*Timestamps:* 00:00 - Introduction 00:25 - Background of Dr. Fatoohi 00:59 - Today's Topic 03:45 - Josephus' Testimony about Jesus pbuh 08:30 - Historical Significance of the Testimonium 17:00 - Background of Flavius Josephus 21:27 - Testimonium Flavianum & its Analysis 31:00 - History of the Testimonium 36:40 - The Deafening Silence Continues 39:47 - Testimonium Eusebium? 41:55 - Christian Forgeries & their acceptance 48:40 - Issues with the Testimony of Eusebius 52:38 - Chain of Transmission of the Hadith 56:28 - Unreliability of the Gospels & Testimonium 58:17 - Passage Unity 1:08:24 - Josephus the Jesus Admirer 1:13:58 - The Gospels' Jesus: Messenger to Israel 1:17:47 - The Qur'an's Jesus: Messenger to Israel 1:19:28 - Development of Christianity after Jesus 1:22:58 - Christian Population in Ancient Times 1:29:35 - Evolution of Gentiles' Salvation Theology 1:33:36 - Inaccuracy of Early Christian Population 1:34:32 - Recap of Arguments against Testimonium 1:36:13 - More Complete Forgery Arguments 1:40:52 - Partial Authenticity Arguments 1:46:46 - The 3 Arguments against Testimonium 1:47:45 - Book on the same topic by Dr. Fatoohi 1:48:32 - Main issue of accepting Testimonium 1:51:00 - Chasm b/w Christian Academia & Laity 1:52:35 - Spuriousity of the Gospels & Testimonium 1:53:56 - Closing Remarks & Wrapping Up SubhanAllah ❤️💛💙 Amazing Discussion 👍🏻👌🏻 _May Allah ﷻ bless you both and reward you for your efforts._ 🤲🏻
indeed, I saw 3 or 4 of Fatoohi presentation and they are so intelligent. Also Dr. Atai, and others as well. May Allah bless you Russell and grant you light and all of us. He is the Light of Heaven and Earth. Amin
@@louay.fatoohi Thank you Dr. Fatoohi, it took quite a lot of emotional energy from me....13 years of silence culminating in this interview with dear Paul. It was quite healing in a way. I had not come across you or your writings until now, and am delighted to discover you. :)
Haven’t watched yet but this topic is much needed to gain a better understanding as to who Josephus was and what his view on Jesus was. I have no doubt this video will provide great clarity regarding this topic. Brother Paul understands his audience very well and is a master of engaging his audience by putting forth top notch content for his viewers! I salute you and your tireless work ethic my good sir! JazakAllahu Khair brother ☝🏼 **Update** Just finished watching and I’m just blown away by Dr. Fatoohi’s insight! Such amazing commentary backed with valid reasoning behind his assertions. The man carefully dissects these topics and absolutely crushes them leaving the viewer in awe of his work. Wonderful work gentlemen and may Allah (swt) reward you both for bringing this quality content for the general public to consider 👏🏼
اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ وَسَلِّمْ عَلَىٰ سَیِّدِنَا مُحَمَّدٍ وَعَلَىٰ آلِهِ Allāhumma ṣalli wa sallim ʿalā Sayyidinā Muḥammadin wa ʿalā ālihi O Allah, send prayers and peace upon Our Master Muhammad and upon his Family.
Thank you Paul for translating those crucial ideas from conclusions that are usually thrown around as sound bites into a clear and coherent synopsis for laymen like myself Both this video as well as your discussion with professor James Tabor yesterday helped me better understand these scholarly positions by walking me through the evidence and thought process behind arriving at these conclusions I find great value in the way you break things down for the rest of us May Allah reward you
May Allah swt Bless Paul and His loved ones and his Guest n his loved ones. It’s amazing how much there is to learn from history. It’s such a specialized subject and people like JS knows that the average layman hardly knows the subject and so uses it to dishonestly ram the unsuspecting Muslim with it. Brother Paul and Dr Fatouhi are so admirably providing Muslims the wherewithal to answer such “under the belt, lying under ur face” attacks against Islam. Somewhat like what Deedat did in his day. May Allah swt Bless all of them. Thank you.
I heard about Josephus a lot and one of the geo-political analysts I follow (Christian Palestinian) mentions him a lot. Thanks you for bringing brother Fatoohi and giving us the clearest explanations of who this historical figure is.
Thankyou so much Paul for all the preparation you go through to provide valuable informative knowledge for you veiwers. I greatly appreciate your work God Bless you ❤ From Australia
Welcome back Dr Fatoohi. Always enjoy your explanations, so many new things I learn and get understanding about history, Quran etc. Jazakallah khayr to you and also to Br.Paul for having you in Blogging Theology. Ramadan Mubarak
Subhan'Allah ! I do think the brother did a fantastic job presenting all the arguments, however he did miss out on a few points (due to the time constraints perhaps): 1. In the sixteenth century "Isaac Vossius" (Dutch scholar and manuscript collector) had a manuscript of the text of Josephus in which there was not a word about Jesus. 2. It is not quoted by "Photius" (patriarch of Constantinople - 9th century) either. Though he has 3 articles concerning Josephus; and he clearly states that this historian has not taken the least notice of Christ. This clearly means that there were many copies of the "Antiquities" around that didn't have the TF passage. 3. Just to add to the "tribe" being referred to as Christians, we clearly see Josephus using the word "tribe" as ethnicity in various parts of his book, but never once as religion. While Eusebius was the first historian to ever use the word tribe to refer to Christians. Before him not a single church father or christian historian or apologists referred to Christians as "tribe".
00:00:00 - 01:00:00 Dr. Louay Fatoohi discusses the authenticity of Flavius Josephus' alleged testimony on Jesus in the "testimonium flavianum" passage. He explains that the passage is heavily corrupted and interpolated by later Christian scribes, according to nearly all modern scholars. Dr. Fatoohi argues that the passage is a complete forgery, and he provides evidence to support this view, including the lack of knowledge of the passage by many Christian writers who quoted Josephus, and the fact that Eusebius, who is known to have changed quotes and even made things up, introduced the passage. He also compares the passage to the Trinity verse in the New Testament, which is a forged text that was inserted into the Bible and was not quoted by early Church fathers. 01:00:00 - 01:55:00 Dr. Louay Fatoohi provides a historical and Islamic critique of Josephus' alleged testimony on Jesus. He argues that the language used in the passage is heavily influenced by Christian terminology, implying that it has been modified by Church historians over the years. Fatoohi also points out that the supposed "neutral" language used to describe Jesus cannot be attributed to Josephus, as he only speaks of individuals in terms of their gender and not in a subjective manner. The video delves into various arguments for and against the authenticity of the testimonium, with Fatoohi ultimately concluding that it is a complete forgery, and emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and methodology in approaching sources related to religious subjects.
