This is a great subject …and thank you Phil! And Geoffrey. Yes what about Gallipoli??? The excoriation of a whole generation of young Australian men. And - if not for Curtin (our Australian PM) and the pivot to the USA - Australia would have been swiftly sacrificed to Japan in WW2. Curtin got agreement from Churchill that Curtin would retain ultimate command of Australian troops. Curtin then warned Churchill to buttress Singapore and Churchill ignored him so Singapore fell. Curtin demanded the return of his men from the Middle East, Churchill ignored him. We had to deploy the home guard (who did brilliantly alongside PNG troops). Curtin died just before the end of WW2 and all around him felt the stress of trying to keep Aussie troops alive and Australia free, and fighting off Churchill, killed him. However for Britain, I think as you and Geoffrey say, maybe in the depths of 1940 because the world was mad, Churchill was very much the right man for the moment.
Such a well deserved topic. My nana always said “each man puts his pants on one leg at a time “. We should always remember this fact when we place famous people on a pedestal. Churchill was a true statesman.
Thank you Andrew and Phil for wonderful podcasts. You are a both a real pleasure to listen to and the topics you choose are so interesting, the issues are well presented and your comments are so well informed and insightful. Your podcasts have provided me with much food for thought and have really inspired me to further reading. Thanks again
This is not just a great podcast regarding Churchill, who seems to attract different points of view, damning or defended; but also is a great podcast that emphasises "the craft of the historian" - research, subject area selection, evidence, debates, interpretation, the skill of writing, and even rhetoric. Anyone who is an historian, or would-be historian, is recommended to view this podcast...
Im 61 and upon reflection I guess I grew up with awareness principally of 'the Churchill cult' point of view. I was shocked when I first heard extreme criticism of him. This interview presents a far more useful and nuanced analysis of the pros and cons of the person, his skills, his actions, his achievements and his failings. Fascinating and useful. Having spent my life immersed in the medieval world, I am finding this podcast very useful to learn more about modern & contemporary history.
My goodness as I keep listening to your podcasts my pile of books to read keeps growing and growing! I wish you all had gone into whether, in Wheatcroft's opinion, Churchill contributed to the inevitability of a WW 2 or not. Guess I will have to buy the book, right? I also couldn't help thinking about the comparison of Churchill to Trump--people in this part of the US, where I live, think he was a great President because of the economy and lack of war with Russia and because of his so-called "truth telling". And they ignore evidence that he is a deeply troubled, flawed man who brought our country, continues to bring it, to the edge of chaos. But perhaps, given what you three said about history, I am the one who is so deeply in the moment with Trump that I can't see him clearly. No, sorry, I really can't go there yet ;)
Some people here make a Boris Johnson comparison too - a very flawed leader who nevertheless has a moment of greatness in him, in Johnson's case helping Ukraine.
@@philmcraig and yet here we are still, Russia still bombardiing Ukraine, the outcome of this war still uncertain. And agitations from the US that perhaps it’s time to wind the war down. As happened in Afghanistan. And, farther back, with Vietnam, I’m no war historian but I’d be interested in a podcast on the politics of withdrawal, the politics of appeasement, what happens in a global world that is post-colonial but, still, in essence, “colonial”?
As an american I respect Winston Churchill . He knew the Germans were not going to stop until the world was under Nazi rule . God bless him yes he had flaws but thank god he was in charge & not Neville Chamberlain
Your opening of this made me laugh and made me think who else could have lead a war against a maniacal narcissistic fascist leader other than a Bombastic British drunk 😂
May I just point out, ‘England’ did not stand alone in 1940! Last time I looked, the Scots, Welsh and N. Irish were there too. Just remember the soldiers of the 51st Highland Division, abandoned at St Valery…
I can recognise Churchill, but I can’t like him. He is fascinating tho. Couldn’t paint! However much he tried. Interesting chat. Yes we need more myth busting truth hunters like this for sure.
Churchill felt a degree of sympathy for Edward, and supported him. In the end, he did see Edward as a risk to Britain, and happily saw him as far from British shores as possible.
Thank you from Australia. I'm so glad Churchill is being exposed for the monster he was. Australia has immortalised him with Anzac Day, April 25, Gallipoli
Churchill was named the greatest Englishman, that’s how far have the public’s perceptions been manipulated! Happily l didn’t vote for him or anyone else.
This is a great subject …and thank you Phil! And Geoffrey. Yes what about Gallipoli??? The excoriation of a whole generation of young Australian men. And - if not for Curtin (our Australian PM) and the pivot to the USA - Australia would have been swiftly sacrificed to Japan in WW2. Curtin got agreement from Churchill that Curtin would retain ultimate command of Australian troops. Curtin then warned Churchill to buttress Singapore and Churchill ignored him so Singapore fell. Curtin demanded the return of his men from the Middle East, Churchill ignored him. We had to deploy the home guard (who did brilliantly alongside PNG troops). Curtin died just before the end of WW2 and all around him felt the stress of trying to keep Aussie troops alive and Australia free, and fighting off Churchill, killed him. However for Britain, I think as you and Geoffrey say, maybe in the depths of 1940 because the world was mad, Churchill was very much the right man for the moment.
Bloody fantastic book. I've read it several times now, and it's revealed something new to me every time
Absolutely brilliant TH-cam channel!
Every video is so interesting 😊😊
Thanks so much we love doing it so please subscribe and spread the word if you can!
