that makes learning the saxophone so difficult! I've started with a "classical" embouchure, then sort of went towards the lip out embouchure, got told off by a few people and also found it really tough and am back to classical. That being said, I've only been playing for a year and a half, so not much time. I'm still struggling with high notes (above high D) and find that I have to take a bit more mouthpiece that I would like to in, otherwise they simply don't come out. I also find that I have to add quite a bit of pressure with my embouchure and I'm not sure how much pressure is ok and how much pressure = biting. Is it normal to add more embouchure pressure as I go up the range or are we, ideally, looking to keep the same consistent embouchure pressure and position all the way through the range of the horn? Would love to hear your thoughts! :)
Ideally there should be no pressure change throughout the range, however there should be a change in angle. Think about singing low to high and try to imitate the same movement through the range of the sax. Hope that helps!
@@pas0003 To tell the sax what pitch you intent to play you need the equivalent ‘singing’ shape in your larynx. Part of this is the actual angle of your head. In order to get the correct larynx (including your tongue) position, you’ll find you raise your head slightly to ‘sing’ higher pitches, and lower it slightly for lower pitch. This changes the angle of your embouchure in relation to the mouthpiece, basically either resulting in slightly shortening or increasing the length of the reed. Critically, this movement does not result in tightening or loosening the embouchure, just a change in the angle of pressure.
My problem is when I close my mouth I have an underbite - my bottom teeth are in front of my top teeth, therefore I tend to have too much mouthpiece in my mouth to bite down on, and my sound is quite tinny, any suggestions?
Hey John. What’s important is where your bottom lip is in relation to the point the reed comes away from the mouthpiece. Focus on that and your tone should improve.
ive been looking online if anyone has used doubled lips style. I am a returning saxophone player and i play with my lips covering my teeth on both sides and i see no one talking about it. I'm not sure if i should keep doing this or not
Hi. That’s a pretty unusual embouchure style that I don’t use or teach. For me I find I have much more control and better tone with the embouchure I describe in this video.
I notice I start with what I think is a good embouchure. However, as I fatigue, I notice my mouth transitions to a tight, smiling, embouchure. Suggestions?
I do not play sax myself, but my son plays alto and soprano, but without doing embouchure-training in this way. I am not going to "goad" him into "bite"-embouchure, but I want to be able to help him suggesting some type of embouchure when he whines about the sax being "out of tune".
Joel is not wearing a neck strap while playing, yet he effortlessly holds his saxophone like it was weightless. Either he has superhuman strength or is using some kind of support. Please enlighten us.
I’m halfway into your video, and you’ve not said ONE thing that I ever heard from Joe Allard. Of course Joe cited his great students AND those great players who never studied with him as examples of great successes and great playing. I’m coming from 40+ years of this whole thing…..what of what happens behind the teeth? Throat? Aural Cavity? This reminds me of all things mother england, not all things sax!
Use the classical embouchure. After 35 years on/off on the saxophone, I categorically disagree with Joel, the classical embouchure should be taught first (except edge cases).
![How Do I Sound Good On Saxophone? [avoid these 3 awful mistakes]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fcnPznz8jKQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Visit our blog for loads more advice and tips on becoming a better sax player.
Clearest discussion on embouchure I’ve come across…excellent
I use a lip out embouchure but hadn’t realised how a muscular band inside the bottom lip supports the reed
You guys make it look so easy. 3 years ago at 60 I decided to do my motorcycle test which I confidently passed. Learning to play the saxophone is something I have always wanted to do and for my 63rd birthday my wife has just bought me my very first Tenor Sax. Love it, and like the bike I wish I had started it years ago. There is one thing though, the bike is the easier of the two😁 I am really enjoying your brilliant feeds, I didn’t realise that there was so much to playing the saxophone. Will persevere though despite the squeaky notes. Cheers guys.
You’re welcome. I’m glad the videos are helping. And congrats on making a start with your sax.👍🎷
I found at least 2 brochures on my own, but I didn't imagine that both were okay. Thank you for all these tips, they are the most useful I've found on u tube!
I'm a beginner sax player, and new Sax School Pro member. I had only heard of the "classical" embouchure until this video. Good to know about the other variation.
Always lots to learn about embouchures John. Glad you enjoyed this - check out Joels' Ultimate Embouchure" class inside Sax School for loads more help with this.
I think I’ve been biting to hard and constricting the flow of air. Which I thought sounded better then too deep and soft bite, now I gotta find the nice space in between. I really like the jazz sound.