Wonderful, can't even start explaining how much I appreciate you both gentlemen. Amaizing. So, Josephus is not reliable and I was very enthusiastic about his chapter with Alexander the Great.... I am realy interested in reading Dr. Fatoohi's book about prophet Joseph/Yusuf . Jazakumullahu khairan !
It will be nice and quite interesting if you add to the argumentation, the historicity of Jesus, the few hints to Jesus by Lucian the Syrian, or known in some references as Lucian of Samosata ( Lucian is a Hellenized Syrian satirist, rhetorician and pamphleteer) who lived between 125-200 (last records of mentioning him was about 180).
Anyone listening to Dr. Fatoohi's very one-sided historical presentation should also read William Whiston's dissertation in the Appendix to his 'Works of Josephus'. In the appendix, Whiston provides a comprehensive analysis not just of the references to Jesus Christ but also to James the Just and John the Baptist. In the dissertation, Whiston lists evidence of the ancient citations of the testimonies of Josephus (regarding John the Baptist, Jesus and James) from his own time until the fifteenth century. Even if one dismisses the words, 'he was the Christ' as found in book XVIll, there is enough detail in Josephus' 'Antiquities' to know that he was giving an honest and accurate account of events that took place in Judea and in the Roman territories. In general, the histories of Josephus support the Biblical narrative, and contribute helpfully to our understanding of what happened in Judea after the Romans occupied the land.
Josephus as a Jewish historian is one of controversy. Some argu that he could not have existed at the time of Jesus or the apostles. Also even the representation of Josephus, as resembling a modern day Jewish person, is wrong based on his skull.
10:21 - 11:46 Paul deferred and learnt / spent time with the Apostles after his vision with Jesus. When he was unsure about something later he went back to the apostles in Acts 15. Christianity was a grassroots movement it was not just 12 people who made some stuff up in a vacuum
In Paul's letter to the Galatians he says that he did NOT receive the Gospel from any man nor did anyone teach it to him. Instead it was a direct revelation from Jesus. And that after he received his "call" from God, he did not go to anyone for advice, nor did he go to Jerusalem to consult with the Apostles, but went at once to ARABIA, then back to Damascus. He does not say how long he stayed in Arabia, only that three years later he went to Jerusalem to meet with Peter and James. (Galatians 1:11-19). Then he began his missionary work in what is now Turkey. According to what he told the Galatians he returned to Jerusalem some fourteen years later because God told him to (2:1-2) but according to Acts 15 the reason he and Barnabas went to Jerusalem was to settle a controversy regarding whether Gentile converts were to follow the Torah. It was decided at that meeting they did not have to. Paul resumed his traveling and preaching. However, some time later (Acts 21) Paul found himself being questioned by the Jerusalem elders who were very concerned about rumors that he was telling Jews they didn't have to follow the Torah either. If you read what Paul says about the Torah in Galatians it is not hard to figure out why and how these rumors started. He may have claimed to be preaching only to Gentiles but there is no denying that he left himself wide open to these charges. Paul was very much a freelancer who did not hesitate to put down the Jerusalem mother church when it suited his purposes: "Don't listen to anyone else, not even them, listen to me." Acts was written some time after Paul's letters and is an attempt to smooth over the differences he had with the apostles. But if you read Paul's letters for yourself you will see very little love lost between him and them. He can be quite harsh on occasion and did not tolerate anyone disagreeing with him. The now-extinct Ebionite Christian sect did not consider Paul to be an apostle of God; and there are some modern Christian groups who likewise reject him.
Hi thank you so much literally watchin this during iftaar!!! looking to purchase the books of josephus question though about the Testimonium Flavianum even though he says jesus is a man ( brilliant) However it does also say according to him “He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life” How would you guys look at this particular portion incase this was to be used as an argument?? That would be interesting to know!!! Thats Paul for opening these doors
the fact that the chronology of TF in the book of josephus is not as per christian chronology adds more evidence of the view of majority of scholars that there was an original TF penned by josephus later corrupted by chirstian scribe most likely revised or modified by eusebius.
1:39:55 the context in which the passage about Jesus in Josephus, between , that alone, shows it is out of place, take the 2 account before and the 2 account after the Jesus' passage, take them in mind and then read that little page about Jesus, it seems out of place, incomplete as a whole, not only the interpolation, but the whole passage, its placement between such events make no sense, plus the James who was brother of Christ so obvious.. I am surprised that they try to cling to partial authenticity.. Not to mention that Early christian writers did not jump on it till a long time!.. Many red flags, had this been in Islamic sources, the whole book would be weak even by Muslim, let alone non muslim scholarship.
His name was Yosef ben Mattityahu. Yosef in Latiin was the Josephus, the Flavius is Vespasian.s family name. He was a slave owned by Vespasian. The reason there has not been more interest in this is that Christians are doubtful of it. for this reason: Why, if people who loved the truth as he says would follow Him, would he, himself not have become a Christian?