Your shows are Always Fascinating! Thank you.
Thanks so much Shaun 😊
Such a well deserved topic. My nana always said “each man puts his pants on one leg at a time “. We should always remember this fact when we place famous people on a pedestal. Churchill was a true statesman.
Great podcast! But would like a special on Where Does Andrew Lownie Get His Energy: author, literary agent, father, husband? Phew! Very impressive.
Thanks for your support. We love exploring new subjects and the feedback we receive.
Thank you Andrew and Phil for wonderful podcasts. You are a both a real pleasure to listen to and the topics you choose are so interesting, the issues are well presented and your comments are so well informed and insightful. Your podcasts have provided me with much food for thought and have really inspired me to further reading. Thanks again
Thanks so, much for your support for the podcasts.
This is not just a great podcast regarding Churchill, who seems to attract different points of view, damning or defended; but also is a great podcast that emphasises "the craft of the historian" - research, subject area selection, evidence, debates, interpretation, the skill of writing, and even rhetoric. Anyone who is an historian, or would-be historian, is recommended to view this podcast...
That's so kind of you Ian, Thanks
Such a fair and interesting discussion. As always, thank you.
Winston Churchill has long been one of my favorite historical characters because he is so flawed. God bless and keep you Sir Winston 🎉🎉🎉
Quite right - the man in full is always worth knowing.
Im 61 and upon reflection I guess I grew up with awareness principally of 'the Churchill cult' point of view. I was shocked when I first heard extreme criticism of him. This interview presents a far more useful and nuanced analysis of the pros and cons of the person, his skills, his actions, his achievements and his failings. Fascinating and useful. Having spent my life immersed in the medieval world, I am finding this podcast very useful to learn more about modern & contemporary history.
That's exactly what we're trying to do!
@Forthleft2 here, good to see more of these quality historical formats appearing, especially when they aren't American.
Thanks so much Tim
I listened to this on Spotify. As an Australian I have mixed thoughts about Churchill.
Yes the shadow of Gallipoli never left him.
My goodness as I keep listening to your podcasts my pile of books to read keeps growing and growing! I wish you all had gone into whether, in Wheatcroft's opinion, Churchill contributed to the inevitability of a WW 2 or not. Guess I will have to buy the book, right? I also couldn't help thinking about the comparison of Churchill to Trump--people in this part of the US, where I live, think he was a great President because of the economy and lack of war with Russia and because of his so-called "truth telling". And they ignore evidence that he is a deeply troubled, flawed man who brought our country, continues to bring it, to the edge of chaos. But perhaps, given what you three said about history, I am the one who is so deeply in the moment with Trump that I can't see him clearly. No, sorry, I really can't go there yet ;)
Some people here make a Boris Johnson comparison too - a very flawed leader who nevertheless has a moment of greatness in him, in Johnson's case helping Ukraine.
@@philmcraig and yet here we are still, Russia still bombardiing Ukraine, the outcome of this war still uncertain. And agitations from the US that perhaps it’s time to wind the war down. As happened in Afghanistan. And, farther back, with Vietnam, I’m no war historian but I’d be interested in a podcast on the politics of withdrawal, the politics of appeasement, what happens in a global world that is post-colonial but, still, in essence, “colonial”?
San Francisco here--complete opposite opinion about Trump
Would you consider an episode on Clementine Churchill?
Yes! Interesting idea 😊
England did not "stand alone" in 1940. Calls himself an historian...
True it wasn’t just England - it was Britain and the Empire but during the critical months there wasn’t much helping coming from overseas.
Don’t worry about asking for subscriptions… it’s asking for likes before we have heard anything!!! But yes you do have to ask / remind
As an american I respect Winston Churchill . He knew the Germans were not going to stop until the world was under Nazi rule . God bless him yes he had flaws but thank god he was in charge & not Neville Chamberlain
Winston was flawed but he was a strong leader when the chips were very down.
Your opening of this made me laugh and made me think who else could have lead a war against a maniacal narcissistic fascist leader other than a Bombastic British drunk 😂
Thanks Jane!
May I just point out, ‘England’ did not stand alone in 1940! Last time I looked, the Scots, Welsh and N. Irish were there too. Just remember the soldiers of the 51st Highland Division, abandoned at St Valery…
Yes you’re absolutely right about that Elaine - and the empire too!
I saw the Churchill movie and some documentaries...hadn't known he was part American. Did he know about Mountbatten?
Of course he did. Churchill WAS a fascist. His outwardly deeds were a cover.
I bought a book.
I can recognise Churchill, but I can’t like him. He is fascinating tho. Couldn’t paint! However much he tried. Interesting chat. Yes we need more myth busting truth hunters like this for sure.
how did you guys feel about the portrayal of him on the Crown? i.e. his relationship over the years with the queen? And his hatred of Edward VIII?
I liked it - but he was at one point a big supporter of Edward
Churchill felt a degree of sympathy for Edward, and supported him. In the end, he did see Edward as a risk to Britain, and happily saw him as far from British shores as possible.
Wasn't Gallipoli undertaken to help lay the ground for The Balfour Declaration, The Mandate for Palestine and the state of Israel?
Thank you from Australia. I'm so glad Churchill is being exposed for the monster he was. Australia has immortalised him with Anzac Day, April 25, Gallipoli
Algorithm bump.
Churchill was named the greatest Englishman, that’s how far have the public’s perceptions been manipulated! Happily l didn’t vote for him or anyone else.