When i picked up the sax first time ( i was like 25 years old) i immediately started to use the "jazz embochure" i had no idea how these work. And when i have found a teacher he started to shame me on it. And told me that the only way to play is to use the "classical" approach. Then i told him that i feel much comfortable with my style and i am the one paying so if he does not like it he can fuck off and then he just stopped shaming me. I still play with the jazz approach to this day and i think that gives me a much more room to express myself with my own "sound"
I was taught what you are referring to as the Classical embouchure as the only embouchurel (our director was originally a French horn player and I also didnt learn alternate fingerings until 40 years later lol). Said 40 years later I also discovered a TH-cam video that demonstrated the Jazz embouchure (although they didn't refer to it as such) and they explained that it allows a much fuller and louder sound. I was surprised as to how much volume and tone I gained! I was only playing Bari at the time, in both Wind Symphony and Jazz. I do sometimes catch myself playing my Alto with my earlier embouchure and realize how much less mouthpiece I have taken in at the same time. Earlier habits take time to break/change.
Great video.... I was a clarinet player first, so when I started on saxophone, I had a pretty tight embouchure. I learned from a couple of teachers to use the "lip out" method; it really opened up the sound. Ended up playing mostly baritone, so the "lip out" style worked really well on that horn. Thanks for this great information!
I wish I had this tutorial back in 1967! The first 4 years I played sax I used a double embouchure (lips wrapped around top and bottom teeth). Nobody told me it was wrong until a summer clinician recognized it and had me correct it!
Oh no! That makes it so much harder.
I’m rather partial to the “Jazz” embouchre, it just feels more comfortable for me. But sometimes I switch to the classical one, just for a change 😊🎷
Lip out; I feel like it lets me practice longer too, bc there is so much less tension--even when being careful. I went down in reed strength some when I switched.
Thanks guy for the best embouchure mistake explanation I've come across. I tend to have a loose embouchure as my muscles tire and I tend to bite to overcome this. But the sad emoji is now burnt into my brain. Cheers
Thanks Terry! 🙂☹️😉
Thanks guy, second day learning Sax but this vid has already made me able to hold a consistent note
So informative. Now I know why I struggle with the low notes especially on the tenor. Coming from a clarinet embochure training(classical embouchure) It is natural to apply that to sax playing.
I’m glad it helped you Roscoe.
This is literally why I’m watching this video
That is a lot of information. i hope some saxophonist takes note
Most of those things i learned them by experience
But I'm glad i was right
My throat control i learned that by watching people doing it and trying to reproduce it and it's become a part of my playing
Thank you for all that precious information
Glad you enjoyed it!
I’m a oboe player moving to tenor saxophone for highschool this year and I still am unsure how to form my embouchure and I have to do a lot of unwinding since oboe you need have to a very… different embouchure. Thank you for this :)
Great video. Have had an enforced break of playing the sax due to surgery, not sure when I can restart, but noticed I was overbiting before. When I restart I will go back to basics and this has given me a lot to think of - thank you
That’s a good plan SaxyDawn, I hope you’re back to playing soon.
Great advice Nigel and Joel! My first sax teacher was primarily a clarinetist and taught me the “lip in” embouchure. Since changing to the jazz embouchure my sound has started to open up. It was a painful process while my whole voicing needed to adjust, but I wouldn’t go back. Work in progress still !
Hi Nigel, I'm intermediate and playing with jazz style but my tutor play with double eambrochure and he it touching mouthpiece with top teeth at all. It took him 15 y to develop and I tried is very hard but it sounds amazing. PS I love your tutorials! You are great
Thanks Tomasz. A good double lip embouchure is hard to pull off.
A really excellent video the different embouchure techniques were clearly explained together with pros and cons really super presentation. As for me coming back to saxophone after many more years that I care to remember I had never heard of the jazz method but will certainly give it a try. But in fact when I come to think of it I have seen quite a few star sax players use that embouchure in the past but thought nothing of it. Well done Nigel & Joel great work!!!!
Thanks Bill. I’m glad this was helpful.
Thank you! One of the best explanations and demonstrations of the difference between these two embouchures. I have been working toward a jazz embouchure for the past few months and your demo helped me get more clarification. Much appreciated!
Hi Luanne! Glad it’s helped!