Assalamu Aleykum. I would like to argue against the point made by Dr Louay Fatoohi on the minute 1:13. Dr Looay says that the claim: "Jesus won over many Jews and many Greeks" is outright wrong. My argument against that statement for the purpose of staying objective even as A Muslim arguing against Christianity is: 1- From the Quran, Surat Assaff 61:14: "O believers! Be the helpers of Allah, just as Isa (Jesus) the son of Maryam said to his disciples: "Who will be my helper in the cause of Allah?" And the disciples responded: "We will be your helpers in the cause of Allah." Then a faction from the children of Israel believed in him (Isa) and another faction disbelieved. We aided the believers against their enemies, so they became dominant/apparant". So this Aya clearly stating that a faction of the Jews believed in Jesus and another Faction disbelieved. And Allah aided the Jews who believed in him to become apparent/Dominant over the Faction that disbelieved. The best interpretation here would be that a bigger number of the Jews believed in Jesus. 2- Josephus was writing in early 90's AD. (I am not arguing that he wrote that Testimony about Jesus. I am just arguing that your earlier arguments were very strong but not this one). That's more than 40 years after Paul started actively seaking to convert Greeks to his version of the Gospel. Nevertheless he was calling the Greeks to believe in Jesus. And from the Acts of the Apostles we can confidently affirm that he was very successful in his mission. Establishing churches in many cities. Even bringing with him a lot of donations from his followers to Jerusalem to boast his success to James and the other 11 disciples. It's the momentum realised by Paul that made his version of Christianity, with the support of powerful people in the Roman Empire dominate the authentic Jewish movement of the 12 disciples. Who were expelled from Judea after the destruction of the Temple. Likely many of them died defending it as they were a bigger threat to Roman authority than the Jews who didn't believe in Jesus. Allah knows best.
The word ظ ه ر does not denote quantity. And neither does the word "dominant" -- if you really want to translate into that. Jesus saved from the crucifixion and the subsequent destruction of the temple as God's punishment (Quran 17:7) were among the signs that made the truth "apparent".
@@madyasiwi Allaha says in 61:14: 1- The jews were divided into 2 factions. 2- Allah supported the Faction that believed in Eassa PBUH 3- By consequence the faction that Believed became Apparent ظاهرين over those who didn't. The Aya doesn't say "The truth became apparent" as you say. It says the faction of the Jews who believed became apparent over those who didn't. I don't see how the destruction of the temple makes the Truth Apparent as both factions worshipped in the Temple and it was a sacred masjid for both of them. I also don't see how Allah saving Eassa PBUH from the cross makes the truth Apparent as everybody thought he was indeed crucified as it says in the Quran: "It was made to appear to them" (The Jews thought that they crucified him). Faction A became apparent ظاهرين over Faction B. If it's not in number and popularity than what?
_"I don't see how the destruction of the temple makes the Truth Apparent as both factions worshipped in the Temple and it was a sacred masjid for both of them."_ @@adamdilem941 according to Christians sources, Jesus warned about the corruption done by the religious authority at the temple and prophesied it's destruction. This is inline with Quran 17:7 I referenced above.
_"I also don't see how Allah saving Eassa PBUH from the cross makes the truth Apparent as everybody thought he was indeed crucified as it says in the Quran: "It was made to appear to them" (The Jews thought that they crucified him). "_ @@adamdilem941 it made the truth apparent to his followers/the _hawariyyun_ . His followers were Jews, and no Jews believe a messiah can die on the cross or become a curse. _"Faction A became apparent ظاهرين over Faction B._ _If it's not in number and popularity than what?"_ In the truthfulness of their faith.
@@madyasiwi You have replied but you haven't made any argument. stating what the Hawaryeen believe does not constitute an argument. Please read again my argument and read your response. You're not making any sense.
I think It is not appropriate for a prophet to say that he did not succeed. Because success comes from Allah and prophets only fulfill their duty of conveying the message.
Paul I want to share my thoughts with you if mary mother of Jesus then who created Mary if Jesus was God then why he born like human why he killed by humans if Mary mother of Jesus then who is Mary husband who is father of Jesus
Christians believe that God incarnate into Jesus to come close to humans. Jesus died for the sin of the believers in him. Jesus human father doesn't matter. Some believe he has human father and some don't. It's sounds crazy but that's what they believe.
🙏☮️💟✝️⚔️🗡️ Enjoy the guest 👏🏼 and subject… I wish you two would discuss the book 📖 “James, the Brother of Jesus” by Robert Eisenman. I believe all 3 Abrahamic religions were forever corrupted by Herodians. How would David, Melchizedek, or Phineas treat the backsliding we all have witnessed? It’s getting worse gentlemen and I respect everyone’s opinion…within reason. 😎
Paul and Louay… 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 I respect your sincerity and skills at communicating a view of Jesus, which is not popular among my dissimulated Christian brothers & sisters. Likewise, Robert Eisenman’s research intrigues me as well…unfortunately I believe Dr. Eisenman has been disrespected and disregarded by Jewish, Christian & Muslim believers (I pray Robert’s health is well, we’re all getting older). I believe… All of us have more in common than we know or could know, given that man is prone to dissimulation. A man so influential in getting the Dead Sea Scrolls into the public view, Dr. Eisenman deserves respect and I’d love your analysis of his extensive research and many books.
Whats drives my moral compass so crazy it two things How does the current monarch continue to walk with consciousness when proffesors under there rule expose theyre very understanding/ compass of life and spirituality and secondly how do priests live knowing they are teaching forgeries to their people?? so bewildering
"the many of the greeks part" in the testimonium is kind of sketchy. Is the author saying Jesus converted them or was this the result of his apostles converting the gentiles years later? not sure if the rest of the book speaks on this. If it the former, then it is evidence of it being clear lie. Jesus' followers only started converting the gentiles years after. Somehow, even though Jesus had told them to preach to all nations ( luke 24:47) years earlier. Somehow , they forgot about this for a very long time. When Cornelius eventually converted, Peter didn't say "I did so because Jesus had told us it was cool way back when". He tried to explain his vision and we see that christians say finally the Gentiles are saved. SO that means they had not been preaching to all nations. If Jesus had given them the green light ...why weren't they preaching to all nations. The actions put in doubt the very authenticity of verses like Luke 24:47 and/or acts 10 and 11. If jesus told his followers to preach to all, they would have started right away and if someone would ask...they would not say "because i saw a dream od unclean meant" ....they would just say Jesus told us we could.
Donald M. Craig points to ancient sources regarding a history of Abraham from India: …Flavius Josephus …(in the) Antiquities of the Jews … quotes Aristotle (384 b.c.e.-322 b.c.e.) as saying that Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers and are known as the Calani. Clearchus of Soli was a student in Aristotle’s school. In his book, De Somno, he elaborates on the story of how Aristotle discovered this information, but the basic concept remained the same. Megasthenes was an ambassador of Seleucus I of Syria to India, before the latter’s death in 288 b.c.e. Megasthenes wrote that the Jews were an Indian tribe or sect called Kalani. Except for the spelling he agreed with Aristotle and Clearchus. Higgins also claims that Ur of the Chaldees, the home of Abraham mentioned in the Bible, was actually Ur of the Chaldeans. “Chaldean,” he continues, is actually “Kaul-Deva” or the Holy Kauls, a Brahmanical caste of India. He writes that the tribe of the Brahmin was expelled from or left India and settled in Goshen in Egypt. - Part I by Anonymousfor Prajapati
It amazes me how biased wrong facts are forwarded here. Josephus writings where originally written in Greek and the original Greek versions both have the Jesus narratives as detailed accounts of Jesus half brother " James the just". One must know that Jesus half brother was a well known figure in Jerusalem of those days, as he spend a lot of time in the temple. During Jesus lifetime he had difficulty accepting that the person he grew up with could be "the messiah", but after Jesus resurrection James became a bold follower of Jesus, proclaiming that Jesus was the Messiah and his resurrection. James could have never made this up, would have never made it up. Jesus crucifixion, death and resurrection was a huge event in Jerusalem of those days and the grave of Jesus, belonging to a rich member of the Sanhedrin, was well known to everyone. Everyone could visit the grave himself and everyone could ask Mary, the mother of Jesus or the remaining disciples or James himself. So it was a well established fact at that time that Jesus had resurrected from the grave and was seen by many. That lead many Jews at that time to follow Christ but of course the majority nevertheless didn't accept Jesus as the messiah because Jews expected the Messiah to free them from oppression from the Romans. So, Josephus was writing down what clearly happened in the Jerusalem of those days. The original Greek manuscripts are very clear on this and the texts are definitely not changed. Maybe you better research it again....
Bro how ignorant can you all be? Islam came 600 YEARS after Jesus. 600 YEARS. By the way YOUR QURAN says the Bible Is TRUTH. NOT CORRUPTED. So explain why you reject the quran by rejecting the bible. The bible says that Jesus IS GOD IN HUMAN FORM AND I HAVE THE VERSES TO PROVE IT. So dont start your BS lies and excuses. Phillippians 2:5-7. BOOM.
Very estonished the real history about the life of Hazrat Jesus you lost and any one do not research thier life history and where they migrate after cruccifiction safe and sond migrate to any where .I read the Dr Hanemanns life history .He writes in his books that his father was a big priest of a tribe of followers of Jesusasw and he migrate fom Rome to Australia .Hanemann said i belonged a sSemoul groupof followers of jesus .his father know all the history life of jesus where they migrate .This was the main reason he believed on the jesus death in kashmir .then he researched the Holy Quran and got the regular education from the arabic university in 19 years age he rememberd the holy Quran by heart and accepted the islam he love Hazrat Mohammad saw .he educated in nine language and died in 1835 .and burried in Merri tarri grave .his prayer of funerial also say by some muslims .you can read his books reality of truthfully about jesus .
Luke was a contemporary of Jesus. He was a historian. His biography would be reliable. Luke 1:3 I resolved also, because I HAVE TRACED ALL THINGS FROM THE START WITH ACCURACY, to write them to you in logical order, most excellent The·ophʹi·lus, 4 so that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally.
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*Timestamps:*
00:00 - Introduction
00:25 - Background of Dr. Fatoohi
00:59 - Today's Topic
03:45 - Josephus' Testimony about Jesus pbuh
08:30 - Historical Significance of the Testimonium
17:00 - Background of Flavius Josephus
21:27 - Testimonium Flavianum & its Analysis
31:00 - History of the Testimonium
36:40 - The Deafening Silence Continues
39:47 - Testimonium Eusebium?
41:55 - Christian Forgeries & their acceptance
48:40 - Issues with the Testimony of Eusebius
52:38 - Chain of Transmission of the Hadith
56:28 - Unreliability of the Gospels & Testimonium
58:17 - Passage Unity
1:08:24 - Josephus the Jesus Admirer
1:13:58 - The Gospels' Jesus: Messenger to Israel
1:17:47 - The Qur'an's Jesus: Messenger to Israel
1:19:28 - Development of Christianity after Jesus
1:22:58 - Christian Population in Ancient Times
1:29:35 - Evolution of Gentiles' Salvation Theology
1:33:36 - Inaccuracy of Early Christian Population
1:34:32 - Recap of Arguments against Testimonium
1:36:13 - More Complete Forgery Arguments
1:40:52 - Partial Authenticity Arguments
1:46:46 - The 3 Arguments against Testimonium
1:47:45 - Book on the same topic by Dr. Fatoohi
1:48:32 - Main issue of accepting Testimonium
1:51:00 - Chasm b/w Christian Academia & Laity
1:52:35 - Spuriousity of the Gospels & Testimonium
1:53:56 - Closing Remarks & Wrapping Up
SubhanAllah ❤️💛💙
Amazing Discussion 👍🏻👌🏻
_May Allah ﷻ bless you both and reward you for your efforts._ 🤲🏻
Thank you so much Asadullah SAAiD!
@@BloggingTheology *You're Most Welcome Sir* 😊☺️
@@asadullahsaaid3794 🤭
Jazaka Allahu khayran brother for the adding the timestamps. I am sure many viewers would find them very helpful.
A
What an excellent presentation this is ! Dr Fatoohi is so clear and articulate. Brilliant.
Agreed. May Allah bless you and may He guide us all, amin.
indeed, I saw 3 or 4 of Fatoohi presentation and they are so intelligent. Also Dr. Atai, and others as well. May Allah bless you Russell and grant you light and all of us. He is the Light of Heaven and Earth. Amin
Thank you brother Russel for the nice interview you had with Paul ❤❤❤
Baraka Allahu Feek
Jakaza Allahu khayran brother. Thank you for sharing the details of your fascinating spiritual journey. It was a real joy to listen to.
@@louay.fatoohi Thank you Dr. Fatoohi, it took quite a lot of emotional energy from me....13 years of silence culminating in this interview with dear Paul. It was quite healing in a way. I had not come across you or your writings until now, and am delighted to discover you. :)
Dr. Lauoy fatoohi, thank you for hosting him again.
Thank you. I hope you enjoyed the video.
Uncles Paul and Louay, we love you both for the sake of Allah! May Allah grant you both good health and family peace. Aameen!