HI. I've been a SaxSchool Student for just over a year now. I'm taking a short break from practice right now to relax my face a bit, and doing some review study. I've found that when I get a bit tired, I try too hard, and that usually results in biting down, doing the "smile" thingie, and then you get air leaks from the sides, crappy sound and sore lower lip. As to the embouchure I use, well, I've only been at it a year and I'm still sorting that out. I have an old mp with a large throat and tip gap. I tend to relax with that one and approach the "no embouchure" end of things. It gives me more freedom for bends and scoops, and as Joel puts it, a more personal sound. I also have a newer mp with a narrow throat that seems to be really sensitive to air flow. When I use the jazz approach I get a lot of over tones, so with that one I tend toward the classical embouchure. So still working on it. Still having fun. Keep up the good works.
Thanks for sharing. Hope you get back to your sax again soon.
Hi Thanks Nigel and Joel. I think I have probably made all of these most common mistakes. I have tended to try and form the classical embouchure. This has resulted in too much mouth piece, too little plus biting the mouth piece too hard resulting in a very sore lip. Going forward I will be trying to develop the Jazz embouchure, all points noted. Thanks again. AK
I usually use the jazz style colourful playing. I like to show my real personality through my sax.
This is a brilliant video and really shows the difference in tone and colour you get when you use the jazz embouchure. One of the best tutorials I've seen in a long time!
Thanks Mike!
Hi Nigel, I just got started and the sounds I make on the saxaphone is terrible. 😅😅
Trying to correct the mistakes early on! Haha thank you for the free content! Love your channel! 🙏🏾❤️
I love this, I do like the Jazz style ....
I loved your reed and mouthpiece videos, thanks! Your videos have really given me hope these past 5 years I have not been able to play. Maybe after my heart surgery, I can start Sax School! I used a Rovner on my alto. On my tenor the stock mp. I love ALL your videos and you are the Coolest Dude on youtube! many thanks and keep up the good work! Jim Curtis, New Jersey, USA.
I'm using what is closest to the "jazz" embouchure. Still working on consistency as a beginner, but making progress. Definitely get a fuller sound with it.
Excellent coverage and advice.
Nigel, killin' it, as usual.
Some time ago i changed from classical to loose embourche and i like the change in sound. I found with loose embourche the pitch goes down a bit so i have to push the mouthpiece further up than before. I still tend to bite for altissimo, working on that.
6 month sax player here. I am using more of a classical embouchure. my teacher is mega classically trained and if its good enough for him, its good enough for me.
Glad it’s working for you.
Great tips,tnx guys..
Excellent 🎉
Great lesson thanks Nigel and Joel - sometimes I bite too hard when I’m concentrating and sometimes I’ve air escaping at the sides and I’m going to try the happy v sad emoji method to fix this ! 😄v ☹️🙌
Cool, hope it helps you Andi!
Hi. Have you ever tried the stan getz emboucher for stopping you students from to much pressure. Stan would use a double lip emboucher. Lip under the top teeth as well as the bottom teeth. Student learn to not bite very fast that way. Patrick
Brilliant video. This is such a challenging topic and there is so much out there and not all of it is useful or helpful! This video is both. Great job, guys! Thank you!
Thanks Becky, glad you enjoyed it.
Excellent information!
Thanks Teresa! I hope it helped you.
This is great!!! I use both and go back and forth really a lot depending on what kind of sound i think/feel the music requires in that split second. You guys are really good on this subject!
Thanks Bob.
Really, really helpful. Thank you!
Thx guys, I love your style and enjoy the fun the two of you have😄 Although I am still struggling with the embouchure, it shows opportunities to improve!
Really interesting thx guys
Cheers Sue!
Again. Great content. The Super-Team: Nigel and Joel, your teaching is best! Always helps and motivates! Keep it up.
Thanks!
I just signed up for course I just replaced my tenor and alto and my chops are shot. I don’t even know which emboucher playing rock and blues when younger I’d say closer to lip out as I naturally seem to have a bright sound. And volume has never been much of an issue for me playing on a size 6 dukoff. But biting to hard is def something to look at. Tenor still feels ok but alto has been not so good.
Using classic embouchure
helpful video thank you, just starting and this is great
I just realized now, after my 1st 3 months, i was taking too less mouthpiece, and too much bottom lip pressure. Thanks guys, I'll practice my scales now, and use that mm, by mm technique, find my sweet spot, then less pressure 👍🎷🎷
Glad it helped you Johnny. That’s a common mistake but you’ll notice a difference once you change.