Jazaka Allahu khayran. I hope you enjoyed the video.
Another wonderful discussion. Thank you Sir Paul. May Allah bless you. 🇧🇩
Haven’t watched yet but this topic is much needed to gain a better understanding as to who Josephus was and what his view on Jesus was. I have no doubt this video will provide great clarity regarding this topic. Brother Paul understands his audience very well and is a master of engaging his audience by putting forth top notch content for his viewers! I salute you and your tireless work ethic my good sir! JazakAllahu Khair brother ☝🏼
**Update** Just finished watching and I’m just blown away by Dr. Fatoohi’s insight! Such amazing commentary backed with valid reasoning behind his assertions. The man carefully dissects these topics and absolutely crushes them leaving the viewer in awe of his work. Wonderful work gentlemen and may Allah (swt) reward you both for bringing this quality content for the general public to consider 👏🏼
Alhamdulillah
I love Dr. Fatoohi and his remarkable erudition. Another banger, Paul!
Thank you, brother. I hope you enjoyed the video.
@Jack Birdie Israel is a man - i.e. Jacob. Arabs are not physically descended from Jacob to begin with.
@Jack Birdie What the heck is your point? I'm an Arab and a Muslim.
The best channel on TH-cam hands down.
اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ وَسَلِّمْ عَلَىٰ سَیِّدِنَا مُحَمَّدٍ وَعَلَىٰ آلِهِ
Allāhumma ṣalli wa sallim ʿalā Sayyidinā Muḥammadin wa ʿalā ālihi
O Allah, send prayers and peace upon Our Master Muhammad and upon his Family.
Love your channel and your guests may Allah bless Dr Fatoohi that’s was so informative
I exhaust the like button on this channel . Thank you very much for this interesting discussion and May Allah bless you both.
I now understand why Dr Ali Ataie call this channel "the best channel on TH-cam". Great work.
Also looking forward to see Dr Ali Ataie again.
Wow, thanks!
What an amazing guest!
It's a good day whenever Dr. Fatoohi shows up on Blogging Theology.
May Allah bless you both ❤
Thank you for the kind words. Ramadan Mubarak.
Ramadan Mubarak to you as well, sir.
Thank you Paul for translating those crucial ideas from conclusions that are usually thrown around as sound bites into a clear and coherent synopsis for laymen like myself
Both this video as well as your discussion with professor James Tabor yesterday helped me better understand these scholarly positions by walking me through the evidence and thought process behind arriving at these conclusions
I find great value in the way you break things down for the rest of us
May Allah reward you
May the Blessing of Allah SWT be upon these two gentlemen.
Fantastic original insights from Dr Fatoohi! Keep it up 👍!
Very good presentations with visual PowerPoint/ Google Slide clearly. It’s very helpful. Ma'shaa'Allah ❤️
May Allah swt Bless Paul and His loved ones and his Guest n his loved ones. It’s amazing how much there is to learn from history. It’s such a specialized subject and people like JS knows that the average layman hardly knows the subject and so uses it to dishonestly ram the unsuspecting Muslim with it.
Brother Paul and Dr Fatouhi are so admirably providing Muslims the wherewithal to answer such “under the belt, lying under ur face” attacks against Islam. Somewhat like what Deedat did in his day. May Allah swt Bless all of them. Thank you.
good information and jazakAllahhukhair to Dr fatoohi and brother paul.
Jakazak Allahu khayran. Glad that you found the video useful.
Nice to see a Muslim explaining such a subject with some critical thinking 😊👍🏼
Welcome back to Dr. Louay. Ramadan Mubarak.
Ramadan Mubarak to you too, brother. I hope you enjoyed the video.
I am catching up on Blogging Theology material and @paul Williams you have done a great service by bringing educated scholars. Jazakallah
Alhamdulillah
Always love following your channel that provides more informations that useful for us. Improving our knowledges and understanding about many things.
I heard about Josephus a lot and one of the geo-political analysts I follow (Christian Palestinian) mentions him a lot. Thanks you for bringing brother Fatoohi and giving us the clearest explanations of who this historical figure is.
May Allah Accept your works, and make it a means of acceptance and Guidance for the Ummah!
Thankyou so much Paul for all the preparation you go through to provide valuable informative knowledge for you veiwers.
I greatly appreciate your work
God Bless you
❤ From Australia
Some amazing videos recently as usual maashaAllah
This is great, Paul. Salam from Penang. Ramadan Mubarak
Dear brother Paul Allah bless you you are doing great work on this planet and we love
Welcome back Dr Fatoohi. Always enjoy your explanations, so many new things I learn and get understanding about history, Quran etc. Jazakallah khayr to you and also to Br.Paul for having you in Blogging Theology.
Ramadan Mubarak
Jazaka Allahu khayran. Ramadan Mubarak.
Thank you both for this excellent presentation!
Very informative!
Thank you Sir. Love your work both of you ❤️
One of my favourite guest on BT Alhamdulillah JZK to both scholarly brothers ❄️💙
Jazaka Allahu khayran. I hope you enjoyed the video.
@@louay.fatoohi Yes I did indeed Sir..JZK 😊 ❄️💙
Very informative and interesting discussion. Thanks for sharing it here. 👍
Subhan'Allah ! I do think the brother did a fantastic job presenting all the arguments, however he did miss out on a few points (due to the time constraints perhaps):
1. In the sixteenth century "Isaac Vossius" (Dutch scholar and manuscript collector) had a manuscript of the text of Josephus in which there was not a word about Jesus.
2. It is not quoted by "Photius" (patriarch of Constantinople - 9th century) either. Though he has 3 articles concerning Josephus; and he clearly states that this historian has not taken the least notice of Christ. This clearly means that there were many copies of the "Antiquities" around that didn't have the TF passage.
3. Just to add to the "tribe" being referred to as Christians, we clearly see Josephus using the word "tribe" as ethnicity in various parts of his book, but never once as religion. While Eusebius was the first historian to ever use the word tribe to refer to Christians. Before him not a single church father or christian historian or apologists referred to Christians as "tribe".
Lets go new Louay Fatoohi dialogue!! 💯💯
Thank you. I hope you enjoyed the video.
@@louay.fatoohi love your presentations!
Thank you both for your efforts ❤ but is very long couldn’t finish it. I hope it’s in segments .
Thank you Paul and Dr. Fatoohi. Please bring back Dr. Ali Ataie.
May Almighty Allah Reward Both of you in this Life and in the Hereafter.
Ameen
00:00:00 - 01:00:00
Dr. Louay Fatoohi discusses the authenticity of Flavius Josephus' alleged testimony on Jesus in the "testimonium flavianum" passage. He explains that the passage is heavily corrupted and interpolated by later Christian scribes, according to nearly all modern scholars. Dr. Fatoohi argues that the passage is a complete forgery, and he provides evidence to support this view, including the lack of knowledge of the passage by many Christian writers who quoted Josephus, and the fact that Eusebius, who is known to have changed quotes and even made things up, introduced the passage. He also compares the passage to the Trinity verse in the New Testament, which is a forged text that was inserted into the Bible and was not quoted by early Church fathers.
01:00:00 - 01:55:00
Dr. Louay Fatoohi provides a historical and Islamic critique of Josephus' alleged testimony on Jesus. He argues that the language used in the passage is heavily influenced by Christian terminology, implying that it has been modified by Church historians over the years. Fatoohi also points out that the supposed "neutral" language used to describe Jesus cannot be attributed to Josephus, as he only speaks of individuals in terms of their gender and not in a subjective manner. The video delves into various arguments for and against the authenticity of the testimonium, with Fatoohi ultimately concluding that it is a complete forgery, and emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and methodology in approaching sources related to religious subjects.
Great as always Paul!
Remarkable work on the part of both of you. Love you guys❤
Wonderful, can't even start explaining how much I appreciate you both gentlemen. Amaizing.
So, Josephus is not reliable and I was very enthusiastic about his chapter with Alexander the Great....
I am realy interested in reading Dr. Fatoohi's book about prophet Joseph/Yusuf .
Jazakumullahu khairan !
Thanks for the great presentation
👌 I will come back and listen to this. It should be very interesting to know some reliable history if any about Jesus and Mary may peace be upon them.
I just had to pause 20 seconds in to completely agree with “Excellent outstanding channel” 😊 I listen to at least 3 episodes a day 😂
Wow, thank you!
Jazakumullah khayran brothers
this is an excellent video - as always.
جزاک اللہ خیرا
FYI, Josephus was a Jewish historian of Rome - not Muslim or Arab.
JazakALLAHukhairan
That's a lot of books behind both of you👍
It will be nice and quite interesting if you add to the argumentation, the historicity of Jesus, the few hints to Jesus by Lucian the Syrian, or known in some references as Lucian of Samosata ( Lucian is a Hellenized Syrian satirist, rhetorician and pamphleteer) who lived between 125-200 (last records of mentioning him was about 180).
Anyone listening to Dr. Fatoohi's very one-sided historical presentation should also read William Whiston's dissertation in the Appendix to his 'Works of Josephus'. In the appendix, Whiston provides a comprehensive analysis not just of the references to Jesus Christ but also to James the Just and John the Baptist. In the dissertation, Whiston lists evidence of the ancient citations of the testimonies of Josephus (regarding John the Baptist, Jesus and James) from his own time until the fifteenth century.
Even if one dismisses the words, 'he was the Christ' as found in book XVIll, there is enough detail in Josephus' 'Antiquities' to know that he was giving an honest and accurate account of events that took place in Judea and in the Roman territories.
In general, the histories of Josephus support the Biblical narrative, and contribute helpfully to our understanding of what happened in Judea after the Romans occupied the land.
More.of him pls
insha'Allah
Josephus as a Jewish historian is one of controversy. Some argu that he could not have existed at the time of Jesus or the apostles.
Also even the representation of Josephus, as resembling a modern day Jewish person, is wrong based on his skull.
10:21 - 11:46 Paul deferred and learnt / spent time with the Apostles after his vision with Jesus. When he was unsure about something later he went back to the apostles in Acts 15. Christianity was a grassroots movement it was not just 12 people who made some stuff up in a vacuum
In Paul's letter to the Galatians he says that he did NOT receive the Gospel from any man nor did anyone teach it to him. Instead it was a direct revelation from Jesus. And that after he received his "call" from God, he did not go to anyone for advice, nor did he go to Jerusalem to consult with the Apostles, but went at once to ARABIA, then back to Damascus. He does not say how long he stayed in Arabia, only that three years later he went to Jerusalem to meet with Peter and James. (Galatians 1:11-19). Then he began his missionary work in what is now Turkey. According to what he told the Galatians he returned to Jerusalem some fourteen years later because God told him to (2:1-2) but according to Acts 15 the reason he and Barnabas went to Jerusalem was to settle a controversy regarding whether Gentile converts were to follow the Torah. It was decided at that meeting they did not have to. Paul resumed his traveling and preaching. However, some time later (Acts 21) Paul found himself being questioned by the Jerusalem elders who were very concerned about rumors that he was telling Jews they didn't have to follow the Torah either. If you read what Paul says about the Torah in Galatians it is not hard to figure out why and how these rumors started. He may have claimed to be preaching only to Gentiles but there is no denying that he left himself wide open to these charges. Paul was very much a freelancer who did not hesitate to put down the Jerusalem mother church when it suited his purposes: "Don't listen to anyone else, not even them, listen to me." Acts was written some time after Paul's letters and is an attempt to smooth over the differences he had with the apostles. But if you read Paul's letters for yourself you will see very little love lost between him and them. He can be quite harsh on occasion and did not tolerate anyone disagreeing with him. The now-extinct Ebionite Christian sect did not consider Paul to be an apostle of God; and there are some modern Christian groups who likewise reject him.
السلام عليكم
Do you have sort of Christianity / Bible classes series from Islamic viewpoint?
Hi thank you so much literally watchin this during iftaar!!!
looking to purchase the books of josephus
question though about the Testimonium Flavianum
even though he says jesus is a man ( brilliant)
However it does also say according to him
“He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life”
How would you guys look at this particular portion incase this was to be used as an argument??
That would be interesting to know!!!
Thats Paul for opening these doors
Brother Paul I want to ask what name was used for Jesus peace and blessings be upon him was used in the Josephus telling.
the fact that the chronology of TF in the book of josephus is not as per christian chronology adds more evidence of the view of majority of scholars that there was an original TF penned by josephus later corrupted by chirstian scribe most likely revised or modified by eusebius.