Never made it a habit to use the jazz version but I do like the feel better, I was also only ever taught the classical. I feel like you have to build up more of a callus for the classical though. After coming back to it after years of no practice the jazz is definitely easier on the bottom lip.
I can get a sound and don't experience a problem when I play a D. But, I lack control on G below that. I either don't get a sound, or I more often get an upper register tone, instead of the expected G. Even if I attempt to recall the feel for the successful embouchure at the G, I end up fussing to try and find it again. That's why I found your video : )
This is very useful i got a lot ❤️👍
Very good, very usefull video as ussual!
Nigel and Joel, thank you for this teaching. I am new to the saxophone and trying desperately to learn and play it. I have an older sax (tenor) which was my uncle's sax. Don't know where he accumulated it from or if he was in the band while in school. For the most part it seems to be in good condition from what I can tell. Please keep up the good work.... I am learning:)
Good stuff! Thanks guys!
Regardless of the infinite number of variations adopted by the highest grade saxophonists, wrt embouchure, mouthpiece,, reed, instrument etc etc, the saxophone inherently and essentially sounds like and is perhaps designed to sound like the Bombay Taxi Horn. One does not need to travel to Bombay to hear the taxi horn as these are available in junk shops, second hand shops, curiosity shops , pawn shops and flee markets around the world.
If horns sound like this in Mumbai I need to go visit. Thanks for watching. 🎷
There are two very basic types of embouchure ever. The first type is that used by Adolphe Sax himself and all saxophonists up until the late thirties or early forties. The double lip or double cushion embouchure. The second type is the single lip or teeth on top embouchure which is the type preferred by rock, funk , and hard jazz players. One is not better than the other as some of the greatest jazz men have used or are using the double lip type and some of the greatest classical players have used and are using the single lip type. One thing is absolutely clear and demonstratable and that is that no amount of gimmickry with the single lip type can approach the double tip type for warmth, softness , darkness, and smoothness but with not as much projection. Bergonzi states in his video that the “no embouchure” embouchure requires the player to insert the mouthpiece into the mouth exactly as if inserting a drinking straw. This video has it that the top teeth should rest on the mouthpiece beak.Which race of humans inserts a drinking straw so that the top teeth rests on it? As far as in generally practiced a drinking straw is inserted into the mouth so that it is supported by the two lips with the teeth not being involved in the least.
Both (having come from clarinet) - and also something else for altissimo because I'm not good at altissimo!!
Hello, I see you have an HR mouthpiece. What ligature do you use for this? I have an Otto Link HR - MP and am looking for a suitable ligature. Very clear and informative video. Many Thanks.
Hi. Glad you enjoyed it! I’m playing an Otto Link 7*. There’s not a vast array of choice for OL mouthpieces, and I’d advise against the standard OL one, but BG do a leather one that fits well. Also, there is a lig called a Winslow that fits great too. I currently just use 3 rubber o-rings which I find work a treat!
Thanks for the great info. Do you have advice for trumpet players transitioning to sax? As a trumpet player for years but brand new to sax, I think sometimes, especially as I get tired, on sax I might pull the corners of my mouth back to hit higher notes (on trumpet that would be going from the "ta" sound shape to a "tee" sound shape). I don't want to get bad habits. Thank you.
Great question. Really it’s just most important to take the time to develop your embouchure slowly because you will use different muscles from your trumpet embouchure. So just a few mins playing at a time and when you do get tired, take a break. Go for it.
Great video I’m quite new to everything and I have trouble with my mouth getting sore after a few hours of practicing my embouchure. I’m gonna give the jazz embouchure a try and see how it works out for me.
Interesting video. I would have liked to see a close up of Joel’s mouth positioning. The camera angle made it hard to see the differences clearly.
Good point Caroline, perhaps we can do this in the next video.
Interesting, I originally used the first one, but 9 years later I'm not so sure. I think it develops as you make progress, otherwise it prevents you from playing variety of styles effectively.
It’s good to explore both options to find what gives you the flexibility you need Geoff.
I will experiment and see what happens
Hi Nigel, I recently tried three different Jazz mouthpieces and with all three I could not stop squeaking above high G. With my inexpensive Yamaha 5C i can hit the upper register with never a squeak. Is there a different embouchure for Jazz mouthpieces? I returned the Jody Jazz Custom Dark and the D'Adario Marble. I now have a Meyer M which I still squeak with.
Great lesson. I noticed Joe was not using a neck strap. I have a sax seat. My sax rests on a small shelf
Hey William. Joel is getting a Sax Seat soon too - at the moment he uses a spike in his sax instead of a neck strap.