من يتبرع بترجمة فيديوهات السيد يول ويليامز إلى العربية وأجره على الله
1:39:55 the context in which the passage about Jesus in Josephus, between , that alone, shows it is out of place, take the 2 account before and the 2 account after the Jesus' passage, take them in mind and then read that little page about Jesus, it seems out of place, incomplete as a whole, not only the interpolation, but the whole passage, its placement between such events make no sense, plus the James who was brother of Christ so obvious.. I am surprised that they try to cling to partial authenticity.. Not to mention that Early christian writers did not jump on it till a long time!.. Many red flags, had this been in Islamic sources, the whole book would be weak even by Muslim, let alone non muslim scholarship.
Assalamu Alaykum,
Br. Paul, I would like to buy one or two Bibles for Dawah. Could you please suggest the best 3 English Bibles that I should own?
Non. All are corrupted
He that diges the ditch shall bury in it.
His name was Yosef ben Mattityahu. Yosef in Latiin was the Josephus, the Flavius is Vespasian.s family name. He was a slave owned by Vespasian. The reason there has not been more interest in this is that Christians are doubtful of it. for this reason: Why, if people who loved the truth as he says would follow Him, would he, himself not have become a Christian?
Assalamu Aleykum. I would like to argue against the point made by Dr Louay Fatoohi on the minute 1:13.
Dr Looay says that the claim: "Jesus won over many Jews and many Greeks" is outright wrong.
My argument against that statement for the purpose of staying objective even as A Muslim arguing against Christianity is:
1- From the Quran, Surat Assaff 61:14: "O believers! Be the helpers of Allah, just as Isa (Jesus) the son of Maryam said to his disciples: "Who will be my helper in the cause of Allah?" And the disciples responded: "We will be your helpers in the cause of Allah." Then a faction from the children of Israel believed in him (Isa) and another faction disbelieved. We aided the believers against their enemies, so they became dominant/apparant".
So this Aya clearly stating that a faction of the Jews believed in Jesus and another Faction disbelieved. And Allah aided the Jews who believed in him to become apparent/Dominant over the Faction that disbelieved. The best interpretation here would be that a bigger number of the Jews believed in Jesus.
2- Josephus was writing in early 90's AD. (I am not arguing that he wrote that Testimony about Jesus. I am just arguing that your earlier arguments were very strong but not this one). That's more than 40 years after Paul started actively seaking to convert Greeks to his version of the Gospel. Nevertheless he was calling the Greeks to believe in Jesus. And from the Acts of the Apostles we can confidently affirm that he was very successful in his mission. Establishing churches in many cities. Even bringing with him a lot of donations from his followers to Jerusalem to boast his success to James and the other 11 disciples. It's the momentum realised by Paul that made his version of Christianity, with the support of powerful people in the Roman Empire dominate the authentic Jewish movement of the 12 disciples. Who were expelled from Judea after the destruction of the Temple. Likely many of them died defending it as they were a bigger threat to Roman authority than the Jews who didn't believe in Jesus.
Allah knows best.
The word ظ ه ر does not denote quantity. And neither does the word "dominant" -- if you really want to translate into that.
Jesus saved from the crucifixion and the subsequent destruction of the temple as God's punishment (Quran 17:7) were among the signs that made the truth "apparent".
@@madyasiwi
Allaha says in 61:14:
1- The jews were divided into 2 factions.
2- Allah supported the Faction that believed in Eassa PBUH
3- By consequence the faction that Believed became Apparent ظاهرين over those who didn't.
The Aya doesn't say "The truth became apparent" as you say. It says the faction of the Jews who believed became apparent over those who didn't.
I don't see how the destruction of the temple makes the Truth Apparent as both factions worshipped in the Temple and it was a sacred masjid for both of them.
I also don't see how Allah saving Eassa PBUH from the cross makes the truth Apparent as everybody thought he was indeed crucified as it says in the Quran: "It was made to appear to them" (The Jews thought that they crucified him).
Faction A became apparent ظاهرين over Faction B.
If it's not in number and popularity than what?
_"I don't see how the destruction of the temple makes the Truth Apparent as both factions worshipped in the Temple and it was a sacred masjid for both of them."_
@@adamdilem941 according to Christians sources, Jesus warned about the corruption done by the religious authority at the temple and prophesied it's destruction. This is inline with Quran 17:7 I referenced above.
_"I also don't see how Allah saving Eassa PBUH from the cross makes the truth Apparent as everybody thought he was indeed crucified as it says in the Quran: "It was made to appear to them" (The Jews thought that they crucified him). "_
@@adamdilem941 it made the truth apparent to his followers/the _hawariyyun_ . His followers were Jews, and no Jews believe a messiah can die on the cross or become a curse.
_"Faction A became apparent ظاهرين over Faction B._
_If it's not in number and popularity than what?"_
In the truthfulness of their faith.
@@madyasiwi
You have replied but you haven't made any argument.
stating what the Hawaryeen believe does not constitute an argument.
Please read again my argument and read your response. You're not making any sense.
When can you explain sumer mesopotamia and Kemet
❤️❤️❤️🌹🌹🌹
Who is first mother Mary first
OR
Jesus God first
josephus calling jesus as a wise man indicates he was a nazarene or believer of jesus. No christian forger would want to call jesus a wise man.
An excellent presentation; unfortunately, it almost has no "Islamic Critique" ingredient, as the title mentioned.
I think It is not appropriate for a prophet to say that he did not succeed. Because success comes from Allah and prophets only fulfill their duty of conveying the message.
Paul I want to share my thoughts with you if mary mother of Jesus then who created Mary if Jesus was God then why he born like human why he killed by humans if Mary mother of Jesus then who is Mary husband who is father of Jesus
Christians believe that God incarnate into Jesus to come close to humans. Jesus died for the sin of the believers in him. Jesus human father doesn't matter. Some believe he has human father and some don't. It's sounds crazy but that's what they believe.
Loo I or Lew Ay is how you pronounce his name, not Louis.. just FYI 😄
Excellent
🙏☮️💟✝️⚔️🗡️
Enjoy the guest 👏🏼 and subject…
I wish you two would discuss the book 📖
“James, the Brother of Jesus” by Robert Eisenman.