Hi William. Yes, I’m looking forward to receiving mine! #saxseat
Is it good to practice playing with both the styles of embouchure or just find the one that works best for you and stick to it? Thanks.
Great question Lucy, I’d suggest finding the one that works for you and sticking with it.
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool great. Many thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.
Does embouchure variates slightly between adjacent notes? Or is it the same for all notes?
It varies slightly in angle rather than shape. Think about how your head naturally moves when you sing from high to low, and try to replicate this movement. 👍🏼
@@JoelPurnell thanks for advice buddy ✌️
So the shape of embouchure doesnt change? Thats a relief for me because if that was the case that would be very challenging for beginners...
@@antonijelucius1010 No, in general your embouchure stay pretty much the same shape. 👍🏼
@@JoelPurnell In your opinion, what would be the most important things for faster and easier progress for beginners? Can you give some advices? Is learning proper embouchure the hardest part?
@@antonijelucius1010 Hi. There’s lots of factors that are important to get right in the early days of playing, and embouchure is certainly one.
We have a great ‘starter pathway’ to help with all this inside Sax School and have also just launched a mini series on TH-cam over the last month that’ll help you get going. Definitely check them out! 👍🏼
Brill, thanks so much.
so nice
thanks for these very helpful talk but I have a problem
first thing first I am not a beginner i have been playing for a lot of time so
my problem is when I get to altissimo range or just high notes starting from palm keys I find out while I practice them or making technique exc that at some point I bitting my bottom lip to get this sound to come out especially when I get to altissimo so when I practice them for 15 to 20 minutes that I had some pain in my lip so if this normal to bit a little bit to get these high notes and altissimo? or we had not bit at all?
That's a great video 📹 👍.
I am a brand new player of tenor saxophone 🎷 and I have never been able to play key of G.
I have begun to play key of C but even that doesn't sound soo good. (Not stable on a note). Please, I need a help.
Hi there you guys, thank you for your very helpful video. I took up the soprano saxophone at Christmas as it was a present from my dear husband. One problem that I've been having which is very frustrating, is that no matter what strength reed I play with, the sound keeps going soggy as the reed gets waterlogged. Is that caused by embouchure or is there another reason? Other than that, I'm getting on quite well, bearing in mind that I've been teaching myself. I've been playing alto sax since 1982, so not new to playing. My upper register is improving though, after starting off being very difficult, sounding thin. I have been spending lots of time working on this. Your help and advice would be really appreciated please. Thank you very much.
Hi Carolyn. Great to hear the video was helpful. If you mean you are getting lots of saliva in your sax (mouthpiece / neck) then it’s best to just keep cleaning it out with a sax swab. This is super common but it is always better if you don’t eat before playing and drink water while practicing. Hope that helps.
Thank you for a great tutorial on embouchure, I would have liked to hear you both playing at the same time, you Nigel one on standard embo and Joel playing his jazz embo, I could hear the difference when Joel gave an example but for my ear both at the same time would have helped me get a better picture. Nevertheless you guys are always great, thanks again.
I’m guilty on all five, but doesn’t the embourchure change as you’re playing or is it your throat and air?
It varies slightly in angle rather than shape. Think about how your head naturally moves when you sing from high to low, and try to replicate this movement. This also helps you find the right throat position. 👍🏼
This video made me think about the angle of the mouthpiece in relation to tone. It’s quite tricky to see our side view in a mirror but presumably the air flow should be travelling with the minimal impedance. Any tips on this?
Yes, think about blowing ‘through’ the horn rather than ‘at it’. Imagine a person in the distance and visualise knocking them over with your sound. I found this analogy very useful when I was younger.
What about used double lip I try to put my upper teeth on top and I don't like the way it sounds am I doing something wrong ???
If you have your teeth on the top, make sure that you are using down pressure and only sealing with the lower lip and not supporting. It’ll take time to adjust.
I‘m still struggeling between the two versions of the embochure and I still didn’t find out the right positions.
Nevertheless your explanations will be very useful, thanks for these.
I'm a beginner on Alto Sax, I use the classical embouchure, but I find it more natural to not use my top teeth on the mouth piece. I'm about 2.5 months into playing
Woah Joel was one of my tutors at uni
I get a lot less squeaks with the Jazz embouchure. I was a trumpeter in Jazz band in public school.
i actually used such a big amount of lip that it hurt at lower teeth level :D good stuff there!
classical embouchoure I always thought of as the one most like playing clairnet. Tighter around the mouth.
Yes there are some similarities John.
Great video! There's certainly loads of conflicting info out there that makes learning the saxophone so difficult!
I've started with a "classical" embouchure, then sort of went towards the lip out embouchure, got told off by a few people and also found it really tough and am back to classical. That being said, I've only been playing for a year and a half, so not much time.
I'm still struggling with high notes (above high D) and find that I have to take a bit more mouthpiece that I would like to in, otherwise they simply don't come out. I also find that I have to add quite a bit of pressure with my embouchure and I'm not sure how much pressure is ok and how much pressure = biting. Is it normal to add more embouchure pressure as I go up the range or are we, ideally, looking to keep the same consistent embouchure pressure and position all the way through the range of the horn?
Would love to hear your thoughts! :)
Ideally there should be no pressure change throughout the range, however there should be a change in angle. Think about singing low to high and try to imitate the same movement through the range of the sax. Hope that helps!
@@JoelPurnell thank you, I think it does! When you mean the angle - you're talking about inside the throat and not the embouchure/lips, correct?
@@pas0003 To tell the sax what pitch you intent to play you need the equivalent ‘singing’ shape in your larynx. Part of this is the actual angle of your head. In order to get the correct larynx (including your tongue) position, you’ll find you raise your head slightly to ‘sing’ higher pitches, and lower it slightly for lower pitch. This changes the angle of your embouchure in relation to the mouthpiece, basically either resulting in slightly shortening or increasing the length of the reed. Critically, this movement does not result in tightening or loosening the embouchure, just a change in the angle of pressure.
@@JoelPurnell thank you for the detailed explanation! I will experiment with this!!
My problem is when I close my mouth I have an underbite - my bottom teeth are in front of my top teeth, therefore I tend to have too much mouthpiece in my mouth to bite down on, and my sound is quite tinny, any suggestions?
Hey John. What’s important is where your bottom lip is in relation to the point the reed comes away from the mouthpiece. Focus on that and your tone should improve.
ive been looking online if anyone has used doubled lips style. I am a returning saxophone player and i play with my lips covering my teeth on both sides and i see no one talking about it. I'm not sure if i should keep doing this or not
Hi. That’s a pretty unusual embouchure style that I don’t use or teach. For me I find I have much more control and better tone with the embouchure I describe in this video.
3:46 before they start actually talking about embouchures...
I notice I start with what I think is a good embouchure. However, as I fatigue, I notice my mouth transitions to a tight, smiling, embouchure. Suggestions?
What's holding Joel's sax? I don't see a neck strap, it seems to be floating in the air
Looks like on a support.
Joel created an attachment that he calls the gravity stick.
Bit of Paul Daniels magic
Ha! I built this years ago due to back and neck issues and it’s served me well.
I do not play sax myself, but my son plays alto and soprano, but without doing embouchure-training in this way. I am not going to "goad" him into "bite"-embouchure, but I want to be able to help him suggesting some type of embouchure when he whines about the sax being "out of tune".
2Joel, Man on the right: why don't you polish the sax?
Joel is not wearing a neck strap while playing, yet he effortlessly holds his saxophone like it was weightless. Either he has superhuman strength or is using some kind of support. Please enlighten us.
Yes Joel is a superhuman (but he is actually using a sax spike to support his sax).
I guess I’ll just stick with Legere!!!
👌
I’m halfway into your video, and you’ve not said ONE thing that I ever heard from Joe Allard. Of course Joe cited his great students AND those great players who never studied with him as examples of great successes and great playing. I’m coming from 40+ years of this whole thing…..what of what happens behind the teeth? Throat? Aural Cavity? This reminds me of all things mother england, not all things sax!
Shoot me an email Yvonne and let’s have a chat. Perhaps you could share some good tips for our students. Support@saxschoolonline.com
The biggest mistake I made was getting all my teeth extracted. Any advice on embouchure development? Thanks
Now do it for the soprano.
I tend to get a strong sound if I don't touch the top of my mouthpiece with my upper teeth. But maybe that's because it prevents me from biting.
“Double lip “ for me
Use the classical embouchure. After 35 years on/off on the saxophone, I categorically disagree with Joel, the classical embouchure should be taught first (except edge cases).
not gonna lie- that channel name sounds kinda familiar
Ha!!
I think I'm making about 20 mistakes 😥
Lip out