I believe all 3 Abrahamic religions were forever corrupted by Herodians.
How would David, Melchizedek, or Phineas treat the backsliding we all have witnessed? It’s getting worse gentlemen and I respect everyone’s opinion…within reason. 😎
Paul and Louay…
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I respect your sincerity and skills at communicating a view of Jesus, which is not popular among my dissimulated Christian brothers & sisters.
Likewise, Robert Eisenman’s research intrigues me as well…unfortunately I believe Dr. Eisenman has been disrespected and disregarded by Jewish, Christian & Muslim believers (I pray Robert’s health is well, we’re all getting older).
I believe…
All of us have more in common than we know or could know, given that man is prone to dissimulation.
A man so influential in getting the Dead Sea Scrolls into the public view, Dr. Eisenman deserves respect and I’d love your analysis of his extensive research and many books.
Whats drives my moral compass so crazy it two things
How does the current monarch continue to walk with consciousness when proffesors under there rule expose theyre very understanding/ compass of life and spirituality
and secondly how do priests live knowing they are teaching forgeries to their people??
so bewildering
Here is two ex-Christians talking!!!
Dear brother, Paul. Are you wearing Batik shirt in the video?
❤
"the many of the greeks part" in the testimonium is kind of sketchy. Is the author saying Jesus converted them or was this the result of his apostles converting the gentiles years later? not sure if the rest of the book speaks on this.
If it the former, then it is evidence of it being clear lie.
Jesus' followers only started converting the gentiles years after. Somehow, even though Jesus had told them to preach to all nations ( luke 24:47) years earlier. Somehow , they forgot about this for a very long time. When Cornelius eventually converted, Peter didn't say "I did so because Jesus had told us it was cool way back when". He tried to explain his vision and we see that christians say finally the Gentiles are saved. SO that means they had not been preaching to all nations. If Jesus had given them the green light ...why weren't they preaching to all nations. The actions put in doubt the very authenticity of verses like Luke 24:47 and/or acts 10 and 11.
If jesus told his followers to preach to all, they would have started right away and if someone would ask...they would not say "because i saw a dream od unclean meant" ....they would just say Jesus told us we could.
Only a tiny minority believe Josephus is writing? Lie
The fact is the MaN mentions
Paul you need to stop doing this to our poor Christian friends, first Dr Ali then Dr Louay, thats total destruction really.
Donald M. Craig points to ancient sources regarding a history of Abraham from India:
…Flavius Josephus …(in the) Antiquities of the Jews … quotes Aristotle (384 b.c.e.-322 b.c.e.) as saying that Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers and are known as the Calani. Clearchus of Soli was a student in Aristotle’s school. In his book, De Somno, he elaborates on the story of how Aristotle discovered this information, but the basic concept remained the same.
Megasthenes was an ambassador of Seleucus I of Syria to India, before the latter’s death in 288 b.c.e. Megasthenes wrote that the Jews were an Indian tribe or sect called Kalani. Except for the spelling he agreed with Aristotle and Clearchus. Higgins also claims that Ur of the Chaldees, the home of Abraham mentioned in the Bible, was actually Ur of the Chaldeans. “Chaldean,” he continues, is actually “Kaul-Deva” or the Holy Kauls, a Brahmanical caste of India. He writes that the tribe of the Brahmin was expelled from or left India and settled in Goshen in Egypt. -
Part I by Anonymousfor Prajapati
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It amazes me how biased wrong facts are forwarded here. Josephus writings where originally written in Greek and the original Greek versions both have the Jesus narratives as detailed accounts of Jesus half brother " James the just". One must know that Jesus half brother was a well known figure in Jerusalem of those days, as he spend a lot of time in the temple. During Jesus lifetime he had difficulty accepting that the person he grew up with could be "the messiah", but after Jesus resurrection James became a bold follower of Jesus, proclaiming that Jesus was the Messiah and his resurrection. James could have never made this up, would have never made it up.
Jesus crucifixion, death and resurrection was a huge event in Jerusalem of those days and the grave of Jesus, belonging to a rich member of the Sanhedrin, was well known to everyone. Everyone could visit the grave himself and everyone could ask Mary, the mother of Jesus or the remaining disciples or James himself. So it was a well established fact at that time that Jesus had resurrected from the grave and was seen by many. That lead many Jews at that time to follow Christ but of course the majority nevertheless didn't accept Jesus as the messiah because Jews expected the Messiah to free them from oppression from the Romans. So, Josephus was writing down what clearly happened in the Jerusalem of those days. The original Greek manuscripts are very clear on this and the texts are definitely not changed. Maybe you better research it again....
W
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Bro how ignorant can you all be? Islam came 600 YEARS after Jesus. 600 YEARS. By the way YOUR QURAN says the Bible Is TRUTH. NOT CORRUPTED. So explain why you reject the quran by rejecting the bible. The bible says that Jesus IS GOD IN HUMAN FORM AND I HAVE THE VERSES TO PROVE IT. So dont start your BS lies and excuses. Phillippians 2:5-7. BOOM.
Very estonished the real history about the life of Hazrat Jesus you lost and any one do not research thier life history and where they migrate after cruccifiction safe and sond migrate to any where .I read the Dr Hanemanns life history .He writes in his books that his father was a big priest of a tribe of followers of Jesusasw and he migrate fom Rome to Australia .Hanemann said i belonged a sSemoul groupof followers of jesus .his father know all the history life of jesus where they migrate .This was the main reason he believed on the jesus death in kashmir .then he researched the Holy Quran and got the regular education from the arabic university in 19 years age he rememberd the holy Quran by heart and accepted the islam he love Hazrat Mohammad saw .he educated in nine language and died in 1835 .and burried in Merri tarri grave .his prayer of funerial also say by some muslims .you can read his books reality of truthfully about jesus .
Jesus is buried at Rozabal Shrine, Kashmir.
Please do a video on this.
He was saved by god, how could he be buried?
Stop talking so much and let Louay
Luke was a contemporary of Jesus. He was a historian. His biography would be reliable.
Luke 1:3 I resolved also, because I HAVE TRACED ALL THINGS FROM THE START WITH ACCURACY, to write them to you in logical order, most excellent The·ophʹi·lus, 4 so that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally.